The Most Famous Gospel Not In The Bible - What Is The Gospel of Thomas? 

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Thanks so much for the invite! Loved the conversation.

Frankly, I don't understand why you don't invite Jesus to your podcast; it would settle all these questions once and for all.

Jesus having a twin would make it ridiculously easy for them to fake the resurrection. That's the first place my mind went, rather than the virgin birth.

I've watched this video, your video with Elaine Pagels and with Dr. Justin Sledge from Esoterica all back to back and they've all been really, really great stuff! I'm super interested in looking at religion and in particular Christianity from a scholarly historical perspective, but a lot of the content that offers that can be quite dense and difficult to watch and follow. For example, while I love Esoterica, sometimes the content can be a bit difficult to watch if it's on a topic I'm not already intimately familiar with, but your video with Dr. Sledge did a great job of sort of weaving his knowledge into a narrative that's more digestible and informative from someone without that scholarly background. I felt the same for this video and your video with Elaine Pagels. I've been aware of your channel for quite some time and have always watched your videos here and there, but this recent content featuring experts in the field has been an absolute delight to listen to and it really feels to me like you've found a niche here that no one else on youtube is doing, so I hope you continue down this path. Please keep up the fantastic work, and I'll be here to eagerly consume the fruits of your labors!

Two of my fav religion youtubers! This will be a fantastic watch

This was such an interesting discussion! I look forward to more discussions like this

The depth if your combined insights and speculation is most satisfying and impressive and I thank you both for this discussion.

Thank you for insightfully engaging with the material

Thanks for banging out so much amazing content Alex

thank you Alex, please continue these great podcasts!!!!

uploaded in perfect time--thanks Alex!

Rly enjoying this series, keep it up Alex.

Keep these coming Alex. I would dearly love one how much the gospels are affected by Paul. I've got some partial answers but can't seem to find a lengthy answer.

00:48 I appreciate the edit to ~pan out to both of you, to show Alex's absolutely massive grin at the notion of what he's about to hear.

Really enjoyed this dialogue. It was great!

1:09:05 lol! "I'm no divider." Jesus is doing the "get a load of this guy" move

Big brother really helping little bro get thru this text. Nice job!

This was such a great watch!!

Alex, great conversation! Great guest. 👍🏿💙💙💙🥰✌🏻

I've not come across a host on youtube as knowledgeable as Alex. He can ask such well informed questions. It's pretty astounding. Great guest, by the way. Fascinating stuff.

What a great team up! Thank you guys!

I'm currently living close to St. Thomas Mount (a.k.a Parangimalai) where St. Thomas allegedly got killed (I can see the mountain from my house rooftop). Its fascinating as a local how this event happening thousands of miles across being crucial to Christian cannon.. There are some reports on how his death might have caused but here locally, the story is that he was killed by a bunch of bandits uphill for his belonging.. People in the west say he got decapitated (Syrian tradition because he brought bunch of Syrian Christians to South India) or stoned both of which are not possible because stoning someone to death is not a common practice here and there is no alleged action by St. Thomas which would result in his decapitation and there is no evidence for proper trial that happened on him either. One other story which I recently heard is that he got impaled by spears and the spear tips are preserved, which I never heard it till now so its worth noting as well. You can sill find his remains in a tomb in a church called "San Thome" which is relatively close. Just to add some info for the audience.. Edit: Added the spear line

Alex I have to tell you that I really appreciate your work here!!! It was a great experience all the way through. And I must say that you were on point, it was a delight to watch. Thanks again man.

Great stuff. Really dig these type of conversations. The book of Thomas is probably my favorite of all the writings. Short and sweet but so much in it to unpack. PS Still wish those dresser drawers were in the background.

I've been waiting for this kind of material for quite some time

He is saying….We are all one! God lives in us all.

I really enjoyed that episode. Can't wait to watch all the series on those gospels.

Super excited for this new series!

Can i suggest that this Gospel of Thomas is easier to understand as a Zen text. Many of the struggles you are having are released if, for example, you switch 'kingdom of heaven' for 'nirvana'. I'm not necessarily saying it is a product of Buddhism (though there was already cross-fertilisation between Greeks and Buddhists before Jesus), but that they are both drawn from the same pursuit. There is only one 'reality' out there and, if mystics grapple with it, you would expect many of them to arrive a similar positions. The Chinese seem to be more along this road, seeing Confucianism, Buddhism and Taoism as three branches of the same tree.

Loved this talk! Any chance we'll see NT Wright sometime soon?

Great conversation on thomas. More gnostic books, please, as they are all new to me. Enjoyed Andrew's insight.

Great Conversation!! I’ve long been fascinated by New Testament Apocrypha!!!

Hallelujah!!! I’m the favorite, $60,000 every week! Now I can afford anything and also support the work of God and the church.

Always a great time when religion for breakfast is on

Great discussion guys

This whole series is amazing❤

The material world isn’t condemned, but the egoistic attachment to it is objectively acknowledged

Love it, look forward to more episodes.

Great episode!

Always thinking of this quote from Lost when Thomas is brought up. " Ben Linus: Thomas the Apostle. When Jesus wanted to return to Judea, knowing that he would probably be murdered there, Thomas said to the others, "Let us also go there and we might die with him." But Thomas was not remembered for this bravery. His claim to fame came later when he refuses to acknowledge the resurrection. He just couldn't wrap his mind around it. The story goes that he needed to touch Jesus wounds to be convinced. Jack Shephard: So was he? Ben Linus: Of course he was. We are all convinced sooner or later, Jack. "

We believe that St. Thomas came to Kerala, India in AD 52.

I love this talk!! Thank you both

Wonderful exploration! Thank you!!

Great interview. Could you please also do an episode on the Gospel of Epididymus?

Thanks for all your excellent work Mr O Connor, I am a simple layman without any higher education but still really enjoy what you do .

Listening to this on my ride into town 😊

Love your work Alex, thank you for your work

I've seen Barth Erhman say that Thomas seems to have been considered Jesus' twin in a non-literal sense, and later sources indicate that some early christians saw thomas as an exemplar of following jesus' example, and so he became twinned to Jesus

1:12:56 i heard recently, and this fits even better with Platos idea of the original androgyne being having been bifurcated. and that's that the text does not in fact say that Eve was formed from Adam's rib, but from his side. that is to say, the original primordial androgynous being was bifurcated to form the two. which i think makes a whole lot more sense. you know, we tend to scoff at the Adam & Eve story. "how could a woman be formed from a mans rib? preposterous!" and there's this Christian cope "well no! you can actually feel it. your left ribcage has 1 less rib than your right." when in fact it does. but this whole back & forth stems from a mistranslation!! it's just like how the commandment isn't "Thou shalt not kill". again, it's another mistranslation. no it's "Thou shalt not murder." 1:18:45 again, i don't know. i think with all the... what did Andrew call it? "Twintheology"? i think the quote is addressed specifically to Simon Peter's inquiry about Mary. but if he were to ask the same thing about a different person, a male person; he would say the vice versa equivalent. the female is "incomplete" without the male, but so too is the male "incomplete" without the female. or the feminine without the masculine, and the masculine without the feminine. 1:24:07 great show, loved the in depth discussion. and i'm excited to see more like this!! one final thought. i don't think this book was determined non-canonical because of the reasons laid out by Andrew. i think it's because of it's heretically equal treatment of the sexes. y' know, outside of that last saying, and even within it under a more charitable interpretation, it's pretty equal. again, because of that Platonic idea of the original primordial androgyne. Andrew mentioned the Gospel of Thecla, also a gospel which equalizes women to some degree. the Gospels were not canonized by God, i remind everyone. they were canonized by men. human, male, men. is it really any wonder that the canonical gospels uphold the patriarchy? (sorry if that was a bit too feministy, but i think it's true!)

This was really awesome

Thank you🙌✨

Hearing these kinds of vague and seemingly contradictory sayings makes much more sense to me when contemplating them from/through an advaita vedanta perspective. Especially after watching many lectures by Swami Sarvapriyananda, it makes me feel like these apparent contradictions may be able to be brought into conformity if we understand them in a “levels of understanding/knowing/reality” framework, such as proposed by Neoplatonism (which I know from John Vervaeke’s work, which also helps me a lot in grappling with these weird and abstract wordplays). I’d love it if Alex would dive a little into more eastern philosophy and make some content on it. At least to me, having done so has given me a very different perspective from which to understand Abrahamic religions, and I feel like it’s a deeper one at that too. I still remain agnostic, but getting into contact with these arguably more “profound” aspects of religion, in a more participatory and open-minded manner, made me feel like I started to understand myself and the world a little better, even if I don’t necessarily believe the propositional content of their proposed metaphysics. It’d be amazing to hear what Alex would make of all this, especially on Vedanta, Neoplatonism and Vervaeke’s work.

Alex's logo reminds me of the Dairy Queen logo

The thing I find most fascinating is that I can relate to so much of the Gospel of Thomas in the way that I've gained understandings very much like what the gospel says without ever having read the gospel or hearing about it before now.I feel like many of the sayings in the gospel could have been written by myself as I have written very similar things in my own journal and there is such striking similarity that it is both strange and comforting. I am not saying that I am divinely inspired, but much of what I have come to understand about things I feel comes from my true self which has a direct connection to the Source of all there is. I have seen what is beyond this physical existence and I have known my true self all my life. I can see and feel connections to everything and everyone and I understand more about the Universe than I am able to articulate in a way that others would believe me or understand the way that I do. Thank you for sharing this video and the content to help others understand things that I have gained understanding of. Alex, I hope some day to be able to meet you and have a discussion with you about this and other topics of interest, but at least I am able to watch your videos and I hope you will continue to enrich the lives of your viewers for years to come.

ਤੋਹੀ ਮੋਹੀ ਮੋਹੀ ਤੋਹੀ ਅੰਤਰੁ ਕੈਸਾ ॥ You are me, and I am You-what is the difference between us? ਕਨਕ ਕਟਿਕ ਜਲ ਤਰੰਗ ਜੈਸਾ ॥੧॥ We are like gold and the bracelet, or water and the waves. ||1|| Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji

When I was in college in 2011, I met a guy who was a little older student, like me, and he approached me and started hanging around me until we became friends. I went to his apartment and we had some drinks one night before heading downtown to the local club/bar scene. I noticed the bible on his bookshelf and he got excited and asked If I was a Christian. I told him I was and we went back and forth sharing some stories and then went out for the night. Months later, My opinion on this person has changed slightly.. hes a little odd, never has food in his fridge - only bottles of vitamins/minerals and had told me about the gospel of Thomas which was apparently important to him. He was fascinated by herbs and pharmacology, did assignments involving them where he could even when it barely made sense to. One day we had another mutual college friend over and the topic of religion had come up. Our other friend was skeptical but asking questions and I was answering but when it came to saying Jesus died for our sins... suddenly this guy was denying it was the correct interprettation of the story. He was laughing and saying 'no!' 'wrong!' like I was making a simple obvious mistakes and even reached out to slap my hand when I tried to press on about the gospel. I realized he had a very different idea about Christianity than me that he was keeping close to his chest. One day, after our courses had split and we werent seeing each other as much, also due to the fact he admitted he had put some kind of herb or vitamin in my drink the first night we hung out that he described as a "natural speed", he had asked me for a ride to a friends house he was staying at. I aggreed and we were walking out the front of the school together. There was a woman walking towards us to enter the school and suddenly, he switched to my other side and held his bag up in front of him in a weird way. I knew he was trying to not get the attention of the woman so I just looked down and kept going.. as we passed her, she called out "Jason?" which was his name. He said hello to her as if he hadnt noticed her but what came next, I never would have expected to hear. She had just been hired as a teacher at this college. She asked how he was doing and said it had been a long time.. then she asked if there were any covens nearby in our town. He gave an awkward chuckle and replied "uhh yeah!" and proceeded to list off several that were apparently nearby. She then went on to joke with him about how they had gone camping together in the Yukon for the purpose of doing witchcraft. He laughed it all off and said we had to get going and she said her goodbyes. We walked silently back to my car until he blurted out "So.. now you know im a witch!". I just said "yeah!". I took him to his apartment and we didnt hang out again. The 40min drive home I had a lot to think about. Why did this feel so targetted.. I had been working a night driving job and listening to bible studies all the time before school started. Why did it suddenly feel like this person sought me out and forced this friendship. Why wasnt he straight up about anything and allowed me to believe he believed what I did until he was tired of hearing my traditional version of things. It felt like God had put that woman in front of us on the walk out of the school. Thats my experience with the gospel of Thomas. Make of it what you will.

I think Alex has it about right at 55:40 ... about an enlightenment (i prefer self realisation) available for all. Although it's not just about knowledge but also understanding which ideally will open your mind and heart. There's a buddhist saying which goes: "Understanding is the path to true love" - To know yourself and to know the other, as oneself, meaning a shared 'spirit' or 'being'. I experienced this mystical state some 29 years ago when i was 26. At the time i experienced it like a near death experience ... but like a psychological death, a death of the ego or false self so to speak. I had been through two years of trauma due to narcissistic abuse which fragmented or shook my sense of self, such that i just didn't know who or what i was anymore and in my suffering i was forced really, to 'find myself' and overcome my crisis. The actual process far too convoluted and nuanced to explain here, but cut to about 18 months later i had reached a point, one October night, in a kind of surrender of self acceptance and allowing whatever to be, i let go. In hindsight there were some very unusual sensations at the onset of the experience that tell me that one way of describing what happened is that i had a 'kundalini awakening' (“As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up" ). So on this night i was anxious, hurting emotionally and suffering, but with a deep love and now, acceptance for my predicament. I had to let go of this ex' of mine, a woman i had loved deeply but who had abused and and betrayed me and caused me so much harm. I didn't want to but knew i had to, ... to cut the ties, and let her go and do whatever, and have a new begining myself, i'd done alot of inner work over those 18 months and there has been alot of healing and self love. So anyway a moment arrived and i let go, surrendered, and it wasn't intentional but rather it came over me, took me, and i let out a little whimper and kind of collapsed but no loss of consciousness ... just the deepest peace i've ever felt in my life, like all my burdens had vanished and i was in a totally rested state. I felt a very strange sensation ... as if there was a large metal or heavy ball bearing, or something, right up my ass, wobbling from side to side in a steady repeating rhythm. Even in that moment it bought up thoughts of how a rattlesnake rattles it's tail as it reminded me of that kind of rhythm, and it was so curious, ... what was this? (with the benefit of hindsight i think a muscular spasm or like something going on with the g spot?). - Then in this serene and deeply restful, peaceful state, a light flashed into being before my eyes, seemingly a few feet away perhaps but very much before me and my attention was drawn to and into this light. "Well done you have learned to love" it said. "But you cannot stay here in this state, however if you look after your body, ... treat it like a temple, you may be able to return at some point in the future". - I had lost awarness of a body in this state yet it also seemed that my center of consciousness was just on top of my head. I remember looking away from the light and still aware somewhat of my room and surroundings, and looking back at the light again, and then ... realisations. I was that light. "That's me?" i thought. I became aware that i was 'spirit' itself (not 'a' spirit, just spirit), or call it 'being' or a conscious presence and self, but also that there was no 'other'. I knew i was both nothing and nobody, yet everything and everybody. It seems my so called 'third eye' had fully opened also as i was experiencing everything in a very different way, most noticably, visually and spacially, and seeing auras if you like, ... energy fields and formations, patterns and also symbolic elements and it was as if whatever i thought about or focused on i would recieve information about both visually and just by 'knowing'. So in a sense a trance like visionary state but super aware, super-conscious. The light gradually faded and i kind of toyed around with my awareness seeing what i could do with it and i recall at one point 'looking' into my body (yes the one i'd lost awareness of) but not with my eyes, just by focusing awareness on it. After a while the experience faded and i returned to normal consciousness. Stunned, somewhat shaken, and intrigued by the experience. I stood up feeling quite invigorated and powerful and did a curious thing where i used my hands in a smoothing motion a good several times, from my heart down to my groin, as if i was pushing something gently back down ... kinda like some kind of grounding thing you might do in tai chi, ... kinda curious considering i much later came to understand it in the sense of a kundalini awakening, which kind of entails movement of energy and consciousness. So all in all i was kinda shocked by the occurence of that night. I'd never heard of people having experiences like that. I concluded that others must sometimes experience the same thing. Christ consciousness? A 'christ experience'? Yeah sure, considering the context of my predicament concerning someone i loved and their abuse and betrayal, and my struggles to understand and love and everything and the eventual acceptance and forgiveness. It actually was a massive, .. heroic even, effort and easily the most difficult and testing two years of my life. I draw many comparisons to the gospel of Thomas however the persona of Jesus kind of muddies the waters and confuses the issue. Spirit or 'being' doesn't have a name and it's a mistake to identify it with any one person over another. God is nothing other than your own self

Not sure about the direction from a commercial standpoint, but it definitely works for me!

Great conversation as usual. I'd love to see you dialogue with either Jimmy Akin or Trent Horn in the future of its possible!

Fascinating discussion (as usual)! My knowledge of Buddhism is rather limited, but there does seem to be at least a few parallels in Thomas to important concepts from Buddhism. In particular, the irrelevance of the "material world" and the quest for salvation through Nirvana. Does anyone else get those vibes?

Luke 25:1 “Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.”

I have heard the sayings of Thomas compared to Haiku the Japanese short poems. They are for meditation and revelatio rather than explanation. I found that helpful!

I've enjoyed your channel for a long time, but now I can honestly say you have been putting out more interesting content *for Christians* than any Christian podcaster I know. Keep 'em coming!

Please get Bernardo Kastrup on the show Alex! 🙏🥺

Preyz Gord for ths presentation

Alex is such a smart man and very patient with aggressive people who dislike him, he doesn’t loose his coolness, ever, very mature.

Love this crossover!

What a fantastic episode. I follow both of you and this is a great conversation. Both of you have the gift and the will to talk with facts and simple language anyone can access. No hiding in pseudo philosophical speak to mask weaknesses ( jordan peterson). Thank you and I hope you keep working together .

Yep, I've heard some people call it the Fifth Gospel.

Love these discussions. Personally, I think we can understand these saying/quotes a little better if we come from an Eastern religious or philosophical background.

That was so bloody interesting.

If Jesus had a twin, did he prestige the resurrection?

Been waiting for this… I come from Ohio heavy rural religious area and I’ve tried for very long to find my faith, for others it seems so easy and through my search for my faith I think I’ve found why. Ignorance wether conscious or subconscious some people choose to believe it despite understanding the inconsistency’s and other just never really learn about the background of the religion… to say you belive a book is purely the word of god and then let other human beings pick and choose what does and dosent constitute “divine” is a complete oxymoron we at least as a society need to move past the fundamentalist ideas that every word in these books is the inspired word of god when every conceivable angle says otherwise

To me “Be passers by…” simply means, witness the world but do not become attached to it. It makes sense when you contrast it to the parable of the merchants. It’s very clear.

I 'stumbled' across this - so refreshing & enjoyable to hear both narrations which were generally at home in me. Have now subscribed for future episodes. Thank you very much. Didnt hear comments on 'if God created male & female after 'his' own image' would not the Creator be both male & female (Alpha & Omega)? - this would justify the goal of soul integration with God/Christ further perhaps.

What's this? A crossover episode?

Please do one of these on the gospel of judas next! The vision of christian spiritual truth in that text reads as so much more intellectually sound and appealing than the current accepted orthodoxy.

Great video

Very interesting video. I’ve watched a few of the hosts interviews and I find it infuriating that he rarely acknowledges or responds to the guests answers. He simply says “mmmm” then makes another statement, using his guests as two dimensional sounding boards.

I bought the book off all the lost gospel it very interesting where most was got off the copper scrolls.. It very important to think and ask questions and not one knows till we take our last breathe

The verses where Jesus comments on unity and 2:1 comparisons are basically nonduality. Amazing to see this fundamental existential thought had been discovered independently by so many ancient religions, and yet, through the years we have lost this thread of truth.

This is Thomas. I cry reading the words of my brother. The meaning is so clear yet biblical scholars fail to understand. If you understand you hold the light, if not you are in the dark. The worst part is I have to love both of you. ❤

I like the philosophy topics and all, but when it's about religion I feel like home, because Alex brings my peeps from other channels.

Elaine Pagels has suggested the John vs Thomas thesis..as well as the John vs Peter perhaps

Hi. Thanks for this, fascinating. Seen from a Daoist-inspired perspective. Gospel of Thomas " If your leaders tell you, etc ". By designating heaven as " after ", " post " or beyond life, the left hemisphere or the grasping egoic part of the mind gives itself reign over the present. 37:00 The context of " corpse ", is the egoic grasping chattering monkey mind, when asked to show this identity it is seen as an inner creation ( ghost ) that circles around itself. The context of " poverty ", this again is the poorly aware and self-clinging ego part of our nature that avoids and ignores self-reflective " spiritual " wisdom. The context of " You became drunk from the bubbling spring which I have dug ", points to the claim of acting as if in compelled servitude ( worshipping the signpost and not what it points to ). . The one who reads this with criticism, and judgment and wishes to obfuscate by comparison, is the same one that is being pointed to as the dead weight when transformation of aware presence ( separation and reintergration ) is practised.

I have a pet theory that the "doubting Thomas" narrative added included to dispell the notion that Thomas was impersonating his twin Jesus, pretending to be Jesus reincarnated. If Thomas is seen to have been in the same place at the same time as resurrected Jesus, he cannot be accused of impersonating him.

at 27:00 theirs a moment where he lights up talking about the doubting Thomas ... maybe im just high and am an arm chair psychologist but he says himself when the faith that makes more sense to him is a spiritual resurrection. My man is finding his faith... me too good luck

That’s like the most sibling thing to do. “My brother came back to life? Yeah I wouldn’t believe him, let me touch him first”

I’d like to point out that the primordial man in Plato’s Symposium weren’t just androgynous. They came in three types, some that were half male and half female, like which are referenced in the video, some that both halves were male, and some that both haves were female. The myth was used as one of the ways to explain the origin of love, which is the topic of Plato’s Symposium as a whole. The myth explains that humans aren’t in their original whole state and are seeking out their other half for completion. However Plato makes a point in saying that the humans which descended from the primordial man in which both halves were male are superior than those that came from the androgynous and female humans(got to love that Greek misogyny). I think this context helps explain verse 114 in the Gospel of Thomas in that it shows people(Jews, Platonists, and early Christians) did just think the male spirit was superior to the female. If more people realized these beliefs are simply irreconcilable with feminism then maybe we could work towards a better secular humanist society

We need ariff Ahmed from Cambridge, he is an exceptional mind with same interests

At 30:00 you cite a section which says that the 'kingdom' is within, not an afterlife. This is near-identical to the Buddhist 'nirvana', which is not a state which can only happen well into the future, but is available right now. It seems to me that the great teachings, including the tao, are saying roughly the same thing. Could you explore this?

Great conversation and great questions, as always, Alex. Around 1:02:00 I don't think it's a condemnation of trade and traders, but of a value system which fundementally excludes God- a currency the value of which is absolute and which precludes acquisition and exchange. I see it as if the posession of gold, figuratively speaking, would satisfy all the needs of those who possess it. Therefore, any exchange of posessions would be redundant and effectively a devaluation of that which is the singular posession of a person, that is, the kingdom of god, by which the person may be simultaneously possesed as if it does not belong to the person, but the person belongs to it. It is my observation at any rate. Thank you!

I recently did a deep dive into researching whether Gnosticism is plausibly what Jesus actually preached. I've always been sympathetic to Gnosticism, so I went in equating Gnosticism to early Christianity, and believing that it's not useful to refer to it as a separate ideology, but after looking at the evidence, I've changed my mind. I started by attempting to find any credible writing with first hand testimony of Jesus and what he believed, especially if it was apocryphal, but I also looked through the canon bible. My reasoning was, if we want to discover what Jesus believed, he would be the best person to ask. What I discovered is that there is exactly zero direct writings about Jesus. Those writings which claimed to be, or are claimed after the fact, by people who directly spoke to Jesus, when investigated all turn out to be, almost certainly, written later and by other people. Of the gospels, the oldest of them was likely written at least 40 years after Jesus's death, and while that's semi-plausible for it to be written by someone who knew him, it's stretching the limits. The only biblical figure known to have actually written the books attributed to him is Paul, and Paul is an interesting one. He was definitely alive during the time of Jesus, but he doesn't even claim to have personally known Jesus. What's worse, every other book of the bible either definitively comes substantially after Paul's death, or is dependent on Paul's writings. While I personally think it's most likely Jesus was a real historical figure who was, long after his death, mythologized, I also find it very plausible that just about everything Christians believe about Jesus comes Chiefly from Paul, both from his writings, and his evangelism. I'd say there likely were other followers of Jesus who influenced Paul's writings, but overall, Christianity, in my view, was founded by Paul. He is indisputably the earliest and most influential author in the new testament. What this means for Gnosticism is, if Jesus really did preach some secret gospel not also preached by Paul, we have absolutely no way of knowing. While Pauline Christianity clearly does date back to the first century, with Jesus's death being placed roughly around 30AD, there is no sign of Gnosticism until early in the second century. Perhaps before some of the canon bible, but definitely after Jesus died and the four canon gospels were written, which is well after Paul, the founder of Christianity as we know it, died. If Gnostic thought does date back to Jesus, thus being part of Christianity all along, it would've had to have been preserved outside of any known writings, including those we could infer to exist through other writings, for at minimum, three generations after his death, as the early Gnostic thought seems to have originated either very late in the first century, or more likely, shortly after the turn of the century. What seems to be undeniably true is that Gnosticism has it's origin both in Christianity through Paul, who the do revere, and Plutarch, a Platonist who served as a source for a lot of the ideas of Gnosticism. Keeping in mind that Gnostics were not simply followers of Paul, but also incorporated many other ideas, most noticeably from Plutarch, I think it definitely makes sense to view it as a separate religious movement. What solidifies this understanding more is the fact that, as soon as it started to gain traction, many early Christian priests denounced their ideas, which tells us that there already was a strong orthodox movement underway. That said, I don't want to downplay the fact that these two general currents of Christianity did substantially intermingle, and many Gnostics would've never saw themselves as separate from any other Christians. To many, Gnostic ideas were simply part of Christianity, much in the same way Christianity is split into two distinct movements, Catholic and Protestant, but often people, especially those less educated, simply view Christianity as a whole as a single set of beliefs and practices. While many members of the church worked to expel Gnostic ideas, much of the proliferation of those ideas also came from priests, which also often led to their expulsion. It is likely that many members of the church who viewed themselves as orthodox held some, though relatively few, Gnostic beliefs. To put it simply, there were two distinct movements, with a substantial amount of intermingling, and there weren't officially separated until the Nicene Creed.

Also, Thomas has no resurrection account. John forces Thomas to acknowledge a resurrection. Polemical? You bet!

Also in the latest movie about St.Paul, when Luke approaches Paul and tells him that the people ran to listen to him (Paul), he said the following, at least by meaning if I am not mistaken, that Paul spoke like the Master (like Jesus), it is as if the saw Jesus in him when the latter preached.

“When you come to know yourself then you will be known” This indicates you are both the subject and the object. A process of the subject knowing itself as the subject separate from conscious objects like the sense of bodily self, the thoughts etc needs to occur, a purification of subject to become pure awareness. When you know yourself as the subject, you are also NOT the body, that is the objectification. When pure awareness knows itself as no thing, it grasps for an object to identify with. But all objects are seen as other. It leaves a bittersweet taste as the self is both readily known, yet not apparent. But if that grasping can ease, you will see the non dual aspect of self. Split a piece of wood etc. satori.

All glory to God this is good stuff! Love yall ❤

1:15:26 theyre talking about the spirit. but all you intellectuals and non spiritual people dont or cant comprehend what that is.

Love these episodes about the gnostic/non-canonical gospels. Can't wait for the next ones especially the one with Bart Ehrman 😊