Here is my philosophy and approach to shooting Leica cameras contrasted with my experiences with modern mirrorless or DSLR systems from Sony, Canon, Fuji, Nikon, etc. Me: dave.online verygoodpreset... / daveherring
I got my Leica Q2 and you're right, I did my best street work in NY city since I was able to concentrate on my surroundings more. It's such a pleasure using the camera that it's taking me to a different direction with my art.
THIS is one of the main reasons why I like to shoot on the M7 for film. It’s the only M film camera that will auto select a shutter speed for a given aperture and ISO of film. Such an underrated and under respected Leica film camera always over shadowed by the M6. When I shoot my M11 I used auto ISO a lot. I just set the maximum ISO to an ISO I know that won’t be ruining the picture so that way you’re always safe. Great video Dave!
Leica M7 is cool with its aperture priority and all, but its full of electronics that will break one day and the camera will become a worthless brick. Leica M6 and older models are all mechanical and are pretty much eternal
Really helpful. I am in the process of dumping ALL my canon equipment (R5 + 7 lenses +++) and have just ordered a Q3 for all the reasons in your video. Thanks again.
Been on the road for 32 days now photographing everything! I’ve shot over 21,000 images between my Fuji 100s, 50r medium format and my Leica Q2. More than half my images are on the Leica!! I love my Q2. As soon as I get home I’m getting a Q2 Monochom!
I originally had a Q2 which I loved but it proved as a gateway to the M11. I enjoy both cameras for different reasons. Thanks for this video, it's a rational look and a lot of what you're saying is true. It's not a cheap camera system but the shots I've got felt and are so much more rewarding.
You shoot your M11 the same way I do with my Q2. Mostly manual aperture, auto shutter and auto ISO. The only difference between the two cameras is the rangefinder experience. This is why they say the Q system is the gateway to the M system and why I'm more likely to upgrade to an M rather than a Q3.
A really thoughtful video. I have wanted/and am pondering an M system camera, however I recently bought an A7R5 and after using it about 3 months, including a trip to 3 safari camps in East Africa, I have come to your conclusion...Damn, the camera is doing all the work. For everything except wildlife photography, I have made an effort to simplify my process with the Sony. I know that at this point in my life (75), I want that Leica experience more than ever. I'm not a Pro, won't be, but I'm at the point in life (ie got the bucks and time) with a good 65 years of taking pictures, I'm going for it one day soon! BTW, I'm from WA State (North Cascades) and loved your video of the Olympic Peninsula which is one of my favorite places along with the North Cascades. Have a great upcoming holiday. B
I’m returning to photography at 49. Treated myself to an M10-P. Set auto ISO, auto shutter with min shutter speed at 1/60 sec and use the thumb dial for exposure compensation. I find it allows me to barely think about the camera and concentrate on what’s happening in front of me. Great Video! I might try setting ISO manually and see how it goes.
I just bought a Leica M11-P coming from a Fujifilm system. Thank you for the tips. There had been some times where I thought that I had to get used to the camera instead of trying to make things easier for me, it's refreshing to know I wasn't the only one going through "Change of air" struggle
Shooting Leica M film and digital since 2015. I still use my Sony A7R (version 1!) in parallel situation-dependent. I personally don't get all this feeling thingy regarding usage of Leica cameras. All cameras no matter of brand are tools for me - some fit a specific shooting scenario better than others. I don't mind to have electronic options - most I simply don't use, but I rather have options than not to have them. I use Leica because I like the compactness and small lenses. I personally don't care about the simplicity approach Leica markets. For example I still prefer the M 240 series which has video even I rarely use it. IMO it doesn't hurt to have it - why not? I shoot manual anyway with every camera. I shoot Hasselblad, Mamiya, Canon all in parallel depending on need. Each tool has their pros and cons - Leica is special to me for its compactness and backwards compatibility to use newer and older M lenses including LTM.
So, here's the thing. Started shooting 1972, Tri-X/darkroom like everyone else. Then to digital when that began. Now shooting M 11 mono. I am now looking at the world again as I used to many years ago as a fully manual B&W analog. What an inspiring joyous experience.
Hi Dave, So far I’ve only shot my m10 100% manually. I’m going to try putting the shutter on automatic, and set my f-stop and ISO manually like you are doing. Makes allot of sense, except in low light, or fast action. I love the rangefinder experience (even 100% manual). And, paired with the 35mm Summilux f1.4, it’s so rewarding. It’s like painting with light. Thank you for sharing.
I love this way of shooting. After shooting with the Canon R5 for years, I bought the fuji X-Pro 3. I started using auto iso and auto shutter speed and loved the experience. The old school range finder body with the option for an optical viewfinder helps re spark that passion for composition and freed my mind of the sometimes mundane technical side of photography.
I love the intro adage of this video so much! It's why I've fallen in love with the Canon RP because it's such an imperfect little test-run mirrorless Canon. I get weird stuff in photos and love the challenge of getting as good with my settings as I can. I definitely feel the stark difference in how the newer R10 operates.
Great perspective! I’m mostly a video guy with Canon and Sony. Got a Leica Q2 to be more intentional with photography. The experience is wonderful and challenging. It reminds me of learning on my dad’s Konica Autoreflex. I am curious about bumping up to M system in retirement. Because all my work obligations would be gone - I’d only be using it for my own purposes. Simplicity works. Always.
Thanks for sharing! I started my Leica journey for person stuff and kept shooting Sony for professional stuff. Now all my professional photography work is Leica, but Sony for video still. Watching for that SL3 to drop in 2024!
Good points. I use a Leica SL with autofocus and aperture priority when I am out trying to document things, an activity for me where the end result is a good sharp photo of the subject. For my fun and creativity I use the M system where I do all the work and feel creative and the end result is about having fun in being creative
Thank you, Dave, for this video on the M11. I just sold 50 years of Olympus and Nikon cameras, including the new Z9, Z8, and OM1 for the Leica system……..just for the reasons you explained in this video. At my age of 77 yrs, the new camera menus were simply too complicated for me. With any of the Leica products, SL2, M22,…even my CL, the menus is very, very simple. Now I really just pick up the camera and do what you just explained……..it really is just that simple. Again, thanks.
Great video! Your journey seems to mirror mine. I worked my way up to the Sony A1, but had the same "problems". The camera did all the work. I could shoot a "movie" at 30 fps/50MP and just pick the "perfect" shot and crop the hell out of it. Not fun at all. With the SL and M, shooting was fun again. And less work afterwards. Never wanted to hear it, but I spent hours tweaking my Sony RAWs in post, but I just love the output of the Leicas. Much less work!
Almost the same journey here. Nikon FE film camera -> Sony A73 -> Q2 and M3 + MP film -> M10D. I use mainly my M10D (with auto ISO) and MP now. Back to basics, I feel.
Thanks, as a new M11-P owner I’m still learning how I want to best use the camera. My first impression is it begs you to pick it up, it seems to have some hidden magical power that brings me back to my youth. One technical question I have for you is, I’ve read the camera works better with Capture One over Lightroom, have you experimented with both? I’d love to see you do a comparison video of the same photos developed in different programs.
@Ullr-Zero-Kelvin thanks for sharing! I’d say Lr and C1 are just different workflows to get to the same result. I think they both have strengths and weaknesses.
I continue to defer purchasing a Leica. I currently shoot Sony (A7R5 as an enthusiast) and hardly use the full extent of the feature set. I can simplify just like a Leica. I shoot manual focus, Ap priority, ISO 100 in good light. Manual focus slows me down to focus. When I photography my dogs or family, switching to Auto ensures I don't miss the details. Best of both worlds. Do I need to spend $11,000 on an M and lense? I don't know. I keep punting.
You can definitely shoot the same way, but you won't get that rangefinder experience with an EVF, and a big part of Leica is the rangefinder experience.
Never spend money for a brand new Leica - Leica's biggest advantage is the size of its used gear market! No need to have the latest M series camera. Especially since the M11 is known to have some faults. The M10-R on the other hand is really a great one to get. Best price/quality ratio is currently the M240 series of M cameras. The value of Leica M is all in the rangefinder system (and price is determined mostly by the pushed luxury brand name). If you don't like or need rangefinder focusing, you are better off with any other mirrorless camera from any other brand. I personally like to use OVF-based rangefinder focusing in some situations, in others I prefer EVF. One reason why I am using Leica M and Sony E-mount in parallel.
Sony gear was traded for Leica in August. Will never return. Great to hear you say the words "computer with a lens". That is exactly how I summarize it. With "modern" camera, the photographer programs the camera to take the image. I actually think it is more work to deal with the camera and still create amazing art. You still have to find the composition. Of course, the programmed camera also does a lot of work. With the Leica M, you can focus on the composition because the camera is just about focus and exposure triangle. And it is actually fun to take images. Glass isn't bad either, and it is small. Thanks Dave of reading my mind !
Thanks for sharing. I still have some Sony gear, but and probably will for a bit longer as my entire video rig is built around Sony. My eyes are on the SL system, though.
This is really funny timing because I arrived at exactly the same conclusion last week when I was photographing with my M in New York. I turned the shutter to automatic and suddenly my life got considerably better. :-)
I was a Sony A7riii shooter myself. I had almost all lenses at the time. I changed to Q2 and now M11 with a couple of lenses and I’m as happy as ever. Though will never let the a7riii + 24mm GM go 😅
I've been using the original method you described on all my cameras for decades now. Generally my shutter stays at 250 and my aperture is almost always wide open on my Leica. Sometimes it isn't on my Nikon. But I make exposure adjustments on the fly for every single image. Takes me only a second or two and works great for me. Nothing is set to auto on any of my cameras (except for autofocus on my Nikons).
Interesting video. My approach with my M11 is auto ISO with manual shutter speed and aperture. I am 78 years old, and handholding a camera steady for 1/15th second is no longer in the cards for me. I used to be one of those "ISO 100" bigots when shooting tripod-supported landscapes, but the modern sensors have so much dynamic range that it makes more sense for me to control shutter speed and aperture and let the sensor do its thing. I do use exposure compensation, but the vast majority of my shooting is at either 0.0 or -0.3. I do enjoy periodically going out and shooting "full monty" manual - reminiscent.of my M2 days when I did pretty much everything outdoors Sunny 16.
thanks for the great ideas you shared here real FFTT for me, thanks so much. i do similar things on my street photography with the ricoh grIII, not my main style of photograph but sure your video will make me consider to do more.
I agree with you 100%. I have a Sony A7RV as well and feel the ease of the Leica system to be very refeshing. I have an M11 and M6. I usually carry both and the shooting experience is great.
I guess that’s why there is renewed interest in cameras like the Canon 5D classic and such. You have to use a lot more direct input in terms of exposure. Limited dynamic range, no auto ISO etc. I guess it takes it back to a more pure, simple experience. Great video; thankyou!
Thanks for the comment! Yes I think people want to be artists and not technicians and unfortunately, newer cameras are more technical than ever. Great for fast paced work, not so great for art.
I am still sometimes using my Canon 5D MkII for situations where I need AF or speedlite flash capability. I am seeing online the hype for the original 5D - main reason is that influencers push it online. There is nothing super special about it. It was and is a great camera indeed but not worse or better than comparable FF cameras from this time.
More and more often I take my manual Voigtländer to my digital camera. This gives me the aperturering exactly where I want it and, of course, manual focussing. I've lost a few opportunities as a result, but I'm getting better again and it's a challenge to capture the moment. Some people might say turn off the autofocus, but none of the AF lenses I know can credibly imitate manual focussing with the artificial transfer of the rotary movement to a stepper motor.
@@davidherring I also love shooting with my M6, but if you want good results on film, you need a good lab at the end of the process and the price is even more expensive than the original film.
Great video and really agree on every point you mentioned. My photography journey is still young, but after several brand I ended up with the Leica Q system (Q3) and that was the gateway to the M system and therefore got a M9, since I couldn't justify the price of a M10 or M11 in parallel with the Q3 :D The M9 really shows me every weakness of my photography - instant feedback and everything is on me. The Q3 allows a lot more flexibility for "errors", including composition and high ISO, thx to that amazing 60MP sensor from the M11 :)
I just want to know what stops you from shooting any other camera in this way? All of the modern cameras have auto settings, just like the Leica, so...
Though most people don't just put manual glass on more modern cameras. So it's always apples to oranges. I'm on an A7C with adapted Leica glass. It's small and simple. Not a single channel talks about that setup. @@davidherring
That’s the way I shoot my Sony cameras. I have 3 custom shooting modes set up . I’ll use those or I will use manual with auto iso. I will also manual for long exposure or tripod work. The philosophy is no different.
Leica Schmeica. After shooting a medium format camera from 1959 to 1968, I was given a range finder Minolta. I couldn't wait to get rid of that range finder crap and get a slr. In 1969 got a Pentax and now I have 5 nikon FILM bodies and 3 digital. But I have other slr's, a mamiya 645 pro tl and an RB67. Want to go back to basics. I do have one non slr, a yashica tlr. You couldn't pay me to use a range finder and I prefer film over sterile digital images. Now, there is one thing about Leica that just might get me to buy a nikon mirrorless... Leica glass. In the mean time, my classic zeiss glass is darn close and they had a similar philosophy. Have a voigtlander lens that is pretty amazing on both my digital and film nikons. As for ability to use a camera in ANY way, my f6 has fast auto focus, dead on matrix metering, 6 fps film advance. aperture or manual modes. I can turn off all the auto stuff and go fully manual and use all my lenses with an aperture ring turning the ring. I can go full manual if I want that experience or need to override the meter. I have a full compliment of zeiss, voightlander and 1995 nikon glass. As Ernst Hass said, leica schmeica. But I would qualify it for the glass which have learned can be modified to a nikon mount. Hmm, best of both worlds? Leica glass, nikon f6 body? Who says there is no film god.
In bay area too man, and am shooting Sony A7R3 still (such a great camera - don't want to upgrade), and recently got the Q3 also... so similar path. There is a funny subtlety in what you are saying... but I get it. The latest Sony made you sad because all you had to do was turn up...but the Leica is great because it allows you to turn up and forget about everything except the shot...
Honestley I think this Leica philosophy explanation is you own personal experience. The Sony are not complicated computers, They allow you to focus on just what you are shooting specially for street photography and being able to nail shoots at a much faster pace that allows your creativity to flow much quicker and easier. Yes the Leicas are fun, I own an M7 myself but I also own an A7RV and many times I enjoy the freedom of not worring about all the setting to dial in on the Leica and being able to counting on a shot that is in focus at a fraction of a second. I have seen many amazing photographers that use the Sony system with extreme ease. I believe Leica is a nice camera but definitly not for everyone's creative needs.
Thank you for ALL your vidéos I Bouchra a Leica M11 after your vidéo vs M10-R that I have I’ m totally agree with your philosopy To use rhe automatic iso and speed of fix the speed when it’s better Thank you again Emanuel
That’s simply not true. While every business must be profitable to remain in business, I have worked for multiple companies that were almost evangelistic in their product and mission. The company culture and workforce inevitably reflects that commitment. I believe that is very true of Leica.
Leica has phenomenal heritage and history, including helping people escape the holocaust. Truly fascinating history. They also have created a culture around the brand that is second to none.
I wouldn't want to part with either my Sony or my Leica. My A7rV is for color and my M10 Monochrom for b&w. I don't think being high tech is a bad thing, and Sony are nailing it. Leica is still struggling with digital photography technology, and it would be nice if Leica could get up to speed with the rest of the major camera companies. That said, I'm done buying cameras and I've got everything I need to make great images already. I just jumped off the G.A.S. hamster wheel!!! I love seeing what you're doing with your photography, and I wish you only the best.
I shoot both Sony and Leica M11 /Q3 / LM. I don't get how you can say Leica is struggling with digital technology when you consider the quality of the M11 sensor. For sure the AF in Sony is more advanced than a Q3 but it's horses for courses - you could also say the MF is more advanced with the M11! I tend to reach for the Sony to take advantage of its strengths for sports / zoom photography but Leica wins hands down for portraits / street and urban shooting. Finally a big attraction for me is the ability to use the same lenses on my LM and M11 and shooting film / dig feels very complementary with a Leica, not least because the digital sensor by default offers a filmic look.
Thanks for the comment. Leica def lags in the SL line against Sony, but the M is a class of its own and its leading tech in terms of sensor. Nothing like it out there offering triple resolution and the way noise renders at high ISO levels. My A7RV is garbage at 3200 or higher… my M11 is usable at ISO12500 like it’s nothing. But they’re different tools for different jobs, for sure.
I call my favourite setup (for street photography) the "poor man's Leica M10": it's a Sony A7III with a Voigtländer Nokton 40mm f1.2., which is a fully manual high quality lens. However, if I'd buy a Leica, it would most likely be the Leica M6.
I feel the same way. The A7RV is such a brain-dead camera, which is not a bad thing; I'm still going to keep it. However, the M11 is such a nostalgic feeling and excitement of when I first took photos. Dunno if that made sense.
Thanks Dave it’s very helpful since I just got a m11 and 35lux over the holidays. Also hope you had good time at Disney even tho rides kept breaking down. (saw your story on insta. apologies if this is a weird comment lol 😅)
Given the layout of the dials on the Sony, shooting fully manual is pretty easy. I have shutter on the front dial, aperture on the back dial, and ISO on the wheel. It's very fast and simple to make changes. On the Lieca M, it's not like that at all. When I first moved over, I was trying to shoot fully manual but given the location of the dials things like popping-up the ISO dial before you can change it, it's just not really efficient to run-and-gun in full manual.
The menus in Japanese cameras, to my experience, are absurd. I lost a more or less new Olympus digital SLR... and I didn't cry about it. It was so stupidly hard to use, I hardly ever shot in anything other than full automatic. Now I have a Leica and broke out my 2006 dig-cam, and I am all set.
I use Canon but had a Leica Q. I sold it to buy another RF lens. I now regret it because the Leica went everywhere with me and my RF lenses are beefy. I really want a q3 but that $6k is hard to swallow😂. I do agree the simplicity is what I miss…i dont need hundreds of AF settings.
So I am also pondering a move to Leica. For the reasons highlighted here both in the video and comments. I got sick of Sony menu complexity etc. but this simplicity is a Leica myth. I could do exact same with A/S/ISO settings on A Sony and ignore 95% rest of settings. But I get it. We spend 15000 usd just to have a simpler menu. Sensor is Sony and glass is marginally better or worse on a Leica. How dumb we are to think we need a Leica. Myself included. That compulsion to declutter is strong it seems.
You definitely can go with auto settings and aperture priority on Sony, but you can't get the simplicity of the rangefinder experience and that manual-focus M mount lens experience, which is at least 50% of the Leica ethos.
Dave, love the videos and my m11 but dude. Did you effectively just say you abandoned Sony because the camera was doing all the work and then follow that up with the beauty of leica is I let the camera do a lot of the work and simplicity is great? Sorry man, it just stuck out to me lol
@@davidherring it wasn't confusing mate, comment was a bit tongue in cheek. Didn't expect a reply to a comment this old. Keep up the content. I've just moved over to M from the SL system so learning myself. I really don't miss autofocus, the EVF (even thought the EVF on the SL2 is fantastic). I like the size and weight of the M and the character of the lenses. I occasionally miss the sharpness and resolving power of the SL APO primes but I certainly don't miss the back aches. Maybe one day I'll get a 50 APO M.
The difference is manual focus, no preview of the photo in the viewfinder and the size of the gear. The rest is adding unnecessary philosophy. Files from Leica allow exactly the same as files from other cameras but we all love Leica
I don’t completely agree. I can change settings in a snap on my Sony, but Leica isn’t laid out that way. Everything is a physical dial with no fast options. It’s more than just rangefinder and manual focus - it’s an experience in simplicity that must be embraced to full appreciate it. Sure my Sony can shoot Aperture Priority, but it is nothing like the Leica experience.
I shoot in a similar way on a Nikon mirrorless. Except - ISO is on auto, and I set shutter or aperture (usually) on priority. Depending on the situation I want control over aperture (DOF) or shutter (motion). After those two are set, I want the lowest ISO that can accommodate the other two settings. I don't really understand doing auto shutter and manual ISO. Are there many (any?) situations where you don't want the lowest ISO you can get away with for a given shutter/aperture combo? Seems odd to decide on your ISO first.
I do a lot of commercial work and need large, clean images. I want the ISO at base or as low as possible. I only compromise this when the lighting requires is, but that said, I live in California where it’s sunny 400 days a year ;-)
@@davidherring sure, I understand wanting the lowest ISO. But do you ever NOT want the lowest ISO? Do you ever find that, for a given aperture and SS you could use ISO 100, but prefer to use ISO 2000? If not, then auto ISO lets you concentrate on AP and SS.
I just don't have that issue because I shoot in strong lighting 95% of the time, and can keep ISO at 64 or 100 and still have a fast shutter.@@MrTwstws
The closest I can get to a Leica feeling is shooting Fujifilm LMAO honestly, I was a Canon guy because of the tones, texture it gave me in my pictures, but as soon I switched to Fujifilm, the film simulation but yet soft and nice tones and texture sooth me to stay in Fujifilm, for me it beats Canon in portraits and fashion photography that I love.
I thought that's exactly how I use my Nikon Z6ii. Aperture priority and shutter and ISO are in auto u7nless I need a specific shutter speed then just auto ISO. But the M camera is manual focus and in some ways that is more simple. When I use AF which mode am I in. Will that mode affect what gets auto-focused? Which eye on which person will the camera AF? Do I use single point and recompose? Or with MF do I simply focus on the thing I want regardless of where it is n the frame and shoot without thinking about all that. I can MF a Nikon lens but its a pain in the butt. They just don't MF like a MF lens because they're not made too. AF is brilliant if you need to nail a moving person etc. but I guess it depends what kind of photography you're doing. I think also if the camera is doing all the work for you eventually you will lose the ability to make creative control decisions even if you want to because you just wont be using those particular muscles.
That’s a lot of words just to say that you started paying more for your gear while taking a step back to shoot in…aperture priority. I run Sony but also shoot a lot of film and I run them very similar. If it’s the f3 or x700 or one that has a program mode I toss it in program and aperture priority and roll. I don’t think it a Sony thing or Leica thing, you just can’t help yourself with the Sony and wanted to ride the Leica hype train.
The one area where I think an M camera is overly complicated is the focus system. It’s indirect, measuring range and giving no feedback on what’s actually in or out of focus. Shooting with a fully manual lens on a mirrorless camera lets you see how the focus affects your image giving, in my view, a better feel for the operation. When Leica integrates an EVF into an M camera I’ll be on board.
I don’t ever see a scenario where an M would have an EVF, even though I’ve read some speculation. The rangefinder focus system is part of what makes shooting the M special. I love it, and prefer this style of focusing. I don’t zone/range focus too much, but I’ve gotten really fast at rangefinder focusing and rarely miss a shot I intend to take.
