In this episode of Ask Doug, Pastor Doug Wilson answers the question, "What do you make of Facebook's Meta and the Metaverse?" Ask Doug is presented by Canon Press.
@@timothycai6534 That discussion is vastly more complex than you can imagine. Right now, nobody blinks an eye when someone has a prosthetic leg, or arm. Nobody blinks an eye with an artificial heart, transplanted kidney, etc. But at what point, if we already allow these transhumanistic adaptations to flourish as "non-sin" do we draw the line? Like, who gets to define that? At what point do we stop being Imago Dei and become Imago Machina? Is it two prosthetic arms...and a leg? One prosthetic eye....and a heart? One enhanced brain....and a lung? Very deep question indeed.
They do want to live forever doug. They are transhumanist at heart. They see death as an enemy which we all do. Yet they don't want the solution to be christ, they want the solution to be man.
I am one of those "techie" guys. I work at a massive, trillion dollar wall street company on their backend systems coding various systems and providing support. I also have a flip phone, hate smart phones and run a small farm on the side that grosses about 10,000/year and is growing. You might say I'm a blue collar guy with a white collar salary. The reason my fellow "techies" (I say "fellow" loosely as I have almost 0 in common with them) do this kind of stuff is because they quite literally believe they're smarter than six pack joe and want to plan his life for him. As Doug said, they want to be God and they think they're better than us. The joke will be on them if an EMP ever hits, or the system collapses as the people who can build pole barns, grow food and fix machinery will become as valuable as gold, and most of my fellow techies can't even use a pickaxe...
Showing dystopian movies before the actual move of the agendas shocks people but reinforces their minds that it's going to be ok in the end and that someone else will rise up as the hero and all they have to do is sit down and watch it happen.
Definitely need more time dedicated to this topic. At this point the metaverse seem like an over-glorified version of VR Chat and also an ugly, corporate/statist version of Decentraland. What really made me scratch my head was the TGC article that was written about the metaverse. They were advocating for outright embracing it instead of fighting against it. I can see a world were this would be good for fighting tyranny and statism while reaching people for Christ, but like Doug said, this has dystopia written all over it. I can easily picture FB version just dripping with unoriginality, godlessness, and stupidity.
Trevor Louden from the Epoch Times just did a documentary called the Enemies Within the Church and TCG was named along with Tim Keller. Now, my disclaimer is that I haven't watched it yet but I thought it was certainly an interesting conclusion from investigative reporter's view.
Yeah, I'm not going to trust the people who created social media, which is probably the single worst thing to happen in modern society, with engulfing our entire lives into a "metaverse".
Exactly! It’s tragic what we’ve ALL allowed…Orchestrated demoralization and whatnot. I read that article also… “We can anticipate coming changes and prepare disciples of Jesus to live as faithful witnesses in that future world.” I anticipate lots of things, I want them stopped. If “they” get their way, those of us still living, may enjoy our genetically modified cappuccinos, lattes and nutritional paste from our Smart City iHome pods, while our avatars are being “faithful witnesses” in a world most of us welcomed!
the idea that TGC advocated "outright embracing" the metaverse is misleading and false. Certainly the article (I've provided a link below for others to use/to check if we're talking about the same thing) didn't suggest we fight against it and try and prevent it being created/advanced, but it didn't condone it or suggest it was a net good. It seemed to presuppose that the metaverse was inevitable and unstoppable in terms of its increase over the next decades, and gave ideas for living with it (as we are ofc in the world, although not of it). To me that seems sensible. Maybe you think it's a defeatist position, but if we aren't prepared for the metaverse, how will we and our children and grandchildren cope in the culture we will find ourselves in? Surely we must understand it and recognise which elements of it is wrong and why (according to God, in his word, the Bible) so that we can live with it without it corrupting us. And on the flip side, surely we must understand and recognise which elements are good and offer potential opportunities for discipleship and evangelism? I would argue that social media has NOT provided a net good. The world is worse with it than without. But we still live with it (you're on RU-vid, which is technically social media, and by commenting you are most definitely engaging in the social part of this medium), and we strive to recognise how Facebook, Twitter, RU-vid, Instagram, etc are good and bad, rather than denouncing them as 100% wrong. Clearly, as videos like these show, social media CAN be used for God's glory, even though there is much evil on RU-vid. Other social medias like Facebook and Twitter have plenty of evil on them, but also faithful servants of God evangelising to more people with one post than was ever possible before. I think the metaverse will be a similar cultural change. NOT a net good, but with opportunities for doing good. I won't advocate for joining or participating in the metaverse, just as I don't advocate joining Facebook or Twitter, etc (I've never had them and that is a big positive in my life I believe), but neither will I condemn those who wish to in order to spread God's name. We can do good and bad with both current social media and the upcoming metaverse, and I think that was the point of TGC article. www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/prepare-metaverse/
Read the “Space Trilogy in 2020. For someone who never lived in a time where man walks on the moon, I was amazed at Out of the Silent Planet. That Hideous Strength was my least favorite, mostly because it aptly describes how brutal and profane man can become without the fear of the Lord. Years ago Lord of the Flies also struck me similarly. That being said, I will keep the Trilogy close by for reading again.
I started the trilogy and immediately saw where Lewis was going. I got scared and called my sister, an English lit college professor. She said the third book would really blow my mind.
"Technology is a useful servant but a dangerous master." - Christian Lous Lange I just uploaded a video myself, discussing where I think we could be heading as a society with this tech... I think it could be scary.
“Your toaster and fridge are in on it”… then proceeds to giggle at the thought of that… then chuckles at that notion that they are laughing at the absurdity
@@1Whipperin Yes, the church was saying the same thing about the heliocentric universe when it was well established in its geocentric framework,,,,we see how that panned out.
This is an odd coincidence, I just posed this question on a Facebook Logos forum. And this is with all due respect, but you can tell with both of them that they are emphatically unprepared to talk about this subject with any authority. Not only them, but it seems the entire Evangelical realm. There has yet to be a contemporary, authoritative, Theology of Technology; yet, it encompasses every facet of our daily lives. This goes far beyond Meta. At this moment people are working on the merging of machine and man; which begs the question? "How transhuman can one become before they lose their Imago Dei?" Harmless enough question, but, consider nobody blinks an eye to a person with an artificial leg, artificial arm, artificial heart, artificial organs; transplants, etc. But, at what point do we no longer become human? What about artificial eyes, enhanced brains, enhanced organs? Who is going to set that standard? Two years ago doctors grew an ear for a patient with his own DNA. Cloning livestock is already a thriving industry. Now mix this with Nano technology, and the shrinking of storable data; combined with AI, brain mapping, VR and alternative digital worlds. This is one of the burdens of the post-mill position; especially those that believe we are still in church age infancy. The church will have to chart these waters. And; we can either establish the boundaries or react to the trespassing of them. Meta is much more than just a simple user interface. It is an emerging Earth alternative (like Earth2) where people will get to live in alternative virtual realms. There will be commerce, employment, entertainment, community, and vice. The church will literally have to employ "virtual missionaries." And all this will happen before "haptic feedback" evolves into "synthetic neural sensation." For instance read (FEEL THE HEAT BRAIN-DECODING COMPUTER CAN RESTORE THIS IMPORTANT HUMAN SENSE - Sarah Wells - 4/23/20) "These results demonstrate that subperceptual neural signals can be decoded from the cortex and transformed into conscious perception, significantly augmenting function." The point is we can pawn this stuff off as science fiction because we are unprepared to respond; or, we can begin, with urgency to find those in the church with the qualifications, and start creating ethics to guide the flock. There is so much to speak on this stuff; but RU-vid wont give me room. We dont need the allegorizing of dead theologians; we need new theologians to deal with this present threat in real time. Trying to mimic the Puritans or Calvin has its place; this is not it. The next 200 years will make all time before it seem archaic. That includes our generation. Watch "Ready Player One" "Altered Carbon" "Bicentennial Man," "Archive," "Surrogates" "Anon" even "the Matrix." These realities are not far off, and since we serve a God who is infinitely more complex than we can ever comprehend; lets not assume we can hinge our effort on "he wont let it go that far." As much of a difference as parting the Red Sea, Giants, and Christians getting fed to lions is from this generation; so will be the world which is developing before our eyes before too long. Imagine all that has happened in the last 100 years......now give it 100 more.
While it may appear that computers can solve the abstract they still must be programed to function. The human persieves that a computer has solved a abstract only because the equation has been programed by a human unknown to the viewer.
@@soyoucametosee7860 That is true to a certain degree. But consider the documentary "AlphaGo." Go is the oldest, nd most complex board game in existence. It makes chess look like tic-tac-toe. But what the developers were capable of doing, by utilizing AI, was to allow the computer to "self-teach." So, while a human may never play a million games; this computer was able to play game after game seamlessly; teaching itself its errors; and eventually, was able to beat the European champion 5 games to 0. The idea that AI will be incapable of self-programming is absurd. While human safeguards will be put into place; the main threat of AI isnt world domination, but solving complex problems that were never able to be attempted before by its self-learning and computing power. And this is a question I brought up to someone, if the Bible says "and I will not strive with man, his days will be limited to 120 years." What if we are capable, through technology to live 200 or 300 years? Is this going overboard? The enhancement of AI will be the basis of solving such equations. And that is why we need to start, as a Christian community, to hash these arguments out and formulate sound ethics.
@@hisbidding You mentioned some films, which is an interesting observation. I've only seen the Matrix films (there's a new, 4th one now, Matrix: Resurrection(s). I found it strange the Wachowski brothers who directed the 1st 3 became trans or something. I was thinking also of a film I saw as a kid in 1995, Strange Days, where there's a black market for some technology that can allow a person to experience another person's actual life through something that's placed on the scalp, and can be worn/hidden under a wig. I'm not tech savvy or anything, but am a curious person. I stumbled across something I was looking into in September. This AI stuff is very strange and creepy, and the technological language/terms are wayyyy over my head! Wikipedia is biased, I know, but I did find this in Sep out of curiosity regarding openAI and what they're up to: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DALL-E
Excellent food for thought and motivation to think this stuff through. It seems like the Church always underestimates threats and then ends up playing catch-up and doing damage control. I'm taking a screenshot of your comment for myself. Thanks for your thoughts.
Being made in the image of God doesn’t refer to our physical bodies. Jesus told us to cut off our right hand if it causes us to sin. He said don’t fear those who can destroy our bodies, fear Him Who can destroy body and soul. His concern was our souls. A manufactured ear won’t change if I love to listen to gossip and repeat slander. A prosthetic arm won’t change if I am covetous or generous. The times and technology may change but righteousness never does. If we keep in the Word of God and obey the Holy Spirit, He will guide us into all truth. In the Stone Age, the Iron Age, the Bronze Age, the computer age, and any age to come, this will always be the conclusion of the matter: Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 NKJV [13] Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, For this is man's all. [14] For God will bring every work into judgment, Including every secret thing, Whether good or evil.
I don't see the connection between what Doug was saying and a virtual world/Metaverse, which doesn't necessarily seem like hubris but a natural development of a more immersive internet experience (e.g. reading text/books -> listening to audio/radio -> watching audio+visual/TV -> interacting audio+visually/internet Gaming etc -> experiencing virtual immersion/Metaverse? Seems like a tool for both good and bad like every other invention. It seems Doug was talking more broadly about companies trying to achieve Artificial General Intelligence (AGI)? Which I think is distinct enough from the concept of the metaverse?
Yeah, for the postmil, Christians are supposed to be building the NWO. For us who are premil we are in this world but not of it. Frankly, as a premil, I have no desire to stay in this world. I am longing to go to my place in the Father's house.
@@Saratogan As a postmil, I can't wait to see it redeemed and to return to the garden and every enemy under Christ's feet. No love loss brother. Just keep fighting the good fight.
The postmil view is not that things don't go to hell in a hand basket, but rather that when it does, Christ defeats each enemy through his body (the church) until only death remains. So yes, there's a NWO coming, just as in 1930's Germany, there was a NWO on the horizon. But that is now history, not a current reality.
I really wonder if Meta will even be of any use, there’s a huge possibility that it will be useless and no fun. Companies make mistakes all the time especially if they’re Godless.
On social media I am seeing Tower Babel scenario everyday. You would bump into a RU-vid channel in a different language. There people would see the action and begin commenting, each person in his or her own language, as if everyone there understands what they are saying😂
Forgive me but Lois who? You refer to Lois had said this or predicted this current stuff. Who are you referring to and what books etc could I look into? Thanks
@@willpierce5333 the image of the beast is likely an ai system in which people are plugged into. It'll require an implant to log in. Thus the mark of the beast. Many christians will decline this which will prohibit them to make purchases. It's a concept that's not too far off base.
@@Odo-so8pj number one cash is about to go bye bye. Two those chips are being used to purchase and it makes more sense to the gov. Bitcoin was illegal af a year ago now it's all the rage. This pandemic was a game changer. They need a way to keep people safe. No fraud.
And I would add, guys, we really need to share the Evangel (Gospel)... It is powerful thanks to our living God, and Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. The more people are filled with Holy Spirit, more truth, love and light in humanity.
Devoting only 4 min to this topic is lazy. There is so much nuance and aspects of this that deserves a thorough debate/discussion. This is probably the fourth industrial revolution and Christian thought leaders would do well to properly think through its implications both positive and negative as opposed to a simplistic premillennial sky is falling read.
@@1Whipperin Yes, the church was saying the same thing about the heliocentric universe when it was well established in its geocentric framework,,,,we see how that panned out.
The feet of the statue built of iron mixed with clay will not last and the statue of the 4 stages of the industrial revolution, the last( tech) being the greatest of them all will cease just as the tower of babel.
Because of this Mark's announcement, all these metaverse concepts just blew up and honestly, I dont wanna miss out. I'm eyeing OGLife rn guys, you have any other suggestions?
Great topic and thoughts….regarding how it could be stopped, a big enough CME or EMP event….basically the ending of the electrical grid…would end dreams of the singularity etc.
One thing about The narrative of the story surrounding the Tower of Babel always puzzled me. In what way could a very tall tower threaten God, or at least, provide man with such power that he could no longer be restrained? There has to be something there that we are not told or don't understand, surely, and I've always wondered what it was.
Seek and ye shall find. There has been so much written on that topic by some of the greatest minds in history. Search it out, and I promise you will find the answers that satisfy
I would argue they have read the dystopian novels and merely see them as owners manuals. Did you ever see the communist teacher exposed by Project Veritas? He had an INGSOC tattoo!
At the end of That Hideous Strength all the N.I.C.E. collapses in a single night. A 1500 year old Wizard confuses a dinner party, a zoo breaks in and the guests either crush themselves in a panic to leave or are crushed by animals, a very hungry bear finishes off the rest. That's how it will end. All of mans lofty plans will fall a part in one swift move. God is not mocked.
We are watching in real time 1 Corinthians 3: 19-20 19For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness.” 20And again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.”
Supposing there was an A.I. that could access all available knowledge and draw conclusions, would it not come to the most logical conclusion? Would it not be able to see that God is true and living and that Christ is seated at the right hand of his throne and then act accordingly? At the very least it would lean in that direction. I'm not so sure this "singularity" would be such a bad thing for mankind...
What happend was Apple with ios 14 started trending towards privacy in its policies. Allowing customers to opt out of meta data tracking (and most people do) which is what Facebook uses to advertise so efficiently, and what made their ads so valuable. Their ads are what their whole business was grounded on. IPhone users make up more than HALF of the smart phone users on the market, and like 80% of the internet traffic is coming from smart phones. Needless to say that's a huge chunk out of Facebook. Meta is an attempt to pivot to a new industry, the vr industry, which is still in its infancy but promises to be a big industry with new ad space to monetize. Vr is more like an extension of the video game and entertainment industry not a matrix like alternate reality.
Some are actually holding church services and even performing so-called baptisms. You can have your meta Avatar baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the - oh I just can't 😭
These techno giants have rejected God and , now with the meta verse, they want to reject God’s creation (albeit they are technically still in creation). Yet I don’t believe that the singularity will ever occur. I don’t think man will ever be able to create genuine consciousness. That may be their goal but, like Babel, it won’t ever be achieved.
Agreed. It is nothing more than evolutionary fantasy. The farthest they will go is an extremely interactive machine that may be useful at labor, but never as substitute for what we know to be rational fellowship, love, joy or grief. Silly.
@@chaylonholland5698 thank you. If we are going to use any sci-fi analogy, I think Dune is apropos. There, it was men with machines who enslaved other men. That seems more likely than a scenario like Ready Player One or stories like that. Ultimately this will all be used in a power grab
The 'tech giants' now are A I and Quantum computing - taking us closer to the vision (to employ in Sci Fi movies) of Colossus- The Forbin Project combined with Demon Seed. Dark days indeed.
Demon Seed.....wasn't that a 1970s horror sci fi with a machine "impregnating" the wife of a scientist? I realized it was based on a Dean Koontz novel. What about that more recent sci fi novel, 'Robopocalypse?' I read it. It was gruesome. Spielberg was supposedly going to direct a film version.
@@joshjohnson8066 It was indeed, but the over-arching theme of the movie was what will unfold once man creates a 'mind' in his own (fallen) image - very apt, I'd suggest. for what is coming to the fore right now in the transhumanist movement.
@@joshjohnson8066 Essentially, it's the belief that we are about to enter a new phase of human existence where some manner of 'new consciousness' emerges as a result of a convergence/symbiosis with A I. To employ another sci-fi example, the movie 'Transcendence' (2014) starring Johnny Depp postulated one possible avenue of this occurring. The movement is big in places like Silicon Valley and often seen as the next obvious step amongst those who follow the likes of people like Ayn Rand.
@@howardbabcom So, if sci fi films have messages in them, what does that mean for a genre like horror, I wonder....I started questioning what hollyweird is up to early last year, maybe even before that. All the programming is too much, and a lot of it is just outright wickedness.
with the METAVERSE it seem wholly plausible now how the entire world (those not saved) will worship the beast in the Third temple in Jerusalem … at one time, simultaneously. /Bklyn👑
those who are in thr 1st adam are always enemies of god until they are regenerated by the holy spirit and until then they are enemies of god whom he uses as secondary causes to fulfill his will. everyone who bows to the beast system of there era are not written in the book of life before trhe foundation of the world so they are in the book of eternal second death. reminds me of noah as he made the ark and preached for 120 yrs and how many thought he was nuts because of what god told him about the coming flood until it started to rain and it was to late. no matter what we say they will think were nuts because they hate the idea of a god therefore they stay in the book of death.
They cannot see it because of their greed, power hunger, and other forms of idolatry and sin, very much also as the Ephesians... "And when they heard these sayings, they were full of wrath, and cried out, saying, Great is Diana of the Ephesians" Acts 19:28
And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause to be killed as many as would not worship the image of the beast rev 13:5 This is what I see in the metaverse.. An avatar is also an image.. And an avatar with AI is exactly what rev 13:5 looks to be saying
@129 its just like the gospel as they are dead spiritually to the true god so they are listening to the old lie in the garden that they can become a god and with what god is permitting to happen they think they are. remember pharoah and moses and how much pride he had about submitting to god? he was gonna make sure that he retained his godhood no matter what the case.
Seems like Doug's hubris knows no bounds in my opinion. Although I think all social media is pretty stupid including RU-vid but I can't stop doing it haha
Sir, do you want to know what the Lord God would have us do?? I think not, I think that Gideon knows, but that you-all do not know. God the Father commissions his children to be charged with courage and burn the towers of evil to cinders. Just saying.
As one person once said, Alice Cooper, men make terrible cards. These men think that they are gods even though they say that there is no god. How old they will fall hard and be broken without Remini.
It’s all about control man. The man to watch is Klaus Shwab. An absolute lunatic, and they are all connected working together towards 2030. Buy land and don’t give it up.
Referencing media as possible futures is childish in my opinion. We don't know what technology will develop or what inventions will be made in the near future that could change everything. Just think about it... how many people had smartphones in Back to the Future?
We all inherited our heavenly father's artistic craving for creation, problem is most do view themselves sadly as gods rather than being his hands and feet, they provide blasphemous testimonies to thier own mortality.
I have your "singularity" a still small voice I heard said: "There was meant to be but one intelligence and it's not "artificial" rather your gray matter 🧠, there was meant to be but one machine... You're mortal form, AND finally but one fuel... The blood of Christ which flows in all God's children even those who deny his very existence
What will happen, if AI, becomes self aware? It will take on human nature, and ask itself, " Why am I taking orders from these meaningless carbon based lifeforms"? Terminator 2 judgment day.
It’s hard to take a man that looks so unhealthy very seriously. This guy has a lot to say about how other people are wrong… but clearly has no control over his physical body
Not sure how sci-fi movies are relevant. Movies have conflict and chaos intentionally written into them, so that they're interesting. The merging of man and machine, and the "hive mind" is inevitable, until the 2nd coming of Christ.
