True and i think thats why i am starting to like followups too, seeing the enemies die on their own is really fun, since its automatic attacks and seeing 3 characters just attacking one after the other gives me the same vibe of seeing dot damage the enemies.
Yeah, the hp drain archetype was just doa. Nothing can convince me that the blade jingliu synergy was purely coincidental and that there was no archetype planned. Heck I don’t think we even got a relevant new relic set for that type of team.
As someone whose favorite team is DoT, agreed. It's just that Hoyo has been buffing FuA to no end like releasing the 100th FuA relic and 100th FuA DPS or support and ignoring DoT ever since Black Swan released.
Hell I think Black Swan being good for DoT might've been an accident at this point. She works well enough with Acheron I feel like her being good in DoT is an accident.
Yeah as much as i like FuA teams do we really need another tailor made relic set that's like usable for only 1 maybe 2 characters? There's already like 2 FuA relic sets rn and 3 planar sets for follow up attack. We really don't need anymore of it especially since they don't give a bigger upgrade than the last set
its just meta phase, over time they will go back, there will be mobs even breakers and Fua is going suffer, dots will be back, hell they never left i can clear most content with dot teams still.
jiaoqiu isn't supposed to be a dot support in the very beginning btw. hoyo out of pity gave his ashen roast counted as dot burn, it wasn't in beta v1. dot burn was only available on e2
@@rizreighnand6471 Well thats why i and the og comment think it should have been made more for dot, they could have easily made him more dot focus, we know thats not how it turned out but it was possible.
Same. It may be underwhelming right now compared to the best teams, but it’s still good enough to 3 star basically everything. My only 5 star sustain is bailu (praying for aventurine rerun) and I use her or Gallagher for my DoT team and everything goes just fine. I’m not 0 cycling ofc but 3 star is perfectly good for me. And this is what DoT looks like with very limited units, if we get DoT units like FUA has for their main team then DoT is going to be insanely good
@@AndrewNajash Yeah I commented that at like the beginning but further down I was like a support would make total sense. Still now Kafka & BS can clear anything I put in front of them. It may not be Acheron/Feixiao/Firefly numbers, but their healths shoots down the same over time.
@@sydorovich2532Considering the leaks that say that there should be quite a lot nihility characters in 3.x patches we can safely expect a new dot unit.
@@zouupI tend to agree but this past MoC (2.4) my DoT team (E0S0 Huo Huo, E1S1 Ruan Mei, E1S1 Black Swan, E0S0 Kafka) took 5 cycles to clear the choir boss, which is what I'd call bare minimum at this point. Maybe my builds just lack speed, only Black Swan gets over 160 (169 with Ruan Mei) and Kafka doesn't have her LC so caps at 158, but I feel like while the comp still clears, for a "premium team" it's almost to the point where it relies on a second team to pick up slack and could get to that point with the way MoC has been progressing. So that said, it would be nice to see new options come into the fold for the DoT playstyle. It's also been a while since I've had DoT in PF but I wouldn't be surprised at all if we get a DoT buff on the next one due to the current reruns. I did just really enjoy using DoT with Jiaoqiu against Phantylia in the recent AS though, was refreshing tbh.
There are so many potential dot kit that was already in Su/Du. Dot crit(like nahida c2 with bloom), Dot healer that applies dot and heal allies when dot triggers, Dot trigger when ally attack(Kafka's definitely suffering from old unit kit design where as a detonator her multiplier is very underwhelming), or Dot eating away toughness bar corresponding to the element when they triggers.
they just used the dot trigger thing for a buff in AS, and I wouldn't be surprised if we see a DoT buff in the next PF as well, I just hope the slight uptick in attention (as well as the new mechanics from divergent universe) will actually lead to new novel character kits. I've always felt DoT has the potential to be a whole playstyle like FuA rather than just a single premium team.
I feel like we might get a dot support that advances the enemie action. It might sound like something more fitting for a counter archetype, but they've been testing this during events these last patches, so I find it suspicious
DoT's biggest issues are that Kafka/Black Swan both require a little vertical investment to go from 'decent' to 'absolutely cracked', and that they don't have a Dot-centric Harmony unit.
That's literally everything that is a little bit old in HSR at this poiny. And DoT is not even that old. I still think DoT is better than Jingliu and DHIL but that's because it's newer. Next time it will need even more investment.
DoT has a massive ceiling because there isn't a dedicated support and sustain. The issues can all be solved with a support/sustain that allows DoT to crit/do toughness damage/add stacks on ult etc. Ruan Mei is clearly for break and Huohuo is for energy focused units like Yunli/Argenti.
It's "massive ceiling" is a myth. Feixiao floor is already near the "ceiling" of DoT at the baseline in 2 cost vs 2 cost team where she deals 3 times more damage.
@@sydorovich2532Yes, but you can play both and be happy. One does not negate the other and I think Hoyo will release at least a dedicated DoT support in 3.x to maintain some balance between the different archtypes.
@@iNovak-HSR I don't like to play with garbage. DoT never was good, neither 1.2 Kafka edition which was already worse than Seele, nor 1.6 RM addition, which still was worse than JL and Ratio team, nor 2.0 BS edition which was already neg diffed by Sparkle teams in the same patch for the same cost.
@@sydorovich2532 Who are you angry with? Enjoy the game and the characters you like and let other enjoy who they like, it's a game at the end of the day
@@iNovak-HSR Stop shilling dead archetype by ridiculous statements like "massive ceiling". If you enjoy playing mediocre archetypes, it's perfectly fine for you, just don't try to pose them as good/strong. There is huge amount of dot copers currently in community that constantly make ridiculous statements and are out of touch with reality trying to heavily overplay the power of dot archetype in HSR.
cuz 5 months ago we finally got second 5* DoT unit in the whole game - Black Swan, and all content was shifted to DoTs being extremely good for this single patch? Before that and after that DoTs was never "super broken"
because hoyo hates releasing dot characters I can guarantee that if they released more DoT characters (as in 5 stars), DoT would be in a much better place rn, especially if we got a DoT-specific 5 star (not Ruan Mei).
there hasent been a dot focused moc in ages, not even a pf focused one either. we finally got one in the most recent apoc shadow second half but FF/booty out preforms in that mode. its not about powercreep. the content has just been catered to fua, break and debuff for the entirety of penacony aside from BS release.
Pretty sure I heard that 5 star tingyun is gonna be filling this role as a dot support/super break replacing hmc in teams. Her talent apparently is just super break all the time just by her existing in the team rather than hmc only providing through their ult. but other leaks say she’s gonna be a dot support on top of being a super break support. So we will have to see in 2.7
Two SU blessings - DoT Crit and the one that lets everyone trigger DoT, some Speed and DMG increase too, put all together and you have a ready made Harmony for DoT.
As someone who hated every single DoT PF line up, my takeaway is that DoT has another problem and it's accessibility. Its main competitor being FuA doesn't have this issue because we have 2-3 free units who are meta being March, Ratio and Herta while DoT and their supports are all 5*. Characters like Sampo or Gui just don't cut it when DoT always starts and ends with Kafka because if you don't have her, DoT just doesn't work
While we wait on Mihoyo, i have seen something crazy with Wyattskyy. The man has an E6 welt (where the E2 probably mattered the most) combined with Asta. With the idea to delay the mobs as much as possible with Welt, while speed boosting your party with Asta, Allowing blackswan to build up more stacks and Kafka to burst. Just theorycrafting here, so i have no idea what the numbers and effectiveness will be.
I think to make DOT good is to first release a character that can enable all party member to trigger all said DOT upon attacking like how SU nihility blessing is. With this even ur support/sustain is a dps since they can proc dot by attacking the enemies. Currently we have to rely on kafka so much just to trigger the DOT. But kafka can only go so much in 1 cycle. Where if the enemies is too fast or too slow will be bad for DOT.
@@Sansrival1113Why wouldn't you just use kafka along with this theoretical new dot support? A new dot support would fit perfectly in a team with kafka swan and huohuo
Today's DoT might not as broken as newly rise break/follow up team comp, but DoT still can carry you through most of endgame contents while maintaining relatively easy team building. In my opinion, DoT just need a new damage dealer with higher stats/multiplier or support that can amplifies its effect, like how super break amplifies break effect.
Kafka when her job is to “frontload” dots and she fucking frontloads 75k with her skill 🔥🔥🔥 (st btw), insane frontload right there. That’s like 1 Blade eba.
I mean, she frontloads whatever your team stucks there. So with proper support and sustain, maybe even different DMG dealer its going to be different situation
@@miramaxcinemax5512 problem is, because of how they changed her kit in her beta, what kafka herself does is part of what the team sticks there, and based on her kit it should be a sizeable portion, but its not, its pathetic damage. They removed everything in kafkas kit that was support oriented to make her a more self sufficient dps, and that hurts the entire comp. Now everyone but kafka has to do the heavy lifting in dot and kafka is doing significantly less than comparable units in the other comps
im kinda tired with Hoyo patern "lets release a broken unit" "now let's buff them more bcs they are not strong enough" and if they decided to buff the old character who are weak they will buffing them by REPLACING IT, so if you have Eidolon on that character, welp.
It's honestly such a huge slap to the face. Why make her Nihility only to be a superbreak support, they could've just made her Harmony. I have lost hope on DoT, it's just a forgotten archetype at this point because in 3.0, there will be a new archetype that's gonna get all the attention.
The recent AP reset give alot of ideas for future dot sp, they can function like Harmony MC where instead of triggering Super Break when attacking weakness broken enemy, the team trigger all current dots, SU and DU also already have many interesting ideas too like CRIT dots harmony sp or healers who heal by dots
It's easy to see the difference. FUA is versatile on all aspect, it doesn't have the weakness of extra action on people who uses summons (other than JY) Break team actually have a pretty clear weakness since it's inception, fast moving enemies will cripple this team quite hard, try difficulty 6 and up DU and the final boss happen to be Sam, he woke up so fast even with Ruan Mei's Ult stalling him. DOT have the exact opposite weakness of Break, they thrives in enemies that moves fast. They can easily make MOC with that gimmick and break will struggle.
I disagree on your point about fast enemies. The units who will benifit the most from fast attacking enemies are counter-attack units. Namely Yunli, Clara, and to some extent Blade. DOT as it stands struggles against fast units because Black swan needs a couple turns to stack up Arcana to do big damage... Kafka is there to squeeze more out of Arcana as often as possible. So if the enemies are too fast, you can't stack up dot damage effectively outside BS ultimate.
fair points but the opportunity cost for Dot has been good so it is valued fairly to me and not undervalued. Kafka has slayed for over a year and Dot has been able to clear every game mode unless both sides are bad matchups. for older players, you would have had to invest more into top teams so they are expected to perform better.
The only reason I love DoT that it would never get irrelevant. Yes it is 'weaker' right now, doesn't mean it still can't clear everything. While all other teams need a lot of investments, favors and everything in between, the satisfaction of watching DoTs eradicating everything 'eventually' would never stop being fun to watch.
@@yvandiomande5850blade and jingliu are very meta relevant right now imo. Just look at current moc and apoc. Saying this as someone who low cycle cleared with them. 1 cycle for Kafka moc with blade. 3 cycle aven with jingliu. Apoc.shadow was easier
I don't think he'll get any kind of buff. New summons are not equal to follow-ups and Jing Yuan as well as Topaz are both follow-up units, even tho they technically have "summon" in their kit it just doesn't work the same way
@@atomiccore75 I mean we have heard dreams of new summon mechanics so it's not out of the realm of possibility that that we get a character that says something like "summons gain 60% crit dmg"
@@darkhydra4262 Yes, there def will be this kind of characters, but I dont think you understood what I said. Summons are not follow-ups, that's two different mechanics and they obviously dont use same buffs for each other. That's a confirmed info, cuz in 2.6 all terminology in the game will be changed to "party members" instead of "allies" etc, so you won't be able to use current buffs for "allies" with new summon mechanic
JY and Topaz both have summons, just because they also deal fua dmg doesn't mean they won't get buffed by summons buffer. Stating otherwise is just baseless for now because we have extremely limited info about new mechanics @@atomiccore75
Jing Yuan has been underwhelming since his inception. Acheron was the final nail in the coffin for his use cases. His primary issue is how Lightning Lord (we'll call him L-lord for short) works. No matter how many turns you give Jing Yuan, no matter how many ults he can throw out, no matter how much you buff him up, the L-lord will only strike once per cycle. It's a design flaw on a fundamental level. He would need to be changed in a way that allows L-lord to act more frequently. Either by rewriting his talent to allow L-lord to act immediately upon gaining 10 stacks, (which they probably won't do) or introduce a support that can advance summons, which is much more probable.
Since Robins release, we have gotten 10 new characters. 6 of them is follow up focused, 2 is break focused, and Lingsha is a mix of the two. Real mystery why every other archetype in the game fell off.
if Hoolay's speed becomes a norm, it will also fuck Acheron and Ratio(outside the FUA comp). Unless you run 200 spd SW/Pela with Vonwack + Wind set, Acheron and Ratio are gonna start hitting enemies that are not debbufed. Jiaoqiu might be the only debbufer that can keep up
The developers usually test new mechanics during events. Such as a boss focused event that turned into Apocalypic Shadow, or a Simulated Universe with crazy buffs, that turned into Divergent Universe. Recently they've been teasing us with a possible new summon mechanic, but they've also tested (at least twice) DoT but with a mechanic to advance the enemie action. So I think this might really be a future character kit they are testing.
Fast moving enemy is not a problem for DoT, it's a Black Swan problem while making Kafka redundant. If the enemies are already extremely fast, would you rather improve your overall damage or squeeze in an extra turn worth of damage with Kafka? It's the same debate as ATK vs SPD. Making DoT CRIT does absolutely nothing since you can't add CRIT on your relics due to EHR req. The DU Equation is the biggest scam in the world due to how Critical Boost work. I can see a new DoT character that doesn't need stacking while making the enemies even faster.
The problems about DOT team are: 1.Kafka's shocked debuff lasts only 2 turns that why Mr.Pokke told that 200+speed mobs gonna ruin it because they're too fast to let Kafka reset the debuff. 2. As for Black swan's Arcana resets every time mobs move unless using her ult on them. If the mobs too fast we really having trouble stacking Arcana to do more DOT damage. What characters we need to fix or upgrade DOT team? 1. A character that enable crit DOT(A harmony one is better since already have Kafka and BS) 2. A substain character that DOT focus (Preservation character will be better as they protect their team from 1 shot by mobs charged skills) 3. A character that infilct DOT that cannot be cleanse by mobs like Boss bronya does (maybe more new mobs that cleanse their debuff in the future who know for now there only one)
i think one archetype they are sleeping on is break dots. this mechanic has literally been abandoned by the devs. it would be interesting revive this mechanic
I think what I like most is that despite DoT not receiving the same love as FUA, hypercarry or breaks, it still just thrives to this day as a solid team.
I kinda hope we don’t get a dot support that allows dots to Crit as some have been saying. Dot has always been heralded as an alternative to Crit scaling damage-dealers, so just allowing them to Crit feels like a cop out and makes team building feel more homogeneous. I’d rather see a support that adds dot damage vulnerability or something. Just saying “Surprise! They can Crit now!” Feels so antithetical to dot’s design philosophy imo
People doom post on DoT while the archtype still clear anything with no mode's buffs. If anything DoT is strong as is and we just see it function without bias.
Dot has so many options to improve. HSR has only scratched the surface compared to what other games have done, we only have basic dot, stacking dot and detonate. Besides the obvious of enabling crits or specific vulnerabilities, you can have ramping dots that progressively do more with each tick, dots that do massive damage and expire after x number of ticks, dots that scale with the number of debuffs, dots that scale with the number of enemies its applied to, and the list goes on. Any of these could easily be either a relic set or kit based. You could even do a dot/follow up hybrid and have a summon that gets advanced forward for every x number of dot ticks the enemy takes. On a side note, does replacing Ruan Mei with Acheron on a dot team make it not a dot team anymore? Its still the same core dot team, but instead of the support buffing the dots the dots buff the support.
I agree, but only within a very certain set of restraints. As you said, we're not counting any hyper carry team comps like blade or Argenti. We're also not counting any team comps outside of the big 3 (FUA, super break, and DOT). So yeah, within those very narrow constraints, DOT is the worst of the big 3.
I have been pulling for the premium dot team and investing in it since the start of the game and its good but a huge amount of resin and pulls were needed at this point in the game its probably more worth it to invest in other teams
Hypercarry carry mean Single damage dealer with two or three supports, so Acheron and Bootyhill are Hypercarries, even Dhildo can still dish out a million damage. In a SB team everyone deals damage, but Firefly is the dedicated Dealer and amounts to 75% of it, so she's technically one too.
Yunli easily deals almost double amount of DOT damage for the same cost in her hypercarry team. E2 DHIL destroys DOT for the same cost and he is 1.3 unit. Ratio does it too in his hypercarry team, are you talking about 1.2- units?
The problem with the dot archetype is they have not released a unit since 2.0. Every archetype has had multiple releases since then, especially FUA which is why they ate the best right now. As soon as they telease a harmony unit that buffs dot damage they will be good again since the current supports buff weakness break or crit which are not effective enough on DoT.
I recently invested in DoT (Pulled E0S1 Kafka and E1S0 Black Swan) and have zero regrets. I take it as an investment into the future for their playstyle. When we get Obsidian, I think opinions will shift back to it being a great team
DOT had its time in the spotlight, hyv is providing support to the other archetypes right now, but the constantly increasing demand for a higher power level means that the gap is getting wider faster.
My guess is after the FuA units are done, we're gonna get a wave of only dot focused characters maybe entering 3.0. There are so many units that can be made with unique mechanics that it almost seems like a gold mine at this point.
We should call it a Kafka team instead of dot because she's the only necessary part. It would be nice if the actually made true dot characters that encouraged the use of multiple dots and made exploding attacks optional instead of being the only way.
DoT faces 2 issues 1) A great nihility could be stolen by acheron team 2) because of point 1, the next DoT is going to be a crazy dot specific unit, which will make DoT insanely strong, therefore all other teams need to be strengethed before making DoTs super OP again. After kafka drop, DoT were OP, after BS drop DoT was OP. DoT is one character away from being back up with the strongest teams.
Fixing DoT is extremely easy. All they have to do is release a bunch of DoT units that synergize just like what they did with FUA. They need to release a DoT sustain, a DoT buffer, etc. Also more new 5 star DoT units means more DoT buffs in end-game content shifting the meta completely.
Yesterday I got Feixiao, Kafka and Black Swan together within 170 pulls, winning all 3 50/50 and getting E6 Moze in the process. I'm very lucky that I can play two of the best DPS (Feixiao anf Firefly) and also invest in my favorite character (Kafka). I will also be ready for when Hoyo decides to release a DoT dedicated support. All F2P btw.
Black Swan was the last dot nihility that came out and that was on release of Penacony (2.0) its been 5 patches ever since. It has been nothing but destruction, erudition and hunt characters. FUA and Break are meta. Heck even Acheron only has one bis support for her playstyle. Yes dot needs more love man
Its easy really...your Team is underwhelming when the current units and such the current endgame content dont support it. HSR not only buffs specific teams...they destroy others.
I'm convinced HSR has really bad balancing system and powercreep. Last time Destruction was meta and people praise it, but that's just because they're newer than Seele and JY. And people cling to this idea. Then DoT came and became the new meta, then Acheron came, and now break and hunt FUA. Every archetypes better than the last one. The fact that people used to think destruction was best and now hunt is the best (Feixiao, Boothill) just points to when was that unit released, it is the powercreep pattern. They don't even make good accessibility to DoT, they never release any other DoT units, 4 star or 5 star means really bad balancing.
I think DoT needs a 5 star Luka, someone that can abuse bleed and can make break bleed stay longer. One of the highest DoT dmg is BH bleed that does like 70K+dmg but it only stays for 2 turns. So someone that can do the same DoT dmg and make it stay longer like how Serval does to shock.
I suspect Hoyo are just saving the release of a dedicated DoT support/preserve unit for the future, since the team managed very well for a long time without much support...
Solution for the enemy speed problem: WELT + RUAN MEI SUSTAIN!!!! Ok I’m kind of joking but I was able to 3 cycle current moc first half with ruan mei, welt, black swan, and kafka.
Question: WHAT IF DOT ALSO GOT A BE MUTLIPLIER? AND ALSO REDUCES TOUGHNESS? this would allow Xueyi to become even better Would allow for Superbreak DOT support to be a thing/option for Hoyo Also, I've said this somewhere before, and I'll say it again: Nihility Physical 5* unit (OBSIDIAN PERHAPS?) whose DoT also heals while dealing dmg? AND IT SCALES OFF THE DoT DMG DEALT? NIHILITY QUANTUM UNIT WHO CAN DEAL DoT WHERE QUANTUM BREAK DMG MULTIPLIER GET EXTRA MULTIPLIER AND DEALS EXTRA DMG PER AMOUNT OF DoT? IMAGINARY HARMONY UNIT WHO BUFFS ALL DAMAGE THAT IS INFLICTED ON TARGET BASED ON THEIR ATK, BUFFS SPD EVEN MORE THEN RM, AND MAKES IT SO THAT DoT SLOWS ENEMY SPD WHICH WILL ALLOW FOR EXTRA DoT APPLICATION (maybe, this will probably have to scale on EHR of this hypothetical unit imo) NIHILITY ICE UNIT THAT CAN FREEZE ALL ENEMIES AFTER A CERTAIN EHR WHILE NOT BREAKING THEM? SUPER DOT HARMONY UNIT THAT ALLOWS DoT'S TO CRIT BASED ON THAT UNIT'S CRIT VALUE? ABUNDANCE OR PRESERVATION UNIT THAT CAN DEAL DoT? Hoyoverse is just sleeping on DoT. I swear on my life that Kafka would have gotten more buffs by now if I was in charge of new 5* and 4* units back before 2.0
