The fact he made the other ghoul think about a happy and warm memory before his mind forever eroded to nothing, shows this man has more heart than half the wasteland does. I don’t even think that them knowing eachother was the reason for that. Guy literally empathizes with him, understands the hell he is going through as that is a hell in Coopers future. And instead of justifying the instant killing of him via Fear of this future. Gives the guy an end he would want: as much of a peaceful death for a ghoul that can’t die in its sleep of old age.
If I remember right, in the movie scene where his character kills the guy, he objected to the portrayal and didn't like that direction for the character. His last cocky line in that scene sets up this righteous anger or vengeance in the act. I love that juxtaposition with how he handles the ghoul, a similar "Talking to a stricken person" scene, Coop the person approaches it with compassion and care, being the person he wanted his character to model. The show has so many beautiful moments of that setup and comparison and linking and modeling War never changes, and there's a line of thinking that people just need an excuse to be their worst selves, but in the end, even for people who appear at their worst, those moments of care and compassion don't change either. They're just as much a part of humanity, possibly the most core part in what even makes a person human. In a scene directly showing him facing a future he fears, where he becomes an unthinking monster, in that moment he shows his compassion strongly in the face of it
I like that in the Hollywood scene he won’t shoot the guy because of his morales and how he wants to be merciful, even in fiction, and in the wasteland he does shoot the ghoul as an act of mercy like you said, this shows that in the end he was still being merciful both ways
I think a very important detail you missed is that the last time Cooper saw Wilzig, he was at least able to walk on his own and the next time he sees him is a decapitated body. He didn't know about the cyanide pill Wilzig took. He didn't know that Wilzig himself asked to decapitate him. He saw the body and thought: "Woah. So short on the surface and she already ready to kill." Or he was simply confused. Thaddeus and Maximus even were pretty sure that it must have been the Ghoul who murdered Wilzig. But Cooper knew that it had to be Lucy.
@squircleworks42 i just wanted to say, its Coopers character that shoots the guy in the movie, not Cooper. Cooper argues with the director to try to convince him to just arrest him instead of shooting him. Pre-war Cooper almost seems anti-gun, a stark contrast to The Ghoul.
@@gbazo762 He was the kind of guy who was willing to die in a fire with his dog, instead of not bringing his dog into a vault. He might as well have said okey dokey about something.
yes. this. after my first watch of this vid I went back and rewatched the show twice. I noticed this, and am commenting such for no other reason than I am superficially proud of the very UNimportant fact that we had a similar thought for the same reason lol.
I really like that you brought up the scene where Cooper kills the other ghoul because not only is he basically mercy killing him before he goes feral. But he also distracts him showing that he genuinely cares and wanted his last thoughts to be of something good and his last acts to be him laughing rather than being afraid of dying or turning into a ghoul. Its a show of true kindness and is something that if Cooper was morally gone, wouldnt have cared enough about to do since if he didnt care he would have just shot him once he realized he was too far gone
That scene plus the scene when he didn't kill dog meat were the big signals for me that cooper was meant to be a complex protagonist. Like he uses living things as tools but he's never senselessly cruel. Well except maybe the scene where he doesn't give Lucy water.
yeah I definitely agree here. I feel like there's something interesting (and possibly VERY complex) there if you compare Cooper's thoughtful mercy kill and Moldaver's choice to keep Rose alive
If you play New Vegas, there's essentially an infinite amount of analysis videos on the merits of its different factions, a debate that remains unsettled to this day
Well if you stay interested, welcome to the fallout party! I’m sure there’s more interesting stuff to find for you in that franchise (unpopular opinion but I think it’s actually smarter than elder scrolls)
I was quite sure the series would be abismal failure. But the more i hear about it the better it sounds like. At least it is FAR better than i would have expected
I'd still argue Cooper is a Monster, at least Morally. Pre-War he not only was a famous actor and a Cowboy, but he was also an experienced Veteran from the Alaskan Anchorage. He fought to defend his country and the resources it needed. He even gave the West-Tek guy crap for the flaws in the early T-45 PA designs that cost lives on the battlefield. All this makes the moment when learning his wife was willing to bomb his country was he so horrified. Where as in the wasteland he's a Bounty Hunter. During his introduction as a Ghoul he literally says he does it for sport rather than caps. He was willing to blast off his target's leg and shot up the whole town just to complete the contract. Even going as far to joke to a guy whose neck he shot out when he told him he could've overed him a tato had he not done so. Even with Lucy he cut off her finger and was willing to sell her to have her organs harvested in return for his anti-feral meds. So yeah I'd say family man Coop would very much be horrified by the man he'd become once his whole world burned down-literally.
When the Coop tells Lucy that he’s her, I knew that he meant that he was once as idealistic as she is, but living in the wasteland will eat at your soul.
I think its deeper than that. Cooper is still Idealistic. But in a systemic structure that literally does not give him the options he wants to take. So he winds up choosing to make worse decisions. And becomes numb to it. The way most people become numb to the shitty decisions out own system compels us to accept as good.
I think you basically put into words all of the abstract feelings I had towards these scenes and both their characters after I finished the show. I had all the pieces and knew generally how they were supposed to fit, I just didn't fully put them together till now. Fantastic video, id love to see more fallout stuff from you, specifically a video on Ulysses from the Lonesome Road DLC. He's a very interesting and genuinely deep character that I feel unfairly gets written off as edgy or ignored because "mucho texto".
I think there's a 3rd thing that makes an apocolyps monster. And number 3 is that they enjoy it. Doing what you need to do to survive is one thing. Being needlessly cruel because you find it fun is a whole different thing.
This is such a good analogy! What an awesome video to randomly come across! I think the show uses Cooper as a ghoul to confuse our presumed definition of him as a monster. They make an effort to show him as a monster in other characters' eyes, too. He's The Ghoul, right? THE Ghoul. But he's never actually compared to other ghouls except as a matter of exclusion. He's different. He's bee a ghoul for literal centuries - but he's not feral. Even as he's laying there without his ghouljuice, he's not twitching or showing any signs of going feral in the same way. That is such pointed direction to me. I'm excited to see how it goes!
Cooper Howard was a good man The Ghoul is someone that does what he must to survive in the wasteland he is correct if Lucy is to survive outside of her vault, she will have to become less good and more ghoul.
You're exposition is very nice set up for telling for the rest of the video!! :D Can't wait to see you take off! I'm sticking around! So many well wishes and good luck for you!
Wonderfully done analysis. Kudos! The brilliance of the writing is that it never seems forced and evolves in an organic way with both Lucy and Cooper. Another factor that underlies their arcs is PTSD ... Cooper from his service as a Marine in Alaska and 219 years in the Wasteland, and Lucy from the trials and tribulations that begin in Vault 33 and that culminates in the final scene. So, the Ghoul's line about "you're me, just give it a bit of time" resonates with any veteran, whether from Vietnam or Afghanistan.
This is just an engagement comment, and I haven't watched the show. I see at least three ways to answer the question of the thumbmail. Is cooper a monster, according to apocalypse naratives? (The direction you spoke on.) Acording to our societie's morals. (Discussed in the chat.) And according to the societies of the world he lives in. (Which is brushed on when discussing Lucy's opinion of his actions before and after she's willing to shoot a ghoul in the head when not in self defense. But has room for more discussion.) Also, here from Schnee's Angel Dust video.
Very good point about how other wastlanders see Lucy vs how The Ghoul sees her. At first we see him as cruel and merciless but this show is great at perspective, and we gradually come to see he does have mercy in his own way. But even more interesting is that the Ghoul recognizes Lucy as being like him. Both Lucy and the Ghoul start out in a place of privilege due to their circumstance and luck. Both believe the world opperates a certain way and then both have their world shattered by soneone in their own family doing something horrible. The difference like the Ghoul mentioned is time. The Ghoul has had centuries to stew on his mistakes and life. Lucys only begun her journey and had already become much more hardened.
I think he meant it in the psychological way. Cooper is someone you would think could not adapt to the wasteland given he is an actor(easy life), yet not only did he survive but he thrived
7:50 Cooper's lucidity and control as a ghoul is emphasized from the moment he's dug out of the ground, with the way he spares the chicken that the other mercs brought along as a test. From minute one to minute done, Cooper's rationality and control are emphasized in contrast to his monstrous actions. So I like this point
I can’t tell you how deeply surprised I am that RU-vid suggested a video from a new channel to me which 1) I was curious enough to watch, and 2) turned out to be an interesting video. I literally can’t recall the last time the RU-vid algorithm managed to throw me something new which was good. Thanks for the video looking forward to more
This is really interesting! Really flew over my head as I watched the show. I'm looking forward to your future video essays and I hope you gain more subs!
Exactly! At a fundamental level, I think Cooper literally viewed himself as what Lucy will become. She is ignorant both to life in the wasteland and the truth behind vault tec, yet as time goes on, she goes through the exact same arc of revelation and realization. Fantastic first video! Can’t wait to see more.
Please do a video on how the 3 main characters got want they wanted most but at great cost, cooper didn’t want to act anymore and dreamed of being a cowboy(which he ended up doing for years as a ghoul), Lucy wanting her father back (which she got at the price of learning the horrible truth about him), and maximums wanting to be accepted by the BoS( which eventually happens after he learns that he doesn’t want that life and would rather spend his life with Lucy)
I won’t lie, seeing all of cooper’s reactions, speech patterns, and hell, even his determination, it all reminds me so vividly of Cyberpunk’s Johnny Silverhand. Just that, instead of how Johnny sort of relies on his hatred and malice of others to cover his own insecurities, Cooper stoped caring about hiding his own. Really well written and the acting of them all is phenomenal
Ok so I just thought of something….. Would love to hear your opinion on it.. So, In the movie “Into the Spiderverse” Miles learns about ‘The Shoulder Touch’ from his Uncle Aron. Through all of Mile’s trials and errors of attempting the suave gesture, Would you say Miles has learned how to perform ‘The Shoulder Touch’ effectively?
This is a BASED take. I have looked through alot of the discussion surrounding this show and i am surprised that you added something new and interesting that enhances my appreciation from the show. I was so close to switching the video early early on but i am extremely happy i continued watching!
The Ghoul is a monster, checklist or not (sorry...but with all due respect..) It was very monstrous of Cooper to use Lucy as bait. Compare that to how reluctant he was to merely fake shooting and killing someone (pre-bombs, still an actor). I think that Cooper's first step into becoming a monster was when he let the environment (the director, specifically) push him towards something he felt was wrong. But he did it. He compromised his morals by doing the scene as the director wanted. Fast forward into his ghoul state and now he's very coldly, arrogantly popping off shots into anyone who even twitches the wrong way. It will be interesting to see if Lucy's act of holding to her morals (giving him the meds) will start to melt the Ghoul backwards towards the original Cooper.
I saw the “I am you” as Cooper having so much derision for the optimist he used to be. He sees that in Lucy. And he simultaneously resents that she will eventually see herself in him
I really enjoyed this video and went to check out more only to see this was the first one. This is done so well and was really enjoyable to watch. I can’t wait to see how you grow!
My interpretation of him watching himself as Cooper the movie star was realizing how he's changed into the character in the movie that ruthlessly kills the guy instead of hesitating and not wanting to kill. He's probably not seen himself like that in quite some time, and it's almost like he "kills" his own past live the way he point his finger like a gun to the tv.
What a great video , I would point out that copper literally is a monster by the time Lucy meets him , I mean physically,so it’s a great expression to use , he’s also spent 200 years living in the waste land so has no problem making the decisions he does . You have to remember the way the bounty hunters treated him a the start of the series too . I’m also gonna use the title of a fave western to describe him , which itself is coincidental because at times fall out feels like a western . He has developed “ true grit”
I’ve watched so much analysis on this show and you were the first one I’ve seen catch this ark. Plus for a 1st upload you did great work! Earned a sub from me can’t wait to see your next video❤️
Ahhhh this is so good!! I absolutely love the arc connection between Cooper and Lucy, and how you explained the beats of the story and their arc in parallel, I didn't catch that at all! As well as the ending part where they became similar in terms of killing the ghoul in mercy aaaaaa! I can't wait to see what you post next!!!!!!! (ALSO ALSO I love your cute lil drawing omg she's adorable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) ALSO I LOVE YOU ❤
I had made the connection that the line was meant to be deeper than on first glance, and that the characters were more connected on their journeys, but had thought it was more about him regaining some of his old self and her losing hers. When instead It does seem like it's more about realizing that they're not changing on a core level. Also just want to say great video and hope my comment helps the algorithm or however this place works.
The fundamental difference is the time frame involved in their assessments. Everyone but the ghoul are talking in the short term whereas he's talking eventually.
Every time Cooper is cruel to Lucy, its also a teaching moment. When she lost the head by not respecting the dangers of wasteland wildlife, she uses her as bait. When she breaks his vials, which were not only for him but to be shared with Roger, she makes her witness the consequences of her mistake. When he loses a finger, he bites one off, and he won't let her drink until she finds her own water somehow and stops being so picky. He's training her for survival each step of the way. I think he thinks of her as family in a way. All those Vaultec employees were his close friends before the war, and while he may feel betrayed by some of them, he knows its not Lucy's fault. It seems like he feels he has to take care of her, and he doesn't have the patience to deal with a slow learner.
I think it's worth noting that though Cooper has the power to take whatever he wants he doesn't. He could have walked into that market and took the drugs at any point.
Great analysis of they way they structured this. You've given me a better appreciation of this work. Before I say the rest of this, I'd like to say when the first trailer dropped I fervently hoped this was what Lucy's arc would look like, and I was overjoyed when the second trailer confirmed it (at least, in my interpretation). Does that make me a bad person? But I could never have predicted how well they'd handle it. I take a very different meaning from a lot of this though, because my foundation isn't literary monstrosity but historical and modern monstrosity. It's understanding the difference between a "bad apple" and a "bad barrel." Typical writing treats monsters as bad apples, and assumes that they are monsters because they are rotten, either as a result of their inherent nature or because they rotted. But the vast majority of real world monsters are the result of bad barrels forcing ordinary people into escalation ladders where each stage becomes slowly normalized allowing them to progress deeper into their potential for cruelty. From the Milgram Experiment to the Holocaust, or Abu Ghraib or Gaza, or the stuff going on in police forces across America, real monstrosity is mostly done by human beings or even whole nations who have mutated their behavior into something they'd never recognize, even though their fundamental nature and values are unchanged. One of the slides from the infamous Kentucky State Police training slideshow says it better than I can: Violence Of Action Ruthlessness without anger. Able to meet violence with greater violence. Controlled aggression without anger. Be the loving father, spouse, and friend as well as the ruthless killer. Real monstrosity is done by people just doing their jobs or just following their in-group as they follow an escalation ladder. I'm not judging Coop, just observing when I say that Coop is what real-world monstrosity looks like. The apocalypse is the ultimate bad barrel. Just because the writers are better at portraying how a person can become a monster without changing what they believe their internal values are than others who've tackled that mission as writers doesn't change what's happening. Using a human being to fish for a monster is monstrous. Mentally separating himself from what he's doing isn't proof he hasn't become a monstrt, it's proof he has. That's _HOW_ ordinary people do horrible things. Coop is out of control. He believes he has to make money to buy vials, to keep from becoming feral. (As another possibility, see the theory video "Is the Ghoul Being Scammed?"). This forces him to do whatever it takes to make caps, putting him in a position to have his values further corrupted.
Let's start a campaign to get the same actors in different stories like American Horror. The people behind this show have shown they are willing to put in the effort and the actors are great. More please!
Omg. That's so funny! I was watching this video earlier today only to have you pop up in that across the spider-verse video pulling me back here. Btw, your segment in that video was very good.
There is also Coop's past. It is heavily referenced multiple times that he was a soldier in the Defense of Alaska. We know Alaska was a brutal engagement that lasted 11 years and forced the US government to also annex Canada. Coop survived that - he never lost his humanity, but he is accustomed to brutality and slaughter, and he understands the difference between needless violence and deliberate action.
In my opinion, Cooper isn’t a monster. He is a man that not only lost everything, but one that saw his wife, the love of his life, as the one that destroyed everything. Cooper was a good man, that lost almost everything and all he has left is a drive for either revenge or answers.
I keep saying it- Lucy is an early-game character and Cooper is a late-game character. Their only difference is how long they’ve been playing the game (literally, in this case). The Ghoul is a total badass… because he’s been playing for so long, and has the endgame perks that have your character doing badass stuff. He’s able to take out a whole squad of power armored knights solo, while Lucy would have no chance of that- because he’s so much further into the game. But they’re still the same player character. They’re just at different points in their stories
Dude, when schnee introduced you on his channel i was so hyped to see your Channel, so i had to watch the whole fallout series and It was worth it xD. Great series, great video, thank you for making it. ❤
The one time Cooper/The Ghoul was out of "control" was during his bender with the chems (and some vodka) that led him to his tapes and then passing out/having flashbacks to his former self. And who was it that triggered all of this? ... LUCY!! God, I love this dynamic so much. So hyped for next season and New Vegas. That's gonna be SO fun!
I think Cooper thinks of himself as a monster, because he looks like one, everyone calls him one, and the wasteland has hardened him. And I think that is why he thinks Lucy will become a monster too. But she doesn't. The wasteland does harden her, but she maintains her honesty and strong morals. But I think her interactions with Cooper may end up affecting him for the better. Her mercy towards him may have opened his eyes that perhaps there is a way to survive in the wasteland, without becoming completely corrupted by it.
Such a cool analysis! Honestly you completely changed a lot of my thoughts on these scenes. Im super excited to see more videos from you! You just got a new sub!! P.S. your little avatar is SO cute! Idk if you drew that but if you did, its great!!
Let’s go by the criteria: Cooper not giving a shit about if a given action is morally wrong doesn’t mean his morals are in control. It means he’s abandoned them. And I would argue he is *definitely* unrecognizable - Prewar Cooper would be mortified at what he’s become. He wants Lucy to become him, yes, but it’s for himself. If she can stay clean in the wasteland, it’d undermine his opinion of himself
I liked the theory, but I'd like to offer up my own on how Cooper views himself. During the scene where he's behind the scenes talking about the movie and shooting Joey, he protests, saying that he doesn't kill the bad guys he just stops and arrests them. The director just brushes him off, but you get a feeling that Cooper pre-war is in the same boat Lucy was in during the mercy kill scene. We get to the scene where he's watching his old movie. And as he watches, it plays almost like it did during filming except that when we expect the screen to show Joey, it shows The Ghoul. Cooper sees himself in both characters, and when pre-war Cooper says "feo, fuerte, y formal I'll give you two out of the three" you can see he considers himself to be someone who has lost his dignity in the pursuit of surviving, and has become the ugly reflection of Cooper Howard.
