I try to get around this by asking if they want a full presentation or a quick summary with pertinent positives at the beginning but just asking that you sometimes get berated for not magically knowing which one beforehand.
4th year med student here; just got marked down on my last eval by my preceptor on my ENT rotation for not being sufficiently thorough on my presentations exactly 2 weeks after being marked down on my previous eval by my FM preceptor for being too slow and overly detailed on my presentations, so this may just be the most relatable youtube video I've ever seen.
Effortless comment made by verified person getting top comment. Classic Also, you dont know if it's "the most accurate thing". In fact, you dont even half understand the video.
@@nickxenix yup, what they meant was “I don’t actually know what I’m talking about, nor am I a med student but let me post this random comment that doesn’t add anything relevant to the video so I can farm likes”
This actually frustrated me a lot. Students are expected to morph into every attending's preference. One tells you you're a student you have to present the full picture so that we know you can do it while another says they only want to know what's important to save time and so they know you know how to hone in on important changes/events.
In my view, the ideal situation is to have a preceptor or superior with whom you initially build that trust with fully detailed presentations..then later they tell you to speed along because they’re confident in your work-up.
Yeah because in a clinical setting you're always going to know exactly what the right answer is and you're never going to have to tailor your approach, presentation or demeanor to a particular patient, family or stakeholder. Your teachers are there to make it easier for you, not challenge you to think quickly and react professionally.
@Tell me your worries. Caz am listening. A "Scribe" is someone who types up the patient & provider interaction to create an account or "note" for the patient's medical record for each visit. Ex., What the problem is, exam findings, diagnose(s), and plan ... etc. These "notes" can be several typed pages in length and if I'm being real honest most providers are NOT so fortunate as to have the luxury of a "scribe." 😭
I remember consulting with my doctor and watching the scribe write. I must’ve said something significant because after giving a one word answer, the scribe’s fingers went into overdrive.
Don't worry sir. I played league of legends for years. I've already accepted and embraced what a stupid useless fool I am. Mold me, I am hollow and empty, clay waiting to be shaped into something of value
My personal motto is "Never again in your life will so many people be so adamant that all your best efforts amount to the lowest of the low, and that in the deepest recesses of your mind shall you know that they are right."
Except they don't mold you. You're an adult learner...mold yourself. Meanwhile, I the attending am going to leave at 3:30 in the afternoon while you beg for some mentoring from an overtired senior resident.
I feel so sorry for you guys, our teaching is nothing like that, we are generally encouraged and gently corrected and if the occasional consultant is particularly tough on us there's generally a junior doc with a friendly hand on your shoulder and a bit of helpful advice afterwards. Most of the time the senior staff treats us like overexcited puppies. They let us play under supervision, laugh when we fall on our faces and occasionally give us a smile when we actually manage to do the trick and not hilariously fail for a change. It's stressful enough as it is, I can't imagine trying to also cope with everyone being a dick for the sake of being a dick as well. They do put on more pressure the later in your training you are but unless you end up in a horrible department it's generally always positive, encouraging, "We know this is tough as hell so we'll support you, even when we have to push you" kind of pressure.
My electronics teachers always fucked with you. You answer a question right and if you didn't sound 100% sure they started to make you feel like you just talked a bunch of bullshit and try to fuck with you. That's how I learned how much bullshit you can get away with if you're confident. The worst thing is they wouldn't stop. One time the guy fucked with me for over 2 hours in front of blackboard then we had a break and when he came back he forgot what he asked me and asked something new and continued to fuck with me for another hour. Good times
@@Sophie-wf9zk hah! In school there are so many toxic teachers. In middle school we had a teacher kind of like him and she thought she knew better and was better and sometimes would pick on us, she literally made a classmate cry. It's a story of what she did to me ( if you want to know, if you don't want to hear it you don't need to read it): she put me read in french ( she's a french teacher) and my pronunciation wasn't so good but she wasn't correcting me and I didn't think it was that bad. She said that was all bad ( in a meaner way) and I thought she just let me embarass myself like that and made a fool of me like not correct me to tell me how bad I am and insult me afterwards so I started shaking a little bit ( probably because of anxiety, she literally made me feel so bad and anxious) and she noticed and she was like it was not my fault ( she didn't say this, what she said was just like not taking accountability of her actions and blaming me, I don't remember what she said tho). In my mind I was like you're the teacher, it's your job to correct me, why'd you just listen and say nothing just to make fun of me!?! In highschool now we have another toxic teacher but like not in this way. And a lot of ignorant ones.
Most of my family are doctors or lawyers, and the bulk of them have God complexes. Society expects more than they can give, and I think that's a common coping mechanism. I don't know; I'm only a teacher.
The profession attracts narcissistic psychopaths that like the power trip so I'm not really surprised. Doctors deserve nothing but contempt and ridicule
This is so damn relatable. When we started learning history taking, every doctor told us about their way of history taking, they were like: you should tell this first, then this and then that. So we’d change our history according to those instructions. Then the next doctor would come and tell us our presentation was wrong and we should do it all over again according to their instructions. And this happened over and over again.
This happened to me just last week. As a sixth year medical student, the resident managed to make me feel like that day was my first clinical rotation. Just because I decided to present the history and examination exactly how the consultant in that unit said he wanted it some weeks before. The resident flipped and said I cannot possibly be a sixth year presenting a history so disorganized, when I told her that the consultant had demanded that we do it that way, she said "That's a lie, he couldn't have possibly said that", because apparently she knows (more than himself) how he likes to take his history.
yes! I'm in year two of preclinical, and half the teachers want lengthy, in-depth case presentations with all the antécédents, positives and negatives and family status, and others pretty much just want us to say the ID, age, and diagnosis. They all say that their way is the correct way to present a case.
think smetimes you can kind of see which subspecialties want what. like surgeons & o&g doctors mostly want shorter summarised presentations whereas internal medicine, infectious disease those guys probably want something more lengthy. but i get it haha been through those years of medical school and the profs are never satisfied
I get the time crunch issue. And it really depends on the call. Sometimes a call is so routine, that it's kind of a chore to listen to the whole thing when you're busy and just trying to filter for things that are important. So, that's what I try to do. I try to quickly say what I think is going on with the patient and what findings have led me to have those concerns. Then, I quickly say every treatment I've given and anything else that's unique and important about the patient.
Oh my Mr. Jones has so much wrong with him. It is a miracle he is still alive. Really so amusing. Oh my he must be receiving so much attention from fourth year student. Doc needs to encourage and guide students to ensure they learn without being scolded. Aggressive and lack of patience is what makes some professionals arrogant and power struck. Encouraging and inspiring is the way to go. A good teacher is one with ability to get results. Thank you so very much. Kindest regards
OMG this is SO ACCURATE!! Every professor has different standards and it's literally so hard keeping up with them, whenever they tell me "the history is very detailed OR the history should be more detailed" in my head I'm like "make up your mind people, can't anyone set some standards for it, I have a ton of other work to do as well🤦♀️🤦♀️"
The last "OF COURSE" had me in the feels. It's like, you know it's not your fault but you still cannot explain or defend yourself. You just feel like imploding 😩
Even working as a substitute preschool teacher's assistant feels like this sometimes. Hard to keep track of preferences, even in the day to day lives of toddlers. I can't imagine how much more stressful this is in the medical field. Life and death.
How true how true! My husband went through all of that so many years ago! He would come home from work and tell me about it. So deflating but then again he did learn. He had great patience with up-and-coming young people, and they loved him as a professor!
If you'll tell us his specialty and the area of the country he lives in I'll be sure and look him up if I need that sort of care. Because someone like that is a wonderful doctor to have. I'll bet he has enough humility still to want to keep learning his whole life, to consult others when he needs to, and even (gasp!) listens to the patient! And although all professionals sometimes let journals stack up unread because of how little free time they have, he probably cracks one open now and then.
It is so though. Really demeaning atimes. Over here, they usually tell us that in the operating room, the order oh hierarchy is this... The Consultants/Attending The Residents The Medical Officers The House Officers The Cleaners/Janitors The trash basket Then the medical students. This is literally what you hear upon entering the theater the first couple of times.
Very true and frustrating for the student. It does help a student compare/contrast different lines of thought in practicing medicine and know what's not necessarily needed but helpful info and essential info. It'll help them grow to figure how they would think about practicing medicine. But like most things present need to know to prove your diagnosis concisely and have ready other info just in case its needed.
I can’t believe this is happening around the world. Just sad. How come almost every attending dr. are just like this. We have to dance around their own preferences.
TBH knowing what to skip and what to give a little more information about is a skill and really shows that you know which issues are more and less relevant. Of course as an attending I try to acknowledge this and guide the student as to what is relevant or not. The student can’t read your mind.
Ugh preceptors in NP school were the same way. Quite frustrating lol I was stressing more about what they wanted to listen to and less about my assessment and plan 🤦🏾♀️
Not a doctor but I have to do clinical presentations for my clients all the time (crisis emergency work) to a psychiatrist about my clients. Some are really easy - they just want straight to safety facts and dispo, and others want long winded information and sometimes I can mix the two preferences with the other doctors and then get slightly berated for not giving them the info they want, lol!
Brings me back to The good old times when a surgeon told me I should always use the patient's own words when talking about the chief complaint. Came back to him with liver pain as the patient said. Got humiliated for it the whole day. 😂
I love how westerners are pretty confident and present like this to their seniors.. us Asians are super scared and almost pee our selves when we have to present because most our consultants are super intimidating.. 😆
@@m136dalie our consultants are more like "dont you dare stay silent like a dumb idiot staring at me..you should speak..but whatever you say, I'm going to crush your soul and break you emotionally in to million pieces!"
Hahaha... This is so true for Nigeria too. If you start to think about it, you'd think that during residency, they attend a summer camp on how to absolutely demoralize everyone beneath them. At this point I've decided to take all the insults and mockery, as long as I still graduate next year.
Our medical elders need to do better. There are better ways to teach medical students aside using humiliation or mockery. They need to know this, or should I say we the future Doctors need to actively/consciously unlearn this habit before we become attending/resident
This is so god damn relatable Im rotating in ob right now and every time the doc corrects the way i write birth notes, i apply the correction next time and the doc im with that day likes it a completely different way 😂
I was adopted by a Catholic mother. Met my adoptive mom only to find out I’m Jewish. Not only am I always wrong but everything I’ve ever done is wrong and everything I do in the future will always be wrong and I am bad for it. It’s just peachy
Exactly 😂😂 Happened with me all the time.. But by the time I was in 4th year i had known which professors want to listen the history from the start or which ones only want to hear the positive findings.. But still the history will never be perfect 😂
Its hard but when a single patient says thanks may God bless you. That just makes it all seem worth it. So everyone out therr remember to say thanks and praise all health care workers. It makes us happy
Literally no matter how you present during Rounds it will also be up to the attendings style and personality. I had preceptors and staff that wanted all the info and to take 3 hours doing Peds Rounds and some that wanted the bare minimum and to be done rounding in 15 minutes. Gotta learn everyone's preference and adapt!
I usually get the snarky "You're really detailed with your notes when giving information" or the "We need more information" when I give the condensed summaries they only ask for, when I gave more detailed notes previously.
I am the kind of guy who replies to these with something like "I'm really working on my psycic skills but until I reached Zen 3 I'd apprechiate you telling me what you want beforehand rather than screwing me up afterwards". Worked most of the time. I even once told a guy that he should get a dog if he wants to feel dominant rather than intoxicating the working climate.
Wow, Doctors are a special breed. Also everytime I see You I'm reminded I need to go for that follow up colonoscopy! Duodenal ulcer blow out, patch job. Then My aorta blew out so I never got the colonoscopy, but really gotta!
I do rounds with residents, students and docs before. Usually if its a pt that we have been following for a while, we just skip right to the important updates. If it is a new pt then there is a bit more of the back story to it. Then each round with different doc is different. At this level there is no set of standard anymore. Its all fair game to who you have. Key advice is adaptability and flexibility
That does sound like the smartest strategy. Be instantly ready with all of the information that the superior might grill you on just to make sure you know it...but don't throw it all out there at the beginning because they will be irritated. Plus, how can they put you in your place and make you feel challenged if they can't think of one question you haven't already answered? Likewise, of course they will want you to prioritize, so have everything in order of importance in your mind so, if for example they ask you for differential diagnosis, you start with the ones that are most realistic and relevant. And with clinical details like lab results and vital signs, you present the abnormals in detail and basically just State the others are normal (but also have the details ready in case they test You by asking about those too). Eventually you may be able to tell just by reading body language, attire and speaking Style which type of resident or attending you're dealing with even if you haven't been able to learn that in advance. It is actually possible most of the time. I wish I'd known all of that way back when.
This is very relatable even as a medical diagnostics student. I get negative comments daily for doing things one way when I'm only doing things that way because someone else gave me negative comments about the previous way I was doing something. Thank God our practical is only one year. I had to return to complete, and it's been the worst two years for my self esteem of my entire life.
Just know your audience! If I know your background is GI, I would give you a more general presentation of one of my patients. But, if I know you're the pediatric oncology attending, I'll be a bit more thorough and detailed on my pertinent details. We do it in every day life, too. At least, we should be. Communication is key, but the right kind of communication is the master key.
I remember this being mentioned on old doctor shows ER an Scrubs an stuff lol y'all have to learn each doctor and how they want stuff presented and do it their way for them. More power to y'all managing all that and remembering but I guess it gets you ready to be good doctors hopefully.
This is the most accurate I've ever seen ☠️ different doctors want to listen different things, have different style. It's the thing i hate the most being a medical student 😭☠️