The Knot They Say You Should NEVER Tie!!! 

Yes adding a stopper knot is a great security feature! Any favourite?

Figure 8

Yes splicing is absolutely the best solution for many applications, especially critical ones like standing rigging!

Yes to a longer tail and adding a half hitch after it should also keep it from slipping

@@CullenKasunic Nice and simple safety measures!

When the knot slips and its dry it cause friction and heat. Uhmwpe ropes do not cope well with heat. On a boat its usually ok cause the knots are more prone to be somewhat wet.

@@mylifeisdope916 Yes the speed of the slip is also a major factor in determining how much heat is generated!

That’s a good suggestion and is still easy to tie - thanks for that!

Many bowlines? You mean wrong versions of the correct one? I've tied a standard bowline for 40,000 sea miles and never had one be unfaithful. To be fair, I wasn't using Dyneema.

There is only 1 bowline knot. Using a round turn or 2 on the piece you are tying on to is sometimes wise. But that is still a bowline

Moreover the tie weakens ropes less for a couple percent and less prone for untieing with variable multidirectional load

Good suggestion!

Yes that’s a great suggestion - thanks!

The inspiration for the title is that another sailor told me they had heard you should never tie a bowline in Dyneema and asked me to explain why!

The back story behind the title is that another sailor told me they heard you should never tie a bowline in Dyneema and asked me why! Glad you liked the tri sailing footage - that was a great day!!!

Good suggestion thanks!!!

The square knot is one of the most dangerous knots there is, it should be only used to tie things that don't matter.

Oh BTW I do love your channel. Appreciate you telling an old fisherman about sailing. Thanks, I look forward to seeing more.

As a commercial fisherman on the Bering Sea I’m sure you have stories that would turn most grown men to sobbing masses! Yes I agree that there are limitations, and maybe it was the electrical tape that helped the knot hold - I should test it without and see how that holds. I also think it’s important for people to know their loads and size their knots, lines, and gear accordingly. Most rigging loads on most sailing boats under 40’ / 12m max out at around half a ton, which is about 20% the breaking strength of 5/16 or 5mm Dyneema, and also well below where I’ve ever tested a Dyneema knot to slip. Obviously you would want to use something like a splice on standing rigging but the point of this video is that people don’t have to be quite as afraid of knots in Dyneema as they tend to be!

@@MrM-hl1vp And I’m glad you like the channel - thanks for watching!

I think it's important to understand your particular use case and good to see that you do! Most sailors use 3/16" 5mm or 1/4" 6mm Dyneema which breaks at 12.5 and 4 tons respectively, but most sailing boats under 40' never see running rigging loads greater than around half a ton, which is well below where a knot in Dyneema will generally give you trouble in this size of line. You are using much smaller line which is loaded to a much higher percentage of its breaking load so it's good that you've found the right knot!

Good suggestion!

Thanks - glad you like it!

I have Dyneema shrouds on my F-82R as well and the ends are spliced which is the best method of terminating Dyneema. I created this video because somebody asked me to explain why you should never tie a bowline in Dyneema, as there is some folklore that it will always slip out, which isn’t quite true.

That looks pretty fancy!!!

Good suggestion - thanks!!!

@@SailingTipsCa I read down after and seen that a few others had made similar suggestions of a few variations of the lock loop. I just use a single "P" shaped loop over the rope next to the tail. Once you release the main loop of the tensioned side, the P loop typically falls apart as well. But with that slippery braid you may need to experiment a little I guess. > I worked with an old feller back when I was young who claimed to be the fastest at undoing any bad knot. He would pull his razor pocket knife off his belt and zip, knot undone. Funny old character he was :) > A was just thinking you can splice those braids to put a loop or terminator end on them that wont pull through, but that can lead to other problems depending upon where you are using the ropes. We always used special non stretch braid in water skiing so splicing was the only way (Never knots in ski lines). > Thanks for the video and reply. P.S. Oh, I think the reason some say to not use a bowline is that they can slowly undo when when sitting "loose knot" in the wind, thus the recommended lock loop or P lock if you wish.

P.S.S. I wasn't being silly about the story with the old fella and the knife. In a time critical emergency a knife is the fastest way. Rope is relatively cheap compared to your life :) As an extreme example our local pro fisherman and trawlers often use steel cable (Supper strong rope if you wish). There is always an axe with a hardened steel sharp edge for "quickly releasing" cables next the the main spools. That axe (and the speed of releasing that cable) is the difference between life and death in many situations.

@@axle.australian.patriot Yes it’s required by the racing safety requirements for there to be a sharp knife in the boat cockpit for emergency use. Bowlines are often used to attach headsail sheets, which can get flogged about a fair bit when tacking or gybing, but still I’ve never had one come undone. Thanks for the comments!

Yes that would have been good to test! In practice I’ve used them mostly for attaching spinnaker sheets on sport boats, which do include periods of loading and flogging (unfortunately) and have never had one come loose.

I agree, the knot needs to set under high tension. I use bowlines on heavy mooring bridles, but tie the ends down as I find it difficult to pull enough tension. Once in use it is fine.

@@markthomasson5077 Yes the setting part is critical!

Yes it is easy to untie after loaded! At the same time I don’t think I’ve ever seen one untie itself even when attached to a flogging sail!

@@SailingTipsCa On a flogging foresail, I have seen sheets untied, if the bitter end is too short.

@@dmitripogosian5084 Yes you definitely want at least 3” or 8 cm of tail on sheets!

@@SailingTipsCa Indeed, and the one at the start of the video looked too short for me :) Though on dinghies with standard polyester halyards, we were taught to tie a very tight bowline for the main sail halyard

Yes tying in front of you with your eyes closed is the easiest way of simulating tying in the dark, which is the most likely scenario of having to tie anything without being able to see. I can’t think of any practical application of tying behind your back other than as a party trick!

Haven't mastered the one-handed technique but pretty good behind my back! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-OOqvkI_90Y8.html

That's a good suggestion and alternative to the bowline - thanks for that!

I found your video very informative- the bowline held better than I thought it would! Thanks. @@SailingTipsCa

@@jims5338 Yes I also thought it would slip out under the constantly increasing pressure of the jack, which is different than the dynamic loading on a boat that tends to set knots!

Good suggestion - thanks!!!

There’s a widely held belief (myth?) in the sailing community that you should never tie a bowline in Dyneema. One sailor asked me to explain why so I made this video to bust the myth, so to speak.

@@SailingTipsCaAh, thank You for clarifying. Although the title may be a little misleading.

@@streptokokke1003 It was supposed to be tongue-in-cheek which can be misleading!

LOL in the video yes! However I do tie bowlines in raw Dyneema every time I go sailing and in some high load applications (e.g. reefing lines) and I’ve never had one shake out, pull out, or fail in any way.

Yes I agree - they have a great channel!!!

It’s a great knot!!!

I made this video because another sailor asked me to explain why you should never tie a bowline in Dyneema! It’s a bit of a myth out there…

Those guys at HowNot2 make great videos! As they showed you’re not (pun intended) going to get full breaking strength with a knot like you would with a splice, but Dyneema is also so strong that not getting full breaking strength isn’t necessarily a problem. For example, working loads on running rigging for most sailing boats under 40’ / 12m is about half a ton, or about 25% of the breaking strength of 3/16” / 5mm Dyneema, which is also well below the load where a knot will cause you problems. So saying “knots in Dyneema are bad” is kind of like saying “fire is bad” without context - sometimes it is bad, but sometimes it isn’t and can even be helpful!