Thanks for bringing to the world the tale of Hang Li Poh, which today has been largely accepted as more legend than historical fact. According to my research, the Baba Nyonyas trace their ancestry to the Hokkien seafarers from Fujian Province. The seafarers (all men) established satellite families by marrying the locals. While they were able to stamp their culture on the locals, one thing they are unable to pass on - because they are often absent - is the Hokkien language. While the men were away to run their mercantile trade, the women they marry raised their children in the local language, resulting in an entire group speaking a creolized Malay known as Baba Malay, a dialect of Malay peppered with words in Hokkien. They are the Melaka Peranakans. About a century after, a different wave of Hokkien settlers arrived. With the fall of the Ming Dynasty, and the upheavals surrounding the arrival of the Manchu's Qing Dynasty in Fujian Province, the Hokkiens voted with their feet and became 17th century "boat people". Unlike the mercantile seafarers, these refugees arrived with womenfolk, children and livestock. As they were numerous in numbers, they were able to keep their language. But not their cooking. Cut off from China, they improvised and created their own cuisine. They are the seed of Hokkien language in Penang. Depending on where in Fujian Province they come, they speak a Hokkien dialect with Malay loanwords. The third wave of Hokkien immigrants arrived in the 18th century. They are regarded as the latecomers (in Hokkien, Sinkhaek, meaning new guests), to differentiate them from the oldcomers (the Laokhaek, the old guests). The Oldcomers are the Peranakan, who by then have established themselves in the local mercantile trade. They are the Old Money, and this is reflected in the flourishing of their culture, particularly in the 2nd half of the 18th century, fueled by prosperity from tin mining. I am working against the tide to prevent Penang Hokkien from dying out completely, at least within my lifetime, with free online lessons on Memrise, as well as free online dictionary www.penang-traveltips.com/dictionary/index.htm and Facebook group.
My grandpa (hokkien speaker, i did not meet because of the khmer genocide) probably arrived a century ago in Cambodia, never taught my mom and her sister his native language, i'm still wondering why, laziness, not enough time to teach or don't know how to or maybe it was way to erase his past and start a new life. The only thing i got is a picture from him. Many of us cambodians have a void, a disconnection with our ancestors due to our country's past, luckily i still have family ties there unlike others.
Really liked the video! Thanks for giving the world knowledge about my culture. And yes, sadly the hokkien language is indeed dying in my home country of Malaysia. I can see that a lot of my friends choose to communicate in mandarin over their mother tongue which is mainly caused by schools which strictly discourages our mother tongue dialect and also the lack of application in real life where their parents would choose to speak mandarin at home. It's actually a very big problem but people tend not to notice it. Anyways, there is a reason why hokkien fried mee and hokkien prawn mee came to be. Hokkien people really love dark soy sauce (thicker version of soy sauce and also know as kicap manis in Malaysia and Indonesia) which is very noticeable if you're familiar with hokkien cuisine. So, someone decided to stir fry thick noodles with lard, pork and dark soy sauce. Given the chance, you can try out char kway teow which is another hokkien cuisine which is similar to the hokkien fried mee but with a different type of noodle. As for hokkien prawn mee, hokkien people usually live near coastal area which gives them access to a lot of seafood like prawns which ultimately lead to the creation of hokkien prawn mee
Thanks so much for your kindness in giving it a shot and in your remarks. It's always a treat for me to hear comments like yours. I'm starving now....but our governor just re-closed all restaurants and bars today. There's a few Hokkien places here in LA. I could really go for some Hokkien fried me right now. Thank again!
Thankyou so much. I enjoyed also the Brit accents thrown in. I'm a British Buddhist monk who has moved around Penang, Malasyia KL, Malaka, Singapore , Thailand and now in South Philippines in a Chinese temple where they mainly speak Minnan, Mandarin , Philippine Hokkien... so all this is very interesting information and supportive study. Much appreciated. Gratitude and blessings my friend
@@ChinaHistoryPodcast I'm definitely exploring.. really useful for me, well described and researched. [ ah.. Singapore name origin thing... I saw that it was a cause of discussion in a comment. Perhaps the Singa bit comes from Singha pura . Lion as in Singhala, Sri Lankan. Singha beer in Thailand. I saw 'The English language name Singapore comes from its Malay name Singapura, which is believed to have been derived from Sanskrit meaning "Lion City". Singa comes from the Sanskrit word siṃha (सिंह), which means "lion", and pūra (पुर) means "city" in Sanskrit and is a common suffix in many Indian place names.' but thats just Wiki-Googling . No offence - just curious ] Really appreciate the scope of your work , please keep it up
Thank you fr.the hearts of our Hokkien peoples for your historical presentation. Our forefathers came fr.China to British Singapore & Br.Malaya with only the clothes they were wearing & Hope in their baggy trousers & will to succeed.
Thanks very much my Hokkien friend. More stories have not been told than were told about the courage and achievements of people like your forefathers. I hope you will enjoy some of my other programs. Going on ten years and more than 250 hours of content about Chinese history.
Not all came with just their clothes, some were wealthy that moved there because they were sent because of arrange marriages or to escape turmoil during the warlords period.
@@zeiitgeist true that. both my paternal and maternal great-grandfathers have established wealth before settling their children here. The world war levelled the playing field thereafter, sadly.
I'm technically hokkien from Nanan. Now 3rd generation living in malaysia but know nothing about my own root practically. I knew my origin from Nanan because of words that carved onto tomb of my (passing) grandfather! Thanks for this very informative sharing!
In the context of early Singapore (circa 1950s -1980s). Live on the streets were controlled by gangs of majority Hokkiens and which were categorized to by the police as illegal secret societies. They were used by the merchants as muscle or as backing during a dispute resolution negotiations. (Most of the Senior officers and police detectives are Baba (Peranakan Chinese)and policemen in uniform are majority Malay. The Teochews businessmen (who have the monopoly on the fresh seafood trade) for protection, would prefer to hobnob with the police inspectors). Also most Taoist Temples are run by the Hokkiens who are also temple mediums. These temples survived on donations which could be substantial.
Fun fact: 马六甲 if pronounced in Hokkien is exactly like Malacca (Ma' Lak' Ka) It is a sad situation that this culture and language is dying out and to see it dying away is the most painful. In Malaysia one of the reasons people stop speaking Hokkien is too because of the instillment of Hokkien is a rude language and the dominance of Cantonese due to local radio stations are all Cantonese based. There are Cantonese even said that if one does not know Cantonese that person is not Chinese. This again impacted the Hokkien community and is really sad to see. The fact being Hokkien preserved the oldest form of Chinese is very insulting at least for me
Thailand's Chinese mainly migrate from Chaozhou, and Hokkian mainly to SG. Thailand's greatest king was King Taksin. His Taechew parent migrated to Thailand during the Manchu Chein Long Dynasty. King Taksin took back Thailand after failing to the Burmese. In return, the Thai general was betrayed by beheaded Taksin. But that cannot stop the Chinese power. Chinese take control of the economy wherever they settle. The Chinese way of life is hard work, soft power, and modesty. Americans should learn from the Chinese principle. To get healthy and wealthy, the only way is hard work, not hard war.
The Royal Ly family tree in Vietnam was not Fujian. Emperor Ly Thai To's grandfather was a mandarin in Hebei of the Shatou later Jin dynasty. His son Li Zhuang An (Lý Thuần an) later migrated to Bắc Ninh, Annam.
It is really a lot to the degree that even chinese-indo (who still speak hokkien) think that it is indonesia word. Wkwwk It is the same case applied to 90's popular chinese/cantonese song (e.g teresa teng, etc). A lot of it are from Indonesia song, but they only used its melody and with different lyric. People think it is really a chinese song with chinese melody, but the truth is otherwise haha.
One another note of kay-chap. Indonesian is the only one who had sweet soy sauce and we called it ketchup. When we called ketchup, we mean the sweet soy sauce.
If you ever heard Hokkian dialect, it would sounds very old indeed, comparing to Mandarin. I had read somewhere that Hokkian language was the most similar to Old Chinese, Cantonese to Middle Chinese.
One day I hope to find an expert on this exact subject and interview them for a CHP episode. Even to non-Chinese speakers, this can be quite interesting. Thank you Henry.
On the name of Singapore. It's actually Sanskrit. Modernday Singapore, or Singapura in Malay, is named after an ancient Malay kingdom on the island. The reason the name is Sankrit is because the Malay language is highly influenced by Sanskrit.
Thank you so much. I actually learned that when I started working on my History of Singapore series. Please check it out if you have time: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-m_bIZmfKl-0.htmlsi=BNlVRZL8WYgDOJuQ
Thank you for you fascinating podcast series, especially this mini series on the Hokkien people. I would like to make a comment on the heritage of the first Ly king in VN though. I know that there are credible historical sources that point to Ly That To's Hokkien heritage but there is also evidence that directly contradicts that claim. This is a debatable point. So for the benefit of the doubt, I would have preferred that you'd left Ly Thai To out of this or at the very least, mentioned that he was "possibly" of Hokkien origin.
Thanks Eddy.....I will mention this in the show notes....and later today I will mention this above in the show description. I rely on all of you out there to point out these things (little or not little). I appreciate you pointing this out.
@@ChinaHistoryPodcast Zhao Da originated from Hebei and was a general of Emperor Qin Shihuang, who brought 500,000 Jin people (Zhao, Wei, Han) to conquer and assimilation of Bai Yue tribes south of the Yang River. Bai Yue had more than 500,000 people (Min Yue only than 1,000 people at that times) after the fall of Qin, he claimed to be the king in Guangdong, Guangzhou and northern Vietnam( 甌雒 ) , naming the country Nan Yue 207-137, surname Zhao originated from the Zhao state, so Zhao Da was the Teochew first to become the Yue king in Guangdong, Guangzhou and northern Vietnam.Ancestors of the Teochew people's Zhao(state )people 403BC-222BC, The Zhao people(Teochew) migrated to Fujian(Putian), Guangdong, northern Vietnam, the Bai Yue tribes were assimilated with blood and culture by Zhao people , bringing the family name of the Zhao people (Li, Chan, Zhang, Kwok, Ma..)
Thanks so much Steven. I'm happy you liked this little two-part overview. I hope you will check out some of my other China history material on this channel, including The Chinese Sayings and Tea History Podcast shows. If I could, I'd fly to Malaysia this afternoon. Great country. Great people. Fantastic culture (including food!!). Can't wait for this pandemic to end. See you then!
the word for Gwee Cap (Gwee Sauce) you mention at the very end, is very similar to "Kecap" the Indonesian word for soy sauce, i wonder how is it that in english ketchup is a condiment made from tomatoes, but here its made from soy. 🤔🤔🤔
Yeah, seems strange and by no means is this documented as far as I know. But the original "ketchup" in America didn't have a tomato base as it does now. The tomatoes were added later to this "mystery sauce" that may or may not have come from the famous Hokkien Gwee Sauce. Enough has been said over the years about this possible connection where I thought it was worth mentioning in this episode. Thanks Malvolio.
Yeah, i assume the word kecap was derrived from hokkien (or any south china/immigrant dialect) because it is also called 'kecap' for soy sauce by chinese immigrant who still speak dialect. Based on trading, culture, and culinary article, they agree that western ketchup also derived from the same kecap/kêtsiap soy sauce. But Am curious how ketchup transform into tomato sauce.
Not sure either but during Zheng He's 15th century voyages he helped setup Muslim communities in a few places in and around Cebu. Since he was always departing from Fujian, it's a fair guess to assume they were Hokkien.
Thanks for the presentation. However, I need to point out a few etymological inaccuracies. Hope you don't mind. (1) Hokkien is 'Fujian' in Mandarin, and not 'Fuzhou'. 'Fuzhou' actually translates into Hokkien as HockChiew and refers to another dialect group. A representative dish is HockChew fishballs. (2) Also, 'Singapore' is derived from Sanskrit, and not Chinese. The Hokkien pronunciation sounds closer than the Mandarin pronunciation because the people who did the transliteration were literate in Hokkien. (3) Also, you forgot to mention Amoy Hokkien, one of the three recognized main branches of Hokkien. Amoy Hokkien is the so-called standard variant of Hokkien, spoken in Malacca and Singapore. The Penang and Medan versions lean more towards the Chio Chiu variant. (4) According to the Oxford English Dictionary (last time I checked), 'Ketchup' derives from 'gie chap', 'gie' meaning gourd. The gourd here refers to the tomato. Please don't trust everything you read on Google or Wiki. And help me report the inaccurate findings to Google. Thanks.
Thanks a bunch for the info! Much appreciated and it's always nice to get some real local knowledge and expertise to add to these simple introductions I present. Google's just a search engine, not a website containing articles and info. It's useful for tracking down nice sources. Wiki is useful to me for checking dates, some names and obtaining Chinese characters for certain terms. I feel it's a bit arrogant of you to imply this effort of mine was derived from some Wikipedia entry. Give me at least a little credit. And the OED is not the last word as far as derivations. I don't think those guys know the exact beginnings of ketchup any more than the next scholar. But with time travel, one day we may be able to find out. I'll have to go back and re-listen to the episode re: your point (1). I could have sworn I said what you said. Thanks again.
@@ChinaHistoryPodcast Guess I was wrong about the origins of 'ketchup' all along! I don't think this term is very popular nowadays, but to those who know it, it refers to a sweet sauce used with chee cheong fun （diam cheonn 甜酱）. Alternatively, it refers to another sweet sauce made from papayas or sweet potato. To think I actually told someone to add tomatoes to their sweet sauce. Oh well. With respect to point（1）, 24:53 . Almost drove me nuts trying to find this part！ I don't know of anyone who uses ketchup to mean fish brine but I don't go to the market very often... If you say that people would think you were referring to 'kway chap', a stereotypically Teochew dish. I think Taiwanese cuisine has diverged from Hokkien cuisine quite a bit but one famous dish that both cultures share is 'Lor Bak Png'. In the Taiwanese South they call it 'Bi Go'. I'm not sure how Taiwanese cuisine in LA looks like but I've heard that the Taiwanese bubble tea in California is causing quite a bit of controversy. Perhaps you should do a review of LA restaurants to grow your channel.
A couple of years late but I would like to applaud Teacup Media for his contribution and efforts. It is deeply appreciated. That said, I have to mention that (3) by xxx xxx is spot on. Singapore is the anglicization of Singapura. Singa (in Sanskrit and Malay) translates to lion. Pura (in Sanskrit) translates to city. Thus Singapore means Lion City. My late father was from Singapore.
Kamsiyah lu amo lang Kong ani ho Hokkian eh kosu Bo siew tio Amo lang ani suka Hokkian Kong kau kana Shi uh chin chum Ho peng yew Gua lang tihya kau Chin huahee syok ah..
Thng lang in hokkien or tang Ren in mandarin means Son of Tang Dynasty. Hokkien was the dialect spoken then in China. You can hear some Hokkien words in Korean language eg chum pi, hap seng, li hun. Why? Joseon rulers were vassals of tang emperor.
Han Li-Po had Han bodyguards , locals was mesmerised with them so much that the history syllabus mentions their 'contribution' to the king of Malaya. They ultimately "became" malay warriors only to be debunked by Prof. Khoo Kay Kim much later. This resulted in the removal of all the "Hang Tuah and Co." characters from books and such just because they were of Chinese ancestry. Many of such 'play down' throughout the history.
Hokkien 'Har' Mee actually doesn't make any sense - to me anyway. That's because you've mixed two different dialects in that 3-word name, i.e. Hokkien and Cantonese. In Hokkien it should be called, Hokkien 'Hay' Mee. In Cantonese, it's called, Fookien 'Har' Mein. I'm Malaysian Hokkien and I speak both Hokkien and Cantonese fluently.
請原諒. Yes, I'm mixing up the Cantonese with the Hokkien. Somewhere alone the way, in the Western milieu at least, Cantonese became the one-size-fits-all spelling for the pronunciation of all five main dialect groups. I thank you for your clarification and explanation.
Are the Hokkien really ethnically chinese, aka Han? If they have a different language and culture, shouldn't they be considered a seperate ethnicity from the Han?
I suppose you'd have to look at the DNA on a case-by-case basis to find out the answer. I tested my DNA a couple times and learned I was 99.4% of one certain race. To be honest, I am not a geneticist and probably not qualified to answer that with any authority.
@@ChinaHistoryPodcast on yea sorry. In terms of numbers you're right. But in terms of percentage Singapore has the second highest. Btw thanks for making the videos. I never knew much about my own hokkien heritage. It's a shame I can't speak my native hokkien tongue
