This episode had me dying, bros. The space station. The ballistic gel fart. Charlie saying, “As a medical doctor, the problem starts right… here” (points at impact entrance.) 😂☠️
My hunch: the ATF deemed it armor piercing because the ammo was so cheap. The more they increase the cost of owning and shooting guns, the fewer people own and train with guns
Yes, they may do stupid appearing stuff, but the ATF is far from stupid. Their intention is to limit our access to firearms, and they are good at doing just that. “It’s armor piercing. Therefore we must take it away.” Their next statement will be “9mm will blow your lungs completely out of your body, so we must ban it.”
"A lot of ATF agents have wives who have bulls." "Studies have shown that 100% of ATF agents have wives who have boyfriends and this is consistent with previous dad advice." I'm pleased to see that Garand Thumb is also venturing into becoming a news outlet, since this is actually factual and accurate reporting.
Studies also proven that the average AFT agent is that one kid back in the playground who bitch and cry when playing Tag. You're it. That kid constantly change the rules when he/she can't catch up with the other kids. He/she will lie to the custodian or any staff on the playground and get everybody in trouble.
Nope. ATF agents are just like everyone else and just doing a job. Why vilify them? Most of them are shooters just like you. I hate getting a parking ticket. Should I vilify the meter maids? No they are just doing here job. Don't like a law or regulation? Then simply work to get it changed and or go to court. - Now were you shooting a 7N6, 7N6M or 7N10 in the testing? I tend to agree that the 7N6 is not really an armor penetrating round as the core is just mild steal. It could be argued it is more eco-friendly hehe. However, the 7N6M and the 7N10 do have penetrators made of harder material. The devil is in the details as the 7N6M were being offered as the 7N6. Is the 7N6M an armor penetrator? That I don't know. I do know that the 7N10 was purposedly modified to help defeat armor.
@@edl653 i think there is some humor amidst this political commentary. I don't believe it has ever been about the targeting of individual employees. However, your argument isnt completely solid either... As you could argue that soliders and agents in nazi Germany were also just doing a job. And to a great extent that is true.. albeit, in nazi Germany one would be labeled a traitor if one didnt work for the great cause.. however a public employee in the free world provably has a choice.
GT: "A good curve is what you wanna have because it allows it to get into different parts of the body." Dr Charlie: "I'm very curved as well." I died with that line. Mike, your production values are through the roof with the banter (is it improv or scripted?) and timing of the edits. I loved your vids before, but now me love you long time!!
@@boatwreks sits there and tosses a penetrator back and forth in his hands rather then set it down on the wood. Like even if he is acting stupid is so fucking cringe.
I met Charlie one time, he was at a resturaunt, i couldnt decide if he was a serial killer or just really pissed his chicken nuggets took 20mins to cook. Anywho, Love to see him more in this series.
Charlie is that one guy that doesn’t say much but when he speaks you pay extra special attention to what he says. Sometimes it’s simpleton wisdom, sometimes it’s mind blowing wisdom, but it’s always wisdom.
Its called the 'poison bullet' because people with seemingly minor or healing wounds, got sick and lost limbs or died, because they didn't understand that it left fragments in the wound.
It's from crappy field medicine common in 3rd world countries. Yes the fragmentation is part of it. But the thing also creates crazy wound channels (note plural) and couple that with the fragmentation & need to debride dead tissue it's not going to be a good outcome.
....... most gunshots end up with fragments being left in the wound, because the damage from surgery to retrieve them would be worse than just leaving the fragments. I have something to tell you tho; the massive amount of heat that gets transferred to a bullet when it's fired out of the barrel, is more than enough to kill any viruses and bacteria that might have been on the projectile. So when you get hit with a bullet, it's completely sterile, assuming it wasn't a ricochet that hit some cow shit or something.
@@1xBossupWhat’s wrong with being dependent on medicine? Like food, H2O, vitamins & minerals, medicine is something we depend on for……wait for it…… *LIFE*
Charlie is such a treasure trove of knowledge and perspective! I appreciate that he uses statistics to back up his viewpoint! “100% of ATF agents wives have boyfriends.”
Man, it broke my heart when they banned the 7n6. I just payed more for .22lr than I was paying for 7n6 before the ban. I am convinced that the intent was to dry up the supply of cheap, effective ammo.
That's always the intent, and why the government always goes after cheap weapons and ammo. Gun control is rarely little more than normal people control in practice.
Yeah, that was the entire point. They tried to ban M855 6 months later and got so much backlash they revoked that ban. We'll never see 7n6 imported legally again though, well not without some very spicy politics.
@@jonwinfield9193 that was a bit of "adding insult to injury" that all the folks writing their Congresspersons to save the M855 didn't GAF about the much nicer 7n6.
I love how consistently inconsistent the 5.45 is and I wonder if it was designed to perform this way because all these strange ballistics would cause HORRIFIC wounds
Yes it was designed to do that AFAIK, I have an AK shooter manual written by some old Spetznaz instructor and he wrote about the 5.45 ballistics and the horrifying wounds it caused in Afghanistan. Also, not totally relevant but apparently they would also boil their ammunition before trading it to the locals so that it wouldn't fire when the Mujahadeen eventually got it
Still not as horrifying as 5.56 which will explosively fragment in addition to yawing with significantly more energy that gets fully dispersed unlike 5.45 that stays together and exits. Idk why so many people attribute these nonsensical magical claims about Russian weapons haha. There's a reason the Russians haphazardly copied the 5.56 so quick, and made a less effective round in the process.
11:47 "The Communists actually designed this round to penetrate Level 3 Innocent Farmer" I almost fucking died laughing holy shit the delivery is perfect
Gotta love Charlie and his commentary. 100% solid gold material, right there. Thanks for the content, boys. I hope everybody in this community is having a good one out there. 🤙🏾
"I'm very curved as well.." - Charlie 2022 "The communists actually designed this round to penetrate level 3 innocent farmer" Charlie - 2022 This dude has me dying
@@domaxltv Communists have killed way more Communists than we have, buddy. We may be civilian murder enthusiasts, but the Russians and Chinese are legitimate masters.
Funnily enough, 7N6 was never considered as an armor-piercing round. Rumor is it's utterly useless against body armor. Standard 7.62 (57-N-231) round had a lot more penetration than 7N6. This issue, however, was fixed in 7N10.
Yes. Since 1992, the standard cartridge has been 7n10. In 1994, he was replaced by 7n10m. 7n6 has not been produced for a long time, only Soviet stocks.
The BATF made an ass of themselves saying 7n6 is AP I have a plate of armor that M855 WILL penetrate...but 7N6 will NOT...why does the BATF give M855 a pass but not 7N6?...M855 is armor piercing with a hardened penetrator...why is it legal?
This episode had me dying laughing and it is clear to see that Charlie is a lot more intelligent than most ATF agents. Remember you don't need a 100 magazine clip in your machine gun and a 9 mm bullet will blow your lung out your chest.
"...like Canada or college." OH MY GOSH MY SIDES! I think I lost my voice a bit from laughing. This was an awesome episode, glad for all of your contributions
The round yeeting into the space station, and the look on Dr. Garandthumb’s fave when Charlie started talking about bulls. I laughed at this video so hard I couldn’t breathe!
I like how it would absolutely cavitate a soldier's entire torso before going ballistic to take out their rear artillery. Truly a speed runner's caliber
the core is not hardened. 7n6 has a hardened core, but it not ap yet. 7n22 (with black head) is solid, hardened and twice i saw it coming clean trough both front and back plates (dude survived, but it was rough). I cannot tell you anything about category of plates, as this was supplied by the volunteers (who buy everything everywhere, where it can be purchased) and mine for example was of another manyfacturer, purchased by different person.
@@jameshawkins8817 a lot of ppl just don't get that ussr was aiming for a total war, so they did everything to make things work on the cheap way))) some stuff was genious, but most just aimed to be produced at the highest quantities by the least skillest people. that's why two AK-74 you disassemble (i did, i know) would have so high tolerances and even different coloration, that you can see on some parts, that they come from different plants, made on different equipment, out of sligtly different metal. but it shoots, which is better than nothing in fact in my hometown we had a factory, that produced umbrellas (as well as huge variety of other things, including one of the first soviet calculators) and they had this emergency plan of how they will in less than 7 days switch to weapon production as ak can be made even at home if you have the proper pair of hands and tools
I love how the entire time Charlie had a tacticool stick holstered and it was never brought up. Has that 'Giving your younger brother the broken controller so he feels included' energy.
This episode has made my top 3 FAVORITE Garand Thumb videos!!! The smoothness and edits of you and Charlie is Hollywood level.. I laughed, I cried, I learned something new... Thank you Dr Garand Thumb, I am forever grateful of your decision to drop out of Medical school.... and of course thanks to Charlie for not getting thrown in a group home for the challenged...
Charlie is really coming into his own. In the first videos he would say some quirky things and they were interesting for sure. But with a few months practice he's really playing the character well and coming out with some absolute gems. Really glad you kept him on. Our boy Charlie has really grown.
The brilliance in the ballistics of this round in conjunction with Russian military marksmanship doctrine is wild. They teach you to aim for the belt buckle, and then this mad lad round makes a damn near 90 degree turn upwards inside your body. So not only are you getting gut shot, but the round is more than likely going to find it's way into your vitals as well. If you're not wearing armor you're double fucked against this round.
@@Cmoth040 they aim low because they hit high up to 300 meters where the bullet flattens out so the aim for the belt buckle and hit center mass if they aimed for the face they would hit head shots which are not practical in battle
I love how you used the 'Soviet March' for your background music ... a soundtrack composed by a British musician, designed for an American game, to be played by North Americans and Europeans. It's as Russian as an Alabama lightning bug, haha. Sounds friggin' amazing every time though!
I was always told that either Remington or Winchester was the main people that went to the ATF to get the 7n6 banned because it was so cheap it was cutting into their ammo sales. I’m mean you could even buy AR uppers chambered in 5.45 because it was so cheap. 😢
@@alexisXcore93 I remember seeing smith and Wesson M&P AR chambered in 5.45 and thought that would be fun. I opted for the saiga 74 because it was like 600 cheaper at the time. Now the roles have reversed, the days of $300 AK’s are long gone.
That wouldn't surprise me. It obviously was not banned because it was an actual armor piercing round and they were worried about that. Seems like "follow the money" can be pretty good advice many times.
I’ve learned more from Dr Garandthumb and Dr Charlie than I ever did from Bill Nye as a kid. Also nice to have my suspicion confirmed by data about communists and the ATF. “Level 3 innocent farmers” had me dying 🤣
Look up "Bill Nye on Gender circa 1990s" and see how far they are literally going backwards on science to be politically correct. On his newest netflix just youtube " Bill Nye On Sexuality and Gender Spectrum" ill admit science constantly changes with new breathroughs, But to question Male and Female only in the mammalian human species is retarded, My male dog never tried to get pregnant. This is what happens when the patients start running the asylum.
“One of the biggest threats that I believe ATFs saw on this round is they were worried that people would take it out hunting their bulls because a lot of ATF agents have bulls or their wives have bulls” “That’s…. Words” Thank you for the input Charlie 😂
The shop I was working in in early '00s wound with a pallet of this because the owner's son didn't know the difference between 47 & 74 ammo. When it came in, the owner went absolutely bat crap crazy on his son. We wound up moving the pallet from our main store to the range/store and selling it for $75 per *crate*. I look back and wish I'd bought the whole pallet.
It's the air pocket in the nose of the round that makes it YAW like a mofo. As soon as the 7n6 bullet strikes an object more dense than air that airpocket in the nose changes the center of gravity for the bullet. This is what causes the tremendous destabilization and yawning on impact.
been 3d printing my own accessories for as long as i've had the firearm acquisition license (canada) and it'd still be a challenge to 3d-print anything good. Without part kits, you have to be passionate about making your own, being willing to go through a multidimensional revision process, and be comfortable sacrificing reliability/function to do so. It's a last resort, b/c when you really want a firearm is usually when you need it to be reliable
Just watched some Slow Mo guys and cant stop but smurk at the "We have a fast camera here, shooting 1,600FPS" when i just watched 1.75million FPS of lightning. Anyway good video as always
This was a great video! I was dying when the first round flew out the top and your cut scene of the satellite exploding was priceless 🤣 Charlie was hilarious as well great addition to the video
Hell, what about the month or so (in 2008-2009?) when Arsenal was selling Saiga SGL-21`s (modern factory Russian AK's) for friggin $500...I feel your sickness.
@@oskar6661 yep, and $500 was a fairly "expensive" AK back then. I bought an SAR-2 and a WASR-10 for $200 a piece in '04 or '05. I should've bought a hundred of them, along with a bunch more ~$150 SKS's. I wish I knew then what I know now. 😔
I wasn’t expecting the fart and I actually spat out what I was eating when laughing! Top episode absolutely love the comedy and space shot too! 👍👍👍⭐️⭐️⭐️
Probably one of my favorite episodes! the wild card commentary, the editing, ridiculing the ATF.. it's basically perfect.. other than grand thumb can't shoot the broad side of a barn. lol keep 'em guessing boys
7N6 terminal ballistics were so weird at the time of adoption that it turned into an urban legend of "bullets with displaced center of gravity" that were "designed to tumble unpredictably through the entire body and leave no possibility of recovery from the wound". In fact, it was just wack bullet design that gave it serious soft barrier deflection issues and delayed the adoption of 5.45 by everyone except the Soviet Army. This is actually the reason we still have new-manufacture and even new(ish) design 7.62*39 weapons today. 5.45 was supposed to entirely supersede it.
Yeah idk how people think it’s good lol I didn’t see much fragmentation compared to the m855 especially considering the 7n6 just fucking yeeted itself into oblivion why m855 retained more energy for sure
@@squidy4082 5.56 is generally superior when it comes to flesh damage. Especially M193, which is substantially more deadly than *any* 5.45 rounds. M193 will turn your insides into shreds.
@@Mkvine It's not meant to do any of those things. It's meant to punch through light cover and flak vests similarly to 7.62*39 but with ~double the rounds per soldier's loadout, and that's about it. Terminal ballistics is an afterthought in modern military cartridges. It's still plenty deadly, as both sides of the Chechen Wars quickly found out. A typical 3-rd burst out of an AK-74 will all land on the body, where it would either rupture an organ with that supersonic wound cavity you can see in the gels, and\or hit a bone and yaw in an unpredictable direction, often traveling a considerable distance. It DID earn a reputation of being purposely designed for maximum wounding, similar to the infamous "dum-dum" rounds of Anglo-Boer war. Now, issuing AKSUs loaded with it as police duty guns was a characteristic 90s Russia stopgap measure that introduced almost as many problems as it solved. But hey, the 90s were wild like that.
This "poison bullet" is capable of doing significant damage even when fired from further away. The 5.56 suffers diminished velocity out of shorter barrels and longer distance. When that happens, it loses the ability to fragment and tends to punch a small hole in the target and causes little damage. I also imagine that a surgeon is going to have an easier time locating and removing a bullet that travels a straight path compared to one that curves after hitting the body.
M193 more than makes up for what m855 lacks out of lesser sized barrels. True M193 can easily leave 16" barrels at 3100 fps and is surprisingly accurate. Absolutely chews up flesh and will fragment and yaw while creating a larger permanent wound cavity. It's downfall? Honestly not much for civilians standards but for a duty round not so much due to not doing so hot through barriers. That's where bonded bullets come in and absolutely shine. Both federal & Speer have bonded softpoints that perform amazing through all barriers and will perform from 1750fps all the way up to 3500, "if someone feels the need to pull the bullet and load to their own 556 pressures", leaving the round able to perform from a few feet out to 600 yards... It's downfall? Damn things are exspensive as hell....
@Luke Koenig It is void of toxic chemicals that would be considered by most as a poison. It causes impressive ballistic damage that results in fatalities at a higher rate than expected for the size of that bullet.
@@cgsimons1187 I think the "poison bullet" designation comes from a single source, Marco Vorobiev who served with the Red Army in Afghanistan. He also said the round was called the "wasp". Not casting shade on Mr. V, but no independent source has ever confirmed this. Everyone that says this is just repeating what Marco wrote.
Interesting yugoslavia did not use 5.45. It must be imported after the wars back in 1991 started. Probably on the side which didn't have access to the yugoslav army warehouses, that was all nations in yugoslavia apart of the Serbs and Montenegrins which took yugoslav army warehouses for themself
@@godzilla1463 i presume yugoslavia received it only in small numbers as a similar example, vietnam after the war stucked with both the 7.62 from soviet union & china, and the 5.56 from USA & RVN so we never had a need for the 5.45 all the AK-74 in storage were simply gifted from the soviet union later on, including the 5.45 ammo
I don’t know why but the quotes from these videos somehow get better every video. Congrats on the family progress mr thumb, and congrats to the rest of the crew on making some quality RU-vid content- enjoy it a lot
Bringing Charlie onto the show was what the show needed. He's the Bubbles to your Ricky. Edit: To be honest it's just the perfect equation. Your character + his character + brilliant editing = ridiculous ab workout with a bit of knowledge
Oh man, his intro video always makes me laugh. Best one he's had and I hope it stays forever. Also the editing is hilarious. The acting and everything is pure gold.
I wish you guys had the time to make a new video daily. Priceless videos. Damn fine team. No one puts together more informative videos while throwing in brilliant humor. Most of us are wishing our wives or girlfriends were as interesting. Keep up the great work guys.
00:47 Smash Garand Thumb 02:14 It's Bussin! 03:52 Blow THEM UP! 04:45 Very Curved As Well 04:50 That Smack Tho 05:08 Houston We Have Lift Off 05:38 As a Medical Doctor 05:58 FART! 06:40 Small ones matter too 06:53 Penetration Yes? 07:15 It Came Apart. 08:01 STARLINK 08:12 Comrade? 08:27 BOOM! 08:54 Yea IDK Chief 09:03 Boom AGAIN! 10:28 Ah yes Mild Penetration 10:51 Disband the ATF. 11:10-11:25 ATF Wifes Bulls 11:47 Damn Commies 12:20 Bulls! 12:51 Cucked
People who know nothing about guns will see illogical bans like this and praise them because they seem like they do something without doing anything. It just encourages the ATF to have stupid laws like this and the SBR vs. Pistol law doing jack against gun crime yet being a massive hinderence to gun owners, but there's so much spite against the gun community from non-gun owners that even if they see these laws for what they are they wouldn't care.
I caught Charlie braking character and smiling a little around the 8:00 min mark. He does such a good job not Breaking character. Love what you guys do here. Keep the channel going!
Correction: the M193 cartridge was the one used in vietnam, M855 came much later. The M193 bullet @3000fps out of the M16's 20" barrel tumbled and actually fragmented in two pieces at the canelure causing one hell of a wound track. The original "poison bullet."
Yup, when I seen he said the M855 was time period correct I did a bit of an eye roll. The M855 was nearly a decade later but is still a decent performer. But on soft targets M193 is usually much better at fragmenting and does it more consistently. And as a poster below says it goes 3250fps out of the 20", while the M855 does around 3100fps. The M193 fragments very well down to 2800fps, and moderately between 2500-2800fps.
And the fragmentation was a lot more then two pieces. And with the original 1/14 twist M16s used very early in the war the bullet also tended to yaw like this round while still fragmenting and caused even more damage then the later 1/12 twist. Reason being the bullet was barely stable so when it hit soft tissue it tended to yaw. This twist was later replaced by the 1/12 due to extreme cold weather testing where the 1/14 didn't stabilize the M193. I do not believe there is any difference or very moderate difference between a 1/7 and 1/12 twist with the M193 since they both stabilize it very well. Only when the bullet is on the edge will it offer these characteristics. I imagine a 62gr lead bullet would do the same in 1/12 and a 75gr in 1/9 and so forth but have never seen anyone test this.
Some of the best videos from garand thumb. He is the only channel I would pay a subscription for to see bill nye the science guy stuff and battle drills, man tracking etc
I just about lost my lunch when right at the end he made the statement about communist countries and then named Canada first. Brother you said a mouthful and a truer statement was never uttered. Crime might not pay but it can make you a prime minister. p.s. On average how many takes does it take you to say all that with a straight face? You guys are awesome. 👍👍👍👍
The second Charlie went for the plate, felt it for a second and Dr. Garand Thumb immediately said “stop it!” And Charlie was like “that’s huge!”😂 happy Father’s Day y’all.
7N6 has a very specific "anvil&hammer" composition, separated by a tiny air bubble. Once "anvil" (the nose)hits the target, it's immediatelly slapped on its ass by the heavy steel core and it just yaws in any direction it wants. it worked well vs unarmored target, but in body armor reality it sucks. checked vs steel plates, it's better that 7.62, but it doesn't outperform it that much. if you'll check, every AK AP round has monolitic core(7N10 and AP 7N22 for example), in fact when it comes to the performance you want something like M855, because it delivers huge load of energy (which makes projectile to break down). that breakdown was the reasoning when defending "inhumane 7n6 bullets" - "our bullets yaw and tumble, their bullets fragment inside the body, both are inhumane, both are bad, so we're even". P.S. once caught that mfcker with a strike plate. felt like a brick. it stuck there in rubber, so I consider I'm lucky as they ricochetting wildly, but in reality there's not much it can do with the proper armor, just like good old 7.62, in fact the yawing itself doesn't make that huge difference, because human body, unless penetrated in vertical plane, is "too thin" to cause that nice curving you show with ballistic gel. wounds are identical, treatment identical, survival chances identical, only difference is the speed.
@@termiterasin Not sure if you're inferring that he's wrong or if you're agreeing with him and just pointing out that it's funny, but they go over it in the video. It doesn't pen very well if it all, despite it's reasoning for being banned.
@@termiterasin it's a good ammo, but not for AP purposes, so we picked up their mags (7N22 or loaded with mix 2x 7N6 and 7N22) with proper ap ammo and used it instead. Back in the march, I didn't had bruises, like some dudes in soft armor sported, but the arm felt pretty sore. There are a b-s legends going around how this bullet hits you at the stomach and goes out ot your neck, but bullsht is a bullsht as nothing like this happened in over 50 cases (civilian and military) our medics pulled out of the field. I like ak74, but american lore of greatness of ak(s) are so much overrated. It simple, it's reliable, it's relatively cheap, but it is not the legendary weapon you claim it to be. I would prefer to get AR-15-family rifle or FN FNC, which shoots same 5.54 (Belgium transferring some of old stocks to us, tnx Belgium, we love U). Or would go for something 7.62x51 as it has better ballisitcs than AK/AKM (but it kicks damn hard). But that fancy weaponry actually goes a lot to the foreign volunteers in the first place, because we're good enough for it if we buy it ourselves :)
@@jameshawkins8817 proper CAT (we had huge issues as volunteers were buying everything including crap, because govmn for some reason didn't give a sh@t before it became too late; result: we threw out a box of "CAT's" because the plastic was garbage and cracked upon application), then the night vision (anything commercially available would do), commercial drones (not toys, but actual commercial drones - DJI Mavic 2/3, Parrot ANAFI,Autel EVO), boots & shoes (prices nearly trippled since Jan) and that's just a top of the list. At this point it is easier to tell what we don't need. If you or your friend making donations, you can do it trough savelife.in.ua/en/ Or trough personal friends and ppl u know in here, because misuse and theft are becoming common (last month they caught two a-holes selling donated equipment, supplies and uniforms worth ~ 200 000 usd), so be careful.
You guys are great together. One of my favorite videos. Great video and as always, appreciate the knowledge and now the laughter. Can’t wait for the next video !!!
You guys crack me up. Especially the part about the ATF wives Bulls. I have an AK 74 clone, and like you back in the day I bought many tins of 1080 rounds same ammo. I don't shoot it that often so I don't think I'm going to run out of ammo anytime soon.
