When people point out how weird it is that Hyein, for example, debuted at 14, I have noticed that fans will claim critics are “bullying a 14 year old” or “destroying her dreams.” These leaps in logic are most likely because these comments are written by people Hyein’s age or even younger who perceive this criticism as belittling kids/pre-teens. That always reminds me that another reason fans tolerate super young idols is because a large chunk of k-pop fandom are pre-teens themselves who get joy out of someone their age being treated like an adult, the way they wish they were respected by the adults around them. These fans are too young to understand how the industry is actually harming these idols or why age matters in the discussion.
Now this is a big problem. If the backlash is too big and we pull idols like Hyein out right now, we crushed them and their career, . Maybe 18 makes more sense and seem like a mid point., the bullying of idols and psychological maturity and well being of idol kids is still not being taken seriously. And education on telling ppl not to cyber bully idols is like an insurmountable wall. Hyein and Eunchae is still beloved. People like Yuna and Wonyoung are attacked relentlessly just for breathing. My biggest gripe of debuting children is the bullying honestly
@@lukelim5094 Not just bullying. The kpop industry is heavily based on looks, i remember a female kpop idol possibly Ashley Choi (former Ladies Code) talking on DIVE Studios about how one of the staff told her her "knees didn't look pretty". Another reason would be fap cams and just creepy fans in general. This needs no explaining because there's just so many examples out there, was it Girl's Generation? I remember a clip of them saying to be careful of older idols. There's just so much I could say, like how I don't think children need to deal with the aftermaths of fame (never being able to go freely outside with no mask etc). The crazy schedules allowing no sleep. No time to go to school. Once you're in this industry, and especially if you're well known, it's hard to change your career, and with how competitive south korea is when it comes to going to university, I think it's clear that if your grades weren't stellar you're stuck in this industry if you want to make a living.
@@Aiko-jf1lq in a sense all you stated is a form of bullying isn't it. Ashley case was like bullying for not being pretty enough, not stopping sexualisation of minors and not taking actions is also a form of bullying, and the unsavoury comments is outright bully. But the thing is The whole K-pop industry is based on how hot , sexy and lover/boy or girl friend material the idol is. In terms of looks of course. Take away those, does the industry work? Or is it our fault as consumers for wanting that demand met? South Korea has an epidemic of bully culture that permeates their whole society on a level higher than other countries because of their need to be competitive. I don't necessarily blame them because it is the environment and historical reasoning that made them have this survival mechanism. But The glory as a movie won't be that resonating if their culture isn't that bad. And it seep into no one wanting children now. It is sad.
When I saw all the hate Wonyoung was getting, I thought it was crazy and unhinged as fuck. I went to look up her age and she was born in 2004???? She is currently like 18, not even 19 yet and she has been an idol for 4 5 years??? Like?? Who thought putting a child like that up to the spot light and that much scrutiny is a good idea?
for sure.. i mean she hasn't been able to be seen as a child since iz*one - she was constantly pushed to be the perfect pretty girl ever since debut so at this point no one even thinks about how old she really is, just the age she has been forced to portray herself as. Hyuna's song Babe is very likely about how she was pressured to be the age that others forced her to be - when she was young she had to look older, when she was older she had to look younger.
Yup she was 13 in produce48 and they put her to perform in side to side by ariana and she was in not appropiate clothing dor her age...there were a couple of people thar spoke up saying how it was wrong..but majority said there was no problem and that ppl were overreacting. Also many were talking about how good her porportions were. That is why im not shocked that she got work done at such a young age.
Min Heejin won't change. She mentioned that NJ's success has reinforced her belief in the direction she is taking with NJ. Her stance remains steadfast. Numerous NJ fans hold Min Heejin in high regard, actually worshipping her, and her personal brand is only becoming stronger. Min Heejin has no reason to change. For Hybe, when Hybe singed Minheejin, Minheejin demanded total control of creative decision-making, with no interruption from Hybe. So Hyne put that in the contract. I'm not sure how much Hybe could influence Min Heejin at this moment.
I feel like the ETA cult thing was definitely on purpose and to bring attention (even if it was negative attention) to their comeback. I believe that was also the intention of cookie. Min Heejin seems to thrive off of bad publicity to draw people in. She’s not stupid, she’s a very smart strategic person. Which is why she always has quick reasons and answers in her back pocket, to defend herself and the group as soon as people start talking. She makes very clear decisions on how she wants to promote them. And while I do love NewJeans, I’m not a fan of her way or idea of promoting them at all.
The only people who gave that song a negative meaning are the jobless antis on twitter, like YOU... They've explained it since DAY 1, the Title, the Date, and the names to be revealed on set release date, but y'all chose to turn a blind eye and make all this false narratives and spread misinformation just to try and sabotage their comeback. Y'all would cry to "protect minors" while calling them "terr0rists" at the same time. Always using MHJ to justify your hate towards the girls. Take your fake concern somewhere else..
I see this argument being true with cookie but ETA was just a HUUUUGE leap in logic for me. Like, ETA is a super common abbreviation and a car shot in a teaser as well as the names used are just so common in Spain where it was filmed or for MVs in general. I personally think sparking controversy was not the point here because if it was, it was executed VERY poorly, which is atypical for Min Heejin. In opposition to cookie, ETA didn't actually have any problematic implications in the song and MV itself.
The justification that companies prefer young idols due to longevity doesn't quite stack up. Let's be for real. It doesn't matter how young an idol group is, the company will most likely lose interest in the group by the time the 7 years is up. It's always "on to the next" with these companies. So just best to debut actual adults who you want to depict maturely, and move on to younger adults when you get tired of them 🤷🏿♀️
In some way, I also see the Korean government being part of the issue as they actively support the export(?) of K-Pop and Korean culture. And when they do so, they allow companies to do such things as debut minors in groups with questionable adults working with these kids (Agents, Managers, Parents, etc.). Additionally, the Korean government has shown (more than once) to be scummy, so at the current moment, I would not be surpised if nothing changes in the industry unless the governement says something. However, I do not know the extent of how a government works with the economy in the entertainment industry, so this is my guess for the moment.
They actually push a new regulation to address some issues about it recently. To be honest, I personally believe pushing regulations to prohibit minors become an idol by the government is the most reasonable way to solve this issue.
I'm 23, and i put a rule for myself. I'm gonna listen to the music but won't stan nor buy their albums until nj are all 18, because i dont feel comfy having photocards of someone who is 8 years younger than me (even tho the bag album concept is so dope, they almost got me) I bought young luv by stayc not knowing that one of the members was still 17 at the time, i cant remember who, but i wanted to buy it to support the girls 😭
Man dont stress it too much. Just buy whatever you want. Photobooks are like modelling catalogues. Its about concepts and artistry those photographers try to convey. As long as you dont have something inapropriate in your mind ... i think its okay.
Last year when SNSD had their 15th year anniversary comeback together with variety show content, Sooyoung (I hope I got the correct person) mentioned that when she was active in SNSD, she felt like all her personal growth was on hold. Basically things that she’s supposed to learn and experience as an early 20plus young adult, she never experience it until much later. She said she needed to learn how to book her own tickets etc (the gist of it were because she always has people who did it for her). That story stuck to me in a way that idol life is really unsustainable and especially to those started on younger age, they would have harder time.
34:45 people shipping Haerin with Danielle is also disgusting.. I thought it just a friendship and harmless ship at first because they had a mv together for Hype boy but.. people are taking it too far , creating ship edits with the smallest moments ever and ugh..even fanfics of them🤮
I believe the reason the industry likes to recruit this young is because the young teens are much easier to control as they are much less likely to question authority. Especially with A2K, most of these American and Canadian girls have no Korean cultural background or knowledge so they can be told absolutely anything and how would they know if it's true? They will also be geographically very distant from their personal support network of family and friends. A "culture of silence" in which one does not complain - even of serious pain or outright dangerous, even life-threatening, conditions - is what allowed the perverted doctor to molest hundreds of American pre-teen and teen female gymnasts and at least one male, and college athletes over a minimum of three decades. (He has been sentenced to over 100 years in jail.) The college students who tried to report him in the late 1990s were asked if they were able to afford attending Michigan State University without their sports scholarship, and they said no. Then they were told they had better keep their mouth shut, or else their scholarship would be revoked. Being 17 or 18 or even 22 does not make newcomers necessarily better equipped to know what industry standards are, and/or to stand up for themselves. Look at American rapper Lizzo and the allegations her backup dancers made about her. These American dancers, who are adults, were new to the entertainment industry and were told that what was being demanded of them was normal. They didn't know any better, although 1. They're adults; and 2. They are American, and have been raised in a culture where one is presumably much more free to speak one's mind, and one is much more encouraged to be assertive, than in Korean culture. (Apologies if I am misunderstanding Korean culture.) They were also following their dream, as they had won Lizzo's reality contest in order to become her back up dancers. Fame is something so many humans crave whether for themselves, or for their children, that I doubt that there will ever be a shortage of parents willing to let their kids enter any and every aspect of the entertainment industry in any country, no matter how bad a reputation it has. (I am not saying Lizzo's back up dancers were craving fame. They desired to fulfill their dream of being a professional dancer. Because of their size, they obviously had a lot of difficulty getting hired by anybody else. Of course, Lizzo was fully aware of this, which made her alleged abuse of power even greater. Although, even if a slender dancer wanted to complain, Lizzo or any employer could threaten to spread this dancer's name all over the industry so that nobody would hire her again.) Thank you for making this video! 🙏🎯🌺
As kpop is going more global, more kids are starting to like kpop (so many of my kid cousins like bts or blackpink) and I think eventually companies will debut KIDS (like not even teenagers) to appeal to their young audience. Not to mention the younger the idol, the easier they are to manipulate and they last longer in the industry
the argument people have for debuting kids is always 'oh but __ idol debuted even younger so it's fine' when you could easily argue those are BOTH bad. hyuna is used so much as an example and she's has been open about the fact she didn't like it, IU as well
The money isn’t in streams or views, it comes from merch and album sales.. that’s what makes k-pop K-POP, you know? The overconsumption of the aesthetics like photocards and merch is what is driving these companies to debut the younger idols. They know who is selling the most and sadly it’s usually the youngest ones and the most popular (naturally).
Most of the money comes from merch and album sales but they still get money from views and streams. Also what makes K-pop K-pop is having pop music sung in Korean, merch and album sales exist in every genre
God forbid you don’t want kids to do child labour and go through abuse in the hands of the industry, then you’re seen as jealous and “a dream destroyer” please, where are their parents…
honestly i only boycott because of personal discomfort. it's not that i think boycotting will affect anything, it just makes me feel better to not remotely support Adora or Attrakt (i've only really boycotted NJ and FiFi's music). Adora is just because how brazen Min Heejin has been with her clear affinity for p*do themes (i actually don't know if she is really one herself, or that is obsessed with the 'artistic'... side of it) and how she gets away with it so easily - the vast majority of NJ's fanbase is normal but her behaviour (and the passive inaction or small implications from the wider kpop community) is definitely encouraging the minority of adult creeps. i remember being really uncomfortable with the attitude towards Wonyoung after PD48 was over as people looked at her and had no thought to her age - and when iz*one debuted and i heard the amount of OBVIOUSLY adult men YELL when she had her solo moment.. that's stuck with me ever since and i always have such mixed opinions about Wonyoung because yes she's amazing and truly a gem but there has been so many people influencing/manipulating their way into her life.
Specifically about the recent MVs and even OMG, it was confirmed that their MV director Shin Wooseok had FULL control over the direction and themes of the MV, the reason why him and his company The Dolphin Kidnappers (which only does advertisements in Korea) agreed cause they were given 100% control over the MVs by min heejin. The OMG MV and even the last scene were all by Wooseok and he even answered interview questions by Korean media but people dont care and assumed it was all min heejin. About the ETA MV, the names were named after Arsenal football teams managers cause Wooseok himself is a big fan of the team, he named the main male lead (played by Vela) Arsene which is after named after Arsene Wenger and Mikel after Mikel Arteta the newest manager of Arsenal. He was personally suprised kpop fans made the theories and even sent him death threats. You can find out more about this in the recent interview with Korean streamer Calm Man on his RU-vid. Taejiu, you should have done some deeper research before making this video cause there is a lot of wrong info, not everything was decided by Min heejin.
His attempt can be inicent but it doesn't look good. There are too many coincidence and it looks like they did it for us to talk about it. And I am sure they knew we will notice it or think about it. I don't care about his reasons, this doesn't look ok
The thing that terrifies the most regarding idols is the long term effects the disordered eating can have on their bodies, I think putting minors in that position can be very harmful towards their health and it should be avoided at all costs
i have a feeling that in 10-20 years this issue will die down, especially as we see these minors talk more heavily about it in retrospect and as it gets more frowned upon in korea.
The only way to impact is to boycott. Entirely and collectively. But korea will always have the main stake in this kind of thing and you can guess how much they care about wellbeing of idols compared to international fans
I think is impossible to stop companies from debuting idols at susch a young age, but as a part of the kpop community I think we could make at least the internet spaces more safe for minors, from idols to even other kpop fans, I know is hard bcs there is so many people and we cannot control everything but if we collectively put our effort to make our community less toxic and more safe it's not an impossible goal. Or at least we should try, if we really are concerned about this things.
It is possible, boycott companies who debut minors and don't support groups with minors in and petition for the government to put laws in place banning the debut of kids, it will stop overnight but it means K-pop fans won't be able to enjoy music they like so they won't do it
I want to join your discord server but link is not working. How can I join it? Also this is a great video. I've heard a lot of different opinions I haven't heard so far thanks to you. Thank you.
I wonder why K-pop fans don't come together to boycott or protest when things like this happen. Like, NewJeans has seen nothing but success, and groups with a majority of minors seem to be totally fine, if not better, because of the attention that came from the scandal. It's pretty annoying that stans can send trucks in front of a company because an idol's getting married or boycotting a member for a dating scandal but can't send a message to a company that's putting minors in an exploitative industry? The double standards are insane, they don't want to realize the truth because it's their favorite group. I don't think any of these groups should be hated on, but if you want to send a message to these companies, you need to take action.
Like I said the perfect age to debut an idol is 21 22 to 23 years old I mean take sm for example there new boy group and there age range in 22 21 and 19 years old and that’s the perfect age and I hope sm continues to debut adults and I really really hope that other companies follow Sm entertainment example. And I really hope the government will Also Step in and say enough is enough to Kpop companies if they keep doing this. And I really don’t like the fact how sometimes when people in there 20’s apply for auditions or survival show they just have a t tone and say oh aren’t you to old for being an artist like really your considering that being in your 20s is to old like really that’s a bunch of BS age shouldn’t be the number one thing to be an artist I think that companies should Just only look for passion and that they can see that this is what they really want to be an artist and I really really hope this will change very soon cuss there is one company called nature space and they just debut 2 groups one of them is called Xeed and the oldest member of the group is 30 and the youngest is 26 and they have another group that are all 90’s liner and the youngest to the second group is an 01 liner. And yes I am aware that SM did used to debut minors before but they haven’t done that for a while now and I think that’s really good of them and I think there cut of age is 23 or 24
A whole NewJeans section after you went to Lollapalooza to see them, and continue to listen to their music. I don't fully disagree with the section, but it's a bit hypocritical- yes, simply just stop listening to the music. It's not that hard, their music will never be THAT good. "When will enough, actually be enough?" You say as you defend supporting NewJeans and other groups with minors. It doesn't matter if your personal boycott would never do anything- it should be enough for yourself and your personal values. It's like buying from from Balenciaga after going on a rant about their controversial advertising campaign. I personally don't find anything wrong with any "controversies" connected to NewJeans besides Cookie, I think if it wasn't for MHJ a lot of you would would find nothing wrong with these recent "controversies". But for the majority of you who continue to find problems with their content I have to ask why you're on their RU-vid every comeback just like their fans? Is NewJeans music really worth it?
I don’t think the Balenciaga example makes a lot of sense, I would have to spend hundreds of dollars to buy something of that magnitude, I have spent a grand total of 0 dollars on NewJeans, I get what you meant but the example doesn’t hold up. Also I think someone's music being "that good" is up to the listener, some while disagreeing with debuting young idols, will still stream the music because it is that good to them. Sure these people are hypocrites but at that point that's just a title your placing upon them, that doesn't change any of their actions. I'm also not really defending supporting them, I just understand why people do, including myself to an extent, and if you have a problem with that, cool. That's kind of the whole point of the video.
@@Taejiu You went to see NewJeans at Lollapalooza and continue to stream their music; Money from multiple sources adds up, your $1 is a lot when you add up how many other people have the same mindset as you. Boycotts aren't just "I'll do it because it will work" it's supposed to be something you do for your own values. What message does you going to see NewJeans and listening to their music send Ador despite the controversies? Music over values is an interesting defense. It's hard to take anyone's criticism over minors being put in these positions while still consuming their content. I do have a problem with that, which is the point of my comment. 🤷
@@Anon-wq9te Issue with this statement is that I didn't got to Lolla to see NewJeans, they were just a byproduct. The money people spend on the Lolla tickets are spread throughout all artists, I actually went to see TXT, Kendrick Lamar, and RHCP. So I guess the 400,000 other people who went to Lolla this year, are immediately willing contributors to MHJ and Ador? No that logic is asinine. Also Boycotts don't exist to morally satisfy the participant, they purely exist to change something. When I and others participated in the Loona Boycott, we didn't do it exclusively to morally feel better about ourselves, we did it to get them the hell out of BBC. It's important to separate intent here, the 80k people watching NJ at Lolla don't all support MHJ, and the money they spend also doesn't reflect that. You CAN criticize the systems YOU are part of. That's literally the whole point of Hageum by Agust D, and I remember when I saw people screaming that he was a hypocrite online, it's like no he's not, you just didn't understand the point. If you don't want to take my criticism that's fine, I even called myself a hypocrite in a previous video on this very thing. But don't act like we aren't all contributing to minors debuting in kpop, even the groups that ARE of age that YOU support, the money YOU give them is falling into the pockets of YG, SM, JYP etc, and they use that to debut groups with minors in it. The excuse of the listener there is "well that's not my decision", and neither is it mine, even if I do listen to NJ.
@@Taejiu Except all 400,000 people did not go to see NewJeans set, nor do they have the knowledge you do of their situation; and even those with the knowledge of these controversies don't make long essay videos about why minors shouldn't be in k-pop while supporting minors in k-pop. Boycotts do exist to change things, but that's not their only reason for existence. Many people boycott things that will never go out of business, for example tourism to Hawaii- They boycott because they morally cannot support that. Boycotts don't always start as a majority, nor do they all work- but if you are personally against minors in k-pop I don't see why you're also the same person streaming their music. A friend of yours whose a RU-vidr decided to stop covering NewJeans entirely, but you're saying you can't? Im not saying I don't contribute to minors debuting in k-pop, but at least i'm not complaining and making long video essays about it while still consuming it. Also funny that no mention of the man who sent his idols off to meet R.Kelly whose involved in making a group as we speak in this entire video. 🤷
@@Anon-wq9teI guess you chose to not read my full comment? Each ticket YOU buy when you go to Lolla, doesn't matter what level, contributes to paying the other artists, therefore 400k people contributed to NJ making money at lolla. Whether it be through tickets, merch, etc. It's as simple as that. No if, ands, or buts. People who boycott for people not visiting Hawaii, do so.... to advocate for people not going to Hawaii? Did the meaning of a boycott get lost in translation? Boycotts exist for change, they aren't for personal gratitude, you obtain that satisfaction from the change occurring, it's why people still protest people visiting Hawaii, BECAUSE people still visit. If people stopped visiting Hawaii, the boycott would end. I am the same person making videos and streaming music, people aren't 1 dimensional! That's the beauty of life! The point of bringing a friend into this is, beyond petty. Somewhat embarrassing we have to rely on that kind of thing to prove a point. They have their stance, I have mine, we even discussed it and shared our views in private. They've never bashed me for it. All this point shows is that you have an objective in this discussion, and your willing to try to guilt trip me using my own friend's opinions? Scummy. We can criticize things we are apart of, so what I can't complain about capitalism because I live in a capitalist democratic country? That logic is beyond unreasonable. I HIGHLY encourage you to broaden your horizons when it comes to understanding others beliefs, or contributions, it would make the Kpop community a much less toxic place, as many never enter an argument to learn, they enter to prove a point, which you are trying to do. I used to do that as well, just look at one thing from only one POV, but that was childish.
You sound suspiciously defensive towards the pedophilic subtleties. Film has subtleties for a reason. When a person like min heejin has openly inserted themes with sexualisation of minors she's is targeting a certain market. Ask yourself FOR WHO IS THIS??
This is an unpopular opinion but age is a social construct. Being under 18 does not mean you are unwise and naive. And being over 25 does not mean that you are smart or strong. All the negative points the video listed do not just affect young idols, but it affects all idols. So, it is not our faults, or the companies faults for debuting young idols. There is no to little backlash for debuting at a young age in sport. Thus, it is the industry that is at fault here. It is the industry that needs to change in order to be safe for not just young idols but all idols. And the industry is actually everyone involved. Like if the companies teach them to understand negativity of the internet and how to better prepare and manage it, and the fans can all be more understanding and reasonable. Then the Kpop environment will be better for all. At the end of the day, if their guardians approved it, the laws allow it, and the idols themselves are having fun and enjoying what they are doing and being paid without being taken advantage of or having any physical or mental damage then what is the issue here really?
You dont know what a Social Construct is do you. Because the Human Body and Brain Chainges drastical in between 16 to 25 and after that its starts to decline
also - i've seen fans defend minors debuting by citing parental permission, as if showbiz parents aren't notoriously exploitative and as if jennette mccurdy didn't write an entire book about how she's glad her mother dieds
how many more idols need to talk about how detrimental debuting young was for them mentally, emotionally and physically for companies to accept they should wait until they're adults to debut
@celine9richardson though that is true the quality of their act ensures that they will be supported. Let's not also forget that the government could easily fix this problem.
adding to the issues of young idols debuting - we, as people who don't live on camera, get to make mistakes in our late teens and early twenties, learn from them and move on as better people. our mistakes, be it from our childhood or adulthood, are not picked apart, scrutinized or constantly brought up in conversations about us. we learn to not pick ourselves apart, we learn not everyone's opinion matters. kpop idols are trained on the complete opposite of the spectrum. they are trained to always be perfect, behave and look perfect, to never make any mistakes, especially on camera. they are told everyone's opinion matters, and their entire livelihoods depend on the amount of people supporting them. it's an insane amount of pressure to be under for anyone, let alone a child.
Yeah your teen years especially are where you say the dumbest shit and do stuff for attention, I'm a smarter person now at 20 but I would've been cancelled left and right if everything I said was on the internet 😭
At this point, the companies are fully aware that they can push the limits and get away with it, because the fans’ want to protect the groups also unintentionally extends to the managing teams behind them - it’s hard to criticize the teams without it appearing like an attack on the groups themselves. It seems like a deeply systemic issue at this point, and teams like ADOR behind Newjeans are taking it a step further and intentionally playing in to the controversy as a part of newjeans’ aesthetic and narrative development. I mean, OMG’s music video got a dedicated storyline that outright dismissed any claims about the ethics of putting the group in more mature concepts. I love newjeans, and I absolutely don’t blame the members themselves for any of this, but their global success is only adding to a dangerous precedent in the kpop industry - that despite the controversy that was a big part of their debut, they were able to move past it and see even greater success. It’s a paradox of wanting to see the idol industry changed in order to protect children, but not wanting to boycott as it wouldn’t be fair to the members themselves. I think the only way real change can come out of this is through the Korean government doubling down on these companies, and incentivizing them to NOT debut young idols. I don’t see how much can be done from our side as fans, because now these companies know that there’s a lot they can do without getting in trouble
The thing you have to realize is that in Korea, the view towards Kpop vastly differs from that of the international audience. Korea has always seen Kpop as music mainly catered towards teens and young people, so debuting idols around the age of their audience seems perfectly sensible. This is maybe why I see people are surprised when they realize that Kpop is not dominating the domestic music market, it is definitely dominating the export market of music but not domestic market. Kpop will always be seen as music for young people so there will always be (and always have been) young people debuting. The only thing that can be change is laws on contracts and working hours of these young idols which are being worked on.
@@Nhn1460I’ve been thinking the same thing. Kids want to see idols debut at their own age. I remember, for example, that when I read _Percy Jackson and the Lightning Thief_ at 8 years old and Annabeth said she ran away from home at 7, I said to my mom, “That’s young, but it’s not _that_ young.” Only as I grew up did I see how ridiculous it was for me to think that 7 years old wasn’t an insane age to be forced to be independent. Kids really do think they’re mature and have adult capabilities, and believe that everyone their age does, too. In fact, they _want_ to see kids be treated as adults in the k-pop industry because they probably aren’t treated as adults in their own lives.
@@sakurased101 yeah and now she works in SM and made a rule for not having minor kids debut. Look at aespa and riize line, the youngest are 18 and 19. She knows the damage and try to change it, at least from one company
@@Nhn1460 the government did make new rule about their working hours (last year or early this year I forgot) but I heard many agency against it 💀 istg the enemies here are the agency/company
I find it kinda odd how kpop fans are only realizing this now? Taemin was 14 when he debuted in Shinee. Hyuna was 14 when she debuted in the Wonder Girls. Both of them have suffer massive trauma as a result and were weirdly sexualized when they were underage. Many idols who debuted that young have gone on to regret debuting at that age. So why are people only acknowledging this now? If the argument is that the rise of social media has caused these younger idols to get more hate/publicity, then I don't think yall realize how brutal the industry and fans were during 2nd gen. Nonetheless, I agree. Debuting idols at such a young is dooming them to suffer trauma and mental health issues further down the road, and it shouldn't be as normalized as it is in Kpop.
2NE1’s Minzy also made her debut with the group at a young age (15) and has made numerous statements about her mental health struggles as a result from being a young idol. YG marketed her in such a strange, contradicting way: on one hand, she was designated as the “boyish” member, never permitted to grow her hair out in a more feminine style as to not ruin her tomboy image. But at the same time, she was also the member who was sexualized the most, even as a minor; their Can’t Nobody MV is evidence of that. A year into their debut and she was already baptized with the monikers “Ero-maknae” and “Ero-Minzy.” Because all of these aforementioned idols have been very vocal and transparent with their traumatic experiences as young idols, it’s even more disappointing to see that nothing in the entertainment industry has changed. Money truly makes their world go round and it’s incredibly sickening.
It’s mainly because back then you’d get a youngest group member in a group here or there debuting at that age while now it’s every group having multiple kids ranging from 13-16. It’s more harder to ignore and becoming the norm basically. But I agree this has always been a big problem in kpop (not to mention jpop and other countries too like Jesus) and it’s not like these idols grew up and didn’t talk about it like they make it very clear how dangerous and unhealthy it was for them but… somehow here we are. I remember chocolate love by fx coming out when Krystal and sulli were still like 14 and 15 and being shocked by how it just seemed strange then being so young and they got a even more mature concept then girls generation with the same song. Crazy.
Majority of K-pop fans were the same age to barely older than the younger 2nd gen idols like myself, I'm only 2 years younger than Minzy and I've been following 2ne1 since debut but now the problem is how MANY under 18's are debuting, before it was one or two per group if any, now its far more common to have entire groups of under 18s debuting
personally, i was 12 years old when i got into kpop, and therefore didn’t give the concept of whether it’s ethical for minors to debut much thought. but at 20, i’ve grown enough to see just how different my headspace was back then and how odd it is to throw a 13 year old into that kind of industry. and that kind of perspective is hard to have when you yourself are as young as the idols debuting. so i obviously can’t speak for everyone but i imagine that’s at least partly where the discrepancy comes from
also, is nobody going to mention loona? Half the group debuted when they were hella young. Heejin was 15 during vivid, Hyunjin was 15 during around you, Yeojin was 14 during kiss later, Choerry was 16 during oec, Lip was barely 18 during eclipse, Hyeju was 15/16 during egoist/debut, and even the older members were in their young 20s. Ik BoA, Taemin, HyunA, Eunchae, Yujin, Wonyoung and Hyein are mentioned a lot, but knowing how young loona was when they all debuted is so heart breaking when you add on all the shit bbc did. They were mistreating/mismanaging kids/young adults.
I'll never understand people who say it's okay to debut young idols just because they're talented and have a hard work ethic. Sure those are positives, but those things won't change if you wait to debut someone when they're 18 or older. In fact they'll probably get better. Especially since debuting minors as idols has been known to cause harm. On JYP's American survival show A2K right now, there's a 12 year old contestant named Kaylee. And sure, she's talented. But she's way too young. In a recent episode, during her vocal evaluation, Kaylee was given constructive criticism, to which she curled up in a ball on the floor and cried. Which is a completely reasonable response to have because she's twelve! But it was a moment in the show that worried me a lot because if she's this upset about constructive criticism, she's not mentally or emotionally mature enough to deal with the hate Kpop idols receive regularly. And no matter how talented or hard working she is, that's not going to change anytime soon. Unfortunately, it looks like she's probably going to debut anyway, which makes me worry for her well-being. Idols just shouldn't debut this young . They literally don't have the mental capacity or maturity to do so.
Ya the a2k thing is a really good example. I’m all for the idea of a2k but there is no reason for there to be a 12 y/o on the show. I can’t remember half the contestants names (since I’m not rlly following it too actively) but one of them thought that she couldn’t participate because she was to old. The cut off date that was mentioned was either 2006 or 2005 which means the max they were looking for was 18 since 05 turn 18 this yr. This was shot like a couple of months ago to a year ish ago to my knowledge making the oldest somebody could be to audition was 17 which is crazy.
Just remember it was not to long ago that for a good long while The Age Of Consent in South Korea was 13yrs old which would completely explain why the sexualizing of minors has been and is STILL a big mainstay in these kpop companies. It was only after 2017 when public backlash came over a 42yr old man being found not guilty of r@ping a 15yr on the grounds that "she had consented and was well past the age of consent" that the law was raised from 13yrs to 16yrs old age of consent. These kpop companies have been sexualizing minors for a long period of time now under the previous consent law which has not only brought a sizable amount of company fame and notoriety, but has also generated large amounts of $💰$ for these companies...It is not a very easy thing to all of a sudden stop doing what has been the Bread & Butter of these companies. Obviously a more aggressive approach has to be taken on the part of public fandoms of these various minor filled kpop groups to get companies to change their Predatory Behavior towards minor age idols
@@paradyne1T101 Fandoms will do nothing becouse they like young idols thats why companies use the same tactic all the time. And nobody is forcing this young idols to be idol they can choose to be somthing else. And to be honest everybody wants to earn shitt ton of money young and to retire young. In my opinion they need to protect this young idols more and not alweys close their eyes for all the bad behaviour towards minor idols. Like the fan that touched the New Jeans at fan sign.
"All young idols aren't stupid" certainly is true. Look at Soyeon. She was still in High School when she became a public figure, and was barely an adult before taking on (G)I-DLE's career basically on her own. There are some geniuses out there are really are cut out for it. That said, Soyeon isn't a typical example. Many are going in with pure dreams and energy and not thinking about anything other than being in a group. Just like in life, you're going to have more mature thinking younger people and childish. Going back to Soyeon though, even though she's the industries Queencard, when she's off stage and we get a rare chance to see her in her natural state, she pretty much acts like a shy child. By not being able to BE a child, she reverts back to that mentality when she's not working. People might think it's cute, but it might be an issue later on down the line for her. She'll be an adult who doesn't know how to be an adult, you know? Now I don't think she's got it nearly as bad as someone like Michael Jackson, but I think that's an issue people need to look out for in these idols. On camera they have to be a certain way, so there might be a line where they don't know who they are anymore. Young idols are spending their developing years pretending to be something for the public, and in the process might be losing their own identity.
on the topic of the internet's obsession with haerin, i've noticed a common pattern in groups with multiple underaged idols. people will be extra careful to not sexualize the absolute youngest member, but it's almost like as long as they're not the maknae, they're free game. this isn't always the case, but to me it feels like when someone isn't labeled as the "baby," even though they are still a child, they're seen as more on par with the older members. obviously there will still be sexualization of maknaes, niki is a good example of what feels like the youngest member being the most sexualized in the group. i've still definitely seen the pattern before, and it's not a recent occurrence either (take, for example, jimin being sexualized in no more dream despite him being one of the underaged members).
It's kind of insane that once an idol hits 23-29 they're considered in their "prime" LMAO when we have musicians in the west who have had careers spanning two, three, four decades. Ageism over there is very strange especially when you remember who is buying the albums. Sure some kids/teens have jobs and allowances to buy themselves things but adults are going to be your main demographic for majority of your career. They're showing up to fan meets, fan cafe's etc. I mean if you saw NJ fan meet a couple of days ago floating around on twitter there was nothing but grown men and maybe sprinklings of teens?? That was disappointing but unsurprising.
I think it’s interesting to say the least, like I saw those clips and I was like “ew that’s a lot of grown men” but over here there was a demographic of all sorts of people who like NJ, maybe it’s a cultural thing? Not sure.
my theory is that min heejin makes things gray on purpose. like the cool w you one: she's obv not going to have minors watch a sx scene but she's going to have them watch a scene that's vague in its meaning, and could have slightly sxual undertones. for eta: she's not going to actually have any nods to terrorism in the music video or the song, but the names were on purpose. idc. it's way too much of a coincidence. just eva? maybe common enough. but eva and mikel and maira? yeah that's on purpose. esp with the spelling of mikel. there's no way they just chose 3 names that all happen to be linked to the terrorist organization. for cookie: yeah we're going to have sxually suggestive lyrics but we'll cover it up and say it's about baking cookies so people will brush it off. every single time, it's always fishy but not enough to get huge amounts of backlash. min heejin knows exactly what she's doing and she's doing it to stir up discussion around the group. she enjoys the dichotomy between youthful minors and adult themes. she's a creep and i can't stand anyone who defends her. newjeans can sell fine without all this fucking controversy surrounding them.
Speaking of Loona and BBC, putting choerry (a 16 year old) in OEC was such a weird decision. OEC's songs like uncover and sweet crazy love revolve around themes of both romantic and sexual intimacy. Pair that up with the styling they were given and the choreographies to the songs and it was too much of a glaring issue to have been glossed over the way it did. I remember watching a colour coded lyric video for uncover and one of the most liked comments on there was how it was hard to find songs that portray sex so softly the way that song did. While that might have been true, it seemed as if people didn't care that a 16 year old and a girl who just barely turned 18 (Kim Lip) were the ones SINGING the song. Kim Lip's Eclipse MV is also generally regarded as a pretty aesthetic MV. But once again she was 17 like 2 months ago before the release & possibly even younger during the filming of it (not that immediately turning 18 should give anyone a free pass to sexualise teenagers but you get the point). The way the MV was shot to highlight her body and the sexual choreography (which she was even given male partners to dance with) was so, so disturbing. Hyeju's Egoist MV has similar weird close up shots of her body, styling choices & choreography moments that were imo far too sensual for a then 16 year old. I do feel like that sometimes orbits just didn't care much for a proper conversation to happen because Yeojin, the maknae of the group, made her debut with "Kiss later" a cute bubblegum song that was about consent.
Actually I've been a fan of Loona since debut but I never knew of their ages only Yoejin because they talked about it. For me personally I just never looked up their ages and just assumed they were atleast 19 and up. That's crazy. I never knew. I wish fans and companies would normalize 20yrs debuting. I believe the age limit should be 19
And having YeoJin walk off while everyone else is doing seductive moves in Fav0rite doesn't change the fact that plenty of the other girls were under 18 too???
KimLip was 17? 😧 I didn't know that... I'm not that big of a fan but I knew the criticism of Choerry and Hyeju doing Uncover or Egoist at 16 and it never sat right with me. Hate that Eclipse is the same :( BBC just sucks. Sad that most company are the exact same
@@bryncheeze8970 I remember they literally changed the leg opening part during the second verse for live stages because the original choreo was in skirts and was inappropriate. BBC was a fking mess
I agree with all your points. But I do think we can do something about it. It’s just the fact that people don’t want to because it’s their favorite group or they don’t care. The reason why boycotts when they are needed don’t work is because like you said, we are divided. But if everyone would come together like what Korean and International Orbits and even some listeners did for Loona, some things could change.
@@anarecinos1590 Boycotting does work if done the right dedicated way... The group LOONA and their "Orbits" fanbase have proven targeted organized boycotting can be a game changer!
@@paradyne1T101 Well it worked because Chu herself didnt liked her company and sued them. Once the idol voice their concern ... it is easy. But NewJeans member seems to be doing okay with their company so ...
Fans need to be changed too, especially regarding girl groups. Once the idol's age goes over 25~26, the fans start to mumble 'She might be getting too old to be an idol’. This kind of attitude needs to be changed.
Its so weird to me since I'm 16 and ive been a kpop fan for years, and I'm finally realizing how messed up debuting minors is. When i was a tween I didn't notice how problematic the industry was. Back then everyone seemed way older than me, and I genuinely thought ice cream (bp) and ice cream cake (rv) were about ice cream 💀 Now I'm less naive, and I have a lifetime of issues from my childhood in the ballet industry and I would never want any other kid to be in that industry, much less the kpop industry. Yet I feel so conflicted because I love the music and I love the aesthetics, but after reading the lyrics to fever, listening to bite me, and realizing Niki was STILL a minor i cant help but feel weird. I'm only a year younger than him and I would feel uncomfortable as heck. At the end of the day I would love to see more groups of ADULTS debuting, and not fresh 18 year olds, but people in their 20s and older, as they're all still gorgeous, and arguably have more time to hone their skills. Edit: one more thing I've learned from the dance industry is that the younger you are, the more control people have over you. Younger idols aren't dumb, but they are more likely to sign their life away, more likely to take horrible diet advice, more likely to not know their values and stick up for themselves. Children and young adults are more likely to be molded and manipulated unlike older adults who have a stronger sense of their value.
I didn't realize Ni-ki was underage when that song was made. I'm a casual listener of Enhypen, but now that I know, I don't think I can listen to it anymore. That just makes me too uncomfortable as an adult. Thanks for the education and your perspective on the dance industry
As someone who is Spanish I promise you “Mikel” is not a common name, that’s bs. It’s the basque version of Miguel, like…. Spanish 100%. The whole thing was pretty weird but they were a lot of coincidences either way, even though the Mv did not contain more to fuel the whole thing, thankfully. However I feel like if someone made a comeback with references to the 9/11 the whole thing would have been pretty different
The runext underrage trainees stans need to see this. They're always bringing up the fact that young idols debuted and that its okay if their 14 years old trainee debut. They are leading their fav to something very very unhealthy by voting them and THEY WONT understand how bad it can be.
The horror of how these young idols are being treated by fans have never been clearer with survival shows. Viewers of the shows are so brutal and unsympathetic. A 16 year old contestant will mess up or saying something regrettable once on camera, and fans just tear them apart for it. The lack of empathy for these kids in high pressure situations is just not there, and it's terrible. Bahiyyih was 17 years old on GP999 and people compared her face to that of a horse, called her untalented, harassed her family, etc. It makes me sad that people will never learn.
I feel like older people should be able to debut its sad that most of the older people who are like in their 20s and 30s have no chance to make it. But we allow 14 year olds??? It just doesn't make sense. I'm scared for kpops future because this isnt right and I think this should be illegal in Korea. I know alot of teenagers dream of being famous like NewJeans but we arent fully developed and we might not understand and process some of the things these companies do. It's very dangerous.
I also don't want people to automatically feel terrible for listening to groups like IVE, LSF, NewJeans, Billlie etc. You aren't the ones making the decisions, I see too many people bully others into not listening to music they want to, and hold this morality complex over people. That is honestly, petty to me, listen to what you want, and if you really want to make change than don't buy albums or stream, call for a boycott etc.
You must be in high school to have made a video about this.. Since day 1, minors have been debuting... This is nowhere near a brand new issue in Korea, hasn't been and won't ever be..
@@mrbp3351 just because an issue has been ongoing for years, doesn’t make it acceptable ? why would we say it’s okay just because it’s been going on for such a long time .
@@eangalpeople who are privileged think like that. "Something bad is happening to someone miles away and it's been going on forever but eh it's not me so they should just get used to it"
It’s scary honestly, especially with the ED side of things. These kids will grow up with such unhealthy views towards food and body image and cause serious health problems! Look at yeojin from loona, she grown up dieting her whole life while in the industry and now she’s at a very low weight and has spoken out about recovering and her new company makes sure she actually eats, young adults shouldnt of deal with that
I find it annoying when some kpop fans will say that we shouldn't have a problem with minors in kpop bc "they figured out their dream and want to pursue it" or "they worked hard for this and their parents approved" No matter how much a 14 year old wants to be an idol and how hard they work, putting them in the spotlight and subject to ridicule and sexualization is not ok. Some fans get so pissed off when their favs age is mentioned and they start saying that we're just jealous or bullying a child. It's hard for many to understand that children do not know enough about the industry and the world to make the decision to become an idol, let alone become one at all.
What sucks is that cool for you was such a cool and innovative music video that would simply be just a masterpiece. The problem comes in with the age aspect. It hit especially hard when it came to their mv reaction where you can see their immaturity towards ceartain scenes.
I agree. Believe when I say people wouldn’t have had an issue with the music video at all, except for the fact that 1. They are still minors in the group and 2. It’s the fact the girls didn’t choose this concept by themselves so it’s kind of weird.
It is great that this topic is being talked about specially with the rise in popularity of New Jeans. I think the parents and government have the biggest roles to play in order to regulate or stop having minors in kpop groups. If this practice of letting minors debut in kpop groups can't be stopped completely, the parents and government should demand or create laws to protect the kids. Protection from the agencies, from toxic fans, and media. In the case of New Jeans, I felt that some of their songs like Cookie and the video for Cool with You are not age appropriate. It is unfortunate but at the same time expected because of Min Hee Jin. As long as she has control over New Jeans, we are all captives.
There’s actually more reasons why debuting minors is problematic/counterproductive to me. I meant to make a video about this but never did: 1.) it’s actively taking away opportunities from adults - it’s wild that recently whenever I see open audition announcements the age limit is exclusive and denying people opportunities and dreams because they’re considered “too old” in the BEGINNING of their 20s?? is pure ageism and unfair. This phenomenon is creating bias and ageist perceptions of young adults. For example kpop Stan’s are now saying that 20 is too old of an age to debut or they are making fun of adult idols and calling them “hags” even when these idols are only in their mid 20s to early 30s?? Like hello?? 2.) decline in quality in performances and music - everyone thinks the opposite but with a lot of 4th gen groups refusing to sing live or in general not having much singing experience I see debuting minors as problematic. A child isn’t going to have stellar vocal ability. Some may have good vocal ability (like the members of new jeans) but it doesn’t apply to all. If kpop Stans are going to uphold this standard of idols having to be stable with vocals live, have amazing stage presence and knowing how to sing in general? It’s very contradicting to have a child represent that especially since these children are still in stages of their lives where they are growing and learning. With debuting minors comes companies having to accommodate the music quality for a younger audience and a younger singer. 3.) unhealthy parasocial behaviors that can borderline become predatory - you touched on this in your video but I do think it’s extremely inappropriate to be debuting minors and exposing them to an audience of people that don’t treat them as such. The best example is what you’ve mentioned with the Haerin situation. We don’t know the ages of social media users. Anyone can lie about anything. It’s incredibly harmful that the general population is commenting on the appearance, personality, body shaming etc. CHILDREN. I don’t care if these tiktok users meant well complimenting Haerin. It’s very odd how comfortable people are getting with how they are speaking on these young idols. 4.) limited audience enjoyment and demographic - obviously companies debuting minors isn’t only done for shock value and attention but they want to appeal to the younger generation. I feel that this is not smart. If the kpop industry wants long term global success then we shouldn’t be mass producing groups with tween/kid like aesthetics or sounds. I know groups like NEWJEANS have a broad audience but groups after them trying to mimic the same formula are bound to fail and I know that future groups planned to debut minors are going to literally copy this formula and it will fail because nobody wants to hear cocomelon bubble gum pop repetitively not to mention in order to avoid exploiting said minors in explicit ways. Concepts and music quality will be limited since obviously children can’t participate in certain genres, sounds and concepts. Overall yes i understand that this discussion can get circular and seen as “pointless” because there’s nothing any of us can inherently do anything about it BUT productive discussions don’t have to start with action, it’s just a discussion and I do feel like this new phenomenon of mass producing groups with a bunch of members that are minors is a problem as well as companies holding auditions and blatantly excluding potential talented individuals because they’re in their 20s is problematic. The kpop industry will notice soon that revenue and creativity will become super limited because of this poor marketing scheme. Like you mentioned in the video many groups debut every year and there’s no guarantee they will all be successful so it’s pretty much a bad faith argument to continue to use the “well new jeans did it” point. Yes new jeans did it but their ceo is always in controversy and they wouldn’t be successful without a huge label to back them up. I’m telling you guys. This huge obsession with debuting minors will not work in the long run for reasons above. It will get boring and it’s gonna limit netizens desire to enjoy and consume kpop in the ways we have all these years. This is an extra point but here’s an example I vividly remember that might make people mad: I remember seeing a tiktok well actually multiple where people are claiming that hyein from new jeans is being isolated from the group or in general k netizens are awkward torwards her/don’t support her. Someone posted a tiktok of themselves at a target and the only collection of albums left on the shelf were albums with Hyein on the cover. This is unfortunate that this happened but again. This is a side affect of the industry trying to push minors into the scene. It’s clear Hyein isn’t left out of the group BUT clearly with the target situation people didn’t want to buy her albums because she is a CHILD and this applies to the consumption aspect. A lot of fans will refuse to buy certain groups merch or anything of the sort for this reason lol. Nobody from my understanding has anything against any of the new jeans members but. Future groups the same issue may arise. Lack of comfort between fans can drive a wedge into how they enjoy these groups and once this comfort is taken away? A lot of revenue will be too but hey, this is only a lesson the industry will be taught and these are all my points. I’m just saying cause a lot of times when we have this discussion yALL act dense or call us bitter when we’re just stating facts. No individual under the age of 17 TURNING 18 should be an idol in a kpop group. The standard for scouting in auditions should be the same but the age limit should be raised to 25. Period. I said what I said.
Also I mentioned that the standards in scouting can be the same because logically it makes sense to want a younger person as a trainee BUT in terms of plans to debut? Again, nobody under the age of 17 turning 18 should be anticipated to debut in a group.
I agree with most of these except for 2, I think performance issues are mainly because of the climate and expectations with lipsyncing rather than young idols.
Exactly!! Recently bighit launched a global audition for their upcoming boygroup and guess what the age limit was? Anybody born 2005 or before were not allowed to auditon. Or the fact that when newjeans debuted every single person was a minor except for one member? And the only defense kpop fans have is that "they worked hard they deserve to debut, or the company saw potential in them".. Like so can a trainee thats over the age of 18 so why arent people that age being debuted??
@@Taejiu true I get that. I was mainly touching on how the skill expectation people have can be unrealistic when we are talking about minors that aren’t entirely fully trained in vocals (or even dancing) once they are rushed to debut
@@user-mt1th4wu8x for real!! Like people and even companies have this odd vendetta against anyone over the age of 18. An individual in their late teens and early 20s is not that old I mean hello?? We all see Sakura in Le sserafim and she fits perfectly in the group as a 25 year old. I’ve never seen her lack in dancing or dedication to the group. Even with older idols ppl compliment them but it’s weird how backhanded they are “woah Jennie looks so good even though she’s 28!!” Girl what is a 28 year old supposed to look like?? it’s so corny and unrealistic how theatrical people view adults. An adult is JUST as capable of star power as any minor auditioning for a company is. It won’t hurt the kpop industry to have a new all boy or all girl group in their 20s like jeez.
I'm glad you brought up LOONA because Yeojin, their maknae, debuted at 14, and has since talked about her struggles with food (and of course with the other issues brought up in the lawsuit) and it's atrocious. A lot of times a lot of adult kpop fans will bring up the fact that Taemin debuted at 13/14 as if that's excusable... like no, he shouldn't have debuted at 14 either!! I literally don't understand what the problem would be to wait until these idols are at least 18 to debut them. When you make them debut younger, they're (a lot of times) forced to drop out of school and then become entirely dependent on the company they're in. It's terrible
Finally someone talking about how creepy min heejin is. I hate how people don't care just because she's a woman, and they think women can't be predators when that's so false. It's so stupid the double standard since if she were a man, I'm 100% sure she'd be "canceled" by now.
@@caroline1759 That’s fair. But YG literally groomed a 13 year old girl and the sabotaged her career so she’d marry him. Hardly anybody talks about that.
@@lornam1142 agree YG is a total creep. Can’t stand him, but I love the groups in his company like 2NE1 and BLACKPINK. He treated both those groups horribly.
I believe most maknaes( because they debuted so young) went through a wild phase at some point but company pay media outlets not to disclose that. This has been a problem since 1st and despite popular believe idols debuting super has been a massive problem in second gen as much as it is a problem in the fourth and I personally find it difficult to believe that idols didn’t have a wild phase specially the socialite and other parts of their jobs
You can't complain about kpop companies debuting young idols then go and listen to songs sung by those minor idols, watch stages performed by those minor idols, comsume content released by those minor idols n buy albums that those minor idols worked it. It's like complaing about how plastic is destroying the earth only to go to Starbucks 3 times a day. Every time a group with minors gets popular, it basically is a message to industry that they r accepted. Wasn't there a show called My Teenage idol or something that debuted a grp? There were so many yt channels making videos about watching such shows n then complain about how young they r. When Ive n Newjeans debuted every single kpop channel made video about how wrong it of them to debut 14 yr old, n 2 days later those same yt chanmels were making album review videos then u wonder why these companies debut young idols. I am not hating on minor idols. I also don't want them to be unsuccessful. They r young and I hope they can find success in whatever path they take. But it is a reality that actions speaks louder than words. Ppl can write essays about how minors shouldn't debut all they want but if they go n support them then this cycle will never end. It is what it is. Also my intention is not to make anyone feel bad about listening to Ive, NJ or any other grps. They have already debuted n their songs r good. It's just a complicated situation.
In my case I like new jeans music and they seem very nice girls but I don't feel comfortable stanning them bc of Min heejin. First, cookie lyrics being questionable, then she being a pedophile and inviting one of the members to her house while she has weird posters on it, and recently with the eta controvery (my family is from this region of spain). Since this last comeback I decided to boycott them (similar to loona's fans with bbc) by not streaming or buying anything official bc I don't want to give that woman any money
The main problem of debuting idols younger and younger each time, is that being an idol means that the public, your fans, have to see as a perfect person and even more, like à surhumain. And we know already as much difficult it is keep an image like for a grown and mature adult who probably worked on it for decades, so haw can we expect children or young adults to be able do the same thing and do it better than the previous generation… ?? Also, there is a contradiction in all of this, cause being a teenager is literally the opposite of being like perfect, I mean it’s the age when hormones are messing with your body and your mind, it’s when you loose your innocence and begin to be self conscious and aware of the others, sex arrives in your life or in your head at least, your body is growing and changing everyday so to be able to stick to a diet is even more difficult and can is more dangerous because it affects your growth, etc, etc… in conclusion other than to make money and more money, debuting young teenagers is really fxxxed up ! I really hope that the Korean leaders will do something about, because if they don’t it will never stop, and now the new idols are 13 y.o… what will it be in 10-15 years ??? True babies will go on stage ? 💀 please stop it’s already weird and attracting predators…
There is no concrete solution to this, like you said the companies have too much power and these kids have a dream. The only real solution is to protect the kids by bringing attention to this. Until a government entity steps in to regulate idol debuts(which I'm shocked hasnt really occurred yet) or a union starts that's the best the community can really do.
28:03 I agree, nudity is not inherently sexual, however, I simply think that as they are minors, a better plot and aesthetical choices could have been made with that in mind.
I don't believe in putting collective responsibility on individuals' shoulders, but the conclusion that our actions don't matter in the grand scheme of things is shallow indifference. You want to do what you like? Fine. I don't listen to newjeans despite loving OMG and Ditto to bits: I'm not better than anyone else for this but I don't do things I find morally wrong, just as I don't litter on the streets, I recycle my trash and avoid fast fashion. Will my waste sorting save the planet from pollution while multinationals and national politics allow its destruction? Obviously not, but I want to have faith in the fact that social change is possible. It's the reason why we as women can vote and slavery is not allowed. If you prefer to think nothing is gonna change though, you're allowed to; just don't pretend to be concerned.
While I see what your saying, I also think the comparison's you draw about a sentence or two in are either poorly worded or just off. When you say you like the music but don't stream it because it morally appeases you. Then compare that to littering and recycling. That would mean you actively like not recycling, and littering, but you don't do it because it morally appeases you in the same way. Do you like littering just like how you love OMG? I think I get your message, I just don't think it's worded well. Also comparing the underage idol crisis in Kpop to slavery or women's rights. Instead of making the argument that one is morally superior to the other, I'll simply point out that two situations effect (and to an extent still effect today) VASTLY more people than this topic. Not that this topic doesn't, but the comparison is a slight false comparison.
@@AglajaEos I said I get your point, nor am I trying to argue, having a simple conversation isn't an argument. I'm saying you are drawing comparisons that don't weight equally. You slipped up when drawing the comparison between NJ and other moral issues, that's not me "pretending not to see the point" that's just you not communicating it properly. But yes, I see what you are saying and to some extent I agree.
@@Taejiu You get my point but here you are building a strawman. Ignoring the fact that I find your scholarly tone quite out of place, figurate speech doesn’t require equal weight in its imagines. What if I get physical pleasure from littering? That’s not the point. The point is I don’t do things I find unethical. Do you want different examples in order to elaborate more fallacies? I don’t eat avocado because it comes from the other side of the world and I don’t condone intensive monocultures. I try not to indulge in overconsumption as much as possible. As I already said, I avoid fast fashion the same way you avoided that point because it didn’t serve your misconstruction. Most of all, the conclusion you chose to ignore is about your claim that you sitting and streaming is not going to change anything. People contributing to things they think are bad but whatever, because their guacamole or their Zara t-shirt or their cigarette butt are not going to change anything, are the reason bad things can’t change. Do you enjoy those things and don’t want to make an active effort, sacrifice a small pleasure because it matters to you? It’s fine. But then, why would you post a 40 mins video saying how exploding children is bad? This is incoherent and I honestly find it hypocritical and self-indulgent.
@@AglajaEosI'm not building a strawman, you just communicated your point poorly. I don't get what my scholarly tone impacts here, if anything I am trying to diffuse this by not making it "an argument" as you claim. My tone does not indicate that I am smarter than you, nor is that what I'm trying to communicate, this is how I talk, if you have a problem, leave, no one is keeping you here. The point is that by your logic YOU presented in the discussion, you DO derive physical pleasure from littering the same that you enjoy OMG or Ditto, you framed your point poorly, and still are. By YOUR logic you presented, you enjoy littering just like you enjoy OMG, that's not me mis constructing, that's literally just how you presented the conversation, not my fault you communicated it that way. It is true that my one stream in the grand scheme of things can make a difference, and I agree. However I am not the one who makes decisions, I am not MHJ, I am not the CEO of JYP. The only way things will change is if either the Government finally does something about it, or we rally the millions of fans together to enact change, which in all honesty, is damn near impossible with the social climate of Kpop. The point may come off as Nihilistic, but it's realistic. I don't purchase NJ albums because I know that's where the money comes from, not my streams. If you want to call me a hypocrite fine, but I'll communicate this to you that I did the other calling me so: Just because you are an active participant in the machine does not mean you can't criticize said machine. Example, capitalism, You, and me, participate everyday in capitalism, yet we can both criticize it can't we? Every waking minute you listen to a kpop song, watch an MV, you are directly contributing to things such as CA, sexualization of idols, materialization of idols etc. Why? Because you are putting money in their pockets, sure I stream Ditto, but that doesn't mean I can't contribute to the conversation, that doesn't mean I make the choices to debut young idols, if I had the choice everyone in NJ would be over the age of 18, but guess what? I don't make those choices. Just like how I can't change capitalism. Agust D communicated this best in his song Haguem, you can be apart of the problem and still criticize the problem, as Kpop fans we are ALL apart of the problem, you stream Twice? ITZY? Blackpink? You are putting money into YG and JYP's pockets and directly contributing to those companies debuting minors. Even if you don't have the choice, neither do I. That's the problem with calling people hypocrites, because in all reality those same people are hypocrites themselves. Hopefully this doesn't come off as hostile, just trying to communicate my point. This video isn't self-indulgent, if anything it's the opposite.
I feel that for a video about the dangers of minors debuting in kpop, it was needed a mention of talk about Girl Crush, yes, they so small, so nugu, hard for people to know or care, but important to care, since Girl Crush concept is literally to be sexy, and not on a mainstream kpop way, but on a "the skirt is so short you can see their underwear and they want nothing under since kind of the idea is that they are showing their underwear" or removing their clothes to dance in underwear, so the fact that a group like that was about to debut a minor and later said "no, she is a practice member, she will debut next year when she is 18" is not ok, and a proper example of the risk of debuting minors
I'm in my mid twenties and to this day, I still have never streamed/listened to nwjns or watched their MVs (at least not willingly). I've seen many people around me (who are around my age) who were initially uncomfortable abt the group (even some to go as far as calling for a boycott), suddenly turn around and start streaming their music. And if it stopped at just listening to the music I wouldn't mind as much, but it very rarely ever stops there. They listen to the music, then want to stream the MVs, then watch their live stages, and then watch every single piece of variety content they can find and end up getting attached to these extremely young girls, whether they want to admit it or not. And this is not just a nwjns thing either. If any group of kids has music that is "good enough" (I feel like we're about to see this happen all over again with Babymonster), this cycle will continue from now until the end of time no matter how young these idols are and what concepts they are given because kpop fans don't even have the backbone to at least download the music to listen to without giving these companies a dime. "I don't like minors in kpop and want this trend to end." But you're streaming the music? Buying their albums?? Going out of your way to see them in concert??? Maybe I'm being a hard ass but I dont know. It's weird. Shit's very weird.
Also people always try making excuses for themselves... "I listen to the music because it's good but I wouldn't buy an album" "My bias is a 15 year old but I'm being normal about it" "I don't support the decision to debut them so young but it's happened anyway so let's support them and maybe this time it will be different and they will be treated fairly "
As a cosmetic and surgical dermatologist who works closely with some of the best plastic surgeons in the world, one thing that breaks my heart is seeing 12 - 15 year olds training or already debuting with invasive cosmetic surgery (and noninvasive procedures as well). I think fans forget that even before debuting, the preparations for debut (particularly the visual ones) like dieting and surgery will already impact these kids for the rest of their lives both mentally and physically. And someone who is debuting at 14 is being exposed to this or put under the knife as early as 12. It's been said a million times but K-Pop idols aren't just singers following a dream. They have a ton of expectations from how they look to how they act placed on their shoulders before they are even old enough to construct a singular identity for themselves, which can lead to disassociation, depression, and much more later in life:
whenever i see posts about minors, I remember kim samuel. he's too young to debut with seventeen. Debuted young with 1Punch. Finalist at 15 on Produce 101 season 2... didn't make it to the final cut. In the same year, made his solo debut. You could really tell that by a young age, he's eager. He is 21 now, haven't released music since the lawsuit. I do believe there's a time for everything.
I remember there was a clip of Itzy laughing at an award show (during the acceptance speech) and people were mad at them on Reddit calling them unprofessional, and immature and even saying that Yeji is a bad leader and other mean stuff, they were all pretty young girls (19 to 15 year old) and they revived backlash for acting their age, now that idols are mostly minors they revive so much backlash for nothing the biggest example are yuna and wonyoung being called pick me for no reason even leeso got hate for crying at an award show, for me debuting idols at you age is setting them for hate…and the consequences are scary, chaeryeong said that she would hit herself because of the mean comment on her appearance, even her mom had to step in. Now that K-pop is becoming mainstream I can’t imagine all the horrific comments that the young idols receive every day. I think the only solution is to not début minors, in any way.
"its really hard not to listen to some of these groups" lmao is it? will you starve if you don't listen to their music? i get your points in the video but saying its hard not to listen to them just sounds ridiculous.
There are currently over 50+ active groups (10 being very popular) that have at least 1 minor (I’m lowballing it). I imagine you also listen to groups that have minors, in modern Kpop, it is very hard to find a new group with a refreshing sound that doesn’t have minors. This may come off as mean and I don't intend it in that way, but people who hit me with the "is it really that hard to find a group without a minor in it", don't understand how many minors there actually are in the industry.
debuting minors is & has never been okay. that's why im so frustrated at #that fandom for excusing it & treating the ceo like the messiah of creative direction
Also, the producer of shows like Produce 101 admitted to the show being like soft p**n for male audiences so anyone trying to say that minors aren't gonna be seen in that way are completely wrong. Personally i boycott groups with members who debuted
Only grown men? be for fucking real. There's COUNTLESS of videos with women AND children around newjeans. Ya'll just looooove to ignore that because it doesn't fit ur narrative.
I said this in one of your previous videos as well. Companies feed off our thirst for escapism. We as humans experience stress and grapple at anything that can make us forget about our issues even for a second. We just want the product and we don't care what had to happen for this very product to reach us, because to us, our issues are bigger. Which is why it's so easy to look past problematic situations. After a certain amount of time, ppl stop talking and everything is normal again. It's my hunch that babymonster will be Nwjn's direct competitor. Yg will market them with everything they got. The man literally said he expects global success from them and the members are talented enough to pull it off. They were made to be the next bp, similarly how bp were made to be the next 2ne1. And just like Nwjns, ppl will make noise at first because 6 of them are kids but then they'll accept them. Just like they accepted everything else. And like you said, the cycle continues.
as someone on the younger side of kpop fans as i was born in 2008 (14) and have been a stan for roughly 3 years, i've never thought much about minor idols because they've always still been older than me averaging at maybe 15-17. but, now that idols younger than me are debuting i'm starting to realize how weird and scary it is considering in the states i'm LEGALLY not allowed to work because i'm too young and there's kids years younger than me debuting in this dangerous industry.
My take on the whole new jeans thing (i stopped listening to them after the release of cookie, but listen to the songs illegal at release): for me the whole ETA situation seems to be planned controversial marketing. Because you cannot tell me shooting your mv on the iberian peninsula, take typical basque names (and also names connect to ETA) and name the song ETA is supposed to be a coincidence. With the Cool With You mv i didn't see so much of the issue with the nudity. Maybe bc i grew up in a culture were this is somewhat normal (we also have public nude bathing establishments togheter with children). I was rather weirded out bc of what she did to a sleeping man and then the girls watching. That's crossing peronal boundaries but i don't if you can call it assault since she is invisible? But i am not sure about it. So for the whole boycott thing: I think only a small portion of the people criticizing/call for boycotting nwjns are promoting them the next week and it's mostly different people. Or they are young people that are influenced in their opinion rather easily. I think people don't talk about it that much anymore bc everybody shared their opinion and we all know it'll probably don't change anything. Especially how? Most of these things are not illegal and more for scandalous marketing to keep people talking. You can call her out and boycott but there isn't really more that you can do. There is high possibility that min heejin will go to far with the marketing anyway in the future and will be canceled for good. And even though i am just one little person who brings them approximately 2 $ i will still not stream their music. Somebody has to start. If everybody thinks that they have a small impact and bc of that not act on it, nothing is going to change. Every single one is important. It's the same in democracy: somebody starts and maybe it will take a while but ball is rolling I don't want to tell others what to do. You can listen to New Jeans and i won't cancel you for it. I just can't justify it to myself. (Probably going to edit grammar stuff)
The ETA situation was made by Kpop stans. That MV was commissioned by Apple, why would a director or CEO purposely associate a controversial separatist group to a project funded by a multi trillion dollar business. They could’ve easily gotten sued for every penny they put into the project if it were actually true. This is a statement from Shin WooSeok the director and creator of the ETA MV “So the name of the male protagonist of 'ETA' was taken from the current director Mikel Arteta. But after the teaser of 'ETA' went out, things started to go back strange. There was a Basque separatist militant group called ETA in Spain and the head was named Mikel. I didn't even know such a group existed, but there was all kinds of speculation about the content of the music video among overseas fans, which involatedly caused a nuisance. Arsenal is not helpful in my life. (*He is... I'm a longtime fan of Arsenal”
I think it was a coincidence bc I never even heard of this terrorist group like at all I just think people are trying their damnest to cancel but instead it jsut propels them to more fame and it’s no wonder the controversy was drowned out I’m not on Twitter anyways and anything there is most echo chamber posts
I feel the reason minors debut so much is because people show much attention to groups with minors,minors probably wouldn’t debut as much if y’all actually boycotted the group instead of just complaining about the members being so young then continuing to support them by streaming their music and buying albums
babymonster about to debut but yall eating their content up. fanaccs/stanning w no music out is very kpop stan behavior. debuting minors isn't ok but then yall go support them at the same time. make it make sense. like can we stop BM debut? no. lets say hypothetically even if we did. will tht be good for those gurls or they gonna be ok w it ? no. whole point is you cant put period to any of this until yall just stop consuming or the company have rules of debuting only 18+ idols before tht just let em be trainees.
The people who are against minors in K-pop aren't the same ones who are supporting baby monster, they're the ones boycotting, refusing to stan or support them, and are calling out the people who are supporting them. Mixing two groups of people together isn't an argument
And yes we can stop them from debuting by boycotting the company, they're a company they're there to make money. And stopping children from going into an exploitative, dangerous industry, being thrown into the spotlight and have heir entire lives changed, which they are physically not able to fully understand the affects of yet and literally every idol and child star has come out and said affected them badly, kids shouldn't debut and some even kill themselves would obviously help the girls, use your brain 😂
@@Can_think_of_a_name i have witnessed ppl who criticized minors debuting then go listen to their music/support em. kpop community and the fake activism needs to be studied. i aint mixing two diff grp of ppl BUT thats how kpop stans move.
@@nancysharma2096 All this argument does is dismiss the genuine concerns and makes he people who have them sound like untrustworthy, hypocrites who don't know or care what they're talking about. And you can be against minors in K-pop but still listen to the music not on their unofficial platforms and within financially supporting them and you can be against minors in K-pop but still defend said minors from hate and stuff
With Cool With You, I think it's important to note that Cupid and Psyche definitely had a sexual relationship in Ancient Greek mythology, and the painting in the MV implies they sleep naked in the same bed. That subtext really colours how that MV looks to me. And I don't think I'm that biased, I am kind boycotting New Jeans, but I was defending the ETA teaser.
I think we should also stop giving people passes on sexualizing underage kpop idols just because they are also underage. And I'm not talking about having crushes on them, I mean making weird moan compilations or using sexually charged language towards them.
I am 15 years old. I'm the same age as Hyein and it's so scary, things like this have happened before. 17-year-old Joy debuted in Red Velvet Hyuna wonder girls also debuted, most twice members debuted at 17 and 16 from bts Jungkook and it's really creepy. Personally, I do not want my own body to be governed by such pedophile perceptions. I'm sure most idols don't want that. But the industry has always been like this. Companies only look at their own money because what they do is worth a fortune to them. Currently, the industry also draws our attention because there are many underage idols. I have been following kpop since 2017 I was 9 years old when I started then I always wanted to be like them naturally I was young. When we look at the living conditions now, they have to hide even their own personalities, they have to go on very heavy diets. Worse still, this leads to the fact that their bodies are not fully developed. It leads to depression. That's why my opinion changed with 1 year, I'm lucky. Indeed, this sector has begun to deteriorate, I wish we would raise our voices while these steps are being taken. There is only one chance of turning companies out of business and that is not making them money like this.
I wanna know if anyone else feels this way. To me, debuting young adults isn't good enough for me. Like idols still would've gone through the trainee process as a minor which I feel like can still be harmful. I'd love to see idols debut at like 25+(I'm saying that companies shouldn't be praised for debuting all 18+ members) . Also, when talking about minors we often list the multitude of issues that can affect them- those issues don't disappear just because they're of age, so it's important to highlight these issues and speak on them even in reference to adult idols as well. I hope that made sense and if I need to elaborate something I will gladly do so because I feel like I just rambled a little lol
The only times I've seen good change happen in this industry was after horrible events. Example one, the Goo Hara Act, only happened after her passing, which showcased how her mother only used her and her brother for money. Example two, Omega X, could only free themselves from their company and shed light on the industry after everyone learned of the abuse they endured. Example three, Loona could only leave their slave contracts after Chuu was kicked out and the company tried to hide their bankruptcy, which led to a big boycott. There are more examples like this, but There will only be a change regarding young kids debuting if a terrible event happens surrounding the issue. Otherwise, NOTHING WILL CHANGE.
Pre video thoughts: Personally since I feel like there’s nothing we can do to stop minors from debuting I just hope that these companies who insist on debuting kids who haven’t even completed middle school yet take care of them by providing them proper support systems, allowing them to eat healthy meals, and allowing them sleep. One too many 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gen idols who debuted young have said they wished they waited a few more years before joining the industry. Watching the kinds of things they went through post debut should be lesson enough to be more careful when debuting kids. Also I hope more companies and people can be accepting of older idols debuting in the industry. I remember idols from 1st and 2nd Gen would lie about their age because of the scrutiny they’d face for not debuting at 14. In present day R U Next Jiwoo gets LOTS of hate from knets because she’s “too old” to debut and she’s only 21. Groups like æspa, blackpink, gidle, exo and now riize, should tell you that you don’t need a bunch of under developed (skill wise) kids to make a successful group. The longer they train the better and more prepared they seem to be. And you can be grown and do a bright concept. Red velvet debuted with happiness a cuter brighter song and they were all 18+ at the time (this being before yeri joined).
We can stop minors from debuting if we stop financially supporting them "there's nothing we can do" is bs, K-pop fans just don't care enough to do anything about it
”I just hope that these companies who insist on debuting kids (…) take care of them by providing them proper support systems, allowing them to eat healthy meals, and allowing them to sleep.” Yeah that’s never gonna happen. Unless the companies are willing to never send the groups on music shows or let them be fat shamed for being a normal weight.
kpop industry is a cesspool of closeted p*dofiles in my opinion. when you’re already an adult, you’re not limited to any parameters when it comes to expressing yourself & that’s the beauty of it. this is where my issue with groups such as NJ comes into play. right now their lyrics and imagery are relatively tame (fawk “Cookie” and some weird undertones in the “Cool with you” MV, and ofc f u to Min Heejin, very sick individual), but what happens later when they’re not permanently stuck in their teenage years? what would the transition look like? it’s gonna be so awkward and uncomfortable. also their maknae will still be far behind when all her members become of age. I’m dead sure they will start pushing even more questionable shit, implementing lyrics and moves that would be inappropriate for any group with minors in it. I like NJ’s music direction but I cannot bring myself to fully “dive” into them. I don’t support them monetary, I don’t stream their music and MVs but I’m genuinely worried for these girls and for however many minors there are in this industry.
