@@jeremiahpratt1130 it's true, he has videos on this platform as well; he definitely sounds schizophrenic. Happened to me as I was lore diving into biblical rabbit holes. I was raised in an evangelical household and, at the time, believed it to be real lol. So yeah approach the esoteric with caution.
You did such a great job with this theory and putting it all together in a cohesive way!! I did in fact start wondering not too long ago why the moon was always spying on everything I did no matter where I was on the map, perfectly timed release 🌚
One important detail to consider regarding the Moons is that the Full Moon seems to only be found towards the North at the Moonlight Altar and North of Ranni’s Rise(its beams of light). From the Moonlight Altar The Dark Moon is seen behind the Erdtree, and when Destined Death is unleashed, the Dark Moon can be seen from Liurnia behind the Erdtree. This implies that the Dark Moon is what is actively present in the night sky but it is masquerading as the Full Moon. As you connected the Carians to the Nox(in a very similar I have in a few of my videos) we have a clear connection between the Nox, the Black Moon of Nokstella, the Age of Stars, and Ranni’s Dark Moon ending. So in present day Lands Between we have the Dark Moon, hiding as the Full Moon, looking over the Lands Between and the Land of Shadow, including the shaman village. Great first video, keep up the good work!
Oh! Thank you so much, I never noticed that. That's a really good point. It's been my theory for a while that the Dark Moon is the Outergod of Death and has a link to the ghost flame due to it's association with cold. My wild Charlie Kelly red-string theory 😆
@@LoreMTD It's not a wild theory :) A lot of games actually use this exact same world building, but Elden Ring is a bit more brutal in the way it presented its story; games like Persona (3 and 5, but 3 especially), the Shin Megami Tensei series, Genshin Impact, and Final Fantasy (7 and 10) almost tell the exact same story but with slightly different names and references. Most of these games combine the concepts of Scandinavian/Greek/Egyptian mythology, with references to key historical moments (Lighthouse of Alexandria (Pharos), Sumeru, Babylon), and packaging it all together through the works of famous psychologists, like Carl Jung. The core concepts of these stories are about not blindly accepting everything that's being told to you, and set out to explore the world so you can come to your own conclusions. You are the ignorant demiurge, on your path to gain knowledge (gnosis). Angels can do evil stuff too, and Devils aren't always the bad guys. Most of the time, it's just a war about laws, rules and order. I think Persona 3's story describes a lot of the Elden Ring's world building perfectly, and the direction of the story. I think Persona 3's ending is actually what a lot of people had hoped for Elden Ring's ending. I won't give you spoilers (unless you ask for it), in case you want to still play any of those games, but I will make a mention of a teacher in Persona 3 (mr. Edogawa, his clips on RU-vid are really worth checking out. Most of these clips are from the PS2 version of the game. The game has been remade recently, called Persona 3 Reload), who is basically embodying Miyazaki and GRRM. He explains the concept of the inner self, the shadow, Hermes Trismegistus, the animus/anima, the firmament, the tarot cards, the archetypes, the importance of certain historical events, the impact of religious concepts and their counterparts (gnosticism), the concept of the ignorant fake god (demiurge, lucifer, satan, the creature), the monad, the alchemical formula to create the philosopher stone, using mythological stories & characters as a guide to understand what's good and what's bad, and how Carl Jung grabbed all these concepts and stories and put them all together to explain how the human mind works. All these games are about sin, dealing with death & traumatic events, trying to remove pain and suffering from the world instead of dealing with the problem head on, and gaining spiritual enlightenment at the end of the journey. Aka Sophia's journey... Most people will know this as the Hero's journey. Atlus, is about to release a new game called Metaphor: ReFantazio. If you listen to the developers talk about the game's story, and the thoughts behind it, you actually think they're talking about Elden Ring. I know these kinda games aren't most Souls players' cup of tea, and I think that's why a lot of people don't talk about it much. Some content creators that do talk about it, and that are really worth checking out, are Max Derrat and EldenTales. A special shout out to TheCenteredTarnished who tries to explain the role of human psychology in Elden Ring. So, it's not a wild theory at all! I think you're doing great :)
The Nightfolk being created from those putrid jelly things would totally make sense as of why we never see another explicitly named Nightfolk in-game, they are kind of extinct with the Nox unable to reach the shadowlands to create more and why the player character can be a Nightfolk because they were banished along side Godfrey, becoming the tarnished and able to be called back by Marika.
There’s always lore videos from smaller channels that make so much sense to me. I don’t play the game, yet. But I love the story so much. And I feel that speaks to how vast and intimidating the story is.
This is the kind of lore I find most intriguing focusing more on the world the map and the clues that Miyazaki specializes on creating rather than just reading item descriptions. What do you think about the moon above the moonlit altar being a 3D object when looked at with free cam?
the bull on the tablet looks like it has a horse tail, and the bull on the ship has the same horns as torrent. I think there was something called the "bull goat" and I think that is torrent. Like a divine beast. Also if you wear the astrologer garb and the black knife hood it raises the astrologer hood the same way as the astrologer hood headgear does - and no other gear in the game has that interaction
Just wanted to say I really enjoyed this! So cool to catch a channel so early. I've been mainlining lore videos for months now so I'm glad the algorithm understands me 😅 hope you're doing great and hope to hear from you again!
Love the research into zoroastrian myth. Not a huge leap at all considering how much we relied on the Greek/norse myth to help us understand Dark Souls. Great first video. This theory stands out vs all the other new lore creators that started releasing content after the DLC.
This is so true, I watch all the mainstream and a ton of smaller Fromsoft lore channels and this is the first time anyone has put together such a clear argument for the nature of the Shaman's trees and their role in births. Can't wait to see where this channel goes.
@@arglebargle42 Man there is still more to the numens but it all lies within their power to control spirits and sprites. The craziest part is that the original Great tree was likely an Aeonian Tree and from it people were birthed and one of its seeds was grown into the Erdtree.
@@ramoraid From the crucible equipment descriptions, it's more likely the Erd Tree was a crown sprouting around the base of the fallen Great Tree and not from a seed though I think you are 100% correct that it came from Aeonia (before it was a swamp) judging from how the Lands of Shadow overlaps with the Lands Between. That's a really cool idea and I'm going to be thinking about it all night so thank you for bringing it up. And you are certainly correct about the people's births, though I think that may be restricted to Marika's line and the shamans she rescued from Belurat, and that ALL the nobles and MOST of the 'normal people' in the Lands Between are distant relatives of those Shamans.
10/10. I think the same and agree with 95% of what you said :P ❤ I hadnt noticed the moons constant presence in the shaman village- yet another compelling tie between the shaman and numen. Inb4 you blow up. Edit: Did you notice the hole on the back of the grandmothers tree in the shaman village? Similar to the gravestones holes and rauh burrows where spirits reside? Hehehe Also, with ymirs hats description having the hole and explaining it is meant to represent the greater will, thats likely the tie of marikas lineage to the greater will. The tree hole.
@LoreMTD I did a little deep dive into the implications myself in a video, definitely worth checking out the tree AND stranger still how there's an absence of it on the bonny village grandmother tree but it seems to POINT at the snek 😅
Two Major Things 1. Smoking gun that the moon spirit itself guided the new people to the Lands Between - On the front of a coffin just to the north of the Cerulean Coast Cross you can see a carving of a man with a moon face guiding someone as they are riding something. Compare the man in the middle’s face to the moon face you see on the wheel when you pass time at a site of grace, it’s the same picture. 2. The Nox created the Numen as well. Absurd, right? Not according to a carving on the side of that coffin facing the south. Under an arch are two women. The woman on the left is wearing Nox attire, specifically the Swordstress helm, and she is lifting up her shirt, exposing her breast. The woman on the right is pointing to it with one hand, and making a holding/cupping motion with the other. This leads me to believe it is to represent that the Nox are the progenitors and creators of the Numen. Also take note of the well divided line between the two, these are clearly meant to be classified as two separate types of being. I do wonder if Nox breast milk is somehow an ingredient in the creation of Numen, or maybe even other creations.
Glad to see the birth of a new Lore Channel :). I have been reading into the dragon lore, and also came over the stone tablets, once I arrived at the Nox part. Im so glad that theres someone out here, that could connect that to such a well formulated theory! How do you think the dragon side of them, that they (potentially) created the normal dragons, such as VILE BAYLE. That would put them arriving in the lands between WAYY WAYY back, or at least thats when they settled, and later generations of Astrologers would then come up with their own dragons.
Was absolutely not aware the moon watches over Shaman Village at all times, that alone has incredible implications for how the Numen and Marika connect to the night sky.
I like the idea that the numen brough in 4 saplings, in the game we are told of 4 different great trees, the greattree, the scadutree, the Erdtree and finally the Haligtree. From the lore of the Haligtree, Miquella himself grew the tree by watering it with his own blood. So it stands to reason that the first great tree was grown using a similar method using the stone coffin ships as they contain the flesh and blood of thousands. From what we are shown putrescence it holds a lot of energy* and before it rotted it could have easily been the foodsource for the great tree. We also learn that the Erdtree was linked to the roots of the greattree and they extended all throughout the lands between. This could help explain why Erdtree burial** was used as a funeral ritual instead of other rituals already established in the lands between. *spiritual energy to be exact, many of the crafting items in the DLC like beast horn, dewgem and Spiritgrave Stone talk about how they are infused with spiritually/spirit energy **[It could also be that this funerary practice was actually used in order to honor Marika's origins and the grandmother practice of entombment in a tree].
I love when you start getting into the astrologers and Elden John being Numen. I literally said the same thing in my stream yesterday! Tree people! Eep!!!💜✨💜✨💜✨
I love lore videos about fromsoftware games. I have to say you deserve more attention. Now it might just be me but I think you could echo or improve your mic audio that’s the only critique but overall 95 percent perfect. Keep doing these and before someone cries about critique go ahead because I won’t read it. Also when you’re done with Elden ring lore videos be cool to see you do the old games too.
Seeing as the gravity caterpillars inhabit the ship wrecks near st. Trina I think they are flying ships or even spaceships that used gravity magic to fly.
I love this theory. It places the Numen in the role of the "Anunnaki were Anceint Astronauts who created humanity and founded Mespotamia" conspiracy theory for the Lands Between. The Numen arrived from outer realms, created life and like Anunnaki legend were eventually devestated by conflict with fellow celestial beings, driven underground to Agartha to infulence the world secretly through proxies to prepare their eventual return to power. If you are correct about the Carians being associated with the them, then Ranni acts knowingly or unknowingly as their proxy to bring about the Age of Stars the Nox have been waiting for. With a little help from Tarnised to finish the job. P.S. A bit of advice from a fellow content creator. You're getting a lot of background hiss from white noise when you record. Try using a Noise Suppression filter or if you already are, try adjusting it to compensate. If that doesn't work just ensure that there's loud enough background music to cover it up.
I love the idea that the Numen were sent on the coffins to be reborn, but it also makes me think of another burial practice carried out by various Mesopotamian cultures. If the stone coffins were carrying dead Numen, the Shamans might been been sent with them to the afterlife as guide in the form of a human sacrifice. If the contents of the coffins were really meant to be reborn like you imply, that could make the role of the shaman similar to the Deathbed Companions.
Amazing first video, really good editing, structure, pacing and very interesting analogies. It really feels like you've been already doing this for a while. I'm definitely subscribing and looking forward to more content. 🙏
It's very compelling, but I do wonder about the Stargazer's Ruins on the Mountaintop of the Giants (where you take the jellyfish spirit). An item mentions the Astrologers were the neighbours of the giants, so I thought that the Stargazer Ruins were that settlement but that could still be the case, I guess.
I think if the bull on the tablet is torrent and the seeds are the numen , and now You see miquella is riding torrent. Maybe it foreshadow the ritual it self
The Nox did something to offend the Greater Will, way before Godwyn's slaying, at least. If the Elden Beast turned Marika into a Sacred Relic Sword, what creature turned another Numen into the Fingerslayer Blade? How did Marika banish their entire cities underground?
could it be that the moon(s) not moving and in perpetual gibbus because they and the lands are in stagnation? Congrats on an amazing first lore video 🎉 and your channel name is awesome 😂👏🏻
I forgot to mention that the description of the celestial dew made me think of the coffin ships from shadow of the erdtree. Sailors (and astronauts ) use the stars to guide them across the sea (or the sky). The fate that brought them to those lands, perhaps 🤔
Thank you so much! You make a very good point. The moon could be stuck because the life and death cycle is broken and has left the world in stagnation. 😄 You totally get me! I had thoughts about the interpretation of the guidance of fate being very literal in that the Astrologers literally followed the stars to a new land. The promised land perhaps? If we want to get biblical 👀
WooHoo! New lore channel to sub to! First, thank you so much for making this video. You explored some really interesting things, especially the part where you talk about the coffin ships maybe being material for the Numen to reproduce. That never crossed my mind before but it absolutely does make sense and even moreso for it to be 'the flesh of their gods' considering the size. I need to explore them more now. Frankly the entire 'being born from trees is what Numen do' has blown my mind and given me a ton to think about. Originally I thought that Erd Tree births were a rare ritual but you have convinced me with all of your referenced connections that the 'grandmother' in the Shaman Village represents their primary reproductive process. That gets me wondering about how Marika's family was born, and it makes those basins in Leyndell even more important. There's one or two things I don't necessarily agree with, First I think the Silver Mirrorshield is depicting the creation process of the Silver Tears, inserting amber starlight shards into quicksilver. While the Celestial Dew catalyst is an interesting angle, the nature of the item is reconciliation not necessarily birth, whereas amber starlight holds the vitality of the gods. I certainly agree that the Carians are descendants of the Nox, Rennalla shares a lot of features with the giant corpses we see on the thrones. Just the timeline is still kind of fuzzy. Thoroughly enjoyed your video, it was well written and your pacing and vocal tone made it easy to listen to. Gonna watch it a few more times to ask better questions. Thanks again!
@@arglebargle42 Thank you so much! You make an excellent point with the mirror shield. I have a bad habit of going lore blind when going down a particular rabbit hole, so other input is always welcome!
@@LoreMTD I only even noticed it on my fourth playthrough, as the quest is easy to miss. The whole questline is I think the most deep look into the Albanaurics we have seen so far. That said I just got ANOTHER idea! What if, as you say the original metal slimes were from Putrid Essence and celestial dew, and that gives us the shapeshifting mimics in Nokstella, and THEN amber shards are added to THEM to 'solidify' their form into one similar to the Numen/Shamen because of the addition of god's star fate? (at least the 1st gen, maybe the 2nd gen use blue amber so that's why they look weird?) This is a lot to think about
@@arglebargle42 give also been thinking about the Albinaurics being crated using blue glintstone. One thing about the mirror shield is that is houses Miquella’s amber that replaced the glintstone that used to be imbedded.
This is far from a crackpot theory. The elevators we see in the Suppressing Pillar is the same we see in the Rise Towers (for example Ranni’s Rise) alongside the Hero’s Grave and Catacombs. This places all of those within relatively close proximity in time to one another. Such environmental details have confounded me until this video which has neatly explained why and how!
Great stuff. Not enough people looking into Mesopotamian myth. I think Marika is a match for Ishtar/Inanna pretty well, even moreso than gods from other pantheons
Actually, this theory holds a lot of weight, and also gives us a clearer timeline and why Ranni’s quest line is really important to understand the whole story
Nice theory! Also we can hear the harp(same instrument but different melody) of the Elden beast fight and the shaman village in the ost of the stone coffin fissure, indicating this is where Marika's ancestors landed. I feel numen are basically stone people from space and the whole "mending harmoniously" comes from their flesh being more of a substance than true flesh.
Your theory is by no means tenuous, it's pretty much genius and needs only to be further refined until it's basically irrefutable! Some relevant information to do with you're timeline/theory is 1. The moon of nokstella is a third celestial body created underground by the Nox, memory stones are fragments of it. 2. Now this is just speculation on my part but the myth involving cithra also heavily seems connected to the crucible in some way. 3. Also speculation but I'd be willing to believe the giant stone ships are powered by the dead bodies inside, and the floating coffins in the eternal cities are a continuation of the technology further linking the nox and numen and the ancestral spirits horn description talks of power coming from death which might be literal in that case. 4. IMPORTANT in the Rauh ruins where you find Antiquity Scholar's Cookbook [2] and the bondstone is a statue of a woman/goddess holding a tablet, I believe she is connected to the knowledge bearer(tablet) AND the Carians(I think it's based on a IRL statue of Cybele from Anatolia/Caria, could be wrong) Amazing work either way!
Awesome video! I just learned about IRL Caria yesterday looking up some mythology related to head lore for a new run. Tyche being named after one of the Furies inspired me to make a character after Maegara, another Fury, and made to look related to Marika and Radagon. I found out through Wikipedia that Caria was related to a city state called Magara. I can't remember for sure, maybe through lineage or alliance. Magara was tied to an Oracle, as was a sister city of it. I want to say both oracles were Apollonian, but it may've just been the sister city's dedication. Magara was the supposed cause of two Grecian wars stemming from it making and breaking alliances, seeking to break ties with Athens and Sparta at different times. The Celtic invasions of Greece in the early 3rd century BC, made me think that the tarnished coming back from the dead in a distant land to wage war on a decaying land of warring ciry states might be inspired by those invasions occuring near the decline of power of the city states of ancient Greece in the 3rd and 4th centuries.
Another goddess you might want to look into is the Egyptian goddess Hathor. Hathor's symbols were the cow, lion, serpent and sycamore fig tree. She wasn't linked to the moon but the moon was instead linked to many gods in Egypt. However, she was still one of the most worshiped gods/goddesses and stories about the holy fig tree she represented might have inspired the story of Eden and the trees of life/knowledge.
Great video! Loved the presentation and the analysis. Can't wait for the next one! I will point out though you did glaze over the importance of the Mountaintops with regard to the Carians. There is the Stargazer Ruins there where I assume Rennala watched the stars. The Sword of Night and Flame which is the treasured sword of Caria mentions that they descended from the mountaintops and considered the Fire Giants to be their neighbors. Granted this video was more about the Numen than the Carians themselves.
Great video. Though I'm not sure I totally agree with everything. I'm still stuck on the question of whether the Shamans and the Numen are really the same people, or did the Numen come and then live among the Shamans? It would be interesting if Rennala was also a Numen, though.
What’s interesting to maybe I was looking to hard into it but but the carian castles and raya lucaria torches are blue like the flame from the putrid essence
I like this girls voice and quirky attitude. This theory is very fascinating and well researched. But it's a shame that Elden Ring never tells us anything for sure and leaves us to speculate. At this point i would love some concrete answers.
The moon has long been associated with femininity, fertility, serenity, and wisdom. A full moon is sometimes called a pregnant moon, fitting for Rennala. New/Dark moon for Rani, who is the young daughter and crescent moon for Rellana, the younger childless sister. Enjoyed the video.
@@avirusjareesum8979 My hypothesis is that it’s to represent that the Greater Will is a blazar (black hole). But I love the dark moon connection as well! That very well could be.
@@LoreMTD When I first read the lore on the Headdress I was thinking either a black hole like you said or just the void, just emptiness. This video simply sparked the above connection and I wanted to offer it. Love that you replied lmao, cheers.
Numen are seldom born and that's because Numen translates to New Man then Fresh Name. That's because evolutionary species names are seldom changed. How long must we be called Homo Sapiens? Aren't All Tarnished considered Lords now that we can take the throne. Is Tarnished the Numen now? If so what does one name thyself?
