Love these videos, they must take ages to get all of the facts and figures together, ease consider doing one on the history and rolling stock of the Gatwick express
Honestly they were fine until Great Northern got their hands on them. After that refurbishment even the 387's were an improvement. There were no tables, no carpet, no plug sockets, no wifi, no air con and not even any armrests. They were better in WAGN days.
@@moose_ringo9161 I'm very confused. The table seats are still there (with table), and wifi has been fitted. The lack of carpet is a disappointment, I'll admit, but aircon is very difficult (if not impossible) to fit to older MUs.
@@bfapple They removed the tables from the table seats in the GN refurb IIRC. If I'm wrong then I'm sure you're right. However the tables that were there were only small wedge-shaped tables anyway and there were never any seatback tables. They also reduced the amount of 'bay of four' seats. They were fine, but worse than they used to be, and they weren't suited to that sort of work (Cambridge - Kings Cross express) since technology had moved on, not having plug sockets or air con was very unsatisfactory. Therefore I think it was best for them to get electrostars. The WAGN interior had a higher-quality feel (and very nice interior furnishings). I just think, apart from motor noise, they're overrated units and would be better suited to outer-suburban duties.
Everyone was so in love with neoliberal economics in the 1980s and 1990s here in the states and in the UK but as a economic model it certainly made things more complicated particularly in terms of standardization of materials, parts and equipment. I was surprised that prior to the privatization that there were preliminary efforts to break up the various rail services preparing the way. Thanks for the video. I learn so much.
@@Robert-tl2vg You've also found yourself watching a history on trains video, already seems pretty nerdy to me, I for one think the history of mail rail operations in the uk would be a great idea
When they were up in Scotland doing Glasgow-Edinburgh/Edinburgh-Dunblane routes we loved them, was such a strange sensation seeing a London networker speeding up and down.
Maybe they still look good elsewhere, but the GWR 165 and 166 units look and feel awful now. If I'm taking a train on the Wessex line, I'm always disappointed when a Networker shows up. The 158 Sprinter is much more comfortable.
@@-Benedict I recently rode on a GWR 158, their narrow profile means that when travelling with someone else and sitting next to one another, your shoulders and arms are shoved against one another and you have barely any leg room either. The GWR networkers are direly in need of some better maintenance and need improvements in the suspension and ride quality, hopefully the refurbishments they're slowly getting will fix this.
Some issues: Chiltern services did not serve Birmingham until after privatisation and these services use Cl168 "Clubman" units (predominantly). A note that these units (and the class 170/171 Turbostars) are a direct decedent of the Cl165/166 design would have been nice. Crediting the Desiro with fully replacing slam-door stock and not mentioning the more numerous Electrostar units seems strange, particularly since the Electrostar design is also somewhat based on the Networkers (they're unrelated to the Electric Networkers, but do use a bodyshell design derived from the Cl165). I'd hardly call the Networkers a "failure" since, while budgetary issues prevented NSE from fully realising their goals, Networker-derived units do now dominate the former NSE area (with the exception of the South-Western subsector that ordered Desiros instead) and can be found well beyond.
In 1995 (pre-privatisation but post-Networker), the Chiltern region was running an hourly service between Marylebone and Birmingham Snow Hill - along with an hourly stopping service to High Wycombe, an hourly service to Aylesbury via High Wycombe, and a half-hourly service to Aylesbury via Amersham. I believe it was when the Networkers were launched that the service to Birmingham was reinstated.
The picture at 11:12 is mine, I took it from an old train magazine and uploaded it to another website. The magazine quotes it as a "class 481", 4xx-implying a Southern Reigon DC unit. There are no pictures of the class 342, although I think that whatever train they were going to make for Thameslink, was intended to be used on the CTRL, as part of BR's orginal CTRL plan was to run Thameslink trains onto the high-speed line to Ashford.
An informative report, thank you. The networker platform still is a great train, solid and reliable after years of service. The 365 variants (the few that are still running on the KX to Cambridge route) are both fast and comfortable if, perhaps, in need of an internal refurbishment.
They are fantastic units for the most part. Although the 165 /1 units and 166 units are slow when it comes to acceleration. They’ve always been comfortable units at least to me anyway. I have grown up with them. I’m now in my twenties. They were some of the last units built by BR. The 365s designated for the SE division didn’t last long and some came in to service briefly under NSE before hastily being repainted in the similar Connex SouthEastern livery. The last 365s were built in 1995. The last Networker unit in the famous toothpaste livery of red white and blue was unit 465193 which only got repainted in 2007 ! I really enjoy these videos, keep making them !
Who ever designed these units were a genius , tbh, a little upgrade and theyll probably perform better than most new trains given their acceleration speed (tbh they are faster than alot of newer units, definitely faster than electrostars), for example 465 metro cammels are insane when they depart stations. , 365s are great too, idky their in storage when they could be used by another train operating company. Or even have contact shoes reinstalled and brought down south again on third rail . Every ones quick to have the most new train when they could just upgrade some of the already existing ones. It's a waste imo.
it’s not a waste as the operator doesn’t own the trains, the Government does. The privatised railway is a joke as HM Government still pays for the stock and the operators lease them for use. No Tory can explain how this provides better value for the public than running the whole railway themselves. Face it, Network Rail, state owned, Scotrail, state owned, Direct Rail Services, DRS, state owned, Transpennine, state owned, Northern, state owned as it Transport for Wales!
I'm old enough to remember their introduction into service on the Great Western suburban network from Paddington. They replaced the very reliable Class 117 units, which would be cascaded onwards to run on other routes.
thanks for the upload. I love these videos, they really are a joy to watch and the ones I click on fastest, so nice to jump into. a clear & perfectly paced voice, interesting facts and endless classic old footage ♥️ it's heaven
Great video. I know they replaced some of my favourite stock, but I've grown up with the Networkers and I love travelling on them (in the days when I used to travel), personally, I can't really fault them... 99% of the time
I think the footage used at 1:55 was fron a BR training video about flagging an automatic signal or about the different types of couplings when the Class 455's were introduced in the South Central London commuter area
The class 442 unit 2401 is the worlds fastest 3rd rail train at 108 mph on.11th April 1988 I suppose that it will be scrapped just like fastest 4th rail the A Stock pioneer A60 5000-5001 86 mph 1960 outside Rickmansworth during safety brake testing for B R Great Central main line
I was occasionally on security at York BREL and can remember the newly cast fibreglass cab fronts fresh from the moulds , I can remember doing shifts when the works was closing too, as a kid spotting at York I remember the bed pan line finished units lined up as the crews refused to work them ( over single manning I believe)
Pretty sure all the Mk1 derived vehicles were of all-steel construction (albeit separate chassis and body construction) and not wood as stated. But the rest of the video was quite informative and interesting. I have always found the Networker design to be quite pleasing. Certainly a lot more attractive than newer units such as the class 385s! The electric variants make some cool traction sounds as they pull away which lends them some character and they are standing the test of time very well for being 25-30 year old units!
Fantastic video, very useful information indeed. Just had first contact with Networkers through paper adverts to ABB Ad Trans on my country's national rail timetable back cover or page 1. Is a very British front train design complemented by NSE 3 diagonal bands.
There's a lengthy legacy from the Networkers, with the intended replacement of slam door stock in the south eastern and south central divisions- and indeed the LTS route- being achieved later using Electrostars, designs that have a clear lineage via Adtranz from the Networker program.
I don't like how trains are getting more and more standardised. Some companies (like Southern and Greater Anglia) only have 2-3 types of train nowadays. This leads to some allocations that are completely unsuitable for their jobs, like the 387s on Gatwick Express. The idea of having different trains built specifically for their routes appeals to me, and it's just a better idea in general.
Mark 1 stock had steel frames. The original proposal was for a monocoque but unfortunately it was built with heavy underframes and a relatively lightweight body, which was a bit on the flimsy side. The seats were very comfortable.
The GWR 165s are still in use on the Thames Valley branch lines which are off the GWML between Paddington and Reading, Maidenhead to Marlow, Slough to Windsor and Eton Central and Twyford to Henley on Thames, and also services from Reading to Basingstoke, Guildford, Redhill and Gatwick Airport
I've taken 365s between Cambridge and London multiple of times. To be honest, they are mostly alright, but their bodies aren't air-tight enough to pass through tunnels on the ECML at 100mph. Your ears will definitely feel them. 387s are quite better but not perfect, while 700s are absolutely amazing in this regard.
13:12 Ah yeah that Thames turbo unit collided the hst after it went through on red where it should have stopped and let the hst go through before this unit goes through with a clear road ahead
When moved to Britain 13 years ago, thought Northern classe 323 were Networkers due to their quite similar exterior design and prity much the same interiors. By the other hand Class 325 Royal Mail have Networker's fronts but their body frame and technology is clearly Second Generation Mark 3 electric units such as class 319. Classes 332 and 333 highly suggest a modern version of Networker front as a legacy from its futuristic and aerodynamic front design compared to new units with more continental European design not exclusive from Old School BR. Thank you for sharing the video.
Oh Yes Michael Portillo famed for his outlandish attire but certainly loved his trains and it's thanks to him that The Settle and Carlisle line was saved among other achievements
13:38-14:10 I remember the crash at Potter’s Bar Station as I was in London on holiday once, and the line where the crash happened had delayed a lot of trains that day, but it’s was very horrific and a horrible crash.
I remember it as I was living in Cambridge at the time and often travelled to London. The crash meant that all the Cambridge-London trains had to use the longer, slower route to Liverpool Street for quite a while.
The old trains from the 50s and 60s were brilliant! Slam doors were great! You could even get off before the train had physically stopped if you needed to make a quick connection! 😜
Great video but Was the Ladbroke Grove crash really just driver error? This crash was caused by poor placement of signal SN109, poor training, poor management and unfortunate lighting conditions on the day in which Driver Michael Hodder ending up having a SPAD due to SN109 appearing as Amber when it was Red (due to lighting conditions) which resulted in his own death, Driver Brian Cooper (hst) and several passengers, it was an terrible accident and several events leading up to it but its unfair to say it was just driver error as there was lot more to it than just that as highlighted from the investigation
It’s sad to see Britain no longer has her own brands when it comes to building rolling stocks. I am from Hong Kong, and here we still have a substantial fleet of Metro Cammell metro trains in service, and they’re soon to be replaced by Chinese counterparts
hey, really liked this video and got me thinking if you had any thoughts on a video about class 455's and the 456 variant, and how they've been the workhorses of the NSE/Southern/SWT/SWR suburban network since the 80's?
Very, very long story. Too long to describe here I'm afraid. Mainly due to different parts of the network being modernised at different stages of technology development.
If you want a full history of the Networker it would be appropriate to add that the 465's manufactured by BREL had their traction packages replaced with Hitachi traction motors in early 00's when Hitachi were breaking into the UK train industry with the 395 Javelin. The Met-Cam weald units did not need this as the met-cam traction packages were better than BREL ones. The BREL motors did not cut out properly when the controller was returned to run/release and the train used to jolt, which drivers nicknamed "The BREL dance". The main reason the networkers are being phased out is because they do not meet the new disabled access criteria (despite having universal toilets retro fitted) and the ones on Southeastern will soon be replaced/supported by Southwest 707's in 5 car sets.
Just a suggestion; MK1s are not wooden framed. The old 4-SUBs were, and I'm pretty sure the Bulleid-style EPBs were too, but the MK1 EMUs definitely were not. The Clapham disaster involved REP and VEP MK1-Based EMUs so had nothing to do with wooden bodied stock.
Northern rail would do well with a couple of 365s once their upgrades and electrification to more lines out of Leeds are complete, shame to see them out of service
The first words "working quietly behind the scenes" accompanied by an image of a third rail unit slightly threw me. For a long time they didn't work - that's their main problem. For modern rolling stock the third rail units reliability has been poor. Its got better by firstly reallocating some to medium distance work, and secondly by replacing much of the electronics on the BREL manufactured units with a power train from Hitachi - but they still aren't very good.
I managed to see and go into the Class 471 mock-up at Victoria station. Some people thought that the use of the same seats with a spacer between them for first class wouldn't be comfortable for fat businessmen. And, please, the Southern region stock (electric and DEMU) was hinged door not slam door as you could close them by turning the handle or using the slide fitting inside witho9ut slamming, unlike the DMUs on other lines.
that's amazing the slam doors opening and people stepping out just before the train comes to a halt. Nothing like that would be allowed in today's world. I wonder how it became socially acceptable to just step off the train just before it comes to halt.
There were warnings against opening the doors before the train stopped but many people did it all the same, especially at the London terminus to beat the crowds at the ticket barrier or going into the Drain (Waterloo and City line). Injuries were not uncommon - I knew someone who broke their ankle doing just this.
Networkers, especially 365s, are irreplaceable. They are energetic. I don't really know why the BRB has made the government waste their money on ordering newer trains.
Before the Networkers Kings Cross-Cambridge was served by Class 317s, and before them Class 312s which were built in the mid 70s and had slam doors. Before these there was a mixture of DMUs and, mainly at peak times, loco-hauled sets usually using the Class 31. There was a stage where the electrification, and hence the Class 312s, terminated at Royston, and there was a DMU shuttle between there and Cambridge. Before the DMUs and Class 31s the trains were hauled by steam locomotives.
@@roberthill6216 It wasn't. Class 317's were used when the Royston - King's Lynn line was electrified and before that it was class 312's to Royston and then a DMU shuttle from Royston. Before the electrification it was Diesel Loco hauled
