The Inhumanity of Celebrity 

I'm the same as Jackie, very introverted. I dont like small talk at all but I am intrigued by meaningful, deep conversations. I can come off as standoffish and its hard because thats who I am. But I relate to people differently. I enjoy deep connections, not frivolous conversations that mean nothing, so its hard for me to relate to most people.

I love the way he finds himself loving her, was like a suprising moment, like loving her for the first time. That was so pure, only God can teach us how to love someone again everyday. God bless them.

I love the way Preston always guards her emotions. Covers her with love. ❤

Jackie’s honesty is insanely refreshing. 😌

“Fame is rooted in favouritism” so good 👏🏿

Being an introvert in public spaces for extended periods of time is draining. That's what I hear Jackie saying.

I can’t even express how relatable Jackie is to me…. She puts words to a lot of my feelings and thoughts so well.

The strangest thing about celebrity culture is how it bleeds into everything else. People have been given such a closeup of certain aspects of celebrities lives that they now feel entitled to all aspects of their lives. I will go even further to say that this entitlement has spilled over into regular everday life. Since many feel entitled to know the ins-and-outs of celebrities lives; they also feel entitled to know the ins-and-outs of the lives of neighbors, coworkers, parishoners etc. Its highly disturbing when you think about it. #NoBoundaries

Jackie is sharing a feeling that many experience… It is interesting how we feel the need to perform in front of people who fell in love with the true us that wasn’t performing.. she isn’t overly sweet or smiling or anything in the podcast unless there’s a joke so I wouldn’t expect anything different in person.. she is matter-of-factly. I appreciate Jackie’s transparency and to get anything else in person would be weird. Those who expect you to be diff than you are, were never fans to begin..

I was so honored to take a pic with you at Glory Vegas, but I had asked first. You looked goodt btw, 4 kids where? Knowing that you're an introvert, I respect your boundaries. Also, I dont want ppl to just like me for my gifts either. Glory Atl you were pregnant you had your family there, so I didnt want to ask to take a pic. I dont just like you cuz you can preach real good. I like that you and your husband are real, your funny personalities, your family,your testimonies, which I can relate with. Jackie youre a black woman with locs, thats a whole testimony in itself. Didnt see that as much growing up. All in all, yea I be feeling like yall my cousins in my head🤣 ,but also respect yall and especially yall children.

Really loved this episode!! That contrast between Nebuchadnezzar & John the Baptist's approach to fame and who they chose to glorify 💯 "Celebrity" tends to place people on pedestals. Sometimes it even closely resembles worship. There's only one person who could ever truly handle worship, and it's not us...

Preston's hair & cut is str8 flames🔥🔥🔥

Jackie is well read, super smart and knows how to articulate herself so well.

I’m not at the same level of notoriety as y’all but I relate to this so much. I’m naturally an over sharer but I’ve realized that I can’t do that on social media. I just can’t. I sacrifice too much privacy, vulnerability, and space for authenticity. And it’s made me realize that I was actually looking for close community and was unhealthily fulfilling that through my online presence. I’ve come to my conclusion, through prayer, that the content I post will be specific to my niche on the internet; and unless there’s a personal life update that affects that, I only want to share my life with those close to me in real life. That’s not to say that your community can’t be online; it totally can - but only certain people can be awarded that intimacy in my opinion. I gave it up so freely and it set unhealthy boundaries between myself and my audience. I imagine the line y’all walk is so much thinner because your content is very intimate, personal, and transformative. I’m not sure what the solution is, but I’m sure the Lord will lead y’all in it. Thanks for the great podcasts 🙏🏿

I'm Jamaican and growing up culturally the reaction to " celebrity" is different. We don't like the feeling on a whole like ppl act like they are or feel like they are better than you. We look down on it. However I have noticed young ppl because of the influence of social media and US culture tend to idolise ppl who are well known. But celebrity homage in excess is idol worship.

I really appreciate Jackie’s transparency here. As an introvert I can completely get what she’s saying. I don’t know if she would consider herself an introvert or not…either way I definitely understand the feeling of being drained after a lot of social interaction. Great episode!

I love how you are so patient with each other and let the other finish their thought

I don’t know what it is but this video got me super emotional. I have never had a “fan girl” mentality but always desired to know a few people I have been invested in by people online. Thank you for this content!!!! I hope to one day come support you in person and just give you a genuine hug and thank you for your obedience. ❤

I've met celebrities and acknowledged them, if they were people I liked or followed, but I never go out of my way to take pictures or make them feel like they HAVE to do anything but exist in their space. I'm an introvert and I don't like people in my space, so I don't do it to others. I barely even take photos of myself, let alone a stranger, no matter how famous they are. They are people who need to feel comfortable. I treat people how I want to be treated and I wouldn't like that so I don't do it to them. It's creepy and dehumanizing and we would feel attacked if people did that to us.

This episode is a whole 5 sermons. I need to pause and digest!! I’m so glad there are couples and individuals like you in the kingdom. I honestly don’t know where else I would come across rich information like this.

I once read an anecdote in a book about a younger pastor who was leading a growing church speaking to a more seasoned minister. The younger pastor attempted to explain why he could not stop his church from growing and the more seasoned pastor said simply, “stop adding chairs.” I think there is a principle there for Christian “celebrities.” They could ponder why and how and where a and in which ways they are put on pedestals or they they could just “stop adding chairs.” I could give a thousand examples of how they could do that in this current age, but I don’t want to make this post too long.

It resonated with me when Jackie explained how she felt performative in public spaces so others can be ok with her and not misinterpret her actions. I used to do it at work and was so exhausted. Then I finally realized that all I really owed people was respect and professionalism. That’s all!

I took a break from serving in my local church’s music ministry and it’s been the main way I’ve served for the last 15 years. I definitely struggled with not losing my identity as a Christian during this break, so this conversation was super relevant for me.

It is so hard to be somebody else. You both are so reflective of who God says we should be. Honest, open, and Authentic. Pray the Holy Spirit continue to use you both for His glory. I appreciate you both, blessings.

Social media, and the perceived “close proximity” it has provided, has emboldened people to make comments and ask invading questions that hurt others. Then, once the offense has stabbed the heart, the offender can slink back to obscurity but the offended has to deal with the hurt. I can see where the “celebrity” eventually draws boundaries, or even develops a role, to protect their person, family, and privacy. The band Rush has a line in their song Limelight, “I can’t pretend a stranger is a long-awaited friend”. The whole song is a secular testimony to this very subject. I hope us common folk remember your words as we interact with the celebrities in our lives. Thank you for your honesty and opening up this subject to a serious conversation. God bless y’all as you navigate this in your own lives.

My God, Ta’Day!!! “I feel like I have to perform” is my life. Even hosting friends or family in my home. It’s exhausting. I, too, am a chill, laid back person and having people around for one periods takes a lot out of me. I feel you 💯!!

I really appreciate your thoughts on this topic. And thanks for putting aside the “attitude” and recording the episode!!! Keep serving the King!

I just love how you both are soooooo honest!!! And you express your feelings so well. GOALS!!!😊

Attaching value to your outcome vs Who you were made by was so good. I struggle with that as a professional. This episode is such a blessing.

This makes me think of church and pastors. My church back home in Ohio, and others, pastor always has his crew around him, we stand in line to get up to talk to him after service etc…everyone trying to get there time….I thought was a normal thing. I live in Washington state now, big church as well but the pastor just walks amongst us, no crew…. No one is trying to get at him, no line to speak etc. so I understand the illusion. If you appear untouchable people are like going crazy but if you are just hanging amongst the people… your human

This was really good discussion !

So true! And some social media influencers who share so much of their lives have said things like “you don’t know me”, which is false, we do know them but they don’t know us.

I am continually blown away with the wisdom you both have! May God continue to give you wisdom and continued humility! I am proud to support ya'll!

Suprisingly, on a small level I can relate. Just being a Christian puts you in a place of having to feel like you have to perform. Being the daughter of a man who is influential in his circle does that too. For myself, all of y'all I watch I thank God for...however, y'all strangers. I feel no type of comfort coming up to a stranger for a convo or picture. I'll say hi with bright eyes and a great big wave...but that's it.

I feel like celebritnism is the highest of people pleasing in away! To tie into what Preston was saying if your way of living is by your platform or your celebrity. That will start to pull at your authenticity! It’s reminds me of this scripture Mark 8:36! Eventually you have nothing left but your wealth & unhappiness…

This is soooooooo good!!!! "Myself isn't going to always be good enough for everybody". This is sometimes the most stressful truth.

This is so spot on. I needed to hear this. I sometimes get nervous around more high-profile people, and I keep trying to tell myself, “We are both children of God!” 😂Everything you said helped so much, thank you.

I’m going to have to take this in again with a notepad!

I can relate to this. I’m not famous. But was an associate pastor at a large church. People knew my daughters name, knew my story, and thought they had a relationship with me. And now that I go to a smaller church people from my old church will come up to me. And I literally have no idea who they are. Super strange.

This conversation is 🔥! The discussion on Genesis 3 and the New Jerusalem so blessed me bc I am the Excel girl so over trying to prove my worth.

Wow the wisdom and how miss. Jackie can put it in words in mind blowing. Thank you sis🙌🏾❤️

Wow not the Perry’s couldn’t click on fast enough, love them and you all too❤

Such a good conversation. I think when we attend conferences and events we need to make it our job to assume the best about everyone and that they have good intentions even if we don't get the greeting or picture we wanted. I think this will also help to reduce the stress put on those with influence and make them feel more comfortable to be themselves by meeting them where they're at, and showing grace and compassion. It also will remind us that we can show honor to people but we only worship Jesus.

23:24 is the introvert struggle, speaking as an INFJ. 🙄 I worry about being this way at work as a receptionist sometimes. My "good morning" is majorly monotone but pleasant. On certain cheery days you'll hear an inflection but I cannot be consistent with a cheery disposition. It is draining because it is not me. I just be myself. If anyone takes offense at me being me, that's on them.

Moral of the story, don’t sell your soul for fame 🤷🏽‍♀️

This is so good! I believe that, as Christian’s, we are called to be seen in some capacity. It will vary in different degrees for each one of us. But God has called us to be the light of this world, & a city on a hill cannot be hidden! We cannot remain in the background, we have to adjust to some sort of spotlight in our careers, communities & roles because we carry light in this dark world. 🙏🏾💫

Every word spoken here is refreshing and it feels so good to know that people out here get it. Sometimes it appears like no one notices this in church, yet it's everywhere. We should always remember that no one is more important or more valuable than another.

Thankyou for your authenticity. I really appreciate it but you are correct. You do need to have boundaries for your own sakes and your children, especially as they grow up. From New Zealand

Very good discussion, thanks for sharing!! 😊👍🏾🙏🏾❤️

This is Fascinating! I think of this often, but don't always know how to define the psychology of it. Thank you for sharing!

Great talk! I am an introvert and excessive social interactions in large groups exhausts us, and we recharge best by being alone. Not bad, just different!

This was very therapeutic. Honestly.

I was a chef at a very popular eating spot in my large city. I worked in an open kitchen so people saw me and everyday at worked people would praise my skills. Imagine having a job where people told you how wonderful you are. Then I came home to my life as a single mom of 7 children. That kept my feet to the ground.

"Being honest. And in that honesty, taking time to hide"

ur videos brought me back to youtube. i love ur talks and knowledge. i always feel filled to the soul & challenged to think bigger when i watch yall. god bless yall ❤❤❤

We have the same personality. I’ve very relaxed and laid back and that’s commonly misinterpreted. It is certainly work to do those things so I’m not labeled negatively. And I see Preston’s point because I realized these people don’t know me. So at times I do have to go out of my way to show people who I really am.

Great conversation! Chuck DeGroat's book is an excellent source on narcissism! It's crucial to have accountability in church leadership/pastor because the damage that's results from this psudeo-celebrity is dangerous!

A healthy balance between: going out of your way in order to be nice/warm vs being yourself; allow yourself to feel tired and not-so-social....

I can't miss this sessions,I just can't shout out from Botswana 🇧🇼 I thank you guys for more than 30mins slowly but surely we're going to 1hr😁😁😁

I feel you Jackie! People expect you to be an extrovert with a ton of high energy all of the time. That’s just not reasonable, or even attainable in certain situations. The irony is that they want or need to extract that high-strung energy from you to make themselves feel better. It can be exhausting trying to appease people. Naturally, as humans we will always want more, so to what extent does it end? 🤷🏾‍♀️ I feel you girl. #triggered😂

I have never had celebrity status in the way you are speaking. However, as a retired HS teacher, I have experienced people (parents, grandparents, aunts, etc) that new who I was that I did not know. So, when I was in public I was always on guard. There was a time when I started questioning myself about my chosen career, not because of that necessarily, but because, I was in a field that it was forbidden to talk about Jesus. I saw so many broken kids during that time that needed Jesus. I felt imprisoned in my inability to offer the only Truth that may rescue their soul and give them comfort and peace beyond measure. This weighed so heavy on my heart that I was ready to give it up and find another career. God has been so good to me, an undeserving sinner. But, He loves and guides me anyway. One Saturday I was in the mall. Two of my students saw me and ran to talk and say hi. Out of the blue, one of the girls said, “education needs more people like you. Jesus shines through your eyes.” Wow, I had my answer; I was exactly where I was meant to be. You, are exactly where you are supposed to be. The world needs more people speaking the Truth of our Lord. God has never promised following Him would me easy; but, he does promise He will be right there every step of the way. You two, are doing so much to spread salvation; the goodness of our Lord. Stay strong, walk the path you have been given. You touch people that are out of reach from anyone else! God Bless!

You tell them Jackie however you maybe feeling in that moment to thyself be true and your audience/fans. No one can fault you for that. This will make me think differently about approaching someone of celebrity or fame going forward. Thank you.

Wow! Most of the topic in this podcast are topics and questions that Ive talked about in my quiet time with God and close friends. And the fact that you both are having this beautiful discussion about these things blows my mind.

Hiding is my take away

I learnt from this conversation

i truly respect you both. i appreciate you both. god bless you both. blessings.

40mins with the perrys 🙂

It's problematic that with such greatness come such huge responsibility and that although we're apart of such a large family (the family of God) you can't really share yourself with everyone. But, it's so necessary because of the testimony you carry. The balancing act will be the hardest part. Keep up the great work!

“The less we’re impressed with Jesus the more people being impressed by our ministry will potentially destroy us” 💣 🔥 🎤’drop

Tbh, I was not enthused about this. I didn't know what ya'll meant by inhumanity (in the title) and frankly I was uninterested in hearing you two talk about Kim K, Beyonce, and Kanye. BUT, God be using ya'll so I listened. And I'm glad I did ❤

This conversation is so relevant. Thank you

Parasocial relationships need to be studied more

OMGoodness, thank you so much for this episode!!! There are too many points made that affirmed how I feel to comment on them all. I just love you kids, your openness and honesty is so refreshing. Sorry for the "kids" you're both my children's age. 🥰 The Lord bless you both and your children. ❤️‍🔥🙏❤️‍🔥

🙏🏽Thanks Perry’s! This is a question I’ve often thought about. We as a ppl, turn it on when the light is on us… intentionally or not, we shine for others More, then shining for God!

Yes Jackie! I agree with you. I often feel like I have to overperform too, especially as a teacher when I am in fact really laid back too! 😅

My Lord, when Jackie mentioned that she’s drained from “performing”, I can completely relate. When I’m myself, I’m asked, what’s wrong, why the mean face, or why were my words so sharp. I like being in a room and not having to fill the silence w words. I want to wave, smile and keep it moving.

This is such a necessary conversation. Thanks for having it.

jackie is sharing a feeling we all experience. that many of us experience. relating naturally. i relate to her naturally. i'm not overly sweet. you can't always be sweet. you just can't be sweet all of the time. overly sweet and smiling. i'm human. i'm only human. i'm not always sweet. i have my bad days. i have my fair share of bad moments. i have bad days. a healthy balance. i am matter of factly.

Very real talk!!! People do take liberties they aren't willing to give. Stay the course I really like your page. God will give you both the wisdom needed for this journey!🎉🎉

Putting On..Choose to be changed. Transformed.

Amen. The putting on clothing not in my closet is a much needed word

So glad you guys are discussing this. Even though people are compelled to use their gifts in purpose it doesn’t mean people should lack the ability to discern reality. Celebrity is a one way relationship in your head. Just because someone sings and wants to share their music doesn’t mean they want to be close enough to strangers to smell their breath. Having to hug and take pictures with strangers should not be part of sharing your gift. The gift is the music. Being so eager to praise people before praising God is having gods before Him. Someone’s gift should point back to God not cause awkward moments where people offer sacred worship to another human being. I don’t blame people for breaking out of the expectations of “fans.” The idea of “it comes with it” should be challenged. I believe God would honor the intention of not receiving improper praise. This is deep though because I can see how people pleasing multiplies the grief of fame.

Love this conversation!!

Loved this. Woke up feeling like that this morning. I know it's because I'm tired.

I love your genuiness!

Lady Jackie kindness doesn't change your authenticity.

What's interesting is that I was right behind you all in a office in Oak Park some years back and I didn't say a word because I suspect that it gets old.

Me and Jackie are one in the same. Bring social is draining because you have to be look welcoming because how people may perceive you to be

U guys are so good together 🙏🏽

Loved the analogy about the New Jerusalem 😊beautiful conversation!!

Thanks y’all. Appreciate the content

3 seconds in and when he said it reminds me of when I love you 😭❤️ sooo sweet and also I think about how god loves us even when we don’t have the best attitude! So sweet can’t wait to listen to all of this. Especially since I vlog, I’ve never even wanted to go viral because I know the fame would be awful for me.

So deep and sobering

This was so needful in the community! Many of us seek a platform and wish to have the followers, put our lives, losses and victories out there without considering the WHY of the ramifications… like being upset when folks get too personal, when in truth you have invited them into your lives with transparency and person-ability. This type of clarity also explains how people that are fans get offended when those with platforms are standoffish - must do more research regarding para- socialism. ❤️

Say “thank you” Jackie!! 😊

peace to you guys. god bless you.

Blessings Family In CHRIST! Lol, so let me just get this out the way,,, how was this cast posted 2hrs ago, and the first comment says it was posted 7days ago Lmbo. I'm not tech savvy in the least, but that has me stumped. ANYWHO, y'all have truly become my favorite couple in ministry. Praise the Lord! I love the honesty, transparency, and diligence in holding All things to the standard of GOD and the Word of GOD. The very things y'all are discussing is the very reason I have not been on social media in over a year, and prior to that was on and off seasonally. So many people keep asking me to do a podcast, open a youtube channel, be active on the graham etc., and I'll admit there is a desire for me to get back out there and talk to the masses about God and the things we are experiencing in the world today, and how it lines up w Scripture. Yet I also have to admit, I Don't Want That Spotlight & Smoke Lmbo. So this is speaking to me deeply... An helping to direct my prayers & discernment. I appreciate you both tremendously! Blessings to y'all and your loved ones, in Jesus' name! 🙌🏾🙏🏾☝🏾💯

Hey Perry's this was really good. So many need to hear this, especially the local church. So many great topics you guys touch on.

Love, love, love this conversation

Awwww Preston!