The Martin Baker MB.5; Best British Fighter to Never Serve? 

While we are musing the what-ifs of both Martin -Baker aircraft, I think that the important thing to remember is that thanks to the decision to concentrate on making ejection seats for military aircraft, the company Martin-Baker is still around today when nearly all of the aircraft manufacturers of that time period have become Fallen Flags.

Now we know what happens when you leave a Mk XIV Spitfire and a P-51D Mustang alone in a hangar without a chaperone!

Crikey Ed. You've got a lot of response on this one . Just in case you didn't know .Yesterday (Thursday 25th March ) a Hawk fighter came down in Cornwall due to engine failure . Both pilots ejected and are recovering in hospital with none life threatening injuries. They are the first Royal Navy pilots to eject in 18 years. So they now become the latest to use the Martin Baker seats . So well done to both pilots and of course Martin Baker.

You deserve more views and subscribers, your short and concise style is well worth a watch. Unfortunately we live in a world where some joker can "react" to a rock group (whilst adding zero insight) and get half a million views. Baffling.

Looks like a great plane and as they say "if it looks right, it probably is" Amazing range for a piston engine fighter, great series of vids on this plane, which I never knew existed before these vids

You did it again - another aircraft I had never heard of before your last video. Thank you. Peace.

Great coverage Ed. It does seem that Mr. Baker lost his way without Mr. Martin's input . Perhaps progress would have been more productive as a pair and the MB5 could have seen combat. And if Eric "winkle " Brown was impressed that is it's finest accolade . Thanks Ed.

A bigger "what-if" would have been if the duffers in the Air Ministry had listened to (Sir) Frank Whittle in the 30's!! The MB5 is still a beautiful aircraft though.

Thanks again! Your content is amazing, I just can't get enough of it. And no, I'm not usually such a fan of everything but I really like that you've also gone through the trouble of keeping us informed on a variety of subjects, such as some current developments in Burma etc. I'm glad that I've been able to share the knowledge of your channel to some of my friends too. Wish you all the best, A fan from Finland

Hard to justify MB.5 production when Meteor and Vampire were flying.

Beautiful aircraft really enjoy your channel thumbs up stay awesome.

Used as a ground target then burnt! What a disgraceful thing to do to a one of a kind airplane! It should had been sent to a museum or sold to a collector that could had taken care of it for future enthusiasts!

Thank You; I was unaware of this airplane or the company that built it. So nice to hear that the tragedy of the pilot's death inspired such a life-saving invention though. A fitting legacy.

The more I study WWII, the more I appreciate British design capabilities of the era.

Having spent many of my earlier years in sales I found out very quickly that a potential customer needs a compelling reason to change and sadly for Martin Baker my view is that he hadn't got one as it was a case of too little, too late and at what would most likely have been a much higher cost for a piston engined aircraft when jet engines were already becoming established and much faster.

What a shame that aircraft wasn't preserved.

My first thought was, this looks like a british Pony. There are some interesting planes, which havent made it into series production. Like FW 187, XP-72 and this one. I did not know about the MB5. So thank you for this content.

Just goes to show, Britain had strength in depth when it came to aircraft design. 6:38 Lovely looking plane. Interesting vid as always.

Thank you. That's the first photo I've seen of the MB.5 with its original tail.

I read about this aircraft 50 years ago as a boy, in a magazine (long gone) called American Aircraft Modeller. At the end of the article it addressed the question of what happened to the sole prototype. Apparently someone had inquired about it previously, and they said to their knowledge the plane had been sold to someone in Texas, and perhaps was still flying...this would have been around 1970- 1971, if memory serves. Perhaps someone has a collection of these magazines and can look this up, my collection was destroyed in a warehouse fire.

Superbly interesting RU-vid about a really unknown aircraft type. As you note, in Eric 'Winkle' Brown's autobiography "Wings On My Sleeve" (p228) he lists the MB5 amongst the 'greats' he flew, and states that it was "a real beauty that arrived too late for World War II". Very high praise indeed! Many thanks for creating and posting this RU-vid.

So Martin's obsession with perfection seems to have been fortuitous if not wholly ordained. An important life lesson. Not everyone is destined to follow the well-worn path. Some of us are made to make a way that others will follow. A great what-if story! IIRC, Martin-Baker is based at our original airfield in Oxfordshire Chalgrove (Station 465) beginning in the Spring of 1944. First ETO home of the 34th Photographic Reconnaissance Squadron along with the 30th PRS, 31st PRS and 33rd PRS.

I was looking forward to this episode from the previous one. As always, high quality content. I really enjoy your video's!

When the Spitfire and Mustang make a Child

Well done! As a student of history and a pilot for over 40 years this was news to me. Keep up the great work.

If Eric "winkle" brown praised it its ok for service 👍

By the time this was ready for production, piston fighters in general were obsolete. Britain already had its Gloucester Meteor in production, and Germany had the ME 262. Too bad it wasn't ready a few years earlier.

Great video. Such a shame that there is no surviving film footage of this outstanding aircraft.

I like when a story about an aircraft leaves me feeling sad for the aircraft.

As a Yank I just love this stuff ! Jets came out too early

Good one Ed. Well balanced view.

Some years ago, there was an MB-5 either being restored or replicated at Chino Airport, Chino, CA. They were waiting for a Griffon engine. I never learned what became of it.

Looks like the lovechild of a P-51 and a Do 335, utterly gorgeous.

The Martin Baker MB-7 ejection seat saved one of our officers lives following a Ramp Strike onboard a carrier … sadly our pilot was never found … the plane had rolled due to the landing gear being torn off … no fault of the seat .. but it was one of those rare cases when even a zero/zero seat was unable to prevail …

Another excellent vid not to mention more inspiration for a Crimson Skies style airplane

This video is long overdue and extremely well made. I'm sure that the MB 5 would have done well in Korea.

Contra-rotating propellers to deal with the available horsepower. Removes the torque issue with propeller aircraft.

This is interesting. Thanks. It strikes me as sort of a British example of the "what ifs" with various German designs--what if the Luftwaffe had had a whole lot of these a whole lot earlier? What if they had used them as bombers rather than fighters?--and I feel as though that is, in a sense, more of a war-gamer's problem than an actual historian's problem, because, as you rightly point out, other aircraft manufacturers were already churning out good, robust designs, maybe not quite as high in performance, but able to do the job sufficiently well--and the Second World War was, in the end, in all sorts of ways, a numbers game (i.e., more about who could produce adequate types and equipment in sufficient numbers, rather than who could produce the very best type in wholly inadequate numbers, and also without enough pilots, training, aviation fuel, etc., etc.?). That is, in the end, the war was more about persistence and production than about technical perfection (that classic German engineering obsession ...). And, thankfully for the Allies, both the Germans and the Japanese were geared toward lightning-quick and overwhelming early victories, because that's about all their respective resource bases could handle. Once their adversaries figured out ways to challenge them and successfully draw blood, and force them into a more prolonged engagement (as in, basically, the year 1942 into early 1943), the game was already sort of up for the Axis and their reliance upon quick and complete victories (though that wasn't entirely evident until later, with hindsight!). From that point onward, the war was about sustained effort, large-scale economic flows and mass production--and the Soviets and particularly the Americans (and the British, with the help of the Atlantic lifeline of supplies and materials from North America) showed the Axis how you fight a total war in the longer term. [I should note for the record: the Russians mostly showed the world how to fight over the long term; the Americans were unsurpassed in showing the world how to produce over the long term (with the advantage of having all of their factories and resources conveniently far from most enemy attack, unlike other combatant nations--something my fellow Americans sometimes forget when they give themselves too much credit for winning the whole Second World War). ;-) ]

Much overdue and truly excellent! PS Janusz Zurakowski is pronounced "Yanoosh Zhoorakovski". Just saying :-)

The CA-15 developed in Australia had a similar fate.

Great video Looks like a cooler cousin of the P-51 Mustang. Love the double propeller.

Many thanks for this Mr Nash - in-depth exploration, and concise with it!

Excellent, informative narration!

Honestly, it’s great that it handled well and was fast. But probably the single biggest feature it had going for it, and why I think it was so adored. Is Because of its counterrotating props, canceling out the constant yaw and roll from the prop on a normal fighter. While I’m sure it’s like riding a bike for a pilot after training, it’s still better to both have to fight the engine in the first place.

i hope someone recreates one of these one day. it was designed to be low hours to build so that should help plenty.

One other comment- I read the book "The Man in the Hot Seat" as a book club selection in 1968 or so, by Doddy Hayes, about the development of the ejection seat (Hayes was the test pilot). Lots of stuff about Martin-Baker in it. This is all from memories over 50 years old, so forgive me if I'm off on anything. Well worth reading for aviation history buffs.

It's a kick ass design, shame it came along too late I'm sure it'd caused the Luftwaffe all kinds of headaches. But Martin-Baker did go on to show the world how to make the best ejection seat there was.

I seem to remember that, in its final form, pilots who flew the MB 5 who had flown the other top fighters of the day said that the MB 5 was better than any other piston engine fighter of the day.

The P-51H was a contemporary design. It was 30mph faster and had a large production run. It was the best piston engined fighter to become operational. The TA-152 and Do 335 never made it beyond the test and evaluation phase.

Can you cover the Westland Wyvern as there aren’t many videos about this aircraft. Great video

Great video. This channel has become a favourite one.

It's not just existing UK aircraft (for example the Tempest, later Spitfires such as the XIX or Spiteful) it was competing against, but also the P-51H which was a bit slower, but delivered in quantity during WW2, even if too late to see service. First flight to service was typically one to two years, so it was going to miss WW2.

See also the Boulton-Paul P94 (basically, a Defiant with the turret taken out and replaced by 12 .303s) and Miles M.20.

Hi Ed, I Love your videos because the topics you cover are often new and unheard of to people who have an interest in military history. Keep up the good work. Would you be able to make a video on the Ark Royal (ww2 era)

Great vid. Thank you, Ed.

Really good post this well done. I knew nothing of this fighter - & if Winkle Brown rated it so highly then it must have been great. Looking forward to see what you do next.

I agree partially with the poster that the MB5 lost out because of the advent of the jet engine designs, but I think there was another element added to this. We have seen enough of Boris Johnson to know that he is not a "details" man. He doesn't read and absorb reports if he can get away with it. There are numerous accounts from people working for him who testify to this. So I can imagine that there were people at the top in WWII who were of a similar disposition and just didn't spend the time to absorb and understand the abilities of the MB5.

Sea Fury? Developed after MB5, adopted, in service in Korea. Faster, more manoeuvrable and shot down Mig 15s! Maybe that was the Apogee and swan song of piston engined fighters?

There are so many of these types of planes that were just not needed towards the end of the war. The jet age was coming, so pushing for another 5 miles an hour at sea level wasn’t really worthwhile.

Burnt in '63. To conceal all our secret advances no doubt, as with the Avro 707 at Colerne circa '67 !

There were *so many* awesome late war prop fighters

I've been into WWII planes since I was 8, in my day it was library's not internet, but still, I've never heard of anything M-B other than ejector seats until today. Those planes look like they'd have made the spitfire look like Cessna if a few years earlier.

It really does look like a cross between a Yak and a Mustang. It is a little sad to see how many piston aircraft never got a chance, at least in part, because of the advent of jet engines. It is understandable, jets were already leaps and bounds ahead of their piston counterparts, but still a little sad. I kind of wonder if seeing the same thing in cars now with the push to electrify, with developments like dieseling gasoline engines, freevalve technology, and pre-ignition. Will any of these get a chance to hit the mainstream, or will EVs eclipse them completely?

An amazing plane that if needed would have been produced I reckon

Janusz Zurakowski is well known here in Canada as the test pilot for the Avro CF-105 Arrow. There is a park in Barry's Bay, Ontario, dedicated to his memory.

Much like the de Haviland Hornet it was just too late as the future was jets. MB of course will always be remembered for the ejector seat.

I have often wondered why there were not more contra-rotating propeller aircraft in the war. The Italians developed a contra-rotating seaplane for the Schneider Trophy in the 30s. Aircraft like the Fairey Fulmar could have done with one if you ask me.

Theres a replica MB.5 flying at Reno/Stead airport

Nice videos, thanks for uploading.

It could have been an interesting export model, I'm sure several banana republics in South America would have bought it instead of clapped out P-51's and Corsairs.

Interesting aircraft, interesting insight into the development of ejection seats.

This reminded me wondering about the backward position of the air inlet on P-51, and perhaps others. Searching I finally found an explanation: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meredith_effect I guess that applies to the MB-5 too. Beautiful plane.

A lot is made in the comments, that the profile of the MB5 looks like a Mustang, especially with both having low slung air scoops, but at 3.46, it definitely looks as though its borrowed the tail from the Boulton and Paul Defiant. What a great irony that would have been, if the Defiant, of all creatures, was to have inspired in part at least, the best allied piston fighter of the war..........

Eric Brown described it as like a cross between a Mustang and a V2 rocket!

Oh god... Jan Zurakowski (Yan Zurakovski) Jan = John. Absolute legend!

The MB5 looks remarkably similar to the P51D and beyond. It would have made aircraft recognition very interesting to say the least.

Spitfire 24s were still being built up to 1948. Lincolns were held back because so much tooling and production were devoted to Lancasters. With the War's end and the promise of jets, the Air Ministry or the Min. of Aircraft Production had no reason to set up new tooling and an assembly line. A great shame that at that time nobody cared to preserve the 'plane or tuck it away in an obscure hanger for the future.

Martin-Baker became famous for its flying ejector seats more than its actual aircraft.

Cheers for the upload. Subbed

It may seem odd to not put this into production but on second glance at the war situation it makes perfect sense. Why put money and resources into another, albeit very good piston engined fighter when you have late Spitfires, Tempests already and the Meteor and Vampire on the way? Truth is although this was a superlative aircraft it just wasn't needed at the time. Surely proof though that Martin was a top class designer.

I think you would really like the CAC CA-15 'Kangaroo', an indigenous Australian development that suffered from similar slowdowns, protracted development and (in the case of CAC) the change of available engines from the radial R-2800 to a Rolls Royce Griffon (which resulted in it looking very Mustang-ish, although that was most certainly not the original design). Even so, I would happily pit the thing against the MB.5 as both were the absolute pinnacle of piston engined fighter aircraft, and both remain a tremendous "what if?"

Jan Żurakowski involved in MB.5 and Avro Arrow - two great what if planes, but the second is most iconinc.

Ed, going to look at M-B and the bang seats?

Superb overview. Well done. Thank you.

Good analysis. Thank you.

Martin Baker were requested by Churchill, to develop a fighter to break the sound barrier in level flight. The Americans with the permission of Churchill took the drawings, and never returned them. And the Bell X1 was developed using these drawings

Like a Spitfire and a Mustang had a baby! Lovely!

One can only wonder what if it came out in '43 or '44. What kind of record would it have?!! I don't think it was a long ranger, was it? Beautiful aircraft, maybe the most beautiful never to serve?!!!!

Eric Brown is the gospel of flying

The MB5 canopy looks remarkably like the ones used on Hawker Typhoon/Tempests. I wonder if they just grabbed it from Hawkers and maybe the windscreen too.

Great video-- Best I've seen in a while 🙂.

What a shame there is no video footage of this wonderful aircraft. Just the same old stills.

The plane looks like somebody said I have a idea and scabbed together out of a bunch of spare parts.

I think the swansong of props is the Australian CAC Kangaroo, but both are pretty awesome superprops.

This seems like the logical evolution of the mustang (although not directly related) as the DH Hornet was the evolution of the Mosquito.

A superb aircraft that appeared just too late, the future was jets. How about a video on the Miles M20...

Do the contra rotating props eliminate p factor and slipstream effect? I wonder what Douglas Bader would have thought of that...

Remarkably many WWII prototypes had directional stability problems and needed larger rudders/fins.

It's bloody brill' . And top looking piece of British Engineering . " Sorry luv " ?

4 x 20mm cannons ? That would have been in a different class of firepower compared to the spitfire !