The Hobbit: Battle of Five Armies - SU&SD Review

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26 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 409

@acerumble4991 2 года назад

As an old man who plays WWII wargames, I can attest to the accuracy of Matt's observation. My friends and I have played a game called Squad Leader for 30 years, have innumerable stories, remembrances and reflections on the scenarios played, but except for a small handful of times can honestly say we have no idea which player actually won which particular game. That means, of course, that we all win every time we play

@shutupandsitdown 2 года назад

We love to hear it! x

@jenspoder8322 2 года назад

The same could be said for Combat Commander - Extremely influenced by luck... But oh those stories the game creates

@ximbabwe0228 2 года назад

Do you recommend that or advanced squad leader? Never played either but I am looking for a tactical firearms based rpg

@ivanfamezquita 2 года назад

Best comment I've read in a long time. This is why I love well done thematic boardgames, you always get a new story of the stories/lore that you love.

@blister4walken 2 года назад

Spot on. I have similar experiences with Bolt Action. So many cinematic moments, heroic, hilarious or hopeless. All fun. 😀

@wilsonhuang6542 2 года назад

The first ever SUSD video I ever saw was your review of War of the Ring and it was subsequently the first ever board game I purchased as an adult. This happened during the first lockdown in Melbourne, Australia in 2020. Though it was incredibly daunting learning all of the rules and taking an entire hour to just set up this immense game in a tiny shoebox room, ever so slowly me and my housemate started to forget about the world that was falling apart around us, and got sucked right back into a world of childhood nostalgia trying to get a silly little ring across Middle Earth. I can’t remember how many times we played, or who won which game. All I remember are the heightened emotions that quaked in that room; the crushing despair that ripped through you when a critical battle was lost and an entire game long strategy fell apart before your eyes, or the exhilarating thrill of white knuckled success when you somehow managed to pull off a plan hours in the making by the skin of your teeth. As stressful and frustrating as it was sometimes, this game brought me and my housemate so much fucking joy and a much needed distraction during the long months when we were couped up together during a global pandemic. It helped to keep us sane, and from it bloomed a love and passion for board games that we never thought we would ever have. As sad as I am to hear that this game does not live up to War of the Ring (how could it?), I will forever be grateful to the team behind these games, and to you guys at Shut Up and Sit Down for helping me get through these last few years, and for somehow getting me to look back fondly on my time during lockdown. You bow to no one. Thank you.

@troutwarrior6735 2 года назад

This comment was great to read! Board games brought me too throughout the pandemic.

@MrGearsNTears 2 года назад

Been playing wargames for 10 years and you hit the nail on the head. One of the wargame matches I remember the most fondly, was a game of killteam where I got absolutely bodied. From a purely competitive standpoint, I had bad dice luck early, then failed to adjust to the new table state. But in me and my opponents head? The elite scions of the imperium were tasked to hold the line against the plague ridden husks of nurgle. Equipped with re-breathers and hellguns, their confidence was high. It was shattered moments after first contact, when accurate fire failed to even slow the laughing bloated warriors. Panic set in amongst the men who continued to fire volley after useless volley into the approaching horde. Men and women began to fall as rusted rounds tore into them, belching forth from filth covered weaponry. Near the end, two remained. There fire finally began to cut down some of the enemy, the sheer weight of wounds splitting them at joints. But it was not enough. The line fell, and the plague swept on. Much more fun that way.

@eadweard2214 2 года назад

Absolutely, I agree with that

@TorIverWilhelmsen 2 года назад

Yes: War games are about the simulation, not the end result. Or as the famous Canadian war-ga-musicians Tank-Rush said: "The point of the journey is not to arrive" (Prime Mover)

@eadweard2214 2 года назад

@@TorIverWilhelmsen mhm

@mattball8622 2 года назад

That outro is your finest work. Genuinely made me a little teary. The fact that humans are made of stories, and that we just constantly find and explore ways to tell them is something that absolutely should be celebrated.

@brandoncallender826 2 года назад

I'm not gonna lie.. I was also teary, silently mouthing "I love this man."

@TomCantDance 2 года назад

And who has a better story than Bran the Broken?

@btmurphy88 2 года назад

Damn Matt, that went from a genuine critique of Battle of Five Armies to an even more genuine discussion on gatekeeping and inclusion in this hobby. Absolutely loved it and I'm so happy to have people like you as a public face of board gaming.

@Prismet 2 года назад

The young has always excluded the old for being obsolete and the old have always considered the young to be bumbling idiots. To place discrimination based on age squarely on the shoulders of the old is rather ignorant of the human condition.

@alannash2778 2 года назад

@@Prismet I would recommend not using absolutes, especially when inferring that someone is being ignorant. I agree Matt's bit about old men and their war games went on a bit too long but it only reinforced that it was coming from Matt's personal experience. Your comment would make more sense as a response to the video rather than as a reply to Brian Murphy who was able to accurately read between the lines and see that Matt was speaking about gatekeeping and acceptance in board gaming.

@adnanilyas6368 2 года назад

You guys helped me and a friend get War of the Ring (first video I saw from SUSD!) and I have to say, the stories that my friend and I made while playing were the best part. Talking about the time(s) my friend wasn’t paying attention and let me take a fort without a fight (because, it turns out, one CAN merely walk into Mordor!), or the time when I was able to guide Frodo & Sam all the way up to the steps of Mount Doom, only for Gondor to fall just before Frodo could destroy the ring, those tales are what really make the game compelling for me. And it’s a shame that you don’t see quite the same potential here in the Battle of Five Armies.

@jaytee63236 2 года назад

I had a totally different experience. Those older men were (and often still are) the most welcoming people I've ever met in my life. They are usually terribly happy that you're interested in their very niche hobby, and more than thrilled to tell you about it and welcome you to the table.

@SebastianKraus42 2 года назад

But his critique wasn't about how they behave when somebody wants to play their games with them. It's about people that play different games

@jaytee63236 2 года назад

@@SebastianKraus42 Again, my experience has been that those guys would be happy to talk about any game, regardless of what game it was. I don't think it's fair for Matt denigrate an entire group of people (older men who play wargames, in this case) based on a few bad experiences that he personally may have had. If it weren't for those "grognards" as they are often called, this hobby wouldn't exist at all.

@claytrongo 2 года назад

I 100% agree. I think there might be a little prejudice hiding in projection in that comment.

@jaytee63236 2 года назад

@@Spearca That's understandable, but it's not a good reason to paint an entire group of people with such broad strokes. Generalizations and prejudices hurt everyone, even if they are based in lived experiences.

@christopherblackburn6811 2 года назад

As a long time watcher of SUSD I have gone on a journey of self discovery of what it means to be human in part through the medium of board games. However I want it clarified that my thing is more important and better than everyone else’s thing. Thanks for all the hard work.

@shutupandsitdown 2 года назад

Correct

@masseffectlvr321 2 года назад

So true about the relationship between war gaming and role playing games. I do a lot of war gaming, a lot of miniature games, and the story I imagine behind the mechanics brings me back for another round of play just as much as the experience playing. My brother and I have played war of the ring dozens of times and we always talk about it in the language of role playing. Two guards holding a siege against a full army isnt just a statistical abnormality of the dice, its brave defenders cutting down hordes of orcs to hold the gates closed. It's an engaging way to think about the game, and makes the fickle nature of luck based systems easier to swallow. It can be easy to forget that any game's rules are just ways to help players interface with a simulation. Theoretically, when I sit down to play a game Im not a "player", im a cowboy or a thief or a politician or a merchant or an investigator; and I'm not rolling dice and drawing cards, I'm searching for clues, gathering resources, testing my skill against my rival, or running down a secret passageway. How well a game helps me suspend my disbelief is a big marker of how well I'm going to enjoy the game. It's dissapointing to hear BoFA might not live up to its predecessor in that regard, but I'll likely grab it anyway at least to have it in my collection. Thanks for the great review as always

@goodlookingcorpse 2 года назад

I'm the same way with Blood Bowl (which I play online). I'm always swearing at my players or praising them when 'they' do something right or wrong, even though I know it's just dice rolls.

@wolfgame_tutorials 2 года назад

This is a fantastic comment! I am glad you took the time to write this out.

@abhikan7654 2 года назад

13:33 "Secretly, war games may have a lot more in common with role-playing games." DnD litterally based off the war game chainmail:

@rmsgrey 2 года назад

Yeah, funny that a genre started by a game that set out to be a war game without the board should have a lot in common with wargames... Who could have seen that one coming, eh?

@apollolinaire2607 2 года назад

The delivery of the line "The Bobbit, Little Bobbit in the Big City" made me cry I was NOT ready!

@Skycroft1000 2 года назад

I think you're absolutely right about much of the joy of wargaming being in the texture of exploring the setting and the kind of fanficcy alternate history you collaboratively create and not just the tactics and strategy. For exactly that reason, Battle of the Five Armies feels too halfway to be good - still too complex and fiddly for a fun strategy game afternoon, but not deep enough to immerse yourself into the Legendarium like you can with War of the Ring.

@eadweard2214 2 года назад

That's exactly what's so great about it. The fanficcy part make it all the better.

@DrMcFly28 2 года назад

4:04 Matt saying "untold grief" is looking the happiest I have ever seen him

@marrioman13 2 года назад

Really driving the Chris Morris vibes

@davidmoore1253 2 года назад

Needs to be in an susd out of context video

@jonathoncampbell6813 2 года назад

I love the connection that Wargames are so similar to RPG's. Honestly, it's a good reminder that D&D originally sprung out of wargaming and despite 5e's focus accessibility and narrative potential, story and choice may have always been a part of that equation. Maybe that's what we all really want in a game: The ability to make choices in a fictional game space that alter that world and make us feel important, smart, or badass.

@metallsnubben 2 года назад

Though I think the difference is wargames put a bigger focus on being "consistent as a game". And I'd actually really like an RPG that leaned into that! With DnD typically having much more social interactions nowadays, why is there no "tactical minigame" aspect for it, instead of single die rolls or "just roleplay it" And many indie RPG's that claim to put equal weight on combat and talking, usually just do that by removing systems from combat too. Make more systems! I want to see a courtroom drama RPG with complex random tables for the psyche of the judge!

@jonathoncampbell6813 2 года назад

@@metallsnubben I suppose it's possible to have rules and tables to roll on for social encounters in DND. You could run a Parliamentary Debate as a skill challenge. "Give me Persuasion to convince the audience, an insight check to determine what your opponent is up to and a performance check for your witty barb to land." You could even give each side a pool of will points determined by their wisdom scores, their prestige or notoriety, and how long they've been in power. I have seen systems with mechanics for that: VtM 5e with social combat mechanics. Blades in the Dark pits you against different factions which will have higher or lower opinions of you or the party. There are whole jobs to do in BitD that are social in nature. Additionally, a particularly enterprising DND DM could also make up those random tables, if they wanted and if the group was into that kind of game. Personally, I swing the other way: Blades in the Dark, Monster of the Week, and Kids on Brooms all get a lot of mileage out of slimmer mechanics in combat and often even less in social situations. I fear that too many rules on social situations would spoil my fun, not allow me to tell the stories I want to and might not have my fellow players be as invested in the story. Still, my fun might not be your fun. Happy Gaming all the same! I bet there's a few more people looking for "social mini-game" mechanics in DND. Check Reddit. It never hurts.

@beebsman4331 2 года назад

War of the ring was the first SU&SD video I ever saw! Watched it countless times since then. And my wife and I still play it regularly. We love the wonderful story it never fails to tell!

@jeffreymonsell659 2 года назад

Their War of the Ring video was what got me into board gaming.

@jerome8340 2 года назад

8:30 thanks for waking my dog up who was sleeping peacefully. 15 mins of utter chaos while she searched for the ball that didn't exist.

@laurij115 2 года назад

This took an emotional turn, loved the conclusion talk, here's to another great ten years!

@MrTominous 2 года назад

The Argably on paper bit made me laugh more than it had any right too.

@TheLemonFox 2 года назад

The automated subtitles for the bit where Matt talks about wargames and rpgs had instead of "rolled dice" said "Robb Dice" and now all I can picture is a guy called Robb introducing randomness into any game he comes across.

@svachalek 2 года назад

I wanna roll right now I’m Robb Dice and I came to get down

@drasher25 2 года назад

War of the Ring is one of our favorite games. Battle of the Five Armies is an evolution of the expansion for the first edition of War of the Ring, and improved nicely on the ideas from that. I wasn't initially sold on B5A, but it has really grown on me over time. It's another spin on the WotR system, not quite as deep or expansive, but very enjoyable in its own way. The game plays out as a race for the Shadow to win before the Free Peoples heroes come out and get rolling. I think the combat system adds some nice tactical crunch. Pretty much the only point of this review I agree with is that the damage counters are crap, but this is easily remedied by using small dice to track damage instead. The Fate of Erebor expansion for War of the Ring adds some nice twists to that game, making the DEW line strategy less viable and actually making an attack on the east coast a reasonable option for the Shadow. It is fun to play B5A and WotR sequentially, with addition of the Fate of Erebor expansion being a consequence of a shadow victory in B5A. I would suggest that anyone who enjoys WotR, especially if you'd like something a bit quicker to play, should consider giving B5A a try.

@666lupine666 2 года назад

@5:00 "it's the shape-shifting murder-bear MJOR-BJORN !!" sometimes I forget to remember how completely anime Tolkien was.

@MentatOfDune 2 года назад

"How wrong they were" - That's interesting. I've personally never seen that "looking down on" from wargamers (simulation, hex'n'counter), ever. I've found that wargamers are often very open to new-blood joining that aspect of the hobby because they know that without new customers we wont likely see the mass of new games coming in from the like of GMT, Compass, DVG etc. The story telling aspect of wargames is probably the primary focus of most wargames. It's why so may games and scenarios are often unbalanced as the attempt is not only to simulate what may have happened but to see the various narratives play out.

@FinetalPies 2 года назад

It's not an assumption I would make aboot old wargamers in general, but I have absolutely seen it.

@jaytee63236 2 года назад

This has been my experience too, Wayne. I'm sad to see SUSD making such broad prejudicial generalizations like this.

@deusex3124 2 года назад

Was not expecting such on point and quite profound commentary about the nature of wargaming and board games in general. Excellent stuff.

@willnash7907 2 года назад

Actually, in terms of realism, the wound token system making your armies collapse at a point of critical mass is how classical and medieval armies fell apart because they suffered most of their loses during routs when their organisation fell apart or their morale failed at their breaking point.

@travismorton9727 Год назад

I watched this last night, and have had your voice saying "The Bobbit: Little Bobbit in the Big City" going through my head all day. You did this. 😂

@PeterIsATeacher 2 года назад

13:55 "wargames have a lot more in common than you might expect with roleplaying games. Maybe wargames are just an exercise in collaborative storytelling..." YES. This is it Matt! I play that annoyingly pricey plastic behemoth of a game called warhammer that swallows wallets every turn it makes, but that's the draw to games like these. It's not so much chess, as it is a reenactment, even if its a fictional one. It's about "our little dudes" doing things and getting things done. From a character doing a last stand against a wave of enemies, to a tiny underdog taking out a leader with the luck of a dice throw. I love your realizations and explorations in this video, excellent work!

@Samantha_yyz 2 года назад

Man I was not expecting to get a bit emotional from a SU&SD review, but Matt you really did it! Good points about the game, good points about the core of what we have really are, great to have you here with us till now and amazing to have you with us into the future!! For a second I thought you were announcing you were going to retire and move on to new things, cuz you have been at this so long. Really glad you still enjoy this after so many years!!

@Sihoiba 2 года назад

It's the things like that section from Matt that really elevate what SU&SD do for the hobby and in their videos, podcasts and everything else! Well said.

@DetectiveMekova 2 года назад

Amazing observation. I love all kinds of games ranging from Axis and Allies, to Mystic Vale to Tanto Cuore, DnD, and Settlers of Catan. The main thing that bridges the gaps between those games is the fact that we all sit around a table, floor, or even bed and pretend to be someone, and somewhere else for an hour or two or five. It's the peak form of escapism, combining the social dynamics of conversation with the engaging worlds we create and interact with. It's beautiful. This hobby is wonderful.

@RCarlson01 2 года назад

Is there a plethora of tokens bulging in your trouser pocket, or are you just "Happy as a Bobbit" to play "The Battle of the Five Armies"? LOL

@magnusthereddidnithingwrong 2 года назад

Man, you really got me interested in seeing how SU&SD would review honest-to-god wargame. Either something super popular like 40K proper, or something niche like Star Fleet Battles

@cirthador1453 2 года назад

Love your videos and LOTR. I have rewatched your War of the Ring review 30 times over.

@gesgun7934 2 года назад

Hey this guy is first

@Kieran66 2 года назад

@@gesgun7934 hey he's not lol

@cirthador1453 2 года назад

@@gesgun7934 Sadly, I was 4th. 1st to comment though.

@saltysnot 2 года назад

lmao I laughed so hard at the "someone else's trouser pockets" part of the video

@billie_the_birdie 2 года назад

I grew up on The Hobbit but completely agree. Tolkien noped out of writing Battle if the Five Armies so this feels very arch as a game. But Bilbo uses the ring so often in the latter half of The Hobbit that I think a hidden movement game is where it's at

@Sammo212 2 года назад

to be fair, it was basically a children's story so it makes sense why it wasn't exactly fleshed out very much. I think it tonally fits in with the rest of the story.

@billie_the_birdie 2 года назад

@@Sammo212 agreed. It would have been totally inappropriate to write out the battle. I was saying more that the game missed an opportunity here

@Oliver_Oboes_N_Climbs 2 года назад

What a wonderfully rich video. Over the few years that I've been watching your channel, it's been joyous to watch SU&SD grow to be even better at what you do best: welcome, inform, entertain, and often give pause for thought in a very heartfelt way. Just as war games may actually be about a shared experience of roleplaying in a deeply beloved world, SU&SD reviews are always so much more than consumer advice (and all the better for it). I'm still thankful for the card games video in which you recommended No Pun Included, who have their own take on the great qualities mentioned above. I continue to love watching both channels. Now, in turn, NPI are highlighting other reviewers that they love. Sums up how great this community can be and how there is space for everyone

@cloudkitt 2 года назад

That silent "no it works" gesture after the bath metaphor was perfect 😅 (14:10)

@lorcannagle 2 года назад

Another wargamer saying that Matt was spot-on with his wargaming observation. I'm an old school BattleTech player and my friends and I are trying to rebuild the game's popularity in Dublin after the big boost the game has had in visibility thanks to the kickstarter and computer games. We held a player meetup recently and the newer people who had little experience of the game all loved how the granularity and detail gave you the feeling of a personal story of the guy in the cockpit of that particular 'Mech. I even said that night that the game is a fantastic vehicle for storytelling!

@rburt3 2 года назад

Hi Lorcan! I stopped scrolling because I recognized your name as I am also an old Battletech player. Hopefully the new boxes and KS help boost your efforts!

@lorcannagle 2 года назад

@@rburt3 It's looking good so far, we had 10 people for our first meetup, 5 new people and 5 regular/semi-regular people from my group. And that was with another 4-5 people who had to beg off at the last minute for various reasons. We've got another one coming up in 2 weeks and a con the week after (And planning has begun on a June meetup too) so hopefully that will help us build up momentum and we might try doing a tournament at a con in October.

@hjorhrafn 2 года назад

Came for the review, stayed for the uplifting message.

@Klamev 2 года назад

As a tabletop enthusiast the ending hit very differnet. Thank you for more then just "reviews".

@pip.turner 2 года назад

Loving the new animation, I'd kill to have that pear's vibes

@Kelfuma 2 года назад

Thorin’s Mighty Strokes got him banned from public playgrounds - I laughed so hard at that joke. Was not expecting that.

@vzuzukin 2 года назад

I love your camera angles in LOTR, DUNE, and other *epic* reviews! I love how you guys stoop down to the board to emphasize the grandeur and scale of these games

@shutupandsitdown 2 года назад

Thanks so much!

@LordBaruch 2 года назад

I agree with Matt’s analysis: I think there’s a reason D&D was directly descended from fantasy war gaming.

@claytrongo 2 года назад

I'm curious as to the assertion that war gamers would look down on other gamers. Maybe I'm lucky, but I have very seldom encountered a board gamer who is anything but happy to see others enjoying games, no matter what they are.

@deathtoallturkeys 2 года назад

Thank you Matt. As a Magic: the Gathering player I used to get really stingy about the Pokémon card game (grumble it's for kids grumble it's not challenging enough grumble it's just a knock off MtG), until I played it with a housemate who had been collecting for a few years and was just getting about to trying to play the game. The game did little for me, and I was ready to use this experience as a reinforcement of how right I was and how much better Magic is, until I asked my friend how he enjoyed it (already planning his conversion) and he had the biggest grin on his face as he told me how and why he had had the most amazing time and asked me to play again soon. Is Magic more complicated and strategic? I don't know because I haven't played enough Pokémon but I think it probably is. But I have so much fun playing Magic, and my friend has so much fun playing Pokémon and that's the beautiful thing about those games. I love SUSD because I love your funny skits, because I usually agree with you guys on whether a board game is fun or not, but most of all because of your passion and love for board gaming. These videos remind me why I love the table top gaming hobby every time I watch them and I'm very thankful for them.

@DCAMM720 2 года назад

I think it's interesting how the hobby has changed so much. Now days, I'd much rather approach the older gentlemen playing wargames than I ever would the younger audience playing more "simple" games. The former is most of the time far nicer and more welcoming. Anyway. War gaming really is role playing. I'm somewhat active in Warhammer and I swear 99% of the excitement is players pretending to be in their army whether it be savage Orks or giant Imperial Knights.

@The_Blunicorn 2 года назад

For some reason the line '...got smashed in the head with a brick' just took me out, why are you guys so funny?

@dynomite8561 2 года назад

I first came across this channel when watching your Terra Mystica review and I've never looked back. Your conclusion was touching. While I'll probably not play this game I think the reviews on this channel give me a great reflection of what to expect. Excellent review. Thank you. For example the fiddleness you point out draws me away but, the review of 1812: Invasion of canada drew me in. I love that whole series.

@charliek5964 2 года назад

Can agree: wargames let you tell good stories. Wonder if SUSD will ever cover a COIN game or Paths of Glory? Also agree: board games are for all. It's just a case of finding the right ones for you.

@Pengi_SMILES 2 года назад

I would love them to put their big boy pants on and tackle a COIN. It might help to show people that they actually aren't that inaccessible- maybe when the Mars revolt one comes out?

@FearoftheDomoKun 2 года назад

@@Pengi_SMILES They've reviewed Fire in the Lake and A Distant Plain, and talked about Pax Pamir and Labyrinth.

@PitterPatter20 2 года назад

I'm more into wargames than any other genre in the hobby and I've always seen them as story generators. When I play a game like World War 1 I'm not just thinking about the best odds on the combat results table, I'm thinking about how the heroic Frenchmen going over the top are throwing themselves at the Germans in the hopes that they can do enough damage to distract them and slow down the advance into the Russian heartland. When I play A Distant Plain I'm thinking about the slowly crumbling government trying desperately to maintain order over an increasingly unstable country. My biggest gripe against the Leader franchise is how disconnected the missions feel from each other without a more solid overarching system that can explain the significance of this next air raid. Wargames are great because the stories they tell are about the fate of nations, with countless numbers of people clashing in epic battles. That's what makes it special to me.

@moomoo506 2 года назад

Matt’s ace conclusion here of wargames as RP made me instantly realize that his cool big hair is in actuality just an extended receptacle for his cool big brain.

@Locnar2570 2 года назад

You have hit the nail on the head here. What I love about War of the Ring and this game is that we are building our own version of the story.

@Telruin 2 года назад

First edition of Warhammer 40k was a roleplaying game. You had the army vs army battle bit. But you also needed a game master.

@Hennu_TRM 2 года назад

Makes sense to me. I play Pathfinder and I pretend to be an Elf and roll dice and kill monsters and have a good time. I do basically the same thing when I play War of the Ring (except for then I get to be the bad guys half the time as well). I like the narrative aspect of it and that's why War of the Ring and Dune are two of my favorite games. However, I don't know if that's universally true. I think of my brother, with whom I am playing most of the many games of War of the Ring I have played, and how he is not interested in playing rpgs. I think we play the same game but for somewhat different reasons and we enjoy it in different ways. Nothing wrong with any of that. Just remember how ever deep your revelations are about the meaning of life or war games and why you enjoy them know that someone else may approach the same game for very different reasons.

@martinkremer412 2 года назад

Just great content. Greetings from Germany. Fan for many years.

@lancesteel5358 2 года назад

A similar well practiced air of superiority can also be found in some older tipplers who when challenged with a craft cocktail of their favorite spirit will dismissively chuckle and educate everyone in earshot that the old way to drink the product is neat in a glass, or just perhaps, with a few drops of water or a large cube. The old guard may limit their options in a purist mindset, as self-appointed keepers of the flame, but that is not only unfortunate when considering what they could be experiencing, but also annoying for those around them to have to listen to their arbitrary bluster.

@killercookie6195 2 года назад

Couldn't agree more with the comment on wargames being more of an effort in collaborative storytelling. And I feel that actually many players could benefit from this realization and not take some games so seriously (this also extends to tabletop miniature wargames, such as Warhammer, Infinity and Co).

@stevejakab274 2 года назад

Role playing games (specifically, the original Dungeons and Dragons) originated as a spinoff from the Chainmail war game, so it makes sense that you'd think that war games feel like RPGs. They both have the same ancestral DNA.

@onewholeegg 2 года назад

The visual gags are immaculate and wholly on another level

@Seb0788-n5y 2 года назад

Damn Matt, that ending was right in the kokoro, it made me feel joy and nostalgia. Thanks for that.

@Timmahist 2 года назад

Best Matt review. Right in the feels too

@kasperv967 2 года назад

Agreed on your take about wargames! Treating Battletech as a storytelling device with a chance for dramatic twists from the dice is very satisfying.

@utahman06 2 года назад

From the point you mentioned the bats forward, for some reason I could not figure out why you kept talking about “Bat Level 5 Armies”. FINALLY at the end dawned on me it was Battle of the Five Armies 😂😂😂

@goodlookingcorpse 2 года назад

You forgot to add "...and 30-year old men, also playing the My Little Pony collectible card game".

@GavinAnderegg 2 года назад

I nearly did a spit take at "argably on paper". Great review as always!

@indeans48 2 года назад

I read the designer’s blogs about this game that were written leading up to it’s release, and the funny part is that essentially stated that all of the criticism here about the story not being as strong as LotR were challenges for them to develop. This series really plays as the ultimate “What if” sandbox for Tolkien, but you have to really get creative when the characters or factions in question have so little written about them in the official lore.

@MrDirtydaves 2 года назад

I grew up around wargamers. My dad was a founding member of the club that was still going to this day last I checked. I moved back to the area a couple of years ago and decided to meet up with the club. It was fine but it did feel a little exclusive(and several of the guys had known me since I was a baby, they used to game at our house). I remember telling my dad that if they didn’t get some younger blood in the hobby, it’s going to go away.

@jimb9967 2 года назад

That was very sweet. A friend bought war of the ring and I’m very lucky he chose me as the shadow to his free people. He sent your review to get me prepared, we are now two games in and loving it. Subscribed, looking forward to seeing lots more of your thoughts on games :)

@kavreb9672 2 года назад

Wonderful, wonderful thoughts. Got the old eye a bit misty even.

@MarkCMG 7 дней назад

Thanks for the video! "Comparison is the thief of joy." -- Teddy Roosevelt

@st0ox 2 года назад

The older guys in Germany actually don't play a lot of WW2 games, because of all the bad memories, but I can understand why older British people like the setting, they were on the right side of history and won. I wonder if this is the reason German Game devs came up with the Euro games (not exclusively, of course, other Countries Game Devs did it too, but in Germany you really don't find a lot of War Games designed or played to this day and this is coming from a country that invented the original "Kriegsspiel" developed by the Prussian army in the 19th century). But War of the Ring is popular in Germany. Fantasy war games still work out fine here.

@GamesMadeEasy 2 года назад

I love War of the Ring and I completely agree about the story you build from each game is more important than who wins. I loved your review and very personal explanation about why you do what you do. Keep up building this wonderful channel.

@beakerkell 2 года назад

That was powerful stuff. Thanks for the quality videos, Matt!

@stevenpremo860 2 года назад

You guys rock, great video. Appreciate what you guys do and love watching your content. Keep it up and looking forward to the next one

@MrKurtank 2 года назад

Congratz, you just got a sub from an old man! Looking forward to following the channel.

@theoutlook55 2 года назад

@17:42, that's the most beautiful part of the review right there.

@marcbennett9232 2 года назад

absolutely spot on about war games. you obviously try to win, but who cares, its more about the "I cant believe that happened!" or "your two goblins lasted how long!" and i use to game at a store, that had the same types of groups, but there was no "looking down on" by anyone. the older gentlemen were just as ecstatic to see the younger kids enjoying the same hobby. they even introduced some of the high school aged patrons to some WW2 games and vise versa.

@arakuss1 2 года назад

I agree war games (at least historic) is about simulating an event or events with mechanics. Sometimes its not balanced because the event was not balanced. What makes a good wargame is how it achieves this. Some of the most simplest of war games can be just as enjoyable as some of the most complex and fiddly. Its about the result of those mechanics achieving that moment when you go "I can't believe that happened and how incredible that was even if I lost." It just has to make sense to a wargamer. Whether it was through the layer of chrome or by just how simple yet real it felt. This is what is true about roleplayers too. Some prefer a very crunchy rule system others prefer a very flexible or simple rp system to achieve that great story telling memory that they will repeat to their kids and other friends of how they killed a dragon. Why most wargames and roleplaying games have randomness is it takes out that calculating part. The old say a plan is only as good as till contact with the enemy is made. As far as those older gentlemen I had the same experience. They were more than willing to show me when I was a young kid the game, explain things and let me join in. I never understood this view of people who said they look down at other games. This included the historical miniature wargamers who often have their children, both sons and daughters, helping out setting things up and moving the miniatures around those massive boards. I believe it always was the younger kids were drawn to other parts of the hobby because it did not seem as complex (which often it isn't) or war not hard to get into. Plus I always believed because they saw older gentlemen playing in it and all the kids their age were playing other games. Which is always odd because I always saw so called older gentleman playing in almost every game in the general board game hobby. Yea I just never experienced that looking down on feeling. They invited me to play and join and were very welcoming. I consider myself more of a Wargamer/Roleplayer more than a general board gamer first because that is where my taste is more, but I have a ton of nonwargame board games.

@HeckleJeckle87 2 года назад

TTRPGs evolved FROM Wargames. So yes, they do have a lot in common. Before he made DnD, Gary Gygax made Chainmail.

@Sotanath86q 2 года назад

Spot on with the roleplay thing. Tabletop army games are at their best when you don't care so much about winning and just enjoy the swings of the narrative.

@joshuamyers7510 2 года назад

Bro, you're description of WOTR was spot on. Now, what I'm about to say is only true if you really love LOTR, and if you really love playing WOTR, which both apply to me. It's less of a game, and more of a Tolkein thrill ride. What if the Fellowship went through Rohan instead of Moria? What if Mordor decimated Minas Tirith before the King returned? When I lose at WOTR, I'm still having a blast because I'm completely hypnotized by the story unfolding before me.

@HeyQuadro 2 года назад

Role playing games and war gaming sharing similarities cannot be more true. In fact, RPG's originally sprouted from wargaming. Those who have played really old war games know how fiddly they can be with rules for distance, line of sight, movement, etc so they would often have a judge be there to make impartial decisions. Over time, these judges would start adding their own quips to the game, such as explaining how a line of swordsmen was devastated by a cavalry charge, or how the King was struck down by a lowly peasant. A hop skip and a jump later, and you get Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson (both avid wargamers) creating Dungeons and Dragons.

@brunswicklord6365 Месяц назад

Completely agree about the wargame observation and the previous comment about Squad Leader. I love wargames but my friend and I will only play historical games in which we have an interest, such as WW2 Normandy, The Pacific Campaign, Waterloo, Blenheim ( What !) Games where honestly we don't care who wins but are a vehicle for conversation about a common interest as we play. And when the dice play rough with us it is easy to assume it was the bullet, shell, bomb that randomly and unexpectedly hit the right or wrong target as happens in real war. At the end of the game we have refought history as armchair generals, talked about the subject, had a good time and for a moment remembered the courage and sacrifice of the men and women who actually did it for real.

@VictoriaMcKinlaylindyinpink 2 года назад

Well.....didnt expect to have a tear in my eye at the end of that Matt....but thank you for saying what I feel in my heart 💖💖

@ValkyrieTiara 2 года назад

I'm almost halfway through the video and I just keep thinking "Man, this would make a sweet video game." Like, imagine all these rules but things like "remembering to draw an extra card for terrain bonuses", calculating black and white dice seperately, and fiddling with wound tokens are all done automatically in the backend, and you could have on-screen indicators to remind you that such mechanics exist to be considered in the first place. Otherwise the exact same game with animated figures and a 3D map.

@Xajmai 2 года назад

Who is Thorin?!?!? Thorin is one of the main protagonists of the hobbit and leads the company of dwarves+ is the heir to the lonely mountain which the entire battle for 5 armies is about :)

@awwells1985 2 года назад

Top tip...use coloured dice to track damage, we found this much better than tokens, and easyer to read at a glance.

@StarpunkPrime 2 года назад

Those army boxes in WotR aren't for fights, just large armies. Mostly Shadow armies. Put the whole army in box 1, grab the 1 token and move that around the board. It's the opposite of fiddly.

@grahamlloyd7157 2 года назад

We don't always have time to play War of the Ring...and Battle of the five armies satiates that need..our gaming group likes it...also not everyone who plays WW2 looks down on younger gamers...there are are people you encounter who do, but there are also many many people who don't...we have a range of gamers from 14 to 65...and we are happy to play all kinds of everything because we love board games and table top War games.

@tomdupree2758 2 года назад

Are you sure you're not projecting your perceptions on to those old men? Felt a bit like you were throwing a segment of the community under the bus there.

@shutupandsitdown 2 года назад

They made their feelings quite audibly clear at the time - but it was a long time ago, and a small sample of men!

@tomdupree2758 2 года назад

@@shutupandsitdown fair enough, that wasn't apparent in the video. Hence the question.

@harveythomas9726 7 месяцев назад

Excellent review. I fell in love with boardgames when I was 4 and then with wargames when I was 8. I am nearly 60 now. The wargames are so much better than what I had when I was young although a few are still worth a play. I find that outside of the top 10 as rated on BGG there are only few that grab my attention and time in the modern games (maybe 1775, Hammer of the Scots and RAF battle of britain). Games like War of the Ring, Twilight Struggle, Imperial Struggle, Triumph and Tragedy and Sekigahara are just so good that games lower down like the Battle of the 5 Armies are mostly just not worth the time unless they hit a very particular chord. This review is very helpful and confirms my desire not to devote time to it, although no doubt if it had been around when I was younger perhaps I would have loved it given the lcak of other better modern designs. Strangely when I was 8 and first started playing wargames (Avolon Hill's Midway) I looked down my nose at others at that time for playing such simplistic alternatives and now I am nearly 60 I find the opposite occurs more often than not although I agree that wargamers definitely have a supeiority complex that is not always well deserved. The games are often complex for the sake of it but not necessarily fun and exciting as a gaming experience which now my years are short becomes more important than ever.

@TheColonelKillgore 2 года назад

Matt: Genius. Respect.

@japanliving4378 2 года назад

Love this video and the message at the end about why games can all coexist together. 👍🏻

@Suprsim 2 года назад

Stay beautiful Matt, an absolutely wonderful and grounded video

@biglar155 2 года назад

The SUSD review of War of The Ring was the final "nudge" that pushed me over the edge to purchase the game several years ago. It was where I discovered that my youngest son also enjoys big, epic, all-day games. (He was 11 at the time.) Due to its length, WoTR doesn't get to the table much but it has become a Thanksgiving Day staple for him and me. We've been looking at Battle of the Five Armies but we both remain unconvinced that its for us - for all the reasons you mention that you aren't enamored with it.

@richardmoore5347 2 года назад

Matt hits it dead on with the similarity between wargames and roleplaying games. Every wargame session I have ever played that I enjoyed always had roleplaying, and silly hats involved. Using the setting and the game mechanics as a storytelling engine is what makes them great.

@orcyteo4054 2 года назад

I am not an old man but I come from miniatures wargames background and I totally agree with you, I have played since 2000, literally thousands of games of warhammer and other miniatures games like confrontation and lord of the rings non competitively and always it boils down to the stories we create on out tables, that's the meaning of these games for me, like minded people sharing stories with their little miniatures and their dice, like a different kind of role playing game...

@leddave 2 года назад

Its a shame that his conclusions is largely negative. I actually find Battle of the Five armies to be just a different kind of fun to its bigger brother but still an amazing experience. Its rich in the lore and character the same as its bigger brother if you know the story of the Hobbit. Just all on a slightly less grand scale.

@ArtaxForever 2 года назад

Is it a shame really? He directly said if he was a big fan of the hobbit he'd certainly like it more. And then explained why in general, there probably are fewer fans of the hobbit than LotR. I'd love to play it but seeing as I don't have WotR yet I'd probably start there

@shutupandsitdown 2 года назад

That's cool! Glad you like it more.

@leddave 2 года назад

@@ArtaxForever A shame as in I enjoyed the game so wish he had had as good an experience as I felt, and that it might put people off trying what I think is a great game. I am lucky enough to have the collectors edition that comes with painted minis and a much bigger board so that will mitigate some of his complaints as space and unit identity isn't an issue. Still loved the review though, very well shot and edited.

@MoonManPictures 2 года назад

@@leddave I think the SUSD guys dislike these larger army comp games for a while now, people change and so do their tastes. Power to you for having fun with it though!

@lizflaherty1374 2 года назад

I think personally a big part of why the luck feels worse is BotFA is because of the tedious token mechanic. It adds complexity without strategic depth so you're sitting around fiddling with tokens instead of focusing on your decisions. Compare it to WotR where combat is just play a card, roll some dice, re-roll some dice, remove hits. You don't dwell on the luck for as long because you're already moving on to the next thing.

@Madao099 2 года назад

Don't you know who this is? He is Aragorn, son of Arathorn, and he is a total babe.

@aliensliveinme 2 года назад

Well done on getting a wheezy sickness ridden laugh out of me :D

@kevindominicsuarez3768 2 года назад

Awesome review Matt! You are a classic gentleman!😊 i know you probably don't do requests but I hope you review or the LOTR lcg. I know it is old but they did launch a revised version lately.