The Man Jesus Christ Created the World

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@ChurchoftheEternalLogos - The Beauty of Logos Theology with @JonathanPageau: • The Beauty of Logos Th...
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19 авг 2023

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Комментарии : 225

@JonathanPageauClips 9 месяцев назад

Watch the full version: @ChurchoftheEternalLogos - The Beauty of Logos Theology with @JonathanPageau: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-jIzx2Nb6z_s.html

@nordfreiheit 9 месяцев назад

This is what the Occultists need but aren't even aware of, ironically.

@Cavirex 8 месяцев назад

As a former occultist and now Orthodox catechumen, agreed.

@nordfreiheit 8 месяцев назад

@Cavirex God bless you. Seek the kingdom of God, through Jesus Christ, and you shall be more fulfilled than you ever thought possible.

@codywall08 7 месяцев назад

This is such an odd comment to me. Do you even know what “occult” means? Have you actually read any “occult” teachings? You might be shocked to find that they say the exact same things Pageau is saying. Manly Hall points to the purification of the inside of the cup through the teachings of Christ. Steiner does the same. Albert Pike is taken completely out of context. By modern standards, Origen was an “occultist”. We need to be very careful with labels.

@nordfreiheit 7 месяцев назад

@codywall5452 Yes, my friend. I was deeply enmeshed in the occult for about 15 years. I diligently practiced and studied the works of Regardie, Crowley, Levi, Blavatsky, Hall, Bardon, and many others. The reason I made this comment is because occultists are constantly after the Truth- yet they are after something much more hidden than what God has revealed to us. If we can simply accept that Christ crucified is the fulfillment of all our aspirations, creative potential, and suffering, then we will have gained tremendous insight into the inner workings of reality. Indeed, using this revelation, we can attain much greater knowledge than any Occultist before us.

@furikuri630 6 месяцев назад

Exactly my thoughts as soon as the Scriptures clicked with me.

@owensullivan252 7 месяцев назад

I am only now learning about Orthodoxy. I really hope that someday I can understand what the heck these guys are talking about, because it sounds amazing

@oldhollywoodbriar 9 месяцев назад

I recently figured out the secret of the pyramid. It brought me close to God and I started going to a local orthodox church in Hollywood. I was surprised to find a painting of God the father depicted with a gold pyramid behind him and Jesus (the logos) with the round gold circle. It was such a beautiful message. Orthodox iconography is truly beautiful.

@sunshinepadawan 9 месяцев назад

What ??????

@danayittsegaye375 9 месяцев назад

We have one icon of God the Father with a triangle halo in our church (Ethiopian Orthodox church) too.

@oldhollywoodbriar 9 месяцев назад

@@sunshinepadawan I have 2 videos on the Secret of the Pyramid and a short on “The Secret Life of Gold.” If you want to know. Once you know the secret, you can’t unknow it so choose wisely.

@oldhollywoodbriar 9 месяцев назад

@@danayittsegaye375 awesome! What does it mean to you?

@Cyrus_II 9 месяцев назад

Icons of God the Father are not Orthodox despite some orthodox Churches having them.

@acrxsls1766 9 месяцев назад

A good way to look at this is that everytime "Lord" is mentioned in the Old Testament, it's talking about the Logos (Christ).

@leondbleondb 9 месяцев назад

Interesting idea. I'll test it out.

@domega7392 9 месяцев назад

What about the Lord said to my Lord?

@kaden7374 9 месяцев назад

@@domega7392nah bro, second lord is lowercase

@domega7392 9 месяцев назад

@@kaden7374 Well regardless the translation you use, the first Lord is referring to whom? Then this post of false.

@kaden7374 9 месяцев назад

@@domega7392 my apologies, the 2nd “Lord” also begins upper case, but there is still a difference. Often translated as “the LORD said to my Lord.” The first LORD is translated from “YHWH,” the Father. The second Lord is translated from “Adonai,” which is referring to the Messiah. Speaking of how Christ sits at the right hand of the Father. Not really contradictory or false at all

@miastupid7911 9 месяцев назад

Ο Χριστός μαζι σου Ιωαναθαν!

@FrJohnBrownSJ 9 месяцев назад

Mystagogy is a hell of a drug! Hahahaha seriously though, this clip is awesome. It captures the delight of knowing the truth of the faith!

@gracefullyyours6508 9 месяцев назад

This is one of the most profound sections of the interview that you too had. Hoping for more.

@rokanfiction-benjackson7146 9 месяцев назад

"In the wake of the story of Christ" is exactly how I would describe my own work.

@timetosing-pe2vo 9 месяцев назад

I really really want to understand this, but I do not. Can you please ask Matthieu to write a book about it. Thank you

@poppyflorist 3 месяца назад

Just read the Bible, at least two times.

@melaniereeder2349 2 месяца назад

I was going to comment the same thing! I feel like I’m on the cusp of understanding but I don’t.

@christopherlin8661 8 месяцев назад

jesus on the cross creating the world = jesus living the human experience of all humanity

@djangobojangles5979 9 месяцев назад

Wait, you're telling me the man, Jesus Christ of Nazareth created the world we see today- planned it out, planned to incarnate, do His work and take us all home? Are you also saying that all this that He created was always in the imagination of God as a man even before He was done His work? Almost as if He met Himself at the end of His work of salvation in the beginning..

@DionysusAlexanderChrist 9 месяцев назад

Peterson lead me here, I just want to say thanks guys

@michaelart4878 5 месяцев назад

The Jordan, Euphrates, Bow and EL-bow are all rivers 🙌 ALLELUIA 🙌 A-men' 🌿

@Mika-El- 9 месяцев назад

I recommend A different christianity by Robin Amis, a student of St Paisios. The esoteric level of christianity is a must to enter step by step if christianity will be relevant at all and be truly helpful. Else many people will be stuck with biblical literal conceptions that will just fall dead to the floor.

@roseroselyne9045 9 месяцев назад

The biblical instruction is profitable in all aspects of civilization to survive.your going to see what happens when people turn away from God,and the Father lifts his hedge of protection and let's us be are own Gods until we almost destroy all life,and the Messiah comes to save his people to set up his eternal Kingdom.

@acekoala457 9 месяцев назад

Man will always desire Communion with God. Christianity has been, is and always will be relevant.

@Mika-El- 9 месяцев назад

@@acekoala457 Well, both yes and no, as I see it. But I agree whole heartedly in essence.

@MrWesford 9 месяцев назад

What is wrong with literal conceptions?

@Mika-El- 9 месяцев назад

@@MrWesford They are most often prone to worship the finger that points to the heavenly glory.

@lucduchien 9 месяцев назад

This view also makes sense of the elevation of Mary. If the cross is the emptying of the sands of the hourglass to the lowest point, if it is the total depravity of time, and if God takes this moment and declares it the pinnacle point of His Glory (like flipping the hour glass upside-down), then the one who followed him to the cross and was wounded in her heart by His pain is the one who is also elevated with him in Glory. May we all be so likewise wounded. Pray for us, Theotokos.

@Joxxol 9 месяцев назад

No one shares in His glory. What He suffered on the cross, He suffered alone. Mary is blessed, but she is merely a slight twinkle lost in the the glaring light of her Son. Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders; and the number of them was myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice, “Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing.”

@roseroselyne9045 9 месяцев назад

@@Joxxolyour right about that,that's why it's important to read the Bible with the holy Spirit to not believe false doctrines like that from churchianity

@coolcatbaron 9 месяцев назад

Rom 8:29-30: "For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn within a large family. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified." Glory belongs only to God, so how can we reap glory according to this verse, which says that we will be glorified? The world glorified in the original Greek is "doxo" from which we also derive the world doxology, which is a word describing the praising of God. Only God deserves praise and glory, so how can we as mere created beings also be glorified? Well, let's look at Christ. He is fully divine and existed always with the father, but he was incarnated at a point of time. So his humanity had an begining. He was fully human and yet also fully God simultaneously. In Him both natures were united in one hypostasis. The same applies for the believer that will be glorified. Through faith in Christ we participate not only in His perfect sinless humanity, but also in His divinity. So Mary and the saints, though not God by nature, participate in Christ's divinity. Thus the reverance to them is justified. They are not mere humans anymore and all the glory they do deserve is of God.

@danieldefonce 9 месяцев назад

Good point about our Mother, Mary. I would go further and say this also applies to the Beloved Disciple, John the Revelator, who remained with Mary at the Cross and was mysteriously bequeathed sonship and guardianship of Mary by the Son of God on the Cross. “Behold, your mother.” Like John the Beloved, personally witnessing the crucifixion and the resurrection, was spiritually adopted into the holy family by the saving Word of God, we believers and followers of Jesus are also Beloved of God, brothers/sisters of Jesus, and children of Mary. May we, like John the Apostle, having been commanded by God the Son, be beloved disciples of Jesus, through properly honoring His Mother and our Mother and rightly serving His Bride the Church.

@Joxxol 9 месяцев назад

@@coolcatbaron You will never share in the glory of the sinless lamb that was slain. Worthy is the Lamb. You will never share in the glory of the crown of thorns. Worthy is the Lamb. You will never share in the glory of the scars. Worthy is the Lamb. His Glory is His Glory, and our glory is His glory. There is an impassable gulf between what "is" and what is derived. Blessed Mary is on this side of the divide with us. She has grown into a distraction for many millions.

@AnthonyStoic 9 месяцев назад

I found COTEL through this stream, this dude is amazing. God bless you both!

@mr.caleblynn9246 9 месяцев назад

Amazing observations!

@ziriguidum88 9 месяцев назад

Just... Thank you

@workmansong 7 месяцев назад

Very pleased to hear you mention my friend Tim Patitsas at 9:29 - such a brilliant man. Love this clip Jonathan, thanks!

@seanbrittmusic6152 9 месяцев назад

Phenomenal

@setsappa1540 9 месяцев назад

Thank you for talking about specialy this! Though, I am faceplanting to the language barrier whenever "emptying" is used in this context. Dicitionaries are of no help and context itself.. no. Not even that. What does it mean here? Jonathan keeps using it as explanation for years but its still not landing on my Slavic ears.

@samwilt5620 9 месяцев назад

“Adam came to the Tree of Life and saw Christ on the Cross and he couldn’t handle it… freaked out and ran away covering himself.” Incredible. Humanity has been fleeing from that central truth that Adam saw ever since.

@littlefishbigmountain 9 месяцев назад

And covering themselves in clothes made out of leaves that you can’t even move right in, when God’s idea was leather.

@erica_mSoFla 9 месяцев назад

I reeeeaaalllly want to understand any of this 😩🙏🏼

@canadianamateurfilmdude 9 месяцев назад

Just keep watching his videos. Also, read about "the nous" and look up study guides on Maximus the Confessor

@rainking50 9 месяцев назад

The fact you are here at all is a step in the right direction. :) What do you find confusing?

@erica_mSoFla 9 месяцев назад

@@rainking50 thanks! I don’t understand the mechanism of the resurrection. How is the self-sacrifice of Christ redemptive? When they say “Christ created the world,” what aspect of the world did he create? Because I’m really trying to shed a modern materialist mindset, I’m aware of the things people say about Christ, but still want to know HOW.

@rainking50 9 месяцев назад

@@erica_mSoFla Massive questions for a comments discussion, but I'll give it a try! :) 1. Christ's sacrifice is redemptive because there is a mechanism built into reality that requires sin (a placeholder definition: action that does not align with truth, beauty, goodness) be atoned or paid for. Think of it as an accounting system. Up until Christ, payments were made with a variety of sacrifices. In the accounting system, imagine those sacrifices paid off debt as it was acquired so it was fated to continue indefinitely. It's important to note that the value of each sacrifice is associated with how meaningful it is. Christ's sacrifice was so profoundly meaningful that it paid off all sin debt, current, past and future. Lots more to say about all of this but does that make sense so far?

@erica_mSoFla 8 месяцев назад

@@rainking50 I’m on board, yes! 😅

@Rubberglass 6 месяцев назад

The Word became flesh and dealt among us.

@L2A815 9 месяцев назад

The triple irony ✝️☦️✝️

@L2A815 9 месяцев назад

Now Jonathan knows how the triple rainbow guy felt….

@Ac-ip5hd 8 месяцев назад

☦️☦️☦️

@robertjarman4261 9 месяцев назад

As someone who did a degree in theology back in the late 80s at Durham University now distrust so called clever men.David Jenkins was a Bishop much like the Yank Sprong.

@tomek9401 6 месяцев назад

The concept of uncreated energies is the main thing that keeps me closer to Aquinas and Cusa. Especially the latter came up with an elegant synthesis of Eastern and Western thought. Palamas tried too hard to defend the platonic perspective, overdoing it in the end. In this regard Palamas is almost a mirror image of Meister Eckhart.

@etheretherether 5 месяцев назад

Maximos the Confessors interpretation of Palamas resolves that Platonic tendency.

@jiqian 23 дня назад

I'm confused... If anything St. Palamas is generally treated as rather anti-platonic, and from reading him I agree with this consensus (to the extent I can say I am in agreement with him, but find myself disliking Plato), how come you say he overdid a Platonic perspective?

@tomek9401 22 дня назад

@@jiqian the uncreated energies were a necessary add-on for Palmas to account for the lack of act within God. But Aristotle rightly pointed that Act is God. Palamas and Aquinas resemble a lot the ancient debate between Plato and Aristotle, albeit on different, Christian ground.

@jiqian 22 дня назад

@@tomek9401 Ah, forgive my confusion, but after giving your mention of Meister Eckhart and St. Palamas as akin to each other some thought, I think I see what you mean. Correct if I'm wrong: You claim that to say God transcends His act, is "Platonic", and to identify Him with it, is "Aristotelian". If that's what you meant, I was confused because "overtly Platonic" made me think you were putting him rather strictly in line with Platonic thought. I'll refrain from arguing about if Palamas or Aquinas are right or wrong, haha, but I just found that particular assertion strange. But I will mention I find it unfair to reduce these theologians to that so-common Aristotle-Plato spectrum... That's all.

@tomek9401 22 дня назад

@@jiqian I admit made it brutally condensed and way too simplified. Probably RU-vid comments section is not the most appropriate place to share such insights, hard to elaborate. Idealism and realism have weighed on Christian metaphysics but Christianity is totally different to pagan philosophy. So yes, Palamas was anit-Plato in that sense. As you suggested, I had in mind the concept of God that considers the absolute Act as a proposal that would inevitably change God into some kind of motion, or change. I reckon this was Palamas concerns, and some valid ones. But God is a living Being, there is no motion, no time, no economy, but still there is 'dynamism' or vitality, within God. This the central problem that in my understanding Cusa more elegantly proposes or unpacks on the ground of the theological debate.

@cameronreed1411 9 месяцев назад

"As the Creator, Christ constructed the universe, yet in little Galilee He was known merely as “the carpenter’s son.” (Matt. 13:55.) In fact, the Lord of the universe was without honor even in His own Nazarene countryside. Though astonished at His teachings, his neighbors “were offended at him.” (Mark 6:3.) Even meek Jesus “marvelled because of their unbelief.” (Mark 6:6.)" Irony: The Crust on the Bread of Adversity By Elder Neal A. Maxwell Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

@ronishchaudhary 9 месяцев назад

If God incarnates as a man in Jesus, what if He does the same as YOU?

@Aaron-xb4rq 9 месяцев назад

And what if ALL of creation is incarnation?

@floridaman318 9 месяцев назад

Silly me. I forgot I can walk on water.

@Aaron-xb4rq 9 месяцев назад

@@floridaman318 It’s more a statement about your nature, not one’s ability to perform specific miracles or have mystical experiences.

@McRingil 5 месяцев назад

Isn`t it kinda unorthodox to ascribe creation to human nature of Jesus? Jesus didn`t create the world as a human, humanity isn`t changeless and eternal, Jesus` Divinity is. We have dyophysitism to distinguish these and don`t fall into contradiction. St Maximus could have meant that the world was created for the sake of Incarnation. But human nature is not the cause of the world. Divine nature is.

@francestaylor9156 2 месяца назад

No but He created the world we live in since His existence. We determine time and events based on when Jesus existed. He is literally the marker of time in human history that we base history on. It’s not the end of the Roman Empire. It’s the life of Christ. And the entire world uses that marker of time because of the dominance of the Christian worldview through various civilizations in history. And that’s just ONE aspect of how much He’s impacted our reality. His teachings are still spread far and wide even in this secular world.

@tgrogan6049 Месяц назад

Of course, Jonathan is wrong! There are two persons unconfused within the one nature. The human nature of Christ did not exist from all eternity and did not "Create the world" otherwise the man Jesus was uncreated and hence there is no human nature of Christ. The Council of Chalcedon refutes this error.

@johnnyd2383 2 месяца назад

Title of this video is heretical in a sense that at the time of creation, Son of God was not incarnate and thus did not have human nature besides His divine nature. In other words, incarnation of the Lord has it's beginning in time but has no end, just as all other humans have beginning in time and no end. The humane nature of Christ was created and began in time, where He is both uncreated and eternal.

@RedpilledApologetics 9 месяцев назад

You are an “Apollinarian”, so am I… Apollinarius was brilliant. He was right. The MAN Jesus is uncreated. Amen. The incarnation is an entrance into time with that nature into genetics. The nature was what inspired the creation of Adam. It’s in God The Son

@bradleyperry1735 9 месяцев назад

Neither of them is an Apollinarian.

@ready1fire1aim1 9 месяцев назад

What is the heresy of two powers in heaven? The basic heresy involved interpreting scripture to say that a principal angelic or hypostatic manifestation in heaven was equivalent to God. The earliest heretics believed in two complementary powers in heaven, while later heretics believed in two opposing powers in heaven. "Deus" means "God", "Dea" means "Goddess", and "Dei" could either mean "gods" (plural) or "God's" (possessive) based on context. The Hebrew counterparts to the Latin above are El, Elah and Elohim. The Elohist uses the possessive context for Elohim (except when referencing the false Elohim). The Yahwist, Priestly and Deuteronomist use the plural context for Elohim (except when referencing the true Elohim). The Bible isn't about El/Theos/Deus or whatever language you want to say the title (not a name) meaning God. The Bible is about Elohim. Good vs evil Elohim, True vs false Elohim, Chosen vs adopted Elohim, Necessary vs contingent Elohim, Genesis 1 Elohim vs Genesis 2 Yahweh Elohim. Theology comes from combining two Greek words: Theos, meaning God, and Logos, meaning Word or rational thought. [The Word is Elohim from Genesis 1] (not to be confused with Yahweh Elohim, the false Elohim, from Genesis 2) Compare John 1: 1-5 with Genesis 1: 1-5: John 1: 1-5 Names of God Bible The Word Becomes Human 1 In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was already with God in the beginning. 3 Everything came into existence through him. Not one thing that exists was made without him. 4 He was the source of life, and that life was the light for humanity. 5 The light shines in the dark, and the dark has never extinguished it. Genesis 1: 1-5 Names of God Bible The Creation 1 In the beginning Elohim created heaven and earth. 2 The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep water. The Ruach Elohim was hovering over the water. 3 Then Elohim said, “Let there be light!” So there was light. 4 Elohim saw the light was good. So Elohim separated the light from the darkness. 5 Elohim named the light day, and the darkness he named night. There was evening, then morning-the first day. Hebrews 11 Names of God Bible 3 Faith convinces us that God created the world through his word. This means what can be seen was made by something that could not be seen. Genesis 2 Names of God Bible 2 Heaven and earth and everything in them were finished. 2 By the seventh day ELOHIM had finished the work he had been doing. On the seventh day he stopped the work he had been doing. 3 Then ELOHIM blessed the seventh day and set it apart as holy, because on that day he stopped all his work of creation. The Creation of Man and Woman 4 This is the account of heaven and earth when they were created, at the time when YAHWEH ELOHIM made earth and heaven.

@ready1fire1aim1 9 месяцев назад

Note verse 4 below (this is Isaiah talking about Yahweh) "seen any god except you": Isaiah 64 Names of God Bible 64 If only you would split open the heavens and come down! The mountains would quake at your presence. 2 Be like the fire that kindles brushwood and makes water boil. Come down to make your name known to your enemies. The nations will tremble in your presence. 3 When you did awe-inspiring things that we didn’t expect, you came down and the mountains quaked in your presence. 4 No one has ever heard, no one has paid attention, and no one has seen any god except you. You help those who wait for you. Compare to: John 1 Names of God Bible 18 No one has ever seen God. God’s only Son, the one who is closest to the Father’s heart, has made him known. and: John 6 Names of God Bible 46 I’m saying that no one has seen the Father. Only the one who is from God has seen the Father. and: 1 John 4 Names of God Bible 12 No one has ever seen God. If we love each other, God lives in us, and his love is perfected in us.

@franciscafazzo3460 28 дней назад

Name one episode where Mary is mentioned. The way you speak about her. You can only use symbols in non didactic narrative parts of scripture that you can twist around. I'm all for symbols if the prescription resists their symbols. We have a whole doctrinal treatise in Romans and the Phoebe's and colossions. You speak nothing about. What do you know about the conciliation of the secret of the evangel? L, or what is the mystery of the one body you glorify, Mary and call her your mother. The scripture never speaks about her the way you do

@symbolicmeta1942 9 месяцев назад

Sad I didn’t get to read the Bible without spoilers being all around me in the Catholic Church…. By the time I read the gospels I already knew so it didn’t come as a surprise. Maybe the Protestants have a point😅

@cheeseface6328 9 месяцев назад

That's a weird take. You should know the stories in the Bible as early as possible.

@symbolicmeta1942 8 месяцев назад

@@cheeseface6328 yes, but I mean I feel like it would have been more impactful if I read the Old Testament all the way through, or at least the law+chronicles, and then learned about the gospel. So much depth is missed out on if you just read the New Testament and treat the Old Testament as optional reading….. plus I feel like not knowing about Jesus until you get to the New Testament would make it hit deeper than if you always knew it has a happy ending before you start reading…. Like you can have a deeper sense of the longing for the messiah and the joyousness of his coming this way…

@stevendouglas3781 6 месяцев назад

Spoilers is an odd concept to invoke. The Bible is not a novel and church isn’t book club. The Protestants do not have a point.

@denniszaychik8625 9 месяцев назад

Jonathan and the Church of the Eternal Logos being slaves of the Miracle as always. Although to be honest if they prefer being servants of an eternal curse like relationship then good for them, who are we to judge them?

@Tou-Immanuel 9 месяцев назад

What are you a slave to?

@denniszaychik8625 9 месяцев назад

@@Tou-Immanuel The great and eternal nothing where existence and non-existence go hand in hand. Although to be rather fair I am not really it's slave for I am not bound to it and it doesn't want me to follow a "right" path. It just exists while at the same time changing when necessary and I just do the same. So in a ironic way I am not a slave to anything. Unlike Jonathan with numerous other Miracle worshippers and the atheist or anti-religious extremists that he mentions in his videos for even though they don't realize it they are also slaves of the Miracle's deceptions.

@Tou-Immanuel 9 месяцев назад

@@denniszaychik8625 Well, I don’t actually know if I understood your well crafted response, but here is what came to my mind. You seem to be a deep thinker, and “they” tend to deconstruct every abstract idea/thought in order to understand them better. Now you have a complex “thought” called God that have been studied since the dawn of civilisation. A very complex thought indeed, a being tied to infinity and absolute truth, a personal intellect that created what we see today. A problem that you “enlighten thinker” seem fit to deconstruct, only to find not enlightenment or an angelic being even but a Great Eternal Nothing. Perhaps reflecting the nothingness in your soul when all you do is deconstruct even the highest meanings in life. There is your prize. Nothing or eternity. Most normal people have an instinct about eternity and call it God, for we did not come from nothing. But the conscious thinker who call normal people fools simply calls it Nothing.

@denniszaychik8625 9 месяцев назад

@@Tou-Immanuel Thank you for your response. However you missed the mark when describing me. Also it's kind of funny that you used the word normal especially in regards to people who believe in God because the term normal is a concept that we use differently depending on the situation. As for God and higher purpose I do believe that they exist just not in the way "normal" people do. To me it is a unique gift which our species has gained over time through evolution. The eternal desire of the human mind to strive for higher things and create different models that aid us in understanding and sometimes even changing reality. God cannot be eternity for he needs to come from somewhere and that somewhere was and is Nothing. God ironically enough is us for he is a reflection of our consciousness and the ability to perceive the world while our true creator and mother of reality itself is Nothing or the Void. Also I think you forgot to read the last part of my above comment for in it I wrote that the people that Jonathan criticizes in his videos such as extreme atheists like Dawkins are in my no eyes no better than him and other religious folks for they are both trying to turn a particular aspect of reality into "Truth" and that is a wrong way to approach the search of meaning. I myself may be an atheist but at the same time I am not a really a fan of atheists as a referential group for in that regard they are no better than their "enemies" (people of faith). So no, in that regard I am not a deep thinker that through deconstruction gets nothing as a prize. Also if you want to get a better understanding of where my beliefs or ideas are coming from I recommend for you to read "The Hogfather" by Terry Pratchett and "Name of the Rose" by Umberto Eco.

@Tou-Immanuel 9 месяцев назад

@@denniszaychik8625 When you say nothing. Do you mean the absence of everything physical and just a state of quantum potentiality (something that intelligence or consciousness might emerge out of) or do you mean the absence of everything as in just empty space. Cause no serious scientist or even philosopher can make such a claim, nothing can not turn to something. There already needs to be a something and a guiding force that binds them together for a higher purpose. Regarding God, if there is anything that could be considered transcendently eternal or infinite it has to be God.

@Aaron-xb4rq 9 месяцев назад

Problem #1: the incarnation was not necessary for theosis. Problem #2: Theosis and the incarnation result in ontologically different unions with God.

@alexdramos 9 месяцев назад

No explanation of the critique? How do you know the incarnation isn’t necessary for theosis? There is no problem, just a mystery

@Aaron-xb4rq 9 месяцев назад

@@alexdramos Theosis is participation in God’s energies. This is always and necessarily the case for man. Separated from God, man would cease to be. The incarnation is not necessary for man’s energetic participation in God. However, the church teaches that the incarnation was necessary for theosis (“God became man so that man could become god.”), that there was no theosis before the incarnation, and that through the incarnation Christ reunited man’s human nature with God’s divine nature. Therefore, how was man united to God from the Fall until the incarnation if he was both separated essentially and energetically from God? Moreover, how did man even continue to be? Problem #2 remains, as well, since the church teaches that there is a real (essential) distinction between God’s essence and energies. Theosis results in a pseudo union with God via participation in God’s energies, whereas the incarnation results in a real (essential) union with God. These two models of salvation are ontological contradictions. It’s not a mystery. It’s illogical and incoherent theology.

@caslusotas9038 9 месяцев назад

@@Aaron-xb4rqI totally agree with you, and would say that these "attachment" to the theologies of the old fathers of the Church is the main reason that I can't fully convert to orthodoxy. I know people claim Tradition or Church authority to justify these matters, but I just can't help but see that, for the most part, the fathers were, in fact, speculating about metaphysics and theology, and not uttering a necessarily final Truth. Of course, they came up with good and coherent metaphysical ideas on many topics, but on some don't. Nonetheless, they made the best they could based on the current philosophy, theology and knowledge of the Cosmos of their time. The problem is that the Church took the stance of making those theological speculations inquestionable - not assuming that some points are, in fact, speculations that could (and should) be reformulated on basis of good reason -, and now She is way too much compromised with the idea that these millenia-old metaphysics are infallible. Because, otherwise, assuming that they are problematic would mean that the Church has endorsed, as an absolute and unquestionable truth, for centuries and centuries, a theological and metaphysical system that is, fairly speaking, not any more than speculative theology, questionable on some of its points. Ultimately, that would mean that the Church took a wrong stance, and, at this point, I think no one will or want to claim that; pardon my expression, but I think there's too much pride involved - taking this route of reanalyzing certain points is a really tough call for the Church, She is way too much compromised.

@LKRaider 8 месяцев назад

@@Aaron-xb4rq it's not illogical, just a paradox. It solves itself when you see the incarnation reaches back in time to save Adam and Eve.

@Aaron-xb4rq 8 месяцев назад

@@LKRaider Indeed the ultimate reality is beyond space and time. However, the fundamental point is that both theosis and incarnation theology is based on separation between God and man. In reality, no separation ever was, is, or could possibly be. Apart from God, all that is would cease to be.

@Aaron-xb4rq 9 месяцев назад

The sacrificial lamb of Old had nothing to do with forgiveness of sins.

@ZachFish- 9 месяцев назад

@Aaron-xb4rq 9 месяцев назад

@@ZachFish- The Passover lamb (Exodus 2:3-13) had nothing to do with forgiveness of sins. It was not a sin offering. The Egyptians worshipped the lamb as a god. By Egyptian law, harming a lamb was punishable by death. Therefore, God tested the faithfulness of his people by commanding them to kill the paschal lamb and spread the blood on their doorposts for all to see. Interestingly, only John refers to Christ as the Paschal lamb. No such idea is found in Matthew, Mark, or Luke. Because of this, John also moves the date of the crucifixion to the eve of Passover, the 14th day of Nissan, whereas Matthew, Mark, and Luke all place the crucifixion on the first day of Passover, the 15th day of Nissan. As a result, the Passover Seder is also not included in John’s gospel.

@tgrogan6049 Месяц назад

Jews and Muslims reject the incarnation because it is incoherent. The man Jesus is not eternal BTW.

@Cotronixco 8 месяцев назад

Jesus was not the creator. God was the Creator. Jesus is not God. Jesus is God's first and only Son, and the Firstfruits of the saints.

@johnnyd2383 2 месяца назад

That is clean case Arian heresy you are talking about here.

@Cotronixco 2 месяца назад

@@johnnyd2383 Call it what you want, but the unadulterated Bible is very clear. Almighty God is the creator of all things. Christ Jesus is the SON of God.

@johnnyd2383 2 месяца назад

@@Cotronixco Is your son going to be monkey or dog or pigeon.? Shouldn't the Son of God also be God.? Your logic is out of whack... completely.

@Cotronixco 2 месяца назад

@@johnnyd2383 Nope. Trust the Bible, not your twisted illogic. Yahweh, known as almighty God in English, is the Father of Yeshua, known as Christ Jesus in English. Jesus said it several times and we saints trust Him. We don't trust men and their myths and changes. God is also the Father of the saints.

@HeatherLanzaMusicEd Месяц назад

Heresy. Google Arianism. Repent and believe.

@uncreatedlogos 5 месяцев назад

This is utter blasphemy. The Logos was not man before it became Flesh! !!!!!!!!!!!!!! ⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡

@uncreatedlogos 5 месяцев назад

Someone prove me wrong (please)

@drednaught608 4 месяца назад

You're talking about within time? Within the world? The incarnation is eternal so I'm not quite sure I understand the objection. All things were made by him.

@johnnyd2383 2 месяца назад

You are right. Humanity of Lord Jesus Christ has it's beginning in incarnation and He received His humanity from Theotokos Mary, while at the same time His divinity is both uncreated and eternal.

@0live0wire0 9 месяцев назад

Jonathan once again being gnostic. The title is heretical - God the Father, the first hypostasis of the Trinity, created the world.

@alexdramos 9 месяцев назад

He is obviously speaking in terms that get at something and isn’t using exact language as a means of being poetic. The World is Created by the Father through the son and is why saint basil says Christ can be spoken of as the will of the the Father in some sense. Un the same way we can say Christ created the world. And because the incarnation speaks forward and backwards in time what Jonathan is getting at is that the only bridge between the one and the many is man, and the archetypal man is also divine. He condescends (like DP Harry says) to bring everything into himself and hold in being as the Godman

@countdooku75 9 месяцев назад

You just ignoring John 1 or am I missing something?

@0live0wire0 9 месяцев назад

@@countdooku75 Not at all. The Word picks out the Son. God picks out both the Father and the Trinity. Since God has no parts, all persons participated in the creation, yet creation is an attribute of the Father alone just like incarnation and resurrection picks out the Son and divine inspiration and the Church picks out the Holy Spirit.

@0live0wire0 9 месяцев назад

@@alexdramos Yes, I got his point and saying "The World is Created by the Father through the Son" is doctrinally correct. My problem was with the title because if a person's not well versed in Orthodoxy and sees this, it could easily lead them to heretical ideas. Not only it should be emphasized creation picks out the person of the Father and not the Son, but also there's an arian tinge in the statement "The man Jesus Christ created the world". Creation is prior to incarnation so JC hasn't assumed human nature at the event of creation. He was not a man in any sense even though the Word becoming flesh was always God's will.

@aeswhtp 9 месяцев назад

No, the whole Trinity created the world.

@denniszaychik8625 9 месяцев назад

Yeah, the only problem Jonathan is that the true "cosmos" revealed by Christ is not the one that you think. The real truth of Christ's incarnation is revealed in Berserk by Kentaro Miura and let me tell you if there is one word that can describe it's "terrifying." It's certainly beautiful but at the same time there is a much more horrifying side present within it as well, which gives the whole event a much darker undertone that is not usually discussed by believers. ( Not talking about the pain and torture that led up to the crucifixion or the horror of the crucifixion itself)

@enzocompanbadillo5365 9 месяцев назад

Wasnt expecting to see a comment like this here. Are you referring to the Idea of Evil? Would you please elaborate?

@denniszaychik8625 9 месяцев назад

@@enzocompanbadillo5365 The moment of his "physical" incarnation at the Tower of Conviction from the Egg of the Perfect World. Although yes his meeting with the Idea of Evil does indeed have a connection to what I was talking about.

@countdooku75 9 месяцев назад

Jonathan has mentioned this several times, you just haven’t watched long enough.

@denniszaychik8625 9 месяцев назад

@@countdooku75 I have watched him long enough and no he hasn't. What he said had nothing to do with what I was talking about at all.

@countdooku75 9 месяцев назад

@@denniszaychik8625 childish nonsense that you’ve watched plenty of? Lol He has absolutely talked about the horror of the crucifixion, the torture and humiliation leading to it.

@ailius1520 9 месяцев назад

I can offer a very simple counterpoint. The Law of Jesus Christ is "Love Thy Neighbor as Thyself", but the Law of this world is "Survival of the Fittest." This world flat out rewards whoever is the most cruel. Humans don't like the universe we live in, so we create inventions like "love", "justice", "mercy", and "good" but all of those things run *against* the natural order. They don't exist in nature; they are things we fabricate. Jesus is the god *we wish created the universe,* but in the end that is just rebellious cope on our end.

@rasmusmller625 9 месяцев назад

"Creatures are not born with desires unless satisfaction for these desires exists. A baby feels hunger; well, there is such a thing as food. A duckling wants to swim; well, there is such a thing as water. Men feel sexual desire; well, there is such a thing as sex. If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world." - Mere Christianity

@notloki3377 9 месяцев назад

the law of the world is not "survival of the fittest." not in the shallow sense you're describing. humans have many selves, you're describing one that doesn't scale particularly well. by the way, evolution doesn't give "laws." people do.

@michaelkennedy6759 9 месяцев назад

Rebellious against what?

@kostpap3554 9 месяцев назад

You realise of course, that "survival of the fittest" is a tautology. Like "wisdom of the wise" or "love of the lover" or "hunger of the hunrgy". It's not a law or a standard in any way, its just a description. Of course the one best equiped to live has the best chances to live, but that tells us neither what life is or what "best equiped" to live means. All may be set up and you may be reigning on your high horse (like the dinosaurs) and then a random move from the heavens (literally) can turn you into dust. The ones that were able to survive were the smallest and least menacing. And indeed the cultures that thrive are the ones that take care of the other. One of the reasons that western civilisation thrived is because technology enabled people to survive, even though otherwise they would not be able to. Medicine for various deceases, mechanical prosthetics for the disabled, mechanical surgery for the wounded, secure pipelines streaming clear water, even proper education. If we are to say that western civilisation was "rewarded" by the world, it is because it made it less cruel to some extend, and ironically it is no crumbling because it now promotes strife and selfishness. Now naturally, we know that things do not always function the way they were supposed to work. In fact one of the reasons new machinery is always tested multiple times is precisely so that it can be ascertained that the machinery in question functions the way it was designed to work. If anything, the law of Jesus Christ is precisely that. The way reality was designed to work. It is the standard, by which everything is judged and measured. And it is quite surprising that so many cultures, in so many places, at so different times, which cultures cannot agree on even simple stuff like how to sit or how to greet someone without it being offensive to another culture, all of them have a very crystalised idea of what "morality" or "ethos" or "good" means. Even to say that we are trying to cope is a hint towards that it's not just an invention, because how can you know what a crooked line is unless you have an idea, even a very vague one, of what a straight line is? How can we all know what evil is unless we have some idea of what it is good? But in order to know good there must be at least some measure of it. We can't create anything out of thin air, so even if we were to say that our idea of good is "unrealistic", there must be, nonetheless, at least some sparks of goodness for us to base ourselves upon it.

@notloki3377 9 месяцев назад

i'm gonna need you to summarize it into a paragraph champ.@@kostpap3554

@notloki3377 9 месяцев назад

what i don't like is when christians use illogical catch phrases like "christ is lord" or "the man jesus christ created the world." Just drawing from the comment's section here: It captures the delight of knowing the truth of the faith! everytime "Lord" is mentioned in the Old Testament, it's talking about the Logos (Christ). to me, these sound just like "love is love" or "science is real" from the liberals. circular platitudes meant to show adherence to an irrational movement. jung knew the gods were outside as well as inside. i can easily believe in transpersonal psychic agency without believing that a dead jew on a stick 2000 years ago was the sole creator of the universe. there are clearly more gods than jesus if we go into our own experiences. monotheism is an insufficient philosophy that i've seen people break their minds in half trying to cram into this naturally dialectical world.