The Lothric Curse ▶ Dark Souls 3 Lore 

True lore for us doggy contenders 🐶🐕‍🦺🐩🐕

Indeed, it is an Ashen Hollow DKS3 lore video in 2021. For a brief moment, the forsaken and chosen undead, the unkindled ash of Lothric, the forlorn hiding in the depths of a rotting painted world, the gentle folk of another, lead by a dragon girl who is a little too tall, the Silver Knights and those burned Black, even the vestiges of Dragons and the remaining Demons, many nursing severed tails, all feel the fleeting warmth of the First Flame and despair. But somewhere, a new ash rises, as always it shall, to seek embers. After all, those of Ash never fail.

I've come to consider Gwyndolin as Gwynevere's and Seath's offspring that Gwyn adopted. This would make your incest theory even creeper (kind of like oedipus Rex).

How could Gwynevere be a queen of Lothric? Gwynevere was sent to be Seath's wife and they have a daughter together, Priscilla. Why would Gwynevere marry Oceiros?

This would also explain the unique form of Sorcery they wield, I've always believed that it was a "Divine Sorcery" if you will. It has the animations of Sorcery but with a Divine Aura. On a lesser note, remember that there is an item that can cast Sorceries and Miracles.

I will never not watch a Dark Souls lore video.

Lothric bringing Lorian back over and over again makes me see some similarities between Lothric and the Fire Keepers. We know that to become a Fire Keeper, you get a major dose of humanity, according to Irina’s dialogue and of course Fire Keeper souls give 5 humanity in DS1. Also, isn’t Lothric’s inability to move reminiscent of Anastacia? Or his prayer-like movements to resurrect his brother reminiscent of the branding ritual seen in the opening to Dark Souls 1? I think it’s highly likely Lothric’s curse has something to do with making a fire keeper-esque heir of fire, literally made for linking the flame.

My favorite boss fight in the souls series, and my favorite quote in the series as well. "Rise if you would... for that is our curse."

This makes sense, since Lothric is not the child of Oceiros it explains why the Evangelists says something about a "bastard curse" when they cast some spells!

I think it's worth taking the "Twin Princes" title pretty seriously, to the extent that, at the very least, they came from the same pregnancy. One thought that strikes me is that Lothric and Lorian were meant to be one person, but the incompatibility of the Sun and the Moon split them even in the womb. I don't know how it connects, but the fact that Lothric and Lorian apparently fought the Demon Prince, and when we fight him he has been split into two demons which reunify over the course of the fight, is incredibly interesting to me. It seems that Lothric and Lorian are spiritually tethered to the Demon Prince, though it's hard to say exactly how.

Another masterpiece Ashen?

The Twin Princes don't get as much attention lorewise as I'd expect with how important and interesting they are so I'm glad you made something on them👍 Their curse has been something I've never really understood

Great video as always! Another thing that would strengthen the incest theory is an important aspect of Lothric's story that was removed in the English translation. The description of Lothric's cinders and Oceiros' soul mention "ロスリックの血の営み" which means blood activities of Lothric (or something along those lines; I can't think of a better translation for 営み (activities)). 血(Blood) may literally mean the blood that circulates in our body OR being of the same familial roots (simply put, being related by blood). This is why a lot of Japanese theorists believe this theory as well.

I always thought another, similar theory made sense: specifically that the nameless king founded lothric as a successor kingdom to his father's lordran, with the purpose of prolonging the flame. This would help explain the dragon worship in lothric since the firstborne heir of lightning sided with the ancient dragons after the war, but also respected his father and bid him a final farewell in Anor Londo (according to item descriptions in DS1). If Oiceros were the son of nameless king or a king further down his lineage, his marriage and offspring produced from Gwynevere would likewise be incestuous. I think it is possible that the Queen of Lothric may not actually be Gwynevere, but instead be a daughter of hers and Flann or a more distantly related granddaughter who inherited her role. This would make more sense since, historically, royalty engaged in incest to keep bloodlines pure (in the context of the lore to make the heir to linking the fire more powerful by being directly descended from Gwyn), but usually at least somewhat distantly related (first cousin marriage being the most common). In this case, Oiceros and the queen would be sufficiently related to produce such offspring, but within the boundaries of acceptability. In terms of the "unspeakable means" of producing a worthy heir, I think that specifically refers to whatever the hell happened to Ocelotte. Since Lothric & Lorian both rejected their duties and Gundyr (if you presume him to be a royal family member) failed at being worthy heirs to link the flame, it seems like Ocelotte was experimented on with forbidden magic that was pioneered by Seath and Big hat Logan with the approval of the desperate Oiceros, most likely by the scholars of the archives and/or the crystal sages. These two theories are also not necessarily mutually exclusive (nameless king/gwyndolin being ancestors of lothric/lorian). It's possible that if the nameless king founded Lothric as its first king, gywndolin could have married into it as a prince consort to one of its queens regnant and produced Oiceros or one of his predecessors. In this case, Lothric and Lorian could possibly be the sons of Oiceros, grandsons of Gwyndolin, great-grandsons of the nameless king, great-great-grandsons of Gwyn, AND sons/grandsons of Gwynevere (or this thread of continuity but stretched with more intermediate predecessors).

The Hollows infected with pus of man can still walk around and Lothric and Lorian are crippled from the waist down. I truly think the second phase of the fight would have had them transform like Gundyr if they were infected. So I think the nature of their curse is still pretty vague. The incest thing is a really interesting idea and totally explains the genetic flaws. Aren't Lothric and Lorian twins in the literal sense? I always wondered why Lorian willingly "took on" the same curse as his brother and then I realized that it was probably simple guilt. Just from the description on his greatsword you can tell he lived a life of adventure, excitement and danger - even defeating the Demon Prince in combat. Meanwhile there's his sickly twin brother who can't wield the sword he was born to wield (as per the item description) and can't even walk. On top of that, he's been raised since their birth to be sacrificed to the flame one day. That, combined with his love for his brother explains his actions pretty well IMO. I think their co-dependence comes from the fact that they were bred for specific purposes - one to be a king and one to be sacrificed. I'm guessing nobody supported their decisions except each other.... and the scholar that talked Lothric into it.

Oh, another dogged contender, mind you the mantle of lore master interests me none. The theory video curse, the legacy of lore? Let it all fade into nothing.

One for Fire Keepers Lore???

whatre you doing snake bro?

ASHEN! HAPPY NEW YEAR!

I'm just gonna go ahead and start with a like...

Wow!!! I just always thought it was shitty mechanics that both dragons guarding the gate died once 1 was put down but holy crap that makes sense

ahhhhh not that great this one. cause a lot of the video was contradictive of the actual game lore. we know that the younger brother was suppose to link the flame cause of his power, he was insanely strong in turns of his soul. which is what governs much of the world of dark souls. he was a powerful mage and was born of the royal line, he was born curse though with a frail weak body. which his older brother who was an accomplished military leader and strong fighter himself chose to share his brother fragility which he does by linking their souls. this causes the older brother to loose the ability to use his legs and become part of his mind if i recall right. basically he destroyed himself in both body and mind for the sake of making his younger brother stronger and more capable of linking the flame to which the young then chooses to not link it.

I am Lorian, blade of Lothric and I have never known...wait sorry, wrong game.

I would like your opinion on the feathers around the boss room, you think it just means that they were part of the angelic religion of some sort?

Man, I will never get tired of dark souls lore. Amazing video as always!

dope, always wondered why both the dragons dies when you kill one...

God i always get my mind blown. Love your vids keep it up👍

That last bit was genius, I never thought of that before, but it makes so much sense, binding their lives together to ensure that one cannot live without the other.

It feels good that u still upload DS3 content

Great video as always homie

Hey, just asking when the dark souls lore video will be released, you know the 3 hour one!

I don't entirely agree with gwynevere/gwyndolin. I think they just want to draw a parallel between lothric and gwyndolin, because we've been shown quite a few times that the kingdombl of lothric tries to imitate anor londo and the gods, and in that they just want to show us that prince lothric, like gwyndolin, is born from some crossbreed experiments. Maybe that's why ocerios dismisses them, because they aren't enough dragony and "unworthy" in his eyes, while ocelotte is "perfect" for him.

Still putting out ds3 lore after years, Fucking Legend

yay, more dark souls lore! it was a great way to end my night before going to sleep. cant want for more videos 😁

This reminds me a LOT of the rumours and theories about Anne Bolyen, Henry the 8ths second wife, and how she supposedly couldn't get a 'worthy' son from her husband so she committed incest with her brother to get one. It's likely not true in reality, but it could be a historical influence on this part of the story.

This is crazy and an awesome theory man good job

Been wondering about this since I first played, can't wait to see more

This is a good theory, but id be stronger to back it with Nameless being the father of Lothric, with all the evidence of Nameless being a former king of Lothric. Perhaps Flann the flame god is Nameless, running away with his sister after being banished and forming lothric the kingdom. What is flame but lesser lighting, or lighting but stronger fire.

27832489058753136899753 you did not read that entire number

At first it felt like a stretch but the second half of the video is quite convincing

To me it's not the most convincing theory, but the fact that they're resistant to Dark damage... hmmm......

My best guess on their curse would be that they made Lothric a lord of cinder instead of being chosen for it. That the sin and the curse was because he was an unnatural lord of cinder or at least a manufactured one.

While I understand your thinking, I feel that Gwyndolin being the father of Prince Lothric is inconsistent with his own character and story, Gwyndolin was born under an feminine moon, he was given a ring to mimic a womans body and he even wears a purposefully feminine dress with a padded chest, it seems likely that a young Gwyndolin would've also had his manhood removed too, for him to be able to father children in spite of all that seems inconsistent and almost a betrayal of his character

Really liked this one. Hadn’t considered the incest angle with the last of Gwyn’s line being a possible reason for Prince Lothric’s weakness/curse. Always assumed it was based on Ocieros experimenting, but this is what many royal families did so has precedent.

The Fire Witch's set has some design similarities to Gwyndolin's Moonlight set from DS1. Specifically, the white fabric with gold trimmings, is designed almost exactly the same.

The embers burn brightly through this Ashen Hollow.

wow, what a great theory man, kudos!

I like to think Lorian is cursed with the death part of the curse and Lothric is cursed to be the life part. Lorian will keep dying and Lothric will ensure he keeps coming back. It's undeath, personified between two beings.

Eww, I don't like the idea of Gwyndolin and Gwynavere as Lothric's parents....I'd prefer to think that Gwyndolin and Lothric look alike because Gwynavere is Gwyndolin's Sister and Lothric's mom and nothing more. I have a theory that none of the Children of Gwynavere have the same father. That like her Father Gwyn she parented Children with members of different races to create children for with specific abilities to serve certain purposes. Lorian lets say had a God as a father, Lothric's father was human, and Oocilot is the Dragon hybrid. I like this theory because I've long thought that Gwyn like his Greek counterpart Zeus, played the field. I speculate that the First Born or Nameless King had a Lord or God for a Mother, that Gwynavere's mother was infact the Witch of Izalith, and Gwyndolin's mother was the Velka or the furtive Pigmy. Consider their sizes and what they are Gods of. The first born Inherented the Light, and was about Gwyns size. Gwynavere was a Goddess of fertility amd Bounty like a Goddess of LIFE. Gwyndolin the DARK sun who is smaller than the other Gods and is strongly associated with Dark and shadows. The moonlight arrows glow with a silver light, almost like a mixture of light and dark?

Lothric looks like he's 67 but sounds like he's 16 but body's like a cancer patient. feelsbadman.png

This was probably the saddest backstory of a boss I killed

YEEEEEEEEES,A LOTHRIC LORE VIDEOOOOOOOO

Lothric wasn't really known for experiments. Not like Seathe or Aldia. The Pus of Man and the tree-branch hollows are likely a result of the culminating twisted extended age of fire ending and transitioning to the age of humanity. I'm not opposed to the idea of incest (i mean, in terms of the lore lol 😅). Lothric was perhaps having sex with his mother... or Lorian... But I think, although it's possible Oceiros wasn't the father as you say, his "experiments" fall under the category of "sexpirements" regarding his obsession with a true heir. Lothric and Lorian were not this, but were likely his. It's not talked about at all anywhere because it's a rather nasty topic. But Rosaria was clearly used to create the perfect heir. It was not pretty, romantic, sanctimonious. It was tragic, disgusting, and traumatic. Oceiros was also clearly obsessed with becoming a dragon. "All I have" referring to Ocelot is because he's crazy and only considers his child-born-of-dragons to be the true heir. "Bastard's curse"... bastard doesn't actually mean without a father. Or at least that's only one definition which is more contemporary than you'd expect. It simply means born without married parents. Which further indicts the cruel nature in which they were born. Is there something to be said about the twin demon princes? I feel in my gut that Lothric's curse is tied to them. The inevitability of their downfall in the face of rising humanity?

I think that the Twin Princes are, at least partially, human tbh. Like Jake said, they do have an resistance to Dark, reminiscent of King Vendrick who was considered a human on par with the gods. But I disagree with the nature of the curse in humans, and by extension Lothric and Lorian. I think the "curse of undeath" is actually humanity's natural state, immortal like the gods. The "fleeting form" man assumed was actually seared onto them by Gwyn, with the darksign appearing as his power waned, the mortality grafted onto humanity burning away. Now, as for how that impacts Lothric and Lorian's curse I couldn't really say anything beyond what we already know; their souls are inextricably entwined and are unable to die unless they are both killed (for all intents and purposes) simultaneously.

I dunno, I think you stopped short here. There's things that suggest to me that incest wasn't *new* to the Lothric royal line, which is to say, I don't think they're the first generation produced of this idea (nor, do I think, was their, perhaps not father, but certainly relative, Oceiros). The conclusion you came to feels very "just gal pals" in the context of a family where incest is a well-established norm. Especially when one considers that Prince Lothric's infirmity causes him to have to, quite literally, use Lorian as a mount. Seems erm...intentional/indicative when one considers how carefully From uses things like movement, infirmity, etc as storytelling within both DSIII and the rest of their work. After all, in a family obsessed with preserving their bloodline to produce a perfect heir, what greater middle finger could there be than for them to have found a partner of "suitable" lineage, but from whom there would be no subsequent generation?

Really good vid, but i have an objection on the whole incest thing: The Divine Blessing states that "The Queen of Lothric [...] After giving birth to Ocelotte, her youngest, she quietly disappeared" It states that ocelotte was her youngest, so that means that there are more than 1 siblings. Perhaps they are all product of incest, but I personally think that they were just stuffed with humanity, nothing more. I also have an interesting theory regarding Aldia being the mentor of Lothric, but I have to study some more about that

Ive been thinking about the "unspeakable means" probably being inbreeding for a while now. Royalty often were born sick, in the attempt to keep bloodlines pure.I think this is the first time ive seen it mentioned for das3. Plus i like the idea of the curse being Lothric having humanity in him. Sacrificing humanity has been the main idea in both DAS and DAS2 with Shanalotte. It would make sence that its still part of the solution. Also explains how a curse can be passed.

I though lothric was a woman

I really like this theory, it may not be one I fully agree with, but with DS what isn't convoluted? But all the info and things you pointed out just answers and raises some great theroeis! The possibility of Ocelot being Oceiros ONLY blood son makes so much since. I'm on the fence on the incest part, only because I still suspect Gwynevere may be a pure fabrication of Gwyndolin, a false image the dark sun always used and continued to use until meeting his end to Aldrich. (No doubt Gwen would be fine with his strange 'son' projecting a much more...treasured image.) Before this vid, I never realized how bounded Lothric and Loran were, their soul being one that was shared is amazing lore I had overlooked! But after seeing you analyze their resurrection and theorize on their shared curse, it's lead me to wounder, could they be Chosen Undead? Loved the video, thanks for all your hard work and entertainment!

Someone made an interesting point Judex Gundyr doesn't actually have to be alive. We get no soul from him only the coiled sword, and we defeated him back in the untended graves, claiming his soul. The pus of man could have been placed inside of him then sealed with the coiled sword so that whoever takes it and defeats the pus of man puppetting the body of Gundyr would be the chosen ash, strong enough to defeat the lords. Just like the dragons we fight at lothric castle who have a pus of man within them they seem to be puppets controlled by the pus of man. They remain unkillable until we defeat the pus and similar to the Iron Golem a puppet Gundyr could be easily reset.

I only recently had the same thought when they said unspeakable means, that and the same voice actor plus characteristics, 👍🏽

The cursed player who is undead so they can never really die..the curse is continuing to be killed and come back,theyre breakin the 4th wall lol the characters and gods are self aware.

I’m not the biggest fan of the Izalith theories but this? Oh buddy this the one. Not sure if I’ve heard too many other people connect the dots between Lothric’s curse and the undead. Good job.

Whoa... If that were true then gwyndolin would have been eaten by Aldrich after that 0_0

Damn, I'd never considered Lothric and Lorian being children of incest. That's a really interesting angle.

I've been taking a couple month break from playing the series after running through all of them multiple times during quarantine, but still have to drop by to watch a good lore video.

Like if you would...

Confirmed The Royal Family is from Kentucky!

Trying to make more sense if they were twins and one came out crippled

I should have watched this whole video before I said I liked this theory.

Wtf

WTF RU-vid DIDNT NOTIFY IM 2 WEEKS LATE

Lorain being brought back weaker and weaker makes sense. I suspect he didn’t lose his legs to the Demon Prince. After dying so many times, attempting to kill it over and over again he succeeded but lost his legs in the process.

Goes 2 show how much those 2 brothers love each other

maybe lorian and lothric are twins.

My favorite storyline in ds3 and you did an awesome job conveying it. Keep up the great work man love your content.

What happened to playing WoW???????

Wait what? Wasn't Gwendolyn a man? I'm almost sure he was.

Good Lord I missed your videos

I appreciate your work

Is ur second channel named xauntzer?

I literally posted this information on reddit 2 or 3 months ago and was greeted mostly with rebuke, most strongly from a user named Ashen Shroom. Suspect as fuck.

Bruh, my heart. I have to stop watching dark souls lore videos.

OMG 😍💋 💝💖❤️

so wow. so now.

Roll tide!

Do we know what happened with Gwynevere?

hot

Damn, you really like Dark Souls