Western Christendom plunged into scholasticism, philosophy, rationality; mysticism didn’t go away completely per se, but as a focus, it did get pushed to the sideline in favor of systematic theology. Many in the East point to this as the causation of modern man’s eventual sinking into materialism, but my hypothesis is this vacuum caused the fantasy literature renaissance in the west. Authors like J.R.R. Tolkien, C.S. Lewis, G.K Chesterton, Ronald Knox composed these wonderful stories full of mystery and ancient theological tropes. Mystical concepts may have disappeared from the seminaries but were invigorated on the pages of western literature. I had a deeply moving spiritual encounter when I was eight years old. I answered the altar call. I was very young, and it was emotionally based, but to this day I do not discredit it's authenticity: it was a personal glimpse into the eyes of Love and Truth. But then I grew up. I faded away- not unlike similar evangelicals my age who also had their faith anchored in feelings or revival type experiences. In college I was somewhere in between agnostic in lifestyle and disenfranchised nondenominationalism in creed. However, fostered by my love of fantasy literature, in particular the Chronicles of Narnia and The Lord of the Rings, the eight-year-old Cody never died and he always tugged me back to that magical childhood religious experience. Good authors, like all talented artists, invoke the feeling that beauty, truth, and holiness are somehow all tangibly intertwined. They make you know, in the pit of your stomach, that good and evil are concrete realities. One just needs to go on an epic quest to find them. This is why I believe, or at least suspect that Story is sacramental in nature. There is a connection between good literature and true mysticism. The entirety of the Scriptures is one overarching narrative of mankind’s relationship with the supernatural (The God of Israel and His angels) and preternatural (fallen spiritual beings). The old Baltimore Catechism defines a Sacrament as, “A Sacrament is an outward sign instituted by Christ to give grace.” I’m not saying that storytelling is a Sacrament but Jesus exclusively taught in parables - stories. And He is the Logos, the primordial Word ‘story’ of the Father. Deep within our ethos we are programmed for story, for myth, for tale. Story is quasi-sacramental; referring to the Baltimore catechism once more, “A sacramental is anything set apart or blessed by the Church to excite good thoughts and to increase devotion, and through these movements of the heart to remit venial sin.” Good story has had that result in many. Tolkien used these concepts to reach his agnostic friend Lewis and he was given the Grace of conversion. I too, had the faith kept alive, as a small spark within my imagination due to graceful storytelling. The stories we tell, matter. The stories we listen to, matter. The stories we pass on, matter.
The great schism between the east and west was a demonic attack that made that crazy divided view of the Church. Both sides lost a bunch! but they both accuse each other of going away from the most important things. Both need to go back into unity again, that's it.
@@leondbleondb Well, it's very simple, the west attacks the east for the lack of precision in their theology and methodology because it causes big problems (for example in the notion of divorce and remarry) it doesn't have clear teachings it's not systematized, now the east critizices the rationalization and systematization of theology because it doesn't give room to the mystic experience and it's hyperfocused on a moralistic view of reality. These are simple examples but in this regard are BOTH wrong and right, meaning all the riches from the west and riches from the east are extremely valuable and both are needed. We need the spirituality of the Hebrews, the philosophy of the Greeks and the Law of the Latin, our Lord intended it that way, it is written in his cross. So when you hyperfocus on either one you lose the others, that Schism was a trick from the devil. Now that cut of the bread (mystical body of Christ) allowed for the body of Christ to be extended to the entire world but now we must reunite, we must become one body again.
The West needs Orthodoxy (as does the whole world). Orthodoxy needs nothing, because it lacks nothing - the Orthodox Church is the fullness of Christ, period. The East suffers insofar as they have departed from Orthodoxy.
YASSSS!!!! this is what I needed today :) Just attended my first divine liturgy on Sunday btw, it was beautiful but my protestant mind felt very lost haha.
How does CS Lewis's Space Trilogy fit in? Is it Sci-Fi, or an independent work of Fantasy not overly influenced by Tolkein. Although Lewis gives a nod to Tolkein's world involving "Numinor"(sic), Professor Ransom is highly unlike Beren, Aragorn, or any of the major warriors/ heroes of LOTR. If any connection of Ransom to any of Tolkien's characters, it is to one of the Hobbits. Balancing between Lewis and Tolkien, I might not have to purge myself of 50 years of Tolkien immersion. But, then, i'm not planning on writing an epic Fantasy novel any time soon.
It's kinda mind-blowing when you think that most people before modern media would just tell stories to each other instead of being constantly "informed".
Regarding the Mother of God being in the Pentecost icon (34:30f), it is clear from Acts 1:13-14 that "Mary the Mother of Jesus" was there with the Eleven and the other women in the upper room praying together following the Ascension of the Lord. The way Luke connects Acts 1:14 to 2:1 and the outpouring the Holy Spirit at Pentecost shows complete consistency in the members of their company being together and devoted to prayer.
I was lucky enough to get to hear Richard Rohlin give a version of his talk on Percival's ending at the Eight Day Inklings Festival. And believe me, you're not going to want to miss it!
Its like an Oxford seminar, as they used to be, full of grit, God, gritty humor, truth, self study, insight. I skip out lighter, happier w/ a Big Idea Making Me Stronger. May God Bless you guys into eternity!
Great topic! I am Orthodox Serbian, and we have epic songs, oraly transmitted, hundreds of them, written down by Vuk Karadžić in 19th century. They centre around battle of Kosovo, fought in 14th. century.
Absolutely fascinating. I do not identify myself with the West because I am Korean-Canadian. Regardless, it was super easy to listen to, not to mention relaxing and very informative for uninformed individuals like myself.
The Image you used as the cover for the video I first saw in Indiana Jones as a kid, I was probably 12 years old , that sparked my entire curiosity and pursuit of faith and truth ! Very profound scene !!
Loved this - like a good meal for the mind and spirit. I have been obsessed with the Arthurian legend for half my life. I never tire of the depth and mystery to it. Magic
50:47 That’s profound. Failing to heal the Schism lead to the writing of the Grail stories in the West. That’s the wounded King and the lost Communion right there. History manifesting itself in Story and Symbolism, as to never forget what was lost. - Although as you pointed out, the loss of the religious Mystery in the West concerning the meaning of the Sacrament is even more baffling, and from the perspective of a believer is the more important loss to be noticed, and the more important thing to be preserved in this new Mystery of the Grail, than just remembering the mere fact that the Church split. 59:22 I also think that the discussion from earlier applies: not only the relics but the sacrament itself is nothing that can be wielded by anyone mechanically: the Person needs to have a pure heart - there is preparation to be done: confession and fasting; the Liturgy is not some magic formula to be babbled, but an exercise that orients the whole community, body and soul and all faculties of the mind.
Makes me think of Fridays in lent. Symbolically eating the eucharist rather than other meat. Abstaining from the world and partaking in what saves us. What a pattern!
Jonathan Pageau ... I discovered your work by way of Dr. Jordan Peterson. I just wanted to thank you and let you know that you and Dr. Peterson, along with the others in your field doing similar work in the world, you have all made a huge positive impact on my life. My spiritual journey has been quite volatile to say the very least. I was born Catholic, very Catholic. As a child I remember having this sorta general feeling of dread when it came to church, and I quite vividly shared in the terror of Joyce's depiction of Heaven and Hell. I can't tell you how many sincere and heartfelt prayers I sent up to God from the innocence of my lonely childhood bedroom, only to be met with the most definitive and conclusive silence. As I grew into young adulthood, I found myself stumbling through an environment that did not lend itself compatibly to my gentle and curious nature. I subsequently, set about fashioning an ego that was better suited (or so I thought) to the harsh realities in which I was immersed. It did not take long for this travesty of self I had created to land me in the Spartan comforts of a prison cell. From the ages of 20 to about 50 I ended up spending roughly 21 years in the state penal institutions of Pennsylvania, my sentences ranging from 2 to 4 years in length. It was an endless nightmare of drug addiction and recidivism, spanning the 30 aforementioned years. Fortunately, during those years I decided to educate myself. I read philosophy, economics, classic literature, history, poetry biology, chemistry, etc... I even explored the eastern philosophy of the Vedas. In using my time to educate myself in this way, coupled with my utter ignorance of true meaning behind religious symbolism, I became a devout atheist... Devout! I will concede, however, that the much less dogmatic tenets of eastern wisdom literature did quite a bit to blur the hard line I was drawing in my heart and mind with regard to the spiritual realm. My atheism slowly began to give way to a sort of open-minded agnosticism. I then stumbled upon Dr. Peterson's "12 Rules" while I was in the prison library waiting to check out. I sat and examined the table of contents, and then curiously fanned through its beautiful and enlightening pages. I couldn't put it down. I didn't put it down until I had read it ...several times. Prior to reading 12 Rules, I had read some Freud, Jung, and Dostoyevsky, and was somewhat familiar with their major works. I had also, just recently finished reading Campbell's "Hero with a 1000 Faces", which brought me several steps closer to understanding this journey. However, it wasn't until discovering Dr Peterson, that I realized just how much of this literature I was reading that I did not quite apprehend. It's, after all, quite profound and dense material. Dr. Peterson (12 Rules, Maps of Meaning, and his Biblical RU-vid series) just had a way of crystalizing years of truth seeking into this eloquent and enlightening message which paves the way for me to put together all the pieces of this profound symbolic puzzle in such a way that I was now able to see the spiritual picture that had eluded me for so long. I was thoroughly convinced and believed that my quest for "The Holy Grail" was over. All my years of searching had paid off, and I now understood what this was all about. And then, via Dr. Peterson, I found your work, and I was blown away. Much like Dr. Peterson, you have a way of explaining these spiritual symbols, concepts and ideas in such a way that makes the truth of it all, not just easy to understand, but truly and unequivocally obvious. So for that, and for your years of dedication to your own quest for truth, I solemnly thank you.
The Noble Joseph is also recited quietly in the altar during the chanting of the Cherubic Hymn after the Great Entrance with the chalice and diskos in the Liturgy if St John Chrysostom,
The Holy Grail within the King Arthur context, was used to create incredibly memorable and symbolic stories of the ultimate treasure quest, which was never about a physical object. This kind of story actually predates the Arthurian era, and was used to simultaneously hold a religious or spiritual secret, and automatically divert those who had no interest in spirituality or religion... and it's extremely clever, and versions of this were later used by the Navy, licensed and unlicensed Pirates in 1700's. It goes back to a religious book from around 300CE, who wrote about his disgust with the rise in Greedy folk within the village, so he came up with a philosophy based on empty words within a pool of context read by the right mindset will define the empty word(s) themselves. So he drew a Map, with written notes, symbols, cryptic reference to a local landmark. Then wrote I buried the "Treasure" and took my cut, and used the map etc we agreed on, fairwell. Then he made sure it was laying around so someone would see it... and within an hour 4 men had decided that it was a chest full Gold or silver, and also made up a possible weight so they know what there share would be... and they were leaving in the morning to search for it... 'Treasure' a word which requires you to decide what treasure is, your greatest and most cherished treasure maybe a photograph of a loved one... so when you have an ego fuelled by greed you can make grown men search for something that only exists in their Imagination.... what he discovered while watching these people search and fail, is that others would join or take over the search... what he didn't expect is that the 'literal Act of NOT finding the imaginary treasure', was the apparent realization for them that they can still find it, and so the chain reaction began. Now this was used to create deterrents for pirate 'treasure' galleons needed to leave and didnt want to have to fight on the way home, neither did they want to bury the booty, and then have to travel 1 or 2 months just to get some gold, as some people in the world still believe today that very intelligent navigators Royal institution members Naval pirates would go to an island in the pacific ocean, risking life, ship and crew in the craziest waters on the globe, then bury a chest in the sand.... then draw a map how to find the spot he needs to dig, then non of them ever went back, but all the maps they drew ended up in public hands... oh and noone has ever found buried pirate treasure, washed up and ship wrecks but anyway. They would go to a local island and just leave some digging equipment etc... in the bar they'd talk loudly about his mate who was burying their gold last night on a certain island.. saying they said they forgot their lamp and shovel idiots... as long as a couple over heard, and they check it out and see a shovel, well it's confirmed in their eyes... pirates leave while idiots are digging up an island... still digging one up today, remember if the story is elaborated on enough, then the 'treasure' has 100's of possibilities... and as it doesn't exist then finding it cant happen, but finding old stuff and NOT a ton of Gold bars, makes it worth another year of digging to add to the other 250 years people have been doing the same thing (MENTAL) So the Holy Grail, is what they called the most secret of religious heartifact, and you are right it consists of 5 pieces...assumptions are of course the concept of some fancy cup, although it's referred to as the cup of Christ, maybe the one he drank from at the last supper, or the cup Mary used to catch his blood which of course if the word is changed to the French graal can mean blood... which was intentional too leading people down another rabbit hole for 100's of years. The Holy Grail is a sacred metaphysical shape, it's known by many religions and occult and esoteric societies as the completion of the heart. 5 stages to the completing the soul lay within the magnetism of the heart, a dual toroidal field consists of the 2 donut shaped rotating fields, which spin around the central dielectric point of the heart, from this point 2 polar and slightly asymmetrical vortexes incorporate and become a true toroidal stable system... the Holy Grail is the 'Hyperboloid' of the Torus, the hourglass shape which is the final step to true enlightenment... this is even kept under raps in Indian practices as people think activation of the 7 main chakras of the spine means enlightenment, but this comes after and you need to be truly dedicated. It's the ultimate Quest within yourself, there is real Treasure, and you are the one who has all the pieces...and they're buried in your 'chest' of treasure!
Jonathan can you do a video about Armenia? I loved your video about Ethiopia and what it symbolically represents. I think your thoughts will be interesting about the first nation to adopt Christianity as it’s state religion.
The word for fish in Greek (Ikhthus) is an early acrostic Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior (ιχ,θγ,σ). The symbol served as a secretive sign for the early Christians.
The best analysis of the Grail story I've ever heard. Theres also the Byzantine image of the Melismos (cutting of the Echaristic child) which occurs almost exactly in Perceval's vision of the Grail in Mallory.
What??? I will have to look that up. If you liked this video, I think you might like the Taliesin's Map channel and his book which is about the symbolism of Celtic and Norse compared to ancient Hindu and he has lot on King Arthur, the Grail knights, and so on.
I'm re-watching this because I found it so helpful the first time. One (small) point of disagreement: I don't think it's fair to say that magic in Harry Potter is utterly disconnected from virtue. Throughout the series, it is consistently implied that the deepest, most profound magic is connected with virtue, particularly the virtue of love, which is why Harry is able to defeat Voldemort, most obviously in the final book, but at other points too, such at the end of the first one when only the one who wants the stone but does not want to use it can ever possess it. Interestingly, part of why Voldemort cannot be victorious is that he dismissed fairy tales and folk stories as unimportant, but Dumbledore and the three protagonists follow the Tale of the Three Brothers to the Hallows. They aren't perfect books, but I think they are seriously informed by Rowling's Christianity.
It would be helpful if more sources were cited. Where, for example (and this particularly interests me), can it be found that the ceremonies surrounding the Mandylion in Edessa and Constantinople are similar to those performed in the Grail Castle in the romances? (Which romances, even, are under discussion? The ceremonies vary quite a bit from work to work.)
Thank you for this really great video...before I listen to part 2, I just want to comment that maybe the grail stories were ways that God hid truth in plain sight...because the time was coming (and is now) when people would forget Him...but there are those who still seek and can be led by these stories to our Lord.
Jonathan you need to talk with Dr. Brett Salkeld about transubstantiation or Andrew Klavan about story telling or another interesting conversation that'd be dope. ¡Viva Cristo Rey!
Interesting presentation, but wrong in the assessment of Chretien‘s version as being the best. I would like to make case for Wolfram von Eschenbach‘s Parzival. It takes it to a spiritual depth that is missing in Chretien. In fact, Wolfram’s treatment is the spiritual pinnacle of the grail stories. I hope you will give it the space that it deserves in your discussion of the romances.
Do you know the Chalice of Dona Urraca ? It´s formed by an ancient onyx bowl ( I Century b.c.) that was showed in the Holy Sepulcher Church of Jerusalem as the Cup of the Mesiah . Later, it was stole by muslims and sent to El Cairo. And finally , sent to the Kingdom of Leon in the Norwest of Spain. There, it was given by King Fernando I El Magno to his daughter, the Princess Urraca, who covered with gold and jewells and wrote her name on it. Princess Urraca ordered to paint a big Last Supper painting just above the place where she and her parents would be buried. You can see a man showing the onyx cup and offering it to Jesus. You can see another man serving fishes to the disciples for the Supper. The paintings are about year 1.080. The church has the strange privilege of the permanent show of the Holy Sacrament. Alfonso VI , King of Leon, was the brother of Princess Urraca. He married with Agnes od Aquitanie and , later, with Constance of Bourgundy. He was wounded by a spair in the leg. Some people think that trouvadours of the two queens , told about a magic cup in the north-west of Spain. A princess who was her owner, a wounded king, a Kingdom in a big danger (the almoravid attack) . The small onyx cup was hiden into a golden estructure, so, there was the Cup of Christ (the onyx bowl ) and the Holy Grail (the golden Cup that cover the onyx). And so, one hundred years later , this history was reflected in part in the Tales of the Grail, in the West of France. There is a good explaining about that, but it is in spanish ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-g2EUFUqhJac.html sorry my poor english, please. Another information in the Spanish TV ; ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-XU82Ce1NTk4.html A very strange think is that the onyx cup supposed to travel from El Cairo to Spain in the year 1.054. And this is just the year when Christian Church was broken between West and East.
Rummaging through relics of the past is just that, so _"Why seek the living among the dead?"_ The key to understanding ANY society is to LIVE IN IT, and to seek a concerted, determined understanding of it - nothing more or less.
Because God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. Paradoxically, the living saint's presence and the Lord's Grace is manifested in their bones, et al.
@@iliya3110 In the Orthodox hymnography for her feasts it is said explicitly that in addition to being the fulfillment of the Ark of the Covenant and the rod that budded, she is also the jar of manna which was in the Ark. So there is definitely the connection with her as the "vessel" of the Bread of Life.
How do we protect ourselves from symbolism becoming esoteric talk? I showed my friend videos from the Symbolic World and this was one of his concerns. 🤔🙂🙏
Keep your eyes on Christ. If you're saved by his death on the cross, you're dealing in symbology. You cross over into esoterica and Gnosticism when you begin to believe you're somehow better, "more worthy" or even saved by your knowledge. We are not ever worthy else Christ wouldn't have had to die for us.
We can play semantics, but this *is* esoteric talk. But as the other reply here implies, it is about the fruit that it bears. All traditions have the exoteric AND esoteric.
It isn't esoteric because it isn't hidden. It's all out in the open. Properly speaking, esoteric knowledge is that which is only taught to initiates. Public discussions are exoteric by the very nature of them being public.
The Holy Grail is a person with given powers from heaven I perceive she is the second eve that will be indeed with powers on high that can heal all manner of ailments and can heal all mannerif economic problems of the world. I perceive she is already on planet earth.
Some things you don’t mention, but may be good connections within the Divine Liturgy of St John Chrysostom: I. When the priest finishes the great entrance, and removes the aer from his shoulders, places it over the holy gifts- which, by the way, have been set on the antimension, which has the same icon of Joseph removing Jesus body from the cross on it, just as the epitaphion icon has- The priest says “the noble Joseph, taking down thine immaculate body from the cross, wrapped it in linen and spices, and laid it for burial in a new tomb…” So this hymn is said at every liturgy not just during the Paschal season as you mentioned in this podcast… and connects Joseph and the Holy Mandilion with the chalice and patten. The aer becomes a container or skin concealing the containers for the body and blood of Christ, up until just before the faithful partake of the Eucharist! II. When the priest places the “IC” quarter portion of the Holy Lamb in the chalice he says “the fullness of the cup of faith of the Holy Spirit” … the Greek is hard to translate… but it is nearly identical to the description of Stephen in the book of Acts who is chosen to become one of the first deacons: a man “full of faith and of the Holy Spirit.” So just your as in your podcast commentary here, so in the Liturgy at this point, where the consecrated gifts are about to be given for the peoples consumption, there may a symbolic equals sign between the chalice, the deacon, and Joseph Aramathea and the mandilion/epitaphios. I would love for you to work this out a little more for me!
He appears to not be very familiar with irish mythology. When he's talking about the fish he doesn't mention the salmon of knowledge. This 'salmon of knowledge' is in other indo-european mythologies too, a lot of times its not a fish it's a worm/dragon/serpent. It appears the fish was a latter adaptation, and the worm/serpent was earlier. So you've got a serpent giving knowledge, as the base story in all this indo-european mythologies. Goodness where have we heard that before? Almost as if Eden came first.
Fascinating implications isn't it? Just wish there was more focus on literally everyone not connected to the Indo-European cultural sphere like east Asia, Indonesia, Oceania, Sub-Saharan Africa and the Americas. Like, where would the Aboriginal Australians fit in or Bantu-speakers?
Well it depends on what you worship. Ancestor worship like the Bantu ascribe to is probably very similar to many of the pagan gods of our Northern European/British past, especially before the widespread adoption of Christianity. I question if the mythical stories regarding Tuatha de Dannan were possibly a relic of the tale about the fallen angels mating with the daughters of man. They were ruthless, supposedly cannibals, mystical, beautiful, strong, red haired tribe supposedly from the Nordic region depending on what sources you read. Much ancestor worship venerates and worships red hair, pale visage very primitive clown symbology, polka dots, geometric shapes (fractals) and as I’ve learned it’s not their granny and grandads they’re getting high to commune with it’s much older deities - the symbolism points to the nephilim! In fact if you invert the Grecian god stories there is a similar thread. Like Disney’s Hercules, I always get a kick out of theme tune and music video. You have ole Michael Bolton with his Grecian/Roman statue features, long flowing hair in amongst Roman/Grecian symbols singing about getting his hero’s welcome and it will be waiting for him! As was written, god told the nephilim they would still desire but would be banished to a dry place much like the symbolism in the first Superman film - at the very beginning the three psychopaths trying to rule the universe are bound by the ruler of Superman’s planet into a mirror to which they cannot escape before their world is destroyed (flood symbolism anyone?) What if they live in the fractals which make up our world, like the plumbing. You hear from folk who have taken psychedelics - you couldn’t live in that environment for longer than a glimpse without going mad - which would explain the warped trickster energy/clown symbology! Was the mark god gave Cain - very sickly white skin, like powder? Would it explain why witch doctors want albino children killed for body parts - the veneration of the powder white skin. I know sounds far fetched and stuff of fairytales but once you start looking at ancestor worship tribes, what they emulate, how they dress, their idols and how they act you will see there is a common thread across the world and if Christianity once understood this but overtime lost the understanding of the true horrors of nature/ancestor worship you can understand how symbolism like the clown was able to evolve under the auspices of materialism and entertainment in our European cultures and mess with our sub conscious.
At 19:18/1:00:45 The Forms of the Grail. You mention that a Saint will appear again once all the relecis are revealed. I can't help but think first of King Arthur and how he is supossed to return at a certain time, and ultimately the Jesus's Second Coming. I would love your imput and others imput into this symbolism of second coming or disappear only to return at a certain time. I'm still a novice of symbolic interpretation, been a follower of yours for about a year. I have been attending a local Eastern Orthodox Church for about a month now and am waitng for the blessing to be a catacumen.
Why do you dislike systematized magic? This stood out to me in the discussion. I was under the impression that the language of creation is supposed to be a system of symbols. Is there a problem with organizing it systematically?
For that theory to be true wouldnt the Protestants be the origin of those stories of grail longing since they are the ones lacking most sacraments? In Catholicism continued the giga saints, miracle makers, mystics, apparitions. Even St.Thomas Aquinas who is erroneously seen as having made things excessively intelectual said that all of his writings are but straw after having had a mystical ecstasy.
After the Roman Catholics left the true Church, they no longer had true sacraments. From that point onward their sacraments were merely empty forms, devoid of grace. Their mysticism was a result of delusion and demonic influence. Somewhere deep down they collectively knew this, especially after encounters with the East where truly grace-filled sacraments continued (and continue still).
@@whitemakesright2177 That's just crazy mythology certain people like to peddle. If you remain in that position in the last judgement you'll be amongst those who disparaged God's Saints. I wouldnt want to be in that position.
@@whitemakesright2177 Every Orthodox saint? I find that hard to believe. And if somehow that is true, they are wrong. One has to enter cognitive dissonance to read the writings and lives of western saints and reach the conclusion that they arent holy people. That is just a dark resentment over the schism talking, not common sense.
Orthodoxy has a tendency towards ethnocentrism, and some other word I can't remember. I dont like the word western saints because "west" and "western" is the language of the american empire. Catholic saints is a better term. I've always wondered if Orthodox Christians are aware that Catholic saints and monks exist, when they go on and on about their "theories". Here with this channel, anything is anything, borders are chaos but also containers, stretching is minimizing too as well... am not calling it sophism yet...but jonathan seems to live inside a fantasy world where imaginary monsters dwell in lakes and he is aware that is imaginary but by choosing that state of mind calls it magical, instead. I've never heard them speak of the tribe that via usury owns American media, he prefers to blame the current state of the US and Canada on the natural outcome of the schism with the east....😂..like it happened just yesterday
@@olgakarpushina492 I was speaking in context of the Western tradition, where the relics are embedded into the stone altar itself, which comes out of the ancient practice of celebrating Mass on the tomb of a martyr or other saint. I don't think there was an antimise in the West.
@@olgakarpushina492 I think that historically, consecrated altars (which have relics embedded in them) did not require an antimension - the antimension was only used when celebrating the Liturgy on an unconsecrated table, especially when celebrated by a bishop. Now of course the antimension is always used, even on a consecrated altar, but I don't believe it is strictly necessary on a consecrated altar.
2 questions: 1) What is nominalism in this context? I understand there was this William of Occam dude who started it, but I don't understand what nominalism is and why it is harmful. 2) What in the world is the context of crusaders putting a prostitute on a throne in the Hagia Sophia? Was it just an FU to the Byzantines?
But what about the Virgin of the Fountain icon? It's the very image of the Holy Grail in Eastern Orthodox iconography. As for "what the Grail really is", the Sufis (and the Tantric Yogis) can answer that: it is al-Qalb, the Spiritual Heart, the precise seat of the Imago Dei (al-Ruh, the Spirit) within the human soul ---- what the yogis call the Hridayam, "the Cave of the Heart". For was Christ not born in a cave --- and from a cave, in the Resurrection? As for the 5 forms taken by the Grail, one of them might be the Seat, Galahad's "Siege Perilous", which only the perfectly pure-of-heart can sit in without injury or death. And the Seat, of course, is also the Virgin Mary, who is called in the Litany of Loretto the Sedes Sapentiae, the Seat of Wisdom. The Virgin Mary, as Theotokos, IS the Seat or Throne of Wisdom, which is Christ. The Grail, therefore, has to do with the lesser or feminine mysteries by which we regain the primordial or Adamic human form, the purified and integrated psychophysical vehicle, symbolized in alchemy by the Philosopher's Stone (another form of the Grail, one that also suggests Christ as "the stone the builders rejected"), which is capable of hosting, without madness or destruction, the quintessential Presence of God. Rene Guenon associated the lesser mysteries with the kshatriya or warrior caste and the ethos of Courtly Love, which is certainly in line with the Grail romances, and the greater or liturgical mysteries with the Brahmin or priestly caste. The lesser mysteries, though they necessarily take place under Divine guidance, are still in part accomplished by human labor and exploit --- by "works" --- while the greater mysteries, the mysteries of Grace, are accomplished by God alone. But of all the Grail romances, I have always believed that the most complete is the Parzival of Wolfram von Eschenbach, since it presents the entire Magnum Opus, not only the internal union and integration of all the human faculties, but the union of Inner and Outer worlds. As for the Grail as a Bell, the same mythologem is found in Vajrayana Buddhism, where the Vajra, Dorje, or Thunderbolt symbolizes the masculine principle, the principle of "means" or "works," while the Bell represents pre-existing and eternal Wisdom, the feminine principle, personified as Arya Prajnaparamita, "Lady Highest Perfect Wisdom" --- Hagia Sophia precisely. The sexual symbolism here is the reverse of Guenon's identification of works with the lesser feminine mysteries and Grace with the greater masculine ones, though his attributions are certainly in line with Tantric Hinduism, where the Absolute Witness (Atman, Purusha, Shiva) is masculine, while his Power, or the ensemble of the Divine Energies, is feminine (Maya, Prakriti, Shakti). But the Vajrayana perspective, at least in terms of sexual symbolism as applied to Grace and World, Wisdom and Means, is entirely consonant with the Courtly Love tradition, the doctrine and practice of the Fedeli d'Amore, where the Knight (like Dante in the Commedia) represents effort and struggle, while the Lady (Beatrice) simply IS. The Knight in the Grail romances is incomplete, full of needs, in need of purification, while the Lady, as Holy Wisdom, is already complete in herself. And so, speaking in Aristotelian terms, we could say that the Lady is Forma and the Knight is Potentia; thus the goal of the Way of Courtly Love is the actualization of potential, the achievement of Substantial Form. (Etc., etc.)
I was raised Catholic, three Catholic grandparents, and I never heard that the fish was a symbol of Jesus or a symbol of the Eucharist. until around the late sixties. To me, this has always been a strange symbol, of modern times. It stinks as a symbol of Jesus. The loaves and the fishes, yes, that was a symbol I learned. They didn't stand FOR Jesus, though. They referenced the miracle, only one of many.
I find it interesting that it's not the slaughter of the Latins that is deemed to be the inflection point, but the fourth crusade. I highly recommend you both learn the history of the fourth crusade, and what happened before it. Because your version of events is not exactly related to what happened, but it is a powerful story that is told and used to maintain division that is anti-Christ.
I suppose the Fourth Crusade sack of Constantinople sticks because it was a desecration of the holy centre of Eastern Christendom, by supposedly fellow Christians. It shouldn't have happened, even after the bad stuff Byzantines inflicted upon Latins before this point, as you have hinted to. Christianity is not a game of vengeance
@@Xanaseb Well it's also the fact that the Eastern Christians decided to renege on their deal, and the Catholics who did it were excommunicated. So to still harp on this (especially as westerners who have literally no ties to the people it happened to) is really disingenuous and not a good look.
I think the thing that was lost was the reality that didn’t manifest. Jesus said, these things I do, you will do and greater... but who has come close. That was the promise and whatever teachings he gave that would have enabled it to come true have been lost or locked away by the powerful. The ‘unworthy’ are not allowed to know the power of this greatest of relics, so Lancelot falls back into his old ways and the fellowship is broken.
In the first 1,000 years of the undivided Church, the saints did do the things that Christ did and greater things - healing the sick, raising the dead, casting out demons, preaching the Gospel far and wide, smashing the idols and overthrowing the tyranny of the false gods. These things continued in the Orthodox east. It is only in the West that they ceased, because the West left the Church and went into heresy and schism.
For it is the land, the dirt that receiveth the blood, so is it the land, the dirt that is the Holy Grail. We must take root again, instead of floating in this superficiality. Focus on the center and stop being dependant of the periphery.
