A common occurence with prophecies in various mythologies that I have noticed is that they often become self-fulfilling. That is, the ones who become aware of the prophecy and/or wish to change its outcome end up taking the exact actions that lead to the fulfillment of the prophecy. Could be a good idea for a video.
I’ve wondered if that’s not the point. If the Aesir don’t betray Fenrir but rather raise him to be loyal to them, does he cause pain and heartbreak at Ragnarok by dying while killing Jormungandr - the pain & heartbreak being that of losing a friend?
For everyone saying that the Aesir got what was coming to them for being jerks to Fenrir, let me share something that a Norse-Pagan friend of mine shared with me. Ragnarok was ultimately unavoidable. The gods knew it, and the beings that Jon has previously mentioned from Norse lore who basically spun the complete history of the cosmos in its entirety, also knew it. Fenrir and everyone else involved was going to play a specific role no matter what happened. The gods could only stall it, not stop it. Furthermore, at least according to Norse-Pagans (and just about everyone else), the end of the world hasn't come yet. Ragnarok hasn't happened yet. So the Aesir haven't got "what's coming to them" yet because Baldur ain't dead yet, Fenrir ain't free yet, and anything else preceding Ragnarok hasn't happened...YET! Dun-dun-DUUUUUUUN!!!
So Fenrir is actually the victim who was demonized and punished for something he didn't do until he was put into a situation where he was forced to be violent?
All of Loki's children were, and when you check much of the mythology of the Aesir they are kind've assholes that swindle, cheat, and murder for close to no reason. They see themselves as better than any and everything in all the 9 realms and technically they even kill Ymir for no good reason.
I’ve heard an interpretation that says that Tyr befriended Fenrir while feeding him. And that Tyr’s willingness to put his hand in Fenrir’s mouth was the reason he agreed to be tied up. That also explained the reason Tyr kept a straight face while the other gods laughed, as he was sad that he betrayed his friend not because he lost his hand. As always another great video. Love these
@@antilikka what do you think about The Messed Up Origins of Puppy In My Pocket Adventures In Pocketville, Monster In My Pocket or My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic
If you think about it, that makes it more messed up, putting him in a situation where he has to bite off his only friends hand. I like to think Tyr was the one who freed him when ragnorok starts lol
For everyone saying that the Aesir got what was coming to them for being jerks to Fenrir, let me share something that a Norse-Pagan friend of mine shared with me. Ragnarok was ultimately unavoidable. The gods knew it, and the beings that Jon has previously mentioned from Norse lore who basically spun the complete history of the cosmos in its entirety, also knew it. Fenrir and everyone else involved was going to play a specific role no matter what happened. The gods could only stall it, not stop it. Furthermore, at least according to Norse-Pagans (and just about everyone else), the end of the world hasn't come yet. Ragnarok hasn't happened yet. So the Aesir haven't got "what's coming to them" yet because Baldur ain't dead yet, Fenrir ain't free yet, and anything else preceding Ragnarok hasn't happened...YET! Dun-dun-DUUUUUUUN!!!
When I was reading and lerning about norse mythology and Icelandic saga in school I found that most if not all of the gods fsted were because the heard a prophecy or saw a vision and tried to prevent their own fates and thus doomed themselves
Playing the what if game; maybe you are going to be trapped in your house while its burning/flooding/crumbling around you,, and he destroys your house to, free you, and pull you, (or yours) to safety! Or to stop an enemy inside, who's out to kill you! Or it might not even be 'your' house in the future. Prophecies are funny things. And _always_ missing the most pertinent details. Like "this person will someday burn you," omitting "...to carterize a wound, and save your life."
Well, they did show Sleipnir, Fenrir and Hela... But unfortunatley they just weren't his children. And they left out Jörmungandr. (Wich is a shame, because he would have looked awesome!) Seriously, I would have loved to see MCU-Loki interact with his children! ):
@@sigynfoxy69 what do you think about The Messed Up Origins of these for Anime Explained series Code Geass Soul Eater Bleach Inuyasha My Bride Is A Mermaid Yu Yu Hakusho Ranma ½ Dragon Ball Naruto Shippuden My Hero Academia Attack On Titan Overlord Sword Art Online Tokyo Ghoul Shaman King Demon Slayer Kimetsu No Yaiba To Your Eternity Records Of Ragnarok Sarazanmai Roses Of Versaille Sailor Moon Puella Magi Magica Madoka Yuki Yuna Is The Hero Pichi Pichi Mermaid Melody Jo Jo's Bizzare Adventures Rosario + Vampire Kanokon Highschool D x D Senran Kagura Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid Nadia The Secrets Of Blue Water Death Note Samurai Champloo Future Diary Higurashi When They Cry Umineko When They Cry Hunter x Hunter Neon Genesis Evangelion Excel Saga Your Name Pom Poko Spirited Away Princess Mononoke My Neighbour Totoro Spider Riders So I Am A Spider, So What? Heaven's Design Team Petshop Of Horrors Beyblade Bakugan Yu Gi Oh Yo Kai Watch Digimon Pokemon Nexomon Temtem Kingdom Hearts
@@tijanamilenkovic3425 i- I know only a few there and most is from Japanese culture, not sure if half of them has a messed up backstory unless its a myth of some sorts that was made into an anime.
Technically, Angrboda wasn't a giantess, as she was a human-sized Jotunn. Also, Garm is a seperate entity to Fenris, who's the Norse version of Cerberus, as he's a dog that guards the entrance to Helheim, the realm of the dead.
I like to think Garmr and Fenrir are like twins in a way... like those people who look a lot like each other but aren't blood related... hel I made my version of Fenrir and Garmr identical twins with opposing genders and personalities... as for Skoll and Hati, they look similar enough to their father for people to confuse them is what my head cannon is
Jotun are giants by race. A human sized jotun is still a jotun or giant. Just as a short human is still a human by race and not a dwarf which according to myths and fantasy is a completely different race from human.
@@terrancetegeler2372 Jotnar are neither a race, nor giants. They are a family of gods, like the Aesir and Vanir, only they were gods of chaos. They do come in many shapes and sizes, from animal-shaped, to troll-like and yes, giant even in size. But they are not a race of giants, just because a select few are larger then average. So they are not "Giants by Race". Angrboda was human-sized, so she was not a giant.
Two points. One: I love wolves. They are my favorite animal so Fenrir is one of my favorite myths. Two: Preventing a prophecy, often leads to it coming true
They shouldn’t have done that to any of Loki’s children. But because they did all that they got stronger and were able to get revenge and rescue their father.
I only think of the broody and angsty Tevinter-elf when hearing the name Fenris 😍😍😍 and as a Swede, I am filled with an odd feeling of pride whenever our mythology is mentioned ^_^
Gotta love self fulfilling prophecies! Easy to forget that this wasn't always a common trope. The idea that a person's reaction to fear can be what brings the very thing they fear is an important lesson.
"He promises he won't eat the sun or the king of the gods because he's a very good boy" What a coincidence, Fenrir said the exact same thing. I mean... what are the odds of that?
According to AC:Valhalla, Odin made an oath to his adopted brother "loki" that he will never spill his blood. And so loki called on this oath when odin was going to slay fenrir when was a pup. And thus odin agreed to spare him under the condition that fenrir stays in lyngvi.
As you were listing the items used to make the final rope that binds Fenrir, I had the sudden thought that I'd heard it before. A quick check confirmed that it was referenced in Peter S. Beagle's novel "The Last Unicorn", by the witch Mommy Fortuna, who says the only rope that can bind a unicorn would be the rope the old gods used to bind the Fenris-Wolf, and she lists the ingredients. Although she said the "meowing of a cat" rather than a cat's footsteps. She then says that since they have none of the items nor dwarfs to weave them, they'll have to make do with cold iron. So how about that, I'd heard a little bit about this a long time ago and didn't realize it!
@@the_raven667 he had Sleipnir with Svadilfari, fenrir, jormungandr and hel with his first wife angerboda and narfi and vali with his second wife sigyn. I agree he sure loved his partners.
@Jon Solo. Please when you are done with Norse mythos, and the story of the next Zodiac Constellations, please do the story of Helen of Troy. We really want the accurate version so that all doubting disputes will be put to an end.
Gunther's yawn when you said "I love dogs" was epic! And yes, I can absolutely see that he's descended from Fenris Wolf. The adorable side of the family.
Jon solo i want to thank you. As a norse pagan i see our runes taken and used by racist and we get lumped in the same category *sometimes* When people like you have a audience like you do, you reach the truth out to people who don't know and in turn protect a culture thats very alive and open. Freyjas love to you jon solo thank you so much.
Ooh. Actually I wanted to ask Jon and my fellow mythology/history fans, what everyone thought of Record of Ragnarok, the anime like series on Netflix. Without giving any spoilers, I will say you see appearances from many dieties across various cultures. Would love to hear people's thoughts on this.
You know i always felt fenrir represented the negative aspect of karma the you get what you deserve type of thing and it goes well in the symbolism with Odin who is an oath breaker because he broke his oath he is doomed to fail as for the god that lost his arm he represents justice only thing that keep the punishment away I guess idk any thoughts?
Aesir: "This cute little pupper will grow up to destroy all you hold dear and bring an end to the world. He must be killed." (Holds up baby Fenrir.) Me: "You know, everything I own isn't such a big deal." (Snuggles adorable world-ending wolf-pup.)
This is definitely one of those moments where you realize the butterfly effect wasn't common knowledge like if you think about it yes the prophecy said fenrir would cause something with Ragnarok but it's never touched upon about what would have happened if the aesir never did trick fenrir and betray him so for all we Andy acierno if they never tried to put those chains on him and trap him Underground he could have literally been the coolest pup ever and they instead chained them up and got one pissed-off doggo
Basically the prophecy didn't tell any great details on his role in Ragnarök, only that it would be a great role. So the Aesir fearing the worst, they treat him like shi... crap, instead of raising him and benefit from his services in Ragnarök, imagine the good boy Fenrir could have been a big player on team Aesir! Instead they made him furious, dooming themselves in the process.
The Amazons of myth, and legend are centuries old. Wonder Woman is less traditional, going back to only _around_ three quarters of a century... But it would be interesting.
Do you think if they didn't tie Fenrir up, Odin wouldn't have been killed by Fenrir in Ragnarok ? I see this a lot in Greek myths where it prophesied someone will do something, they try to stop it from happening, but it ended up happening. For example Oedipus tries to run from this fate, but ends up running right into it. He kills Laius in a scuffle at a crossroads, not knowing he's his real dad. Later, he wins the throne of Thebes and unknowingly marries his mother, Jocasta.
*Marvel, Disney didn't write the comics, and I kind of doubt they told Marvel Studios to change their own canon for the sake of a movie, it was just probably changed to easier fit within the established MCU which makes sense the way they intro'd Hela and Fenris worked a lot better than if they had tried to stick to their own canon.
He was loyal to the gods. They betrayed him. Period. Either way, modern twists on Indo-European culture has been distorted by Christians and Neo-Pagans.
Yha. The All father is a Christian thing. Neo-Pagans substitute Christian god for Odin and don’t even care about the other Gods. Most don’t even know How Odin really was.
I love Thor: Ragnarock but I’m disappointed in their Hela. Making her sister to the boys vs Loki’s daughter, makes it much more difficult to ever bring Angela Odinsdottir into the MCU. Angela be in Thor and Loki‘s actual secret sister in the comics. She’s an “Angel” from Heven and a lesbian badass. Those woke points are just sitting on the table unused, Disney/Marvel Also, mythology is not known for consistency. Just not something these story tellers worry about. Many story tellers, many versions of the same story
Yes I would drop kick it… and eat it. Jk it would be messed up to eat that puppy 😂. I would travel somewhere far and leave it somewhere else sadly. Btw these videos are two dame good 😂 keep the good work. Wouldn’t it be cool (as an idea) to have Japanese lore and stuff like that heck even something like “Anime explained” but with lore of real life character beliefs such as stuff like susanoo which is a real thing in different beliefs other than anime. Might be dumb. But it would be cool to have.
When you said, "When he opens his jaws, the top of his mouth is said to touch the sky, while his lower mouth touches the ground," the face I made was similar to Keenan's "Oh my God! Am I in a palace?!" face in that olive garden snl sketch.
The Norse gods especially Odin had a bad habit of making the prophesies come true. Like tying up Fenrir because they were scared of the damage he would do thus making him angry enough to actually do the prophesied damage. There are many other cases but suffice to say, Odin did a lot to try and save his own skin or stop Ragnarok but almost all of it ended up being the cause instead.
Lmao that's not fenrir you'll never get real fenrir he's a God he lives forever and a good boy. And you really can't get him or his soul and won't be able to bind him either. So Whats this about summoning or binding binding soul crap.
I Would Love Tv Series All Baised on Fenrir Imagine a Werewolf series With him being Chained up at the begin Till the begin of the series where he breaks out But Being the Son Of loki he is able to Become Human , And he Slowly start To create More of his Kind , it Would Be mix of werewolves and Magic , With him Being Anti-hero trying to Have Vengeance on The Gods For Leaving him In chaince ,
To kill a puppy that cute you would have to be a cold-hearted monster with no soul and if it was me I would make sure that I would do everything in my power to make fenrir not hate me so he doesn't come back for revenge and try to kill me dumb gods
Is it wrong that I side with Fenrir here? He honestly didn't deserve such a fate. Combine that with the fact that the Aisir laughed at him, and it makes it clear that they were just a bunch of bullies
What I never understood about Fenrir's story is why didn't the gods just tame him. Tyr was already feeding him so Fenrir should like him the most, he could have been an amazing ally to the Aesir.
He was one of Loki's children, his blood flowed in Fenrir's weins, I assume that could make him untammable. He even sports a certain amount of intelligence not seen in animals during the "contest", even suggesting himself, that one of the gods should put their hand into his mouth. That idea comes from Fenrir himself, so he wasn't just an ordinery wolf, who could be tamed easily. And then, there was that prophecy. A huge (intelligent) wolf should (presumably) cause some significant stuff during Ragnarök, the world ending event. What do you think they should do? Oh, hey, I've got an idea! Let's just tame this huge instrument of destruction, it will be an easy task.
I would not have hesitated to snuff out the life of the wolf pup that may sound harsh but it’s the life of the pup or that of the casualties that may be involved in the fire and anything that gets destroyed that can not be replaced like the photos of a dead loved one and things if similar value. And I have no problems separating my emotions from the things that need to be done
No, I wouldn't be able to kill the cute wolf puppy. Then again, I also wouldn't be so stupid/cruel as to tie them up and leave them alone for centuries to foster well-justified hate of me and my own to the point where they kill m,e thus making the story/prophecy true.
I'm interested to see how or if the developers of God of War will bring Fenrir into the game. Side note here, about the whole "dogs are descendants of wolves" thing, I'd like to mention that they are not descended from the modern wolves like grey or arctic wolves but rather are descendants of a long extinct species. The more you know.
I'm super excited for that too, I know it'll probably end up with Kratos fighting big wolf for cool action cutscenes but if they team up with all the giants I'ma scream
