Im laughing like a mad man at hosea jumping off to his death 😂 But my god i could imagine the pain and sheer anger youd feel after hours upon hours of testing 😅
Guilty because If it's innocent here there's no telling in what other ways in might be used later on and if them shooting dynamite that was supifficly placed there so they were hurt then you intended harm, so at bear minimum it should count as a knock out or put in a separate category
The only way to know is doing the same experiment in free roaming, cause the Honor sistem doesn't alway work in the mission caus e you need to kill people. Try to do the same thing with wpople and see if the Honor sistem work for both case or just when you activate the dynamite
@@rumblezerofive I think you missed the point, everything can be used as a weapon but it's the purpose of the item which makes you see it as a weapon or not. I could crush someone's head with an iron and intentionally burn someone alive over a campfire, but still those items arent intended to be used that way, they just create hazard of someone using them this way. With the logic your going every single tool is a weapon.
New head canon: If Hosea survived that explosion with nothing more than light injuries, then surely the enemies who are standing several paces farther away ought to have survived as well. Plus, no kill screen flash happened. Those men aren't dead. They're just lying down because of embarrassment over the fact that they watched you place two sticks of dynamite in front of them, and they shot them. Therefore, Arthur is innocent.
On the contrary I think it just means Hosea is built different and deserves bonus points for durability if we ever get a sequel to the tier list video.
@@sir.gulllen also in the "lore" of this. The raiders are so desperate to kill Arthur that they completely ignore the hazard that is RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM.
@@eyezayar one reason Kratos walking into fire was fine is because he's escaped various hell's so much he has a road map. It barely counts even if you did shove him in. The same may apply here, you said yourself this was unusual behaviour for drunkards, were they ever human to begin with? Were they even still alive, or just puppets for something else?
@@eyezayarI suggest that you practice your parkour skills in Saint Denis, because it will definitely be a helpful ability in the future, I’ve spent hours trying to achieve very stupid goals like getting to the tops of certain buildings, seeing how high i can get, and seeing if I can climb every to the top of every building section. And because of my hours of experience doing stupid shit, I was able to see that path with the railway almost immediately, I seriously consider you try it
I think that placing the TNT presents a dilemma to the shooters. They could A) turn and run or B) continue to shoot and risk hurting themselves. By their choice of option B they have essentially consented to un-aliving themselves, therefore not making W.J. responsible. A choice was presented, and they chose poorly. There was no clear “intent” in placing the TNT and it can’t be proven your intended goal was for them to be un-alived. I say the challenge is still valid
I love how during every episode, there's a point where it seems like the challenge is almost done for and you reach rock bottom. Then, just by sheer luck (or incredible skill), you find a way to bypass scripted killings, animations etc. Its one of my favourite parts in this series.
Eyezayar, in risk of sounding like a broken record, I want to just say that this series means a ton to me; its the best series on youtube hands down in my opinion. So much has happened in my life the past few years but this series always remains a comfortable place that I can return to when times are tough. Thanks for sticking with it man.
Means a lot my friend, thank you. Happy to hear this series can still bring some enjoyment in that way. Hope you've been well and thank you for sticking around as long as you have!
@@eyezayarHey so I decided to give it a try myself on this mission and was originally gonna do the whole game without kills but decided instead to just load a save replay the Mission you were on and try to do the next section which was the wagon Now I didn't try too many times without trying this and I'm not sure if it will work for you because I did accidentally kill one guys horse however I think a strategy that worked for me is Shoot them in the hands around there weapons with weak weapons to keep them temporarily at bay it somehow kept Hosea alive and didn't kill them Also for some reason they also killed themselves when they got too close I'm not sure why though but the wagon kept catching fire for a sec which kept killing the enemies I think they were either shooting out the lantern on the wagon or throwing molotovs or something regardless though If all else fails try shooting them in the hands and weapons with weak weapons to stun them for a sec Anyways just thought this might be useful
eyezayer found a strat in arthur becomes and that was to wave his guns at them without firing once. Davey the double-barreled shotgun@@gabrielchastain6091
Not to muddy the water too much, but maybe consider adding a third category of "ambiguous" or "gray area" kills or something? Also, I absolutely love and adore this series, and I'm so glad to see it back. And your cinematics and creative bits in these videos are truly really cool and fun to watch.
I think when it comes down to a final count, there may be a place for some third category where less conventional strats were used. And thanks a lot man, that means a lot to hear. New one soon!
Eyezayar I cannot express just how much this series means to me, I have been watching it since day 1 and have gone through so much since then. And this is unironically the best video game series on the entire internet.
Innocent! Oh and by the way I am so glad to see this series return. It has got to be super frustrating to put these together with all of the trial and error required, but this is one of my favorite RDR2 series' of all time. Keep it up!
Innocent (also the production value of this series and the amount of time and effort you put into it is incredible! This is by far the best series on RU-vid!)
This is an interesting moral quandary I'd have to go with innocent based on a few factors A) they instigated the fight and introduced firearms with the intent to kill accepting the responsibility that someone may have a firearm and shoot at them back. B) as a deterrent you placed the dynamite to get them to stop shooting and hid behind the table for cover. C) the game not counting them as your kills also makes this easier coupled with the fact you didn't force them to shoot they did it themselves.
Based on hownthe game reacts and how pistol whipping only knocks someone out and the fact Hosea is fine just a few feet away, I'd argue that those men are knocked out from the explosion and not dead.
There are times when I worry you're getting burned out on these videos, and then I'm always relieved to see that you're still going on. I hope you manage to see this through to the end, no matter how long it takes.
It's always a pleasure to watch this series continue! The camera angles, shots and the rewritten storyline are gold. As for the verdict, W.J. is innocent. Dynamite can serve as a tool too, like blowing up rocks to allow safe passage.
As far as I’m concerned, if they watch you setting up the dynamite, can see it’s there the whole time and still shoot it, it’s on them. Plus, Alfred Nobel invented dynamite to help with building and mining, therefore I’d say it’s a tool rather than a weapon
What if it was accidental? It's like saying that if someone kidnapped me and forced me to walk across a narrow wooden beam across two buildings, then it's my fault if I die since I can see the drop beneath me and I'm the one that slipped, not the kidnapper. The original purpose of the knife was to assist in cutting and carving meat, wood, and other materials, but that doesn't mean it isn't a weapon. The same thing applies for dynamite. Just because it was invented for practical use doesn't excuse any violent or malicious actions performed with said object.
@@blipblapblop2447 Oh no I commented twice on the same video 😱😱😱😱😱😱 how shall I ever repay my sins? I'm not pressed and I'm not trying to offend anyone, I'm just presenting possible arguments for the other side.
Please don't give up on this challenge no matter how difficult it is, this series is amazing and hilarious, also I absolutely love all the side characters you created, three gun Gary, the cliff goblins, PTSD Micah, the bulletrpoof knife guy, and frank are all pretty awesome and each has their own backstoty that fleshes them out
I'd have to rule innocent for this one. The dynamite was put there in clear vision of the enemies, and they chose to continue shooting at it. If you continue to do something that is dangerous, despite being fully aware that it could end in your death, then that is the fault of no-one but yourself.
My verdict is the dynamite usage is a valid pacifist strategy (TLDR at the end). It essentially comes down to the fact that while Arthur is choosing to create a *potential* hazard, the enemies are the ones choosing to make it an *active* hazard. It’s not like he sneakily laid mines under them, he very visibly placed the dynamite on the table and then did nothing. The enemies absolutely saw the dynamite, and it was their decision to prioritize satisfying their bloodlust over their own safety. Yes, your head-canon is that all of the enemies are absurdly drunk (which isn’t necessarily the case), but at a certain point being under the influence doesn’t absolve you of responsibility for your actions. If you’re sober enough to competently take part in an organized gun fight, you’re sober enough to recognize that shooting at a target right next to a stick of dynamite is a significant health risk. There’s always the potential that they could avoid hitting it and take out Arthur anyway, and if they think that’s worth the risk, that’s no one’s judgment call but their own. While you were right in saying Arthur technically has more responsibility in creating the hazard here than when it’s a “natural” hazard like a fire or cliff or train, it’s still the enemies’ choice to put themselves in danger and prioritize killing Arthur over their own safety. It’s not the same as him pushing them off a cliff and saying “well I didn’t kill them, the ground did!” The enemies have every opportunity to decide not to follow you along the cliff face or run in front of the very obvious train, but if they are so invested in killing Arthur that they make the choice to risk their lives, and that risk ends poorly, it was still ultimately their choice to not accept the chance to see sense and just walk away. In this sense, placing the dynamite is no more blame on Arthur than fighting around an open flame. Similar to the final battle between Obiwan and Anakin, if Arthur sets up and points out / makes obvious any *deterrent* defenses that only have the potential to hurt the attackers if they continue to attack anyway, or puts himself in a position that creates obvious risk for the attacker (“Its over, I have the high ground!”), and the enemies are either so hateful or so arrogant that they disregard their own safety and try anyway (“You underestimate my power!”), then Arthur can’t be held responsible for the consequences of their actions. Honestly I’d say defensive tactics like this are *more* pacifist than the traditional “lasso them to the ground so they can be killed by an ally”, because in that case you’re just helping someone else kill them (even if it is in self defense), whereas in this category of “kills” you’re using tools or the environment purely defensively, and the enemies are making the decision to get themselves killed rather than accept Arthur’s pleas for peace and walk away. And fun fact addressing your argument that the dynamite is explicitly a weapon where the other things weren’t: Alfred Nobel invented dynamite in 1867 to be used specifically for mining (to replace more unstable/dangerous explosives). Basically the whole world immediately went “fuck that” and bought it all to use in warfare instead; newspapers even began calling Nobel “The Merchant of Death”. He was so horrified that his invention became automatically used for violence that he donated his entire life fortune to create the Nobel Peace Prize Foundation, to recognize those who dedicated their lives to making the world a more enlightened, safe, and united place. So it really comes full circle back to the story of our Goodest Boah lol *TLDR:* The dynamite kills (and other “environmental kills” in that category) are totally valid and should be considered pacifist, because no matter how the hazards are created, as long as they are defensive in nature and obvious enough to be understood by the enemies, it’s their decision, not Arthur’s, to risk (and potentially lose) their lives for a chance at victory, just as in any other form of combat.
Fair enough. I guess I just have a hard time buying that the enemies consciously, in their drunken state, took the risk of firing near dynamite. But I can see your point. So, if it was done by regular Arthur, I would consider him innocent. But given Eyezayar's headcanon, as much as it breaks my heart, I can't pass the same judgement for W. J. Placing defenses is within the Golden Guidelines. However, it must be demonstrated that W. J.'s foes are fully aware and consicious of said defenses, and the risk that they're taking when walking into them, which cannot be demonstrated here.
What if I set up a trap room and deliberately run pursuers through it? I could do this to cops who have every right to be chasing me and it's clearly murder. Saying 'they should have seen the threat to themselves and acted differently' would absolve all 'trap' kills. The moral corruption in this is very real even if you can get off the charges in court. In himself Arthur would know why the dynamite was put there and why the enemies died. The campfire is different because he could just have been camping and failed to prevent the man falling into the fire.
@@thomaskilroy3199 yes but see if you set up a trap that is only visible from the other side of the doorway that would automatically put you in cuffs, W.J. merely placed down the Dynamite in full view (and intended to pick it up later). Fully conscious men who saw the potential hazard continued to fire their guns. My client is not guilty on the basis that the assailants had plenty of opportunities to stop shooting and put their safety above their bloodlust.
i think the dynamite strat should count as half a kill. like you said, you dont shoot them with a gun, or throw the dynamite, but they would'nt have died if you didnt place it there. i see it as both you ad the npc's are responsible, so the point is split also, your editing seems to have improved by a lot, you can really tell time and effort has been put into this video and its editing. very good job :)
Two people were killed by shooting the dynamite that they WATCHED HIM SLOWLY PLACE. ITS THEIR OWN DUMB ASS FAULT FOR SHOOTING IT. No kills. Valid strat.
@@eggchomp It's hard to say. The men never had the intention to hit the dynamite and blow themselves up, but Arthur did. The men's negligence in this scenario could be excused because they were drunk and probably have disorienting tinnitus from loud gunshots in a confined space. Arthur also had complete awareness over the situation which strengthens his accountability. In the campfire strat, Arthur had the intention to kill the man and purposefully lured the man into a trap which he knew would kill him. And if the man was careless enough to step in the fire then clearly he didn't have enough awareness, which could be through angered tunnel vision. This is getting a bit hypothetical for a silly video game challenge, but I would say that Arthur is responsible for death in both scenarios since he had intention to kill, full awareness over what would happen, and took advantage of the opponent's lack of awareness, such as the raiders being drunk, or Kratos having tunnel vision from anger and not being able to see surrounding danger.
@@Boileryardhe lassoes and disarms people in front of hostile gunmen. If getting Bill to kill three-gun Gary wasn't Arthur's fault, then neither is this dynamite.
You basically set a trap on them to kill them, so that's your kill i'm afraid. There was a similar situation in real world, when homeowner set a trap on robbers, one of them activated it and got shot by a shotgun. This case went to court and homeowner was found guilty of using excesive force.
I was thinking the same, using darkviperAU s logic for his gta v series, he specifically said that setting up traps would not be valid (like kevin s smart move of placing cars so the enemies blow them up in SA) the same would apply if you went to put sticky bombs in the middle of shoot outs
See this is one thing the law gets wrong imo. Doesnt matter what youve done as far as setting a trap. If they dont come where they shouldnt be itll never hurt them.
@@follar00 I mean, this law was probably introduced to stop common people from admistering juistice, because for that we have courts. If you have any worries of getting robbed, you should contact local authorities, instead of serving the juistice yourself.
@@kacperoborzynski8576The much bigger issue with setting traps is that you don't know who will trip them, it could be innocent people, perhaps emergency services have to get into your house to assist you and they run the risk of setting them off.
Hey hope you notice this because you can avoid killing the guy in last chapter 2 mission by shooting near his elbow (for some reason it will give you positive honor) and immediately shooting him in the head. Three reasons why it's not a kill: 1) Hitmarker is grey 2) If you aim at guy immediately after shooting him he's still alive because the crosshair is red. He only dies after touching the ground without any indication that it's because of you. 3)Doesn't count towards kill count in weapons part of compendium
Incredible episode in an incredible show. That being said, guilty. Always felt that Kratos burning in the campfire was murder too. Although I always prefer that to simple murder obviously. I think the same way you count Kills and K.O., you should keep track of those « induced environmental accidents ». Great series, you are one of the very few people making me go back to RU-vid once in a while to rewatch some of my favorites. Hoping your mental health is not too damaged for our fun. Sorry of my english is weird btw.
Easily innocent, look you being able to do what you do is already mindblowing, this game does not want to give you a helping hand. I think it's totally fair to use strategies of this type when the "preferred" ones run out. This series is so much fun already, and having this possibility will make brainstorming missions strategies even cooler. Also the editing is top notch, I'm so happy to see how much you grew as a content creator, keep the awesome work going, independent of the series.
i haven't even gotten into a minute but i need to tell you that; Eyezayar your editing and effort put into these videos is amazing. I look forward to each one because they're worth multiple watches. They're fantastically put together and easily, this is one of my favorite series of ANY media. Cheers to you, mate!
When I saw Hosea realize that TGB saved him and in that realization yeeted himself over the railing I knew this had bad news written all over it… like in permanent marker and shit.
This series is truly amazing and addicting! Hilarious at times and ultimately THE most entertaining on all of RU-vid. You deserve all the praise and then some, for all the hard work and mental effort it takes to make one of these episodes! P.S. “I can take this if you want” 😂
Dynamite is not just a weppon, it is a tool for opening things ie bank vaults, Mr morgan was simply attempting to open that table up for he believed "THE BUG" was trapped inside, he then requested the assistance of the two men but that unfortunately led to their deaths.
I’m going to say innocent, as someone stated in the comments, Hosea was just as close to it as they were and he survived. And because of a lack of a kill marker it can be safe to say they are potentially unconscious in a way, albeit possibly a stretch. None the less I say innocent
You have a tally for knockouts and kills in this run. Maybe a compromise is to add a "manipulations" tally. So this instance, and the campfire incident would add a mark. That would mean you still have a mark against the run, but it's not counting as a kill, since you didn't technically kill them outright.
@philm0graphy I started watching his videos a long time ago with his analysis of RDR2 characters and fell in love with his style. His narratives are fantastic. 🙂
After over a month of debating, I conclude innocent, because even if it's your fault, it doesn't matter. it's not confirmed they are dead. Hosea survived the explosion and was way closer to it and had less cover. The knockback may have just knocked them out.
my "verdict": im not eligible in any law practice or anything regarding the law but this is just a question of ethics and morals. heres an example, albeit a stupid one. if you place a book, upwards, standing near the edge of a bookshelf, and a bug big and heavy enough to tip that book over the edge of the shelf and onto the ground lands on that book, and somehow is caught under it and is promptly crushed to death by said book...was it your fault? you placed the book there, and yes i know you could counter by saying a bug doesnt have the intelligence to understand weight, but lets ignore that. the bug died because of its own choice, not yours. could you have prevented it? yeah, of course, but could the bug also have prevented it? yes, that as well. on the contrary however, the dynamite as shown in the video is indeed, a weapon. and you planted it there, so it was your weapon. the two men at the door, poor drunk souls, aiming for W.J's head peaked over the table, missed and hit one of the sticks launching them backwards and probably killing them due to shrapnel, shock, or all of the above (not listed!). it can be assumed that you planted it there with intent to kill, but with the provided context that W.J is not intending to kill anyone in this run of the game, and simply incapacitate them, it can go... anywhere, really. Denis O, being the one to suggest putting the dynamite in front of W.J's head, is also a main suspect, but this "case" (as cringey as it sounds) isnt necessarily about the murder of the two men, its about the morality of it. Denis O was, much like W.J/eyezayar was simply trying to make it so the men were knocked out. this has nothing to do with Denis. another argument to be made is that W.J. moved so that they would shoot the dynamite, but its seen in the select clip at 27:10 that he's barely moving. my conclusion on all of this, is simply that the men did it to themselves. aiming to kill another man in their drunken stooper, miscalculated and hit the dynamite intended to knock them out. with all previous videos providing evidence that W.J. is not a killer, i believe this was simply a failed stunt in way for the men to move, and no longer be an obstacle. verdict...? innocent?
I think the fact that you didn’t light it and they shot it means the blame is on them, before you threw dynamite at them and they jumped out of the way to save themselves, they knew what the dynamite did and had the mechanics necessary to save themselves but didn’t, Arthur Morgan is still The Goodest Boah in The West in my opinion
i say Arthur is innocent. those guys watched you place the dynamite and still chose to shoot at it, leaving the blame on them, same with Kratos walking into the campfire.
I know i'm late but I'd say this counts as Arthur killing but I'd also have counted the campfire as arthur killing. Its a trap you set up and coax the ai into triggering. If bear traps were in this game and you set one up and wrote a story about how arthur was just trying to hunt a bear and this guy happened to walk into it and die thats the same thing.
I say it should be allowed. Here’s why. Ultimately for the series in general from a pure entertainment standpoint, having a final resort to a problem after hours and hours of testing more “normal” strategies still being a challenge within itself seems like a more interesting concept. It’s not like this strategy is a get out of jail free for any situation (i.e. enemies that do not shoot, forced deadeye where dynamite cannot be placed, no viable areas to place dynamite, etc) . It still requires planning, strategy, and a bit of luck to work if it is to work at all. Removing it in its entirety leaves the ending of every “impossible” segment to just be a shot to the head with no further elaboration. It allows for greater creativity whilst still remaining in the spirit of the challenge. Your honour, I rest my case
Exactly. This game was clearly not designed to be beaten by not using violence/killing your enemies and getting this far with so much effort not to actively kill, proves in my opinion that player has done his ultimate best and deserves the moral high ground. INNOCENT I say.
So just because it's entertaining means he's innocent? Ok, so if I strap a subwoofer to my back with neon lights and kill 30 people then its perfectly fine because at least it was entertaining?
Yeah he went out of his way to try every possible way not to cause those two deaths and they ultimately died of their of free choice when they knowingly shot at dynamite in close proximity. Would have never blown up if the NPCs didn’t chose violence.
@@Boileryard Yes, because that is what I’m saying. If you completely ignore the context in which the question was asked, bingo. He said himself it’s a decision about the future of the series, not an actual damn court case lmfao
You could also argue that since dynamite was created as a mining/construction tool and not originally as a weapon that it falls into the tool category just as the campfire
Fuck Yeah he's back boys, Good to see you Eyezayar🎉 Your channel is criminally underrated, even though a quarter of a million subscriber is a fuck ton, I'll still think your criminally underrated when you hit a million which I know you will. Been watching since you're character analysis and had no idea how great your channel would become. Love your shit mate.
I rarely comment on a video but I must commend you for the work you put into these videos. I watched this series, all the videos back to back and will probably do so another time as well. It was amusing beyond description, I'm just a bit sad it came at the cost of your mental health trying to break Rockstar's design 😅 But in short, what I wanted to say, you are a delightful storyteller and comedian. Thank you for these videos, they are very appreciated 🙏
I just love how you include Arthur into your suffering, the life this man has lived by the end will be a feat of human perseverance unlike anything seen before.
You’re easily one of the best RU-vidrs I’ve seen on the platform. Yet another masterpiece in editing, narration, and direction. Congrats on the finishing of this video.
Maybe record the kills in two categories so when totalled up we have two numbers depending on people's opinions. You could also use that method on some earlier levels...
