The Mormon Plan of Salvation 

I need to apologize for one mistake in the video. At 49 minutes 34 seconds, I say that the information on LDS baptism I present is LDS folk doctrine, and not from their Apostles and Prophets. I was recently corrected by a Mormon that this information is in fact from their leadership. In Duties and Blessings of the Priesthood, it says 2 priests much watch to make sure all parts of the body and clothing are fully immersed. If not, the baptism must be repeated. www.lds.org/manual/duties-and-blessings-of-the-priesthood-basic-manual-for-priesthood-holders-part-b/priesthood-and-church-government/lesson-5-performing-priesthood-ordinances?lang=eng Tim

Brigham Young said that you are damned if you deny polygamy. "Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, p. 266)

Brigham Young said that you can't get to the highest heaven without Joseph Smith's consent. " . . . no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 289).

I am in utter Shock!!! I had No idea this is what is taught in Mormonism!! How could anyone actually believe all of this?? This 14/15 year old kids experience with this supposed angel etc..is quiet similar to the experience of Mohammad when he created Islam.

Joseph Smith did not record the ‘official version’ of his ‘First Vision’, as now used by the Mormon Church, until the year 1838, and it wasn’t even published until 1842, some twenty-two years after his supposed experience.

As a non practicing Mormon I am impressed by your description of Mormon beliefs. You are a class act sir.

This was amazing Tim. I'm a Mormon, and you did this without being snarky or condescending. Thank you.

I know you are not a Mormon but I want to commend you for the job you did on this video. You were very respectful of the church and are a great open minded and critical thinker.

There are 2 Martins I love to listen to when exposing cults such as SDA, Mormons, JW, Oneness Pentecostal, ect.Dr.Walter Martin and Tim Martin.They 100% spot on when describing these cults false teachings and their make believe counterfeit gospel.

I disagree with all the commenters who have commended you for a fair presentation on Mormon beliefs. While you may have said things which you probably didn't intentionally mean to be deceptive, your understanding of Mormon beliefs is cursory at best, erroneous at many times, and clearly antagonistic at worst. It is clear that you have spoken with some Mormon people, at least a little bit. That hardly makes you an expert, and I wish you were not so ready to host lectures where you profess to have some insight on these beliefs. You have made several false claims about what you think Mormons believe, and then you openly deride these beliefs, at times with laughter and even participatory laughter from your audience. This is truly a work of Anti-Mormon proselytizing posing as an educational lecture. If anyone is curious about what Mormons really believe, please do not put much stock in what this guy has to say. His primary motive is, first, to ensure that you don't believe anything that Mormons believe. This is not unbiased, and it clearly colors the entire remarks with negative, derisive tones. That correct way to learn about this church is to go to mormon.org and request a Book of Mormon. Yes, missionaries will contact you. That's fine. They will meet with you a few times, give you hours out of their lives, and they will answer all your questions. They will ask you to be baptized and join their church, but why wouldn't they? You can also just say no. Most people do. You will still get the Book of Mormon to read for yourself, and you can get any information directly from someone who actually knows. They're nice people anyway, and might even help you weed your garden or shovel your snow or whatever, just to show how nice they are.

The world is rife with spirits of contention. Since joining the Restored Church the heavens have opened and have experienced inexplicable seta of miracles. This is, a Great and Marvellous Set of Works.

We have an unofficial saying in The Church - every nonmember a missionary. For those who might be searching or who may have questions, do as Jesus said “come and see” for yourself.

I'll stick to believing in God and his son Jesus.

Why do you carry this type of spirit. Even if it was any other culture or religion as a Christian we carry a spirit of love not to criticize or put down

Hey! Guys You have to study by yourselves. I am studying for 47 years and I found many mistakes.

What a beautiful presentation of Gods love and plan for us. This has inspired me to seek out the Mormon missionaries and join their church.

Mr. Martin, I have been a Mormon for over 35 years and this is so far the best presentation I have heard from a non-Mormon lecturer about the Mormon Plan of Salvation. It is not 100% accurate, but I may dare to say it has about a 95% of accuracy. Still it is an excellent presentation in spite of a little bit of bias, which is understandable since you do not agree with Mormon theology. You were most of the time (not always) very respectful of what we believe and think. Your presentation needs a little bit of input from an insider to put some points of Mormon doctrine in real Mormon perspective. Anyways, it was a good job, congratulations on this dissertation!

"For it is my will, that in time, ye should take unto you wives of the Lamanites and Nephites, that their posterity may become white, delightsome and Just, for even now their females are more virtuous than the gentiles." Prophet Joseph Smith, The Joseph Smith Revelations Text and Commentary, p. 374-376

Wow. I am 16 minutes in and have found this man to be respectful and accurate, at least in his analysis of the playing field. Only the most minor of flaws in some things but they probably just boil down to semantics. Alright… I run a podcast called Midnight Mormons and would love to get you on the program to talk! Evangelize away baby! Sounds like it could be a fun conversation :)

Theres cults everywhere..The Mormon cult, the Jahovahs witnes cult, the seventh day Adventist cult and....the Tim Martin cult

Nice to see someone attempting to honestly outline the beliefs of the LDS church. A few minor erroneous statements are to be expected. This is certainly a far cry from the "Mormons are going to hell" accusations I respond to on a frequent basis on RU-vid. Mr. Martin is to be commended.

You see folks I am a follower of Christ (a born again CHRISTIAN) and NOT a follower of men.I am NOT a Paulist (apostle Paul), an Apollonite (Apollos), a Thompsonite (pastor Kevin Thompson), a Ruckmanite (P.Ruckmam) , a Papist (The Pope), a Russellist (C.T.Russell) , a Lutheran (M.Luther) , a Wesleyan (J.Wesley) , an Arminian, an Arian, a Calvinist (Johnny Calvin) ,ect. People who CHOOSE to follow 7th day Adventism, Mormonism, Oneness Pentecostalism, or any other man centered religion/church out there are following men made religious systems and NOT Jehovah God TRUE religion!.Calvinists are followers of Calvin and his teachings and personal interpretations and they believe the Bible as long as it does not contradicts what Johnny Calvin wrote and taught!!!. That is why I am NON DENOMINATIONAl (although my believes aligns more with those of NON Arminian and NON Calvinist Orthodox Christian denominations).I am Christ-centric and I believe and read ONLY the Bible.I am a born again Christian who believe of been saved by Grace through Faith ONLY. I am my own man and I don't allow myself to be influnced by anyone's ideas and theologies (specially when I come to the conclusion that those ideas and theologies don't align with the Gospel of Jesus Christ and that they actually contradicts it). Just give me a KJV Bible or Reina de Valera Bible and I will be fully equipped and prepared to follow Jesus Christ and believe in his Gospel of salvation. No writings of Johnny Calvin, Charles T. Russell, E. G. White, Dr.James White, Joseph Smith, Augustine of Hippo, M.E.Baker, J.Piper, The Pope and John MacArthur for me. Thanks but NO thanks , you can keep the writings /books/ideologies/ theologies from ALL these people for yourself!!!!. Their writings, Biblical interpretations, opinions, philosophical ideas and theologies are THEIR OWN (NOT MINE) and are NOT relevant nor IMPORTANT to my salvation, what Jesus Christ said and what Paul and the rest of the apostles wrote concerning soteriology is what is relevant to my salvation . Their writings (when they contradicts the Holy Word of Jehovah God) is what I consider JUNK "spiritual" food but the Holy Bible KJV has REAL Spiritual FOOD, FREE of any human ADDITIVES and 100% WHOLESOME Spiritual nourishment for our soul!!!. I don't need a college degree or any other book besides the Holy Bible KJV to understand what Jesus Christ said and to study by myself and understand the apostles teachings concerning salvation and the Gospel.I just LOVE the SIMPLICITY of Jesus Christ Gospel. EASY to understand , 100% PERFECT/CLEAR and DIRECT!!!!.

If temple marriage keeps your family together for eternity, doesn’t that mean that your sons don’t get to be gods on their own planets? 😬

This man was completely on point with his video. Everything as I remember growing up but this religion is completely False. The doctrine the prophets are occult related. Wake up, do your research. Knowledge and understanding of the Word of God (The Bible) will set you free. I pray the lord opens your morman eyes to the truth. All Praise and Glory to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and Gods Unconditional Mercy and Grace.

"God is spirit" The Bible also says that He is a door, a loaf of bread, the truth, a fountain of water, a vine, a narrow path. After His resurrection, Christ made a point that he had a body of flesh and bones, not a spirit. Luke 24 [39] Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a *spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have* Christ said "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" If Christ and the Father are ONE, the Bible tells us that they have a body of flesh and bones, that God truly created man in the Image of God. Stephen saw Christ standing on the right hand of God. You can deny it, but the Bible teaches it, and we believe it.

I happened onto your site while researching something else on the internet. As I watched I noticed that technically the information you gave is mostly correct and I enjoyed your style of speech. I personally do not have a great talent of talking in front of others.You are correct that members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints feel worship of God the Father and his son Jesus Christ is a spiritual thing. We totally believe in the power of the Holy Spirit/Ghost and in the personal inspirations we receive. Just ask one of us and we would be glad to share experiences of how the Holy Spirit affected our lives.Yes, the prophet of our church also has the power of the Holy spirit to receive inspiration or revelations not only for himself but also for the whole church. This does NOT mean that there is any change in the gospel of Jesus Christ. Each time the Lord has called a prophet to lead the people during different eras of time. We believe the gospel has been the same from the time of Adam throughout the history of mankind. The gospel doesn't change; people change. People stopped worshipping and honoring God and so He sent messenger (prophets) to call them to repentance. The times of Abraham were different than the times of Adam, the times of Noah were different than the times of Abraham, the times of Moses were different than the times of Noah, and so on throughout history. Our times are different than any of the previous periods of time.We are taught to prayerfully read and study the scriptures; this includes the Old and New Testaments of the Bible. This is where the gospel of Jesus Christ can be learned, along with the history of God's people. With their history we learn what they did right and the mistakes they made. We learn how God blesses those that live righteously and how God turns from those who weren't righteous and allowed them to fail. History helps us to make better choices in how we choose to live our lives. All scripture is inspired by God for the benefit of the people.A quote by one of our prophets, President John Taylor said, "Adam's revelation did not instruct Noah to build his ark; nor did Noah's revelation tell Lot to forsake Sodom; nor did either of these speak of the departure of the children of Israel from Egypt. These all had revelations for themselves and so had Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Jesus, Peter, Paul, John and Joseph. And so must we."A prophet, both those of ancient times and our living prophets were given to lead God's church. We believe that we are headed to the second coming of Christ (whether it be in a year, ten years, one hundred years we do not claim to know). We do claim that our living prophet gets his inspiration form God to lead this church to that time coming. Many members, including some close to him, thought President Hinkley was a little crazy for his plan to have 100 temples working or in progress by the year 2000 but I believe the last count was now over 150 to date. President Hinkley wasn't called as a prophet to change the gospel of Jesus Christ (nor were any of the other prophets called by God). He was called to lead the people of Christ's church to doing the Lord's work here on earth. This is true of each of the prophets of ancient times AND in our own time. This is the reason for the comment by President Benson that you mentioned in your video. The gospel of Jesus Christ will always be the same yesterday, today and forever. It will never change. But our times are different that those in the past and we need leadership and guidance from God just as much, if not more, in these times. How grateful I am for a prophet today and know that God will never allow him to lead us contrary to the will of the Father and our Savior, Jesus Christ. How grateful I am for the personal inspiration of the Holy Spirit in my life to help me live a life worthy to return to God the Father.I admire the time you took to research the facts for this video and you were entertaining to listen to. I just felt you might want to know and understand our take on the prophet of God in these times and why his words are so important to not only church members but should be important to all man.

Now that I have finished watching the entire video, I wonder -- and I have before wondered this as well -- what a sincere and honest discussion would be between the people who were presented this information. Were they impressed spiritually by the "added" revelation that the Saints claim to have of these things? Did they FEEL a familiarity to this Plan? Do they feel, torn between, or any degree of conflict between these things and the source of doctrines that they currently subscribe to? What questions arose in their minds and hearts, and how did they feel about the "answers" that were offered in response, from a "Biblical Christianity" doctrinal approach? Can they honestly feel, after being presented the doctrines of the Saints, that the doctrines taught by "Biblical Christianity" are complete as the system in place claims? This follow up could be very revealing, I think.

Tim , you seem to burn all the small denominations ,so called Sects. How about the Roman Catholic Church ? Should you say that ,they are not Christian ?

You’re a great teacher. Thank you for your videos!

Can you tell where exactly you found the answers for those two questions, one about becoming gods, and the second about owning your own planet? I'm at the website but can't find it. Thank you.

Celestial means heavenly, hence only the celestial kingdom can literally be called heaven

Speaking of the Priesthood - Who’s Priesthood is it? I seem to recall from Sunday school lessons in my youth that not everyone had the right to be ordained to the priesthood as mentioned in the Old Testament. How many sons of Father Jacob (Israel) were there? And how many of his sons received the Priesthood? I’ll wait for an answer…

1:05:00 Note that "telestial" is a non-existing word. Celestial (from Latin caelum=heaven), terrestrial (from Latin terra=earth), telestial (hogwash word, probably a mixture of both previous words).

Nice 1 Tim. Say how can i find a true church to join?

Beautiful truth of plan salvation we all get a chance at the celestial kingdom

Between 27:00-37:45 and you have built a whole argument that the church is whitewashing the issue of men of African descent getting the Priesthood. You state explicitly at 29:12 that "they changed the doctrine for the African men. Now they get the Priesthood." The problem is that you have built your premise based on mis-quotations from Brigham Young. At 30:10 - Brigham Young, "The Lord told Cain that he should not receive the blessings of the Priesthood nor his seed, until the redemption of the Earth..." Here is the complete quotation: "The Lord told Cain that he should not receive the blessings of the Priesthood nor his seed, until the last of the posterity of Abel had received the Priesthood, until the redemption of the Earth..." When you cut out "[until the last of the posterity of Abel had received the Priesthood]", you gloss over the complete teaching, that Brigham Young always taught that someday men of African descent WOULD receive the blessings of the Priesthood. They would just have to wait until the fulfillment of the curse, when all of the posterity of Abel would receive the Priesthood. Again you cut short a quote from Brigham Young at 30:35 - "...a man who has the African blood in him cannot hold one jot nor tittle of the Priesthood. Why? Because they are the true eternal principles the Lord Almighty has ordained." Later in that very same paragraph, he continues "not one particle of power can that posterity of Cain have, until the time comes the [Lord] says He will have it taken away. That time will come, when they will have the privilege of all we have the privilege of, and more." He also says, in the same lecture, "Then Cain's seed will be had in remembrance and the time come when that curse should be wiped off." Brigham Young taught this consistently and repeatedly over the years. Here's another quote from October 9, 1959: "How long is that race to endure the dreadful curse that is upon them? That curse will remain upon them, and they never can hold the Priesthood or share in it until all the other descendants of Adam have received the promises and enjoyed the blessings of the Priesthood and the keys thereof. Until the last ones of the residue of Adam's children are brought up to that favourable position, the children of Cain cannot receive the first ordinances of the Priesthood." And here is one from August 19, 1866: "Why are so many of the inhabitants of the earth cursed with a sin of blackness? It comes in consequence of their fathers rejecting the power of the Holy Priesthood, and the law of God. They will go down to death. And when all the rest of the children have received their blessings in the Holy Priesthood, then that curse will be removed from the seed of Cain, and they will then come up and possess the priesthood, and receive all the blessings which we now are entitled to." Each time this is mentioned, is it taught with the understanding that the blessings of the Priesthood will be forthcoming in the fulness of times, even to the seed of Cain, once the Priesthood is available to all men, "the last ones of the residue of Adam's children", as Brigham Young taught. Even to imply that the church had to "whitewash" history, or doctrine, is to willfully misrepresent the words of the very man you are quoting as a source. The correct and accurate doctrine that represents the beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is found in Doctrine and Covenants Official Declaration 2: "a revelation had been received by President Spencer W. Kimball extending priesthood and temple blessings to all worthy male members of the Church." We have seen a fulfillment of Brigham Young's words, "the time comes the [Lord] says He will have it taken away", as the Gospel has been spread to the corners of the Earth, and all men can now share in the blessings of the Priesthood.

Mr Martin, I love you! I have watched a few of your videos now and they are simply a pleasure to watch. The information you give (both factual and experiential) is _extremely_ helpful to me in the ministries our Lord has called me to (I'm involved in a mixture of teaching, evangelism and apologetics). I can't thank you enough for these videos and will keep an eye on this channel for more. I really like your spirit, your sense of humor, and your style of presentation, and the new graphics are truly excellent. Our only difference of opinion is Ravi Zacharias, whom you obviously think highly of. With respect, I do not see Christ in that man at all, and I have heard things about him which confirm what I perceived. I was very troubled with what I saw. The things he said may have been true, but what about the Holy Spirit of God in him!? Like you, I place very high importance on correct doctrine, and seek to defend these truths about the faith, though I would say that the only way someone can really come into the truth is by the Gospel of Christ. All the correct doctrine in the world cannot bring a person into the Kingdom, because salvation is a work effected in the heart of a sinner who is brought to repent of their ways and call out for mercy through Jesus. Thus such a person is transformed, crucified to the flesh and born of the Holy Spirit-the very same Spirit of God who wrote the Bible, and thus that person's doctrine will naturally come into line with the Truth of Scripture as a _result_ of the spiritual change, because that person truly belongs to God. When I was born again, I instantly found myself agreeing with Scripture and understanding it a whole lot better. No longer tossed to and fro by every human teaching! :)

Looking for the video of Mormans creation. So great to share

In regard to the authority of the prophet, it depends on who publishes it. If it is published by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, then it becomes "binding" as you said. If it is published any other way, it is their opinion. At least that is how I understand it to be.

I am a Mormon and Joseph Smith was actually 14 years old in 1820 when he had his first vision of GOD and JESUS.

Really good summation of the topic.

@ 1:02:50 B Hinn, K Copeland, and J Duplantis have this prophet beat, we're ALREADY gods! Take that Mormons!

44:00 1. Cor 11:4 Sorry, but it's 2. Cor 11:4.

Joseph Smith and guys likel L. Ron Hubbard were true manipulators of the truth!

There are so many Martin's mentioned on here. Do you have room for a Martin who knows the The Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints both inside and out and who is believing member of that faith? That would be me. I love this Christian faith, and it is a Christian faith by the way. It has been a terrific faith to be a part of, and to worship with. We love the Lord. Jesus is our Redeemer, and we need His grace as much as anyone. But yes, this faith teaches the disciple of Christ how to live a more Christlike life, and I do appreciate that.

It doesn’t say in any scripture that we are born on a planet called kolob it is another name for a star “13 And he said unto me: This is Shinehah, which is the sun. And he said unto me: kolob, which is star. And he said unto me: Olea, which is the moon. And he said unto me: Kokaubeam, which signifies stars, or all the great lights, which were in the firmament of heaven.” They are billions of stars out there as well as planets, we don’t call the moon olea.. you clearly don’t understand the scripture

I thought this was about The LDS Plan of Salvation. This was just a veiled attack.

Good explanation of the plan.

Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints go to the direct source Himself- the Lord with faith and sincere real intent in their heart to know if the Book of Mormon and Bible are the word of the Lord. Millions if not billions by now across the globe share the same loving warm conviction of The fullness of the gospel. The love remains daily. Each member receives their own INDIVIDUAL witness. ChurchofJesusChrist.org I testify with every part of my heart and being that Jesus is the Christ and He and the Lord Live. ComeUntoChrist.org

First, how did Joseph Smith know to restore the doctrines and ordinances from the Bible, such as the doctrine of the premortal existence, the true nature of God, the gospel being preached to the dead, baptism for the dead, and many others when such doctrines and ordinances were not being taught by other contemporary churches of his time? Why was Joseph Smith the only one to discover them and restore them? Even if he is considered a theological genius, were there no other such geniuses in the 1,800 years following the Savior’s ministry who could do likewise? Second, if this Church is not Christ’s Church, then why does this Church have the same fruits as Christ’s original Church, namely, miracles and gifts of the Spirit, current revelation from apostles and prophets, angels and visions, a healthy people, a moral people, a missionary-minded people, and a people who are intensely family centered? Did not the Savior give the test for truth?-“By their fruits ye shall know them” (Matthew 7:20). Certainly, many more questions on cross-examination could be asked.

If there skin was black then turned white then wouldn’t the Indians still be white?

very good discursion! very explained!!

1. The Saints do not *"claim to be Christians, the same as us."* The Plan of Salvation is represented differently between Christians and Saints. One source is based on truths. The other source is based on the learning of men mingled with truths, and often misses the mark entirely. 2. James 1:5 does not apply to anybody. James wrote the letter, as read in his opening verse, to the "twelve tribes of Israel who are scattered abroad." He did not write this letter to the Gentile nations, nor to the heathen, but to the covenant people of God. Too often Biblical Christians fraudulently assume to be recipients of the teachings of the Saints, without entering into the esoteric membership of the Saints through covenants. While it is entirely possible for a person to be drawn to the writings of the Saints, and apply the teachings in their own lives, since they have not entered into a covenant relationship with the Father through the Order of the Son (his priesthood authority), there is no promise that the Father will bless them according to the promises attached to those things as they exist among the Saints. In the case of Joseph Smith, were it not that he had been fore-ordained before the foundation of the world to be the first prophet in the Dispensation of the Fulness of Times, he more than likely would have not have had the experience he did. The Restoration is the stone cut out of the mountain without hands, meaning in God's own work and process did these things come to pass, regardless of the scripture Smith had read. 3. Authority. *"Its not JUST the standard works that they are looking to."* No volume of scripture possess "authority" to administer the Church. This is a "Biblical Christian" concept, since the Bible is the only thing that the Biblical Christians possess to determine the doctrines. The Saints do not use ANY scripture to establish authority. Scriptures are used to document the dealings of God to his Saints. A record of the gospel is not the gospel itself. 4. A comparison between what the modern prophet "says" and what scripture "says" is offered by the speaker suggesting that "if" there were ever a discrepancy between the two, that the words of modern prophet would take precedence. This is true in the context that the scriptures are NOT for private interpretation but are correct when interpreted by the prophets of God and then that understanding is passed on to the Saints. The discrepancy, then, is not between the modern prophet and the scriptures, but rather between the private interpretation of scripture and the prophet's interpretation. The presenter then suggests that "a lot of what we're going to be going over here is based on what the modern prophets say and not what is written in the scriptures." This is false. Again, it is not the living prophets against the scriptures (including previous prophets), but rather the living prophets interpretation of the scriptures against private interpretation of the scriptures (or previous prophets). A reasonable example could be thus: Surely in Abraham's day, it was widely known that murder was against the will of God. Yet God commanded Abraham to offer his son as a sacrifice. Under such a circumstance, the Lord's will manifested through his servant and prophet Abraham, took precedence over the widely accepted concept to not murder. Abraham, conflicted as he was at the command of God, was duty bound to obey God, not from previous revelations from previous prophets but because of the command of the living God. Thus, the prophet will never lead the church astray, because the prophet is the ordained source of authority and the interpretation of previous revelations will always be superior by that prophet than by any unauthorized source of private interpretation of scripture or private interpretation of the will of God. So, here we see a little deception and spin starting to be built by this presenter. 5. *"We were born in this place as spirit children to God."* The Father CREATED the spirits of all things that exist before they were formed physically. There is not revelation that says the spirits of all things, before they were formed physically by the Son, were 'born.' 6. *"Pre-Existence or First Estate"* There is no such thing as a pre-existence. Nothing exists before it begins existing... The First Estate refers to the status of the spirits of Heavenly Father's spirit children prior to coming to mortality. Part of this status involved the War in Heaven, when Lucifer, who once was a son of God comparable to Jehovah, presented a plan to execute the Plan of the Father. Lucifer's plan was rejected, which caused a war in heaven between the followers of Lucifer and the followers of Jehovah, and a "third part" of the heavens were cast out of heaven, losing their "First Estate." 7. *Jesus and Lucifer* Prior to falling from Heaven, all the spirit creation of the Father were bound Eternally to Him. In this sense, all of the creation of the Father can be characterized as brothers and sisters of the same Eternal family. However, after Lucifer and the third part of the heavens that followed him were removed from the heavens, those spirits lost all binding and Eternal status as belonging to the family of the Father. Without the preservation of this binding status, neither Lucifer nor those who are with him are part of the family of God, and because of the conceptual nature of Eternity, it is important to understand that Lucifer who became Satan, NEVER belonged to the Eternal status of the Father. These souls lost their first estate, and for the sake of mortal man, limited to a linear understanding of things, the simplest way to describe what happened in the Eternities is to paint the picture that Lucifer once part of the family of the Father. 8. *"One-third"* Not one-third, but "a third part," meaning there were three parts in the war in Heaven, and of the three parts, which were not necessarily of equal sizes, one of those parts was removed from heaven. 9. *"The American Indians are Jewish"* The Nephite, Lamanite, and Mulekite nations in the Book of Mormon records were of the House of Israel, specifically of the House of Joseph, who is represented in the House of Israel by his sons, Ephraim and Manasseh. While the Jews of the House of Judah were a large group of the House of Israel, it is wrong to say the seed of Joseph through his sons Ephraim and Manasseh, who the Book of Mormon nations were, are Jewish. Often because of the size of the House of Judah, the entire House of Israel were called "the Jews," but they all were not Jewish! 10. *"We are not here for our purpose. We are here for his purpose."* The work and glory of God is to bring to pass the immortality and Eternal Life of man. The "work" of God is to bring to pass the immortality of man. The "Glory" of God is to bring to pass the Eternal Life of man. How do we bring glory to God? By becoming like him, as the Son's Plan so directs us to become, in fulfillment to the Plan of the Father. 11. *"If Adam didn't do what he did, you would be born here..."* Incorrect. If Adam didn't do what he did, mankind would not exist on Earth, and Adam and Eve would have remained in the Garden of Eden until they partook of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge. It is speculation unfounded to assume that had Adam and Eve not partook of the fruit that mankind would exist. Adam and Eve knew not that they were naked, and all things were in a state of paradise and Eternal existence, lacking the power to procreate until mortality commenced. Mortality could not commence until the fruit was partaken. 12. *"Since Adam sinned..."* Adam did not sin. He transgressed against the Father's command. "Sin" cannot happen without accountability. Accountability cannot be without opposition. Opposition cannot be without the existence of good and evil. Adam and Eve did not "know" opposition, good and evil, until AFTER they partook of the fruit. They did not have power to sin until after they received the knowledge of good and evil. They could transgress but they could not sin. Little children, not knowing the law, might transgress the law but are not accountable to the law by virtue of their innocence and lack of accountability. Adam and Eve lacked accountability to their transgressions until AFTER they partook of the Tree of Knowledge. 13. *"Intimate relationship with Mary?"* What kind of "intimate relationship" is committed by planting the seed of the God Almighty into a mortal, virgin woman? This is ridiculous. How do the Biblical Christians explain the conception of Mary? Magic? Witchcraft? Just how was it accomplished? More to come if I get any replies with any reasonable substance...

Mormonism, Its not a lie if you believe it...

Moroni is a fallen angel and Joseph Smith did see Moroni but Moroni is a a fallen angel and fell for his lies because he did not test the spirits as the bible says if you think you have heard from God test the spirits Which Joseph Smith did not do and was deceived documentation 1John4:1.

This is worse than Ellen g. White.

Great job.

my mother is Indonesian, my father is dutch. therefore I am half of both. am I right or am I right? I am light brown

Jesus never talks about being god in the bible he says he’s the son of god and son of man.. back then he wasn’t known as god the father either the idea devolved over time.. he is god but so is the Holy Ghost the three are one god but are separate beings

min 17 CORRCTION >using food as a "hook" for converts You need to check your facts. Food is given in disaster areas, both Mormon and nonMormon, but it is temporary. No one is expected to go to church, etc, just that it is only a limited supply for the entire disaster area. There IS a separate welfare program for members but usually a short term basis to help you to find employment, etc, not a welfare program. We refuse to baptize anyone who is just in it for food.

Following my previous comment about the divine nature of Christ, I would like to address another misrepresentation from the video: that we don't believe in the same Jesus as the bible. These statements from the video are not representative of the doctrines of this church: 43:55 - Do they have the same Jesus that we have? No. 44:11 - Jesus is not God, in the sense that the Bible talks about him being God. This is the most egregious slander, and for years this lie has been the greatest source of contention towards The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints from those whom we consider our fellow Christians. If there were one thing, and one thing only, that you could erase from your lectures, it should, and must be, this one. I have included verses from Old Testament, New Testament, Book of Mormon, and Doctrine & Covenants (written by Joseph Smith), to demonstrate our belief in the divine Jesus Christ, and how it is harmonious with biblical teachings, as well as testimony from our living prophets and apostles. Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you. Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 2 Nephi 25:26 And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins. Alma 11:39-40 And Amulek said unto him: Yea, he is the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth, and all things which in them are; he is the beginning and the end, the first and the last; And he shall come into the world to redeem his people; and he shall take upon him the transgressions of those who believe on his name; and these are they that shall have eternal life, and salvation cometh to none else. D&C 109:68 O Lord, remember thy servant, Joseph Smith, Jun., and all his afflictions and persecutions-how he has covenanted with Jehovah, and vowed to thee, O Mighty God of Jacob-and the commandments which thou hast given unto him, and that he hath sincerely striven to do thy will. From "The Living Christ: THE TESTIMONY OF THE APOSTLES" - "We bear testimony, as His duly ordained Apostles-that Jesus is the Living Christ, the immortal Son of God. He is the great King Immanuel, who stands today on the right hand of His Father. He is the light, the life, and the hope of the world. His way is the path that leads to happiness in this life and eternal life in the world to come. God be thanked for the matchless gift of His divine Son."

you wrote: *"However, it is not Heaven in the presence of God."* (referring to the Telestial Glory of Heaven) == The presence of Jesus Christ is the presence of God. Those who are capable of enduring the glory of the Terrestrial kingdom will be privileged to enjoy the visitation of Jesus Christ, who is God. They will also be privileged to enjoy the visitation of the Holy Ghost, who is God. Those who are capable of enduring the glory of the Telestial Kingom will be privileged to enjoy the visitation of the Holy Ghost, who is God. So to suggest that the Celestial glory is the only place in heaven where the visitation of God is experienced is misleading. Only those who are capable of enduring Celestial glory will be capable of enduring the glory of the Father. Notice how this is worded, that "those who are capable of enduring" will be able to experience "God" in any part of the kingdom of heaven? The glories of heaven are experienced according to the capacities of men to be able to endure it, not a process of condemnation but a process of perfect evaluation of the capacity of the patron. Outer darkness signifies a complete banishment from the Kingdom of Heaven, such as is experienced by Satan and those who were defeated in the War in Heaven and are no longer capable to endure, if they ever did, any glory of heaven because of their infinite rejection of God. Because of the eternal nature of outer darkness, I don't believe we can fully comprehend the limitations and reaches of what this means and what it would take for a soul that kept his first estate, came to Earth and received a physical body, experienced a resurrection with that body, likely would not have ever accepted Jesus' atonement in the flesh or the spirit. I would think that this type of soul would have initially joined with Lucifer in the War in Heaven, and would have been cast out in the Eternities with them all, prior to any mortal probation. I can't see how anything done in mortality would cause a soul to be cast out from the heavens in any glory. Because of this, I think that speculation on outer darkness is totally pointless and even a bit superstitious in line with Biblical Christianity's theories of "heaven" and "hell."

No that’s not true about skin colour

Hi Joseph

Thank you for being so receptive regarding my previous comments. I would like to take another moment and address one of the more nuanced, though arguably more important errors from the commentary video. In summary, the precise teaching is this and no more: that Mary was carried away in the Spirit, conceived by the power of the Holy Ghost, and begat the Son of God. There is a blatantly false statement at 45:07 - "this is talking about His physical body here on Earth. Where did it come about? It came about by an intimate relationship between Heavenly Father and Mary." Interestingly, you almost acknowledge the mistake, because you also said at 46:47 - "Whenever I've been in a conversation and it comes up, and we have to deal with it, almost all the time this is new to Mormons. They reject it...it's vile to them." We reject this notion, and believe it vile, because Mormons believe in the virgin birth, as taught in the bible, modern scripture, and also the words of our modern prophets. I get the sense that you believe to have uncovered some grand, revelatory, embarrassing doctrine. And if only all Mormons could come to know the true teachings of our church, we would immediately see the light, rebel, and leave the church and its false teachings. In reality, though, this does not represent our doctrine. Here are some examples from the Old Testament, New Testament, and the Book of Mormon that teach what we believe: Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Matthew 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. Alma 7:10 And behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers, she being a virgin, a precious and chosen vessel, who shall be overshadowed and conceive by the power of the Holy Ghost, and bring forth a son, yea, even the Son of God. 1 Nephi 11:18-19 Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of the Son of God, after the manner of the flesh. And it came to pass that I beheld that she was carried away in the Spirit; And finally, probably the most concise denouncement of this ugly lie, from Bruce R. McConkie's Mormon Doctrine: "Modernistic teachings denying the virgin birth are utterly and completely apostate and false." The passages cited from "The Life and Teachings of Jesus and his Apostles" (a quote from James Talmage's Jesus the Christ) and "Family Home Evening" do not teach that there was an intimate relationship between Heavenly Father and Mary. These passages have a purpose, and what they are teaching is the heredity of nature that Christ enjoyed. As son of a mortal mother, he had the weakness of the flesh and could die. As son of an immortal Father he had the power to overcome death. The instruction goes on at length to teach the concept that Christ's divine nature allowed him to suffer infinite suffering and bear the weight of the sins of the world. His mortal nature then permitted his body to die. His divine nature, again, gave him power over death to resurrect on the third day. Since so much of this instruction focuses on Christ's divine nature, I cannot believe that the intent is to contradict the Bible by teaching that Mary had relations with Heavenly Father. Any reading that leaves a person with that false conclusion is not done in humility, and should be corrected through earnest scripture study, fasting, and prayer.

Joseph Smith: The greatest con-man of all time!

Please don't infer that we believe black people are less righteous in the premortal life or that they cannot make it into spirit paradise.

Bro i another study u illustrate a triangle with God in the center A minister came to the churchand tried to do that ilustration and the pastor stop no dont even teach that causr "WE " didn't believe im that lol lol lol

we believe what the prophet says is scripter

Noseph Smith

the sex thing is a lie

Its easier than all that just tithe

Tim, It's been three weeks for you to check out your facts. Now what?

We do not convince all of what you disscus its only your personal opinion no biblical truth even J smith can not prove that his statements are true

mr. bean

False. standard works always superced a prophet

the sex thing is a lie