The Illusion of 'Free Will', The Psychology Behind Donald Trump, and The Science of Stress 

I've been listening to Prof. Sapolsky frequently since discovering him a couple of months ago. His viewpoints on different topics across various disciplines are enlightening. This podcast illustrated how he makes his point succinctly and with humble eloquence. He shows his genius while looking straight across to his conversation partners, not down at them. And to express his opinion of fascism infiltrating the USA right out in public for the world to see is courageous. A mind for the ages. Ya gotta love the guy.

Thank you, Alastair Campbell, for being so decent as to be open and candid about your brother's and your own psychological struggles.

I can't get enough of Sapolsky right now. He's made me feel calmer and easier about my life after ploughing through his books and other interviews. His views on our legal systems blows my mind - especially when there are people who still think capital punishment is a viable option. So inhumane viewing a person's life on what they've done, not how they arrived at the point of doing it. Great interview chaps. Love as always. x

Best lecture on depression I've ever heard was by this wonderful professor.

The best and most enlightening podcast yet. My brain is still buzzing from this man’s gentle wisdom. How to translate his insights to the rest of humanity seems nigh impossible. How many would watch it as a TV programme. If only!

Sapolsky is the one who ought to be leading this country. He’s one of the smartest primates alive.

What a lovely guy full of insight. Thank you for bringing him to us.

Dr.Sapolsky is my favorite scientist in the world! We are so lucky to have RU-vid so he can educate people worldwide and not just in the academic realm. To be able to receive such a high quality education for free is just an amazing gift to mankind. Even though advertisers believe it is for them! 🤣

Woweee! What a treat to hear you guys converse with Dr. Sapolsky, I never tire of listening to his witty insights, thank you so much 🙏 We all improved our humanity scores just now 😃

I could listen to Sapolsky all day.

There needs to be a part 2 to this. What a fascinating person.

And I'm changed listening to Dr. Sapolsky. I know I need to work on relieving stress. Both for my peace of mind and for my physical health! Thank you!!

Sapolsky's lectures on youtube have been fascinating to me for years. When I started attending university in the early 1970s, brilliant eccentrics, intellectually challenging, were a common type on campuses. Sadly, American academic life has been industrialized and commercialized to such an extent that academic life now resembles corporate life.

I have to give the interviewer kudos. Supolsky is making the podcast rounds, and Ive probably listened to half a dozen. This interview is different than the rest and includes fascinating personal perspectives.

oh top marks for talking to Robert Sapolsky. This man helped me understand my own mind from his outreach lectures.

Love Professor Sapolsky. I’m 62% through “Determined .” It says so right here 😂 RS is brilliant, humble, authentic, engaging… entertaining. Big fan. His work has ‘changed’ me. Excellent conversation. Well done. Thank you. Best wishes.

A deeply fascinating interview. If you don't have the time to listen to the whole thing start at 38 minutes, Mr Sapolskys insights are gold! Thanks to you both for making this interview possible.

Sapolsky is awesome. A man who understands the scientific method.

Absolutely marvelous one suddenly realised that there are intelligent people in the world after all. I am going to listen to this podcast a few times more thank you both again

Thank the gods for Robert Sapolski. We're so lucky to have people as good and smart as him in our species.

Outstanding guest.

For me, the best podcast yet. I could listen to Robert Sapolsky all day long. I love his lectures and his books.

This, with some reflection & goodwill, could be an incredibly beneficial philosophy for many people & perhaps society at large. Thank you for asking some probing questions on it all to allow Sapolsky to provide practical examples!

Knowing that I have no control whatsoever over most of the things that go around my life gave me a level of freedom that I can't describe. I still care about doing the right stuff but if anything goes wrong I don't blame myself if I'm sure that everything I've done was right and for the best interest of my community. That came after watching all Sapolsky's BIO-150 lectures uploaded to RU-vid by Stanford. Also it's the first time I heard more in-depth details about his wife and family being with him in the field. Gotta love him: as professor, writer, storyteller and human being. Thank you for being who you are, Prof. Sapolsky.

Robert Sapolsky had a course at his university for free on youtube. Ive listened to it thrice. Amazing that one can get to hear the "raving lunatic coming down from the mountain / in from the desert" and hear his revelations. In his case it isnt as much a raving lunatic as a human who actually came back with something that we all become better for hearing. Thank you, Robert!

Yall are getting a great conversation out of Robert. He's my favorite primate ❤

Sapolsky is the man of the moment. The voice of reason we have been yearning for in these crazy times. You can find a video of him lecturing on trans people which goes against the anti-trans claims. He goes beyond basic ABC biology and goes deep into all the research. I’m so relieved this brilliant man is becoming mainstream.

Whatever the reason Dr. Sapolsky decided to join you on your podcast at 1 in the morning I’m happy. I’ve watched several of his lectures from years ago, an intelligent and fascinating man. Interesting but not surprising how his wife’s presence impacted the field work of the baboons. Good work, keep it up guys! More guests like this the better.

One the most mesmerising, fascinating, and uplifting podcasts I have seen. Sapolsky's gentle flow of insight and after insight is a breath of fresh air. What a great episode 👏 🙏

I have watched so many interviews with Dr. Sapolski. This is the most respectful from/with people who asked intelligent questions.

What a fantastic communicator Sapolsky is. I am sure that there are reasons to have him on again at a future date 🤞😊

Thank you for hosting Robert ❤ he is a gift to humanity!

What a guest! You found a real gem. My favourite part (forgive the paraphrase): The Serengeti is a great place to be a baboon. Your gang is big enough even the lions don't bother you. You get enough to eat in three hours of foraging. That leaves 8 hours a day to make life miserable for the rest of your troop. A great metaphor for humans! :)

Been listening and following Sapolsky for years. Love his Stanford lectures. His students were so fortunate to learn from him. He’s just brilliant!

OMG. You got Robert Sapolsky!!! You guys are ON FIRE! Well done.

But it also a two-way relation. When your health is poor, you are likely financially and socially poor. And when you are not having access to health care, and you are isolated because your health is bad, it only gets worse from there. It's the other way around then. Your bad health predicts low social economic status.

This is your best episode. A fascinating man. I need to hear more from Dr. Robert Sapolsky.

The whole Stanford series is available here on RU-vid and well worth watching. Sapolsky is great at teaching difficult concepts and making it easy and entertaining for the layperson to understand.

Im an engineer. I dont like social stress. It feels evil. I dont like bullies. I cant watch police shows with evil psychopaths. Even now in my old age, It makes me want to fight even want to kill. I dont hate them but i feel it would be community service to eliminate this toxic bs. For my whole life i never liked even mildly toxic leaders, which for long time i felt like i had problem with authority. I want to see everyone as social equal, but if you try and dominate me. i become enraged and want to fight. Which when i was young was a serious problem. I control this now and deal with these feelings now i am strong enough that i can dismiss by laughing at them, if they are a real threat its a different story, thankfully this almost never happens in real life anymore. I 100% agree that whole concept of justice even social justice is a problem. It should be based on helping people and prevention of harm, has nothing to do with blame, revenge, what you deserve or doing your time or paying for crime. Anyone who is in jail that is not harmful should be released. Anyone who hurts people or society should not be released. People who can be helpec should be helped regardless of whether they desrve it or not. In general hate is probably the most serious problem and crime. People who hate should be prevented from hurting others, and we help them if we can but weird socio pscho path dont a need to be hated and can be usefully controlled if you know how.

I could listen to this guest for hours what a very interesting gentleman he is. I began to feel myself relaxing as he spoke, it's a relief to know there are good people with his intellect in society.

This is the first The Rest is Politics podcast I've watched. The fact that you are both former politicians makes your exploration of these issues more striking and relevant than if you had not been. It isn't just about abstract science, it's about how we can best deal with the problems of humanity. Well done. I'm a new subscriber.

Great to watch and listen to three humans in conversation, that gives me hope for humanity... Thank you. 🐰

An utterly fascinating and coherent discussion. It is the measure of a great teacher to make such complex concepts simple and accessible.

I laughed at the end. By the time I'd got half way through I'd ordered a couple of his books from Amazon.

Thank you for exposing me to this fascinating man's mind! So much food for thought.

What a fascinating individual, really engaging and as close to emitting wisdom as we can hope for in these contemporary times.

Sapolsky is fantastic. I could listen to him all day. He has brilliant lectures on Stanford website. The one about depression is particularly good. 👍 Great guest to have on ❤

Best episode you’ve ever had. ‘What could a politician learn about studying baboons’ says Alistair comically ;) Robert is a once in a century thinker. His ability to explain the most complex ideas into simple accessible language is unmatched. His Book Behave is a game changer

Sapolsky for world king! This was one of the best chats with him I've heard, fantastic to see his ideas reaching this audience.

The best podcast so far , you guys need to do a part 2 .

I first came across Robert Sapolsky when I was studying behavioural ecology. He's an amazing speaker, an incredible intellectual. Great!

This is absolutely fascinating. Brilliant guest!

I could listen to Sapolsky for hours. In fact, I have. I listened to all of his Stanford lectures. He's the best professor and has a great sense of humor. Love him.❤

Thanks, Sapolsky is a great communicator and scientist. Having read all his books more than once and every time I learn something new which helps me immensely in my work as an NHS physiotherapist. Look beyond their immediate presentation to try and understand the why of their behaviour.

This guy gave me a Stanford education. I adore him. So easy to listen to. Anyone that has had the privilege of sitting in his classroom is very lucky

Sapolski is the most self aware, honest person on the planet.

This was an amazing interview. Thank you for introducing him to your audience. Looking forward to exploring more of his insights and knowledge. Fascinating man with an incredible mind.

When I first read and heard Professor Sapolsky, I thought his ideas were absurd. But I listened to him more, read, and thought about his ideas more, and I came to believe he's on to something. I urge one not to dismiss him out of hand but to think deeply about his ideas. I think you'll be surprised.

Wise, insightful, humble guy. Incredible, thoroughly enjoyed this guest💛

Great guest and interview. 33:30 Host asks a great question about the long term mental and physical consequences of the profound income inequality we experience now. Highly recommended.

Superb content. A wonderful guest and outstanding questions from Rory and Alastair which drew out an amazing dialogue for us to enjoy. Thanks so much.

I have been watching him for years...such a cool guy

This is your best yet, Dr Sapolsky is an immensely gifted communicator. More of him please.

I thought for years that I had no free will until I freely changed my mind and decided I did.

I found this fascinating as a mental health social worker, social stress it’s a very damaging aspect of life. The impacts of bullying for example, can change your physiology and developmental milestones and cause lifelong trauma

Just discovered Dr Sapolsky and I'm sure glad I did! What an absolute gem of a scientist and human being!!!! Thoroughly enjoyed listening to every second of this!!!! Coincidentally, my young adult daughter and I were having a discussion a few days ago about good stress vs bad stress. There certainly is a reason roller coasters don't last three hours. LOL ☺

Great guest! Have watched his wonderful lectures for a long time!❤

I was a Prrofessional Engineer. I designed water and wastewater plants. Ioved the work. It was very rewarding in many ways.

Wow. I find this concept so freeing! As someone who suffers from depression and suicidality, the notion that I don't have free will and am not responsible for the whole disaster is a great feeling. It also makes me feel a lot less judgmental of other people - both successful and unsuccessful. Surely, this is the most equanimous way of looking at human beings and life in general.

Basic in psychology of humans is that "bullies" bully because of a feeling of inferiority.

Wonderful guest and great interview! One of the best yet guys. Please can we have a pt2?

Would love an interview with Gabor - particularly on the Israel/Palestine situation!

What a fantastic interview. Met him in Kenya years ago! Handles everything from "The Spirit Level" to Ted Hondrich's "Determinism" to Rawlsian obligation... very compelling!

Dr Sapolsky is an amazing human being and this is why you kept calling him Robert.

Listen to Sapolsky's talks in the Great Courses series. Incredible knowledge and such great delivery.

What a kind, wise man - and interviewed by such enlightened individuals. Listening to this did my stressed-out heart good.

I heard a hilarious Radiolab podcast years ago with Dr Sapolsky, about stress. It tells the great story of how an upholsterer whose job it was to repair the chairs in a heart surgeon's waiting room made the connection between stressful personality and heart disease. They've also interviewed him about his work with the baboon troupe. Definitely worth hunting for.

This was a great discussion. Understanding human behavior is incredibly relevant to politics. Would love to hear more like this. Thank you.

Wild to see Sapolsky pop up on this podcast! Of course we don't have free will. What would that even mean? It's a logically inconsistent idea. In terms of what you do about it- I realised there couldn't be free will on a cycling holiday when I was 14, since when I've had 30-odd years to sit with it. Practically, you just can't hold that knowledge in your head all the time. You carry on doing whatever you'll do, you continue experiencing life as though you have free will until it comes to mind. It doesn't affect my day to day life very much.

It's easy to confuse the lack of free will with determinism. Just because free will does not exist, does not mean that events are pre-written and follow a script and stage instructions. As individuals, we have an autonomy and can make choices (this is also an illusion) - it's that every element to your decision making is never "self-made". Your empathy is directly correlated to your neurology which in turn is linked to your environment or your genetics, your particular biological chemistry at each second. Humans are social animals, which is why our empathic abilities are so dominant. If we engage with each other with clarity and our mutual benefits and development in mind, we could create the world in a more caring image. The loss of the radical illusion of free will is a baby step. What's more troubling is that in the whole of the known history of humanity, we have a tendency to create and exalt grand systems that muddy our humanity. Arguably, the biggest political problem - now and through the whole history of revolutionary or radical idealism - is how to deal with the rather distrubing-undisturbed "mass" who feel politically de-motivated and uninterested in shaping the world in any way, let alone in any democratic sense. The seemingly growing political apathy will rise because the political machine is incapable of addressing it. Politicians (as image) - as long as I have known - have never addressed any idea of general well-being or happiness of a population, or humanity at large. Even the communists or socialists hold as much importance on 'production' and 'exchange' as capitalists do. The day a politician could sell the idea of creating a society in which the majority of its members (not the wealthy) could actually live to enjoy their lives would be radical. However, I would imagine they will have the strange difficulty in having to make it convincing for many.

What a great interview! He really should come back, this has more legs than just one episode dedicated to it!

So, we vote for what we admire and not what we need.

This was phenomenal. Such legendary insight.

Sapolsky is a legend.

It was an absolute pleasure this leading one.

...the more I think about it, the more disturbed I am with the no free will idea. I see no reason to exist if it's true.

Congrats on today's podcast featuring the good Professor! Such a stimulating conversation that left me pondering long after it ended. Well done chaps.

AS sufferer here, I'm just about 70 years old, first diagnosed in my early twenties, and I cannot recall how many prescriptions for AS I have been prescribed that ended up killing people and were removed from the market🙃

I just stumbled upon your podcast by way of searching for Sapolsky. Great episode! I am a long time fan of Robert Sapolsky and I agree with the other comments here. This is a Fantastic guest! Very nice pull for your channel. With guests of this high quality. I'm sure you guys will keep growing.

This man is a national treasure here. One of the best communicators about an aspect of life that's inescapable. Nice interview.

This was an excellent episode - more of this sort of thing please!

In eight years of listening to interesting stuff on YT, this has been the most engaging! I'll buy the book too - hopefully not from Amazon though. Terrific.

Thank you to you both for the way you conducted this interview. Absolutely fascinating. Worth watching a second time.

There were people throughout history who thought differently than the masses. That is why we have progressed.

Robert is fantastic and captivating to listen to. Came across him in his contribution in the zeitgeist addendum documentary by Peter Joseph some fifteen years ago or so. Great episode.

Dr. Sapolsky displays his genius once again. Will I be reading his latest book? Yes. Yes, I will. Thanks for posting this interview. I've been a fan of Robert Sapolsky since I watched his lectures (for FREE) here on RU-vid.

Dr. Sapolsky might as well have been studying today's House of Representatives.

This is real education. Imagine learning this as a young child? I was bored to tears in education even though I performed well. I now unlearn most of what I was taught through this kind of thinking

"If we don't have free will, then why do anything?" I think there's an obvious answer here, which is: if you don't have free will, you're going to do it anyway because of how you are constructed. Let's say you don't have free will, but you want to have it, or want to prove you have it, or simply don't believe that you don't have it, you're going to do something. So it doesn't matter whether you have free will or not. You're still going to do it.

Discussing *if* we have free will is a pointless exercise. It totally depends on the definition of free will. Some definitions would lead to us having free will, others won't.