To me, Joy's name seems like a double entendre in two separate languages: Its default English meaning, and what it sounds like in Cantonese, 災 (disaster). She embodies the potential for both.
I thought the character Joy has the most obvious representation about depression, so i was surprised that many people called Joy pretentious.. Thx for bringing that up in this video
it's super obvious to anyone who's been there. i was shook by how accurately the movie built up to and captured that moment when you feel like everything is ruined forever. no movie has ever gotten in my head like that before. and going by the conversation joy and evelyn had as rocks, that's exactly what they were going for. just trying to share that mental space with someone who needs to know they're not the only one
I suspect many people looked at Joy's life and thought "My life is worst than yours, what do you have to be depressed about". Don't expect much sympathy from anyone dealing with something worse than you.
As someone who has depression, I didn't see that at all. I thought she was being selfish and was going to cut her mom out of her life because she didn't want to sacrifice anything for anyone else just because they were flawed and didn't understand her and had other things to worry about but still loved her. Even with the interpretation, I still don't see it.
I think the way the movie decides to answer the self harm aspect is by showing you can't force someone into staying with us. Rather what you can do, is not give up on them. Cuz we see Evelyn let her go when Joy really starts resisting. Evelyn realises that you can't force someone into things being fine. You can't force your child into not being suicidal. But you can open your arms and show you are there for them. And most importantly, never give up on them. Exactly how Evelyn did at the end. What a beautiful film!
Wow...this is exactly it. I was so much like Joy as a teen and what you describe Evelyn doing at the end is what I now realise my mother did for me all those years ago, despite her own struggles with trauma and mental health
It took me a second viewing to notice, but very importantly, Joy is the one to reach out to be pulled back out of the bagel at the last second. She made the decision to accept her family's love and help.
"I will still choose to do laundry and taxes with you in my next life" The most romantic line I've never heard :'))))) Cried in the cinema because of this
Hell yeah. It's easy to have a good time in a party or in a "romantic" setting, like a fancy dinner. Real love is when there ain't nobody else you'd rather go through the struggle and grind with, sharing the highest triumphs and supporting one another through the worst lows, and keeping that passion even through the most mundane things (like laundry and taxes).
When I was in the theater, i interpreted it another way - I rather be together in the worst case scenario than to not have you at all - again a suicide reference
I cried when I saw that line too. And you know (very likely) he means it too cos there was a version of him that did just that. Dr Strange MoM's line "I love you in all the universes" feels more poignant in this movie than its own, even if it's not literally true (there's that hotdog hands one where she fell in low with Deidre).
My 25 yr old son and I watched this film together. He suffers from depression and anxiety. I've heard him say those words" I'm tired Dad" too many times. Thank you for this.
As someone who struggles with depression, I instantly picked up on her depressed state and allusions to self-harm. The line, “I’m tired” is something I say when I’m caving into my intrusive thoughts. It’s easy to get sucked into the bagel. The scene where her family is trying to pull her out of the bagel could represent her support system choosing to help her through her difficult time.
@@stellviahohenheim amen brother. Nail>head. That said, I know this from 2 decades of my life, but I finally broke the loop a couple years ago, I think for good even, or at least without being overwhelmed. I won't change minds in a two sentence post, but at least keep in mind one self affirming truth: where there is life there really is hope!¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Also important to note I think: When Evelyn a rejects despair and death, she also rejects isolationism. She finds meaning in connections, and when she saves Joy, she is unable to do it alone. It's only through the effort of everyone, the community, that she is literally and metaphorically saved. I think that's an incredibly important point for western audiences especially.
Wow, that's such a cool idea that I never whould have thought of. It's so refreshing to see some collectivism in cinema and actually having it done well.
the movie goes through the complex effort to set up little bits of characters for Joy's final wall of minions so that Evelyn can defeat them by recognizing their emotional needs. Her community goes from being alienating to allies.
I do remember thinking that whilst I was watching this in the cinema a few months ago. Thank you for reminding me and for highlighting it as another theme for viewers to look out for 😊
Her depression was the first thing that stood out to me. I didn't know people were calling her pretentious. I thought it was pretty obvious how bogged down she was ("I'm tired." The whole disappearing into the bagel thing.) Thanks so much for addressing it!
Ikrrr, I thought the message was clear that she was very depressed and was blinded to the positive side of life, the side that made it worth living. But she finally saw that positive side when Joy finally hugged her mother and cherished that moment
I think it has to do with the way she was dressed up as a "villain" and people seem to not hear what she was saying. Or also that the "real" Joy in the movie seems so young adult "default" that nobody thought she would be feeling hollow inside.
prob because after she says she is tired, evelyn calls her out that she only calls or makes contact whne she needs something (material, not emotional connection which we know ALL human beings crave for) so she also has to be better and stop some of the teenage stuff and actualyl take responsibility. IMO
@@berniasd012 i still see no wrong on joy part. with a mother like evelyn, who would ever go visit? she also said that her mom was always busy at the beginning of the movie anyway, so what's the point of visiting when her mom doesn't even have time for her? i don't understand the logic of the ones who are criticizing joy
For people who don’t suffer from severe depression, hearing the utterance, “I’m tired” is taken at face value but for those who are really in it, it’s the most diplomatic, succinct, protective way of say that that they’re dying. To conclude your video in such a manner tying the film’s premise to how society should be was well appreciated.
I sat there crying with my boyfriend in the theatre, we picked the movie on a whim. Throughout the movie, I called out jokingly how much the main character looks so much like my mom, acts so much like her, dressed like her, and it gave me this dread when I realized her response to Joy being gay. It reminded me of when I came out to my mom. It reminded me of her relationship with my sister and about how busy immigrant families are. Too busy to heal, too busy to acknowledge. There's a lot to dig into, but damn did I cry. Definitely need to rewatch.
“Too busy to heal, too busy to acknowledge” It’s funny cause I love my family so much but sometimes there’s always this pang in my heart but maybe it’s because of that.
The first crying point in the film for me was when they said Jobu Tupaki was star student pushed so hard by Evelyn that she broke. As an Asian American immigrant daughter, it was such a perfect and relatable analogy for how some Asian moms push their kids for "their sake and future" in good faith while destroying their children's mental health, dreams and life. I was also a nihlist, pessimist, depressed and attempted suicide but came to my own positive nihilism like this film did. Nothing matters and everything matters. You give it meaning. Under all the extravagant outfits/designs and the dizzying plot/multiverses, the bones of the story symbolized generational trauma, albeit dramatized.
Well said! Another aspect of the film that embodies positive nihilism is Waymond, especially his speech about how he fights by believing in hope and showing kindness. There are so many things we can't control but we can choose to be kind
@@pigeon5935 a lot of lose? Dude they would've lost more had they stay. They got nothing to lose, but gains when they move here. They just choose not to take responsibility for their actions and rely 100% on the kids. They sacrifice nothing and force their kids to sacrifice for them. Btw my parents are also immigrants.
@@Dave_of_Mordor you don't know that. Those that immigrated seeking protection or asylum, sure, but what about those that legit abandoned a better life to give their children (at least what they believed/perceived to be) a "head start"?
A colleague of mine was discussing the film with me and said she couldn't quite understand Joy's viewpoint. While it definitely is nihilistic, your analysis is what I came to after watching it. Joy doesn't really believe that everything is meaningless and life is just misery, but more that she's depressed as hell. She wants her mother to accept her and treat her with the respect she believes she deserves. I've battled with depression for the majority of my life and I immediately understood what Joy's philosophy was. Because she's so caught in her own head and can't see beyond what she perceives, she has lost all meaning in her life. She assumes life is worthless, but it takes her mother finally embracing Joy for who she is to bring her back to the light. It's very beautiful.
Well said Peter! Thanks for sharing that. Joy is such an amazing and complex character the analysis here is just spot on. There's so much to be sad about in this world so it's good that at least some films are trying their best to not leave depressed folks out of the picture.
There's also a very Asian-American/immigrant story in there of the child pushed too far by their parents who may not sympathize with their own struggles, seeing them as trivial compared to what they themselves had to endure.
You know, I thought this was just another one of those nihilist movies that claim humanity must serve an objective purpose or else "nothing matters" (which I strongly disagree with), but what you say is rather engaging. Makes perfect sense in the context of the film and gives much more depth to the character (in comparison to what I assumed it was about). Thanx for sharing this view.
As a person who has also experienced depression, I particularly noticed when Joy explained her motivations for hunting down her mother herself. She wants her mother to see the bagel, because all she really wants (and is continually denied) is for her mother to TRULY see and understand how she feels. It's the "you'll be sorry when I'm gone" of depression---that desire to inflict pain on others with your own self-destruction and finally give them what you have. Joy doesn't want to KILL her mother---she wants to inflict depression and hopelessness on her mother. It's the vindictiveness of ultimate sadness. The people who should feel saddest are the people who have made you the saddest. Then, through self-destruction, there will be justice. Finally everyone will understand. Finally you will be heard. So Joy is really going through a lot. Depression can be a lot like crying out for help but also lashing out at the same time. It is wanting help from a world that is hurting you. To see happiness is annoying because you can't have any of it, so you are angry at it, and yet you do want it. It's very confusing. Maybe it's true that those who have never been to the bottom of this particular pit cannot see this in Joy, but as the video says: If you know, you know.
I mean, she explicitly says in the movie that she was trying to find an Evelyn that could see things from her point of view to see if there was another way other than depressive nihilism. That to me screams of someone that is severely depressed begging for help, not an actual doomer nihilist, which... yeah, i can very heavily relate to.
I felt bad seeing all these people's stories about going to see this movie with their parents and said parents either HATED it or completely misunderstood its message. *( I know that's how my dad would react to this movie. Oof.)* My mom held my hand the entire last half hour and neither of us has stopped telling every person we come across to go see it.
My wife lobbied her mom and her mom's wife to go see it. They absolutely loved it--the theme of family connections hit home hard. A friend of mine was really bothered by it because he finds the whole "multiverse" trope in recent films to be a sign of irresponsibility in the larger culture, a theme of escape that treats entire realities as disposable, which he connected to bad politics. But in this movie, that's (an element of) Jobu Tupaki's attitude--the film ultimately rejects it.
This movie broke me and couldn't have come at a better time, the day before I watched it, I actually attempted suicide but it didn't work. After I watched the film, after breaking down several times in the movie theatre, I called my mum and told her the truth, I told her how broken and hopeless I've been feeling and it lifted a weight from my shoulders, I'm not entirely sure where to go from here but I think that I can do it
i feel the exact same way, this movie couldnt have come at a better time for me too. i don’t know you and am just a stranger on the internet but i genuinely do wish you all the best. hang in there and take care
The scene that moved me a lot was a subtle scene when the mom told her daughter's girlfriend that she should grow longer hair. Chinese parents are not good at showing love to their children, instead, blaming and complaining are their ways to say "I love you" to the children. It was the same for the scenes when she said to her daughter that she is fat and she needs to eat healthy. The fact that she was doing the same kind of things to her daughter's girlfriend means that she is accepting her as a part of the family.
The su*cide symbolism was the thing that I noticed first in this movie after coming out of the theatre. I related heavily to the feeling of just being so tired and burnt out and unhappy with many aspects of life, so when Joy was close to giving in to the bagel and "letting go", I interpreted it as letting go of life and ending it all because the alternative is too much. That brought me to tears because I could feel that pain on a personal level. Anyway! Great movie :)
The one thing I found really surprising was I thought I would identify with Joy more as a young millennial having to live with constant pressure from Asian parents, etc etc, but funny enough I related to Evelyn more in the end (a character archetype I NEVER relate to because they're typically one dimensional and the side character). Her realising and having to confront the reality of endless wasted potential hit me in the chest like a ton of bricks and made me instantly identify with her even when her mannerisms and very typical old world views are far and away from my own. Michelle Yeoh is an absolute powerhouse and should be proud of making Evelyn such an amazing character!
While I'm happy about Encanto and Turning Red's young protagonists trying to impress their demanding matriarchal family figures, I'm also extremely glad we have the opposite perspective too. I love my demanding mother at the end of the day, it took me years to realize how much she did for me and how much she loves me. And just like Evelyn, my mother didn't have the life opportunities to be something else, even though you can always see the potential. I was just so happy that someone finally acknowledge that part of the story too.
I cried several times during this film. When Evelyn told Waymond that she saw her life without him and it was better. When Jobu Tupaki/Joy as stone swore and said she had been holding out hope her mother would have shown her there was another way. When Waymond said in another life he would have loved doing laundry and taxes with her. In the final moments between Evelyn & Joy. I saw Joy struggling to find meaning. I also think there's something to the noise of being bombarded on all sides of your endless potential, of who you could be, who you should be. And Evelyn as most welling meaning mother's pushing Joy to her breaking point to be all she can be. There was a line I caught on my third viewing (I saw once by myself in theatre then the second dragging my parents to it thinking my mother would understand, would recognise obaachan in gong gong, and then recently with my aunt at home) where Evelyn tries to explain Jobu and says something to the extend of "Something wrong has taken root and corrupting my Joy" and I think that's truly poignant as that is happening, but not how she says it. Constantly we see in stolen seconds Evelyn wistfullly looking out, at film romances, at sign spinners, and in her taxes claiming she's a singer, a chef, a teacher, etc--all the things she imagines it would be better to be, lives that would fulfill her in a way her current life doesn't. She isn't satisified, she isn't content. She has lost her joy. And we see from her other lives and her coveting of them, their is something dark rooted in and corrupting her joy--selfishness. The way she so callously tells Waymond how much better her life is without him. The way she treats her daughter to bring herself the most peace with gong gong. And the solution to her disatisfaction is not to get everything she wants or escape into another life, but instead to open up to others and ultimately learn and become more like them. First with her daughter. And finally with her husband. I thought this was a beautiful movie, especially in its handling the themes of depression and disatisfaction and empathy & compassion overcoming. Also, someone somewhere said that with Encanto, Turning Red, Everything Everywhere All at Once--millenials are finally making films of their ultimate fantasy--our elders apologising for inflicting trauma on us.
I don't think elders apologizing was specifically point of the movie, but more about them understanding us better. Gong Gong and Evelyn didn't apologize to Joy/Evelyn but they did start to accept them for what they are and said they will always welcome and love them. There's still a sense of authority there (the part where Evelyn says "Don't call me Evelyn") but also emphathy and understanding. Evelyn also still critics Joy for only coming back when she wants something in the penultimate scene - but follows up she is always welcome and she will respect whatever decision she makes - including if she chooses to "go away forever". She will cherish whatever time they have left.
Stephanie Hsu did a fantastic job in her role. You could see the pain Joy felt from having to hide and deny her love Becky. When she was first fighting Evelyn in the IRS hallway, she did a full stop to rant that even with all the crazy mind-bending shit going on, Evelyn was still more upset that 'she liked girls in this universe'. Not a movie where I expected an LGBT theme to be presented. But it tied the story together perfectly.
I thought Joy's mental distress and subsequent descent into nihilistic self harm was so transparent. I related to her so so much and I think that the people who saw her as a meaninglessly angsty young adult completely missed the mark. It's been a while since I've felt so represented, especially when her voice cracked and she just said "I'm tired". That means so so much, it completely encapsulated how I've felt before and the continuous struggle I push against. Tired of living, tired of trying, tired of reaching out, of failure, of pain. I think Hsu's performance was quite good and I am a bit disappointed that people didn't see past the Juju persona to the existential sadness below. I hope that more people watch your video then rewatch the movie in a new light!
i thought i was done crying because of this movie, but this analysis proves me wrong! thanks for the analysis, really gives even more meaning to an already very meaningful movie. also the googly eyes and bagel being the opposite should be so obvious but I didn't even realise! but I thought joy being depressed is obvious, so I guess that says something about me.
I clearly didnt cry watching this video (especially the ending). There clearly was a drive by onion cutting that managed to hit me while I'm here in my windowless bedroom. Yep. A drive by onion cutting. That was it.
I haven't witnessed an audience reaction quite like what I got with EEAAO. People laughed, cried, cheered, sometimes all at once. It was cathartic not just as a movie going experience but beyond that. I felt like my soul was collapsing and then exploding in an array of emotions. This movie isn't just iconic but a landmark in film history. Not only that, Michelle Yeoh made me (and plenty others) felt Malaysian pride like nothing before! It's a once in a lifetime human experience. For those who haven't seen it, I don't care if you'll love it or hate it, just for the love of all that is holy, WATCH IT.
I loved this movie, beginning to end. As a depressive, I 100% recognized Joy's depression and how Evelyn's embracing of optimistic nihilism interacted with that. Great analysis!
I can’t believe people thought Joy’s character was pretentious. Maybe it’s because I’m an immigrants daughter but I was immediately drawn to her character/story and secretly rooting for her throughout the film.
I thought she was very well written and reminded me of my mother and her relationship with my grandma. I think "rooting for her" is kind of what ur not supposed to take from the film though as she represents utter nihilism and the yin to Waymond's Yang
To add to the Buddhist themes, the moment where Evelyn/Michelle Yeoh puts the "Google Eyes" on her forehead was such a great reference, perhaps symbolic of her finally opening up and seeing beyond her current physical realm and into the spiritual with her "Third Eye". I wouldn't say the Buddhist themes were unintended or accidental, because there was heaps of nods in the movie - surely the writers/directors knew and purposely filmed it that way.
If I were to use a "Vinegar Tasters" analogy, Joy sees life as bitter, full of suffering and pain and better off left behind. Evelyn sees life as sour, and that if you don't want it to go bad, you have to make correct choices, even if the choices are distasteful to you personally - an attitude she seems to have learned from her father. Waymond is the only one who finds the sweetness in life, not because he doesn't think the bitterness and sourness exist, but because enjoying what sweetness he can find is how he continues to enjoy his life, no matter what it brings. All three are faced with the same choices, tasting the same vinegar, but they draw different conclusions as to how it tastes.
You’re so right about Joy being depressed. She states quite explicitly that she what she had hoped from showing the bagel to her mother, Evelyn, was to have her tell Joy that she’s wrong, to help pull her away. And when that didn’t happen at first, she felt vindicated, felt ready to step into the bagel and die. It’s incredibly dark and impactful. Joy was reaching out in the only way she thought she could, to be heard and seen. At the end, this movie is about a mother and a daughter.
I feel dumb for not realizing that the bagel also kinda resembles the Enso symbol in Japanese Zen Buddhism. But I feel a bit more dumb for not recognizing the hints at Joy's depression when I myself have felt some deep depression in my life before. Maybe I've repressed it so much that all I saw in her character was another one of those nihilistic movie antagonists since I'm more or less a nihilist myself. And might I add that Joy is a pretty well ironically named character?
I might be a bit late but someone pointed out "Joy" is how you pronounce "disaster"(灾）in Cantonese. I find this mindblowing too cuz this never cross my mind while watching the movie even though I speak Cantonese😂
Here are a list of things I noticed that are interested themes of duality in the dialogue: * When Gong Gong first comes down, Joy yells at mom for her attention. Waymond also yells Evelyn, but because it alternates "MOM EVELYN MOM! EVELYN!" sounds like Joy is saying Evelyn much like how Jobu constantly calls Evelyn by her name rather than mom. * Both Deidre and Broom Closet Waymond say "There is nothing more important that the conversation that we are having right now." * During the security camera scene, Evelyn looks at Waymond on the monitor and says "I don't know how he would survive without me." Interesting considering in the movie verse Waymond is very well off. But also super interesting because Waymond says in the Van, "You should have never married me, \[....\] I see it in your face." A very interesting contrast where Evelyn says the words of disgust out loud but not facing him (only through a monitor) but Waymond sees it on her face without her needing to say it. * Continuing on the same Van conversation when Evelyn first success jumps to the Movie-Verse, she tells Waymond how her life turned out without him....."*You should have seen it."* I found this last part very beautiful because even though she had a great life without Waymond, she still wanted her Waymond to have seen it. Whether she was crying because she did not have a Waymond (yet) in that universe; if it was the beauty of it that made her cry or whether it was not being able to show her Waymond it is pretty cool IMHO. * When Evelyn tells Deidre she loves her: two things. Claire de Lune plays...the same song that is played with toes near the end. But also because the love is perceived as sincere, so that starts the path for her understanding the homosexual relationship that her Joy has. Being able to jump means you can feel the emotions of that universe, so therefore she must have been a lot more comfortable with the idea of being gay which leads to most understanding. Because in the hot dog universe she is in a loving relationship with Deidre. This is also in stark contrast in the beginning when she mentions her off screen how she "*targets the Chinese community*." * When Alpha Gong Gong tells Evelyn to kill Joy to prevent Jobu accessing that universe, is expresses "How do you think I feel?" when told it she is her granddaughter. This foreshadows a bit about how Gong Gong seems a bit more caring when it matters because he accepted Becky; not the perceived way that Evelyn projects onto him. Also there is a moment when during the security guards who first came out of the elevator; Gong Gong tells them she is a good daughter. Which I am imagining Gong Gong regrets being so harsh to her. * A long one but what I think happened during the ending regarding Joy and Jobu: > What I feel is that near the climax, where Jobu is trying to enter the bagel....and Evelyn tells her to stop calling her Evelyn, she is her MOM, that is when we get a bit of a splinter of Jobu and Joy. I would love to imagine that Jobu was in Joy's body while Evelyn was talking to Gong Gong and standing up to him. Jobu is just frustrated at the lengths that Evelyn is denying the bagel. >It's at this point when she gets sucked in but Evenlyn reaches and catches her with the rest of the family holding on behind her. Holding onto her wearing the same clothes as Joy in both the IRS building and the parking lot. Joy expresses how she feels and says to split from her mom. Evelyn lets go. I think this is Main Joy actually here expressing her feelings. >When Evelyn lets her go but then changes her mind...I truly believe that Jobu Tubaki is there in the parking lot in Joy. Joy's emotion but Jobu's information/memories. Evelyn repeats what was discussed in the rock scene, how we are small pieces of shit compared to the universe, and yet she would still want to be with her, regardless of Evenlyn being able to be anywhere but here. It's at that time I feel Jobu AND Joy reconcile, experiencing the same kindness that "DeFractured" Evelyn when she woke up from her death. * Gong Gong worries that Evelyn will become another Jobu Tubaki. Which Evelyn is hoping Joy does not turn out like herself. There is the theme that Evelyn becomes like her daughter in order to save her. It sort of clicks because when Gong Gong says "*How can you hope to defeat Jobu if you can't even kill her in this universe.*" Which can also be seen as an inverse. If Evelyn saves her Joy, this Joy, she can save all of them from Jobu's bagel. * In fact it can be suggested that Evelyn had always the potential to become a Jobu Tubaki because in her flashback, her own moment of staring at the "dark clothes washing machine spinning," like a bagel. The same look we have when first see Joy. We also see how Becky cheers and calms down Joy in the laundromat first with kisses in the intro but also telling her to breath when Joy and Evelyn go up for the bag of Laundry. Much like the supportive partner of Waymond. It's interesting because in this moment we see Evelyn telling Joy not to change the subject, and yet in the rock scene we see Rock-Jobu telling Rock-Evelyn to shut up and just be a rock. ​ Some duality of actions: * The whole push and pull of Evelyn between Waymond and Jobu. In the end Waymond convinces Evelyn to fight his way with kindness. What I find interesting is that Jobu in the end still wanted her mother's approval/company/knowledge about the Bagel. She was looking for her to tell her if there was anything more to it. Which is super interesting because the very same Rock Joy speech about being pieces of shit and short moments that make sense, Evelyn repeats to Joy. The logic of chaos and the rare moments of statistical anomalies that are "good" are only good because we choose to embrace them with kindness and compassion. Evelyn turned out to be the lynch pin between Jobu and Waymond's belief structures. Even when they face off at the bagel portal, Jobu's glove has a heart on it. * Continuing the belief structure of Waymond: At the point of her resurrection, Evelyn has the power like Jobu...to touch someone and cause them to "flash" through different verses, memories and potentially die from it. However after Waymond says "It's not too late" and they touch hands, it's Evelyn's face that flashes that shows her memories with Waymond and of kindness. In a sort of way Waymond has this same power as well if only for a moment. * In the beginning show of Evelyn organizing receipts you can see the Purple bag with googly eyes for Jenny Slate's character in the upper right corner. Similar looking to the Rock Evelyn embracing googly eyes. * When Evelyn is looking at the dance sequence on the TV, you can see in the lower left corner an advertisement for Evelyn Wang voice lessons, pre loading all the "hobbies as professions" talk at the IRS. * When Evelyn calls Waymond to come down with the baseball bat, there is a moment where you see the googly eyes attached on it. * While debatable I feel that everything that happened in the IRS office since the Punch to Deidre's face it became a pocket universe for Evelyn and Jobu to have their battle. Hence no real "resolution" to what occurred at the IRS office such as the aftermath as that specific universe. It's funny because then we can imagine that the IRS office is almost like a training ground for Evelyn to learn how to Verse Jump. Sort of like the setting to Metal Gear Solid 2 and simulations.
I think the pretentious parts where probably not stemmed from the main storyline's Joy but the Joy that's the main villain. I know they kinda are the same or whatever, but eh.
I think you're right in a sense about not being able to see the signs of depression in others. For years my mom couldn't understand what my siblings and I meant when talking about our depression. She used similar arguments that we were just entitled or selfish and "why couldn't we just suck it up like she did with her parents?" Which is unfortunately common with immigrant parents. Until recently she started to see the cracks in her life and how she put too much worth in some relationships that weren't healthy. So the movie came at a perfect time and walking out of that theater she was moved by the movie and didn't fully understand it but felt like she knew people like joy. And we all laughed it off but on the car ride home we told her we were the people that reminded her of joy. And for the first time I think she understood. And as much as she sees it now and wants her siblings to understand so they can mend their relationships with my cousins that are struggling with depression rn. She also knows that some people might not be ready to see it and will think joy is all those things she thought we were.
I saw this film at a very critical, vulnerable point in my life. I'd just finished university, and didn't feel like I had much of a future outside of education. Seeing Evelyn confront that sense of hopelessness in her daughter, to assert the importance of kindness and connection, brought tears to my eyes. It reminded me of what I'll need to get through, and I will always be grateful for that.
This movie uses the insane concept of a multiverse but at the same time touched on a very grounded theme of life decision you've taken. Questioning if there's another life, then what's the point of the current one if the other might've been better. It's like the phrase 'the neighbor seems to have greener pasture', we'll always feel envious of other because they seem to have a better life than us. It also touched just how exhausted you can get just because you keep having to meet expectations and resent it. On an unrelated note, this concept is used in Dr Strange movie, and yet it didn't really stick for me.
The part at the end when you said, “if you can’t see it in this movie, you probably can’t see it in real life” hit hard because I think a lot of people struggle to recognize the symptoms. I’ve heard “we just didn’t see it coming” so much and yeah, a lot of us are masters of masking but a lot of us aren’t and actually suck at it?? You know?
I too felt very connected to the character of Joy. And almost cried when Evelyn did not let her go in the end. Suffering from depression myself, it made so much sense in always thinking of the universe as a void. But in the end when Evelyn finally "shows another way", I felt so much happiness like I found something long lost. Being from one of the holy cities of Buddhism in India, and having known its tenants since I was a kid, your analysis makes so much sense. And I really don't think the filmmakers accidentally made parallels to buddhist philosophy. I think it was intentional and a very relatable message to our generation which deals with such nihilistic questions often. Thank you for the analysis. 💖
This movie made me weep multiple times, and I’m pretty sure others did too. I took it as a story about family estrangement, mental health & suicide. It was beautiful wish fulfillment that it worked out in the end. I loved it. Great to see all the other layers and hear your thoughts
6:08 this scene implies Waymond tried to stop the bagel (the washing machine) by happiness (the googly eyes) made it 'out of order', but alas Evelyne removes them. In other scene, we also see Joy staring at the spinning washing machine.
I related with Joy too much, it was so obvious that she was depressed, every single thing about her resonated so deeply with me. As someone who cannot come out to the world without being in danger, it's tiring and depressing to live a lie everyday. to know that you can't stop doing it because you'll never be accepted anywhere. This quickly spirals into depression. I don't know how people think it's nihilism or Joy being stuck-up, since she's actively desperately seeking to live, she wants to live, it's just that she doesn't see any way out for her out of this vicious circle of living a false life except death. This was the first time I truly felt represented in a movie, whatever I see in the mirror everyday is what I saw in Joy. I literally cried for an hour watching this movie, be however weird and funny it is, at the core of it is a bittersweet story of ordinary people and depression.
as someone who struggles with depression and anxiety, i feel stupid for not picking up that joy is depressed. funnily enough the other day, after going through quite a bad episode, i explained to my boyfriend that i was struggling to stay grounded and used joy's experience of passing through many lives but never getting to stay in one and savor it (thus making the bagel very tempting) as an example for what i'm feeling. it didn't occur to me that the movie was trying to talk about that, but now after watching your video i have an extra reason to bawl my eyes out. thanks 😭✌
Ok, three main comments from me: Wow. I never really thought how the Bagel and the Googly eyes parallel each other. It also shows the duality between Evelyn and Joy, how different they are, but are nonetheless made up of the same black and white. Even if "nothing matters", the bonds we make with others can transcend universes. I guess that's why the line that sticks the most to me is Waymond's "Maybe in a another life, I would have really liked just doing laundry and taxes with you." And man, Joy was so relatable. I get her a lot. I was at that state where I thought nothing, or perhaps I, didn't matter. And being let go did help, having some time for myself, alone, without the pressure, it really did help.
Loved this video and the movie! I think a lot of us queer Asians definitely see the struggles of Joy in our own lives too. Evelyn claiming to be “open-minded” at first while clearly showing displeasure, avoidance, and denial of Joy being a lesbian was... very accurate. Joy clearly appreciates and loves her family in her own way too, her tattoo would probably be a hint to how her affection tends to go underappreciated. I see both Evelyn and Waymond as parts of all of us, how whilst struggling, we are often required to adopt harsh, hardened personas in order to cope with life, and Waymond’s more optimistic way of life can often be pushed aside, in favour of more pessimistic views that are often valued more for being realist. Ultimately it’s probably better to accept that both are natural parts of life that should never be diminished for what they are-after all, there are no rules, and nothing matters, so perhaps it’s better to embrace life for what it is while finding joy.
@@toriestrella “just let them spend the last few years of their lives being happy” and the “you young people are constantly changing” gave me psychic damage
@@KY-dl6bj I would dearly love to see my grandmother again while she's still able to. I want her to know me as I am, how I've changed, how I've grown. It would be such a shame to rob her of that.
This is one of those rare movies manages to be both light hearted and severely serious in it's themes and I identified much with Joy's situation in the movie when I 1st watched this movie as person who also often see there is no point in life itself so I felt like this movie speak to me unlike alot of different movies
Thank you for a great analysis! When you discussed the bagel vs. googly eyes, I realized that the googly eyes always exist in pairs (or towards the end in multiples), while the bagel is always singular. Perhaps I over-analyzed it too, but to me that means life exists in companionship :)
We started watching this video yesterday, even though we hadn't seen EEAAO yet, thinking "meh, we'll probably never see it, I'd at least like to hear what AC thought about it." Got to the first bit where AC calls us out directly with "Bruh" and paused this. Spent last night watching EEAAO and then dealing with the aftermath of emotions and wild dreams that followed. All I can say is thanks, Accented Cinema. I am so glad you pushed me to check out this film. It's easily one of the best I've seen in the last decade, and that's not hyperbole. And your analysis, which I've just finished watching finally here, was great. Thanks to your nudge, I'll be thinking about this film for months -- probably years -- to come. As always, your efforts on our behalf are greatly appreciated. Thank you.
ok now i know that joy's "i'm tired" will definitely be one of those scenes that will automatically make me bawl for how much it resonates with me. (i thought i was done crying at this but now i'm sitting here, teary-eyed and snotty so apparently not!) brilliant analysis and i love the additional info and insight you provided. ironic how her name is joy but she's just so done with everything. i wish we could have gotten more waymond and joy interaction though. he softened both evelyn and joy's edges, and to digress only a tiny bit, i also feel like we don't see male characters - much more father figures - play these kinds of roles in a family setting in media. let's thank jackie chan for refusing the main role and so they switched it up to focus on michelle yeoh instead.
I saw my own mother in Evelyn, myself in Joy, and getting myself to therapy and starting a healing process brought the spirit of Waymond into our family. We’re catholic Latinos, and the beauty of this story and it’s representation is that despite the different culture and ethnicity I find more commonalities than differences. As much as we mythologize the story of the upstart immigrant it was very cathartic to see the struggling immigrant that finds the joy of life within the confines of their struggle. This is very much a film I wish I could grown up with, and I know I’ll have my children see when I finally my own.
one thing about this film is that it can be as grand as the meaning of life, and as "small" as personal struggle and generational trauma. there are layers and depth and sincerity in it
Thank you for pointing out Joy’s deep pain. As an Asian American daughter of a mother similar to the worst Evelyn, I resonated deeply with Joy’s anxiety about her self being rejected by her mother in the beginning of the film and in turn, her hopelessness. On a personal level, I turned to nihilism in my darkest moments to cope with the difficulties of having such an upbringing and I think the film did a beautiful job representing that in Joy’s journey. While Evelyn was able to realize the error of her ways, a lot of Asian mothers never get there and that made the film all the more gut wrenching to watch. #teamjoy
As a person suffering from depression myself, and also having grown up in an Asian household, this movie hits close to home. I don't think I've ever cried this much and this hard when viewing this movie for the first time. I'm thankful that I was able to give this movie a chance when it first came out, and I will hold the messages that the movie presents dear to my heart
Great interpretation! I’m into the topic of consciousness. The way I interpreted this is that everything is like a mirror. When Evelyn sees her father not accepting that she married Waymond and regrets that she is living in this failing life, it reflects onto Joy. Hence, this vicious cycle. When Evelyn uses Alpha Waymond’s way of using kindness, she understood Joy’s love choice when she was in the hotdog universe, she sees Waymond’s unconditionally loving him in the fame / kungfu universe, etc. She no longer yearns for a different life in another universe and fully accepted herself whether or not gong gong accepted her and ended the cycle. Suffering comes from us seeking love, happiness and and acceptance from outside of ourselves. When we accepted ourselves, loving ourselves and sees everything else through the eyes of love and kindness, everything changes. Everything is not always what it seems or the way we believed it to be, see through the googly eyes, aka the eyes of love and kindness and you will find joy here and now. 😃
Having been through depression before, I instantly picked up that Joy as a character was derpessed. I started crying in the movie because of how relatable it was. I said and felt similar things. It really hit home.
This is a subtle and accurate depiction of language in a Chinese family. Gong Gong (父父) is a monolingual Cantonese speaker. He grew up in the period of time and region of China where Cantonese was the dominant spoken language and was taught in the schools. Evelyn and Waymond grew up in the period time after Mandarin became the official language and was taught in the schools. They spoke Mandarin outside of the home, but spoke Cantonese in the home when speaking with their parents. Waymond's Mandarin with a Cantonese accent is indicative of someone who learned Cantonese first in the home and Mandarin later.
Imo it’s really a movie about relationships and their complexities. Between parent, child, spouses, strangers. About love, acceptance, life, progression, everything everywhere all at once. It’s a universal story that can be related to by anyone regardless of it’s setting, the character’s race/background and how fantastical it is. Really loved this movie.
for me it was easy to see joy and evelyn as two sides of the same depressed coin. when you have depression, it's so easy to get sucked into the thought of "nothing matters and so i won't bother trying". but for me, when i started treating my depression, i found myself on evelyn's side of things: "nothing matters and so i can do what i want". i thought it was really great to see this path, that i know a lot of people who have depression take, in this movie
I just watched it and I was surprised to know that people didn’t realize Joy suffered from depression 🥺 The signs were there but just like in real life, unless explicitly said, a lot of people who never suffered don’t understand the signs’ significance.
I know my circles - we saw the suicide and depression theme right away. Especially because the whole point of sharing The Bagel with Evelyn is trying to find someone who actually can see things from her view, and how bad it is, simply so she can NOT be alone. (And, also, of course, a cry for help at a point where... across all universes it hasn't worked so far).
Anyone who's ever been born as the "Eldest" or the "Responsible One" in an Asian Family, will see outright that Joy and Eveylyn are pretty much two sides of one chracter, one just progressed into self desctructive nihilism faster than the other. Everyone expects you to be perfectly reliable, live up to their expections while they themselves screw around. Its pretty toxic stuff if you don't know how to deal with it.
everyone is entitled to their own opinion but i don’t understand how you could watch joy’s depression, pain and reconnection with her mother and call her a pretentious character. especially once the movie spells out for the audience that the reason why jobu tupaki is travelling throughout the multiverse is because all she wants is to find a version of her mother who understands her. the scene where joy told evelyn to let her go broke my heart, because we know how badly its paining her to say that and evelyn knows too and tells her ‘still you went looking for me through all of this noise’. despite the hurt their relationship was causing her, joy was still trying to reach out to her mother. and evelyn learned to reach back for her. their mutual effort in holding onto their relationship and trying to understand each other & that scene when they reconcile and hug still makes me tear up when i think about it. life is chaos and suffering and meaninglessness but holding onto human connection & the relationships we have & cherishing those ‘few specks of time’ make it worth living
I loved this movie and started crying a lot about the the actions of the husband and the mother and daughters relationship. Was so relatable. Also I hadn't realise the husband actor wasn't s deep fake of Michelle yeoh pretending to be Jackie Chan. It was such a good film
the line "Losing my "Joy"", that the mother utters is basically a slap in the face telling you its about depression. also the Antagonist's Goal of Suicide is something depressed people do. I honestly love Joy and Hsu's performance. although im abit curious if Awkwafina would actually pull the role off.
You seen The Farewell? I think she has the talent, but I think casting a lesser known but equally gifted (maybe more so) actress with a history with the directors (so incredible trust and respect) was the right way to go.
@@kernalbert4939 yup, seen it. she was good. but the grandmother was definitely the stand out. Hsu actually pulled off an amazing performance and Fina will probably do well. just curious how well she can do it, maybe in another multiverse.
If you watch the scene in the hallway right after jobu jumps to the alphaverse, Evelyn grabs joy and tells her she understands that she (joy) is so sad, feels like there's something dark and heavy in her, that is making her this way. The punchline is of course that Evelyn is talking about jobu topaki, but watch joy's face. For a moment she thought her mother finally understood her mental health struggles
I also think when Evelyn is pulled back from her nihilism by Waymond's kindness and learns to 'fight with kindness', it exemplifies the theme of compassion, especially as she puts the googly eye on her "eye of consciousness." I thought there was references to Daoism in putting the googly eye there - yin and yang, the googly eye balances/is complimentary to the bagel
I may be overanalyzing the movie too. Here are my thoughts: - The title "Everything everywhere all at once" doesn't necessarily refers to the multiverse. You can think of it as "kindness is everything everywhere all at once" or "love is everything everywhere all at once". - The googly eyes and the bagel are representation of yin and yang. Furthermore, the googly eyes are not perfectly centered, showing that you don't need to be perfect to be be positive. - Circles appear a lot throughout the movie. In the starting scene, we see the family photo through the a round mirror. The washing machines have round doors. Deirdre draws a circle on the tax form. Deirdre has a round mirror. Not to mention both the bagel and the googly eyes are circular. It may be a representation of the perpetual life. Another interpretation is that these circles can either be the bagel or the googly eyes, depending on our take in life. - In the movie, Evelyn needs to tackle a multiversal crisis related to Joy. We can also interpret that, for outsiders, Joy's issue may be trivial, but to her, it can be a multiversal issue, it can be everything to her, it can be all her existence. So we shouldn't dismiss other people's problem as trivial. - Some people say that the jokes in the movie are too absurd, but I find meaning in them. Real life can even be more absurd than those jokes. Regardless, the movie shows that even in those absurd situations, we can still find our way and make the most out of it.
I watched this film with my mom and we both cried and hugged at the end because we saw ourselves reflected on the screen: her struggle as the mother of a suicidal daughter trying to save her, and the struggle of said daughter trying to get her mom to understand she doesn't need saving, but understanding. I'm much better now but watching the movie brought back memories. I'm thankful for stories like these.
thought I was done crying over this film 😭 way too relatable to immigrant family experiences. There's something to be said of the disconnect of mental health discussion between immigrant parents and their children. I loved that Evelyn realized what she had to do at the end: to be there in the present and embrace Joy.
At first I though this movie was all about breaking the cycle of abuse, because of like how Evelyn’s father treated her and how she eventually treats her daughter by not acknowledging her and not giving her the love that she deserves. And I though that in order to bring balance to the multiverse Evelyn must lead to love and forgive in order to break that cycle
I haven't seen anyone mention this yet, but one minute detail that I noticed and really, _really_ loved was during the end sequence. Evelyn has to fight Deirdre with love and the whole emotional sequence itself is beautiful, Dierdre goes from depressed and isolated herself (just like Joy, Evelyn and multiple characters) "it's cold, unlovable b*tches like us that make the world go 'round" and Evelyn tells her she loves her, basically-just like the first fight scene where she had to love her and _truly_ mean it. They hug and Deirdre says, "I feel nothing" and then starts crying-she starts feeling. The little detail that I love is that once Alpha Gong Gong gives the order to open fire, not only does Evelyn step in front of gunfire to sacrifice herself to protect Deirdre-both Waymond _and_ Deirdre reach forward to stop Gong Gong, to protect her too. Obviously Waymond is her husband so we can somewhat expect that from him, but Deirdre transforms entirely in such a short sequence in my opinion and I love it. She went from hating herself, scorned, unlovable, unfeeling... to emotional, starting to find value in herself and willing to protect someone that she loves. The scene where Evelyn, Gong Gong and Waymond all hold onto Joy and pull her out of the bagel (the darkness) is a very obvious representation of that same idea, but I loved how subtle they made it for Deirdre in that moment where she reaches up to protect Evelyn
Also, it’s kind of crazy more people didn’t realize Joy is depressed/suicidal. In the beginning when she’s trying to ask Evelyn if Becky can come to the party, Joy says, ‘Becky, I’ll f*cking kill myself’
Just before the "conclusion" segment I wanted to leave a comment to say that the movie to me was mostly about nihilism and depression. Nice to know that other people saw that too. As someone eyperiencing suicidal thoughts and heavy depression for quite some time I heavily related to Joy's pleading to "just let her go" but I also find it comforting to know that Evelyn wouldn't. Especially liked how Waymond was a symbol of love, of connection that is worth living for. A caring, sensitive man with a lot of joy in his heart. The kung-fu also was pretty cool. Definitely watching the movie again, once it comes on physical disc.
this movie is incredible, and means so much to me as queer asian american with depression. it made me laugh with delight and also made me weep. i was so deeply seen by the character of Joy, and for you to point out the reality of her story at the end of this fantastic analysis of symbols means a lot.
Another EEAAO analysis and again I'm teary-eyed As someone who "knows", it's just incredible and almost unbelievable to me when you said how there might be people who can't see "it" and sees Joy as pretentious and self-centered like holy shit -- yes that's terrifying
I've fought depression for about 30 years. It is difficult most days. Something we may forget is that there are moments, times, maybe days where existence allows reprieve. If you are fighting, may the next peaceful moment come to you soon. In whatever form it may take. Sending my love to all of the fighters out there.
Evelyn and Joy very much are the yin and yang of my personality. Like Evelyn, I suffer from ADHD, and like Joy, I suffer from depression. And it's a credit to Daniels that they portrayed both accurately, without pity or pathos or the sledgehammer of This Character Is Depressed, but just a bit of dialogue and some amazing performances from two brilliant actors.
I'm so pleased you mentioned that the everything bagel and the googly eyes are both visual and metaphorical opposites. I realised that as I was watching it in the cinema a few months back. The added perspective of correlations between Buddhism were extremely interesting though, as I know nothing on the subject so I really enjoyed your addition of that. As for Joy and the widespread misinterpretation of her and her intentions; I am so surprised. Surprised that people didn't realise her character was suffering from depression and that it culminated in her wanting to be sucked into a literal hole so she didn't feel her pain anymore. I resonated with her so much. Although I am a white person from a middle class upbringing; the pain of coming out as gay (and for me also coming out as nonbinary) and the emotions and alienation I felt when I saw the lengths my family went to in order to hide my truths from others in my life - broke me. Your identity isn't your own, your emotions aren't your own - you have to morph yourself into this other entity in order to appease others around you. It does so much damage to a person's mental and emotional wellbeing. I picked up on all of that with Joy. And then the self harm and suicidal ideation her character displayed in reaction to her pain from these experiences were once again, all too relatable. I felt that familiar exhaustion her character displayed when she said "I'm so tired" - you don't know anything but pain anymore and it is so exhausting and draining. You just want to slip away into that black hole of pain because you have tried for so long. But as Joy showed, it does get better and the everything bagel doesn't deserve to absorb her so soon. I'm living testament to that also.
Didn't even see the inversion of the bagel and the googly eye before you shared it in this video - this movie just keeps on giving and rewarding thought and rewatches! And thank you for including the red paper lantern w/ googly eye hug, that little shot gives me such joy.
OMG! You had me balling at the end of the video! 😭 No, I had not noticed that Joy is actually a person dealing with depression, and neither did I notice all the suicide references.😔 And how brilliant that the Daniels named this character Joy!! This whole movie is BRILLIANT!! 👏🏻 And I really appreciate your explanation of many things in it. Thank you! 🙏🏻
Brilliant movie, brilliant acting, brilliant loving commentary. I saw the depression the first time around, and loved the ending, which finally, finally, wasn't the American "good beats evil, evil dies" endings. It showed heart. We need more googly eyed movies. ;)
Damn I'm blown away that people were characterizing Joy that way, her character themes were very obvious to me as someone that's had to deal with a lot of depression and suicidal ideation in both myself and my family members and friends. This was such an incredible movie, just seeing you replay some of the scenes from it was bringing me to tears. I love that you're encouraged to view the world through Evelyn's perspective all the way through. I never really felt like her actions and perceptions were conflicting with my own, which makes a lot of the third act revelations so much more potent, because we're experiencing them at the same time Evelyn is.
“if you know, you know” is a sordidly perfect way of regarding joy’s depiction. as someone who’s first watch was today, it just was all so keen. a very well done movie + analysis!
Really loved the conclusion. It's one of the many themes that resonated to me, but Joy's depression is rarely, if at all, discussed in a lot of the reviews I've read.
As someone who has experienced extreme depression and suicidal thoughts, this movie resonated with me deeply. Joy spoke so much truth about the suffering that comes with depression & I LOVED IT
I do agree with you! The second time I watched it, it hit me that Joy was depressed and her wanting to go in the bagel and "vanish" into existence resembles greatly of suicide. I also love how although her name in English is literally happiness, she does not embody it and is feeling hollow inside like the bagel she made.
I feel the same emotion with Joy. To against my depression, I would like to do anything and break any obstacles, except responding to my mother's constant requests. Joy's performance is brilliant, although I mentioned before the final scene that she almost cry but tried her best not to. I really like this movie.
Normally I don't really care if people like or don't like something but this movie to me feels like one of the few things where if somebody finds it pretentious or thinks its stupid it makes me really question how good of a person they are
The imagery of Joy being sucked into a blackhole is representative to depression. I thought about that as soon as I saw the movie. I thought you missed that but thanks for the conclusion
I, too, got emotional when Joy said: "I'm tired, please just let me go" because I'm related to that mindset so much. I don't know if my brother, who watched it with me, realized that Joy is going through depression or not, but I could saw it when she said that she wanted to go into the bagel to stop her endless suffering. I almost cried at the part where Evelyn and Joy hugged/collided into each other. And oh man, did Accented Cinema made me ball my eyes out again T.T
I think it should be mentioned about living in survival mode. Evelyn is clearly showing the signs, and it affects Joy as Evelyn is unconsciously projecting her own issues to her daughter. Edit : Oh yeah, other than Buddhism, I feel that the three wisdom of the Bible also can be seen here : - Ecclesiastes, the 'pessimist', tells us that life will end no matter what we do. This is Joy. - Proverbs, the 'optimist', tells us that life can be good if we do the right thing (the wise thing). This is Waymond. - Job, the one who 'suffers', tells us that life can be painful even if we do the right thing. This is Evelyn. Also, I feel that Evelyn's inner journey is kinda similar to Job, including the absurd parts.
I cant believe someone else felt this. Whole movie I was thinking how everyone's mind is corrupted and how people are just blind because how demonized they are. Interesting scene with the policeman is when joy touches his head and he vomits, realizing in that moment what an awful human he is. Also the whole point of eyes is for people to see true reality. Love, care, empathy, honesty etc Everything that bible portrays. This movie represents how empty and souless we have become. Joy is a true example of emptiness. Modern demonized lesbian teenage girl who doesnt have a sense of meaning nor empathy. I wish people understood this movie a little deeper.
As someone whos lived the life of joy, wanting acceptance from your parents and people you care about for some reason and always just wanting to end it, end your stress, your anxiety, your sadness; i sobbed when joy's mom told her that speech in the end and she accepted that she can try to live a life with lows because the highs mean just so much compared to them.
I'm going to push the Buddhist argument further by pointing out that in the nondualist interpretations of Mahayana Buddhism rooted in Nagarjuna, the goal explicitly becomes NOT escaping the world of suffering because the difference between samsara and nirvana is simply one of perspective not reality. You can see the world through the framework of ignorant clinging to impermanent phenomena, or through compassionate embrace of reality as it is, one of fleeting but precious ephemera. This is why enlightened beings in the Mahayana tradition are believed to remain integrated in reality continuing to help unenlightened beings rather than exiting our reality to end their own suffering.
