I got to know Phil Gallagher and his 2 sons when i worked at a GW in Maryland, he was a lovely guy. This video brought back memories of some really awesome people at the GW headquarters in Glen Burnie.
Third edition was bittersweet for me. It was so well written and produced. It proved so successful for Games Workshop, but it's focus on wargaming was the end of them for me. I was still a traditional rpg'er. I missed the content for Traveller, Cthulhu etc. in White Dwarf. I totally understood the need for change, the rpg market had saturated and probably did not bring in the profits that Warhammer did. Bryan Ansell drove GW on and grew it. Luckily, there were still independent shops like Leisure Games to buy from.p
It’s definitely the end of an era, those 3rd edition books read so much like RPG supplements. It’s something of a shame that style and approach was lost in time
The cover of WFRP 1e does certainly feature Gotrek, though intrestingly retroactively. While the scene is very much that which appears in the G&F short story, The Dark Beneath The World (down to the details of individual mutants, secondary characters and the environment), the short story came out 4 years after the cover. Intrestingly, even the first G&F story was published only two years after WFRP and the cover, so it seems like that cover might in fact have been the inspiration for them.
Bill King was such a great influence when it came to Warhammer. Perfect mix of grimdark and humor and creation of redhaired posterboy of the system really sealed the deal for me. Although Drachenfels was good too.
@@Rabarbarzynca Back when I played WFB 3/4 I had my whole Dwarf army painted from inspiration from Bill King's beautiful Dwarf army. Drachenfels was brilliant. Red Thirst is still probably my favourite Warhammer short story. I just recently reread Drachenfels. I still go back and reread the early 1980s/1990s Black Library books that I first read when I was 11 or 12 years old. They really capture the essence of that Old World that still fascinates me to this day.
If you want to find the original iteration of John's warhammer-wielding warrior, you have to dig into the primordial ooze of the pre-slotta era. He was a Chaos Warrior called Uthmog Elvenbane.
Excellent again. So glad the edition got a whole episode as well, you should definitely stick to that for the rest. I started with 3rd Ed, these books hold so much nostalgia me, I’m not sure I’ll ever fully match the excitement I felt as a young (near) teen immersing myself in the old world. I don’t remember many games being played 😂, we were probably too young, though that changed a little with 4th Ed. Can’t wait for the next one.
The 3rd edition books really are something else, product of a creative force at the height of its powers. I absolutely adore 4th, and even later editions, but there’s something very special in that era.
3rd edition is my jam. Especially the Realm of Chaos. The creativity and uniqueness of all the miniatures is just unreal at this time. When I started collecting Warhammer miniatures and material in the 2000s, it was the 3rd edition (and earlier) aesthetic that really spoke to me. Its the best.
Great video. I hope when you finish your definitive history of Warhammer Fantasy series you’ll spend some time on 40K through the editions. Other channels have covered the lore of Warhammer 40,000 (which I think you’ll agree is a masterclass on the unreliable narrator trope), but a history of the game itself would be good to see documented as thoroughly as you’ve done for WFB.
I bought my first White Dwarf in August 1989 and got Warhammer Fantasy Battle 3rd edition for Christmas that year, along with the Skeleton Army box of plastic skeletons. I remember devouring that book back then but my memories of 3,000 point battles are of very long days and quite a few arguments. Looking at the book these days causes me to boggle about quite how dense and complex it is, but I have to acknowledge that it played a big part in letting Warhammer sink its claws into my brain and never really let go.
Ia, ia, Algo'rithm fhtagn.... This is an awesome series, sir! As a personal side note; Jim Bambra wrote one of my very favorite D&D adventures of all time. It was Blade of Vengeance, a solo adventure written for the Dungeons and Dragons Expert set, and it was a thing of beauty. Well balanced, challenging encounters, a real sense of a world of magic and myth with the idea that even deeper mysteries lay just beyond one's reach, and some absolutely gorgeous artwork. You're very right, Jim Bambra needs to be talked about more.
Outstanding, fascinating and fully nostalgic. I still love the feel of the Oldhammer setting and the art at the time, which gave Warhammer its visceral & grim atmosphere and set it so far apart from any other FRPG. Keep at it Jordan
I remember the time all the GW shops suddenly stopped stocking other games, it felt like the end of the world. It made no sense to me at the time for a shop to only support one game, now it does...
The Noble Fur Beast was listening intently to you during the intro lol. I agree some editions are such key stones in the history of WHFB that more deep detail is required and let's be honest who doesn't love a deep analysis of WHFB 😂
The Enemy Within campaign was fantastic, it had a really brooding sense of darkness about it, and led to my mates and I having some seriously spooky games of WFRP that were huge fun.
Wonderful video, I love your style (and Martha of course). I still have my WHFB 3rd ed and WFRP books and they are two of my most cherished items. Thank you for the history lesson!
for no other reson then my own childhood i'm very happy they moved to notts. From a baby into my now 20's my mum would take me to warhammer world every other weekend, now every other month sadly, no matter how bad things ever got i had a second home. still have random display moddels and terain peces that they would give us when it came time to replace them.
Great video. I didn’t start playing WFB until 4th edition, where the Undead and the Dwarves were my armies. I can still remember my best friends face the first time I fielded Nagash 😌 good times lol
Thanks for the video. Great watch. Would love to see a video on StD and tLaD, I always loved the skirmish game with warband generator in there. "Oh, you started with 3 hobgoblins and a chaos marauder.... I rolled an Emperor Dragon..."
I have a wall of heroes in my bathroom, much like a barbershop, and alongside Poe, Lovecraft and Clark Ashton Smith, I have a picture of Bryan Ansell in a muscle shirt sitting with his Chaos army.
Awesome video. I'm currently reading Slaves to Darkness, having picked up both Realms of Chaos books from Warhammer World a few weeks back. I'd also bought a copy of WFB 3rd edition just yesterday (because Slaves to Darkness keeps referencing it, and I felt like I was missing out on things) and then this video shows up in my recommend list 😁
@David Clegg does WW still have reprint copies of Lost and the Damned for sale? Oh man, if so, that is good news. I’ve got the Slaves to Darkness reprint but haven’t managed to get a copy of Lost and the Damned yet. I’m going there in June/July (once in a lifetime trip) so I’ll have my fingers and toes crossed that they still have some when I get there. 🤞🤞🤞
Interesting, this brings back fond memories. My friend and I used to buy, paint and wargame a lot during this period. I joined a GW competition and lost when I rolled a non-stop stream of 11/12s and my entire army ran off the field of battle. Totally ridiculous. That was the end and I got shot of the lot. Now I'm 49, I'm sat here watching this and playing Total War: Warhammer 3 :)
Excellent series! Despite my love for the "Middlehammer" era of 4th thru 6th Eds I never took the time to get to know the true and full history of this game I love so much. BRAVO and please keep this ball rolling!
Well done sir, well done indeed. Looking forward for your in-depth takes of the StD/LatD books, as well as a similar series for 40K - if and when you are done with WHF of course!
24:03 - Correction: the walls in Mighty Fortress aren't plastic. They are styrofoam. It's the accessories that are plastic; ladders, doors, etc. I have two of them in the boxes.
That is correct. I had that fortress back then in my childhood years. Third edition was my very first WFB book. I was hooked 😂 No matter where I went I had my paints and miniatures with me. always painting and planning my next grand army or reading Warhammer books 🤣
Great stuff! I still have both the Chaos books which were so rich in content, I mainly used it for rpg scenarios for any dark grim settings. I particularly enjoyed the flavour fiction in the Lost and the Damned, of the chaos siege of the doomed city Praag.
Another well crafted and delivered episode. In addition to your thorough research and finely tuned delivery you avoid a problem so many GW channels have, an axe to grind. Many such histories are chock full of the presenters grievances and grudges, trying to convince the listener to join their crusade. You provide the timelines, including the conflicts, but you never ask people to choose a side. Your programs are entertaining and never slip into soapboxing and gas baggery. I look forward to the next and I am there if you decide to descend into the depths of Chaos! Be wel
I’m sure some of my favourites slip through here and there, but it all feels like such an interesting story that it doesn’t need my feelings on top. Outside of, y’know, loving this old world!
@@jordansorcery I never mind positivity; I cannot understand why someone would spend hours creating a video that tells how much they hate something. I want producers to tell me what they love and maybe I will love it too
Fairly sure Kaleb Daark eventually became Malus Darkblade? I think there used to be another cartoon strip character 'Thod The Barbarian' or something who was immensely powerful and prone to causing accidents in all around him obliviously especially goblins, villains and the like. A great big muscled barbarian with a tiny head... I think that's the thing about early GW: It was chock full of artists, writers, creatives and the variety of creativity from art, cartoons, rpgs, mixing of genres, history and then game design mixed with some business savvy people: An explosion of creative energy and in turn company profits and growth. No wonder. I'd say the problem with the modern GW = Corporate phase of a company. There's so much less creativity and so much more "bottom line" behind decisions. This video was very educational: I thought I knew a fair amount but this extended way beyond what I knew. I'm full of appreciation for your research and construction of the history and people and salient points and digging up so much enjoyable "evidence", too! Thank you.
Me and a friend have been slowly recording a podcast (as of yet unreleased) where we go through this book in ridiculous depth (and make a lot of childish jokes while doing so). There's so much content in the 3rd Ed fantasy book that it's unbelievable. I'm not sure it would have been much fun to play though haha
I still gave the boxed version 2 and the book version 3. We played version 3 at a large Derby convention and gad a lot of fun. Orks and Skaven verses elves 😄
Blown away by the quality of these videos Jordan 🔥⚔️ You’re a great presenter too. Have you thought about doing anything around the grim dark style and it’s impact on sci-fi? Would love to see that.
Thank you so much Jordan, I really appreciate the support! I think that's an ace idea! I definitely plan to take a look at some 40k game history at some point, but the specifics of the grim dark impact would warrant some real research. I'm expecting it to come up, at least a little, in the later Warhammer Fantasy histories as there was an impact there too
Warhammer 3rd Edition and WHRP 1st Edition combined are the best lore and atmosphere of Warhammer Fantasy. Imagine a animated series about this combination, with the colors and the architectures of John Blanche, the Demons and the Elves of Tony Ackland, The Undeads of Ian Miller , the humans and the Beastmen of Martin Mckenna and the Dwarfs of Paul Bonner. And as soundtracks Music of Black Sabbath,Saxon, Manowar, Coven , Cirith Ungol, Iron Maiden ,Warlock and Bolt Thrower.
It is a pity that Oldhammer's era did not last long, only nine years. Who knows what could still be pulled out of him. No seriously. Warhammer before 4th edition wasn't just three different editions. It was just another world. Who knows what it could have become if Ansell had always remained in charge. Maybe something truly glorious. I noticed that since Kirby took the reins, Warhammer for a while lost that aesthetic that mixed gloomy, gothic, and misery, found in the first edition of WHRP, which in my opinion best expresses the atmosphere of the Oldhammer, together with Realm of Chaos. Especially in the fifth edition, I noticed a "joyful" push, I don't mean mainstream, but let's say, oh my God, I don't know how to express it, "simplified" seems to me a bad term. Then of course, the gloom returns in Mordheim and with the sixth edition, however in my opinion, many opportunities and concepts have been wasted since the fourth edition. An interview with Ansell and Priestley should be done, to perhaps discover all those ideas that perhaps would have been fantastic, both artistically and lore-wise, but which unfortunately died even before being born. Who knows what Bretonnia would have looked like, perhaps still a cavalry army, but supported by criminally used firearms and artillery, and perhaps under the command of a narcissistic and arrogant king, who is rarely seen on the battlefield. Perhaps Karl Franz would have continued to be an aged ruler, without being the super-general with the magic hammer that he is now. In short, simpler than the current atmosphere. What do you think about it ?
I think that’s a very good point. The earliest version of the Warhammer world is quite different to what it became in a great many ways. Kirby’s initial direction definitely pushed things towards a more commercial and child friendly look and feel, with the subsequent shift to higher fantasy and ‘bigger’ models over time. We’ll definitely touch on this in later videos in the series. For me, it’s always a case of grabbing the bits I like from each version of the game and world, so that ‘my’ Warhammer is all the stuff I love most!
Such a good video! I’m coming over from the US this summer and am bringing a copy of 3rd edition with me, as a meet up with Bryan Ansell is part of the plan. Looking forward to meeting the man himself. Favorite part of the video: spotting the continuity error of the Grudge of Drong box in the background moving from the top of the stack to the bottom and back up. It’s these kind of Easter eggs that make your channel the pinnacle of entertainment. ;-) that and all the research. And cats.
Cheers Dan! Amazing trip you’ve got planned, I’m hoping to get down to the Foundry one day myself! As for continuity errors - that was Martha’s responsibility!
I have only played Warhammer in the form of the PC game Dawn of War, yet I find this video very intersting and I love looking at the old black & white illustrations. But why aren't you petting your cat? 😅 the history lesson can wait.
Another great video. Played loads of 3rd edition. 3,000 point games were not bad if players knew their armies like the back of a map of the Old World. Now go do Realm of Chaos!!!!
So the old warhmmar didn't emphazie army lists as the way to organize your miniatures in the game? I really dig the idea of an open-ended, player customized army that dosen't adhere to either lore or specific theme! Just different kinds of infantry, cavalry, heroes and so on. Making an army of orcs and undead would be really fun!
It was a lot more about what miniatures you had, wanted to play with, or the scenario suggested. There were points values provide to help get to roughly even sides, burn second edition has an entire page explaining why they don’t really work! Supplements like Warhammer Armies for 3rd edition really solidified the trend that was already happening though - formalised army lists with clearer unit types and organisation, and of course a more robust (though still fallible) points system. For me though, every edition benefits from playing what you and your opponent want - points he damned! I’m all in favour of scenario and story led games, especially if it gets us armies of Orcs and Undead!
@@jordansorcery those were the days , every thing you both had, rules an optional extra to dice rolling , good vs evil , random units of 1 centaur , the donkey that killed a Balrog (true story)
Great video, I just want to make one correction. The mighty fortress was not plastic, it's made out of foam. Only the doors and a few other accessoires were plastic.
Completely agree. 4/5 & 6/7 were inexplicably linked from a version point, arguably each of the later versions being more of a 4.5 and 6.5 respectively. I’ve always loved 3rd if only down to the artwork in the book. It was that that really fired my imagination.
@@jordansorcery In the red border "scrawlings" on the cover of Slaves to Darkness, there are "hidden" letters. (one letter in each of the boxes). Together, the spell out a sentences, something like "Slay their souls" or something along those lines ... I don't have the book with me right now, so I'm not sure about the exact sentence.
another great video ! just a side not on the army size of 3000 pnts in the 3rd ed era. It sounds like a lot but in that time unit costs were very high. Just as an example one chaos warrior ..with no upgrades was around 75pnts!
7:30 1. This is my wfrp core rulebook. There are many like it, but this one is mine. 2. My wfrp core rulebook is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. 3. wfrp core rulebook, without me, is useless. Without my wfrp core rulebook, I am useless. I must play my wfrp core rulebook true. 4. My Warhammer weighs a ton, when I'm swinging strike to stun! 5. GAMES WORKSHOP!!!! YOU F@£$ING LEGENDS!!!! Thank you! 6. Jordan Sorcery... Thanks for the content.
19:48 Nagash did exist. I can confirm that he is sat in my underpants drawer in pieces. Wishing he was “dead dead” in some kind of time paradox situation waiting to be summoned to lead the hordes of the undead.
Scene stealing familiar. Enjoyed this installment through WH's rich history, surprised to find the cover artist of Woof-rup was famous for dinosaur illustrations .. sounds suspicious to me, did he spend time in Lustria? Malal .. heartbreaker, the Kaleb Daark strips were great, I was looking forward to learning more of the strangest of the dark gods but alas. Like the exit, made me laugh.
Looking back now, I feel privillaged to have enjoyed these golden years of GW. I started with Heroquest and Advanced Heroquest and quickly moved onto WFRP and still have all those books inc ROC. WFB while great was ab it out of the reach of me at that time although I still had the book. The miniatures were just too epensive. When 4th edition WFB arrived everything changed and I can still feel the anger now that existed among the fans at how the world had been changed. It felt like a betrayal back then at that young age as WFRP was dropped and the whole Hero hammer thing began. Fans were very much split into two camps of those who considered the REAL Warhammer world and this new 'thing' with Karl Franz flying around on a Griffon. Even when the internet got going you had the 'flame wars' where fans would pull each other apart arguing about it all... Seems strange now how I still care about all this stuff!
I spend a huge amount of time on 3rd edition ... I still think Slaves to Darkness is one of the bast fantasy gaming supplements ever produced, for any game system. I dropped out when 4th was published. For some reason, it lacked the flavour of 3rd edition.
24:05 "In the box there was a collection of plastic walls, gates, and towers." Sure, polystyrene foam is indeed a plastic but I think saying that the contents were plastic is kinda misleading for most as the term plastic tends to conjure up injection molded polystyrene (the hard miniature plastic) or the softer "bucket plastic", polyethylene. Therefore I would've rather said the box consisted of polystyrene foam castle with some injection molded plastic bits, like laffers and doors, added to the mix.
@@jordansorcery Ah, I missed that but good job mate! Plus, polystyrene foam IS plastic so the video ain't wrong... just kinda confusing for most of us. ;)
Indeed it was! Kirby did a few freelance projects for GW in the 80s, including a cover for a book that never got released - The Tower of Screaming Death! Awesome Lies has a great post about that one: awesomeliesblog.wordpress.com/2017/09/08/lost-warhammer-tower-of-screaming-death/
@@jordansorcery Actually, I'd love a video about the random artists better known elsewhere that did periodic gw things. Likewise, the stuff the core gw artists did elsewhere. I remember stumbling on a John blanche drawing of the battle of five armies in my Tolkien bestiary. (Fyi if you are desperate for ideas and all XD)