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Switching to another class in Raids/strikes is easy. But when your class, that you play the most, in unfun to play outside of Dps Golems. Thats the problem for me.
Yes I could but why should I? The point is that why make a class not fun to begin with? That's like forcing the goal keeper in football to wear shoes 2 sizes to big for no reason and when he complains about it, tell him to just play another role.
I completely disagree with the idea of this video, I respect your point of view though, the character/class/spec that I choose is the window in which I experience the game and I don't think I have to diversify about it just because arena can't get their "ideas" together not without a lack of a better word but trying to turn lazy bad quality and low budget balancing development as a feature is not ideal for any game, I remember the discord leak drama about the guardian main dev who only buffed his weapon and spec or preference and how not a single one of them played ranger nor had any experience with it, I'll just put my time and money elsewhere,, great perspective to dive in, just not one I'm willing to buy, blaming your customers because they don't like your game, let's see how that goes lol.
Its OK. I would suggest that if you tunnel vision on one build/class/spec and you get upset about a balance patch, don't complain about Anet: you only have yourself to blame. So long as you are aware of that ahead of time, you're OK.
@@NikeonaBike surely I am, that's why I quit a year ago since the discord leak, turning bad balancing into a gaming feature is bad, it's like saying; I have this set of tools that you can use in case I break one them, then you can use any other ones; that tells me you don't know how to make a toolset at all.
@@NikeonaBike the fact that they had "consultants" to give them insights about the current state of the game's balance and that it was obvious that each one of them had their own agenda, the worst part is that no one played ranger and it had no agenda at all they didn't know wtf to do with it and that's why we had those useless traits with long internal CDs, and cherry of the top the main 2k play time guardian..... Which explains what firebrand were rampant for years, I have the complete log just to laugh every now and then and remind myself why not to invest myself too much into the game anymore
A lot of players, arguably most will grow attached to the character they play the most. A combination of qualities will drive a player to 'main' a character, theme, gameplay, skill aesthetics. Expecting a player to accept a balance change or a rework and move on to another character as if it doesnt matter in a Role Playing game is positively crazy. Yes, most players will be more game-litterate if they played outside of their comfort class, and maybe a lot of players will find that playing other characters is liberating and fullfilling. They are not all players. Saying to the player who was convinced to play Guild wars 2 because they have always wanted to play an illusionist, a sand mage, or a master of holograms and finally they find a game that provides that experience and telling them that 'they should play another character' if they want to continue being effective or find a similar gameplay to the one that was removed from the game after a rework is actually a shitty attitude. This is an MMO, this is also an RPG, hordes of players will play a game because it provides an archetype that really compells them to play. Trying to convince them that 'Yes they really like their subtle rogue shadow mage character, but it was reworked or nerfed to the point of unfun so they should really play the sweaty barbarian and and they'll be happy again' is again, an attitude that is not going to work for a lot of RPG players. I understand looking at reddit or a chat message on twitch and cringing at an ill-informed take from a one-spec andy who gets madge about their class being unplayable because they went from 41k to 39k dps in a world where bosses can die with an entire raid doing 18k dps. I don't think this is the recent developments, a lot of players are mad because their gameplay is unrecognizable (Herald, Druid, even scrapper/mechanist to a lesser degree). What I see currently is not players complaining about the performance level of their characters being altered, so it's not a criticism of balance, but design. Lots of scourges are unhappy because shadespam is not fun, druids are not happy because booning and healing being paired up with a CD lock is not a good feeling, scrappers are not happy the longest animation leap in the game being the main source of quickness is not a good feeling. This is long winded, but I suspect that you mistake 'My class was gutted and is now unfun, clunky, punishing and unsatisfying' with 'My class was gutted because it now only does 30k in alac spec'. To be fair, a lot of players will present their gameplay and design preferences as 'balance issues' when they are not.
No, actually. "I suspect that you mistake 'My class was gutted and is now unfun, clunky, punishing and unsatisfying' with 'My class was gutted because it now only does 30k in alac spec'." This is not correct. My thesis is that most players have **no ability** to determine what change is more or less fun, clunky, punishing, or unsatisfying. They can't trust their own judgment because they confuse **any change** with a change for the worse because change = learning = uncomfortable = clunky = less fun. They can't make any comment about fun until they've learned the new playstyle as well as they knew the old playstyle, only then can the average player comment on it. And what we typically find is that in the end the change wasn't "clunky" at all, they just confused the uncomfortable feeling of having to relearn a build with clunkiness.
That makes sense, there is an argument to be made that the game became so simple and streamlined on some fronts that removing that comfort for the sake of balance or fairness to competing classes in a role will inevitably be perceived as clunky as it removes comfort and easiness. I still believe that the rifle mechanist era showed the craving for braindead-simpleton gameplay and that difficulty is not welcome by huge numbers of players in GW2. Obviously in a world like that, any change that creates the slightest discomfort will be a problem. Herald is probably an example of this, basically anet wanted to get away from 'press everything, you're done' gameplay of Qherald, obviously a lot of players who were sold the spec for its simplicity will be mad. Your thesis is fine and all and has truth to it, my post was more of a 'Let's not over apply this rule' because there are decent amounts of clunkiness in recent changes. Scrapper applies quickness while comboing BUT not on their most common (whirl), Scourge had a variable expertise amount because of trait before last patch, any and every mechanical genius iterration, specter priority making it impossible to prefer subgroup healing/booning. Some things cannot be washed away by 'git good' mentality.
I play all classes but none of them can ever compensate the sheer joy I had when Arc Dividing across Tyria. One Arc Divider = 1 Fun, while 3 Arc Divider = 3 Fun It's simple math. You can run away and ignore it by trying other specs, but deep within you, you know that you are the one who is divided.
what I take from the video is if the devs fuck up and destroy the class you have the more fun you simply take it. i do play other classes and build but my favorite is warrior and anet loves to give warriors not needed nerfs.
Also worth mentioning is how frequently entire play styles change (as opposed to just tweaking numbers a little bit). Look at the recent changes to how scrapper gives quickness (use to be through gyros, now its through finishers). So in addition to mastering 5 builds not being as 'big picture' as it use to be, you can't even master 1 build and then move on, as that old build will get completely overhauled in a month or two.
This is very true and very important as well. In order for players to tune in and be more flexible, the orientation and the goal from the game should be clear. GW2 is one of the few games that when you hear new balance patch you worry instead of having a feeling of anticipation. That's cause they haven t decided what professions and through which mechanic will apply their role. It s natural, for many players, as a defensive mechanism to want an anchor, something they feel comfortable with. Now, before someone judged me, I do accept there are many fanatics and people refusing the change and probably the video aims for them. I am just saying that the game should do the absolute best to provide the path and the tools for this mindset to flourish and not setting obstacles with uncertainties.
Hey Nike, I mostly agree with this take, but some aspects do have me puzzled. You say there are dangers to hyper specialisation, but only list some potential solutions to it. Would be great to know what you think these dangers are as I feel it wasn't super clear in the video. You mention that the game is headed in the direction of pushing players to hyper specialise, and you consider this to be a negative, which I don't understand either. The variety of roles and builds available to someone who mains a particular profession or spec is much more than before. Professions are becoming easier to play, more enabling, and more diverse with every patch and this should be celebrated. Nowadays, a hyper specialised player now already has a much better understanding of what it might be like to play a different role because of the easier opportunity to diversify (ie. if they want to provide a particular boon or to heal, they might only need to change a few traits and stats instead of having to switch to an entirely different character). This inherently gives them more game knowledge and value to a group. When it comes to balancing specific professions, I'd imagine people trust a player who has put thousands of hours into that singular profession over one that has only had a few hundred. Provided they have been exposed to endgame content and fought alongside other players, it would be normal to expect them to have a good understanding of how their builds perform compared to others and their strengths and shortcomings. If a particular spec is underperforming or has been designed in a negative way, why shouldn't players be upset? How else can their voices be immediately heard? Sure, if they move on to or play another spec, they might not care as much, but that does not address the issue of underperforming specs needing change. In my opinion, knowing the other builds and specs in the game is not as important as learning encounters. If someone decides to master an encounter better for their role, I find them to have much more valuable "game knowledge" than someone who has a mediocre understanding of multiple roles, but I get that's subjective. Happy to discuss that. Overall, I think the solutions you've presented are good advice in general to someone who has been playing the game for years and just wants something new. However, I don't really see any problems with hyper specialisation. If someone finds joy in dedicating their playing time to learning how to be the best at their role and mastering every encounter of the game, there is nothing wrong with that. If there's something fundamentally wrong with their build compared to others, they also have every right to complain. Other than this, I agree with everything else you've said in the video.
The problem with specialization is what I said it was: loss of perspective of the balance of the game as a whole. You begin to lose the ability to think objectively about not only the meta holistically, but the ability to see where and how your class fits in. This is why you see Necromancer mains, a class has been dominant in all 3 game modes for many years, say things like "anet hates necro its always been bad." They are so far down the drain they have no perspective whatsoever. The second problem which I went into a lot of detail with, is the fact that if youre entire gameplay hinges on one spec, a change to that one thing threatens your enjoyment of the entire game. Your happiness becomes incredibly fragile and tenuous. Considering that balance in an MMO is ever changing, this is setting yourself up for *inevitable* disaster. I feel like these points were pretty clear, no?
To be completely honest, this feels like a non-issue made into an issue for the sake of a video, and calling it the "main" problem seems way over the top. A player should not be expected to play a ton of classes. In fact, historically, both for RPG's and MMORPG's, you played a single class / build. RPG's still stick to this a lot, and while MMORPG's have generally moved towards making it more alt-friendly, that is done by "demand" as many players enjoy playing multiple classes (which also means I am very skeptical about the whole premise that people only play one class). But I see no reason why someone who just enjoys thief, or necro or something can't just stick to that? I honestly do not see the problem. No, they won't understand the meta as well, so what? Playing everything to know everything is not a requirement, it's something you can choose to do to better yourself at the game. If you like Joe the thief, play him and only him. That does not make you a problem.
It makes you a problem when your irrational and incorrect beliefs about the game become a large part of the community discourse, as we see all too well recently.
@@NikeonaBike Yeah, no. I personally do play all professions, so even if this was a problem, I'm not part of it. But even so, that is not a problem. Your whole "problem" about incorrect beliefs is based on some weird belief yourself, that everyone should know everything. If someone just enjoys one profession, there is nothing wrong with that. This is clearly a person with a more "hardcore gamer" mindset getting angry that the majority of gamers are, in fact, not like that. And that's okay. People don't need to know everything and form well informed opinions, it's a GAME. People enjoy it how they want, and that's just not a problem. Trying to force people to spend 30% of their time not playing what they want is ridiculous.
@@BreakerBeat You need to stop projecting. "Your whole "problem" about incorrect beliefs is based on some weird belief yourself, that everyone should know everything." No where did I say that in the video, nor did I suggest anything close to that. I suggested that people spend 30% of their playtime trying other classes and you warp that to "everyone should know everything." I'm sorry I won't let you strawman me.
@@NikeonaBike Lol, you're the one who suddenly said I'm the problem, despite playing all classes. I simply don't agree with you, that doesn't make me a problem. And yes, you did pretty much say that. You're saying the problem is that people only play one profession and thus don't know enough, resulting in uninformed opinions. I don't see that as a problem - it's a video game. So what if someone doesn't know about other classes? How is that in any way a problem? And calling it the "main problem" is just huge clickbait, even you have to admit that.
@@BreakerBeat is English your second language? When I say "you're the problem when" I'm not referring specifically to you the person I'm talking with, I'm referring to the person whose actions I'm describing. What the fuck kind of conversation is this?
Learning new specs is the fun part about the game like what else are you doing if not trying to learn all the specs 😂 U can always follow the meta like that. Some ppl are way too conservative.
Basically how I am handling it is the following. I have a main class, which is Revenant on which I do pretty much everything that does not require me to play a specific build while playing a solo build for having an easy time. For every type of group content, I always try to be at least decent on one of each. Quickness DPS --> Herald, Firebrand, Catalyst or Chrono (guess I am kind of a QDPS nerd xD) Quickness Support --> HFB Alac DPS --> Renegade or Chrono Alac Support --> HAM Condi DPS --> Virtuoso or Specter Power DPS --> Weaver or Chrono I have all the other classes and besides some very specialized stuff would say I don't do TERRIBLY bad on them but that is at least the way I handle things. In case that helps anybody
It is good to try out different builds with your main character. But it is up to all to do what is fun for them. Trying different classes is an ok suggestion, but not all have the time or event want to do that. As your main might be the one that has done the story etc. It has become your persona in the game itself so to say. Alt characters might not feel as your character, just storage space. And other builds might not be as fun. The bigger point is to ask why the developer seems to want to change certain aspects of how a class functions or feels. Balance and playability definetly need to be look at, but what a class is to people should not be changed so much that it is not giving anymore the happy juice that it did before. Arc divider for warriors, pet usage for rangers, skill spam to classes that did not have it before as much and away from ones that did have etc. etc. MMO's change, that is true and it is the devs game but a developer should understand why people play each class. What makes players drawn in to them. The feel and the fantasy. To take that away from players only leads to complaints. Understand, refine, improve and keep the feel. That is the way.
I agree, they should have kept the original feel of Arc Divider by returning it to 1 hit. As you must be aware, when HoT came out Arc Divider was one hit, so I agree with you its good the devs reverted this change to keep the feel of the class the way it was meant to be.
@@NikeonaBike Problem is that the devs go back and forth too much with certain things. Not sure how long the changed version of Arc was in the game but during that time some people came to love the idea of it. And going back from that is an issue too. It is nice that GW2 has seen so many balance changes and improvements in its life time, but one needs to be carefull. Class changes should be done based on the people who play the class and love it etc. Not based on others that would like to play it but with changes (elite spec maybe yes, but not by changing what it is now). And I am not blaming Arenanet only in this. Same thing happens in other mmo's and it saddens me. I personally got hit by a change in FF14 with their summoner rework. Had to change my main job in that game as a result. Luckily your character can chage to any of the games jobs so I did not lose my main. If the game did not have such a system, I would have propably quit the game at that point. The change was so fundamental to my enjoyment.
@@CrimSolitude I'll be blunt, I have nothing but the utmost contempt for anybody who finds Arc Divider hitting 3 times something fundamental to their experience.
@@NikeonaBike I personally do not main warrior etc. so can not truly say how the skill felt and how much you were able to use it. What I want to bring forth is just that some players find enjoyment with how a class functions to them. Those that complain about the Arc change may have lost a certain amount of that feel that they want from warrior. Maybe its a list of several changes over a long time and this one is just another on that list. Or maybe its a bit petty to complain about. In the end though the change has made the feel of the class something that some players do not like anymore. I did see quite a few mention that they miss the whirlwind feel that it provided. Saying that you have contempt towards some of those people. Well thats a bit much. You can disagree but try to understand that there are others that find enjoyment in a different way. Some may attach themselves more to a character/class/playstyle fantasy than you do. Theres nothing wrong with that and voicing opinions when that feel is taken away. Though how a person expresses those opinions is a different matter.
Arc Divider is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. To anybody who isnt a delusional "berserker main" the change was incredible: dps buff, removing cancerous aftercast stowing, makes the rotation a perfect loop. All things that anybody sane would say is great. All the deluded maniacs have to offer is "it's not fun." Utter nonsense. Fact of the matter is, players irrationally hate change, and *they find all change* to be *less fun* or *clunky*. You can look at every balance patch or elite spec EVER: a ton of people calling builds or specs "clunky" or all new rotations "not fun." Fast forward 6 months into the future they love the class, love the rotation. They are too dumb to realize its simply that they dont like change. Once they learn the new, better build they will get over it and love the new one even more. Or they will act like children and throw a tantrum over nothing and quit. Either way is a win-win for the rest of us.
@@NikeonaBike anything elementalist, you have to go carpal tunnel mode to do anything relevant while some clases barely had to do a complex rotation or any rotation at all, yes I'm looking at you early mechanist, this is subjective I understand that but still something to look at.
@@adan2343 Weaver is easy as hell to play: media.discordapp.net/attachments/597741064522170397/1133124515019378688/Capture.PNG?width=415&height=522 you cant look at this rotation and tell me its high apm or challenging. The "ele is hard" piano meme needs updating.
I think its great to have very specialized class spec builds. This game felt kinda shallow back then. I have all the classes up to lvl and decked out with endgame gears on multiple spec build. But many of them are just simply easy button smashing rotation thing. Basically I just main any spec that I might recently started playing and felt interesting. I like the way that you actually have to take time to learn and master the spec. Its more like World of Warcraft nowadays, you need to spend much more time on mastering a spec. The only problem that prevented me front returning the game is that the optimization of this game havent got any better ever since the og launch. Im getting newer and better computer but the fps in Lions Arch is getting lower.
What I realised about my own experience during this video is... multiple times over years I've gone from playing raids with multiple builds to taking a break. On returning, the mechanics (not simple buffs/nerfs) of so many elite specs have changed, I can't jump back in to raids on any of them before relearning everything about it e.g. Firebrand page sharing, druid healing and boon supply etc. I know raid mechanics, but it would be nice if there wasn't some uprooting of the specs every so often. Ah well, back to the festival event for me...
I have a very wide roster now thanks to legendary armor. I play 2-3 specs on each character, across like 6 different professions, at a raid-proficient level and I feel like I can have fun every patch by trying something new. I won't necessarily like everything and it sucks when my "mains" get nerfed but it is what it is, every month I can rotate around and keep playing and enjoying the game :)
Some professions are just totally dicked on and ignored by the current class team. Sword of Decimation is STILL 25 seconds... They don't give a shit about Mesmer and it shows
I see what you're saying but I see it kind of like how one tricking works in League of Legends. There are currently over 160 different champions in that game, or specs referred to in GW2's case, but a lot of people still will play only one champion with the exception of maybe having a single backup pick just in case their champion gets banned. In fact, one-tricking is actually the most guaranteed way to get good at the game and climb all the way up to the highest elos of gameplay. Then when you consider all of the different runes and whatnot that LoL has on top of that as well as all of the different item builds, GW2 actually has SIGNIFICANTLY less to memorize and learn comparatively. These people making these balance posts that you're talking about, I don't think them one-tricking the spec is as much the issue as them being too lazy to read up and educate themselves on what the other specs do and how the other specs interact with their main. You can't call yourself a "specialist" if you aren't simultaneously aware of where your spec is weak, what specs beat yours, where your spec stands in the current meta, and etc, etc. You can only call yourself a specialist, in my opinion, if you have taken the time to know every facet of your spec and how to perform at a consistently high level even when you're disadvantaged or your spec is off-meta. I look at people like Manco, Ipav, IKeepItTaco, and others who have gotten all the way up to top 300 players out of hundreds of thousands of other players in their regions throughout the years despite playing literally only one champion out of the more than 160 that are available and the over 1000 different possible build variations that occur when you consider the different items people can run on those champions. The people complaining rather goofily about balance while one-tricking a spec here in GW2 just need to stop complaining and just learn some new information. They don't even need to play those other specs realistically, they just need to learn about them. They need to spend some time learning, either in game or out of game, about how those other specs function and how everything interacts. As a one-trick condi/bunker mirage player in GW2 and a 2-trick Teemo and Jhin player in LoL, it's my opinion that the issue isn't balance, it's ignorance. If you're going to one trick then at least take notes from your games and make an effort to learn through some other means. >.>
Oh sure, they just broke the build you like? go play something else, How did that not cross my mind? You still have a strong point, going clown in the forums is just stupid.
The problem isn't when they "break" a build, because that's relatively rare. The problem is when they change it, or even buff it, and people don't like it because anything unfamiliar feels worse. Those people tend to complain and when you look at their complaints from outside the bubble of maining that build, you see how ridiculous the complaints are.
@@NikeonaBike you cant feel unfamiliar with just numbers tweaks. But they like to change how things works patch after patch. I know that some changes can lead into positive results in the long run but the process is pain for some people. I mean, im genuinely scared every time they announce a new patch, and to be honest i feel that this started from the moment they announce all that "every class must do everything" policy.
_The MAIN problems in GW2_ are: - alac and quickness are requierment in any group content - same group gameplay when 10+ people is on the pile, making flashy clusterf*ck, because all buffs have instead of 3000+ range only 160/360 - for no reason - huge difference between class's best build and another "playable" build. Because of massive different of difficulty between core Tyria and expansions, is every player "forced" to play best build, otherwise you make from the MMORPG a souls-like game. I figured it out, best way how to enjoy the game is play one most favourite class and if you dont want to play the class, play another game or watch TV series and you cant be bored from playing 1 class and 1 build.
I don't think it's inherently bad to specialize, however people should be aware of how most builds function and why they do specific things, especially for support roles. Knowing why something is too bad, too good, or functions fine, can help decide whether or not a balance change is good or not.
I can't agree it is a "problem" for players to stick with the character they like, it's a weird statement. I'm not against trying other characters, I did try all classes. But my main remains my favorite, she's the one I will play 90% of the time, and there is nothing wrong with this. I mean, she's full pink stuff, she has her main weapon legendary, I've bought expensions for her bag slots, stuff slot and crafting skills... And above all, I've lived all my adventure with her, she's the one who killed the dragons... It's not as satisfying with others. I can play any of my spec, DPS or Suport... But I'm not as interested in all the others... And really I don't have the motivation to stuff them all for Fractals (maybe when I'm full legendary) #SorryNotSorry
This is exactly why i quit PvP. I where playing one Style of Builds for warr. (Some CC with Burst skills actually dealing dmg). That i can't have fun with the current Meta (the whole Meta is just AoEs). So I sweaped frustrated to PvE where i allready am able to Play multiple Builds/classes/roles. (Heal quick FB/ every warr build/ condi virt/ alac condi Specter/ Power soulbeast). I where simply frustrated by playing one class in PvP over the years. Now that i just Play PvE with multiple classes my fun is higher than ever. (Even while I still Miss PvP for some Times cause Well it was still my 90% Main gamemode since now 9 years xd)
Good perspective and a good lesson....one I had to learn with the (really not fun IMO) Scrapper changes. Got my Soulbeast up to speed and having a fun time, but thinking about other specs to play a bit as well.
If you play the game for a single class, that's fine. Because some classes are more fun than others. I've played all classes and none of them are fun compared to ele(all professions)...and since i'm playing for fun, i will keep playing it. If I can't compete while having fun, that's imbalance
With how many different ways there are to play every class, you don't even need to have multiple alts to achieve this either. I play Necromancer, but that's just it I play Necromancer I play all the builds you can play on it so when one gets nerfed, is bugged or just gets boring I can switch it up. It's helped me prolong my enjoyment of the game infinitely because I treat all of my alts classes the same as I do my main. This video is spot on, no one should be quitting the game because their one spec gets nerfed or is bugged. There's so much actual depth in this game, you can always find something that feels just as fun to play if you explore it.
I definitely was guilty of sticking to mostly one spec for a long time. Best thing you can do for yourself is to branch out, even trying other classes.
So what is the danger of hyper specializing? You never go into that lol. I don’t see the correlation between specialization and game knowledge. Not when you have access to data. If your argument is that your performance will be more consistent by playing multiple specs because you can switch to something that’s currently performing better, then sure that makes sense. But how important is that really? Let’s say you only play Power berserker, and you want to play quickness offensive support. Well, condition berserker might parse higher by a small amount, but power can still pull plenty of dps for the content in the game. So is it really that necessary to play things you don’t find fun?
Man its hard to believe you watched the video and didn't hear me say what the danger is. It's also hard to believe I said "your performance will be more consistent by playing multiple specs because you can switch to something that’s currently performing better" when I said nothing even remotely like that. I don't really understand how you can be so far off if you actually watched for more than 20 seconds.
@@NikeonaBike Well maybe you could be more clear. Your premise of needing to play multiple specs to understand class balance or game balance is false from the start, because we have access to data which tells us plenty about balance. Players always have and always will ask for ridiculous changes to their class, but correlating that to the need to play more specs or classes is where you’re losing me. Specifically, around the five minute mark you mention the ‘danger of hyper specialization’ but then fail to go into any detail at all for the remainder of your video. You mention something about helping players have more fun or something, but fun is entirely subjective so I assume that can’t be your main point.
So now we have the YT'ers trying to gaslight players into thinking it's their fault they don't like bad changes. Blame shifting nonsense. Here we have a giant thumbnail saying "YOUR FAULT" (but then you say 'it's not an attack' - pfft) and talk about how - and I quote - "If you monospec and that spec gets nerfed or changed to be against whatever your definition of fun is..." I'm gonna stop you right there. Because 'just play something else more' doesn't fix that, and doesn't make the changes people are bitching about suddenly good. The 06/27 patch was shit - WAY worse than the one a year ago that shook everything up over there. Overbuffing some, overnerfing others, missing the numbers mark in both directions on way too many builds, plus making changes that feel bad to play, and using 'live' as a PTR cause they won't invest in actual playtesting. And where they get their internal feedback (ahem... you know where that is I think, don't you, Nike?) is completely detached from the actual overall playerbase. The PTR problem isn't CMC's fault, and I think he's probably a great guy, but I do not enjoy his dev work, or changes to balance or skills since he took over. And it isn't because I main a build, it's because of so many changes that 'look good on paper' then play out poorly - because there isn't a PTR, there's private elitist discords (and snowcrows benchmarks) as the main tools to decide what to do. So, no - you're dead wrong on this one. Players with 'mains' aren't the problem - bad changes are.
You miss the point. This video isn't meant to, and doesnt, defend balance changes. The point is that if you play a variety of specs you will be insulated from "bad" changes, and you will have better perspective to understand the changes themselves and offer better feedback. Its clear you didn't pay attention to anything said in the video whatsoever and just wanted to rant about PTR, CMC, discord groups etc.
Kinda flies in front of the old adage of "why half ass a bunch of things when you can whole ass one thing?". Likely how a lot of people approach the game in terms of what all they play. While I understand where that sentiment comes from, I agree what what you're getting at in terms of expanding game knowledge. I've every class at 80 with all specs unlocked, but I only consider myself "good" at maybe half a dozen specs. Same goes with other MMOs I've played; I may have a main per se (ele in GW2) but that doesn't stop me playing other classes. Learning how they all play is part of the fun to me.
Excellent analysis and advice. As someone who's been a jack-of-all-trades player since the days of GW1, enjoying switching characters and builds to fit the needs of the party, I have no issues with certain builds rising and falling in popularity. I enjoy (almost) everything (I hate braindeadeye rifle rotation, though).
@@NikeonaBike I know there is a "split balance" but that's not how it operates in reality. The fact you don't know doesn't bode well for your ability to analyze things below surface level. The balance team uses PvP as a cornerstone for how skills should be across the board. Making heavy-handed changes and waiting for people to complain before they actually look at how it affects the different modes. Now how about not attempting to one-up someone, and actually analyze what's being done and what's being said. Until next time my little water skimmer.
@@mr.roboxihuman4344 Instead of accusing me of not understanding the reality of balance or design, maybe in your 3rd reply you'll actually make a specific point with an evidentiary example. So far you've done a good job of being condescending while not actually saying thing substantive.
@@NikeonaBike What you're upset about is a reflection of your own hubris. Accusing me of not knowing about the "split balance" while attempting a one-up rather than a discussion, shows you've got nothing more than a bone to pick because I don't agree with your particular stance. You further prove it with your continued provoking. I'm not working, my little water skimmer. But I am speaking using more substance than yourself. How about you start over and attempt a real conversation?
Justifying the damage done to the game by those who don't want to take a lose but want everyone else to adapt to the silly ideas whispered in the devs ear. They've made changes in game only to change the change a couple of weeks later when realizing the change had been incorporated efficiently into gameplay. Don't be fooled.
in good games onetricks are usually better than the majority of the playerbase. Glad i didnt waste my time on this half-dead game when i was searching for new mmo to play.
I 100% agree players should try multiple classes. I have characters/specs to cover all roles. That being said, here’s where you lose me - I don’t see where in this video you’re being supportive of your own community sharing feedback. It is not a bad thing to post on the Anet forums - Anet needs to see constructive, meaningful feedback from players. Based on the last few months of patch changes, it is painfully OBVIOUS they didn’t think through things. Even a hardcore supporter like Teapot was cringing or baffled by some of the balance changes. To be blunt, CMC and the balance team have major blind spots. They are not playtesting things thoroughly before pushing out live class changes. Anet needs community feedback now more than ever. While I get your thesis of “X class is broken? Play Y class instead” - how is Anet going to know if X class is broken if the community isn’t actively sharing feedback about it? You mentioned Spellbreaker being bugged and then later fixed - there’s nothing wrong with players holding Anet accountable and reporting those bugs. Similarly, if one class is blasting and overtuned and 3 other classes are underperforming awfully, Anet should know about it.
@@NikeonaBikeIn Teapot’s July 18th patch review video, he called the game a “complete fiesta” now, and literally said “I throw my hands up, I don’t even know anymore.” Teapot said multiple classes need more work or a redesign, Deadeye, Catalyst, Druid, Berserker, to name a few. Why do some classes have to obtain 100% boon duration to provide their boon, plus work harder, and use a rotation of buttons, whereas others can have full DPS gear and easily keep full boon uptime? Quick Herald and Alac Bladesworn are two examples. That is not balanced. Also, how do you think Anet even concluded that they needed a July 18th “whoops we messed up” clean up patch? Because they saw from feedback that they screwed everything up without thinking through their own design choices. I appreciate that they are currently fixing things, but Anet shot themselves in their own foot by not play testing changes before making them live. The community feedback was overwhelmingly negative, on the forums, social media, RU-vid, content creators, etc. and they were forced to patch their game in response. So I stand by my point that community feedback is critical for devs, particularly in an MMO.
@@NikeonaBike In the greater context of how long it's taken Anet to patch things in the past, yes, in that regard - it's a miracle. That doesn't detract from Teapot's critique on the July 18th balance patch that I quoted above, there's still a lot of balance work to be done. By the way I do agree with a lot of your points, I play 4-5 builds/roles and it has opened my eyes to group play, what to look for, what to prioritize - I definitely agree with your points there.
My "best" dps is around 18k with reaper. Everything else i hit like a wet noodle. I see "easy 45k dps reaper" videos. Nat me xD Skill issue i know. Skill ceiling feels so high idk what do Anymore. even reaper having simple rotation my shit is wack. Feelsbadman
Are you really blaming the players 😂 instead of talking about the real problem which is the gw2 dev team and their idiocity, wow 😂 keep up the good work😂
He is simply saying that anyone who doesn't think like him is the bad guy, that's the kind of guys that help the devs do more stupid stuff, so again good work🤣
@@cookiemanprime9511 @minakatahizuru how am I a shill? Who is paying me? Also how am I saying "anyone one who doesn't think like me is the bad guy"???? Where did I say that, or anything like that? Stop projecting things onto me you fucking idiot. It's OK to disagree with me without distorting what I said to conform to some strawman in your head you mouth breathing cretin.
Great video and advice! I must be a bit unlucky with the specs I've learnt 😅 DD and FB were the only 2 that came out in a way I enjoyed post patch. Not that I got big mad for the 4 or 5 other specs that weren't so great. Anet said they would follow up and even before that, it was obvious they would fix the glaring issues. For the most part, the follow up did address them and things look a lot better. This community kinda scares me with how 'rabid' they can get over change and stuff they don't like(ie. see threads n posts about the Relics jfc😐) However, did find it quite disappointing that the June 27th preview gave Anet enough time to gather feedback and they didn't do anything with it before release. Is what it is though!
What you'll find is that it isnt that the new designs are any less fun. They are just different. Different = change and change = uncomfortable. If you gave them time and practice you'd almost certainly find you will grow to like them.
@@NikeonaBike it's not that I disliked any design aspect of the changes. I actually like these shake ups and was really looking forward to the patch. It was more so balancing being underpowered or over powered on release that made it unfun or disappointing. Like I said though, after the follow up most of this was addressed but honestly didn't need this if Anet just thought a little bit harder, play tested a little more and listened to some feedback beforehand. That's pretty much the main thing I'm critical of.
Have to disagree with this. It's not my job to keep jumping from best class of the season to the next because ANet can't figure out how they want their game to work. If they keep reworking stuff for the sake of reworks, while completely ignoring community feedback (I'm not talking about some loud people here, but the median opinion) and not updating stuff that has been in the game since release, then it's not my job to just take it after I invest hundreds or even thousands of hours into a character or a set of characters. If you look at Engineer and specifically scrapper, you'll easily see that ANet doesn't play their own game. They want to remove button spamming to provide 1 singular boon, so they take quickness away from gyros, and put it on leaps and blast finishers. This is jsut one example. People aren't mad because they aren't "gud", it's because they can't get good. Of course it's easy to disregard all of this when one has played Guardian for 10 years, because it's still the strongest and msot versatile class, attracts the msot amount of people because of class fantasy and therefore ANet has to adhere to those people, as they make up the biggest amount of the playerbase. It's just sad for the lower end of the class pool who see no play because a) the class fantasy isn't as attractive and b) when they catch up and perform as well, the people who play guardian or necro lose their damn shit, run to the forums and "democratically" vote for nerfs. This has been going on for years, and I've seen many people go, including me, and nobody cares because the game is now officially set up to only cash in new players by letting each class do everything. But some classes remain better at doing everything than others. That's the problem.
if you think "It's not my job to keep jumping from best class of the season to the next because ANet can't figure out how they want their game to work" is anything close to what I said, you didn't pay attention to the video. Also several things you say about balance are factually incorrect so you are probably part of the problem.
These are good points. I mainly play a couple of characters that can fill almost every role and I can play them reasonably well. So even if one specific build gets nerfed I still can enjoy any of the other builds I play.
Fun insurance is a great way to describe not pigeonholing yourself in to one profession or build. I've never really had issues with any particular balance patch because I play a little bit of everything. I just play whatever's good and whatever's fun to me that day, week, month, patch, etc.
One of the aspects, that lead to just playing one character, and in its extreme one spec is, that Anet puts up barriers in switching between characters. Bag Slots are tied to characters. You can't even simply transfer bags between characters. Map progress is not tied to account, but to characters. Masteries, etc., you need to do it all over again. Eqiuipment is tied to a character. 😢I fully get it, that this is part of the game design to keep ppl busy, however it discourages some players (like me) from easily switching to another character. If game design would WANT us to switch, it should be as easy as possible to switch. This game makes it explicitely hard to switch.
im an altoholic and there legit is no alt friendlier mmo than gw2 yes exotic is soulbound, but its cheap af yes additional bag slots are soulbound, but standard is actually enough map progress legit doesnt matter so you stated like not even a handful amount of bullshit arguments why its NOT alt friendly instead of like the 30 positives why it actually is alt friendly dont get me wrong everyone has different opinions, and every single one matters but that was just legit wrong and also undeserving
Lol i quit gw2 cuz they nerf thief down to the ground.... Lmao but I played everything.. So then I realized that ppl were bitching about the skills of the player. Not the class...
Yeah I agree with you. Even tho I have my Main berserker for 10yrs + I still try to make and invest in other classes. I enjoy playing healer as well in WvW and some fractals. My classes just got outdated when I was gone for yrs so I have to work on them to get them on some good builds. Variety is the spice of life and balance is everything. So diversify in every aspect and never keep all your eggs in one basket =).
The problem becomes when you've tried a lot of other classes and specs but they just don't "click" or bring you any sort of joy. I simply *do not* like anything related to Guardian, Revenant, Warrior or Engineer. I just don't. The flavor of those professions is simply Not For Me and I will never be able to extract a single iota of fun out of playing them or any of their Elite Specs at any point in my life, ever. I've tried. It just doesn't work. I can't *force* myself to enjoy something I simply don't enjoy, and trying to do so is a recipe for burnout and bitterness. I focus pretty hard on Scourge, Harbinger, Deadeye and Specter for the most part because the flavor and playstyle of those professions+specs appeals to me. They play to my preferred class fantasies and I hop between them as my mood shifts or balance changes renders one or more of them unviable, like what happened to Scourge for a short couple of weeks here recently and what's happened to Deadeye as of this most recent patch on the 18th. I shouldn't HAVE to play a class I don't like or even just "feel neutral" about like Ranger/Ele, simply because some people on the balance team made a Bad Decision regarding the QoL or number scaling of a given spec I enjoyed. FFXIV doesn't really have this issue. You can play any class in the game and still function to a reasonable degree without feeling like you're dragging anyone down, but GW2 has this issue with untested, wildly shifting balance changes where entire specs become completely unviable for weeks to months at a time instead of ANet taking the time to playtest or even set up a Public Test Realm of sorts for players to test and give feedback regarding the sweeping changes made to certain class setups. Having short beta periods for players to test certain changes before they go through on the live servers so numbers/QoL can be tweaked and repaired instead of shipping out universally reviled and despised changes would do a metric FUCKTON towards preventing potential issues from popping up before they even start.
@@NikeonaBike Deadeye's the main one I'm unhappy with at the moment, since it's currently in a bad spot with its DPS build being only mediocre, which kinda stands in opposition to its identity as a No Utility/No Cleave, Go Hard As Fuck single-target Selfish DPS that requires pinpoint precision to play, and it needs some number upticks to fix its current issue of having no place in PVE content because other specs can now do its job of DPS better and have the utility and cleave to back up their position. Specter is good. Harbinger's good. Scourge is *technically* good even though it's QoL isn't particularly where I'd like it to be. I just wish ANet had a better system in place for testing their changes before pushing them to live, because from what I've seen with this pair of balance patches, they either severely overshoot or severely undershoot a spec's intended capabilities with no real middle ground. It's a problem that could be solved with a PTR/open beta testing scenario of some kind, so they could get feedback on what does or doesn't work so they don't have to go back and hotfix the severe problems they end up creating with certain specs because of mechanical oversights in how a spec works at its core level.
@@NikeonaBike Rifle Deadeye can't even break 36k when it used to sit at 41k, and D/D Deadeye falls right under 40k after the nerfs. Deadeye's identity is that it has no utility or cleave in exchange for having the highest single-target damage in the game. It no longer holds that spot. Scourge benches 41k on a single target. Specter benches 42k. Harbinger benches 41k. ALL of them beat out Deadeye after the nerfs to Premeditation and Iron Sight, and they all have better cleave and utility to top it all off. There's just no reason to bring Deadeye to content when its claim to fame is gone and other specs can do the DPS job better while carrying better flexibility. Quick Deadeye definitely needed to be taken down a peg with how powerful it was, but what ended up happening is that the DPS build got punished for the sins of the Quickness build. DPS Deadeye has all these weaknesses and caveats that were designed around it having bonkers damage in exchange, but now it's all just disadvantages and cons with none of the upsides. Its problem is that it's in a bad position when put up against other options. It's outclassed.
Great video! Fun insurance is an important factor to keep in mind to make the best out of your valuable time. I actually unsubbed from subreddit because of all the unhinged and toxic comments.
the game is very forgiving with his mechanics. so everyone can play alot of things and try out. thats why i like your suggestion. on the other hand the game is time consuming, not everyone want to play an hour or longer only to get one of many endgame contents. and the game is not very good at teaching how you can manage your time. a huge part about it is to learn by doing but there are many shortcuts. depending on privat circumstances that is the only way to get the experience you want, but that also means every small change can be harsh. so i understand wherefrom that issue comes. imo the main problem are expectations and missing a helping hand. sometimes our expectations are higher then the experience. so thats one solution: just go back to basics and try things out^^. remind yourself why your playing. and its ok to go on if something doesnt feel right anymore. experiences change.
Maybe I'm just spoiled by ffxiv, but I don't think that players should have to log out and switch characters just to join a raid group. However, I agree that if you decide to be dedicated to your main character, you should make a conscious effort to play the other associated elite specs. I think the homogenization of the game's balance in terms of elite specs is a great thing. Every profession has a pure dps spec, an alacrity spec, and a quickness spec. The majority of the boon specs can also flex into a healer role. Homogenization allows players to play what they want and it also allows the developers to make more intricately designed boss encounters, it drastically decreases the time it takes to form LFG groups, and it takes a step towards a potential instance matching system (something that guild wars 2 needs badly). Another argument in regards to "the alacrity spec for my main is weak because of x reason(s)" is not a huge issue because many encounters (particularly the still-popular HoT raid bosses) are extremely powercrept to the point where playing a less-than-meta spec in the role isn't an issue. Mouth-breathers are going to complain on reddit because that's just what the gw2 subreddit does unfortunately.
Well said, though I both agree and disagree with your take. Yeah playing multiple specs is a great idea but it's something that shouldn't even be necessary. Take FFXIV's BLM as an example, it stands still, gives no support, and makes big booms. Yeah the way you go about the explosions may change, but at the end of the day you're still standing still and still making big booms. If they decided to nerf the explosions in favor of giving the job group support yeah, BLM mains who have unlocked multiple relics are going to be pissed. It's the same deal with GW2, things like scourge alacrity at the cost of res power, barrier potential, and boon corruption is something no one asked for yet here we are. Balance changes are fine, completely redoing playstyles (and screaming on reddit lol) are not.
I feel like the FFXIV comparison is a little apples to oranges. FFXIV has standardized, uncustomizable classes that fill one of three roles - making their balance and class-design far simpler. The combat mechanics are way more standardized as well. Something like heal scourge wouldn't exist in FFXIV in the first place. And people still complain about playstyle changes in FFXIV, because they still happen, just not to the same extent.
@@duncanrobertson6472 FFXIV's system is simpler and much easier to balance I'll admit that, but like with FFXIV elite specs have some kind of signature mechanic that sets them apart. For scourge, no matter how you'd play it, that mechanic was dropping shades and providing unparalleled amounts of barrier. DPS, heal, etc that's what you're signing up for when you main the spec. Similar to FFXIV taking all thought and planning away from SAM's gauge, and HW DRK RIP, messing with core mechanics that attract people to classes in the first place is unacceptable.
@@moody5763 But you must also ask yourself: is the way that class was being played healthy for the game? Because especially in the case of scourge, I don't think so. Shades still function the same but you can't have 3 of them out 24/7. You can't solo carry a raid anymore by just free rezzing over and over again. You can't do tons of barrier without actual investment into healing power anymore. These are all things that made scourge absolutely busted to the point a lot of blind progging used to be done in Scourge stacks. Not to mention barrier, dps and healing are not part of the spec's identity but roles. What you sign up for when playing scourge is getting a kind of sand mage that summons shades to apply effects around. And that hasn't changed with the patch. It still has its core mechanic.
@@Dark_Wizard_of_Mu the existence of legendary gear has nothing to do with the gem store items. And unlimited gathering tools and the rest are just convenience, they don't help you turn the tide of a wvw fight, a raid boss kill, or a pvp match. They are only "winning" if you stretch the definition of the word to such a degree as to render it totally meaningless by removing its ability to create a distinction.
Big agree. Having a wholer understanding of build options allows for a fairer approach to balance. Those most offended about certain changes always seem to be hyperfixated on that class if not spec (e.g. druid mains I know being dissatisifed with the changes beyond "this is bad balance" and treating it like the end of the world, the class is dead, and so on.) Enjoy what you enjoy, but don't make one thing the be-all-end-all of such a rich and diverse meta compared to years prior.
Its ok to tunnel vision on a single spec *if you want* but when people do so they need to be aware of and accept two premises without arguing: 1. their opinions on balance become much lower value. 2. if their class gets changed in whatever way causes them to be upset enough to not play it anymore, they only have themselves to blame. The problem is these people tend to want their cake and eat it too. They want to mono-spec but they reject both of these caveats
No, thats not the "problem". The "Problem" is Anet try to make every class and elit spec the same... A lot ot abilities now function the same across the game... Why every class must have alac and quickness? These two boons are destroying professions uniqueness... Nowaday everybody has boons, dps, and support one way or another... that not so bad, but when you try to balance that, so my druid support or healer is on par with every other support or heal spec... shit start happening and then you fix, the previous fix with other fix so you can fix it later...
@@minakatahizuru i don't. People in this game dislike any change initially because any change is uncomfortable. They can only truly judge after enough time has passed to evaluate the change after they've gotten accustomed to it. If the past is any guide, they will come to prefer the new change almost always.
@@NikeDnT They do have a point, though. Herald is extremely overpowered right now, even Teapot discussed this at length in his latest video about balance. Your point could be better demonstrated by showing several clips of you cycling through different specs/roles, and not just coasting on auto-pilot on the super overpowered class. I'll tell you one thing for sure, you couldn't get away with that low APM on Alac Heal Druid...
@@NikeDnT While I totally agree with your point about encouraging folks to try multiple specs, I think it's counter-productive to not tell the GW2 community (or any community, really) not to speak out when the developer publishes poor balance patches and doesn't think things through. Example: Look at the state of Diablo 4 right now. Their community was in an outrage and spoke out after some very poorly received patch updates. Actually the situation is pretty similar to what's happened in GW2 recently. Blizzard, in a surprise move, did some community outreach, got on camera, held a Q&A session, even apologized, and acknowledged they could do better, and that they will do better, and started hot-fixing stuff. Can you imagine CMC doing that? It's a recent example of the community speaking out and getting results, and a company taking accountability for their shortsightedness and poor design choices. I can't believe I'm saying this, but Anet could take a page from Blizzard's play book. Anet's last few patches were similarly poorly received, and telling the community to be quiet about it isn't going to share the critical feedback Anet needs to hear.
@@crow_buddyhe isn't saying not to criticise or say nothing. What he is trying to do is help the unhinged warrior mains that said they want to quit the game because arc divider got changed and put a stop to the multiple Reddit posts that just end up downvoted anyway. I can't speak for him but that's what I got from this video.
No one can Master all of them? I can play Tempest, Catalyst, Weaver, Harbinger, Scourge, Reaper, Chronomancer, Mirage, Virtuosa, Holosmoth, Scrapper, Mechanist, Deardevil, Deadeye, Specter, Druid, Soulbeast, Renegade, Vindicator, Herald, Bladesworn, Berserker and Bladesworn. Also have played following healers in raid Tempest, Druid, Firebrand, Scrapper, Herald, Renegade, Mechanist, Specter, Scourge, Harbinger and few dead healidng builds. 😂 I think you can Master all builds if you want.
@@zach_ry Fully agree. The point was something about not limiting your vision to just one build and expanding your view to other builds so you would understand more about the game. You could also say don't limit yourself to one game mode like only Strikes and Raid but also try Open World and PvP so you know what the game can offer and so on.
@@Realblack_m0nster 80% yes. 90% no. What is the point of the question? Why specifically 90% and not something more practical? Do you think 30k on Mursaat Overseer is good or bad dps? I have done 30k or higher on Weaver, Holosmith, Mechanist, Specter, Deadeye, Harbinger and Scourge in Mursaat Overseer. I'm more focused of being able to do all roles as needed. Jack of all trades Master of none. I don't care how close of Benchmark I can pull, all I care is can I pull decent damage on Raids against other PUGs. The answer is yes except when we jump to 250kp group where the people pull 90% benchmark dps 😂 You only care about 90% benchmark damage when you try to speed clear or play with static group. Also I can reach 90% on Weaver, is that good enough for you? Weaver is my top dps but I don't play it because adhd, I must play them all and I have no time to focus just on one build. Chronomancer I could not, I did try for few days but got stuck at 32k or 83%
@@xezzeeyou really took my comment personally lol. I think you take this game too seriously. "I think you can master all builds if you want" well if you've truly mastered all those builds then I think it's safe to say the requirement is 90%+ of the benchmark. Good on you for doing good DPS but completely missing the point like someone else said before me.
I dont play gw2 enpugh to have this issue. But I don't think it's fully a player issue from what you have described. I would say it's a lot of feature creep, which is a fundamental issue with game design tbh. Being unwilling to change with the meta comes as a result of having too many options and not wanting to constantly have to be relearning new specs just for them to get nerfed and having to learn something else.
