“Your vision will bring an eternity of war.” It is now part of my headcanon that when the Emperor, imprisoned upon a great throne, casts his gaze over the galaxy that has been torn asunder by ceaseless war, his dream for humanity ten thousand years dead-he remembers an old man in a lonely church.
It's my belief that this was the last time The Emperor had an actual conversation with a human. Burning the Last Church was him burning away the last of his actual humanity.
lorgar was more "if you don't give people a healthy way to deal with their need they will find unhealthy ways" he was always going to need spiritual anchor in fact I'm pretty sure the reason why humanity believed the big E was a god was an inherent need for something greater. lorgar wasn't just punished he was humiliated in front of his father/god and his brothers. so he decided that he would find purpose in the dark gods who loved nothing more then praise. what could have been the emperor's most stout defender and warrior became his enemy simply due to the emperor's arrogance
@@sovietunion7643 If there's anyone I hope finds a way back, it's Lorgar. One of the more tragic characters in Warhammer 40k. Even Malcador says he regrets it.
Not just any human. A 'perfect' human. Who supposed to see everything with logic and reason yet the Emperor put the fate of the galaxy in the hands of several zealots, madman and despots.
Well, he can see the future… so, shaver he considers to be true is probably true. He’s insanely powerful and knowledgeable. Anything he knows is bound to be more true then anything someone else would know. His truth is truer then anyone else’s.
I may be wrong. But this whole Anthology, was about the Emperor being unable to separate Faith from Religion. Uraiah has his religion broken, but his Faith remained as unbrekable as ever. And the Emperor simply does not understand that, since he does not need Faith, or more like refuses to accept it.
To be fair, even by this point, it was pretty much like telling a person to trust in someone else when they know that they are potentially stronger than any other being considered a god, or at least on par. Faith cannot be put into any being when they do not know of anything greater than themselves.
You can't blame the Emperor for believing what he did. He was made from the collected souls and experience of nearly every trained psyker on pre-historic Earth; then personally witnessed every victory and failure of the human spirit since men first learned to work metal all the way to near mastery of the galaxy second only to the Eldar only to see it all come crashing down. We're told that the Iron Men revolting was already far worse than the Horus Heresy and perhaps all the Imperium's wars combined, we truly can't grasp the horrors the Emperor must have witnessed in the Age of Strife to shatter his optimism, finally stop helping humanity in the shadows and start the bloody reunification of Terra. That an unfathomable being such as him even bothered to still listen to "mere humans" like Uriah speaks of a semblance of humility under all the hubris we expect and know of him. Take the willingness of a hundred years old man that's travelled the world, experienced all manner of things taking life advice from a two year old... Then multiply that a thousandfold.
Well Faith sort of works in warhammer universe. It's basis for how Warp works. A blind Faith or devotion, or your own fear can spawn biggest horrors of this wrold. Emperor knows that and he can't control it. Might as well destroy all Faith and destroy Chaos gods that way. Only Old Ones knew how to control powers of the Warp and because Emperor had no time to just explain that. Becuase paradox is created because if you don't know how Warp works you can easly awaken it. Buf if you know how it works, it's abasicly useless because you can't create enough big belief to make it work. Not to mention many people just can't let go of their on Faith. And Emperor knew it.
Nobody can deny that he is seriously giving some mixed messages and need to figure out his crap. I genuinely think this was the moment that the emperor realized. I can't keep doing crack from the backgroundthe way I have been because otherwise this is going to keep happening every single time. But unfortunately, because he couldn't be honest about his grand plan. It's still happened with horace and the rest
@@ollanius_papyrus80 Keep in mind that the Emperor even in his prime accepted a LOT of compromises to keep the Imperium going. The cult Mechanicus, pressure from the High Lords to convene the Council of Nikea, Primarchs ignoring his word or going against it, So there is really good argument for why he would not go against the Imperial Cult and other such institutions similar to how Guilliman didn't dismantle them. Years ago I was part of a big discussion that ended with the conclusion that the character and the idea of the Emperor are so far removed from one each othat, that the Imperium might execute BigE himself if he seemingly goes against 'the will of the Emperor'. Quite morbid.
@TwoCentsforCharon I mean, the whole Monarchia incident seems like a pretty crucial contradiction to that as far as his tolerance. While I do admit that the mechanicus thing was an outlier, I don’t think he’d let his ideal future for humanity incorporate worship of any kind, least of all himself. Otherwise it wouldn’t be… well… his ideal future.
@@ollanius_papyrus80 yeah but monarchia... I know its canon but jesus.... It was written so bad. Almost like a fantasy of Lorgar to stand up against the 'big bad evil guy' If the chapter had ended with something like it being told by Kor phaeron as a propaganda piece, it would have made more sense
Uriah's story of how barbaric were thunderwarriors in terms of engaging the fleeing enemy really did gives consideration for the emperor to purge them in the end.
This is how ancient and medieval battles worked. Casualties only started to amount once the line was broken and one party fled the battlefield. That was when the cavalry engaged and the fleeing enemies were pursued, run down, butchered and plundered by the regular soldier.
Bruh.. I'm 6 books into the heresy series and the "meaningful conversations" are just well known cleeshays and ham fisted quotations you can find posted on motivational pages, it's cringe asf. If you are into 40k for meaningful discussions I feel bad for you man. 40k is a parody of meaningful conversations.
@@hazbiniznow89 depends. I do think there’s some good stuff in 40k that does feel meaningful, but yes, there is a lot of fake deep quotes accompanied with big battles and violence. But certain books, like Fulgrim, Helsreach, Thousand Sons, and the Eisenhorn series, for example, are genuinely well written and have some meaningful stuff
I honestly heard no arrogance in his tone at all, maybe a bit condescending, but that can't really be helped considering this would be like us trying to explain fine concepts to a toddler.
@@brendancoulter5761i mean those priests had all the titans and interstellar power projection, what do you expect him to do when all he has is terra, the moon and maybe venus?
I have a headcanon, When Uriah last looks at the clock, he smiles. It does not tick forward until well after he dies. He is hopeful for humanity's path under the Emperor, until his last breath, he is certain that humanity will live. But in the Grim Darkness of the 30th Millenium, there can be no hope. And then, the clock ticks.
That reminds me of Artellus Numeon. He was Vulkans equerry and commander of the Pyre Guard. He ferried Vulkans body back to Nocturne after Vulkan was stabbed by John Grammticus. After Vulkan and Artellus arrived on Nocturne, Artellus received a vision in the night. The vision showed a recovered and lively Vulkan striding across the Nocturnian sands. Artellus sacrificed himself to the scorching lava of Mount Deathfire, which, despite all odds and logic, succeeded in revivifying Vulkan. Artellus never saw his Primarch march from the mouth of the largest Volcanoe on Nocturne, but his purely faith-based sacrifice arguably saved the Imperium.
Thing is he KNOWS they exist but hopes that by stamping out any form of worship he can starve them into non-existence. He never seemed to realize that you don't need to actively acknowledge them to give them power as they are powered by all sentient emotion. They're fed just by sapient life existing.
Using Uriah as an iterator would have been a hilarious waste of talent, Uriah had a capability few others possess, the ability to see through the glamour of the Emperor, and would have been the single most valuable advisor the Emperor could have possessed. Reading through the Horus Heresy it seems clear that the Emperor completely lacked anyone who could point out flaws or mistakes in his plans, think to situations like the rescue of Angron, the sealing of the Vaults of Moravec, or the gift that never stops giving at Monarchia. The Emperor desperately needed someone who could actually disagree, which fundamentally none of his servants, not even Malcador seemed up to that task. Alas what could have been.
Yeah I could see Uriah filling a role almost identical to Malcador but mainly focused on things like faith and morals while Malcador dedicates his time towards science, psychic matters, and beuracracy.
@@namishusband818 He may also end up making it worse which is a given. However, I can agree under the assumption that the Emperor keeps close tabs on the two.
The reality is uriah represents the fragility of man. The emperor's perspective is one of supreme strength, so reason comes easily as a costless luxury. But the average man has nothing of the sort. Only faith remains when reason dictates all hope is lost. Faith is also not strictly a belief in God, but belief itself. And in many cases of our mortal lives, all we have is faith in ourselves when all we know is telling us that we will not make it etc.
Even as someone who's not religious, I note that the Emperor never fully addressed Uriah's point that plenty of secular governments have found their own justifications to go to war. Often by contriving some outrage to blame on their enemies, or convincing their people that the conquest will ultimately be beneficial for their victims.
Looking back at world history over wars of "religion", when you really read about what lead to the wars...religion was really just the tio of the ice berg. So many other things promted them to war...that if it was really just about religious differnces...they probably never would have gone to war at all.
@@nickchavez720 I think that in a lot of cases, the leadership of a nation would go to war for largely political reasons, but they used religion as a pretext to inspire the masses to fight.
You're barely scratching the surface of how hilariously bad the Emperor is in this debate. As a secularist myself I find it a bit cringe-worthy. He is just as dogmatic and autocratic as any of the religious authorities he criticises and he fails to actually provide any empirical distinction between them and himself. The crowning irony is that, in the end, he just expects Uriah to have faith in the nobility of his dream. Throughout the entire debate he grants his own argument a-priori by using one of the most hackneyed of fallacious appeals to un-logic (ironically, one beloved of religious apologists debating secularists!) which boils down to, "If I can knock enough holes in what you believe, it must follow that what I believe is right," Big E claims to be a proponent of reason and science, but also doesn't think people will embrace it unless he literally destroys the competition (astonishing cognitive dissonance!) and in the end Uriah proves that sincere faith is entirely self-sustaining and will never truly be destroyed. Big E should have re-thought his plans the moment that guy started walking into the burning church.
Ironically, that faith is the best hope mankind has since belief in a deity actually redirects that power AWAY from Chaos. The power the Emperor gets from the Imperial Cult would actually be boosting Chaos instead if the Imperial Truth had stuck.
Sure, but it's a Catch-22 and the darkest timeline. You need to sustain the very system that oppressed and kills many of its own subjects because the worst possible behavior has become a necessity of survival. It is a fate that's worse than death and which is only forestalling the inevitable extinction or enslavement of the species.
@@MrCmon113 Actually, Chaos is powered mostly by emotion. So long as intelligent beings (any form of sentient life) feel lust or desire, Slaanesh will exist. So long as anyone feels anger, Khorne will exist. So long as anyone feels love, Nurgle will exist. The only way to kill the Chaos Gods would be to eliminate all life except the Tyranids, and maybe the Orks. The Necrons aren't "alive." However, if you believe in a deity, what power you WOULD send to Khorne, etc, goes to that thing you believe in instead. The Emperor, Cegorach and the Omnissiah *cough*Dragon*cough* being worshipped is actually sapping power away from the Chaos Gods they'd be getting by default. Technically, this applies to the Orks, too, since they have their own Gods.
I love how these two both make excellent arguments for their position, but both have a degree of hypocrisy and arrogance. It's realistic and enlightening while being respectful to both sides.
they're both human, after all, he may be a 12 foot tall psychic superhuman, but deep down he's just a human, he too is susceptible to flaws present within all of us, that's why it doesn't surprise me that even in his imperial truth, he's still a massive hypocrite.
It's insane how many people are trying to portray one side as an idiot before the other when the book was clearly written with intentional logical issues. It's clear how calculated it is too. Note how the emperor often ignores the priest's points, he wants to convince fast and does not believe a word of what the priest says could hold water. It's like a computer not even letting the message hang out on it's hard drive to know it exists. It passes through and he outputs a response to defend his stance rather than see it truly. The priest has foolish bursts of anger meanwhile, and occasionally stammers into a "but faith!". Several times they circle eachother in an honestly silly "religion did bad" "yes but religion did good". Old wisened men fighting like teenagers in a sandpit. Except it represents the extent of the typical human experience in debate. There is highs and lows and outbursts and calm, though the unobservant might not see the tinge of anger below the emperor's words. Despite many reasonable ideas and many silly ones from both sides, the priest dies with a clear warning. The emperor's rule will lead to endless war and the people will turn to worship him in the darkest hours. And then the clock to the end of everything ticks to midnight. This truly is awe inspiring art and it is simply beyond the capability of most men to understand, even with having read the 40k universe and knowing what will happen-but especially those who have not read it would never understand and merely pick a side- for their own limited fleshy brain to decide is "mostly right and the other guy is kinda wrong".
@@no3ironman11100 but the priest didn’t disregard or totally argue against the emperor’s point. The emperor was arguing against religion all together while the priest was arguing for its existence, not it’s supremacy. The priest was main argument was that religion can be used for evil but it’s potential for goodness is still a prevalent necessity for humanity. That at the very least, religion should play a role to a minor degree rather than total outright rejection/ban, as the current landscape of 40k would be the inevitable result. At least the priest admits the failing of religion while emperor ignores the points of the priest. Hell if you read the lore or look at history, every society that chooses rational extremes like the Greeks and Romans collapse on themselves regressing towards religious extremes. While societal entities like India beca me so religious that rather than defend their nation from the Mughals they instead built temples in hopes of the gods defending them. Hell the Buddha himself explicitly told his followers that he’s not a god and what happened after his death, his followers split. The sect that defied him would inevitably become the most dominant, diverse, and wide spread frame of thought in East Asia. While rational belief systems like communism would result in the literal death of millions in Russia and China to such a extent that their demographic collapse is imminent to this day. Yes religion is has twisted traits but rational philosophy has a greater emphasis on cruelty for pragmatism.
@@The_preserver_x16 Yeah I agree, Religion is a lense into human psychology, what we fear and what we wish future generations do. As you do say, the point of the story is the emperor may have been correct to desire religion gone in his universe. But even if it's for the long term, we all wonder, were his methods right? From his view that is not unlike a god's omnipresence, the emperor is shown as failing to take the angle of a human being. You can sense part of him wishes to laugh and glee as he speaks to the priest, even if he does not. The priest senses as much. Right or wrong, but especially human nature and feelings vs raw hyper rationalism. Facts or feelings. If one was to win over as you say it might be cruel and turn us to logical automata, doomed to break down. The other would make us nothing but animals, growling and sneering as convenient to our belief, as god "forgives" any atrocity commited. Of course neither debater here is ENTIRELY such a fool, but they are given argumentative flaws intentionally. Communism is such an example. Cold rationalism mixing with the raw emotion of men who have been abused throughout industrialisation. Think of the intense sufferings, the times governments did nothing for those people.. and the times ideological violence was rewarded. The core of communism is built from the sorrow of men and women torn apart by a harsh life period, much harsher than what peasants had before. But a wish isn't enough for a functional societal system. Despite there being many philosophers and wise men who devised plans and ways to establish communism, the nature of the raw human emotions behind it's establishment leads to mistakes. In a sense, the things that happen under such regimes is both a beautifull display of the human spirit to rebel, to wish a greater future for their partner and children... and an atrocious display of violence and being misguided by incompetent, angry despots, no different from corporate overlords, who realize they were way in over their head leading millions. in short I agree with the conclusion you seem to have, both are a window into our souls, and if we do not be carefull of our behavior upon our fellow human beings and the changes we wish upon our society it can only end up misguided. The first fool to analyze is ourselves, not the others.
@@no3ironman11100Honestly I feel like the Priest’s arguments where a bit weaker than the Emperor’s in this one. I’m pretty sure I read that it’s because the author doesn’t know many good arguments for Religion. I’m only 11 minutes in and I see some counter points that the priest could have made that where pretty good ones. Granted I’ve seen this before but I only remember feeling like the priest’s arguments could have been better. Hell if you ignore your biases and look into 40k, you’d know that the Emperor is actually wrong in that there’s no higher powers since the warp exists and belief and emotions can create gods like how the Eldar formed their pantheon or how the Chaos Gods came into existence through emotions. Whether he’s right that it’s better to abandon faith for science and reason is a different argument all together though. One that’s probably true within reason though.
I think the main point is that most films now forget to create world to live in. By that i mean most of movies now have really robotic dialouge, constant refrences to real world or that stupid winking to camera that Disney Star Wars did. It's so frustrating that films forget to be films and acually sell you that it is diffrent world/reality. That have rules and people acually will have conversations. This is just 2 people that never existed, but you still can feel from how they talk and act what kind of past they had. And overexplaning things. I mean most of Disney movies are quilty of that
The last clock tick is a very powerful and symbolical thing in the whole context of Warhammer lore. It truly was the beginning of the end as Uriah said. The Emperor lies mostly dead, his vision for humanity broken and twisted beyond recognition. His Empire turning its back to all he believed in and fractured by his own sons. His very being clinging to life after his beloved son struck him. And the most ironic thing? The only thing uniting humanity, the only thing that pushes them forward. Is their zealous and wholehearted belief in their god, the God-Emperor of Mankind. How very poetic this whole story was.
I am not very knowledgable in this stuff at all. But isn't the fact that he removed all religion the thing that saved them in the end? I mean without all the people worshipping the Emperor, wouldnt he lose all his powers and humanity doomed to be destroyed? What if everyone went to pray for their own gods instead of the emperor, they would all be dead by now? Idk but maybe his death was all part of his big schekel scheme and by removing all religion he secured humanities safety even after his "death". Maybe he did all that because he knew his death was unavoidable and had to come up with a solution that would keep humanity alive. Either everyone overlooked this or i am missed something important. I've read lots of comments that said he made a mistake and all that.
@@jsbfkdls Emperor is just a mortal in a very loose sense. He is just a really fucking powerful psyker and has been that powerful from the start. He doesn't get any power from worship and it is literally useless to him in his current state. Worship plays a small part in empowering the gods and it is mostly emotions that does the big work. If interpret the "1000 sacrifices a day" thing. I think it's just their soul or something of similar nature being turned into power by the Golden Throne to give him a pick-me-up to keep the Astronomican running. Maybe he always knew his death was inevitable but I don't think he envisioned it happening so soon and at the hands of Horus. Emperor always wanted to create a civilization that thought with reason and logic and not with faith and religion. Maybe he thought that that was the best way to go but maybe he also thought that that way humans wouldn't be susceptible to Chaos' influence since they wouldn't believe in gods. Thus, if he removes religion and faith, humans would be sort-of immune to temptations of the Chaos as they would think logically and not with emotions and faith. You're right that destroying religion and faith saved them when the Emperor was alive. But it also doomed them when they started to worship him as a god. And we don't really know if removing religion was actually the best way to go, it's just speculation. As they have retconned how Warp works. It is now quite possible that the Emperor will become a Chaos God as previously it was just emotions that affected the warp, but now worship also plays a part in its workings. So when the Emperor dies, the worship of his being would logically create a Chaos God from that, and we don't know how that one would turn out.
@@DeathTheManiac Well the Emperor shows clear signs of existential exhaustion, especially in his more recent dealing with Guilliman. The only reason why he hasn't let himself go yet is because of how vital the Astronomican is to Humanity's galactic civilization and also because without the little bit of recurring guidance that he is able to give once in a while, the idiots of the Inquisition and the unworthy Highborns would turn the Imperium into an even bigger shit than it already is. With Guilliman around he seems to have gotten back some of his will to keep fighting but I am sure he is very disappointed at how things turned out.
In the actual book, the watch was a grand clock and it was one of the myriad of relics that was kept in the church. It was foretold that the "doomsday clock' signaled the ultimate doom of mankind but luckily it has stopped working and people came to believe that it meant that mankind's downfall was also stopped. It started working again when the last church was burned down.
@@DeathTheManiac I think recent lore has made it very clear that the Emperor is a God and that Guilliman is soon to follow, he was a very powerful psyker and a human in the past, he is no longer the Emperor of 10000 years ago, he is divine.
46:00 love this part. “Sorry for your loss. If it makes you feel any better, the people who killed your family was obliterated because they would not accept unity.” “I don’t cheer for their demise, them being judged by my god is good enough for me.” His so called god before him, “how noble.”
And now, the Imperial "Truth" is "Best Left Forgotten" and Faith once more provides Hope in the Darkest of Times. I hope Uriah is chuckling somewhere, trying his hardest not to say "I told you" to a very frustrated Emps.
Uriah is actually chilling in the warp. Half laughing and being half sad about emperor. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-7XGX64XfSkU.html
One thing that gives me some contentment in regards to the ending is that Uriah died happy. He reflected on all the good he had done and the peace he had found thanks to his faith, and died holding the watch (resembling his family) and while kneeling in prayer in his church that had given him healing and purpose in his later years. The Emperor's fate was far more tragic, in the end.
Only fanatics deal in extremes. What makes Uriah so desireable - and I think it is partly the reason for the more or less secret admiration by the Emperor for him - is his ability that he is able to reflect the church's flaws. Nonetheless, he found his personal, probably intended and non-missionary way to gain true inner strength through it. His final words, reasoning, refusal for the offer and subsequent suicide make this perfectly clear. That makes Uriah actually a threat and reason why religion must be purged, I guess. It's been very often misleading and authorities have abused their power in its name, however religion or belief in general have also the potential to immunize ppl towards extremism and make ppl find their inner peace. And peace is exactly what the Emperor doesnot need.
There would be a war nonetheless. Not with man against another man but against Chaos and Xenos. Emperor is indeed dictator but given the grand schemes of things, it's better to live under the dictatorship than being eated by Tyranid or have ribcage raped by Futa Slaneeshi demon.
Yes, when I first heard that in the audio book, I thought that finally, Uriah will concede his argument, realize that his God was Big E, but that heart warming scene fell apart quite quickly...
You know, the last part makes me think of the Custodians. They saw the closest humanity was to reaching the Dream. Then they saw it all burn to the ground. They saw the brink, and before they touched it, they lost everything. The one man they cared for, The one dream they followed. They lost everything. It all burned as they reached for it.
It was this failure that caused them to withdraw into the palace for 10,000 years. In doing so, they allowed the Imperium to fester and stagnate. A storied history of victory after victory, compounded with two terrible decisions based on grief. It is good to see the 10,000 march again.
Whenever people say that W40K writing is essentially teen fiction, I point them to this. Beautifully written, beautifully acted, and beautifully animated.
Teen fiction! Ha! I remember reading the HH in the 80's-90's. Just hit the big 50 and I have over 40 books in the series,including the Collected Visions book. I love it! Used to have the pewter figures,till lost in transit.
You do know that this is a Fan-made product right? The fact that the fans can write doesn't inmediately means the original release also had this quality.
The emperor would probably be happier not having everyone beneath him. You can tell there’s joy he experiences in the simple act of connecting to another in this short with out any kind of hierarchy present. Even something as universal across cultures as enjoying parenthood was robbed from by having to see the primarchs only as tools.
I can imagine that, at the end of the day, the Emperor must be a lonely man. He's pushing 40,000 years old when he meets Uriah. People wanted to worship him as a god even during the Great Crusade. The conversation that he had with Uriah really humanizes him and makes me think that the one thing he may want most that he's never going to have because he's well the Emperor is sincere camaraderie with other humans.
In the End and the Death, Malcador believes The Emperor always hated that title. It seemed obnoxious to him, but a role he had to fulfil. Granted, that's Mal's opinion but he knew Emps better than most.
He does love them as sons, the part of his soul that carried his empathy compassion and love was severed from his soul before his fight with Horus so he would not hesitate during their battle.
@@chiffmonkey Tau at least have managed to create attractive ideology and favor co-operation in their politics. Of course this being 40k, most GRIMDARK setting ever it means "surrender and obey or die" instead of Imperium's "surrender and die".
@@vksasdgaming9472 Did you just call the greater good an attractive ideology? It's an incredible dangerous ideology, which basically allows the Tau to do what ever they want, because the ends justify the means. It's no better than the imperium. They're just less powerful.
youre assuming the emperor didnt know half his primarchs would go rogue. no one knows the deal he made and then reneged on with chaos. its possible events are unfolding exactly as the emperor intended.
I believe it's known that the emperor knew half of his son's would turn to Chaos, that's why he never gave a fuck for Angron, for example. Some, like Fulgrim were unexpected and tragic
He didn't that's what is so human at the core of the lore of the Emperor and the Imperium at large. The Emperor wasn't infallible because despite being immensely powerful, Intelligent and charismatic the Emperor is still just a man. But it is exactly because of the legendary way his deeds and story is viewed and told he became viewed as a god. He loved all of his sons but as I would imagine any parent who has a dozen of children... sadly not all are attended to, guided and supported equally. And it was for no misunderstanding of the human experience or condition that he became viewed as a god... this was already happening during the Great crusade. He understood that uprooting our tendency for superstition would take generations. It was only with his placement upon the golden throne that yet again as he spoke of in this beautiful work it was the opportunistic greed mongers who bestowed upon him the title of god for their own ends. The Emperor powerless to intervene physically at that point. No he has not reluctantly agreed that he must become the very thing that divides us most. He is a paraplegic and psychic projections and farting warp storms can only do so much to convince anyone otherwise.
He's a being at the time this takes place well over 50,000 years old, perhaps far older. He has lived for over a thousand generations throughout all of recorded (and unrecorded) human history. The Imperium he built thrived under his guiding principles and sage wisdom. It wasn't until his vision was upturned that decay set in. He KNOWS he's right, it just wasn't within his power to fully realize his goal.
@ieatmice751 And yet he spread good, throughout his life. He was able to make the lives of those he touched better. Which you cannot say for the God-Emperor.
Somebody said it, " When God's clash galaxies burn." Was foreshadowing. It really made me think of Horus saying, "let the Galaxy burn"! Uriah's wisdom was far beyond the emperor's knowledge in this entire interaction. If only he had listened to him he wouldn't be on the brink of death with an imperium that begun to praise him against his wishes...
"Against his wishes" hahaha. That's funny. Remember how Slaanesh happened? I truly think that is what the Emperor intends to happen to himself. Uriah saw it coming, and so did the Emperor. When you deny people something they want it more. Every person who give 2 seconds of thought about teenagers knows that. Much less an immortal being that's been around for millenia.
Love the depictions of the Thunder Warriors in this short story. Monsters created to fight the gene-bred, techno/psycher horrors of a post-apocalyptic Earth, when unleashed on normal humans their bloodlust and savagery is on full display. This is why the Emperor disposed of them when the war was over, once the monsters were gone, the only monsters left were them.
@@gustavoritter7321 But making the Custodes took time and resources. He made the Thunder Warriors first, to serve as the prototype Custodes/Astartes, and as a means to get himself power, time and resources.
@@gustavoritter7321 Different type of soldier created a different way for a different purpose entirely. The Custodes took an immense amount of time, resources, and failures to achieve. I believe the metric is something staggering like out of all the noble sons given to the Custodes project it's like 1 - 1000 survive the gene alchemy necessary to trigger the transformation. That wouldn't do to conquer Earth, even the Custodes didn't have the capabilities to pacify the techno barbarians. The Pan Pacific dictatorship alone had many many millions of soldiers, for all their godlike martial powers the Custodes simply couldn't have been everywhere at once. Plus, creating super soldiers is hard, even the Emperor, he required practice. The Thunder Warriors were the first of the, "mass produced super soldier" that the Emperor had in his long play book and where the Thunder Warriors failed or were subpar, the Space Marines were engineered to have no such flaws.
Superb answer when king Arthur had conquered his enemies he said to merlin who is there that can destroy us now Merlin looked at him and said sadly my liege only ourselves
Damn time flies by! 2 years since we finished it (and a couple more for the production), but I feel like was yesterday. Had a blast making the art for it, and this animation really changed many personal things in my life (even how I perceive this religious topic). From time to time I check here the comments, and it's really nice after all this time to see people enjoying your work and discussing what was made. Huge thank you to everyone who supported us in the process, unfortunately, we could not keep going, but at least we had a great run!
After talking with Tyber I think the community suffered a great loss not being able to see your upcoming project, The Triumph of Ulanor. This is just as big of a tragedy as the Death of Hope being cancelled. We will never forgive GW for this. Never. You distinguished people are a gift to our hobby and community and The God Emperor bless you for all the work you have done. From the bottom of my heart I wish you people all the best in life! Maybe in another life we will get to see the rest of your work. ❤️
@@gangstercheesefries1112 Same, I really loved this, and it showed me a more serious side of warhammer I hadn't seen much of before. I've rewatched this many times, and wish there was more stuff like it.
@@ToBeFrank_. I love the philosophical side of Warhammer doesn't matter if it's good philosophy or bad its always entertaining then dudes like these fellas come along with the beautiful voice acting music and art and tie it all together with a big bow we live in an wonderful time for storytelling
@@jacklaurentius6130 You could say the same for theists. Using books of myths and fables written by men, to justify atrocities committed and actions taken, also using deception and delusion to on top of that benefit financially from it. Or do I need to remind you of "priests" like Joel Olsteen, who turned away the poor and hungry and needy so they wouldn't track mud on his carpet? Yet still take millions in donations from the poor, even though greed is considered again, by his God, a sin, a cardinal one at that? I am indigenous, do I need to remind you of the horrors committed upon my people and ancestors by white Christians, cultural and actual genocide dictated by a God who's own commandments say not to kill? RU-vid doesn't delete your comments, you just make poor ones friend. I would debate you further on this, as I genuinely love a good debate, but I am tired, and I am only to assume that your type isn't worth arguing with. Just note that notifications are off, I wont get a reply from you, nor will I bother to read it. Be well, be better.
@@richardshiflett5181 but this is 40k, 30k? So there is an afterlife, eternal suffering or eternal chaos for death or being erased entirely at some point after death due to the warp so, legitimately the worst place to exist in.
Its sad that in their arrogance, by their own actions and partially by the system of human creation, GW has managed to alienate their own fans. To destroy the foundation upon which they have built their success will be their undoing.
Its like EA and the idiots who pay for FIFA every single fcking year. As long as the plastic crack addicts keep throwing cash at them, they will be able to do this
@@KillTeamHungary Exactly, that's the core problem. A select population either unwilling or unable to see they are being exploited by an uncaring company. The football fans are not accustomed to the rather savage and exploitive treatment of EA, thus they simply assume it is the norm, rather than the exception. Its infuriating from a seasoned gamers perspective.
@@hellgeist_ Wall of text incoming. This is not an angry rant, want to make that clear. Just a clarification. The concept of beings known as "Chaos Gods" have been a thing in fantasy fiction since the work of Michael Moorcock, the creator of Elric of Melnibone in 1961. Dark Elves in fantasy being a race bent on torture and decadence? Literally ripped from Moorcock's work. The Dark Elves and Eldar are Melnibonean's in all but name. The multiverse as a literary tool to enable thousands of plotlines, characters, and stories to converge as one? Moorcock with his creation of The Eternal Champion. And Chaos Gods? Elric, his first major character serves Arioch, a demon lord, and shouts as he slays with his demonic runeblade Stormbringer: "Blood and Souls for my Lord Arioch!" Sound familiar? "Blood for the Blood God" Warhammer is the literary melting pot of every cool idea from fantasy and science fiction crammed into two universes. Space Marines with Power Armor? Robert E. Heinlein with the original story of Starship Troopers. Sigmar? He's basically Conan the Barbarian if Conan were Proto German instead of Proto Celt. Elric himself was made to be the exact opposite of Conan as a joke XD He's a lithe elven like albino who is physically weak and a sorcerer, everything that Conan is not. The High Elves of Warhammer Fantasy? Atlantian's mixed with Greek and Celtic folklore. I love Warhammer with all my heart, but it never had an original base to start from, its only through exploring this cavalcade of ideas that they developed the characters we love like Gotrek Gurnisson, or Commissar Gaunt. I'm happy it's spun off into mostly its own thing, but to forget its roots is to do a great disservice to the writers that came before it.
If someone would ever do a TV show about Horus Heresy the "Last Church" would be awesome pilot episode. As the Emperor stares into the remains, we see a closeup of his face, from there it jumps into the triumph on Ullanor and naming Horus a Warmaster.
Can't do it. Why? Because of religious idiots IRL. You can't make a show that makes people think about the arguments of "both sides" and realize neither are perfect, and maybe even both evil. It's in the interest of those in power to keep the populace as simple-minded apes.
No, it wouldn't. Unless Horus Heresy would be philosophical in nature, the Last Church would be horrible as a stage setting episode for the series. I would see it rather as an extra bonus episode or something like this.
it's absolutely amazing that they found a voice actor that could voice so perfectly the Emprah... And, btw, the voice actor playing the priest is stellar too !
Yes the voice acting was truly impressive and really made the whole thing memorable. It could probably have been a radio drama or audiobook and still be excellent.
What is so great about The Last Church? Even people who know nothing of the universe can still appreciate this fine work. Hell, even my mother did, both the audiobook and movie.
“So many that even I cannot know the full measure of it. My sight is lacking, for all that I am worshiped as a deity. I cannot even protect my own people fully from the depredations of the Enemy, or even their own selves.” He snorted wryly. “Oh Uriah, if you lived you would no doubt be laughing at me. But only to keep from weeping.”
It's.... sad but nice to know that for all the bad blood between the two, that in their short time they knew each other, the two were definitely friends. And good friends stay with you in strife and joy
@@jwisepart It's a short story titled "the Last Church" from a Warhammer 40K anthology novel. If you are interested the lore behind 40k is quite expansive and is covered well by channels like the amber king and luetin09 here on youtube.
Emperor: Once there were some bad people that killed entire towns because of religion. Now if you excuse me, I'm going to go into space, kill untold trillions of humans and quadrillions of aliens for the simple crime of not being humans, and turn half the galaxy into a concentration work camp even before the Horus Heresy. Religion bad *tips fedora*
That’s had me laughing. The irony. If reading real history and warhammer history I think there are obvious similarities that mankind doesn’t change and the emperor (like most) was an idealist.
@@therealmcgoy4968 that was the point of the book though. Uriah wasn't a theologist so he had trouble finding arguments while Emperor had no time or desire to have actual argument as he already judged the church to be destroyed years prior.
Jesus, just something about that priest going back into the church made me start tearing up. Made me consider my own faith and stuff that was told to me when I was a kid. It's hard to know if being that devout is a good thing, but at least he was at peace with himself.
Nothing is good or wrong with faith if you believe in it you usually are blinded by it to the point you cannot accept another faith as History has shown us if you discard faith more often then not hope dies with it for what is the purpose if nothing will happen afterwards and you cannot see what can happen both options lead down the same path that no one can see the truth one blinds reality and acceptance the other blinds hope and the good in the world even only a little neither side allows us to see the truth that's the truth of the mind it traps itself using it's own logic but it would be pointless if we weren't blind if we could understand all awnsers the world would stagnate religion pushing forward our morals either by outdated morals or setting corner stones while sceptics challenge the understanding and find out more with only one there would be no conflict of ideas to push it forward I hope that makes your consideration easier or just take it as a fool babbling nonsense he read off a milk carton
I found myself tearing up as well, the way I saw it is that last scene is the end of religion, the last church. No more prayers on the planet, no more priests. All of our machinations, history and years of religious culture through writings and teachings all to end up in the frame of an 80 year old man. He is the last one...and then he is gone. No more...
I didn't see it as an act of devotion, I thought he had given up his his faith in God but still prefered to believe in the good of humanity than in the vision of the emperor.
A immortal emperor that was made from humans with telepathic ability’s that is so set in his ways and views the he could not except the honest advice the last priest had given him Fast forward to the 40k time I’m pretty sure this priests words are haunting the emperor
I actually don't think so. Despite what fans think the Emperor actually comes off very well if you actually pay attention to what he says and does. It's not that the Emperor doesn't understand human nature nor Uriah's faith. If anything he probably understands it too well, but is so superhuman and confident that none of it will change what he intends to do. The Emperor _lets_ Uriah commit suicide. Because he knows he'd never accept the Emperor's vision for humanity. He knows and understands he is "destroying a repository of knowledge." He's sentimental enough to visit the church one last time because he does care about history and art. He actually likes history and old things -- old wine. Old art. But the Emperor has to be a politician and conqueror, not a historian or a scholar. And he really does like Uriah personally. But personal feelings don't enter into his calculations. People and Uriah say you can't change human nature. Unfortunately, the Emperor still intends to try. That's why he invented the Imperial Truth as a substitute. Telling him it's futile doesn't mean anything to him. He really does have that kind of unshakeable confidence that somebody has to do _something_ about humanity's survival. And that somebody might as well be him. Calling him a tyrant won't change his mind about it. He knew the risks of what he was doing and still decided to accept them. That he failed in the end changes nothing. He was up against the Chaos gods and species extinction. Failure was always the possibility.
Yes, and I am sorry about that, YT studio is ASS and it didn't just cut out the problematic music piece (as stated in the feature) but the entire sound channel as well.
I'm just gonna say it im not very religious but for a second in this I felt what faith is like. I understand now. I love the Astartes project for all its cinematic brilliance. But this.. its art and beauty, poetry rivaled only perhaps by the great dialogs of ancient Greek philosophers and one of the most beautiful works of art I have ever had the pleasure of seeing.
Fun fact : there is less time difference between us and Ancient Greek philosophers in the real world, than between 40k events and this discussion between the Emperor and Uriah.
Same here. I've never been religious at all really. But this fictional discussion, oddly enough, did a better job to show me what faith is than anyone who has spoken to me about it in my life. Also, this had me laughing at The Emperors own hypocrisy time and time again.
@@scootergrant8683 To me it sounds kind of like the dude from the Darkest Dungeon. Likely mostly the bass voice and "slow and methodical" manner of speech.
The scene when the priest and the Emperor just enjoy an old wine is really touching and a bit sad. The Old world and the New world sharing a last bottle together before the last remain of the old world fades away.
It might be more appropriate to say that the last remnant of the past, who works to shape the future, sits across from the last symbol of the present, who knows what the future will be anyway. They both have remnants of the past in them, the difference is what parts they chose to pay attention to, and what they chose to take with them into the next day.
We are talking about one of the most loyal and devoted fan bases out there so it's speaks for it's self GW is a business so they wish to money only the fans have love for it that friend is the difference.
Or humanity would have been consumed by the dark gods sooner. How many religions do you think Tzeentch could subvert into worshipping him? How many pious men do you think Slaanesh could seduce with promisses of every desire they denied themselves? So long as humanity has a connection to the Warp, the dark gods would have inevitably found a way to corrupt it. The only way to save humanity from the influence of the dark gods was to cut it off from the Warp completely. And that is exactly what the Emperor was trying to do with his webway project. Until Horus screwed it all up.
I think this is my favorite story to come from WH40k. No flashy battles, no powerswords flaying deamons, No grand deaths on a scale that would make the every war blush. A dialogue between two people with two very different views. Something that I love reading about. Learning about others and their views are how we learn about each other as humans with very different upbringings.
For. The. Fans. This was amazing. The voice acting was brilliant and the ending made me tear up. The fact that GW is trying to tear this down is harrowing.
The emperor didn’t fuck up, he couldn’t have predicted one of his sons would have betrayed him He created a utopia, that fell into ruin because they abandoned his ideology and became the thing he wished to rid humanity of
@@ieatmice751 Except that he did predict exactly that. He even tried to plan ahead for it, which usually just ended up making things even worse. I like to call these "why did you burn down Monarchia you golden dumbass" moments. Like, with most of the traitor primarchs, he could've easily prevented their fall by just not being a dick. But because he was so obsessed with the big picture, he missed those small details that would eventually cause his downfall.
If they ever make Warhammer 40k animated series, the Last Church should be first episode. This animated tale is outstanding! Voice acting, art, sound... All perfect!
Oriah: "There is no place for me in this godless world of yours!" Emperor: "Of course there is, embrace the new way and be part of something incredible." Reality: "To the Manofactorium with you!" Humanities greatest achievement and dreams. Terra is one big disgusting hive world. Thats what the dream was. Hive worlds, agri worlds and forge worlds. One worse than the other.
@@MrCmon113 Pfff. Like thats true. It was the Emperor's making. Read the heresy books. The Space Marines of 30k were as cruelly handled and did their job as the Thunder Warriors. In the first Heresy book, it is written, that a world full of beauty, culture, and art, was flattened by the Space Marines, because they didn't want to be part of the new Imperium. They killed a bunch of people, killed the leader, than started planning the new look of the city. Turning it into a Hive World. While Chaos is dipshit, that is true. But what the Emperor and his Marines did weren't Ultramar. It was very ugly. A rebellion was understandable. What they did during the rebellion, unforgivable. What Chaos does in the 40k is unreasonable. But that doesn't make the Emperor perfect.
@@Kareszkoma That varied on Legion, most were relatively subtle like the 3rd and 1st, but then you also had the World Eaters, and Night Lords who generally didn't leave anything in their wake.
@@GrimdarkCrusader20th Ha.. That's an understatement. Some Legions should've been struck off from the list. I understand that the legion of Sanguinius and Magnus was almost struck. And some were closer to being wiped out than others. But damn.. I'm not even sure if some Legions should've existed. The more I read about them, the worse they are. Some was bad to begin with, but unlike the Legion of Sanguinius, they became worse when their Primarch was found. Edit.: I read the history of Curse's legion. Wow. Why is it even a wonder things gone south?
"When gods clash, galaxies burn" "So let it be war, from the skies of Terra to the Galactic Rim. Let the seas boil, let the stars fall. Though it takes the last drop of my blood, I will see the galaxy freed once more. And if I cannot save it from your failure, Father, then let the galaxy BURN!" -Horus Lupercal
THIS was 40k. Sure, animations for Astartes are cool and all but this..? This is the true grimdark nature of the universe brought to light. Just two men discussing and fighting for their beliefs... and the ultimate tragedy at the end of the path the Emperor carved with the best of intentions
I’ve always loved this story and the absolute irony re: the deification of the Emperor of Mankind after the Horus Heresy. He argues logic, reason, and science only to be worshiped as God post-Heresy. He is also a hypocrite as, by this point, he has already visited the Warp, struck his deal with the Chaos gods, and increased exponentially in psychic power. He knows that gods *do* exist and that his argument to Uriah is a lie. The lie may be intended to shelter Man from Chaos, but it remains a lie no less.
I think that there is a difference between chaos gods and what Uriah is talking about. Chaos gods didn't create or the universe. And while they very much do exist, they are as much a god as a really big tree with a cult following. What does seem dishonest with the Emperor's argument, however, is his rejection of the supernatural. Because while 'god' has some leeway on definitions, I think that everyone can look at /the Warp/The Emperor and classify that as supernatural.
We call them Chaos gods, since they are so indescribably stronger than us and function on a system of faith and corruption, but they are not divine in the sense that classical religion would have you believe. They are incredibly powerful entities in a different dimension that operates on different rules. But for that, they have motives, a beginning and a possible end. The Emperor did not lie.
@@GoodDreamer748 Yeah, that is prolly true. The Emperor was ending religion to try to weaken Chaos by reducing human belief and emotion that feeds Chaos.
@@repthe21st66 Complete side thought… I’ve heard it argued that the Emperor is more powerful than the four Chaos gods combined. The argument was that Horus Leupercal was possessed by Chaos Undivided when he fought the Emperor. The Emperor shredded Horus’ soul and obliterated it from all existence. In your opinion, do you think the Emperor was actually that powerful? I tend to think so but dunno for sure. I love 40k lore.
@@Vaille32 Any answer to this as valid as any other, because we simply don't know and there is no way to know. Both the Emperor's power and the power of the Chaos Gods is very poorly defined other than 'like, hella strong you guys'
@@exurgemars There's always an Erebus. That is the problem with Utopian visions. A perfect world can only come about if it is populated by perfect people.
@@Raziel312 a caveman would've deemed our modern society an utopia. A perfect vision. And yet it is not so feeble as to fall to ruin at the mere whim of thirsting gods and their puppets. The Emperor's vision wasn't one of perfection and utopia, but one of sustainable evolution and progress, shedding our tainted past to thrust us as a species into a new age. It would've been to us what we are to an uncultured troglodyte.
This is probably my favorite 40K story. I love that it's Canon that in the grim darkness of the far future, it is not the terrible, booming cannons, or crackling, monstrous power blades that turn aside the designs of demonic forces, but faith, pure true faith, that sends the horrors of the Warp screaming back to the void.
You’ve completely missed the point of the story lmao Faith is what allows things like the chaos gods to prosper and grind away at humanity. Faith only serves to prop up an authoritarian regime that holds untold trillions in bondage and slavery. Soldiers fighting for a false truth and a decaying imperium that is not worth dying for. The imperium of man is tragedy, a failed attempt by a flawed visionary to bring humanity to a state of godhood but ultimately resulting in his message being twisted by cruel and callous men to enslave humanity and prolong the collapse of their corrupt system. Blind faith sends billions to their deaths for no other purpose than to hold the line against a cold and pitiless universe. The emperor is not a god despite what people would like to believe, he has no power to alter the fate of men.
@@ieatmice751 This is fedora-tipping heretical propaganda. In the Heresy the first daemon we ever see is a pink horror who tries to murder Euphrate Keeler, and is shown to be immune to most forms of damage, until she bears the symbol of the Imperial Faith in its face and the pure holy light of the icon sends it back to the realm of Tzeentch. It is atheistic ignorance that sets the stage for the heresy by allowing Lorgar to embrace the lie of chaos from Erebus and Kor Phaeron. The Emperor's "Imperial Truth" was a bold-faced lie and he knew it was, he intentionally lied to his entire race when he had to have known that faith in a GOOD God can counter faith in a false one. Simple disbelief cannot work, because the Chaos worshipper can silence your screeches of "DEBATE ME" by calling Kabanda to eat your soul.
@ieatmice751 you could turn around and argue that even if Big E is truly helpless(which even pre rift wasn't entirely true though admittedly his interventions were very indirect at best) people are willing to believe in him and through that faith perform acts of heroism in defiance of the inevitable rotting end of the imperium.
I never knew of an audiobook or that this was 40k, I just saw the title the last church and thought it was intriguing. Rather than just the audio book this kind of thing has potential to introduce people to the entire franchise when its accessible for people who are looking for something to watch and allow them to do so freely .
There are always those who will twist religion to their own desires, and sometimes there will be some who seek to wipe out other beliefs. Those are the ones who make religion a horror story. Religion is merely a fact of life, and it will persist, whether you and I believe or not. It is human nature, and so it is neither good nor evil.
the battle with the thunder warriors really did justice for the sense of absolute horror and brutality that would have taken place... "...this wasn't the glorious battle I had dreamed of, it was mechanized butchery..." fantastic brother, just fantastic!!!
Also show WHY they had to go, thunder warriors are not space marines, they are monsters, seeking for the next kill, no other reason, they cared for humanity has much has they care for sheep, things that needed to be butchered. Space marines at least some legions truly wanted to help and guide humanity, not a minority but a majority, wishing keep people safe, ready to kill any who threatened their people. Angels of death, daemons of thunder.
Perhaps the saddest part of this story is that for all they argue about religion vs secularism it really boils down to being a good person versus a bad person, irregardless of their beliefs. And if half the lore of Warhammer40k is to be believed the Emperor was a complete asshole who was doomed to fail right from the start. Not because he failed to acknowledge religion, but because he failed to acknowledge the most simple kindness and human decency that would have gone so far in making the pillars of the Imperium stable
what good is saving humanity if it has lost its heart. People flock to the Darkness of chaos because it actually gives them a chance to be more than a disposable meat cog in the imperium. The worship of the emperor was a desperate grab for something bigger than them to aspire to be.
To say nothing of how, when Warhammer 40K was first written, we already had examples of godless religion for the state in communism. In the years since, we have only more evidence that when the state monopolizes all devotion to itself, human beings become nothing more than cogs and cattle to die by the hundreds of thousands. The Emperor is superhuman, but essentially no different than any autocrat before him.
The real tragedy here is that both of them were right in their own way. But neither could bend, even a little. And thus, two men who may have been friends were forced into conflict. One died for his beliefs. And the other turned to the very things that he warned against.
As long as there is passion...as long as there is a great joy and appreciation to the recitation of great stories...works like this shall never die, and will always be reborn through the hands of another. Wonderful work, you great saint.
If only they could have found balance in Faith and reason. Science and Gods do not need to be separate entities if they seek the same truth. A humble mind such a our priest would have been valuable to the Imperium.
I am currently writing an alternate timeline with Warhammer 40k, where the Emperor decided to take Uriah's words to heart and keeps the book and the stone from the church as a set of mementos and builds his throne using the stone as a base for it and keeps the book at his side at all times; re-writing it and taking the lessons that he takes from the book and crafts a book of his own. Using science and combining it with the tenets of religion; the new Imperial Truth dictates that the Emperor is indeed a god-like being, and to be like him and earn a place at his side, you are to pursue kindness, knowledge and having faith in the goodwill of humanity is the true path to enlightenment. The Emperor would become more understanding and caring and more human than he ever was before. The last church would still burn but The Emperor would ask Uriah to teach him more and help him understand more about why faith is such a pivotal part of the human experience; and when Uriah dies, The Emperor would bury his friend beneath his Golden throne and construct the Imperial palace upon the peaks of Mt Everest. Because of this understanding, when he would go to search for and bring home his sons, he would impart what he learned onto his children. He would teach Lorgar how faith should be used and how to properly turn a populace in favor of the new religion without the need for violence and all-out war. He would have faith in his son Konrad and help him interpret his visions. He would help Angron by teaching him to control his temper and encouraging his son to let the pain flow through and subside, while Malcador and The Emperor try to cure his son. He would bring Mortarion's adoptive father down from the mountain and have faith that his son will prevail in his duel. He would have Peterabo be the one to construct the Imperial palace and put his faith in his son's abilities. The Emperor will appoint Guilliman as the warmaster, and place Horus as Robute's right-hand. And thus, the Imperium of Man will reach a golden age and be at its full might and prepared for a galaxy at war.
@@CodexQuinn Not yet; but it's a work in progress. My original design is an imperium that welcomed the tampering with and reverse engineering of xenos tech; but then it evolved from there into something a fair bit larger and something that won't be done in quite a while.
@@dungeonlessdm6914 as a toaster boi myself, I have a feeling the Mechanicum might take offense to that. Unless they had the “xeno tech bad” taken out of them, then I’d understand. Edit: regardless, I’d love to give it a read whenever you happen to finish it. Sounds interesting, and I’ve always loved alt history in fiction.
Until today one crucial part of the lore that I could never reconcile was The Emperor's betrayal of the Thunder Warriors. This animated short story finally helped me realize why he did it. Why he would be forced to terminate warriors that were fanatically loyal to him. He realized what monsters they were, and understood that they needed to die. Even so, I don't think that he hated them or saw them merely as a tool that had outlived its utility. Otherwise why would he spread the legend of their heroic martyrdom? He knew that the monsters he created needed to die but he wanted to honor their sacrifice somehow. Thank you for making this. EDIT: I've read/heard this story about 3 times before but never has it been driven home so well that the Big E is just a rational, intelligent, immortal man that has seen all the ridiculous, horrendous shit that humanity routinely commits on itself and is desperately trying to stop it.
I'd say the bigger sin was letting Horus kill Sanguinius and himself. He failed the responsibility he had taken upon himself by allowing that to happen. I simply can't sympathize with his fatherly feelings with so much hanging in the balance.
Imagine thunder warriors putting down a guerilla rebellion lol. One disobedient hive city turns into a planetary chainsword exterminatus every single time
Well the fact that the thunder warriors all had MEGA CANCER and were all going to go insane and die a slow painful death is the other reason. THEY WEREN'T MADE TO LEAVE TERRA. They were pumped out fast, and burnt out even faster. They were candles burning both wick ends.... They were tools to till the earth....they were never intended to go out into the stars.
He hated them bc he did not believe in freedom of choice. The astartes were not better warriors, they were genetically compelled to be loyal the emperor or his genetic subclones. The reality is that the emperor had a fear of humanity’s spirit this fear turned to hatred and he wanted to crush that spirit bc he lost hope that humanity on its own could be trusted. However he also hated himself and his warriors bc deep inside he knew himself for the enemy of humanity’s spirit. In a way, his destruction of the thunder warriors was also an act of vengeance for the humanity they crushed.
Seeing this side of the Emperor really makes me, a dedicated Death Korps fan, like him more. However, he does seem to be a little confused with some things, but after all, he's only human, just like all his subjects.
@@ArgonRU-vid He speaks out about religion yet denies that just as many issues with religion are displayed by him self and those that follow him. He is very VERY closed minded despite his vast intelligence. He is MASSIVELY hypocritical to say the least.
I think his hypocrisy comes from the fact that he's never found a question he hasn't had an answer for. His vast intelligence and wisdom has brought him to the conclusion that he doesn't need things like faith or belief like us basic humans do, thus seeing no use for it. So he's pretty detached in that sense.
No contemporary politics, no one-sided political themed jabs intended to target a group in our world, just good 'ol fashioned 40k, with a hard-hitting philosophical joust between two characters who might as well be bros by the end of it. I figure that Uriah let the Emperor go and not the other way around. Somber ending, but what a powerful man. No wonder the Emperor wanted him to join the Crusade.
@@isaac3140I think he means there’s no cheap shots across the aisle. No one-sided narrative based on modern ideals. It’s timeless because it could be applied anywhere in history due to both sides putting their best foot forward and making compelling reasoning for their points. In short, it doesn’t feel like the writer pulled a party line or just repeated the common narrative.
Most importantly, beyond the philosophy, tragedy and irony that comes with us knowing where the emperor's vision ultimately leads, this story is one of the few times we get an actual insight into the kind of person the emperor used to be. It is of course subject to interpretation, but it is heavily implied that the emperor is fundamentally a good man, that however believes the ends justify the means, but also isn't necessarily happy about what those means have to be. But we also see his very human flaws, and how he is just as stubborn in his religion of science, and it is possible that a small part of him wanted Uriah to convince him. One of the best wh40k stories, period.
The funny thing is the emperor clearly never lived through our modern age 120 years of secular governments committing mass genocide at a rate no religion ever has.
@@Sakura_Matou Chaos Gods formed as complete identity in warp around humans Middle Ages. Slaanesh appeared only at the end of the Age of Strife. Emperor was born around 10 000 BC. So, he is actually older.
@@Doomerbro99 Demons appeared during War in the heavens, but Chaos gods awakened only during humans Bronze Age and Middle Ages. You can read it at Lexicanum
