The image you can't submit to journals anymore 

I have a relatively simple question Is cereal a type of (cold) soup, like gazpacho is

How’d you learn computer graphics for videos

Why the switch from google earth?

No questions, just a shout-out for doing a cool thing w the revenue on this one. Hope this vid does well💜

Is itchy an emotion?

i was gonna like but i realized this comment has 69 likes

STHAP!!!

@@snark894 Great name and profile picture

I only read it for the articles!

This is Madness im getting out of here

I'd almost be proud. You shot for horni but hit the bullseye for science.

​@@monad_tcp Bruh the original Lena image is low quality because it was a scan in the 70's. An _iPhone 6_ takes images 32 times better in terms of quality 💀

@@MultiNaruto900 yea I liked that line ..funny thing is iPhone 6 is 10 years old .. I still remember the original iPhone

@@mark-kg7wg And I instantly feel old. My birth year starts with a 1 💀

@@MultiNaruto900 But an iPhone nowadays cannot take beautiful subjects like they did back then thanks to woke culture.

I thought that was funny as well!

I think that's a giant d*ck in the water

I wasn't looking at the screen when that happened and I had to go back and check XD

My grandmother was a Wren as well! I don't think she worked on decoding (if she did, she was a very good secret keeper) but she was sent to modern day Myanmar to serve under Lord Mountbatten. Those women were pioneers and such an important part of British history.

@@sollamander2206 That sounds like quite the adventure she got to go on! You're absolutely right, the world would not be as we know it without them.

Thanks to your grandma for her service 🫡

The wrens, the women’s land army (which my great grandmother was in), the female night wardens, fire wardens (which my other great grandmother did in the middle of poplar, a pretty heavily bombed area of London), the female factory workers, nurses, spies and more carried out country through the war, and will never get enough. We can never thank them enough.

Also you have a human face, so if anything changed it would be immediately uncanny ;)

The fact that pick up line would probably work on me...........

@@isweartofuckinggod *STEMlords furiously taking notes*

@@davidgustavsson4000 😂

yes.

My intro signal processing professor also didn’t tell me it was a cropped nude when it was provided as the test input, which weirded the whole class out when we found out a week later. We got over it fast because the explicit parts were cropped out and the assignment was over, but we all would’ve liked to be informed of its history and been allowed to use alternative famous images like doge.

say it was intentional so everyone thinks you are a genius

what’s that title??? sounds interesting

and the top line of pixels was man-made, too

I had no idea either, until many years later. It was just one of those photos that was in every paper, like the baboon and the peppers and stuff, and the postscript tiger and Utah teapot: and it was in all the image collections, so easy to get hold of. I guess I'd assumed it was from a home shopping catalogue or something at the time. It's kinda creepy when you find out about it. I mean, I can see some dopey postgrad not getting why it was a problem, but it's pretty amazing it got past the PIs and the journals and everything.

"You know C++? Name 3 of their albums" sent me

Absolutely based of him to do this, incredible work of impeccable researching and pure pettiness

No it's definitely frustrating that the ideal woman for many in that world was only involved distantly, passively, and for their convenience.

Yeah calling a random pornstar the patron saint feels a bit…weird?

The feeling I got reading that was the same feeling I get when rickrolled.

​@@mathematicalmachinery7934 Lenarolled

That’s hilarious! How long have you been out of school?

@@jdk9673 about 5 years.

Now you are famous as projector person

Immortalised in the realm of the machines.

lol I expected it to be an image of what you where holding not you, that would spook me a lil but cool none the less.

It doesn't really end until a better replacement completely replaces it everywhere. That information is also crucial

she allowed the image to be published. You cant withdraw consent years after the fact. Otherwise every single person who has an ex who they regret being with can be defined as a rapist

​@@noahhill841it's just a nice thing to do? no one is forbidding anyone from using the image, it's not illegal. they just recommend against it in their style guide because it would be kinda weird to keep insisting on using this porn image in academic papers after you've been specifically asked not to by the person in it.

​@@noahhill841 Bro how did we go from withdrawing consent for an intellectual property such as a photo pose to talking about withdrawing consent for "the act". Women or any other person should be able to withdraw consent for photos published even decades before. Don't overthink it.

@@noahhill841 She consented to it being published in Playboy, but not to it being reproduced without permission and used by a bunch of computer scientists for 50 years. Those computer scientists broke copyright law and she's justified in asking for it to be retired.

Wow that's great! What subject was the class?

Answer Waka

answer waka

answer waka

Answer waka

As you damn well should've

You are my hero

The professors know.

Yeah, “accepting the limitations and understanding how they affect the results” is a valid response.

@@nirmithra1 the phrase;Activate Windows. That is all

thats also the origin of the joke they made about it "the first time a real bug was found in a computer" or something like that

yeah, wasn't it used in knitting?

so the question might rather be: when was the first documented use of the term “bug”, meaning a defect, for computers specifically? Was it the same event as finding the moth?

"This soup is good! Kind of tastes different than last time though." "Oh, there's a few bugs in it."

@@MynameisBrianZX The first use is from 1878, when Thomas Hughes quoted a letter by Thomas Edison (yeah, Edison invented the bug): "I have the right principle and am on the right track, but time, hard work and some good luck are necessary too. It has been just so in all of my inventions. The first step is an intuition, and comes with a burst, then difficulties arise - this thing gives out and [it is] then that "Bugs" - as such little faults and difficulties are called - show themselves and months of intense watching, study and labor are requisite before commercial success or failure is certainly reached."

I don't think it has to do so much with the history of computing but rather its culture if that makes sense. Just imagine a candy you had often when you were younger, imagine that for 20 or so years you had said candy every once in a while. Then the company goes bankrupt and there will no longer be anymore of said candy, it is a sad event. Why is it sad? the candy may have not been your favorite and you may have not had it for a couple of years already but it's still upsetting. You don't need to know the history of said candy or the company's founding or the reasons for its eventual bankruptcy. All you need to know is that the candy bar was there when you were 3, and 6, and 10, and so on (and that it no longer will be). There is an idea of identity which goes something like "you are what you repeatedly do" in a similar vein, we become the things and people and experiences that we have had. The discontinuation of the candy is also a part of us which no longer is, essentially death. OfCourse this all seems rather dramatic for what is essentially just no longer having a specific candy or in this case no longer using this picture, but I truly believe this is sort of the emotional underpinnings of why people attempt to resist change (even when its warranted). As for my opinion I think the image should probably be phased out because it seems to potentially be making things more difficult for woman studying this field (especially considering how they have already been screwed over in the past with the cultural push of men = computer). The image also seems to longer hold much value in the field and may actually be preventing progress which is never good. This being said, I think it is important to be empathetic and understanding towards the people who are losing a small part of their culture as I feel this video made a fairly good job at doing.

"Don't erase the history of computing!" > Proceeds to call ENIAC the first fully programmable computer and completely erases Konrad Zuse from the history books, even though he built the Z3 nearly 5 years before ENIAC was a thing

thats cool! I vaguely recall a pepper brush being in that art program - its cool that its part of that image! :O

Another Fun Fact: The founder of the GNU project (which made GIMP) jokingly said in an email about the brush that GIMP stands for "green is my pepper"

I saw Peppers and my jaw dropped with recognition

ah yes, the classic r/linuxmemes "made with gimp" watermark

gnu is my pepper :)

That'd be too much fun. Instead, we got a grim reminder of how much of a boy's club the field of Computer Science is.

In a way, that was actually the point of the video. The cognitohazard is way more boring than most SCPs, but the core of the problem is how this picture from a nudie mag changes the way researchers engage with each other and their work. That’s why journals are pushing to keep people from using it - allowing it to remain so constantly prominent is exposing everybody who reads your journal to the cognitive effects of seeing a 50 year old picture from a nudie mag used instead of anything more appropriate for the work in large part because of a system-wide temper tantrum thrown by jerks who would rather call women names anonymously than just let nudie mags stop being something you keep with you in your work space. The horror in SCPs is rooted in this type of real-world struggle to combat widespread ideas about what is or isn’t okay. What if you had to tell people not to perform a play or they’d all die? What if you had to tell people to never blink all at the same time in the same room as this statue? What if you had to tell people to stop making women uncomfortable? It’s not as much fun, but it is exactly the same type of stuff

@@sideways5153 okay so now what youre gonna do is take this concept, run with it and write a top rated page,

I thought something similar. You could even write a short story, like the image has hidden information in it that cause harm in several levels. Like the Lord of the flies that Stalislav Lem describes in his fiction His Master's Voice (an incredibly rich book that describes academic internal politics in a degree that only a person that lived it could write about).

I mean it does have memetic properties. It induces erections and can cause coomers to commit domestic violence against their dick.

Thats why we say let em cook, when we mix up the Hydrochloric Acid with the Sulfuric Acid.

procrastinated so hard they made an entire 30 minute video by the end

@@thezipcreator the procrastination vibe we should all toil to attain.

@@thezipcreator Yea, that's the point. If you really don't want to do something you will even find yourself funding, writing, producing, directing and acting in indie B horror movie just to escape task supposed to do.

Completely recontextulizes the video and I'm here for it

@@0NeeN0 6. How to procrastinate submitting a paper. 6.1 do anything but submit the paper. … this even includes reading other papers and maybe making a 30minute RU-vid video about your experience of ‘procrastinating submitting a paper’

std, boost, and qt.

CodeBlocks, Visual Studio, Eclipse But they did too many to put them in some "Brackets" of genre, maybe if they were more Sublime then Texts would be even more engaging, maybe then they would be worthy writing in some Notepad so you can share them with some friends + family + partner. PS. Sorry for that horrible pun-software thing, can't even call it a joke. Couldn't stop myself

@@0NeeN0 Ergh. Mainstream. You should have been there for the Borland days.

​@@watchm4ker true, i just took 4 years 16-20 yo with C++, Python, Java, web design (HTML5, CSS, JS for frontend and PHP + databases for backend) while learning at the same time networks, servers (and network protocol settings both on windows and Linux [Debian to be specific]). And "manual" side of things like building PCs, soldering, theory, binary, octal, hexadecimal logic gates etc. Also besides normal English (I'm Polish) we had to took specific English lessons just for computer/electronic terminology.

@@watchm4ker So I'm jack of all trades but if you give me something semi-professional from any thing that I listed I probably couldn't do it. And I'm 21 so I don't remember Borland days xD

*distant screaming in Humans Never Learn*

*cries out in when will you learn, that your actions have CONSEQUENCES*

Yeah... AI art generators are the stuff of nightmares for people like me. Partially because of privacy issues (i dont like people using images of me without permission) and I'm a digital artist. Technology such as these AI art generators could and likely already has destroyed jobs and commission opportunities for artists. Because why would you pay an artist hundreds or thousands of dollars when you can just press a few buttons for free? But aside from that, there's another big issue: the use of artists' works for training AI software to be able to perfectly replicate those works. Something that is very close to being copyright infringement. And basically all these only have an option to OPT OUT. Your work is AUTOMATICALLY INCLUDED UNLESS YOU CONTACT EACH ONE TO GET EACH OF YOUR WORKS REMOVED FROM THE SOFTWARE. It's incredibly shady and scummy. And it could pose serious legal issues. I hope that if these generators are going to stick around, there will be at the very least regulations put in place that requires prior permission from the owner of the image before it can be used.

Of anything it's worst, because now people are doing with the justification that "all the outputs are totally non-copyrightable, we totally didn't steal them from actual artists, don't worry about, just march straight into the future."

@@BeepBoopBee I must confess that I actually did use an AI art generator to make a "stock image" so I didn't have to pay for one. I ended up having a conversation with a friend about it, though, and realised I was doing a shitty thing, and bought what turned out to be a nicer human-made photo. The sad thing is I'm actually an artist myself, and nearly did the cheapskate thing all of us hate.

Just to be clear, just like the Wilhelm scream, this whole thing has long run its course. At best it's annoying at this point.

I learned about Lena in a signal filtering class at CS college. The image is so omnipresent. If you didn't know about Lena image, you didn't know about image processing at all.

And most sound designers find the Wilhelm scream to be outdated and extremely campy. You aren't pushing boundaries by using the Wilhelm scream.

@@Game_Hero because this is the RU-vid comments section and bad-faith interpretations are the norm. Why do you ask?

@@lottieluna123 that's what I meant with my "just to be clear" section the other commenter found unnecessary 😄

There’s so much unchecked horniness out there

Its giving me post nut clarity vibes

Going viral on the ARPANET.

Ngl as an art student sometimes when I look at nsfw content I think “damn they’d be perfect in figure drawing class look at how prominent that iliac crest is” so I don’t doubt it lol.

Reading Playboy "for research purposes".

Yes, isnt it wonderful how freedom of speech is shrinking, everything is politicized, and men are demonized. We are getting to Geroge Orwell's 1984 don't worry

This is probably further reason to retire it, people who don't know the context of the photo assume it can't be anything controversial because it's everywhere, and then it leads to some uncomfortable situations with people in the know. More than that though your takeaway to always research the origin of pics is a super important lesson with how quickly images can be spread

@@amoureux6502 or maybe academia needs to inform students of these issues or journals need to keep records so they can gently explain this to first time offenders. Being screamed at for a mistake made with no malice can cause massive harm to a good person who messed up. Explaining why a certain source is outdated can do wonders. It sounds like an issue of education and communication after a certain period. It is like a tradesman (or woman) not telling a young one about the mistakes of the old days. And then expecting them not to follow 90 year old manuals to the letter.

That is silly. The Lena image when cropped is not porn

@@iHATEbigots666 I don't consider it porn even if not cropped. Of course, it shows a naked woman. So what. May some men risen in an atmosphere of prudery be overwhelmed by sexual desire whenever they see so, I'm not (particularly it the image is processed much, removing any "beauty faults" such as pigment dots). However, the real issue with the typical male look on a naked woman or a picture of her isn't even sexual desire itself but rather that this woman to many is an _object_ of desire. "A sex symbol is a thing and I hate being a thing," Marilyn Monroe once said.

@@jensphiliphohmann1876 I pretty much agree. I want to consider the other side of the debate here, but I feel like the only reason why people are upset about the Lena image is because we are so very sex-negative in our society. As far as I'm concerned, the Lena image is a picture of a woman existing. It's all very heteronormative as well. I'm a woman that likes women and I'm not sure if anyone seems to remember that it's not only men who like women.

Oh I ticked about the colors but didn't put it together nice catch!

Sort of ironic considering the conclusion of the video was to stop using Lena. Would be a nice touch if at the end, the color palette changed

I thought so, too :)

Wow, that’s incredible! I have some things I’d love to say and talk about here but I’m not supposed to, so I’ll just say that if true, you must have had an amazing grandmother.

@@AnEmu404 Thank you for that and while I'll probably never learn of the work you have done I feel for the self sacrifice of the many people that like my grandmother worked tirelessly only to have society bury their accomplishments with them, I was hit hard with the realisation that so many people like my nan have and still are devoting their life to vital work that they will never be able tp share even with their own family. I'm autistic and often prefer to be alone and yet I could not survive being drowned in the worst of humanity and compelled to live in isolation from your own family like that, my autism is bad enough that I often feel alone in a crowded room but I merely have my overwhelming anxiety holding me back. I really could not manage living with the isolation of being forced to hide my life like that. I struggle enough with the added restrictions that come along with founding a business serving government clients, I can at least try to open up to a friend when that overwhelms me usually, I may not be the best at achieving that but it is a small part of my life thst I must live in isolation under the threat of prison. My grandmother must have dealt with so much more alone that I wouldn't have the strength to survive.

@@seraphina985 wow, the stuff about your nan is interesting, albeit depressing. History also often forgets or re-writes the story of women and/or queer people who have done important work, so it’s vital to keep remembering them. I’m also autistic, and the things I’m not allowed to talk about are actually about someone in my family, but I’ll refrain from expanding on why to be on the safe side. That family member has impressed upon me the importance of alan turing’s work and the toll it took on him (and those who worked with him). I happen to be about to go and study engineering at university, and being autistic and anxiety prone makes the prospect terrifying. Also I happen to be coming to terms with my queer identity so it’s a double whammy. It is possible to survive though, and hopefully even thrive, and i wish you all the best friend.

@@AnEmu404 there are many queer people who have done important work in history. It's just that their sexuality is not the main focus. in fact, how do you know that their work has been ignored or rewritten? Do you know the sexualities of every single person in history?

I would love to see some recorded stories/interviews. While grocery shopping a few years ago, I happened to strike up a conversation with a woman who would have been just starting her career in the '60s. Her stories about the industry back then were fascinating.

Women who have been in tech for decades are amazing, the absolute backbone in computer technology; they really inspire me to continue programming for my CIS degree

What's unfortunate about that? Is it unfortunate that your grandmother actually raised her own children? Why do people place careers above all else?

@@googleuser7771 It's not about the direct suggestion; in general, I think caring for your family is far more important than working at a job, if you have the resources to forgo a profession. It's about how women are suggested to leave a field for largely sexist reasons. You never see "quit your job to raise your family" phrases applied to men, whereas women were seen as only useful for "the bringing forth of strong children." People with passion for their profession can bring a lot of good to a field, and OP's grandmother clearly had a knack for it, given that she kept up with the field for the 50-60 years she was unemployed. I think that's what OP was eluding to.

@@googleuser7771 it’s unfortunate to have to quit a job that you enjoy to cook, clean, and take care of a house. What, do you enjoy doing housework more than a fun hobby?

that’s the point of youtube, man. like i’m a liberal arts student watching ur videos lmfao

@@morganburt2565 long may irrelevant fascinating knowledge continue!

we have like the same taste in youtube videos lol i see you everywhere

It's not useless. use it as a chance to reflect on how you act and think about similar instances in your life. perhaps there is something that you can do to improve the circles you move in using what you learned in this video.

@@kaymish6178 could you give an example?

this is such a nice comment :)

couldn't resist; how slow is your internet connection that jpegs still need to load, let alone load long enough for you to be able to pour one? :P

I love being feminine as a male

This fine detailed work is important - whether within the traditionally female realm of handicraft etc or male realm of... watch/instrument making. I vaguely recall a sociology story about basket weaving or pot making being a man's job in one society but women's work in another🤷‍♂️ My daughter likes making little trinkets from Fimo clay. She makes for friends and even takes commissions. She has a rough idea to become a dentist. I said this intricate work is essential and is even listed alongside the grade requirements for admission to dental programs. I suggested she has a "portfolio" much like an artist. At the interview she can show her work but also time commitment and progression over time.

@@liammhodonohue gendering stuff is stupid and pointless

too bad the womens contributions to this video were completely unnecessary and made the video worse

Ignore that piece of shit, its good that your voices can be heard

I have a genuine question to ask. How and why? I don’t see the relevance in specifically asking women about the image? The ethical aspects to consider about the image is that it was copyrighted and it was from Playboy. But everything sexual was cropped out. It’s just a face, I don’t see the big deal besides the two things I mentioned.

@@killerqueen6054 The field the image is used in is predominated by men. It's not that the picture is sexual, or that it has an iffy copyright history, but that it reflects the disquieting way women in the field can be treated. In an issue about a woman's face that mainly reflects how women were/are perceived among computer scientists, it only makes sense to ask women how they feel about it. Wouldn't it be strange if no women's opinions were included at all?

​@@creativename8275who cares that it's filled by men? If that same picture was actually a male the result wouldn't change

Small suggestion to watch a Jon Bois series, he’s one of the original popularizers of the format

iirc he mentioned he uses blender

This video is stirring my inner rebellious vibes and making me want to publish a paper with a cropped image of a very attractive man from a nude in a Playgirl magazine. Good thing I'm not in the image processing field to make that happen.

@@writershard5065 then get a friend in the feild and do it with them :P

@@writershard5065 if only our society was ready for that level of equality 😄

@@writershard5065 aaand now I'd totally do the same. But I don't do image processing either :/ Edit: I could think of a few people to email though...

@@JohnR436 I doubt anybody would care tbh. Sexualization of men happens all the time and nobody really cares. I mean you still see half naked jacked guys on like every fashion catalog involving men anywhere. Or look at super hero movies and stuff. The only people who would probably care are the ones who are touchy when it comes to things involving porn in general and tend to not want anything to do with it. But idk, I personally dont think it matters too much. Its not like the image itself is actually pornographic. All that stuff was (or would be) cut away.

XDDDD

Lena Soderberg was never in porn.

Yeah that is odd, I mean why on earth would they crop it?!

And yet you used it for an entire course Kind of explained it yourself why it was used

Same. We used this image several times during the course and none of us were aware of the story afaik. (The course instructor was a woman) Honestly, I don't see any problem with the img apart form it being an outdated / lowres sample to test stuff on

It makes sense to me. Scholars are all desperate perverts.

This has actually been done! And the proper rights were acquired beforehand

@@BobbyBroccoli Can we get the DOI reference to that paper? ;D

This is such a better solution than retiring such an iconic piece of history over some largely unrelated discrimination QQ. I mean obviously the discrimination is something we should all regret, but as always the symbols that come from carry the lesson we want people to learn. By removing them we learn nothing. Add a Fabio and we take a step forwards.

Wholeheartedly agree, put that into the universal declaaration of human rights.

@@BobbyBroccoli what are the other 4 images that are being phased out together with lena?

@@snuurferalangur4357 misogyny is not cultural.

"Using a non-sexual image of a woman is misogynistic." Stop trying to find things to get angry at. The real issue with Lena was that it was repetitive.

@@snuurferalangur4357 if misogyny is cultural then you absolutely can demand that culture change.

TBH if the argument against the picture is just the fee fees of feminists who use the term "male gaze" in full seriousness, then the argument is meaningless and I think it should be replaced for something that offends them even further if it is obsolete.

@@qd0t471 what's wrong with it is that the image is under copyright.

@@qd0t471 did you watch the video?

@@qd0t471 There's a time and a place when it is inappropriate to enjoy this that and the next.

@@qd0t471 cmon, stigmatisation has nothing to do with it and you know it. stop using slippery slope arguments. i am a programmer *and* i make adult content on the side and even i think the image was inappropriate

Just browse photographers instas and you'll probably find many replacements

yea

U want to be on a room full of the sweatiest losers in the world F*** no Those "guys" can rot in hell

And I'm starting one where it's all cropped gay furry smut! Even the Cheesegrater image.

@@ChrisD__ assuming college kids arent already on e621

@@circleinforthecube5170 Assuming their professors aren't too.

Whats crazy about it exactly?

@@keto0303 how they got completely erased from it when they've been there from the start, being the driving force for so long.

​@@NachoBearYeahthat's hilarious. No one has been "erased"

@@FUnzzies1 have you not watched this video lmao

@@NachoBearYeah It's on a video, it must be true! Yeah, I watched the hilariously politically biased video. No one has been erased.

why go to all that effort just to preserve a "tradition"? very sus imo

@@AximVidya sus, does the word “tradition” make you think of like the 14 words or something?

​@@DrRyan82994 yes that is what a lot of self-proclaimed "traditionalists" appear to be advocating for

@@DrRyan82994 given that I've almost never heard anybody use the word tradition outside of weird ultranationalistic sentiments, I'd be surprised if it didn't make most people think something similar. Weird how quickly you jumped to the 14 words though, they on your mind a lot?

​@@Jane-oz7pp You've never heard people talk about their cultural traditions? like Hispanic, Latino, Native American, African, Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, etc traditions? You're really missing out on the majority of human experiences if you've never had a talk with someone about their traditions.

@@omp199 this is true! Even if scripted it's a good line for the general documentary imo.

I especially like that she wanted her name spelled more phonically so it would be pronounced properly. Way to own yourself and your sex appeal. She’s clearly beautiful on the inside as well as the outside.

doesn't use the internet. 2/10 not cool

Its always to protect the history that helps them protect their power. Theres a reason you dont hear the protect history argument people wanting to protect things like the move bombings or the burning of black wallstreet. And instead want to hide it.

yooo this kinda blew my mind. i've never really thought about that but it's so fucking true, anyway cheers for leaving this comment hope your studies are going well :-)

>i say that if she hadn’t had 3 kids by 25, she’d have been a computer programmer and you probably wouldn't be here to type this

@@SnapThority I'd rather my grandma be a computer whiz over existing to be quite honest.

@@RaeIsGaee fair

my grandma _was_ a computer programmer who then retired to have my mum and her sister. she has a degree in maths :)

@Jojo's Bizarre Music Library what is the point of this comment? Is it a gotcha or are you just that pedantic? 🤔

great!

@Anarky Lastname that's hilarious that you equate trade school and prison

@Anarky Lastname It was a little less overt than that. They had advanced, general, and remedial classes, but it was more about the school itself. Schools in poor neighbourhoods didn't get computer labs, they got woodworking shops and auto bays, and there was no stigma placed on taking general-level classes. The schools were dingy grey concrete bunkers surrounded by bare concrete. On the other hand, schools in rich neighbourhoods got the best computers, lots of things like art classes and grassy athletic fields, and if you weren't taking advanced level courses, you were quietly "encouraged" (read: bullied) by teachers into transferring to a school more in keeping with your career path of blue collar servitude.

@@replicaacliper Tourism workers and practical engineers must be in shambles rn😩

I'm in my 50s also. No one was ever forced to take options courses by gender, and I believe you are deliberately exaggerating in this statement. It is true that in general girls preferred to take home economics while boys generally chose shop and mechanics. But I believe that, just as we find in North European countries where equality in genders is greatest, and where women continue to choose nursing while men choose engineering, it seems to just be natural differences in the genders.

WTF!?! I wonder why?

​@@JessicaPradoHansonHey, Alice is a nice name. Why wouldn't her name be Alice?!

I didn’t even realize that lol

For real, if it's not a good image to use in the first place, why use it? And why fight tooth and nail for it? I'm really confused by the people who are so adamant to keep using this image when it's 50 years old and has many good alternatives...

@@juliee593 they adamantly want to keep using it precisely because the other side wants to retire it for "cultural reasons". A natural reaction to badly-argumented change. If the arguments used were "it's an objectively bad picture, I don't think it would have been a problem

@@havz0r and the only reason to keep it is "because we always did it so why not change". Which is a worse argument.

Also because it's now men who are thought to be best at repetitive, meticulous work, which is funny

... would they be shocked though? Why?

@@sophroniel sexism, yea thats really funny sophia!

@@housemana mad because true

@@plzletmebefrank because it was originally primarily women in the field

'Problematic' my ass. This whole discussion, completely avoiding that the Lena imagine has no green in it, shows that these guys are not actually intelligent but have some kind of mental inflexibility that comes close to an issue or even illness.

@@AmstradExin what the fuck kind of nonsensical non-sequitur is that

@@JorgetePanete it's*

@@JorgetePanete I looked at the it is part. I'm dumb

And in 3D printing, they use a tiny boat

@@watcher8582 maybe you are right, but I don't see the need for tradition in research, expecially if such tradition mines down quality

using the same images over time gives a control

@@wrenromero6392 the video addresses this. It's not providing control.

theres lots of people, not just in computer science, who favour tradition to relevancy

@@watcher8582 But tradition can also chain life down. Tradition is important, but no one should rely on it. Change is important too. Life works best with a balance of the two, and it's time for the Lena image to be retired from practical use. No one's saying you still can't reference it for fun. But for practical scientific use? There's much better images from the modern day.

use an unfalsifiable definition of "privilege," use it to oppress the "privileged," call it "justice." one weird trick.

​@@billwall267what

@@billwall267 Agree! Men are being oppressed in today's society. We live in dangerous times, reminds me of George Orwell 1984

​@@keto0303Everyone, point and laugh at the incel

@@keto0303 you forgot the /s

* _The Need for Speed_ * _ISO/IEC 14882 acoustic live concert_ * _Template Metaprogramming and Turing_

It's great you find it fun. It's indeed a funny joke. But remember it also is a sexist joke, used over and over and over e.g. to make girls drop from cs class. Yes, "humour" can be a nasty weapon. I'm obviously not saying we should stop having fun. It's just good to remember that what we see as "innocent and fun" can be dreadful and harmful to others. And the fact we don't see "how is that harmful?" PRECISELY mean we should think about it once again.

@@huyxiun2085 How is "3 of their albums" in any way sexist? Why would a girl drop from a CS class because of a sexist joke from the presenter?

@@JohnDlugosz Have you ever heard this joke-question being asked to a boy? I for sure did not.

It's funny because it highlights and mocks the gatekeeping mindset. With the context and use being *anti-sexist*...

Indeed, and innocent ignorance like that very often helps perpetuate terrible and even harmful ideas because it's really easy to say we see no problems in using the image and it seems useful, making it easier to agree with arguments that are factually wrong and encouraging using bad arguments and (unknowingly) validating practices and ideas that are harmful. I found myself in such a situation when, in the US, statues of confederate leaders were in dispute. All I really knew was that those were a part of history, so I saw more reason to keep them than to take them down. What I didn't know was that those statues were completely useless in teaching anything about history and that they weren't erected to remember a dark past and the overcoming of it, but to remember and encourage the idea that white people had and still have dominance over black people. I have said publicly that I saw no problem in keeping them as an important part of history. And as innocent as that sounds, that would've been innocent if I was on of the few instead of one of the many. It's far more useful to have pictures of those statues in books and explain why they were there and why they were taken down.

@@stylis666 I think I didn't make my point clear. I had no idea where this picture came from, and really I didn't care. If you look old Washington Evening Post magazines you will see just as seductive images of just as attractive women. It seems to me that the main issue here is there is an objectifying of women (really no one has a problem with the tank image). The image was to be used for process calibration of digital images. It was not intended for making women seem like objects. On top of that I would like to point out that the original picture was put out in a nationwide magazine. Anything offensive was cropped out for the digital analysis. If objectifying women is the issue it shouldn't be that the image was used for digital analysis, but that it was taken in the first place. Get mad at Playboy for taking/printing/distributing the magazine, and not for the computer scientists that were looking for an image to use. If things get boiled down to the heart of the matter, we have better images for digital processing now. The Lena image doesn't even have to be used. There should be a broadcast of all new images that make things better and easier for everyone. It wouldn't be hard to just put out a handful of new images and start from scratch. Were computer scientists creeps? Yes, and the nude women as their computer background was proof of that. Should they be shamed for objectifying women in the workplace, yes they should. Should their work be dismissed because they used a cropped image for digital processing? I would say no. Let the work stand. Let newer and better images take the place of outdated and suggestive images.

@@stephenriley3374 *objectification is a nonsensical problem, they should not be shamed for using the image, it was the perfect fusion between enjoyment and also technical importance, using nude women as computer backgrounds doesn't make you a creep, and before you accuse me of doing shut, I will tell you beforehand I have black as my computer background

Yeah it's great. Reminiscent of Jon Bois and Dorktown, but Broccoli put his own tasteful spin on it

Starting from a known image, then adding noise/holes/whatever gives you a way to judge how well an algorithm can remove/fix the noise/holes/whatever objectively. You can compare the "cleaned" image with the original and see how close it gets. I would hope though that a paper includes from-the-wild "damaged" images to see how well they are cleaned up. Even if we can only subjectively grade how well those happen. On another note, sure, let's use a more modern image. Why, we could even have a suite of new images!

my thought exactly. everything else seems just childish and nonsensical. you have 100000 ton argument there, why add or substract a few mg of verbiage around that? having said that, i wouldn´t be for frobidding it. if your paper calls precisely for that image, then use it. if there are better alternatives, it should be considered best practice to use them.

But retiring the image on its technical shortcomings doesn't really address the sexism. There are fewer women in CS because they have been afforded less respect. It is better to retire the image as a sign of respect. The only reason the image does harm is because of how it supports other sexist aspects of the culture.

I agree with the first part, but on the point that "adding artifacts" is somehow wrong. No. Just no. A big part of how methods can be objectively measured relies on having a "ground truth" reference for what the correction is supposed to look like. How are you supposed to get the ground truth without corrupting the image yourself? Magic?

@@timseguine2 in that case you will train an AI that is very good ad removing human made artifacts. there are ways to use training data that isnt exclusively hand made and still verify sucessful outcomes

how little to absolutelly shock you...

@@ladislavdobrovsky8826 they were clearly being hyperbolic silly goose

@@MyFictionalChaos these days I'm not so sure...

@@ladislavdobrovsky8826 get out more

Matlab still has Lena? I thought they removed the image from the list of automatically installed images a while back.

I'm only 20 minutes in, and though I know her opinion doesn't matter here because that's not her picture, it's playboy's. Proprietary rights and what not. I am very curious about what she thinks about the result of that picture not being used for it's intended purpose.

@@GrifoStelle "her opinion doesn't matter here" -- I realize you go on to say you are interested in her opinion (she has said she would like the image to stop being used btw) so I'm not trying to make you feel bad for thinking this. I just want to point out that you don't need to take such a legalistic view of things in everyday life. Her opinion about a photo of herself absolutely matters for deciding if it's right to keep using it, that's why you're still interested in what she thinks. It might not have much legal weight behind it in court but that only matters in court. (and even in court I'm not so sure it'd be that simple. She gave Playboy the right to use her image, not all these researchers. And it's not like the researchers received permission from Playboy either. A court might decide she'd still have some legal right to object to unauthorized use like this. We wouldn't know for sure unless she tried)

@@soloincognito9646 it wouldn’t fly in court probably. Think about playboy using pamala anderson’s sex tape. They considered it “art”. Even though it’s her body, she never owned the magazine cover. Idk if playboy could successfully sue since it is their original photo, but lenna has no say in the image being used

@@GrifoStelle PlayBoy didn't grant a license to the researchers, they just (legally) looked the other way to _exploit_ it for _exposure._ Regardless, researchers don't HAVE to use it, they could absolutely _choose_ to not use it, even if it were free, if she didn't want them to. So yes, Lena's opinion does indeed matter. 😒

@Grifo Cold I guess that's true lol

It's honestly a testament to how amazing his videos are. Unlike most creators that would've ended as soon as they gave a basic answer, Bobby develops the topic into an actual argument that challenges the viewers to think critically about gender discrimination in computer science as a whole.

tbh this video was a lot worse than what i was expecting coming from bobby. i love most of his videos too, but this read like underbaked sjw propaganda

@@personpersoon3332 Being salty about a RU-vidr highlighting the discriminatory attitudes present across a field doesn't mean it's a bad video.

@@RaeIsGaeei don't mind that part, it's just barely related to the main subject of the video, being the lena image. and for me, that leaves it feeling underbaked. plus the women interviewed didn't seem like they really knew what they were talking about

@@personpersoon3332 The Lena Image is quite literally *The* symbol of sexism in the field of computer science. Everyone who works in image processing at least knows about the image and its origins. This is like saying the moon landing footage has nothing to do with the cold war. She is *Literally* the woman in that photo. I didn't know that you have to have a bachelors in image processing to revoke your consent to having your image plastered everywhere.

Honestly for me it feels totally different -- I do embroidery as well as programming and they don't feel that similar to me. But maybe that's just because I'm still a beginner at embroidery and I've been programming for a little while now.

@@sparksbet embroidery and pattern making for knitting are different things. If anything, embroidery is more like painting because it involves more visual intelligence, and in knitting you need logical intelligence because it's pure algorithms

hur dur stealing our yobs

Well there you go. Men are typically right when it comes to knitting and programming🤣

To be honest, there's a definite through-line of logic to compare the two activities, it just came from a shiity place. That rally does make the difference sometimes.

I think it's weird the women are upset by it?! It's just a woman's portrait. Everything else was cropped out 🙄 it's not that big a deal. Lena is super pretty and the colors and everything are perfect! I'd rather see her than monkeys or peppers or ships. I think the women interviewed are looking for a reason to be upset. Maybe they're insecure. Because I feel most women in the industry do not share their opinion.

​@@WhitneyDahlinBait

@@thatoneperson8154 idk what that means lol

​@@thatoneperson8154Very, VERY obvious bait. Ikr

I wonder how they'd have placed the Nintendo Knitting Machine System if they ended up launching it.

I'd personally blame the NES being a victim of the circular logic of the "video games are for boys" trend than anything else. I'd say that trend started with arcade games post Space Invaders, trickled down to game consoles like the Atari 2600, and eventually on to home computers as well (because they were generally marketed like game machines). When Nintendo launched the NES, they fell into a market that, as you said, was "it's either for boys or girls, not both!", and they went with that path of least resistance (which made sense because their software at the time was male oriented). Nintendo did try to market to girls in a semi-token fashion once they became successful, but even then the NES was still mostly marketed as a boy's toy. I think the girls hometech thing was another case of circular logic by the toy industry. As for why the Famicom was renamed NES, I think they just didn't want to call it a computer, even the original prototype NES with a keyboard and cassette drive was called the AES.

@@blackblob500 Yeah the NES launched much later than I remembered in the states. I'd revise my statement as Nintendo oA helped cement the toys for boys-image rather than being part of creating it.

@@blackblob500 The reason for the name change is actually something that sort of undermines the thesis in my first post. 🤣 They didn't want give the image of a computer system-toy after the Ataricrash in 83 made everyone think that video game system-market was completely dead. Also why they redesigned the look to make it more seem like a VCR with the front load to further get away from the videogame/computergame stigma they thought was deeply cemented in peoples minds.

The DMG (dot matrix game) project was named Game Boy. The console and several of its successors were not only marketed for boys. It was literally named for boys.

One note is that it's probably taught differently in different countries. Over here that's a part of the big push to get more women into computer science; most of them were women back in the day. It's common knowledge at my institute, at least.

lol

You meen "recognizable to people familiar with image-processing." ? Because I couldn't even tell what part of a body (or bodies) it is.

The counter point to that, is that it’s an imperfect image. It’s useful for testing true feature extraction in the face of hamstrung data.

that would be the logical response, yeah. I opt for, "They could choose from thousands of images now, including photos I've taken myself."

Sure that is reason enough but all the added non technical bs reasons or feelings... like omg just stick to technical reasons and you have a point. otherwise nah

I think the primary reason people used it so excessively was because they found it funny. I think it became a sort of meme in the scientific community.

that's beautiful

I have 0 female colleagues at work and it's kinda depressing. I got a bunch of male colleagues and, I didn't even believe in such stereotypes, but they legit mostly talk about sports, cars and money. Some of them even complain about their wives, which is a trope I hoped would be completely gone by now. And then I get "why do you never come to company events?", lol. And even on top of that, the whole IT industry in general seems weirdly soulless. I like the idea of programming itself, but if that's what being a professional programmer will look like going forward, I'll probably quit too. I used to have two female friends that aspired to be programmers. One of them was sooo insanely good in particular, but they both quit years ago after 1 and 2 semesters of college respectively, I think they don't do programming at all anymore.

@@Unelith These subjects in general are not meant to have "soul" in the way you are thinking. They are technical fields where people live for their work for the most part. What would you specifically have change?

This is going to come across as sexist, and as an MtF trans person, I have had a very different life experience than you, but... Why does it matter so much that there are predominantly male spaces? There are also predominantly female spaces; I genuinely can't remember the last time I heard people care about that. I'm not saying that it's not hard for a woman to become a computer scientist. I'm saying it's also hard for a man to become a bank teller, daycare attendant, nurse, and many other jobs. Shouldn't we be firehozing the hate at all of the sexist spaces equally? Or is it just not sexist if it's against men? Because that's fucking crap. Life may not be fair, but we can choose to be fair. That or we could just accept that some places are for guys and some for girls. But since society has kinda decided that "everyone is equal"... Shouldn't we be fair about this? Why focus on specifically just male spaces? We should be destroying them all.

@@MeepChangeling This is called whataboutism, my dude. Yes, that's a problem, too, but isn't the issue being discussed here. But I get what you're saying. I tried to apply to a bank as a teller and was straight up told to my face that, unless I was a family member to someone, they only hire young women for that position.