My old friend and buddy Phil owned the 73 250 Elsinore around 1977. He weighed under 90lbs. We were just kids, and I never saw a pro racer to this day, pull a 3rd gear holeshot like he could on that bike in 1977. :)
I just noticed Rick Johnsons 86 with USD forks? I wonder if he had an edge on David Bailey? I saw em battle it out at the Dallas Supercross back then and it was pretty darn cool.
Honda kicked butt in the 80's and 90's. When Roger De Coster left Honda, Honda lost. I have owned the 82 2 fiddy, the 85 and 86 2 fiddy R, and I raced the 84 500r, to me the most fun bike of the bunch. They say the 84 pinged, mine, didnt. I own a nice 89 that I bought as a basket case, and slowly fixed it up to be a good reliable racer-rider. Its a great bike, and it easily smokes most modern 2 smokers. Cool video bruh! Red Riders!!!!
Me and a buddy bought the first two 73’ CR250M in Wichita. The bike was a rocket ship compared to other Japanese bikes. I went shopping and sampled several Euro brands; Bultaco, Ossa, Husky and the rate and out of reach Maico. I raced locally and was very successful. I even raced open class and ever felt out classed. But a that time I was a completely fearless wild man. So many good memories. 😎
I had an ‘84 CR250R (no problems) and a ‘90 CR500 that was almost unrideable due to the horribly stiff suspension. Great bike for wheelies. The front end worked better when it was in the air.
The 1984 CR250 had a manufacturing flaw where the piston ring would catch on the port due to poor chamfering of the port. A lot of them broke pistons or cracked the cylinders. I know this because mine did. The '84 was a beast though. That thing made monster power.
yes in 84 the cr 250 was unbeatable..unless you blew it up..th yz was very fast handled like locomotive and was bulky..the rm was distant 3rd place with a good shock ..and the kx was just a slow goofy handling weirdly suspende bike(though my bro had a 1983 model and I liked the midrange power)
You do a great job of what I call "Manufacturing Nostalgia" and not many people understand how intense it is to make a new model almost every year that was common of this more free era of MX bike manufacturing. Really good, HERO type stuff IMO, (both you and these manufactures of this era). Because you are covering the entire span of time with the brands existence, I would also love to see the retail price for each bike. It could help show us what influences cause products to go up in price. Lets show the kids today,---how easy was yesterday to ride. They should know that history too IMO. :) You built a really good channel man. Good job. Doug in Michigan
I owned an Elsinore in 73. It was light, reliable, and pretty fast. Chrome-moly frame, aluminum tank, and really pretty. I did try to start it once with just Keds on and it kicked back through my foot. Still have that scar.
Back in the late 70's, a friend of mine had the 73 250 Elsinore that was in great shape, and he weighed about 90lbs. 3rd gear hole-shots on grass were no problem for him, digging a continuous 80 foot long trench in the grass, sod flying for the entire gear, until he hit 4th gear. That light 90lbs must be it on that bike. I don't think I have ever seen anybody pull off a start like that.
When this bike came out in 73 our local Honda dealer got one and invited everyone down to the local track. About a hundred of us showed up and by signing a waiver you could ride it around the track I was only 14 at the time so just went to watch, I am so glad I did but remember back in 73 we did not have Playstation we had dirtbikes. What I witnessed that day was no less history in the making 2 guys out of about 20 managed to stay on it the powerband for that bike at that time was at least to me suicidal, I could go on and on I ended up with the 74 CR125 🙂. Has a young man and the way I remember it before the CR came out alot of guys rode the CZ, Bultaco or Husqvarna but the CR changed the game.
Really great stuff Tony!. It's cool to hear what these bikes did well (and not so well) through the years. I had to wait till the very end (of ep 1) to see the one I owned LOL. I had an 89 and I absolutely loved it. I instantly fell in love with the blood red 88, then in 89 when it came out with the inverted fork, it was all over, I had to have one!. I bought mine in 1990, while the 90 model was already out. I guess Honda made a s*** ton of em because dealers still had some and they were marked down like 1,100 bucks!. Got mine for $2,899, vs $4000 for a new one. I was also OK with the 'old' model because the 90 looked like an XR ;-) I heard all of the grumbles about the forks, but I never noticed them being bad because I was really just a woods basher and hill climber (although a pretty aggressive one) and I never really raced. I remember hearing it had the best motor that year, but I remember it being bc it was powerful yet linear, long and tractable. I can say that it was an absolutely amazing motor for the woods. I never struggled with it, even at low revs. It tracked super smoothly, and made power everywhere, like a four stroke on steroids 👍💀
Influential for sure! I bought one of these things and after couple of seasons falling off of it I was influenced to take up observed trials instead of MX!
Now if Honda could build a manufacturing dynasty in Japan after WW2, but Tucker was destroyed by our own congress after WW2, (right after he helped greatly in the war effort),----------------------------who really won WW2? Tucker was not "free" to compete,---and nobody has been since in the USA. Tucker and Honda were cut from the same cloth. They wanted to build a lot of things. Was Tucker the only one screwed,---or all the employees he would have had, and all the after market manufacturing service he would have supported? I guess we can't measure the damage of what could have been done in the USA, (if we really won the war for our freedom to do it.),---unless we look at what Honda has done since WW2.
Look at all that bike development for 2 decades before the FIM imposed "production rule" of 1986, (that tripled the cost of a bike in 5 years. Again with the forced 4-stroke. Wonder why sales are low?), All that development in 20 years,---only raised the cost of a bike about 50%, from a grand to $1,500. Then came the outside invasions,---and here we are, almost a dead sport on energy drink life support. Enjoy the ride as long as you can. That is what we are suppose to do in life. :)
I had a '75, '76, '78, '79 Elsinore.......strangely I liked the '76 with some mods the best, then the 79. All were reliable and beautiful as a Honda should be!
I had a 78 and a 79 R for years and someone gave me an M with the green stripes but the M never ran and I let it go soon after. I never knew that they kept putting the chain on the right and the kicker on the left for so many years before switching it back.
Geeze.... years ago I had a 73 Suzuki TM400R, 74 CR250M, and an 84 CR250R (plenty of other Honda's, including both an ATC250R and 200X as well as an 85 Odyssey FL350, lot's of CB750s, and a CBR1100XX, but not any of their other motocross bikes....no wait, I also had an 86 CR80R 😅) Edit: what you didn't note about the change from 83 to 84 for the CR250R, was the move of the Kickstarter from the European style left kick, to the "normal" right side. Also, I had an 84 CR250R as mentioned above, and while when I bought it when I was like 13 or 14yrs old back in the early 90s and bought it both from an ex AMA amateur and bike mechanic, so nothing on the bike was stock when I bought it (everything, suspension, bored, rod, rims, hubs, reeds, expansion and silencer, everything aftermarket), I rode the ever loving hell out of that bike absolutely everywhere, streets, woods, track, railroad tracks, everywhere, until I was 17, I don't even know how many hours or miles I put on that thing beating the dog 💩 out of it, and it never once gave me any issues (besides kicking that higher compression bigger bored thing over before I actually knew the tricks I know now lol), and never even took off the top end, and it was still an absolute monster when I reluctantly sold it when I ended up getting a Banshee 😅
I bought a 1980 CR250R after getting mowed over by Honda’s in 1978 & 1979 on the track. I bought a set of Fox Airshox and was in line for the massive aluminum Fox rear swing arm ahead of a few big name pro riders. I spent roughly $2000 for the bike and another $1200 for hop up items, but what a year I had many wins on the track. I then made the mistake of buying a 1981 CR250R. What a piece of junk! I went through a number of 2nd and 3rd gears. Finally, Honda sent a complete replacement transmission to fix the problems and to keep me going. I had lost all confidence in Honda and went back to Suzuki in 1982 which was an absolute rocket ship that year. Thanks for the memories.
Singing a 2T symphony. In 1987 the bike to have was the KX though. The green machines dominated the 80s for the 125 class with the YZ right on its heels. The RM, if built right was a ripper but unfortunately team red couldn't get chassis and suspension dialed in which left them at the back of the pack in the 125 class. If only I could go back to 1987 and be 15 all over again. I would keep my bikes and be riding them still today. My uncle was one of the best engine techs and my KX was the fastest 125 in 4 counties. He also built my CR 480. you want to talk about a sick machine holy mother of God that thing like to rip your arms clean off. For a rather heavy bike the frontend was very light and only got lighter the more you twisted the throttle. The golden age of motorcross was definitely the 80s and 90s with some of the most raw machines ever built IMO.
The original CR250 it was cheap indeed. It was no slouch when fitted with the optional cylinder and ignition. But it was an awful motocross. The frame, forks flexed like rubber bands. But it was cheap and that's why it sold like mad. In those days hotshot rode a CZ, Husky or Maico. End of story. After 1975, that was a different story.
Digging your channel. I’m 56 so I’ve seen a bunch of these year models in my life. Back in the day I picked up a 1978/79 with red motor and left side kick, it was a quirky bike but cool nonetheless. My fav 1996, had two of them and one put me in the hospital. lol. Keep up the good work.
There is a good reason why the 91 Model is ugly. Because it was to mimic the 81 model...which was ugly. It's amazing just how much the wrong colour combination can leave an impression.....forever.
IDK ….lol… I am fortunate enough to have three CR’s in my garage right now all restored and all get a day to hit the dirt ! 92,93 CR 125’s & 85 CR250 that 250 scares me lol it’s a ignorant nasty bike ! I wouldn’t call it a slow bike by any means
Well the time has come and I felt this might be a place to start. I just looked up 2 strokes for sale and I actually couldn’t find but two meanwhile there were an abundant of 4 strokes for sale. People just don’t want them and the time is now for the switch back to the true racing machines. I also watched a pro motocross race today and the stands were empty. No one is going to the races. I big factor is the lugging 4 stroke but there are some other issues I won’t get into right now. If Honda and the others are listening it is time to bring back the CR250. Brand new on the showroom floor and with the new style body yet with the best CR250 motor made. You don’t even have to over do it and the bikes will sell. I am saddened at what has happened to the sport. Motocross has a strong blue collar background with young men that were proud to be tough but those kids can’t even come close to buying s bike now at these prices. It’s destroying the sport. If I was Honda which made the best racing 250 ever I would make sure the people get what they want. The news would spread far and wide and Honda would not even be able to keep up with the sales and parts. Honda, give us the finest machine ever made back to us. We won’t let you down
When i was in highschool, I had a crf 230 and my buddies both had yamahas. Their bikes were always not starting, and in the shop. My bike was always good to go. Loved that thing. Even if it was a girl bike. lol.
My first full size bike was a 1986 CR125R. I was 15 years old and still remember paying $2600 for it with my own money. I went into the shop every Friday to give the salesman (Tom) my money until it was paid off. I remember machining a spacer with a friend for the ATAC to get more power out of the low end. Race Tech did the suspension. Great bike that I kept for 3 years racing D-37 until I replaced it with a 1989 CR125R. You're right... the HPP was a pain to keep clean but Super-M helped reduce the work load. Thanks for the look back Tony. Great job!
I want to get into racing ahrma, between the two that I have narrowed down would you choose an 83 or an 86? Anyone reading this give me your opinions. Thanks! Good informative video Tony
The Motocross Vault cool, I’m trying to track down a 86’ 125 currently to restore and race vmx on. Pretty hard to find in Australia for some reason. Half of them are probably rusting out in fields lol.
I bought an 86 when I was young in 1991. Such a great machine. So good that of all the bikes I’ve had, it’s the only one I decided to buy again which I did a couple of years ago. Just an amazing thing.
Awesome video. I have an opportunity to buy a 1976 CR250M. I love the sound of a 2 stroke. All I will do with it is take to shows and out around the neighborhood. Don’t plan on going off road. In a few years I will sell and donate the money to charities. Will the 76 work for what I want?
I had the 1984 cr 250 and loved it . I never had a problem with the engine it was built up a bit with a wiseco piston and I ran the crap out of it for years .great video man
I broke a front wheel rim a Month back on an rare stock '89 - 500RF with those forks, ok, its 33 yrs old but Those Showa's are as Insensitive & scary, as they were back in 1990. I've just got hold of an '89 - 250RF which feels like the mods were done.- at least this made them work a lot better. The Showa's looked very pretty though, Lots of work to make them good but there was a sweet spot which made the '89s feel the best. IMHO. You are so accurate. p.s., i won on an '89 - YZ250 many times, but rode two '89 - 250RF's and knew the Honda motor was quicker, once the forks were sorted, the bike was all round amazing. Great memories.
What Honda is that bike on min 2:42? That is not a the cylinder and head of the 73 Elsi. In fact, I bought a new NAPA compressor for my shop air compressor,--and that head looks like the vintage Elsi head. So much so, I think they copied it.
Loved the video! 👍👍 Through the 80s I owned & loved alot of Hondas (MCs and ATCs). On the CR 250 bikes (also had a 85 CR125) I owned a 87 and 89. Loved the 87.... Such a great bike. Everything was perfect! The 89.... Awful.... I LOVED (still do) the looks of the 88-89 gen with all blood red, but.... Hated it mechanically. The UD forks were awful! Everything on the 89 was a huge step backward. I was faster and more comfortable with the 87. The 89 suspension was so off and would do weird things. Awful decel headshake and erratic high speed sketchy. I think now that 89 was in the back of my mind why I personally never rode a Honda again. I did continue to buy Hondas (MCs & quads) for my kids and wife, though. I took a break after eventually selling off the 89. When I came back I switched to KTMs and I'm still on KTM today (300XCW). Honda Id purchase today? Easy, any gen LC CR500 👍
it was said that the inverted fork was too stiff for the frame. before the 1989, the fork would flex and assist the frame, but once they went upside down, the frame started to flex more, which is why they went to the pyramid design in the 1990s. I purchased my 89 second hand after it came 3rd outright in the fastest race in the southern hemisphere against bikes such as the 540ktm which was banned in 7 countries. it had been modified and was even more explosive than standard, tuned specifically to reach a sustained 170km/hr on sand. A friend of mine who i road with for years hopped on my new bike, went for one ride, then said he was selling his bike...then commenting : if that is the type of bike im going to have to ride in the future, im going to drive cars. the front forks were totally @#$@#$, but the rest of the bike was awesome. it was just fortunate that the front wheel spent most of its time in the air.
1985 was the last year of the real RC250 in the US......a few sleeps later, "don't worry possums, we have the 1987 CR250RH. Consider it an RC Replica". My favourite CR250 of all time.
I had a 79’ cr250r back in the day. I loved that bike. Lots of power and it was fast. Never did any pro racing but tore up the local track pretty good. The only thing I didn’t care for was the rear suspension/shocks but it sure was fun to ride and it surprised a few people I rode with.
I loved this video, thank you very much. Suggestion, it would have been cool to mention who were the factory Honda riders when a particular model/year came out. Otherwise, I always raced Honda's in my youth. The bike I have now, is constantly try to put me in the hospital, LOL... technology and tons of power. 😃👍
I was born in 86 and always been a honda guy since i had my 99 cr 125 and 80. I was 13 and fell in love with Honda's and would love to have an '86 125 or 250!
I had the 88 CR250. It had bad suspension, (If I could push it to it's limits, it had bad suspension), and the engine was soft on the bottom. But it revved pretty good. I did my first port job on that engine, and using the stock pipe, that thing was fast as hell from mid range on up. It may have been the fastest 250cc MX bike I had owned, (but would have liked some more low end), including my 2019 YZ250, (which has a similar power curve stock). I also got my jetting on the lean side, and that is worth up to 3hp right there. :) In a drag race to the first corner, that bike was hard to beat.
I had a 88 CR250 in 91 when I was 18 I thought just the opposite it had great low end torque a hill climbing monster the suspension was great also but I was @120lbs. and comparing it to the 84CR500 I had before it.
That is a hard question to answer. Probably 2006-2007, but the case-reed motors were less popular than the 1996-2001 engines. The later chassis and suspension is better but the motor is not as snappy and torquey as the earlier motors.
Excellent video thx!! I own an 89' 250R, you've inspired me to restore it! How would you say my bike's speed or torque compares to a modern 4-stroke dirt bike let's say 2010 - 2015 years? Would you say mine is faster / more powerful than a CRF 450R?
No, it won't be as fast or powerful than a modern 450 4-stroke, (or the pros would be racing them). But, it is much cheaper to maintain, usually lighter and more fun to ride. That does not mean you can't race it and win. That still depends more on the rider skill, and not too many human beings can handle the 60hp of a dirt bike. Your 250 will be around 45hp. The 4-stroke was forced on the industry by environmentalists and government regulation, and IMO---they are now too fast for a dirt bike. The tracks got faster because of it, and I bet that is a disadvantage for the 2-stroke too. Still, I had not ridden in almost 20 years---and I picked up a 2019 YZ250 2-stroke. I am not selling out to the environmental commies. :)
Sweet mate just binged a few of your shows now i better bloody Sub! Wow the quality of your work i ride a 83xl250r trying to finish of for rego in Aus few bits missing so ive just retro fitted some modern led lights and gauges.
21:50 wait a minute.... Did that smallest Honda say 50 on the swing arm? I thought that would have been a 60 in 83? I seem to remember Honda making 60 for 1 year in the early 80's.
I want to make and sell an alarm clock that sounds like a 2-stroke MX bike racing, and gives off a puff of burnt castor oil. If you need an alarm clock and love the best era of the sport, can you think of a better way to wake up each morning? :)
MY BROTHER HADA ABOUT CLAPPED OUT 89 CR 250 (ON poor highschool budget, no help) , it had a CLAPED OUT, PISONC, CLUTCH AND TIRES WERE SHOT, A BUDY GAME OVER WITHA A BEAUTIFUL 93 yz 250, IN A STRAIT LIKE IT WAS LIKE A 125 WITH A WIDE POWERPAND VS A ROKETSHIT 250, BOT WAS THE YS GUY MAD!!!!!!!!!!!!, night and day ,
By 1981 the Elsinore GP was no longer the most well known race in America and no longer had the cache it had enjoyed in 1972. A decade of on-track success by the red machines meant the CR brand was higher profile than the Elsinore name and it made more sense to drop it from the name.
@@TheMotocrossVault make sense. To bad such beautiful unique name. Even Lake Elsinore is not nice any more 😔. I when there few months ago....really sad place.
@@disyokerr I have never been there, (Michigan here), but I could imagine what you are saying. The decay in the USA is said to be "progress", where we can only be "equal" to trash.
