The Most Valuable Addition To The Female Space Marine Debate 

Fun facts about Alex Evans from his own bio: "speaks (mostly) fluent German" "failed his cycling proficiency test twice" "believes all things are political" "He has a degree in Politics and a Master’s in International Journalism" In other words, THAT kind of person.

He's just so tired of all this. He just doesn't think the argument has value anymore. He only wants you to give up and let him corrupt your hobby. Gatekeep. Ever vigilant. Ever ready.

And thus Sargon, with a single twit, demonstrated the old Chinese saying: "To find the snakes, strike the grass."

Setting: Everyone dies horribly, everything is hostile and a peaceful life and death are nigh impossible Unthinking mass of equity: We want women to experience this

"The game _needs_ female spa-"[BLAM!] "Huh, Commissar Barch is quick on the draw today." "Yeah, he's had _a lot_ of practice by now."

If this writer thinks that the current state of 40k with regards to female Space Marines is a "cesspit", from which "foul things" arise, I think I speak for a lot of the fanbase when I say "Praise Nurgle, cleanliness is blasphemy!"

As a former Star Wars, Star Trek and Doctor Who fan I say to the Warhammer 40k fandom stay strong and gatekeep, gatekeep with everything you got clown on them with no quarter and no mercy.

" I want rocks to be soft." "No."

It's never about "attracting a wider audience", quite the opposite in fact, it's about forcing people who disagree with their agenda to either submit to them or retreat (whereupon they will be followed and the process will repeat). This won't stop until you plant your feet in the ground and refuse to budge.

"...and longing for a big, strong, gold-armored daddy to tell them what to do." It's embarasing when a grown man is using this kindergarten tactic of "it's because your pp smol" to win an argument.

These tourists are real-world genestealers. Gatekeep my brothers and sisters. No matter what comes through it, hold the line!

Helpful reminder wokies have representation in the form of Warhammer Chaos.

"it's okay for things to be made for boys. Yes, even teenage boys." so true.

Tolerance and apathy is the final cries of civilizations, societies, cultures, clubs, organizations and hobbies right before they perish. Barrier to entry makes people much more appreciative and protective of group and organization they join.

Acknowledging that the lore is unappealing to their sensibilities and that the fandom's gatekeeping is effective, calls to GW to let them change everything

You're right, this is one of the most valuable additions to this "debate". One read is enough to make you want to gatekeep with all your might!

We have female Space Marines. Theyre called Sisters of Battle and theyre cool af. They have their own look, lore, symbols etc. They are infinitely better than putting a woman in the same old armour for the sake of gender nonsense.

*"The force is female"* Enough said.

"Those who are determined to be 'offended' will find a provocation somewhere. We cannot possibly adjust to please the fanatics and it is degrading to make the attempt." - C. Hitchens, Tourists Conflagirator.

They want your hobby. They don't want one of their own, they want YOURS. Not one like yours, not to be a part of yours, but YOURS- they want to take it from you.

Space marines are the Lost Boys of the 41st millennium. Space marines are very deliberately evocative of a specifically male teenage power fantasy. And it explores both the good and the bad sides of that fantasy - supreme strength and the inability to father a family; the "joy" and "glory" of endless war and the severing of all connections to ordinary humanity, and the dark roads that can lead you down; and immortality, never having to worry about old age sapping your strength.

If youve read up on Critical Theory as much as I have, calling these people irl Chaos Cultists is not inappropriate or inaccurate.

As a refugee from Star Wars, Star Trek (other major franchises that too were once 'fascist'), I am very grateful for the relative refuge provided by 40K. Thank you for the work that you do to gatekeep political activists from this beloved hobby.

The projection in this article is insane, don't give them an inch!

8:00 Him insisting his opposition must be mentally unwell is the most annoying form of passive aggressiveness I see a lot online. (The whole “who hurt you” schtick)

There are female inquisitors, assassin's, knight pilots, titan pilots.. the Tyranids are essentially a matriarchy.. there are female mechanicus. Female necrons. Female kin fighting for the leagues of voltan. I'm pretty sure there are female models for every faction aside from space marines lol even custodes have sisters of silence backing them up. There's 0 reason from an ideological perspective to argue for female space marines as females are more than represented throughout the game, the models and the lore. And the sorates are an all female faction too! There's an all male faction..and an all female faction...sounds like equality to me.

Id rather have the Eldar get more lore and models rather than more space marine anything. At least GW is sane enough to ignore these weirdos and grifters

He is exhausted, dispirited, and bored of the argument. Good, we (40k fans) are pushing them back. Don't stop now, I feel a second wind under our wings, but they too are likely to redouble their efforts or attempt a new strategy. Stay vigilant brothers.

I had a conversation with this type of person once. I remember the comversation going something like: "Me: If you dislike these movies (we were discussing MCU) so much why do you care about them? Her: I DONT care about them. Me: But i do! Her: But you shouldnt either. " Shit blew my mind. Its not just that they have no interest in our hobbies, they want us to have no interest or enjoyment in our hobbies either.

where did this "it's for everyone" mantra start? No it's not for everyone, very few products are for everyone. Coke isn't for people that prefer Pepsi, and if both companies kept removing things from their products that offend others they'd end up with tap water.

Games Workshop should only focus on two things... 1. Make more Warhammer 40K content consistent with the lore thus far 2. Making their price point less absurd If they do these things they will make infinite money. They should not do these things... 1. Make Warhammer woke 2. Continually increase their price point If they do these things they will go broke. Its very simple. Like purging heretics, no exceptions, no problems.

Arch, something you should touch on about the fem marines argument is how they always have to shit on the Adeptus Sororitas to call them not good enough to try and justify the fem marines. Just a nice bit of irony from the progs.

Wasn't there a certain innovative chaos space marine; warsmith Honsou who demonstrated what happens when you attempt to insert geneseed into a human female? The daemonculaba he called it, the female with the geneseed inside was essentially reduced to a giant, wide, and immobile reverse birthing chamber where captive adolescent MALES are sewn inside. What would come out the other end had a 1 in 4 chance of being an astartes, with the other 3 being abominations to the god emperor and probably the chaos gods too. Even with pulling the 5 star ultra rare space marine, it would have no flesh, being essentially a skeleton with an exposed central nervous system and internal organs, requiring the fat, muscle and skin of other male captives. And if you're already queasing at the thought of having to use human play doh to make the inside out marines outside in, these bio reactors that would make a plague marine rediscover his sense of disgust can forcibly extract genetic material of fully matured astartes, living or dead, just ask the ultramarines 4th company captain uriel ventris. If any tourist even tries to bring up FSM, just pull out honsou, look them dead in the eyes and say to them "here is what you are asking for"

"FSMs aren't inherently a very big deal". This shows clearly that their motivation is not that they have a legitimate issue with the lore. This is all about power. You could imagine how they would be if GW surrendered and gave them FSM. It would be daily "Shut up Nasties, Warhammer is ours now and now we plan to turn it into a version of 'Queer as Folk' and there is nothing you can do about it. Now get rid of Sisters of Battle (they have never heard of Adeptus Sororitas) because they look too much like women and FSM are better than them anyway. Take that Nasties!

The Adeptus Sororitas are badass, great lore, varied, powerful, also hold the line and have Saints and now some seriously awesome models (better than Primaris if you ask me)...so why are these asshats so desperate to have female space marines. This is proof that no matter what they demand, it will never be enough and they always want more and more. We need to gate keep like it's the fucking Eternity Gate itself.

Funny thing is, if they wanted to make a push for the Sororitas or the Sisters of Silence to get more central roles, they would encounter EXPONENTIALLY LESS resistance. Most of “Chudhammer” would be genuine unlikely allies in that regard. But no. The “Star Wars” treatment it is.

2:50 What you are describing is called PilPul. It's a tactic whereby instead of trying to defeat you with arguments and logic they simply try to tire and wear you out instead, since it takes more energy for you to debunk them then it does them just spouting off bullshit.

For me the Emperor wanted his marines to guard humanity not replace them. This is much of why he made them only male with a less efficient reproductive method than baseline humans. The story will need to be vastly changed to accommodate female marines. I like the story where the Emperor loved humanity more than his own creations and did much to protect us even from his own works.

He drinks lager while in the bath. Has a degree in politics and a Masters in International Journalism. He apparently can't ride a bike to save his own ass. Also admits that everything is political to him. Tells me all I need to know.

Gatekeep. Gatekeep. GATEKEEP. GATEKEEP!

Straight up being fully honest for once. I'm impressed that Mr. Evans had the cojones to do so to begin with. Now if only the rest of the tourists can do the same. And, really, these freaks don't care about the hobby. To quote the Drinker, they're only in it for THE MESSAGE.

inb4 wokehammer starts claiming this article is "controlled opposition" or "he's a plant"

I really hate when these people try to use me as a shield or claim to speak for me. No fucker, you DON'T speak for me and do not PRESUME to. I do not need to feel safe at community events with other plastic addicts. The question is not "How to protect my feelings?" but "How can I maneuver my forces in a optimal manner to achieve victory?" The idea behind joining a hobby is because you have interest in it. It makes you happy and you want to share that with like-minded people. You change to fit the hobby, not the other way around.

Simple answer, buy some Adeptus Sororitas, paint them Yellow buy an Imperial fists codex and claim you're going to play by those rules and get thrown out of every tournament you try to play them in while everybody laughs at you.

I don't care at all about representation. I just wanna be entertained.

Yep... The utter joy of having someone admit they care nothing for your hobby, what it is, and openly admitting they want it changed just to see it changed and will not give a damn if it succeeds or not. Like someone making a train crash not to test anything, but because they wanted a train to crash regardless of if it was empty or full of people.

So even if we take his argument at face value that "adding female space marines will increase women in the hobby" the counter argument is in the player population of League of Legends. There, it was discovered that 1. Men will play male or female characters at about 50% of the time 2. Women will play female characters 97% of the time and 3. The majority of new characters made were female because they would inevitably end up being played the most. Therefore, we can surmise that female players who get into 40k will only play completely female factions, and will totally avoid male factions almost entirely. Making space marines 50/50 male to female wouldn't increase female player numbers, but would have no discernible effect on the male players. So if they wanted to increase the number of women, GW would have to make more all female only factions. Because women are surprisingly sexist in practice, if not in theory.

To be a fan is to be inherently conservative. You became a fan of something because of what it is. There can be some wiggle room but by and large you want that thing to remain, to some extent, the same. If you want to change fundamental aspects of the franchise, rewrite its history, or do logical backflips to justify a change then you were never really a fan, you were a tourist that showed up, liked the local culture but still demanded a mcdonald's and a starbucks.

It's hilarious how obvious the author of this article is, despite trying so hard to bury it under a mountain of words

Glad you covered this Arch! Knew you would, but glad it came out so fast! This article from the Wargamer was so hilariously bad faith and ironically honest about the true motivations behind the push. Directly saying it's not about gender, it's about space marines being the poster boy faction. Thus they are officially admitting it was never about "RePrEsEnTaTiOn!" as they once bellowed like hoarse hags, it was always about control. About manipulation. About planting a flag and claiming territory.

"...anyone who berates you for trying to insert politics...dogmatically ignorant...cynically pushing their own politics...but their views don't amount to a hill of beans" Great, thanks for voicing exactly how I feel about you and your argument, Mr. Wargamer Article Writer. Maybe take your own advice some time, kiddo.

Sisters of Battle use 90% of Space Marines' weapons and vehicles. The Woke do not considered them as Female Space Marines

Remember to gatekeep. Be as hostile as you can or be destroyed like other hobbies.

as a female 40K fan I will riot if GW makes female space marines i have never felt unsafe in the warhammer Community i don't care that they are a male only group, as a matter fact its the only reason why i like them. the space wolves, the iron snakes i like them all even the traitor legions have Characters that are awesome.

THEY NEVER DEMAND MALE SORORITAS

"Everything is political" is such a tell. So too, is the obligatory dig at religion. He's clearly got a religion, and that religion is "everything is political".

Real 40k fan are super anal about the smallest detail on even the model of lasgun used by a guard regiment. The tourist says it's all fantasy it can be made up and changed at will

I like how the main argument is "stop resisting my vicious polical left bullshit"

Its not that 40k is becoming more popular, its that all the other scifi and fantasy titans have fallen so hard that only the smaller pillars of the genres remain. A sapling seems tall when the rest of the forest is flattened. But 40k fans are giving the anti fans that want to burn down everything what they want: a crusade. these eternal victimhood chasers seek fun, but rather enjoy anything they've sought internet virtue. To seem virtuous they must have a villain, and that's why everything for the past 10 years everything is ist and phobic. Even if we laid down and let 40k die, they'd just march on to the next thing to get their jollies on. Battltech? the elric saga? some other minor franchise that hasn't gotten attention yet? A 15 year old manga they just found out about? when there's finally no more IPs to burn they'll go back to attacking politicans, governments, and modern entertainment. Because for them, the quest for imaginary virtue never ends. Like a junkie chasing his next dose of heroin.

When I saw this debate on twitter and I saw the guy sargon quoted as going "But they aren't the flagship!" When someone mentioned that they had sisters of battle, something occurred to me and I think its a pretty good argument. What these people argue for is essentially the equivalent of bitching that there are no male sailorscouts in sailormoon. Can you fucking imagine? No one: "Omg why aren't there any male sailor scouts?!" Hypothetical sane person: "Cause they are all women, but you have tuxedo mask." No one: "but that isn't the flaggshipppp!" Arch is absolutely right. Its about grabbing power, and taking the the most popular and iconic part of a property and twisting it into your own image for your own purposes.

This is why we should Gatekeep these Communists out of our hobbies.

The best thing about this article is that his cover image for the article is a loyalist/chaos split image of an ALPHA LEGION MARINE.

Arch put it right when this came up last time, it’s not that they want female space marines, they want a female to be on the front cover of the 40k franchise, and since the space marines are the most popular, they want female space marines

I lost Star Wars, the Witcher and Marvel. The only thing left is 40K, I gonna fucking die on this hill

One can argue that letting "woke ideology" influence Warhammer 40k is comparable to giving in to the influence of the Chaos Gods.

The whole "why are we talking about it, it doesn't matter. Now listen to me screech about it" reminds me of Kathrine Tate "you think I'm bothered?"bit.

Next time someone argues for FSM, offer this challenge: “Give me a lore-related reason why the Imperium would spend the time and resources to make Female Space Marines before they spent the time and resources to make it so a vast majority of Men could be made Space Marines.”

I hope GW understands while tofu burgers are for everyone, changing the fan-favourite beef recipe now will diminish their current customers. A man who chases two rabbits catches none.

Imagine being someone who sees a hobby, doesn't like a considerable amount of things about it, and instead of just being normal and walking away to find something of actual interest, you take time to try and change that hobby to where it's unrecognizable. Makes no sense.

Don't ever let people sell you the lie that "Anti-woke = alt-right". As someone who has actively engaged both alt-righters and socialists to the point where the completely burned me out on politics, I believe I am more than qualified to declare that equation to be utter nonsense at best and malicious lies at worst.

The only prejudice I have ever seen in the real WH40k community is purely over army choice and even then it was just banter...unless it was Tau, I meant every word.

As a person with breasts and a vagina I can say whole heartedly I LOVE 40k as it is, if I want to see representation of my gender in 40k I enjoy sisters of battle or silence, i for some reason have a rather wokie friend who has brought this up and I shut her down by pointing this out then told her to leave my hobbies basic and most foundational lore alone and if she wants people to pander to her then get away from a universe that is nothing but WAR and we will fight till death to keep it in its glorious state, this community is probably the only one left that can defend against these people, our bolsters and lazrifles shall never run dry. FOR THE EMPEROOORRRRRR

If people want to make a MLP army in W40k by their own or friend group go ahead, want orc space marines? Go ahead, you want the emperor to be a pink pug go ahead, do what you want in your own fanfiction set but dont expect it to be part of the main lore 😑

You know what's funny? I've seen four girls in a discord group I'm in basically dive into the hobby, but they aren't even looking at the Sororitas (the faction that initially was for girls coming in at first), instead, one's chaotic bean who wants to WAAAAAAGH!!, another is very much a Necron through and through though she admittedly started as a Coggirl, the military brat of the bunch is absolutely an Imperial Guard Stan, and the last one has all of us VERY concerned because she's looking at the Drukhari and Slaaneshi Forces and giggling. I'm a guy from South Africa, and I'm the die hard Sororitas (Ebon Chalice are the best girls) fan of the group (well, the Raven Guard and Craftworld Ulthwe also have a place in my heart). Identity politics? What's that? Is it tasty? Can you eat it?

If the Emperor wanted female SM, he would have made female Matriarchs. But he knew that all of them would have fallen to chaos as soon as they were told they were special.

When the Dark Eldar arrive to tell you what youre doing wrong and how they can fix it; you shut the door.

I don’t think GW is willing to lose money with their historic and current business practices.

No the gate must remain firmly closed at all times. If they got their Fem-Marines the next thing may be "So when are we getting an Empress of Mankind? When is that happening?" 🙄

I find it amusing they reeee at the top of their keyboards and conveniently omit existence of Adepta Sororitas. The best way to get the entire kerfuffle to end would be for GW to tell complainers to go play with nuns with guns. Sororitas are, essentially, what they've been egging on, Astares (minus mutations) but with tits. Semi on topic. I find it amusing that women only spaces or women friendly elements are constantly being introduced, but men cannot have the same treatment, something similar to the famed mancave. The place for a man to retreat, yet, often women will find a way to complain that a given man dares to have a small space to himself in which he'd like to have things organised his way. I've seen and heard this far too many times for comfort.

Brothers! We must combat this incursion of chaos!

I would like to point out that in the setting, because of Slanesh, deviancy is Chaos-aligned Ya know, the destruction of the human race So…

These people keep trying to hold a metaphorical gun to GW head, not realizing we, the fans, have been doing that for years and ours is loaded.

As a once proud member of the Star Wars fandom…hold the line my 40K brothers! For the Emperor!

Using geneseed on females has been tried in universe. It results in violent mutation and death without fail. Chaos managed to make use of this however, the result of this was the Daemonculaba.

Yep, it really does come down to 'i want this, so make it so' forever. I still think the greatest argument against it is that it doesn't make sense to do it, in or out of universe. Not only would the compatibility be just lower, you'd get worse soldiers and from a purely pragmatic sense, a woman who can birth say, a dozen children is far more valuable than one female space marine(and the rest of the dead women who competed to be her) Changing 40k to the point it isn't 40k will just destroy it, and then they won't care about representation and all that because it won't be popular anymore.

It’s never about inclusion, it’s about domination. They have seen how this kind if thing turns off not only fans but people in general and they keep doing it anyway

There's no "arguments over Slaanesh'es pronouns". Back in 1987 GW published a book where they remarked that Slaaneshi cultists use the pronoun "shem" for their god. To my knowledge, this is the first use of a neopronoun.

"Haven’t you been able to catch their theme song - ‘Give up, give up, give up, give up’ ? Look at the moral atmosphere of today. Everything enjoyable, from cigarettes to sex to ambition to the profit motive, is considered depraved or sinful. Just prove that a thing makes men happy and you’ve damned it. That’s how far we’ve come. We’ve tied happiness to guilt." The Fountainhead.

Arch your awesome man I got into 40K because of you and been binge watching your lore vids. I don't want people to come in and ruin this awesome hobby. KEEP THESE PEOPLE OUT!!!

Prodos made a variety of female marines and female Nurgle units. They tanked super heavily. The F-marines had removable chest plates to cater for the tastes of many groups and yet again it failed. They tried to cater to this group and got burned.

Imma just say this- wanting so badly for Female Space Marines is just blatant disrespect to the Adeptus Soriritas.....WHO ARE the defacto female "Space Marines". We have them already! They're cool! They're badass! They're inspiring to everyone giving the message of hope to the people of the Imperium and death to her enemies. FFS! They have a giant space cathedral they can drop from fkin ORBIT! playing organ music as tanks with flamers roll out- WHAT MORE DO THESE PEOPLE WANT?!

I guess "tourist" really is the best word. Adepta Sororitas are one of the best factions if you have fire&faith, and the Anathema Psykana might be acutely cooler than even the Custodes. There is every argument to be made against women Adepta Astartes, but hey, Irda and Astarta exist now... so, worry is valid.

By the throne i miss the days when corporations just wanted to make money and didn’t need everything to be some kind of social message or virtue signal

I was a 14 year old boy, now I'm a 14 year old boy with the disposable income of a fifty year old man. GW should think very carefully about who they want as fans, they should be looking for the wide eyed, excited 14 year old, that's still lurking in the hearts of most fifty year old men.

I love how some fandoms have a natural immune/resistance to tourists.

While playing a match last night someone came in with about 2k worth of marines. He was selling about half his army because he had a bit too much. A little later his gf came in and he pointed where the used models are for her to look at. Dude sold half his crap to get his lover into the hobby. She went for sisters of battle

His argument can be summed up as "Youre a meanie if you dont change for my point of view".

We can't change othet people's hobby and THAT is problematic.

These are the same people that supports the kid adventure spin-off, gatekeep not matter what.

I SAY NO TO Female Space Marine!!! ✊✊✊