Deadly slow, deadly dull, and wholly unnecessary (this is Maazel's third complete Mahler symphony cycle), this set is the very definition of utter pointlessness.
5:54 I was at the concert where the 8th was recorded, and one of the double-bass players certainly had a rough time, as she fainted and slid off her stool, her instrument clattering loudly to the stage. Thankfully, we were informed later that she was fine. By sheer luck, the incident happened during the brief pause when the flute stops and the chorus starts singing "Alles vergängliche" at the very end, so it was easy to edit out of the recording.
@@steveevans6241 It was indeed a tepid performance in hindsight, although this being my first "live" Mahler 8 made up for it somewhat. By coincidence, I was to see my _second_ M8 a few months later, with Gergiev and the Mariinsky Orchestra in Cardiff... a much more thrilling experience!
@@ftumschk Thankfully I've had a few good Mahler 8's in my time (although it's not a fave of mine by any stretch), but it was also the first live Mahler 8 for a friend who attended with me. He said apart from the big noise it made it didn't really move him at all & we both agreed the performance gave no new insight into the piece whatsoever!
Maazel was always fairly unique bordering on eccentric. His tendency to slow things down to a crawl could border on perverse. I remember hearing the finale of Berlioz's "Fantastique" that he managed to make sound dull and lugubrious - it was a live broadcast, I don't remember the orchestra, but it was on the car radio. My roommate was there too, and loved the piece, but was clearly irritated by what he was hearing and drily said, "The demons sound hung-over tonight."
I was at an RFH concert in the eighties(?) when Maazel conducted the Mahler 6th with the Philharmonia - easily one of my most disappointing concert evenings - redefined the word tedious. I vividly remember a member of the double bass section yawning during the first movement. Tells you everything you need to know!
Do you have an opinion on MTT's "Mahler Project" with San Francisco? Tempting, because it's beautifully boxed with a big booklet, and because I treasure MTT"s "Resurrection."
I admit I haven't heard this set (no plans on hearing or getting it either - I just don't need it!), but I was at all of these live & they were certainly very variable. However, I do remember Maazel doing two 9th's about a year apart I think. I was at both of those & they seemed best suited (imho) to Maazel's "reptilian" approach, (similar to Klemperer's in a way) otherwise I do find the 9th a little bit too overwhelming sometimes unless it's slightly "distanced". Not sure if both performances got spliced up & issued in this box. Maazel's 7th was the worst of all though (probably the same one as recorded here), it was just so wrong & off kilter, dull as ditchwater & like wading through quicksand. As someone else here has mentioned, one of the double bass players fainted in part 2 of the 8th & fell off their stool onto the stage & was rescued by colleagues. Maazel glanced briefly in that direction & continued unflustered but as it hadn't exactly been a scintillating performance up to that point anyway, it seemed like a metaphor for its sheer boringness!
THANK you, Dave!!! I bought this set out of curiosity -- it's still in the shrink wrap. I have plenty of Mahler cycles. I bought the Sony/Vienna Phil. one complete but there was a problem with the final "box" (hard plastic), so I actually bought THAT again, to stick it with the set. Then, when it all came out in a smaller, cardboard box, I bought that too. Pointletism. (That's like Pointless-ism, or something). Finally, when I heard of this set being so incredibly boring & dull, but with one of my favorite orchestras, (one of many) the Philharmonia, I just had to own it. Alas, however, from now on whenever I look at my Philharmonia/Mazzel set -- in its shrinkwrap -- I will give it a warm smile and say inside, "Thank you, Dave, for listening to this -- so I don't have to."
Have recently discovered Dave’s channel and am thoroughly enjoying everything on it. On strength of his recommendations I’ve purchased Paul Kletzki and Czech Phil Beethoven Symphonies and think it’s great .Have also ordered his book on Beethoven . Keep up the good work Dave!
Yes...Maazel's Mahler was always weird. But my introduction to the Mahler 2nd was Maael's Vienna recording, from some record club...I can't remember. So, imprinted on it and the soloists were excellent. At some point I bought his Mahler 3rd...because I must hear ALL Mahler 3rds. Yes, it's rather slow and sleepy, but I'd rather hear this than either of Solti's, where he rushes through everything.
For me, Maazel's Vienna Mahler 2nd is the BEST, and I've heard many. The idiomatic playing of the VPO is amazing, and what sounds like Maazel's idiosyncratic approach is...nine times out of ten..what Mahler actually wrote. It's a fabulous recording...as is the Third, which is absolutely fascinating (despite an unfortunate missing big Tam-tam note in the 1st Mvt) throughout, until the finale, which Maazel tried to s-t-r-e-t-c-h beyond recognition. He/they just couldn't sustain it at such a silly, lugubrious tempo. Too bad, since it ruined an otherwise first-rate performance. And yes, Maazel's 4th is probably the best you will ever hear, and the 5th and 7th are also excellent. So his 1st set with Vienna is not to be dismissed..even though it's basically been forgotten. LR
I still count my blessings that I never gave in to the temptation to purchase this particular set. Even at that point in my life I had more than enough quality Mahler, and Maazel never was one of my favourites. When he was so much younger he wasn't that bad, but to my mind the older he got, the more coldly detached he became. You're correct Dave...life's too short to waste money and time on something so dreary as this. Thanks!
Mahler aside, I totally agree about Maazel. In his young career he made some great recordings for Decca, the Sibelius symphonies, Tchaikovsky overtures and a great R.Strauss recording of Don Juan and Death & Transfiguration. Also a superb Prokofiev Cinderella, ballet score.. His later recordings are a pale shadow of his former self.
An anecdote for the "(Technically) great artists, bad days" series: in a concert in Madrid, with the Wiener Philharmoniker, no less, the orchestra (specially the percusionist) and Maazel lost their respective clues in Ravel's Bolero so much that they had to stop and begin again. Really a bad day.
Very unusual for Maazel; many musicians who played under him appreciated the clarity of his baton technique. Perhaps the orchestra, not Maazel, was at fault?
I dove straight into the beginning of the 8th and it's dire - there's no energy or drive to it, it reminds me of the way people used to sing baroque allegros where all you hear is how careful everything is and the music loses its drive and verve. I hated the Sony recordings when they were released and these seem even worse.
Maazel was a magnificent conductor (Mahler 4, Battle) (Ravel, L'enfant), but from time to time, both in the recording studio and in concert, he had what in Spanish is called a "pájara". A "pájara" is, for example, a drop in energy in a cyclist, who faints almost at the finish line. Maazel was a cyclist in the orchestra with that problem. Thanks David, you are fantastic.
1. I know you don’t talk about live performances here, but I heard the Rattle/BRSO Mahler 6 on tour in Philly last week, and I was absolutely blown away by how much bass they played with and how they seemed like an orchestra who still knows how to play loud. I’m sure there were fussy Rattle details in the interpretation that if I listened to again on recording might bother me, but it was really great to hear a major orchestra just dig in and play loud and with bass. Philly doesn’t do that anymore, and I’m grateful to you Dave for helping me be a better listener for what to pay attention to in orchestral sonority.
What really interested me was the programming for the NY performance. Hindemith's Rag Time and Zemlinsky's Symphonic Songs in the first half. Kudos. Apparently, he dropped those in Philly.
Sorry I missed it. So many concerts, so little time. I heard the BRSO in Munich a few years ago, performing Schubert conducted by Muti. Wowza! By the way, Yannick and the Philadelphia regulars played a smashing Mahler 7th just a few weeks ago. I will say I was not disappointed.
@@scp240 I heard that 7th…it was too clean and far too tame for how I like my Mahler. Yannick doesn’t have them play with enough depth and bass in the orchestral sonority or with any real volume. Even when guest conductors come, Philly doesn’t play loud or with enough bass.
When Maazel was heading the Pittsburgh Symphony, he did a Mahler 2nd that was just plain irritating. At the end, just before the finale, about 8 trumpet players walked across the front of the stage and faced the audience, and drowned out the chorus and orchestra with Maazel's bizarre interpretation of what the finale should be. A complete monster of a performance.
Regarding the first movement of the 7th, Maazel sleepwalks through the NYPO performance as well. Kubelik, too, lumbers through this movement with the NY Phil. I never understood how this wrong headed tempo choice came to be.
His Mahler 4th with VPO is surely a candidate for reference recording for that work? Highly praised when it first appeared, often appears as a comparison recording when new recordings are reviewed by critics, and has remained in circulation ever since its release. The only other candidate may be Szell, but was his version consistently available? Even if Szell was the reference, that position was arguably usurped by Maazel.
I've always found Maazel's Mahler to be spotty at best. He once commented to the effect that he had to be dragged to Mahler's music kicking and screaming, so I suppose that's no surprise.
In his younger years he made some knockout recordings. The DG/Berlin from the '60s has a top-drawer Capriccio Espagnol. For London he made those terrific Cleveland recordings like Porgy and Bess, Prokofieff's Romeo and Juliet. His Puccini Trittico on CBS is still my reference. And I actually like most of his VPO Mahler cycle - the 8th is dull, but the rest is pretty good.
So unfairly dismissive. You could say that about 95% of major conductors, in the grand scheme of things. Unlike 95% of major conductors, Maazel was a genius with a photographic memory and a baton technique to match, who had the entire orchestral repertoire in his brain and fingers. Even if people dislike most of his recordings, he still made more great ones than most. Not that recordings, which are just a product, should be the ultimate measure of one's career. As someone who grew up witnessing how he transformed the Pittsburgh Symphony into a previously unsurpassed instrument of precision, virtuosity and polish, Maazel made a difference to me.
@@martinhaub6828 Sony recently remastered the VPO Mahler cycle for SACD. Unfortunately, it's only available in Japan and is pretty expensive, but it sounds great.
