The Metalcore Trick You're Hearing EVERYWHERE 

@@francobuzzetti9424 yes. Is actually so cool seeing these techniques getting in the modern metal-ish genres. I hope this will bring a new Celldweller, Pendulum, Blue Stahli, Qemists -like wave of artists/music.

Wait...people don't usually sidechain their bass? [shockedpikachu gif]

@@AndrewP lol No it isn't

Literally lol

haha I thought the same

Celldweller’s had about a 10 year head start on the whole Post-Hardcore genre. Blue Stahli was ahead of the curve too.

blue stahli mentioned lfggggg

Every edm producer has done this since the beginning of the genre haha

Literally no one said it wasn't. Just using a current popular band as an example lmao. Hipster nerds just have to jump in with, *pushes up glasses* well "um actually celldweller.". You're probably in every metalcore video.. "shai hulud was the first" when it was really aftershock. Also celldweller wasn't the first one to do it.. you're just insufferable 😅

@@jerryhill8281 Eat a snickers, Hilly.

album of the year, Will did a freaking amazing job producing this

@@DOLODAN808 sameeee

What album

@@touchofdeath1736 american motorsports

Your freq is way off i tuned my bass down to f# and it was mostly at 50hz. In A the freq i boost and compress is 80hz to 100hz

@@Durkhead No, he's correct. A low E on a bass in standard tuning is 41 Hz. You can easily google this. So it makes sense that a D would be at 36 Hz. The F# you tuned down to us F#0. That's 23Hz according to Fab Filter Pro-Q3. The 50 Hz you're seeing is the first harmonic. Same thing with when you're boosting 80 Hz to 100 Hz in dropped A. You're working with the harmonic that's one octave up from the fundamental. You're right to boost there because it's more audible, but that doesn't mean it's the fundamental.

You're right that the fundamental is at 36 Hz. But that doesn't mean that's where the bulk of the audible frequency is. At those frequencies, the harmonics can often be more audible than the fundamental. A clean sub synth can offer something closer to a pure fundamental.

@@rome8180 i dont need to google it i measured it myself just because you saw a chart deosnt mean your right

if you cut frequencies there is no need to be phase coherent. ie low cut on 100hz on bass, hi cut on 100 on sub synth

Or just roll off the attack of the sub and the other bass synth

@@apoplexiamusicthat would work, but the transient shaper would cause less phase shift especially in the low end.

I thought the speakers in my car were blown 😂 It took me a couple days to figure it out.

Which Fightstar song?

I don't think I've ever encountered a fightstar listener outside of a conversation about Busted or Charlie Simpson

@@shona5512 my favourite band of all time... There are dozens of us!

@@jonnymingo8386 Palahniuks Laughter!! I just went back and listened again, it’s funny even the drum reverb sounds identical haha.

@@shona5512 it’s funny I’m not even that big a fan, in the sense I don’t actively listen to fightstar regularly but they’re a great band. That first Ep is just burned in my memory cos I listened to it loads back in 2005. Seen them on that first ever tour but after that kinda fell away!

@@CrowkeeperStudios probably going for a very specific sound.

This is the way

Its a classic Bush song from the 90s

Or make the attack a little shorter? Literally anything except sidechaining your subs with a minimum phase plugin...are we crazy?

@@nikht0 won’t sidechaining give you more control just in case though? Especially since there’s a sampled 808 which may have a longer decay. But I guess the better way to make sure they are properly separated would be rendering the synth bass as audio and editing all the transients where needed.

You could but you'd have to move every note that lands with the kick manually. Across a whole track that can be a lot of work unless the kick pattern never changes.

Or have your bass player play in the pocket better.

@PaulEubanks I think you missed the bit where he said if you're using a synth for the sub bass.

The sub goes below the fundamentals of the lowest bass guitar notes because the guitars are in drop D.

I prefer Pro-MB. Soothe release is too slow even on the fastest settings.

@@BukanIbuMu that's been my experience. I'll try Pro-MB!

Soothe is only good for side chain ducking when there's a lot of frequency overlap between the instruments you're fitting together. It's also NOT the fastest compressor, contrary to what this dude says, and mostly operates only on resonant frequencies (or all of them if you open up the threshold like they're doing here). It also burns a TON of CPU. It's a resonant suppressor, that is often mis-used as a side chain compressor. You're much better off using a gate like Shaperbox or Gatekeeper tbh, but most DAWs have ultra fast compressors built-in. Logic's FET compressor is more than fast enough for rock or metal. If you need more precision you'd use an MSEG curve, EDM peeps have done this for decades.

@@PaulEubanks ya I usually just draw in EQ automation manually. It doesn't even take that long if it's just something like kick and bass separation and you're guaranteed full control

You sound smart. Maybe you should try it anyways. Just label as you go. I do save as frequently too so I can go back if I don't love my progress. Might be worth the trouble. Maybe not. You'll only know if you try. There's always some take away.

You say that but have you ever done anything that made as much as billmuri?

The problem is that both bass DI and especially bass amp tones don't have much information down in the range of the fundamental frequency. If you HPF at 100Hz, you'll get the low E fundamental at 40Hz but also the first harmonic at 80Hz which will probably be noticeably louder than the fundamental. If you used something like Surfer EQ to track the fundamental and HPF above that it might work, but a static HPF or MB crossover will not. For more raw and organic mixes I definitely wouldn't blend in a sub synth, but for genre-bending artists like Bilmuri, Polyphia, or even BMTH that have a lot of synthetic elements this is a super powerful trick to get the super solid, deep, synthetic low end you find in more EDM style genres. It all depends on the context.

​@@kebbinator your answer is the one, you use actual knowledge and point out bands that do this well. a lot of people in this comment section are just mad that this isn't the classic way they used to do things back in the olden times lol

I think it's only fast because you don't have to think about it and you can recall it easily for other mixes without really any tweaking. It's more precise in how the frequencies are being ducked but it probably uses more cpu.

@@AnimusOpus I'm pretty sure he's talking about the quick response of the plugin, which I agree with. Personally I would use a linear phase plugin for frequency dependent low-end sidechaining, that's gotta be doing some wild & inconsistent shit to the phase response, even if the kicks were all exactly the same. ProQ3 dynamics is great (I use Kirchoff EQ), or ProMB? Something linear. Maybe they fix all the low end phase with the 808s and whatnot after the fact, just seems a like it would make a lot more work? Either way, record sounds great! I personally just love talking about low end sidechaining.

@@WompRok I use TDR nova with a dynamic band for the same trick, fast attack and release. Can't afford some of these spicy plugins yet. I've been doing this trick for a few years now. Now it's the thing to use soothe 2 to do it. I can't really hear if it's that much better or not.

@AnimusOpus honestly, I try to stay away from using frequency dependent sidechaining in the low end, but of course it can be done. TDR Nova is great for freeware, but like Soothe2, looks like it does not have a linear phase mode. I'm sure if you tweak either Nova or Soothe a little bit, you can get them to sound pretty good, but if you haven't already done this, check out the waveform of the kick and bass in an oscilloscope, you might see some crazy inconsistent dovetailing happening between your kick and bass. If I remember correctly, I saw Will Putny doing some kick/bass sidechaining in a similar way using an EQ (ProQ3?) in the Mistakes Like Fractures nail the mix stream, and I believe he deliberately said he preferred using the minimum phase mode. I find it interesting because I've learned everything about low end sidechaining from Noisia & other dnb type tutorials, where this method seems to be highly frowned upon. I understand why, but at the end of the day if it sounds good it is.

@@WompRok That sounds really interesting. I'll have to look up that video. I know in metal and some bass music it's very useful if applied correctly. I've never actually thought about the minimum or linear phase aspect of it. Makes sense though. Thank you for the insight.

Just an insane amount of compression, for consistency I guess? Reduces transients clashing with vocals if I have to guess, making it all sound buttery smooth? Not sure.

Its just that he has the Logic waveform all zoomed in, it's not the clip gain.

@@alexsdstudios6580 Ahhhh this makes sense. Tried doing that in our sessions, definitely see what he's seeing now - thank you!!

Midicore??? 🤔

Hardcore agree on this. This "modern" Metalcore is pop music with guitars. I really don't know what happened to this genre at all.

Tasteful application of saturation creates aggression, which is a desirable trait in heavy music. The fuzz/distortion stuff should be used sparingly for emphasis imo

next step in music production: mixing with parallel pink noise.

@@LucasConforti a good trick for balancing!

Good, murder it all. Fuck clean.

It sounds like it would destroy a system (in a good way) on your phone and then when you play it on an actual system, it complete Doo Doo

Every band these days is.

Welcome to modern metalcore. You either like the sound or don't. I love the larger than life sound personally

@@michaelmckinnie Shitter than shit more like.

It's fucking terrible.

@@fredscott9013 billmuri is memecore, in a good way.

Hip hop producers rule the low end. Nobody is dirtier or cleaner than the hip hip producers. Lean into it dude. There's no rules. Its just what sounds best for the song at the end of the day.

Honestly every genre of electronic music usually has something similar to this going on too

No one cares