The Klon and the Birth of Boutique - ASK ZAC 42 

On a Wednesday evening in 2007, I get a phone call from a guy who introduces himself as Bill Finnegan. I recognize the name immediately and was somewhat taken aback, since it came out of the blue. Bill told me that he had collaborated with a consulting engineer on the Klon, but that this person had tragically died in a single-engine plane crash, and he was looking for someone to assist on something he had been asked to do by a number of customers (so not a major design change). He had followed some of my posts and felt he could trust me; something I was deeply honoured by. Perhaps "customers" is the wrong word. Maybe "clients" is a better choice because, by that point Bill's pedal had found its way to the rigs of many high-profile musicians who owned several of the units. I told Bill I felt like I was being asked to re-edit "Gone With The Wind" and sex it up a bit; i.e., somehow improve perfection. We discussed what he was trying to do, and he sent me two "ungooped" boards and a schematic. The constraints were that the requested alterations would not require a change to the PCB layout or the basic design. In service of that, one of the boards had EVERY single component, active and passive alike, socketed, such that I could remove this or that resistor or cap value and use another, in search of the requested difference. I machined a chassis that allowed me to foot switch between unmodified and modified boards, as well as bypass the whole thing. I have to say that the build quality on these boards was exquisite. I also have to say that a number of resistor values on the schematic were crossed out with another 1% value written in. Clearly Bill was fine-tuning these things by ear. This may also play a role in the subtle audible differences you/Zac notes, though I can't say for sure. I had many long conversations with Bill about the design, and many other things. One of the standout topics was his approach to customer relations. Though the financial transaction was by money-order, he basically sold the Klon Centaur over the phone, with very infrequent, and less-than-flashy ads in Vintage Guitar Magazine. If a prospective customer called, he would engage in a 20-30 minute conversation, inquiring about their rig. If he felt that the Klon would not likely add value to their tone, given the rig and their playing style, he would discourage purchase. I have no evidence that he ever outright *refused* to sell to someone, but neither did he consider every call a "sale". No A-B-C (always be closing) on his part. The circuit boards and the chassis/enclosures were made in smallish batches. I don't know in what specific volume, but certainly not Boss or Electro-Harmonix volumes, which led to waits on his part. The enclosures, and the epoxy goop, provided a form of protection from forgery - if you couldn't buy similar enclosures, and you couldn't see what was under the goop, then you couldn't pirate it. But between Bill's approach to sales, the fact that he hand-produced each pedal, and the limited production entailed by not always having boxes and boards on hand, output was low and the waiting list grew; especially as word of the pedal spread. Owners found they could demand high re-sale prices on E-bay from those whose bank accounts (or credit limits) greatly exceeded their patience. Of course, Bill only made money from the initial sale of a pedal, and the only role he played in the outrageous re-sale prices was simply not churning out enough pedals to satisfy the ever-growing market. As an approach to sales and marketing, as chock full of integrity as you can get, but not without its drawbacks. On forums, I regularly try to defuse complaints about the cost of "boutique" pedals. Many consumers look at the cost of the parts and think that somehow that should be reflected in the retail price. The pedal-makers, on the other hand, work backwards from their overhead and living costs. They have to pay for their own living expenses, space rental (if required), internet and phone, advertising, attending trade shows, investments in supplies inventory, health insurance, car insurance, employee costs, etc., etc. They calculate how many units they can build and sell in a month, maybe factor in other revenue streams (e.g., other part-time gigs), and then THAT is used to determine what they need to charge for a pedal in order to survive. Insurance on their Maserati and pool-boy costs don't come until MUCH later. In Bill's case, the enclosures were the single most costly component. The time taken in fabricating each pedal, and the telephone time, probably increased his production costs. He certainly wasn't making a mint. Sadly, anyone who did take the big leap and spend close to, or maybe even, four figures on a re-sale Klon never got the lengthy chat and rig-assessment with Bill. And I doubt anyone expecting to get 3-4 times what they paid for theirs, would balk at selling to someone who thought a Klon would make their Fender Frontman 25 make them sound like . Naturally, the mismatch between pedal and rig in the resale market tended to engender some hard feelings among those whose expectations were miscalibrated. Bill did tell me that, although the Treble control provides boost and cut, he really meant it to be used primarily for cut, when aiming for overdriven tones. And indeed, since those early days, the plethora of boosters that have appeared on the market include some means to cut the treble on the boosted output. It's simply part of what makes an amp pushed harder provide the harmonics you want, and less of the ones you don't want. I have to say, with all due respect, the Klon is NOT a very good "overdrive" pedal. That is, it was never designed to provide a *specific* clipped sound of its own, like a Tube Screamer or Big Muff or Distortion+ or HM-2, that you could hear a sample of and say "Oh yeah, it's one of THOSE", regardless of the amp or volume used. Indeed, the best customer comment, that Bill used in some ads, was "It sounds like my amp...only bigger". I think the genius of the Klon Centaur was that it was one of the first pedals *expressly* designed to deliver a tone-shaped signal to a tube amp that was intended to bring out the amp's best overdriven qualities. One of the first pedals to adopt a "systems" approach to thinking about the entire signal chain. In the years since it first came out, there have been plenty of other booster products that aimed for the same outcome. Whether they do as good or better a job of nailing what the player wants, at lower cost, I leave up to the individual. But the *idea* of a pedal intended to feed a tube amp something that made it sound great, without imparting its own signature, was genius and a valuable contribution to music technology that continues to deserve respect. The general design, I have to say, is a "house of cards". It was designed empirically; using a what-if-we-add-this-over-here approach. I tried, in vain, to accomplish what Bill was asking for, and every little tweak I'd make over here would have deleterious effects downstream over there. That's not a *flaw* , by any stretch. Rather it illustrates how non-formulaic and non-derivative the design was. It seems that as the years have gone by, that Bill has revised his production methods in a way that assists him in turning out more pedals, in a more pedalboard-friendly form, with less effort. In the end, I couldn't accomplish what Bill had asked for. I shipped him back the two boards and schematic and we parted ways amicably. Since that time, I see many have attempted to reverse-engineer and clone the Klon. I've kept mum about what makes it tick. If you read this entire post/ "essay", my gratitude. It's long, but I hope sheds some additional light beyond Zac's informative video.

Great history on this! Thanks Zac!

OK, 60-year-old guy here. The more I chase tone with my instruments, the more I realize that I would need a 256 band equalizer set exactly perfect to try to reproduce some of the tones I’ve heard throughout the years(and then I could never move the settings, because once they move a little bit, the tone is gone) . My 1960 Jazz bass had a very specific tone and timber, that I have never been able to reproduce though I have tried throughout the years. Now, I use combinations of guitars, picks, pick ups, effects, amps, speakers to find “The Tone” but there are so many variables that it ends up being “A fools errand” trying to replicate some of the tones I’ve heard over the years exactly. I have found trying to get the perfect sound and elusive target. Now I just make sure that I don’t pass it by when I hear it. Many times it doesn’t come in the package that you were expecting. For example, have a Korean Les Paul with a four piece body, and a set of Seymour Duncan Antiquities that is definitely one of the best Tones I’ve ever heard (I have never even liked Les Pauls, but played this one in the shop and was hooked) it shouldn’t sound this good with a glued together, four piece body, and a non-nitro finish. Like many of us, I have owned and sold so many great instruments and amplifiers in an attempt to keep pace with my taste, or economic status. I’ve gone to the point now where if I hear something that gets “the tone”, no matter how junky, inexpensive or out of style it may be...I’ll grab it. Thanks for letting me rant and ramble. Really love your channel Zac!

I bought a gold Klon back around 1995. I remember seeing an article about them in some guitar mag. A lot of my favorite players were raving about the pedal so I decided to shell out the dough and get one. I actually talked to Bill when placing my order. He asked what my rig was and I told him a Strat direct into a Super Reverb. He said his pedal will probably work for me. It Did. Right away I discovered what you mentioned, Zac. The magic is between 9-12 o'clock on the gain dial when you set your amp to the sweet spot. That's the sound. Sometimes I think about selling the pedal (not for very long) and cashing in but I haven't found one that fully recreates that vibe so I'll just keep mine and use it while I can still play.

I think it does its job really well. It does sound and feel like playing through an amp with more push. In other words, it helps lose the “plinky” sound of a really clean amp.

I settled on the MXR Sugar Drive. What I really like about it is that you can also use it to give a bass guitar that last little push, without killing your low end.

I bought mine from Bill Finnegan in 2000 for $289 shipped. It's the one piece of gear that I have owned the longest. It makes everything sound bolder (set as a clean boost) for my tele through blackface amps. I imagine the good clones do the job well, but i keep it as it has just become an "asset" for me financially. I'm glad I bought one when they were just an expensive boutique pedal. I remember hanging out in the Austin Custom Shop on South Llamar back in 94'/95' and Robert Hacker was raving about this incredible new pedal saying how it made his PR sound like a Plexi! It took a few years to get one,and I still use it when i gig and its always on with minimal gain. I will say my best tones were back years ago when I played outdoors with an early BF Twin Reverb, a 59' les paul special and that combo when soloing was UNREAL during a solo. Formula was a 59 les paul special into a Twin Reverb on 5 with the klon set at about noon to 1. P90s and Klon go great together!

Zac, I can't tell you how much I enjoy your videos. I look forward to them every week. Thanks a million for keeping the great content coming! Ask Zac is one of the most consistently watchable and highly informative guitar shows I've found. You and Buk have both really been delivering the last few months when things have been weird. Cheers!

Great episode Zac! I just purchased my first Klon clones. Have the Archer and the Tumnus. Both are pretty fantastic. I love how they preserve the basic sound of tele into deluxe reverb... just adds a touch of grit without the tubescreamer mid hump. I know "transparent overdrive" is now one of those marketing buzzwords, but it's what these kind of pedals do. I LOVE the sound of a tele into a blackface fender amp, and these preserves that sound and gives you just a little something extra. If I had mountains of cash laying around, I'd probably get a real Klon. But for a working schlub like me the clones do a good enough approximation.

If I had one I'd sell it and get one of Bills newer KTRs... and buy another tele with the change.

Name-dropping much? Awesome!!

Just get the EHX Soul food it's amazing and very close, A great transparent overdrive! And only $60 used on Reverb lol

My Roland CE-1 sold on Reverb in 5 minutes a few months back. Could have been 30 seconds but I was too busy responding to offers. Vintage market is still strong.

Great! Wonderful way to tell the story of this pedal! When you showed the gold one I almost fell over! Best regards! 👏😉🎸🇧🇷

It is always great to see your videos! I learn a lot from all the experience and gear wisdom you have. Hello, from Mexico

Over the years I've had a love hate relationship with my Tumnus. I've bought and sold it twice. Once I found the sweet spot on the gain and understood what it's for, it stays on the board at the ready. Soloed in a mix or by itself the midrange and pick attack is a bit much. But in context, in the heat of battle its a must have. Thanks for confirming my thoughts.

I used to have s/n 064 which was a silver horsie. As you say it didn't sound very good turned up. Sounded like any other distortion box to me. But it was fantastic at pushing an on the edge amp over into more distortion. The main thing at the time was that it didn't heavily compress the sound. You still had feel and dynamics left over. A number of folks started using them stacked so that they could get more gain but not squash all the dynamics. I ended up selling it to pay the rent during a hard time. And I wasn't using it. A Zendrive had become my main drive pedal. Much more natural at higher drive settings and decent dynamics. That's been supplanted by a Mad Professor Supreme which has more dynamics than the Zen. It would be interesting if I still had the Klon to compare the dynamics between the two.

I've got a tumnus mini and its probably my favorite pedal on my board to go with my tele's. The Klon circuit is still timeless and awesome!!

Crazy money for something that only changes the mids, I wouldn't buy one now for sure.Maybe a clone for klon.Hahaha. Glad your stepping into New territory with the pedals. I've got a few effects but nothing outrageous.🎸😎

I love history videos like this one, Zac. Thanks! After poking around to find a pedal to "beef up" my '65 Mustand and 60s Danelectro, I tried the J. Rockett IKON (the gold one) and have stuck with it ever since. There are other drives I really like (The DOD 250 and Looking Glass, Joe Gore's Cult), but the IKON is cool because it just makes my Mustang sound bigger without being a dirt machine. So, thank you Bill, and I'm sorry I didn't buy a Klon from you back in '05.

When I bought my original silver one new from Bill, I didn't care for it and put it away for years. Pulled it back out and tried it again and something changed. Then prices went up in 2010. Then I traded that silver one to a guy with a gold horse one who just wanted a newer one for some reason. I still have the Gold Horse one to this day, although it's on loan to a friend.

They make a bunch of really great clones in the 150-250 price range. I have a J rocket audio Archer and its an always on pedal with my deluxe reverb, gives it some much needed midrange

Man that was interesting, I’d never thought about the size being for the layout of components.. brilliant.. My AskZac hoodie is on the way, now just have to wait for winter 🤙🏼

Another great episode. I ordered an AskZac tee shirt and mug a few minutes ago. The order will cost an extra ~33% up here in Canada due to the currency exchange difference; however, for all that I’ve learned from you such as songs like Amazing Grace and guitar licks, guitar and gear insights and reviews, and stories from your life as a guitar player, it is a very worthwhile purchase. Thanks!

I have an exact replica of the Klon Centaur with the same wiring and everything made by a Polish friend of mine and its amazing

Thnx a mil, Z, for another dandy, relaxing video visit. ;) I can’t afford a vintage Klon. For me, it was a serious toss up between the Archer and a Tumnus Deluxe. I kinda like Brian’s pedal goodies, generally speaking so. . . I really dig my Tumnus Deluxe. I’m very pleased with it. It’s my favourite OD pedal out of all the different ones I’ve used or heard.

If your amp is McCartney, the klon(e) is Lennon singing along with it.

Oh! I see the Ask Zac intro rif. Gonna click on my Archer and try to duplicate! Another great video. Thanks!

Just a thought for an interesting video - something on the Fender Esquire maybe? Not sure how versatile they are when you can just use a Tele and have the neck pickup as well.

Great video... again! I had no idea that they were based on a cranked Twin- learn something new every day. Use my Klon clone for hig gain though... everyone is different. Cheers, Zac!

Thanks Zac! Mine is an early one I bought from Bill. Amazing pedal but it’s not practical for the club guitarist because you need to crank the amp to hear the beauty. Sounds amazing loud through my 67 Super Reverb loud!

I have no understanding of pedals. But Klon Centauri... in 2003, I spent a night in the country side of Finland watching some outdoor gigs, and chatting with the guy who invented it, who had joined Jim Campilongo coming over to Finland. So we talked about transparency, true-by-pass, tones, prices and what not. I only had a tubescreamer clone back then, and don't have that either anymore. What a night it was. In the middle of nowhere, forest by a lake, big show with many bands, but only like 200 people there. Also met Keith Wyatt there, did not know he was on the bill, I had just practiced his instructional book the same morning! I only went there (3.5h train trip) because a local telecaster geek I had emailed with asked me to join (had never met him either), and then he called me on the train, that he could not make it. Lovely night anyways. And a great pedal, I bet. :D

One of the best ‘Klon Klones’ is from a guy called Mark Mills @butterflyeffectspedals ... it’s called the Golden Arrow. Beautiful transparent boost - and Mark’s build quality is second to none.

Nice. Thanks Zac.

I bought one of his KTR pedals last year, and it sounds great to me! Also have a Tumnus mini, but the KTR rules!

It took me a while to find out how the Klon worked for me, that you put it on top of an already grindy tone to make it go to eleven. I put mine in front of a TK999 Tube King to make a really fun lead tone.

I drool every time I see that crooks tele. Maybe the birth of chicken picking? Or just “the birth of..” series would be a cool idea to continue. Many people in the comments seem to like it.

Thanks for the look behind the curtain Zac. Kinda like a Dumble ,no denying the tone. Just more than I’d pay for an amp or a pedal unless I had unlimited resources .

Loved it, Zak.

I used to have a silver no horsie, but sold it after I got a KTR to compare. This is around 2010. I still have the KTR, but I would recommend the Ceriatone Centura, which is a perfect clone. Same layout and parts. The KTR doesn't have the same parts (surface mount). They all sound good.

Excellent episode Zac. I've watched this one many times. Any plans on a KoT episode?

The KLON should not be called an overdrive pedal as that is misleading. Yes it does have clipping diodes in the circuitry that would imply that. The KLON is more of a "clean" boost pedal that would push an amplifiers pre-amp section harder as its bumping up the signal feeding it beyond what the guitar pickup is capable of doing on its own......as thats where the source wave is from. The upper parameters of the KLON's adjustments will let it cross over to its own saturation level internally, but the use of the pedal is for the transparent boost. The IC chip that they chose to use is a very sterile response chip. >>>>>>>>>I had built a custom distribution box for a client so he could run about 5 amplifiers at the same time without daisy chaining them where he was loosing signal strength from his guitar and thus not driving the amps properly.....so I built the distribution box with a clean low level pre-amp and a buffer using an IC chip OP amp. So I purchased about 16 different IC chips within the same family of OP amps as they were all interchangeable . I'm a tube guy so with tubes and it carries over to the IC chips, they will be equivalents but each will have its sonic thing to it for response.......12ax7's are not equal and you have to select the right one for particular applications as some can sound brighter and some warmer, but the point is they are not clones of each other and exact copies. >>>>>Hence another client came to me to build a custom KLON clone based on a circuit board kit he obtained. So there was some research involved due to the originals being gooped and concealed, but I had a client with a real KLON as a bench mark. SO there was information available about a KLON that had the goop removed to reveal the guts. Hence to make the kit project viable, the resistors were not material, it was all the signal capacitors and electrolytics that the originals used, AND to use IC sockets. SO they used PANASONIC parts originally and some of which were still available, but being this is not a major window in time....the problem was ROHS standards and the changes in formulation of the components being affected. So as many original type were obtained as well as parts that superseded those that were discontinued in the Panasonic line. In the end result, we had the real KLON and a $400 boutique KLON clone for comparision side by side. Right off, the Boutique KLON clone DID NOT SOUND anything like the original real KLON and was disqualified. The clone I had built also employed a rotary switch for the clipping diodes as I used several types thus being switchable......as there was alot of hype as to the clipping diodes in the original KLONs. The end result was that based on my clients ears, and after going thru a long afternoon of screening the IC chips I had to interchange.......the original TL-072 chips were not used as they did not sound appropriate or musical. SO we settled in to a pair of chips that sounded MUSICAL and being 2 IC sockets in the circuitry they were not a pair of the same IC chips but 2 different ones selected for the particular position in the circuit. As for the rotary switch and the multiple diodes types, each had their character in position, but on the rotary switch I also left one position to be without any diodes so it was just the straight OP amp......and that position has its thing to it. SO to be clear, we did employ the exact diodes used in the originals in one of the positions. AND after the first trial, the diodes cause a slight signal drop so the diodes were arranged on the rotary switch to reflect a stepped up situation based on their forward voltage effects & the drop, with the last position being NO diodes. Conclusion with the clients ears, and he can hear exceptionally well, the KLON kit I built and modified was about 90% that or the original KLON we had on hand to compare it to......without using the original TL-072 IC chips. >>>>>>>and as you mention in your comparison of the gold and silver you had......there is that variance between original pedal builds. BUT one issue that may be in play with the pedal guts being gooped and hidden, is that the guy may have used different batches of capacitors along the line based on what he ordered or was available to him in the moment.......as with tube amplifiers they function as filters which affect the signal passing thru them and the materials used in construction is significant on the sonic character of the piece......if one were to narrow the variance

I like mid tones and it sounded great. thanks!

I have a RYRA Klone and I love it. But I like the gain cranked up to 3:00 or so.

Hey Zac. I sold mine for around 700 AUD. Do I regret it, only as a premature asset loss. Tone wise no. I ran it into a Vibro King which wasn't optimum to the the intended design. Bill's included KLON instructions said if your amp isn't at break up level, then you need a smaller amp. It was unique in its time, but there a myriad of alternatives now. In a band mix very few in the audience or on stage would discern the difference of some of the better made ones. Given we play guitars and some even 'play' their amp, that's where my money would go today rather a currently priced KLON. p.s. I'm sure yours works for Yu as intended and sounds sweet. Cheers.👍

I enjoyed this video

i had a good laugh at reverb.com "Klon War", for a couple years.

Liked before even listening :)

Ever tried a late 90’s or early 2000’s Fulldrive 2 in CompCut mode? I’ve two of them; a late 90’s flat mids version and the ‘toggle’ version from the early 2000’s. Can do pretty much the same thing as the Klon’s and Klones I’ve ever heard as well as provide smooth and fat drive with both channels on it the CompCut mode for a fraction of the price used.

After trying many Klon clones, even the KTR and Centura, my best Klon clone is the Wildwood Mjolnir by Mythos Pedals. I do not need to chase for the Klon tone.

Can you not get roughly the same effect with a $100 Boss EQ pedal?

The pedal use actually 27v Power supply with asymmetric +18 and-9. I still don’t understand that much hype about it. Yesterday ON My CHANNEL I compared the good Klon copy - Mosky with Real tube pedal SD Twin Tube Which is miles better and really cheap

have you ever encountered a Hot Cake pedal from New Zealand? Paul Crowther of Split Enz developed it in the 70s

I also purchased one from Bill in 2006 I think it was, For many years my Drive section was a Timmy and a Silver Klon. Pretty good rig. Sweet spot with my Silver Klon was about 9-10 o'clock on the gain range for me. I never quite got the idea that the gain should be off - especially given that the "mythical germanium diodes" aren't even doing anything at that point. I actually don't think that Klon is that unique as a clean boost with gain at zero, and as you said beyond 12 o'clock ...or I'd say even maybe 11 o'clock things get a bit ugly. Like so many folks I eventually sold my original to the lure of the eBay dollar & have been through ALL the well regarded Klones since, including Bill's own KTR. Closest to my ear to the original is the Centura which is, interestingly in a big box. Like you I believe that makes a difference. A couple of my faves from that family of drives are actually slight deviations on the Klon theme. The Mythos Mjolnir has a slightly different character with Klon headroom and feel. The Rockett Rockaway Archer with the graphic is super versatile too.

I liked the sound of your deluxe unaffected tone better. I have so many pedals that sound sweet boosting my amps - I honestly don’t hear anything here that turns my head. An old Ross distortion you can pick up cheap has a real transparent gain knob with some mid range boost. Way Huge pork loin or saucy box with the alternate paths of clean and distortion that you mix sounds utterly glorious

Your guitar sounds nicer with the Klon off!

I have two Klon type pedals. The VFE Merman and the Way Huge Conspiracy Theory. I like them into Fender Amps, but not into Vox Style Amps. I think a Bluesbreaker Style Pedal, or a Way Hugh Saucy Box works better with my 65 Amps London.

I remember looking at these on eBay in the early/mid 2000's thinking $300-400 for one was crazy.

Good stuff, thanks! Maybe I missed it, but do you say exactly what the pedal is set at in the end section?

I bought a Karma MT 10 distortion. When switched off it seems to be milking some of my high and low tones from my clean tone. Is that normal?

Great video. Thanks Zac. Quick couple of questions about your Crook guitar. Did you change the neck yourself after you got it? Is it an original or did you buy a modern replacement from Fender? Do you prefer the feel over Bill's necks or is it just for looks? Thanks again

I bought one on Wish for foty dollas!!!!

I cant afford to buy one of those..so I guess i will have to stick to my Keeley modded Boss Ds1...I like it ..end of.

I had a Klon years ago. I was on the road and traded it for a Carl Martin Compressor. Oops..

Interesting that he played the Centaur on a clean amp when ostensibly the pedal was designed to boost an already dirty amp even further into breakup.

Wasn't the Zen Drive inspired by the Klon ? prob said that :)

I know it’s been asked but do you have a tab for the intro music?

Zac called a centaur a "horsie."

ive never watched yer channel much.....this was cool tho.....the birth of botique.....i like that.

Wow, those are online for $2800 and up.....

Great pedal but price doesn’t reflect the actual number of them made IMO. Had a chance to get a gold one and when I played it loud I thought it was great but that kind of money was most of my first Two Rock and that did more to solve what I personally don’t like about Blackface amps than the Klon did.

Spanky clean is the sound for me personally. But each to his own type of sound...

Several people keep saying "the pedal was designed for this, or that...clean boost this and that..." where is there any definitive sources of Finnegan saying what the pedal was designed for?? And why would he put the extra gain that is avilable on the pedal if it wasn't meant to go into the higher gain area? I don't understand the exclusivity of this pedal's usage and myth...

I like plenty of players that use them, but a Klon type pedal doesn't do it for me personally. The warmer mids are are not what I have a Tele for to begin with. I tend to run the Tele on the warmer side anyway, so the Klon doesn't enhance anything for me, it just masks it slightly. But like I said, so many really great players that I admire really make it work for them. I guess not "needing" one saves me a lot of money!! lol

karma mtn-10 bought from your video thanks they asked me wher i heard about it i replied ASK ZAC HAD EARLY KLON WHERE YOU CALLED TO ORDER FROM VG AD SOLD EARLY TOO NEVER SAID I WAS SMART CALCULUS IN HS

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