The Legacy of MMO Dungeons 

Dungeons have been a mainstay of MMOs since their very foundation and show no signs of going away. What DO YOU think make the best MMO dungeon? Drop a comment and let us know. So it's been a while since we posted 😅. We've had this video idea cooking for a long time, since we first got deep into Project MMO, so I hope you enjoy. We're expecting to be back in a studio space in November so production can ramp up then (barring stuff like fanfest, blizzcon, RWF etc), finding time and locations to film is very difficult when working from home. In any case, for the most part this is what you can now come to expect from the channel, less videos but they should largely be high quality productions. If you're looking for the more opinion piece stuff that you might be used to drop a subscribe over on www.youtube.com/@PreachHighlights. We'll have more of that stuff going up there.

BRD is still my favorite after all of these years. I remember liking it and coming back in classic I still loved it (can't say that about everything classic I used to like). Being able to do so many different runs. Jailbreak runs, Emperor runs, HoJ runs before it dropped off Emp, arena runs, so many others. Tons of quests, bosses, tons of routes through those different bosses. Love it all and was a blast to get to experience again.

My favorite dungeon is Blackrock Depths. So much variety and old school D&D dungeon feel.

Finally another Legacy video! Not what I was expecting as far as the topic goes, but a welcome surprise regardless

Deadmines is a great choice. So much story that built up to it over 2+ zones. For me, that story really hit home in BRD, where we discover the betrayal of Lady Prestor. Really tied it all together in a perfect way.

The last scene of this video now stands out even more than it did when we watched it last week. RIP Bendog. What a great boy. He will be missed by all of us.

18:50 That section with content creators telling their favourite dungeons is great - really nails it with the argument "Everyone wants something slightly different". Great video, Preach!

Blackrock Depths is by far the best dungeon in the history of MMO's, and that is big and sprawling. You can choose to either do a full quest run, maybe only do the pre-key part. Maybe you wanna do an arena run or maybe take shortcuts and lavajump straight to the end to farm the Emperor, and much more. Such a good dungeon.

I really liked Ghimlyt Dark in FFXIV, it was the first dungeon that really broke the mould, up until then, fighting the Garleans hadnt really been depicted outside of the "End of an Era" cinematic, so to have a dungeon where we fought our way through the trenches of a death filled battlefield, with airships, paratroopers and anti aircraft guns shooting off in the distance, not just with our party, but alongside city leaders, Scions and other soldiers, it felt amazing

My favourite dungeon is Court of Stars. I love how every run can be different due to all the class and profession specific things in there. It's also beautiful to look at, not too long and has some clever events. The lore and story are also very cool. It's perfect!

The absolute best experience ever was doing the Lost City of Tovir before the nerfs. The haunting music in the background for hours. The hard-core mechanics actually worked very well for that dungeon out of all of them in cataclysm.

My fav one is probably the twinning from FF14 the music is great but the highlight are the datalogs that you find through out the dungeon once you read them all you put 2 and 2 together and the final boss shows up and its not the Shadowbringers boss music, because of the thing you found out by reading the datalogs i loved that. and from WOW its probably the arcway, its a classic dungeon setting the "underground sewer" but with a twist, it had the withered that were there for the magic, the legion doing their shady work corroborating with the nightborn and other sewer denizens that were the result of all the magical waste.

One of my fondest WoW memories is doing a full run of Blackrock Depths when I was leveling a Heal Paladin during Mists. 5.1 it was, I believe. We did EVERY boss. Even the optional one we needed the Dark Iron Runes or whatever they were called for. The boss that you can only fight if everybody loots everything in that general area and doesn't leave. And to cap it off, we did the final boss *severely* *under* *level* where the tank would regularly take one of those extra heavy hits because they were four levels lower. I think the boss was level 58, the tank was 54 and I was 52. It was exhilarating, and we pulled through without a single person biting the dust. Just remembering makes me wish for a similar experience in other games. However. It also took a long, long time. To this day I am surprised that a group of completely random players stuck through until the end. Those moments are oh so very rare. No matter the time period. Which is why I don't want these massive dungeons to be a mandatory part of any game. But to have the option to just continue after the current portion is done would ideal. But I don't think current MMO design allows for this sort of dungeon to exist again. It would have to be the central "dungeon" on release and you'd return to it every time. Which could make for interesting design on every level, truth be told. I just don't think it will ever happen.

Guild Wars 1 man. Every story mission was basically a dungeon. And then.... they added massive multi level dungeons years later. Such and incredible game.

I miss dungeons being bigger than even some game continents. I remember Aion 1.0's dungeons which culminated in Draupnir Caverns were a multi-hour affair and something you can get lost in with massive vertical heights and a free-form way to traverse to the final boss in an epic arena. It really felt like a long D&D session.

Black Rook hold is my favorite, climbing a tower with a lot of enemies, interesting bosses and even some fun gimmick stuff like dodge the rocks, also it might be that i did that place like 500+ times every patch in legion for a titanforged relic and leggo chances lol, still love that place

Your legacy videos are amazing, and this was no different. Much appreciation this was a very fun watch

My favorite dungeon experience was Scarlet Monastery. It’s not the best but the feeling I got as a kid of finding this random place on a hill after powerful mobs and then forming a party going in and keep seeing how the place opens up to courtyard thinking how much farther can I go was just magical. I feel zones that could be solo or with 2 people and curated could be super fun to see. Like in a jrpg where you stumble upon a cave and just go explore but has specific assets to that place.

I would like both some longer dungeons and some shorter faster ones as long as the players get to choose which dungeons to do.

Love the legacy videos (and the outakes are great!) For the dungeons, you make the point a few times that many really enjoy the largescale exploration the first time, but no one wants to farm that. I think there needs to be a difference in farmable content and story content, and having multiple versions of the same dungeon accomplish that.

Dude, I've been watching your content since early MOP and this is an incredibly well done and well written video. It's crazy to see how far you've come as a content creator. Kudos to you and everything you've been able to accomplish covering video games in general. It's good to see good people doing good things. Best to you, your family, and your entire team.

I think it's fascinating the way dungeon design evolves alongside it's audience. Like playing classic, I heard for years how much people liked the huge sprawling dungeons, yet the classic playerbase found ways to effectively speed run them so they behaved like how more modern blizz dungeon design does. It really shows dungeons went the way they did for a reason.

I love the legacy series, very happy another one finally showed up!

There are two moments in classic wow that left me awestruck. One of them was seeing the boat for the first time in deadmines. The scenery shift from that tiny little cave into the giant room. It reminded me of bowser’s submarine in Mario 64. I remember every detail of that moment so vividly. The second was seeing the waterfall in Maraudon for similar reasons. You’re going through a gross pestilent cave and it opens up to a vibrant lush area like the waterfall.

fuckin loved that part with the people voicing their fav dungeons. Everyone was SOOOOO varied in responses. Great video preach, so happy to support you here and twitch man. Your community rocks!

Hi Preach team, Long ago when you were releasing the "legacy of X class in WoW" (i specifically remember the mage and wrath of Litch king legacy being released) I was struggling hard-core in life (messy break up) and spending 14+ hours In bed each day. For whatever reason I binge watched your legacy videos over and over while laying in bed. That content helped me during a challenging time in my life - even if just to provide an escape from the horrible funk i was in. Seeing another legacy be posted reminded me of the thankfulness I had for your content during that time. Doing much better with a full time job and a wonderful lady in my life (am I tearing up slightly right now??). Just wanted to say thank you for helping someone through a tough time years ago. You never know who you might be impacting!

Jordan with the Amaurot representation 🥰 Also, on paper, variant and further dungeons hit a lot of those desirable points 😂

LOVED THIS, Mike. (and team) thanks big bunches. I identified almost all of it, having myself played most of it. Great content brother, much love

Another banger of a vid. Well done! BRD has a special little place for me, but I think the ideal setup to me is having mega dungeons that are one continuous zone that you can also split up into 2 or 3 parts (DM, etc). That way you can target certain sections and not have to do the whole thing every time.

The only thing that could make me smile more than a new legacy video from Preach is when that unmistakable music comes in at 21:50...I swear whenever you heard that music play, you know you were about to watch something golden. Never stop Mike!

Darkness Falls in Dark Age of Camelot sticks out to me at spontaneous thought. It was available in different wings for different levels from like level 15-20 all the way to max level, with a raid component tacked on toward the deepest levels, without being instanced content. Also, only available to ENTER for one faction (of three, for those who are unfimilar with DAoC) at a time, bound by keeps taken in the Realm vs Realm PVP system. So people could of course have their sneaky stealther character logged in in there and grief the faction that had their portal open, or when the switch happened a some PvP groups could enter and wipe out the opposition faction players. Just so many of the MMO systems tacked on to one dungeon.

My favorite dungeon of all time was Black rock- the WHOLE THING. I remember the moment it became my favorite too. Took the group FIVE HOURS to do, but at the time me and one of the DPS didn't know how big the instance actually was (This was near the end of BC). We died a lot especially as the bosses and trash got higher level than us, but we had a blast. We chatted, strategized, even took a 30 minute break half way to recoup a bit. I think what made it memorable one, it was all new to me and this other DPS, and the others obviously enjoyed the challenge as we progressively got out matched by the higher level stuff deeper in. We died a lot, but we always got back up, laughed, and went at it harder. Now a days as an adult I can't dedicate that much time anymore, but it still cemented itself as my favorite dungeon ever. I miss those days, but I also enjoy the quicker stuff especially since my free time has shrunk over the years. Growing up sucks.

Great video. i do not agree in many points but i wil add my 2 cents below: Regarding Guild Wars 2 dungeons and how some players find them intricate, even though they may not be as complex as they seem, In my view, dungeons offer a unique and engaging experience that sets them apart from other MMOs. First off, it's essential to acknowledge that Guild Wars 2 dungeons are not without their flaws. ivbeen playing Wow for 7 yrs and GW2 since launch. They haven't received many of the recent core mechanics and quality-of-life improvements present in the game today. Additionally, the rewards for completing them may not always match the time and effort invested (actualy. they simply don't), making them less appealing to veteran players and even fro new players who seeks only profits. However, despite these shortcomings, Guild Wars 2 dungeons remain captivating for several reasons. One of the standout features of these dungeons is the multiple paths they offer. This diversity ensures that each run is distinct, something we cannot say from WoW Dungeons (specially previous WotLK) keeping the content fresh and exciting. It encourages exploration, aligning with Guild Wars 2's core philosophy that values discovery and adventure. Unlike some other MMOs, like WoW, where dungeons can feel like tedious, time-gated slogs with unnecessary walking and no real storytelling connection, for me, Guild Wars 2 dungeons manage to strike a more balanced experience between gameplay and narrative. Again: narrative is more elaborate in GW2 so it's expected. Speaking of storytelling, GW2 dungeons are rich in narrative elements. They play a crucial role in advancing the game's overarching story, making them appealing to players who enjoy immersive storytelling. This is in contrast to players solely focused on loot and gear, as some MMOs tend to cater to. Again: the game HAS a philosophy. The way i see it, it's important to recognize this and adding complexity and unique content to dungeon formats, as seen in Guild Wars 2, aligns with THAT developer's philosophy and the game's core identity. It's not just about quick MOBA-style battles or flashy rewards; it's about weaving an engaging narrative into the gameplay experience. Dungeons in GW2 are OLD so again, we MUST aknowledge they def can be immproved yet when reviewing MMOs, it's vital to consider whether dungeons are an integral part of the game's identity or merely a segmented add-on. IMHO, dungeons in the MMO genre should integrate storytelling seamlessly into the gameplay, creating a distinct experience compared to open-world PvE. Foir fast paced quick reward high dopamine content, GW2 created FRactals and after that, more chalenging, they created Strikes (end hard content being RAIDS ofc). a perfect-ish balance between dificulty and quickness with story elements in a small dose. Dungeons should feel contained and integral to the game's world rather than being isolated segments with loading screens, which can disrupt the immersion and overall MMO experience. TL;DR: In the end, Guild Wars 2 dungeons, and the game as a whole, might not be for those seeking quick loot and flashy, dopamine-inducing experiences. Guild Wars 2 shines with its unmatched combat system, diverse professions, and classes. For players who dismiss storytelling as 'trash' or 'filler,' they might miss out on the true essence of what makes GW2 special. Great TBT video! Preacher!

Dude, this video was awesome, just so fun to listen to, really hope this does well and more content like this comes out. Also deadmines, back in 2006 that was my first dungeon I went into, I had 0 clue what I was doing, we spent 2-3 hours in there and omg, as a nerd who had that time it was amazing.

My favourite is Castle Zvahl from FFXI. It's the atmosphere and the time you go in the Main Scenario originally was super freaking awesome and the fact it was super dangerous to enter in just made it really cool to get through at the end and going through the ending that it had which kinda made me swell up slightly.

I really like how you lay out the various design goals a dungeon needs to fulfill, and that is something that every developer has to not only solve, but also stick their guns to. BRD makes great memories. But nobody's running BRD every day or even every week - that's the whole reason why it feels special. I struggle to recall many WoW dungeons without looking them up because I have done them so many times they really just blur out and fade. If you show me a list, I'll remember them, yeah - but otherwise it's just another day in the office.

This was a great video!! It would never work now, and it's not a 'good thing', but as an EQ boomer, I loved the feeling of a dungeon and thinking, "If I die here, I'm done and I'll never get my corpse back." It was a real sense of danger, even if it's not practical.

Are you shittinng me. A Legacy video?! It's been so long! btw, second Legacy vid you start with BB music mate. Means quality. Edit: Ok, Ben Dog brings this video to a solid 11/10

Was not expecting the cavalcade of my favorite MMO creators.

I Really Really love the vanilla wow dungeons, imo its a big thing for me to get lost in a dungeon on the 1st run. Usually by doing it over and over you'll know the route by heart but the 1st run is huge for me and I love getting lost in dungeons the 1st time. BRD is the best dungeon ever made in any mmo made till today and thats by FAR

Good final video-moment for Ben dog.

Great video. I can at least contribute a lil nugget of wisdom to this one. During a convention in germany about table top games there was one lecture about dungeons, that also viewed dungeons in video games, but focused on the table top dungeons in the end. And there were a few quotes that stuck with me all the years since then and during my time as a game master. "A dungeon can be anything, as long as it a closed off enviourment with opposing forces and any kind of reward waiting for them. The area can be in a closed room or a cave or even an open market, as long as the players (for the time being) can´t leave the area. For example guard block the way out. A reward can be anything from loot, to a story progession or just insight for the characters personal interest." "When designing traps and encounters in a dungeon always consider -nothing- to be an option. If every chest has massive loot in them or even tiny amount this washes down how players see loot in the first place. When in every room of a manor is a monster encounter it strains the players and the gametime. To have nothing there keeps them on edge because they don´t know when there will be something, or not" Thank you for reading

I definitely enjoyed this video but I can't believe you didn't talk about Blackrock Depths. I think it's such a stand out and special dungeon that deserves more attention and conversation.

One of my strongest memories of "early" WoW is, when I encountered the Deadmines. At that point I didn't knew the concept of a "Dungeon" in an MMORPG. So I went in alone with my Dwarf Hunter and thought..."shit, this is hard. How am I supposed to do that?" XD. After I left the dungeon and asked around, a RP-player explained the Dungeon to me in the funniest way possible. So we searched a for a group and managed to do complete the dungeon (a few wipes included). Good times.

imo thats exactly what difficulty tiers like normal/heroic/mythic/mythic+ serve for and enough people don't seem to give it credit for, you can do dungeons as you level thru the zone as part of the story and do it on normal or heroic and be able to take your time and admire and explore, you can do that after levelling in mythic to get some good gear at the start of an expac and then you can have fun solving the puzzle of how to do these fast and efficient at end game with mythic+ . Although for some reason people tend to mostly want to rush normals and heroics because they want to level fast and then skip mythic into mythic+ for the loot, normally one would expect people would be driven then to try forms of social engagement like meeting people in a dungeon and exploring or having a really good mythic+ pug and instead of forming guilds and communities around these interests they mostly walk around solo imagining themselves as ronin in the wilderness. At heart, and i know this point is very redundant but as pointed seems to be often forgotten, wow is a social games and the players have to do their part of searching for where they want to belong in the game or even make their own little corner. Ofc it's blizzes job then to make sure people feel driven and that the time commitment of creating said communities would be worth it, which they were failing miserably but DF truly feels like a breath of fresh air after SL , and despite its flaws it's just getting better. Great video, always love seeing a legacy video be dropped, amazing editing and 10/10 skits.

Pretty good summary! *My wishes for WoWs "dungeon" future:* Basic dungeons are mega-dungeons and for LFG and M+ you just carve out certain areas to complete to finish the run. The Basic-Version stays intact as m+0 or some higher tuning (similar to Dawn of the Infinites in 10.1.5) so you can explore and gear up in a single run without the RNG group or timer breathing down your neck. Looking back for example the old 4 Auchindoun Dungeons from Outland could be one massive area connected via corner segments in the major structure of the remained ruins.

Man that was great, I hope it gets all the attention it deserves!

Great video! Maybe they could have a Scenario-style mode you'd have to complete once per account to unlock a dungeon and this mode includes the story, RP and nice fixed rewards to boost your character's strength. Then, once unlocked, it's available in a LFD tool in s shorter format.

Finally. After 84 years of waiting. I love this series, and this needs to come back Preach! It's how I found your channel was through your Warrior Legacy video

Great vid, interesting facts and ideas, but my god that desk was hanging on for dear life in that hilarious skit

Is... Is this a dream? I thought you forgot about the legacy videos.

It's only at minute 21:46 that what you started saying made my heart melt. Basically, I was a private server player that never went beyond WOTLK. And around 2013 I found your channel and liked the way you strut your stuff. Legacy content that I felt was relevant to me and I wanted to see on youtube. Then I saw your streams and saw your more unedited and rawer side. It's then that I felt a kinship watching both you and your friend. Speaking exclusively from a para social perspective, where I have never met you or anyone you talk about in person, just observing, I felt that distance that formed years ago. And I understand that life does what life does, and I am not here to point fingers, I am just giving an honest critique of your content with all the relevant info that went into formulating this opinion. This stuff is great, the production value is the best it's ever been, you're keeping it nice and tight. [from an alternate dimension, I saw the same video in your 2013 style, and the cave style antics and shenaniganry that would have made up the live portion of this video] And that made me smile. I felt like a kid again. Please make more of this kind of content and be relaxed in your life knowing that you are doing what keeps you happy

I saw the title on my phones notifications and I LOST IT! I recently binged all the other legacies and have been wishing they'd come back. Big hype Preach and Team! ❤

10:24 That Hot Fuzz Neighborhood Watch Alliance composite shot was top shelf.

This was amazing! Loved the gags, the music, and the in depth dive. As someone who's played quite a few mmos over the years- I first off agree about deadmines... and I think part of it also ties in with the limits. Everyone is low level and still learning and it really is a great entrypoint. I think my favorite part of the older school design was that exploration and that tangible danger. I certainly miss it. I'm a long time XIV player and recently have been tackling a variant dungeon blind with some friends, while drinking. It's been some of the most fun I've had in a while. I really hope they iterate on it in dawntrail- but your video also reminded me of the different paths in GW2 dungeons and I kind of want to convince some friends to go revisit/give it a try.

been meaning to watch this since it came out, was hype to see a Legacy video in my inbox :)

Even though I'm a sucker for quick and compact, deadmines really hits everywhere. It's the only classic dungeon I genuinely love running repeatedly, it has everything you want, to epic boss fights and encounters to some of the best loot available at that level. You just can't go wrong with the deadmines. In the same way, I think Tasavesh really nails it to what dungeons should be, a fun and interesting dungeon with unique and fun encounters to a rich story that is really well told just by its environment all to top it off with an incredibly boss fight.

nice to see preach do a tour of his new studio in the beginning was wondering how that was going

Favorite dungeon of all time? Tam-Tara Deepcroft (Hard). --Story leading into it is something most wouldn't pay attention to or even remember after all the big, bombastic stuff ('NPCs have lives outside your field of view' type storytelling). --Optional notes which can be read at any time along the way or after, adding context/flavor to an already unsettling place. --Atmosphere continuously keeps you on edge, especially when a demon-summoning cult didn't make the place feel so utterly _wrong._ --Enemy placement/variety is not only functional but tells an unspoken story on its own, even moreso when names of each are researched (Dantalion/Piscodemon/etc). --Not too long and not too short, you get the full experience by just carving your way through the various rooms (all decorated with words written in blood by-the-by). --The moment you re-encounter Edda and she looks back at you while smiling before letting loose the most MANIACAL AND INSANITY-FILLED GRIN I have ever seen. This look shook me the first time I saw it and had me thinking about it for months, to the point that her words combined with it had me questioning my _plot armor._ Seriously, if you play FFXIV and you never got around to doing it, go through Tam Tara Hard synced and look all about the place as you take in the altogether messed up ambience (as well as listen to someone absolutely shred the shamisen in the backing track, _'Dark Vows'._

My favorite Everquest dungeon was Akheva. It was so spooky when I played it, and the little centi dudes had their own language that could be translated. More recently, I love Ktisis.

Maybe this is nostalgia talking, but as much as I love mythic plus, what I miss from dungeons in all three mmos I play today, is feeling that they are alive - like I felt back in classic WoW. Brd being my best example, it feels like a city that people live in. Ff14 dungeons feel like a movie youre watching to tell you the story, wow dungeons even the megadungeons feel like their purpose is to turn into mythic plus, gw2 fractals are kinda similar to mythic plus. It might also be the fact that mass pulling in dungeons is the standard now, rather than slow pulls with cc

Kinda shocked Blackrock depths wasn't mentioned once in this video, it's regarded by many as one of the best dungeons ever made in wow. Just skimming through the comments its been mentioned so many times.

Don't often watch anymore, nice to see a good oldschool video, was really nice.

For me, the biggest joy of playing games is the sense of discovery. Exploring dangerous areas for rich rewards. Not knowing what's around the next corner. Seeing amazing things for the first time. Learning and mastering the systems and enemies. MMO content is kind of the antithesis of that because it is (and MUST be) designed to be repeatable. Content that is amazing but one-and-done is just a waste to create for an MMO/live service, especially if it eventually becomes obsolete and skipped over. Its effort you could instead spend on content that supports your game well into the future and expands the variety of things players can do. Big exploratory dungeons with loads of off paths and secrets and puzzles are awesome... the first time. Once you know everything, the magic is gone and you just want a tight gameplay experience that has good rewards and doesn't drag on too long. So with that in mind I feel like the ideal content for MMOs is something that's a little different every time you go. Lots of randomization and roguelike elements. Random room layouts, random spawns, random chests, random bosses, random mechanics. While yes you will eventually see everything, I feel like it helps keep the experience feeling fresh and fun for much longer than a beautifully handcrafted linear experience which is only cool the first time and after that is just a chore on a checklist.

19:05 LALA SPOTTED!!! Also Amaurot probably right behind heros gauntlet.

i keep thinking about the classic Temple of Atal'Hakkar dungeon (also known as Sunken Temple). But your right deadmines even after 18 years still brings back my love of exploring this game

My sincere condolences to the desk and also congratulations for withstanding such a force of nature without even breaking a sweat.

Note that the people that made Everquest played MUDs - in particular Sojourn. That's probably part of where they got the large, sprawling dungeons there - the dungeons were massive, and there were some raid fights in Sojourn that could take literally DAYS to complete. The target demographic for MUDs were basically college students who had tons of time to burn.

really loved this preach, like a culmination of project MMO

The only comment I have is on the take of Everquest and what dungeons were. Using the time period in the video, and I only played from beta through the 2nd expansion Scars of Velious. Dungeons were not what you'd call dungeons today, especially in the base game. They began to evolve in Kunark and Velious into things where you did progress through them to an end goal. In the base game, dungeons were exp farming spots. You took your group to the zone and the first thing you did was shout, "Which camps are taken?". Each dungeon, mainly Lower Guk for 40+ leveling and gear farming but there were a few other less used options, and each "camp" would shout that they were occupied. If everything was occupied, you either left or made yourself an enemy by infringing on someone's camp. If someone was free you'd claim that and ask the group ask the group at the camp you wanted to let you know when they were going to leave so you could get it next. Then, your puller went out and got the mobs. And hopefully didn't "Steal" one from another camp as that caused legendary shouting matches. You'd spend hours camping once you got a good camp. In the posted video, back in 1998 those would have either been AFK people, or those without a group waiting for an opening. Group leaders kept a list of people who asked to join and would invite as opening would appear. And reputation certainly would get you moved up the list. But back then, you really didn't "run" a dungeon in the terminology we'd use today, but camped a spot for exp and loot that camp had. The first example of entering a zone to clear it to the boss and kill the boss would have been fear and hate plane, and those nightmares deserve their own video. FFXI actually ended up with a similar system for it's "dungeons". They were glorified camps where you would chain as many Very Tough to Extremely Tough mobs together in the attempt to keep an exp chain going. A mechanic FFXIV does have, in a very different form, but amusing none the less. Favorite dungeon. The Estate of Unrest. The legendary mob trains to zone murdering hundreds of people and taking hours to clear up as people zoned in and reaggroed the mobs standing there waiting to murder them was glorious.

You put more faith in your desk, standing on it like that, than I do with my Classic WoW HC groups.

A legacy video? Damn it’s only been like 6 years since the priest one lol

Deadmines, Shadowfang keep, and Blackrock Depths. I will never forget running these the first few times back in the early 2000s.

Dude this video is awesome. Love the format, love the production value, love the cheeky acting! Great video 😊 thank you!

getting into arguments on classic whenever I call Deadmines, VC, it helps people to get their pixelated grapes in twist. "Its called DM, nobody ever called it VC~!!"

I thought this series was long dead! Great for it to be back. Hopefully it doesn’t go and die again.

Deadmines was the first dungeon that popped into my head when I thought of a favorite. Such a good dungeon.

i think everyone's first dungeon experience has an effect on what their favourite dungeon is; on some level i too miss the downtime in dungeons, when we had to stop in Zul'Farrak for the healers and casters to recharge mana, and talked about recent movies, or what happened in this week's episode of Lost, but when i played WotLK heroics with people who run through the whole dungeon without stopping, which first annoyed me - i got used to that, and now i find it hard to revert back to that older mindset i had... things nowadays probably won't be as memorable as they used to be, like getting a certain piece of loot drop which you've been wanting to get for a long time, or 2 AM conversations while doing content, because we got used to "microwave content" - "i want it, and i want it now"

A good dungeon is a big sprawling thing with deep lore with the characters and terrain within that rewards you for making it through certain points. Multiple paths. Multiple options.

Great to see a classic Preach legacy video again.

Deadmines is the perfect starter dungeon, and Blackrock Depths is the perfect end game dungeon. Tons of quests, easily sectioned parts that you can pick to do one, some or all of it. Rob a vault, fight in the arena, save an alliance soldier and stop a plot by dragon. The list could go on but BRD is to me, perfect.

I thought I would never see another one of your legacy videos, how nice! Great job as always Preach!

Great video! I agree with wanting that sense of exploration and excited tension in dungeons. Fantastic acting and commitment as well xD

I absolutely agree with Deadmines, it's easily my favourite and holds the moment I got hooked on WoW itself. I started playing as a Night Elf druid and it was my first dungeon. I got grouped with a mage who had the Emberstone Staff and I just loved how it looked and absolutely needed it. It took me 3 runs before I got it and kept it until the staff that drops in SM (can't remember the name of it)

I love massive dungeons, as long as the time spent= rewards earned. I dont want to spend all day in a dungeon if im walking away with 1 item or a 1 level.

This. Is amaaaaaazing!! I had forgotten how much I adore the PG Legacy vids. Never has the history of gaming been so engaging. This is not 2nd-monitor-background-lullaby stuff to farm to for me. They make me want to grab some popcorn and settle in. Mini skits along the way are **mwah!** 👌🏻 Awesome that these are making a return. Suddenly hopeful again for a Legacy of the Shaman. (It's only been 117 years, I'm fine! Don't mind me over here in the corner "manifesting."👵😄 )

It’s been a long time since the last legacy video, well done. My favorite dungeon btw has to be shadow labyrinth

Really good video! I think the thing about classic MMOs like EQ, Ultima, Asheron's Call that you touched on a tad was great, but the key design to those MMOs were at their core/heart...they were designed to literally be Massive Multi-Player Online games, and to not be as narrow as more modern MMOs are today. The idea was to get as many people online together, and to "live out" in a seemingly open world where you could do anything you wanted, basically bring DnD paper RPGs to life. There was lore and quests, but used more like DnD campaigns that you can play out with friends, people being social, etc. Not each dungeon or raid being serialized to be apart of a overall story. Singular mini stories at most. The open world being random and difficult as the dungeons so the waiting room like design was to faciliate people have to band together old school RPG style because the journey was made to be difficult solo, as why else play a MMO if you can get somewhere on your own...etc. Just really old pure game design. I do miss it, and I don't at the same time. Like the video says, there's no real "one way" or "best way". In the end I think MMOs need to try and offer everything...play with different designs...make non-linear once or twice, linear the next, etc. Keep things moving, but that's just me. I think variety is the best spice of life, doesn't make each time pleasant, but it does make memories and things fresh

SFK (shadowfang keep) is just a joy of a dungeon, almost like a mini karazhan. i will NEVER get bored in there whetever i do mog/gold farm or low lvling/boosting. robe of arugal still to this day is my fav transmog piece.

for me BRD is the perfect dungeon. There is so much stuff to discover, so many secrets and sideways. It fits the theme of an undergound dwarven city so well. Ive ran it for 14 hours one saturday to farm the belt, healer trinket, breastplate and my hand of justice (only for a resto shaman to roll higher on it because he may switch specs one day) and still im not bored of the instance. Yes it is long and i understand why people often dont want to full run it. But it feels so much more alive than a dungeon where you are on rails and every sense of exploration is cut short by barricades or invisible walls. close second is classic scholomance. the feeling and visual environment of the place, especially for a passionate forsaken player makes me want to run it again right now.

Legacy!!!!!!!!! It's been years my man. But I've been patiently waiting.😮

return to kara, blackrock depths, and original stratholme are some of the best dungeons we ever had because in part of their size loved those dungeons

I don't see why we can't have both LFD and "explorable dungeons". Make a handful of dungeons not selectable in the LFD. They are large, winding, easy to get lost in, and you must create your own group for them. But the loot is REWARDING and perhaps there is a seperate currency tied to them. I'm a fan of the Classic Dungeons and would like to see something more along the lines of those in Retail

Speedrunning Guild Wars 2 dungeons is an experience that I will treasure for the rest of my life. It makes me sad that almost nobody will ever have that experience again.

Genuinely the best MMO content out there

Great video! I think GW2 nailed the 'perfect for most' with the Dragon Response missions. Now I know you probably don't think too fondly of those because the story in icebrood saga has you do 10101 of them in a row. However when taken in isolation, they are beautifully done: a 'dungeon-like' instance with a straight path, that SCALES - you can solo it , duo it, etc, up to 5 people. It has a normal mode, and a challenge mode. And they got the scaling down so well - it stays just on that challenging but not too challenging, with challenge mode being easy only for Teapot-style players. I wish they pursued that idea more (auto-scaling on the full spectrum from solo to 5+ players, with all stages being engaging). They do here and there though, and it's beautiful. A lot of people I think only care at the end to show off their MMO STUFF. And if I only have 1 friend or 0 friends atm, it's nice to still be able to explore and do content. Another thing, with that kind of auto-scaling, you could bring in really lore rich dungeon modes becauseeeee you could solo them if you're the only one who doesn't want to rush past the lore/puzzles. Would love to see that. Put a nice mount skin as reward for X runs, you golden.

The best dungeon design I've met thus far in a MMO is the way Dungeons & Dragons Online (DDO) do them. The bulk of XP in DDO is earned through dungeons. While you have explorations zones (that resemble the overworld in other games), the XP it provides is very incidental unless you go out of your way to 100% it, and the time investment is just not worthy it. However, most of the dungeon XP actually comes from doing optional stuff in the dungeon, not only clearing it. Throwing random numbers here, if completing the dungeon gives 20k XP, killing a sub boss that lives in a corner of the dungeon gives 5k XP. Breaking all crates in the dungeon gives 25% XP buff. Disarming all the traps gives another 15%. Sometimes the "good loot" is on side chests in addition to the final boss chest, so you want to do them for more chance at the good loot. The dungeons are also designed with solo play in mind, so that anything other than the highest difficulty (and in old content, even them) is possible to enter solo and explore at your own leisure. There are character builds focused in solo play, that have a bit of everything and still can be ok-ish at raiding. DDO is an underrated gem, and it's a shame it was dying a slow death until the devs took creative control and openly stated to the community that they are going slow because they are understaffed.

Shoutout to the real hero of this video, Mikes desk. Holy shit can that thing carry ME through a dungeon?

So great to see Legacy back. Loved the video. I have a love/hate relationship with Blackrock Depths. It's the first WoW dungeon I ever ran - aaand immediately died because it turned out you can't just walk into a dungeon and solo it. It's also the first dungeon I got lost in and someone from the group had to come back for me (super grateful I wasn't kicked lol). And it's the first dungeon I went back to solo-farm. Yes, I got lost and had to hearth out. Happy to report years later I can get just as lost running BRD as I did those first times and I hate it so much lmao. I also really like the thematics of it. Maraudon can drown in a pit of lava though. A curse upon whoever designed that dungeon.

My favorites of all time are probably Zul'Aman or Zul'Gurub on the WoW-side and any of the Shadowbringers dungeons on the FFXIV side, maybe Amaurot or Mt. Gulg taking the top spot for me. Great video, very enjoyable & brought back a lot of nostalgia!