The Holy Trinity - Audemars Piguet , Patek Philippe and Vacheron Constantin - Federico Talks Watches 

I definitely agree with you, Lange and JLC deserve to be up there.

As I always say: Want Patek quality and finishing at Rolex prices? Go JLC. I have a 1930's Jaeger chronograph (my great grandfather's) which has never seen a repair shop and is still going strong (it only gains 4 seconds per day, after almost 100 years). In my opinion, you really can't beat that.

I'd say , Lange , Breget , and JLC

Holy Trinity if you're not rich = Seiko .Citizens .Casio . Another great Vlog Federico .

I'd say Lange, Patek and either Breguet or JLC

I challenge anyone to debunk my plastic watch holy trinity of Casio, Timex and Swatch, I dare you!

Totally with you! A Lange & S. Patek & Jaeger Le C my top 3

My trinity is Tissot PRS516, Hamilton Khaki King and Seiko SKX007. Well...I love them and can afford them.

Lange and Jaeger LeCoultre deserved to be included!

The Swiss watchmaking industry used traditionally to separate the fabrication of the different parts between companies (specialization and cost optimization within the industry). The prestige of an in-house movement is a recent fashion and marketing. If I can give a car analogy, AP/VC and JLC would be like AMG and Mercedes: AP/VC would take a base movement made by JLC and customize it heavily, as well as put it in an improved case. And no-one would say that an AMG is less prestigious than a base Mercedes, because AMG engineers did not make the original base engine. Nowadays, clients' demand puts a premium on in-house movement and the companies have responded by integrating this part, often by buying companies that were selling them these movements.

Completely agree with you! Is it bad that I would consider a Grand Seiko a 'personal' holy trinity? The SBGR097 to be precise, limited to 500 pieces with the most beautiful dial I think I have ever seen! Though I do like the AP Royal Oak 15400 in Blue :) But my number one watch I wish to own one day is a Rolex GMT Master II :) Also the Vacheron Constantin 4500V in blue is just beautiful!

It's always interesting to learn more about the high end luxury brands.. I think the most I can aspire for is around the Grand Seiko or Tudor range.

I don't understand how JLC is so highly regarded as ultra-premium in horology. Sure they make great technically designed movements in-house but many of the highest selling watches, the steel sub-10k line, features bare movements with sandblasted, unpolished sharp edges, and blocky designs. It's not until watches such as the duometer that they start competing with other brands in the "holy trinity" price point. ALS, AP, VC, PP all create beautiful work of art movements from their least expensive steel watches (except all precious metal ALS) to their obscene tourbillons and minute repeaters. A brand should be judged along the entire spectrum of their products and JLC simply doesn't hold up in their entry level products in my opinion. Isn't luxury about not making those type of compromises?

Hi Federico, I'm as well wonder who picks this three brands first. For me A. Lange & Söhne is definitely more desirable than an all of the "holy" trinity brands. My personal "holy" trinity at the moment are ALS, JLC and H. Moser. Best regards, Claus

JLC, PP, Rolex

Thanks for another great video! I sent you a youtube message of a video idea I think would fit very well with your watch talks with TGV.

I think part of the holy trinity thing is also because Ap, pp, and VC are independent watch companies. Also, i think the fact that they have never went out of business and had to be revived. Breguet was saved by the swatch group. Although the type xx aeronavale is one of my favourite watches. JLC was saved by Richemont. However, that takes nothing away from the Reverso.

I couldn't agree more. I personally think Audemars Piguet could be replaced by Jaeger Lecoultre. Fine, fine timepieces.

Great video, How about a holy trinity video for more obtainable brands?

Your top 3 is the same as mine :)

What do I think of someone who regards Patek, AP and Vacheron Constantine as the pinnacle of horology? Well, they're not as silly as someone who thinks Rolex is the world's greatest watchmaker, but they're also not a real watch connoisseur yet. It's sort of an in-between stage.

Casio, Seiko, Timex

Invicta didn't make the cut because women were not allowed to vote! Fed, please explain how or why "...Lange makes a better watch than Patet?" I can only think of workmanship, quality and style as criteria .

I like your trinity

I think it is IWC VC Piaget

JLC has never made their own wristwatch chronograph movements. Look up Cal 285 it's a UG

My Trinity is Breguet, and... and... um... I like them allllll... its just my opinion...:P

Are you Persian?

Lange #1!!!!

The vacheron patrimony makes my knees weak every time I see it !

PP utilized JLC movements as well

Agreed. My trinity would be PP, JLC, VC. Federico, your down to earth yet knowledgeable commentaries are quickly becoming a favorite of mine. Well done!

I couldn't agree more with PP JLC ALS. Was not disappointed in your assessment.

Another great video as usual!! Thank you! You are right about your comment on the JLC but you are wrong about PP, they ALSO used JLC movement in the nautilus same as AP and VC! The holy trinity used a JLC movement in their models, while JLC has always used it's own movements, they are not called a "watchmakers watchmaker" for nothing! So if these 3 are a holy trinity, the JLC is the one above! My trinity would be JLC, Brequet, A. Lange

Great video Federico!

50 year watch enthusiast: Lange, Piaget and Patek...

lange eats the tree of them for dinner and breakfast in build quality.

if you're going to break the rules with going german why not break the small independent rule as well? my holy trinity would be PP, Lange, Journe

So agree with you Federico. Lange in my mind are the best

100%: A. Lange, JLC and PP for holy Trinity

I wouldn't leave VC out, but I totally agree with you on ALS and JLC! I definitely would leave AP out!

l guess the lowly trinity would be invicta, T.W. steel and Micheal Kors.

I agree with your top 3, especially Lange

Completely endorse your view. Patek and A Lange & Sohne as the top two with JLC being the third to complete the new objectively thought out trinity!

Excellent analysis Federico. I agree with your PP, JLC and ALS pucks as probably the real Trinity.

I agree with what you say regarding VC and AP as well as the Swiss rule. Imo the Trinity would be Patek, ALS and Breguet

I thought that The Holy Trinity - Patek Philippe, Vacheron Constantin and Breguet. In fact, AP = Royal Oak and nothing else.

Vaginal custom ten is how the subtitles called Vacheron, which cracked me up inmensely, I must admit

If we're gonna be a bit objective here, the Holy 3 in my mind means excellence x volume + innovation but not necessarily "value." You pick up a watch from a top 3 brand...it's going to be excellent consistently and it's going to cost the part. JLC is excellent, but their real value is in their pricing and value despite their amazing innovations, class leading innovations in fact. Their lower end pieces are not finished to the level of their minute repeaters and while this is great for people like me, it's not a unifrom standard. It's for this reason only that I wouldn't consider them in the holy trinity. I'd instead support A Longe And Sohne which has better finishing and way more innovation recently than Patek. They also have the "Wow" factor that most other watches just don't. VC....I'd give them some slack. They have a lot of innovation, as in their astronomical grand complication piece unique and a commitment to art via les cabinotiers. They have the history and aren't resting on their lorals as much as Patek and AP seem to be. So for me the holy Trinity would PP, ALS, and VC.

JLC, Zenith or Blancpain could replace AP. The Rolex, Omega, TAG was appreciated for a good laugh. Breightling crushes TAG. Precious metals are a scam. Extra $30K for $3K in metals.

Lange would replace AP here imo

My holy trinity would be Rolex, Seiko and Citizen. But I don't see why Rolex at least wouldn't be in anybody's list?

Much respect for your critical thinking here, and the points you bring up about Jaeger and A. Lange are really compelling... your trio exemplifies the prestige of watch"making," not just the prestige of their names. Just the arbitrary idea of the Holy Trinity is unfortunate for these other companies that dedicate themselves to making their own movements. Thanks for the knowledge!

The moment you have products in the DFS - Duty Free Shops you are no longer exclusive and prestigious

Patek Philippe also used Jaeger LeCoultre movements

A big part of the 'holy trinity' concept is that they're parts of a whole. PP, AP and VC all have very similar offerings from the Calatrava/Patrimony/Jules Audemars to the Genta trio. They aren't necessarily the best, but they do embody the high-end swiss old guard better than any other brands

My holy trinity is Rolex, Grand Seiko, and IWC. As for your picks, to be blunt AP leans on the Royal Oak which I think is an ugly watch.

Totally agree with the A. Lange opinion! If they were a hundred years more established they could be the only Non Swiss trinity brand hands down

When I can buy a watch that costs more than my house, I'll worry about who's in the trinity. Until then, I'll rock a Speedmaster.

I agree that the A Lange should be up there... also the JLC (Watch Maker’s Watch Maker)...

I suppose it depends on what you value most in a watch: the craft of watchmaking, the prestige that comes with wearing a particular brand, the look of a particular watch, or just good marketing. Each to their own.

Patek Calatrava (w/gold hobnail and Roman numerals), JLC Reverso Grande Taille, and Lange Sax O Mat are my all time Grail Icons! I agree with you, Fed.

My trinity would be Vacheron, Patek and Breguet if we are talking swiss. If im taking artistic freedom and am expanding the trinity to a quaternity and removing the swiss requirement, then Lange unquestionably deserves a spot. Nonetheless, Lange will always be an honorable mention when someone brings up the trinity. I know you arent a fan of Vacheron, which i think is based on a sour personal experience like customer service but Frederico, in my humble opinion you are very critical of Vacheron and i think you should base your opinion on their offerings, history, quality, and innovation. There is no denying the fact that Vacheron has contributed alot, if not the most to swiss watchmaking. They definitely deserve to be a part of the Trinity. I agree with your comments on AP. Having said that if im talking sports watches, my favourite watch is the Royal Oak chronometer. Not because it is a hype watch, but because i just LOVE the bracelet design. Im not a watch collector by any means, im just a regular guy who enjoys watches. Im neither an expert on movements. Im fortunate enough to enjoy some watches from the trinity and a couple Rolexes so im giving you my two cents based on that. I dislike the Nautilus to the point that even if someone gave me one for free, i might not take it. It really bugs me how Patek keeps trying to ride the Genta wave. Thankfully they do have the 5270, 5204, and 5208 which i really really like. For VC, i really like the traditionnelle, and cornes de vache. I also quite like the Overseas.

The Holy Trinity is and will always be PP, AP and VC...only enthusiasts have heard of Lange and only the Lange 1 is popular...AP Royal Oak and Offshore (an entirely different watch) and now Code 11:59 (case looks like a Lange 1 if not better) plus ownership stake in RM cements AP in Trinity...you can add Journe, RM, Moser, Hublot etc. to Lange...Rolex is probably most deserving in any Trinity discussion based upon their place in the world

I wouldn't say the Top 3 but the oldest 3 technically 4 if you count JLC which has ties to AP,VC Rolexdoes more sales but ive seen Rolex turn to shite. It is a watch made by watchmakers for watchmakers thats the way i view Rolex. The other 4 are indeed very special historically and technically.

You F, don't you think A Lange and FP Journe should be there?

What are the criteria that gets you into the trinity? Hodinkee have published an interesting article online regarding the Holy Trinity. JLC haven't made watches for an amount of their existence, they made movements and so thats them out. Lange ceased to exist for 40/50 years after WW2, they're out. Oh and Lange aren't Swiss so they aren't allowed for that either (another silly rule). VC, AP, PP have always made Haute Horologie and have always been in existence, that sets them apart from all others. Personally I think there are more criteria than what Hodinkee mention that would get you into the trinity. A companies contribution to watchmaking, world firsts, innovations, sales figures across their ENTIRE range (not just Royal Oak or Nautilus/Aquanaut) , the general public feeling. Personally its pointless to limit to 3, we all know there are several world class watch makers depending on your tastes and budget.

I don't really care for the idea of a "holy trinity" because it's strictly for posers, but I'd agree that some recognition should go to watchmakers that preserve the tradition of producing mechanical movements using old world watchmaking skills. So perhaps my holy trinity would only include low-volume independent watchmakers. They produce true objets d'art! Federico, when it comes down to it, which type of mechanical would you rather own: A watch made almost completely by hand using traditional materials or one made by computer controlled machines/robots using high-tech materials with a high-end brand name?

No I don’t agree with it because AP is listed within......the most hideous high end watches available. I do agree Patek and VC hold the top two spots with plenty of great offerings. I place Rolex as third only because they make attractive, reliable, jack hammers.....that is a great accomplishment in and of itself. Wear everyday in everything you do.

Agree, specially about AP, its just Royal Oak, nothing else, I have an off shore and always wonder why they ahve such a demand. PP has its own position and VC you know, finishing and design is something different from other ones. about Lange i totally agree with you , really deserves it as its a full package. JLC is really respectable but except for Reverso the rest has a big problem, its the case design mostly that doesnt make you feel like a prestigious watch, if they consider redesign of round cases they will be so more desirable. also you should not neglect Breguet as an important player in history of watch making. I think in near future there will be more than 3 and at least it will be 4 best ones. thanks for your videos, i recently watched some and really enjoyed it.

The whole concept is arbitrary and meaningless; it's about perceptions, not the watches themselves. However, that doesn't mean it's not fun to discuss one's own perceptions. For me it's about contribution to the history and emergence of what a watch is today and what it will be tomorrow, innovation and perfection, past and present. Precious metals matter less than fine movements. Marketing matters less than patents. For my holy trinity: Indisputably Jaeger LeCoultre and Breguet, and for the third one I'm just gonna throw it out there: Blancpain

Listen I watched your videos and I agreed with many of your videos and not agreed with many of your videos,honestly I love watches and I have been buying,selling and trading watches for over 20 years I am not doing this for profit more for love,I have one question to you when did Rolex became so demanding cause new Daytona all gold around 10 years ago was 20 000 those vintage 35 or 36mm Rolex were in the 1000 range the sub used in excellent shape were in the 3000 range and nobody cared about Tudor they were not more than 700$ most of the models used and this is maybe only 10 years ago more or less

AP is pure overrated garbage and breguet is the most underrated brand. But this guy knows nothing about VC. The fact that JLC made movements for them doesn’t take away from their history. At least he didn’t say Rolex so I’ll give him some credit.

Prestige watches described in your video are not measured by the sales but by the craftsmanship. PP VC & AP have a history of watchmaking like no other, hance the name wholy trinity. Real enthusiasts respect these watches not because of the price tags but because of the fact that watchmakers spent years putting together a timepiece with parts almost impossible for human eye to see even under big magnifying glass.

IMHO Rolex is a 'victim' of it's own success here. If it didn't produce so many watches, and hence would be exclusive, it would be on this list, given the fine movement, history of achievements and finishing quality.

thank you for mentioning lange!

Aside from taking exception to using the term Holy Trinity for time pieces... I also would remove AP from this list and add JLC. AP in the last 10 years has become pretty tacky (well for a high end luxury brand). Especially the royal oak line, my God. Walk around LA long enough and go to a few parties there, and you'll eventually happen upon a sea of AP's adorning the ugly, tattooed, left arms of some pretty fake plants. As they stagger around drunk and angry, one can get pretty turned off to anything they associate/align themselves to.

Federico, nailed it square on the head!!! I have always wondered who in the world put AP in the "holy trinity". Seriously, royal oak, that's it! Lol Your trinity is perfect! I agree 100%

I defer to your judgment and experience. It's kinda fun to hear the relative merits of wonderful watches, which unfortunately I could never afford.

you're absolutely right Federico, the best high-end watches being produced right now have "Lange" stamped on their bum. How can you have a 'holy trinity' if it doesn't even include the watch that God himself would wear (a Datograph Perpetual Tourbillon)?

The main reason is their uninterrupted heritage unlike other brands they have been continually making watches since their inception. JLC was a movement maker not a watch maker hence why ...

Nice video, I still need to get a VC. Unfortunately, I can't find a piece that I love. I was looking at the harmony chrono., but I bought the ALS Datograph U/D instead. The ladies harmony dual time (rose gold & encrusted with diamonds) is beautiful, but I couldn't wear it in public :-P

Great video! I absolutely agree with your analysis and proposed restructuring of the "Holy Trinity" to include JKC and Lange.

Great video, completely agree that Lange should have a spot in the trinity

My holy trinity is Orient, Citizen, and Invicta.

I agree with you, Fed. Lange is right there at the top in my mind. A “relative bargain.”

Right on, your holy trinity is the same as mine.

I also see it as PP, VC and Lange. JLC if needing to stay Swiss. PP and VC are solid. AP is a one hit wonder.

I agree with you completely JLC is one of my favourite timepiece brand.

pp, ap, vc holy trinity period

Patek did use JLC movements

Always enjoy your videos. The old 'Holy Trinity' in watches is out dated I think. For prestige I'd go PP, Lange and Cartier. For everyday sensible watches that are affordable (within the range of being affordable to most ordinary folks) with in-house movements I'd go Seiko, Nomos and Frederique Constant manufacture movement watches.

I completely agree with you.

If I'm not mistaken you, said AP only offers their sports models in steel, which, in the case especially of their higher complications in the Royal Oak lineup, is inaccurate. I'm unsure with VC, but I know some of the RO models are offered in both gold and platinum, if not at least gold.

Hi Federrico, love your chanel! When the "holy trinity" expression came out (late 80's), those were the only 3 top brands that were still privitly owned (not owned by conglomerads like RICHMONT or LVMH) and that had a story spanning over a century. Right now actually only PP still complies with this (of course still 100% owned and managed very well by the Stern family) but the term "holy trinity" sticked in and kept being used because it was an informal thing, nowere were any rules or requirements written. Besides JLC, I think that Breguet and Lange also would have a plave in a trinity of some sort, but these last two do not comply with the "being swiss" requirement. Actually right now, I think actually Lange is making the best watches. Powerfull all round colection (not just based in one or two models), iconic pieces (like the chrono up/down and the lange 1) and absolutly inovative pieces like the double split, the Lange 31 and of course the beautifull Zeitwerk which won all the hourology awards possible when it was launched - even from the swiss entities!

Federico! Speaking of A. Lange & Söhne, when will you be picking up a Lange 1 or 1815? ;)

Federico, I think you are also missing the fact that Vacheron has been making watches since 1755 where as JLC started in 1833, so Vacheron has been around for almost 100 years longer than JLC has, and I think that has a lot to do with why its regarded as a more prestigious brand

Great video! I always thought that the holy trinity included JLC instead of AP

Guys what about Rolex i think it should be in the holy trinity!

No Invicta? Great vid.