@@toxiccan175 and then it will turn out some evil male lion stole her authority and everything good in the pride lands was from her great and wise leadership while all the problems came from the men who ruined everything ... or some bullshit like that.
Holy shit. A prequel nobody wanted being invalidated by the original story is some Shakespeare level drama. "What killed it? The very story it comes from."
Remember what else happened in that scene: Pumbaa gives a scientifically accurate description of what stars are, and they all have a big laugh at Simba for believing in anything that isn't science.
@@funkydiscogodI don’t think they were laughing for believing in something that wasn’t science, because they didn’t laugh at Timon. Timon believed the stars were fireflies that got stuck on “that big black thing”.
@@revenantronin8377All 3 animals are mammals. All 3 animals experience emotions. All 3 are capable of laughing. If you're going to go with that line of argument at least be consistent
@@aaronwishard7093 What line of argument? I'd like for you to elaborate on what you think my argument is because you clearly misunderstood what I was saying completely lol.
They killed any hype for this movie by making Mufasa an outsider to the royal family; they don't realize that justified Scar's grudge. If Mufasa earned rulership of the kingdom, than why does Simba automatically inherit it then? That definitely solidifies Scar's resentment, and makes Mufasa hypocritical as well. You can't keep doing this brain dead retconning, Disney!
If you look how the Jedi are treated in the Acolyte this good guy retconning to villain and villain being just a misunderstood victim seems to be by design. This is what happens when (talentless) nihilists write for established and beloved franchises.
The royal family is just a reference to lions themselves. They are the 'kings' of the animals as apex predators. This specific royal family is just a reference to the pride that lives at Pride rock, and the land around it which is where the hunt. While Mufasa could certainly be the first lion to establish a pride at that location, he would still be noble. All male lions are noble. Saying he isn't noble is like saying he wasn't a lion.
@@legiran9564Wouldn't be surprised if the next move is Disney making a Scar movie where Scar was actually the rightful king the whole time, and it was those nasty lions unwilling to let "progress" happen that led to the degradation of the pridelands
You could easily make it so that Scar messed up his chance to be king. We say how things went in the actual movie after he became ruler. And then maybe Mufasa steps up to the plate in a time of crisis where Scar couldn’t.
I guess they’re just going to ignore that whole “great kings of the past” thing that comes up several times in the original movie? An unbroken line of generational royalty spanning so far back that it fills the night sky…
It is worse than that, since in this context 'king' is just a reference to lions being the apex predator an area. The movie is just set in the hunting grounds of a specific pride of lions. All male lions are nobility in the setting, so saying Mufasa doesn't have a drop of noble blood, is basically saying he isn't a lion.
Legends say that even to this day, Chatto is still in search of the modern audience. The unifer story sounds pretty cool. Mufasa meeting all the different animal groups and uniting them together like some animal kingdom Civilization game. But since Disney hates unity, this would be the last option they choose.
The Chosen One trope works in ambiguity. Some ways to do this that could work: 1. Question if the protagonist is really the Chosen One. Leading to a journey of self discovery. It's why the trope works in Kung Fu Panda and The Matrix. 2. The prophecy deems the Chosen One a representative or leader in a conflict, but the prophecy doesn't guarantee victory, just the conflict. 3. The prophecy is conditioned by the Chosen One's behavior. Leading to tests of the Chosen One's character. I'm sure there are more ways, those are from the top of my head.
yeah, the Chosen One works better if it is not specific to that one person, and/or is a "Big Shoes to Fill" story, where the character struggles with the expectations of being the Chosen One, Aang from The Last Airbender is an example of the latter, where he struggles the entire series about the responsabilities of being the Avatar, to leading him to flee his people, that one time he let his fame get up to his head, to his hesitation in condemming to death a tyrant that threats the entire world.
Eh, I would prefer that. Sarabi barely got any screentime in the original, and didn't even appear in the 2nd. She's one of the most grounded characters from what little screentime she had, with the scene with her standing up to Scar being a highlight.
Old Disney: Appeal to children, so they grow up into the adults that will introduce Disney to their kids. New Disney: Appeal to adults, so children will grow up to think of Disney as "That thing their parents liked for some reason."
To be fair, Disney did try appealing to teens/adults in the past (most of their 80s stuff, Touchstone Pictures, Hollywood Pictures, that period of time where they owned Miramax, Atlantis The Lost Empire, and Treasure Planet).
@hafirenggayuda True. A bit of a correction though, most of the Touchstone, Hollywood Pictures, and Miramax stuff weren't aimed at kids at all. Some of them even had R-ratings.
@@debbieganger I'm talking about the nostalgia bait. When the entire point of your movie is to remind adults of their childhood, the actual children get left out. The children that watched Mulan took their kids to see the remake, the children that watched the Mulan remake aren't gonna take their kids to see the next Mulan remake.
@@LiteratureDevil Don't bother wasting your time on that film. I tuned out after 10 minutes. It was that uncompelling. If lions in REAL LIFE could look better and have better facial expression than a CG cartoon that cost $260 million in 2019, that's the definition of failure. I find it laughable that the director of this flick was seen by Star Wars fanbois as the savior of the SW franchise. 🤣
@@LiteratureDevilDemocrat here!!! Exactly!!! Japan will never forsake their culture and heritage why? Because they understand basic story structure and characters. Something we here in America have abandoned because of an annoying minority who are never satisfied with what they have anyway.
While they're changing Mufasa's past they might as well change his future too to say he was killed by Shadow the Hedgehog. At least, that's what the box office numbers will most likely say.
Yeah, the hype is high for the Sonic 3 movie (especially for the first official trailer to finally release) and the hype is low for this lazy prequel movie which has been revealled to have a butchered story plot and was never asked for. They also 100% doomed it with the idea of using photo-realistic CGI that makes the characters look expresionless and lifeless instead of using the artstyle that the original Lion King movie was made with.
I didn't think much of original Lion King - it's been on in the background entertaining children so often at my house. But I sat down one day and actively watched it, and damn - it IS a masterpiece of its genre, as is The Emperor's New Groove. And sadly I don't think we're going to see its like again without some serious changes at Disney.
You know the criticism is legitimate when the critic offers multiple different ways to tell a good story, even by taking out core concepts to suit disney's likely narrative changes. Indeed, it is quite a shame that disney is most likely to throw out even these incandescent pieces of advice to settle with the rubbish - fire they have in mind.
I'd like to know how they expect a lion, "The King of the Jungle," to exist... "Without a drop of noble blood." Lions are kings because they are apex predators, and only the dominant male has breeding rights to the females of the pride. ALL lions are descended from the king.
If they put me in that boardroom meeting and there absolutely had to be a script for this? -Mufasa actually is of royal blood, but a different antagonist, a royal advisor, convinces his father that Mufasa is the child of an interloper. Initially the king doesn't believe it, but Mufasa breaks a cardinal rule of princes and kings (again, the advisor manipulates him, parallels to Scar) and Mufasa is cast out. I would suggest a vulture as the advisor, one who's branded Rafiki as a dangerous lunatic. So Mufasa spends most of the film thinking he isn't a proper heir. That can inform his character. -He meets Rafiki, we get the whole training montage, but Mufasa has grown bitter over being cast out and thrown away. He has his inner conflict about even wanting to return when he learns the truth, knowing that the word of a traitor means so much to his father, more than his own son. -There's a coup, and the king is deposed, but not killed. Some paralytic poison fells him, perhaps. Vulture brings in the hyenas, and the scavengers take over the Pridelands. -Mufasa meets Zazoo, another bird and one who is perceptive enough to know not everyone is in favour of this new regime. Through Zazoo, Mufasa starts getting into contact with the leaders of the other animals, and he agrees to take back the throne, or at least clean house. -We have big fight scene, but it's a mass fight, not a duel. Mufasa and his allies tear through the hyenas and the vultures. And at the end, he's standing over the still paralysed body of his father. The king knows he's wronged his son, and that his end is near. But Mufasa spares him, because it's not his time yet. At which point Rafiki offers the antidote. You get a lot of the similarities with the original Lion King in this script, but where it differs is that it centers around forgiveness and is a cautionary tale about who to trust when you are in power. You can fit Scar in there as a double agent, someone who plays along with the vulture's plot at first, but proves himself as a useful ally and spy. That would keep Scar as a villain as well as cement the idea that Mufasa still trusted that scheming would never be aimed at him. You can even throw in a few lines like "I could never let any harm come to my brother," knowing full well Scar was adopted. It's a rough idea, but it's a starting point.
I would follow the other Lion King movies' templates. The first was based loosely on Hamlet. The second, while very easy to critique, was based on Romeo and Juliet. If you need a prequel start by finding a Shakespeare play to work off of - like "The Tempest". If you want a ground-up version then "Macbeth" works, by making Mufasa the stand in for Macduff and the antagonist into Macbeth. It's not as creative but it matches with the themes of the franchise and would be something that you can integrate with the rest of the series and some of the necessary plot beats to make it a "prequel" would already add a level of differentiation from the Shakespearean inspiration.
@@Zetact_ This. Hadn't thought of that, with everything the Lion Guard added to the franchise. But you are correct, maintaining consistency in the inspirations would be best. The big question then would be which story to take as a base and who in the cast maps to which character, or even which animal. Elephants are good for those that speak of history, a kudu is a natural fit for a more mysterious and solitary sage (since 'they don't show at the watering holes')... it'd take some work, but it'd be functional. I guess the big issue with Macbeth is that that story is all about different lineages being at odds with each other, while The Lion King's setting centers around a singular royal line. You can work around that if the prequel story is all about other non-lions vying for the throne, though. That'd lean back into the Circle of Life idea that lions have their place and so does everyone else. And to compensate, showing the difficulties of ruling can also be showcased.
@@RaichuWizDom Your final thought about the circle of life dabs into yet another conflict: The new movie wants to send a meritocratic message (Mufasa "earns" the throne and he starts from the bottom), while the theme of the circle of life suggests, that all have their place in the world and you should not leave yours (Simba is ought to be king, not a vagabond, and Scar is ought to be an advisor, not a king). Ideologies of two different ages clash: A feudalistic idea of a rigid society, where everyone is born into their social class and a meritocratic idea of social mobility, in the sense of "Everyone can make it!".
I was most invested, engrossed, and felt more catharsis reading this hypothetical story than I will get from two and a half hours of whatever Black Rock approved sludge DisnESG will defecate out so long as Nob Iger and his rainbow flagscists have control of the company.
At least they explained the roar power and other magics. It was a total retcon, but it was explained. They only added it to make the series, which is still better than CG Lion King works, low as the bar is..
They gave him force powers? Jesus… I’ll be real, I was able to belive the whole Roar thing, I was kinda skeptical when he suddenly gained the ability to brand his friends with the LG symbol, but force powers? What da funk?!
@@aceash5.065 he can now rise pride rock to reach the ancient temple that is under the montain, to speak with the first king of the plains and restore the balance
Referencing Kong-fu panada as a chosen one story feels weird when the literal point is there was no chosen one to be the dragon warrior, Po wasn't chosen because of some special proficy, even if that's what everyone thought, he was chosen because he was a good person, he had potential, the entire dragon warrior prophecy was made up, unless I'm forgetting something...
Kinda yes and no? Po from KFP is sort of a weird “Chosen One” example because he doesn’t have innate skills and abilities beyond what other characters would have innate to their species. The Furious Five are skilled and have abilities drawn from their natural talents that they hone and train for, same with the other various masters and villains we see. What separates the warriors from the civilians is the mindset and work the former puts in to distinguishing themselves from the others. Master Rhino and Master Croc are just as famous and talented as Viper and Mantis, despite the size and brute power behind each of them. Tigress is very skilled in her style, but she lacks the discipline and time that someone like Shifu and Master Oagway had so they could easily beat her. With Po, the pandas are introduced in the 3rd movie as having a sort of innate Chi discernment and manipulation, but that can still be chalked up to their nature. Pandas are pretty chill and go with the flow, so it makes sense that they would have a focus on more meditative aspects of their environment and can be sooo lazy that they wouldn’t bother learning any big fighting styles. Po is a bit different in that he grew up surrounded by all the examples of Kung Fu techniques, stories, masters, warriors, weapons, etc so he’s akin to that lazy and nerdy kid that reads a lot of action books but doesn’t have the physical talent or discipline his athletically inclined peers do. But, that also means Po is very receptive to learning more about Kung Fu and with the proper motivation (such as food training) and a good teacher (once Shifu decides not to run him off), Po can get to the level he needs to be a master of a Kung Fu style or technique that would be unique to his species. So Po himself is a “Chosen One” because he understands what the Dragon Scroll means by being blank and has some cool abilities, but it’s not like he possesses some unique power or ability only he could have and those abilities could theoretically be achieved by other pandas if they got off their lazy butts and trained. Now KFP 2 throws in Lord Shen with the “warrior of black and white” prophecy, but it’s not like the prophecy itself said it would be a panda. Shen just assumed “pandas” because that may have been the only reference he had in mind if his exposure was limited to what he knew. Like, nothing says the prophecy couldn’t have been a Zebra, a Cow, a Penguin, a Ring-tailed Lemur, a White-Tiger, a Skunk, etc. warrior. They may not be native to China, but the prophesy also didn’t say thy had to be Asian animals, just a “warrior of black and white.” And it’s even been pointed out by people that Shen’s coloring matches the black and white pattern and technically, HE was the one who set out his own demise by killing pandas in Po’s old village which began the chain of events which brought Po to becoming the Dragon Warrior and led the pair to meet. So it’s a “Chosen One” prophecy that actually doesn’t specify who the warrior was beyond the physical characteristics. So yeah, Po from KFP is a very specific case of “he’s special, but not in the usual way Chosen Ones are special.”
Not only are they making the prequel. They are retconning the source material. Mufasa is not the descendent of a long line of kings of Priderock. He's just a nobody becoming king.
@LiteratureDevil Democrat here!!! Totally agree!!! Japan understands basic story structure and characters why? Because they haven't forsaken their culture and heritage for an annoying minority who are never satisfied with what is given to them anyway. Heteronormativity is what sells always has been always will be no amount of representation is ever going to destroy that.
@@ferrishthefish , Ariel in both the animated film and the live action remake is a naive teenager, so I'd much rather have a Triton film focusing on a wholesome family than a film demonizing men for just existing.
About the topic of the video, for the original "the lion king", disney used the Shakespeare's play "Hamlet" and for the sequel they used "Romeo and Juliet", so they could use another play for this prequel, like "Macbeth". For some contest, Macbeth in origin of the play was a knight at service of a king and this king had 2 sons. When Macbeth'll betray his king, both the princes run away but only one will return in the end of the play and will move war against Macbeth (after reunite some allies). For what will exactly happen after the war and the death of Macbeth it's a bit long to explain, because some reference are in some greek tragedies, but it will be contrast between the princes outside the play, so the hate of Scar can be easly justify and it can be in character.
I, too, noticed the "lack of noble blood" thing. Nobility implies an appointment by a higher power; a king annoited by God. As you pointed out, Hollywood still has their gods, they just used different words
I think in another context, it'd be fine, but we're talking about the Lion literally King. Even if Mufasa has no noble blood of his own, he goes onto establish a kingdom whereby his sons and presumably their sons will inherit rule due to their bloodline. So really, what's the point in making that a feature of the story?
It feels like being in a long-term relationship with someone who, despite not loving you anymore, still takes you out to the same restaurants and hang out places that you used to go to when you first were together in order to convince you not to leave. They remember what they said, but theyve forgotten how they made us feel.
Male lions, before they find their pride, will sometimes form groups called coalitions. These coalitions have two to four lions in them, though there has been a case where one coalition that had six lions in it. So, perhaps Mufasa with his coalition comes to a land that's being ruled over by an evil tyrant, one that Mufasa feels he has to stop. I would also pull inspiration from the movies Seven Samurai and the Magnificent Seven.
8:36, I disagree with that. A lot of extremely popular and beloved franchises like Star Wars, Harry Potter, Avatar, Lord of the Rings, King Arthur and a number of others use the Chosen One trope and works out fine in all of them. What makes those examples work is that there’s a reason the One is Chosen rather than it being arbitrary
4:29, but the “modern audience” was fine with T’Challa being a hereditary monarch thanks to his parentage. (It’s not an absolute monarchy since he has to negotiate with the council and can lose his power in a fight to the death but even so it can work.)
Another potential option would be Mufasa coming from a line of kings that has been usurped, and he is taking back the throne and restoring the previous order.
I recently came up with a rough plot outline for an animated series set in the Lion King universe. It’s called “Legends of The Pride Lands”. Here’s what I’ve got so far: Season 1: the first rulers of the Pride Lands, finding of Pride Rock, the offices of the major domo and sangoma/mjuzi Season 2: establishment of the Lion Guard, myths of the Great Kings and Queens, expansion of the kingdom (encounters with Rafiki and the hyenas) Season 3: life and reign of Mohatu, conflicts with the hyenas and leopards, births of Uru and Ahadi, introduction to the meerkats Season 4: Uru’s youth, death of Mohatu, reign of Uru and Ahadi, births of Mufasa, Sarabi and Scar Season 5: childhood and youth of Mufasa and Scar, introduction of Zira and her family, Great War of Pride Rock (events leading up to Scar’s corruption, Uru and Ahadi’s death) Season 6: reign of Mufasa, exploration of the leopards and hyenas after the events of previous season, origins of Timon and Pumbaa, events of The Lion King (Simba’s story extended and interspersed with the Reign of Scar) Season 7: first few years of Simba’s reign, origins of the Outsiders and their eventual banishment, births of Kiara and Kion (alongside introduction of other animal characters in The Lion Guard) Season 8: Kiara and Kovu’s childhood, Kion creates his Lion Guard, introduction of Janja and his clan Season 9: several missions and key victories of Lion Guard, the return of Scar, introduction to Jasiri, Makini, &c. Season 10: Scar’s defeat, Kion and his friends leave for the Tree of Life, Kiara and Kovu’s adolescence (season ends with Kovu rescuing Kiara from the fire) Season 11: reunion of the Pridelanders and Outsiders, Kion’s adventures at the Tree of Life, introduction to the Night Pride (ends with Kion being healed of his scar) Season 12: Kion returns to the Pride Lands, introduction to and some missions of Vitani’s Lioness Guard, Kion and Rani’s reunion and marriage My inspirations for this series are mainly Tolkien’s works and some world mythology. I also want to find collections of some good African epics and folk tales for inspiration.
The funny thing is, in the original Kung Fu Panda, the "prophecy of the Dragon Warrior" even was that there was no chosen one and everyone could be the dragon warrior. That was after all the whole point of the scroll. To see that you made it this far and that there is no secret ingredients or special chosen power. Aren't we all glad the following movies stuck with this concept so tightly...
Maybe Scar could’ve originally been the next king, but messed up his chance to earn that title, and Mufasa being the next in line is the one who steps up to the plate during a time of crisis in the movie. We’ve seen how Scar isn’t really that great of a king anyways, but his jealousy would be more understandable while still being in the wrong if this were the case. You could also add in aspects from a tale of two brothers
Bonus points: We get scar in unifier or conquest as the support, the brother that helps him along the way, but starts feeling more and more out of synch or out of place as they go. We see him start to take shortcuts, try to play around Mufasa, and while he helps in the final conflict and resolution, we feel it more out of necessity then want, ending the movie with him looking where they gotten too with annoyance as he was at least helpful, but feeling still that his brother took too much of the glory for himself.
I’d want to see a story that focused on Mufasa and Scar’s relationship and how power and who ends up as king distorts it and pulls them apart etc. But not to such a degree that Mufasa would never want to rebuild that bridge considering how Lion King starts
Writing a lion king movie is simple, the original was based of hamlet so all you need to do is find another Shakespeare play and your golden. Shakespeare did a tone of plays about royalty so something should work with a bit of creativity.
A chosen one could in theory still have to earn it. All the prophecy says is "a hero will come and yadablahblahsoandso", not how they will achieve it. It simply says someone will come who can help, less "it is your destiny" and more "you fit the description so you'll do". You know whomever is working on this movie hasn't seen either version of the Lion King (the original animated version, the CG with live backgrounds version, the stage musical, or any of the spin-offs and sequels) and just wants to tell "my story" instead of Mufasa's origins, and is just using the brand to make it happen since they know modern Disney doesn't care.
@@georgekay7141 Not really showing in the trailer. I have seen many directors and producers make that claim only for the final product to show otherwise that I no longer believe that claim.
@@georgekay7141 Right, and I'm judging the trailer along with recent Hollywood history with a bunch of questionable "loved the original" statements. The movie itself could prove me wrong, but trailers are supposed to get us excited for the movie and this one doesn't do that for me.
@@ShadowWingTronix Well this is just one teaser, there will be more trailers as its release draws closer. At least you're open to the movie surprising you which is good. I have faith that it will because of the talent working on it. It's not going to be your regular Disney movie
I checked the trailer after noticing your video and what stuck to me the most is the "a lion without a drop of royal blood in him" line (or along those lines). I had no idea Disney employs people who never attended elementary school or at least kindergarden. Otherwise they would've known a lion is royalty by default, they're literally called the kings of the animal kingdom!
RU-vid and Tik Tok shorts also acknowledge the royal blood lions have regardless if it's a regular lion, black lion, or albino lion, so I don't know the fanbase Disney is making this film for.
That is literally true in this case. The story is about a single pride of lions and they are the leaders of the animals in their hunting ground, not other lions. In all the movies and tv shows and books and stuff, even the obscure ones, there is never a reference to a single lion that wasn't royal. They literally all are.
@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr Disney is making films for the film-makers themselves, progressive "critics", and investors throwing money their way. They haven't made something for actual customers or fans in a quite a while, really. And apparently, all the current film-makers Disney hired have some deep seated hatred for anything good that was ever made, if only because _they_ didn't make it. I can see the destruction of beloved franchises being, in parts, a huge tantrum by petty and jealous people.
@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr B-b-but having a single specific race of animals being kings just for the sake of being born as the right animal, it's kinda like "wHiTe SupREmaCYYYYY" ! All animals are equal. If Lions are deemed kings, it's just oppressive societal norms imposed by vile, power hungry individuals ! - Disney writers, probably xD
The Star Wars prequels REALLY do a good job of subverting the Chosen One trope by having Anakin NOT fulfill the prophecy (at least not yet) and instead selfishly follow his own desires which led to his downfall
The Dragon Reborn from The Wheel of Time (books) is a pretty unique take on the Chosen One trope. Rand Al'Thor is definitively the Chosen One and everyone knows it. But even though he's literally guided by destiny it's ambiguous if he's going to survive or even win. In the early books the focus of the villains is to convert Rand to their side and because the prophecies he's meant to fulfill don't really paint him as a hero it's a completely plausible outcome. I highly recommend the series, but don't watch the Amazon show. It's terrible.
I can't agree with your rationale for why the Chosen One trope is one to avoid, especially with the example of Kung Fu Panda. All but the bleakest stories end with the Good Guy winning in some capacity, after all, and Po certainly works to earn his ability to stand up to Tai Lung on equal(ish) footing. On the other hand, I completely understand the frustration when a character is all but gifted wins and resources solely because they have a fancy job title; at its worst, such as in She-Ra or other two Matrix movies(debatably the whole trilogy), the victories are cheap, unearned, and painfully unsatisfying, like cheap potato chips or a game set to Journalist Mode. It's the journey, not the destination; the hows and whys of a job getting done.
Lit Dev was making the same arguments about the Chosen One as Snob Anime Man does that it cheapens the heroes journey by making a main character like Luffy the Chosen One.
@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr Not sure who that is, but I agree that making it a "reveal" that a character was a Destiny Child the whole time can leave a sour taste in the mouth. I much prefer when stories are upfront with it. Besides, no one's going to argue that Aang or especially Anakin had it easy, despite being Prophecy People with unique power. Again, it's the journey.
@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr An example of a cheapened journey, in my eyes, is Naruto. He's sold to the audience as an outcast, a screwup, and just barely keeping himself going through sheer grit and determination. And while that's true as far as he knows, he's actually the son of the Fourth Hokage, his apparent lack of skill is the result of too much power, in part because he's the reincarnation of one of the most important people ever (I'm fuzzy on this detail; something like his past life invented ninja magic?) and in part because he has a powerful magic beast sealed inside of him, and he's doted on by his village's leader.
To add on, wasn't the whole point with kong-fu panda there really never was a chosen one, there is no real prophecy, the dragon warrior would be the dragon warrior because of who they are, not some scroll, Po because the dragon warrior because there was potential in him, even if a bit hidden, and he was a good person
Good solid breakdown of the potential for this movie no one asked for. I like the idea of the conquest story, harkens to the original without being a copy. Idea I had for the story could be that Mufasa was indeed a nobody lion, but the royal family is present and there is a prince who befriends Mufasa and circumstances lead to mufasa needing to replace the prince and bring new prosperity to the royal family
I havent seen the trailer, but I think it's more likely that the meerkat and warthog will We'll start out as enemies of Muthfassa, but to them become friends. And they might be the parents of Tamon and Pumba? Point is, it will be an obvious on the nose parallel to the original story of the Lion King, Trying to make Simba's friendship with Tamon and Pumba seem more meaningful And cyclic in retrospect, but it won't actually accomplish this goal.
I've never heard someone actually break down why they don't like the Chosen One trope and why it falls flat narratively for so many people until now! Well said. Also explains why I've been so apathetic about so many film trailers lately. They so rarely express what the conflict is going to be.
You don't even need to examine external material to see that Mufasa being absent of royal blood is breaking established canon. During Mufasa's lecture after Simba endangered himself and Nala in the graveyard, Mufasa tells Simba a story *his* father relayed to Mufasa. It was about how the past kings watch down from the stars in heaven. Apart from foreshadowing Mufasa's message later in the film, it strongly implies that Mufasa came from a lineage of kings, an untold number of kings, and this legend was passed down to him from the previous king, his father.
8:56, in the first movie, Neo is told that he isn’t the One and in the second the Architect reveals that the creation and function of the One is under the control of the Matrix
I'm talking about the concept of there being a "One." The argument is it's a trope that can be easily misused by writers. I also say it can be done well like in Avatar the Last Airbender. The Architect doesn't come in until the sequels. He fixes the concept somewhat - but it still plays like Neo is given a free pass in movie one. Finally, it doesn't matter that he's told he isn't the one. He is.
Best way to retcon Mugasa with that nonroyal line is to make him adopted. And have it be a struggle to earn reapect among the nobility. That or make him a bastard (or exile) who gets disowned and that line is them declaring him unfit to rule.
I love that you are showing a good way of thinking through pitches for stories. I think it helps writers to see they need to put deep thought into their characters and stories (something modern Hollywood has forgotten of ignored).
#DoBetterDisney should be a hashtag campaign. Let's see what kind of traction it gets! As for the choices...I think the "Unifier" one sounds the most interesting. Might be fun to see Mufasa rise to the task of becoming a leader. Assuming the writer for this is not the equivalent of three Rian Johnsons in a trenchcoat pretending to be JJ Abrams. Also...crap, I may be boned if I try to reboot my fanfic series now. Two of the three of your "DON'T USE" list are pretty much standard for Heroes of Arcadia...and the reboot is even going to bring in the Doctor later, so there's the third as well. So, yeah...
I thought after seeing the trailer it would be a bit like "Dinosaur" and "The Lion King 1 1/2," where on the barren side of the mountain range every animal is barely scraping by. Then Mufasa learns there is a lush land of plenty on the opposite side of the mountains, perhaps from Rafiki. Then Mufasa spends the rest of the movie getting there and even coming back and convincing others to follow him there thus discovering and populating the Pride Lands. If "he" rather than his brother Scar is given this message, Scar can be bitter over being passed over for the delivery of this information and think he could have always done the same thing. Also, all they had to do to do this story "and" keep canon was to place this story several generations ago and say the Mufasa from the original story was say, Mufasa the tenth while this one is Mufasa the first.
8:19 Idea Borrow from Lord of the Rings, specifically Aragorn Mufasa is part of a royal line, but one that has long since been broken and removed from power. And the movie is about him reclaiming what is his by right. The kingdom is old and has its traditions, but Mufasa isn't part of them until he's won the throne.
The thing I got from watching the trailer is that it looked a lot like the original Lion King. Mufasa causing mischief as a young kitten, and doing so with what looks like a girl companion; a herd of stampeding elephants that look not a little like the herd of antelopes that would later cause his death. They do go heavier with Rafiki's grandiose language in this trailer than I remember from the original. It just looks like they're going to try to redo the original story, maybe with a few surface changes.
Just that it's a _hopeful_ story is enough for Disney to nix it. They only really seem to make dismal stories these days. They are in no mood to make a cheesy, wholesome "the real kingdom was the friends you made along the way" kind of movie. That would involve writing characters who like and care about each other and that's just not something they do any more.
I THINK I have an idea that could make this work, if done well: Adoption. Mufasa's parents could just adopt him before Scar gets born. Is it forced? Yes, very. Is it a retcon? Definitely. Is it necessary? Not at all. But if we're going with the end-goal of "Change Mufasa to not have been born a King" and working backwards from that premise, then I think this is the best I can come up with. Mufasa's parents could still come from a long line of royal kings. They can totally do the "Chosen one" or prophesied hero or whatever they want still, with the parents recognizing some noble quality in the cub that makes him fit for royalty. Or they could just need a successor after not being able to make one, before Scar happens to be the biological son later, but not the FIRST son. Heck, adoption could even lean into Found Family tropes and acceptance despite different births, stuff like that. And maybe Mufasa needing to prove himself to the other animals to show that he's truly worthy, even past his right to inherit the throne. I won't pretend it's a perfect idea, but it could work with some potentially fun messages and themes. Even if the premise is still forced.
If it were me, I’d make the opposing ruler a hyena. That way, you get a method through which Mufasa can rise to the occasion, and it could set up a potentially powerful fight in the climax, after which the payoff would be Mufasa being crowned king.
8:01, I don’t have a problem with the Chosen One trope except when it’s used to justify a character who could easily solve a problem refusing to do anything on the grounds that “I’m not the Chosen One, it’s out of my hands. I’m glad that Kung Fu Panda and Harry Potter actively defied that particular aspect of this trope (and even the live-action Alice in Wonderland had the other characters be willing to do the Chosen One’s job if she wouldn’t.) It’s one of the few things that disappoints me about Avatar, that Zuko and Iroh both refuse to kill Ozai exclusively because it’s the Avatar’s job instead of theirs.
They explained that they couldn't kill Ozai themselves, because they would be seen as selfish usurpers of the crown. And even (in the comics), after the rightful defeat of Ozai by the Avatar, he still have some supporters/conspirators trying to return Ozai to power.
Thats probably Timon and Pumba telling a fishstory to Kirara about Simbas battle with Scar. Since its going to be telling a story I have a feeling they are just going to Lion King 1/2 4th wall break the whole time.
Good execution on the Chosen One trope really relies on two factors (as far a I can see at least). 1. It is unclear whether the prophecy that determines that the character is the chosen one is actually reliable. In this case the chosen one thing becomes a matter of faith in a higher power that brings order to the world, and the story needs to constantly challenge that faith (but also reward perseverance in that faith) It is the fact that the chosen one is never driven off of his path that makes the prophecy turn out true, if he were discouraged then things would not work out no matter how chosen he is. This prophecy reliability problem can largely manifest either in there being rivals for being the chosen one, or in a mere general lack of faith in the world. 2. The chosenness of the hero MUST come from his genuine authentic character, he can't be a worthless scum but deus ex machina makes it all work out because he has been anointed with destiny sprinkles. He needs to convince the audience that he is not just chosen, but worthy of being the chosen one.
art is a science. you can copy what was done and get the exact same result, but you won't surpass what was done unless you look deeper and understand why it was done.
What you could do is have Mufasa abandoned as a cub, and the King and Queen take him in who already have Scar, and they raise them both to try to be successor, but Mufasa's dad knows Scar will be trouble and bequeaths his empire to Mufasa rather than Scar and then the king dies by the end leaving Scar jealous of Mufasa's kingship
I think Mufasa is a Lion King 1 1/2 situation that’s why Timon and Pumba are there. Also Mufasa not being related to Scar might have to do with those Nala theories that circle the internet.
The original is my favorite movie of all time and the main point of inspiration for me as a writer. It’s true when you get older you realize that things like “divine right of kings” and absolute monarch aren’t great for society but this is a character focused story that at its heart is fable and mythical. Not having simba descend from “the great kings of the past” and completely removing that aspect from the original which is such an integral part to the story truly breaks my heart.
I used a kind of prophecy in my story, it's more a matter of "if he does this, then that will happen, if not, he's dead" with some ambiguity about who the prophecy is about. This gets things kickstarted, but leaves enough wiggle room to get myself out of a corner AND maintain the tension throughout the story. The MC can still be "the chosen one" but... what that means exactly, is unknown.
I think if you tasked me with making a story about Mufasa in which Mufasa had no royal blood I’d start with introducing our hero. In this version he’s the son of a lioness living in the outlands after losing her pride. Their lives are hard, because there’s not much food in the outlands, but Mufasa is happy because he has his family. This ends, however, when a massive cold snap strikes, the plants die which causes the animals to leave. Mufasa’s mother also becomes ill and dies and Mufasa leaves for the Pride Lands hoping to be able to join the pride at Pride Rock. Here he would meet Rafiki, who would explain that the king is dying and this is what caused the cold snap that killed Mufasa’s mother. Mufasa would travel to Pride Rock and here he would meet Sarabi, the eldest daughter to the king. Mufasa would ask her for permission to join the pride and to allow other Outland lions to do likewise, and Sarabi would take him to the king who would forbid Mufasa from joining the pride out of fear that the pride will run out of food if it has too many mouths to feed. Mufasa would start to leave but as he’s doing so the king would meet him in secret. He would explain that he has only one male heir, Scar, but is troubled because Scar’s temperament makes him unsuitable to rule, but while Sarabi might have the makings of a good ruler only a male lion can inherit the throne. However the king indicates if Mufasa were to marry Sarabi and beat Scar in a formal competition he would allow Mufasa to become king. This would set up that Scar resents Mufasa for swooping in and taking the crown that should have been his and also preserve the bit about Simba being descended from a long line of lion kings while also making Mufasa a nobody who has to earn his power. Scar would resent the challenge but Sarabi would propose a couple’s challenge, with her and Mufasa competing against Scar and a lioness of his choice and they would have to retrieve items from various animals living in the pride lands. Mufasa and Sarabi would end up using diplomacy to get the items, promising to ensure the animals’ tribes prosperity within the pride lands in exchange for their support, while Scar and Ziera would try to take what they wanted with trickery and theft. In the end Mufasa and Sarabi would be victorious, although they would be waylaid by Scar and Ziera on their way back to Pride Rock. Scar would attempt to take the items from Mufasa by force but Mufasa would beat him. The movie would end with Mufasa marrying Sarabi and being crowned king, and the circle of life continues.
They could’ve had it were he married into royalty. Sort of the old school legend fairy tale route. He proves himself worthy of both the love, and fathering the royal lineage.x
This is how i see the movie 1. kyros and the white lion pride go around userping prides to become this sort of totalitarian leader over the pridelands 2. he does this to mufasa pride hence hem being thrown into a river and drifting off miles away 3. taka finds him and takes him to his pride where the grow up together 4. kryros eventually finds this pride years later and he takes it down too 5. taka and mufasa flee to the mountains where they find sarabi's tribe 6. taka wants the stay and keep running mufasa wants to fight 7. a love triangle (more of a line) forms between the brothers and sarabi. taka likes sarabi and sarabi likes mufasa 8. using the forces of sarabis tribe theres a final battle between our heros and the white lions 9. taka saves mufasa from kyros during the fight and earns his famous scar. 10. mufasa takes kyros down and is crowned a hero 11. he become king of the now unifed pridelands 12. he marries sarabi and gets all the honor and reconition from the war 13. taka gets nothing for his bravery besides a nickname mocking his injury and (greatest insecurity) even though he has royal blood and mufasa doesn't. 14. this starts takas fall from grace
Not really the topic of this video, but you do a lot of critique about these topics: I really think the inclusivity in bad movies are actually a deliberate strategy to make the left looks bad. Disney can just throw a lot of millions doing bad shows and they don't will really care. But they definitely can make see all the minorities looks bad and push the alt-right in this way culturally.
Best they should do without breaking canon is to somehow have him stripped of his "royal blood" early bc of something idk, which would satisfy both the trailer and the established canon. He would earn back his royal blood by the end of the film.
Can we just stop for a moment and think about how _stupid_ this is? They're trying to make a prequel for the Lion King about the head of a patriarchy... But have to change it so that its more appealing to a modern audience. Then WHY MAKE IT? They could literally do _anything_ else, but they decided to do this and completely alter to pre-established story to accomplish it. :/
I actually got emotional watching those clips of '94 Lion King. The animation is beautiful, to this day. The voice acting was seamless. This was the time when Disney's name was synonymous with "quality animation". What happened? Was the success annoying? (Tbh, what they did to Star Wars was my biggest point of contention, but I was getting real sick of the CG animation craze long before that.)
8:48 as a writer myself I also dislike th chosen one trope but I thought it would be fun if I gave that trope to the rival and villain of my own story to form a forminable challenge for my hero to scale up to show showcase his growth until his own power can rival the chosen one.
Agree completely. Also a big issue with The prequels of any media is that the stakes are pretty low. I mean Mufasa will survive, Scar will survive, Rafiki will survive, there is no sense of danger so you need to replace the stakes with a interesting story with relatable characters. And truth be told, I doubt current Disney can turn Mufasa into a relatable character
Gotta love the way they shoehorned the advertising for this film EVEN WITH advertising the original for its 30th anniversary release back in theaters, what an insult!
I think thematicly and lore-wise we need to have an old traditionaly kingdom in the picture. Other thing we can't do is make Mufasa a rebel, I know modrn writer like this, but it would make the whole Scar thing non-sense. Scar would absolutly use Mufasa rebellion as a tool to manipulate Simba and legitimise his own actions. So we need a traditional kingdom and a way to make Mufasa rise to power legitime, this two thing cannot be changed for the previous reasens. In this case my proposation would be thet the kingdom is on a verge of a civil war, because the line of the kings are on the verge of dieing out. The last king, old and infirm, lost his sons in a war agains (some other group) being unable to having new kids now the kingdom on a verge of the collapse, the anceint order on the verge of the collaps. The king would die and the kingdom would fall to chaos and this is the chaos thet allow Mufasa to rise to power and restore the old order. His quest this way would be legitim because he want to remade what was lost without toppling already established hierarchise thet would make him too close to Scar. Sadly all of this cannot work with Mufasa being a commoner, because Scar in the original movey. Mufasa have to born into royalty for the story to work. In my variant we can make it thet Mufasa family is a secondary line of the main dynasty, maybe for some reasen they left the kingdom in the long past and Mufasa return would be an allusion to King Arthus return form Britanny.
agree with all of it BUT ! poe is the worst example of the chosen one trope. he is said to be the "chosen one" but that amounts to nothing as it is blank and the power is inside you. there is no chosen one. better example Ang
My personal favorite takes on The Chosen One are: 1) Final Fantasy Mystic Quest. There's a prophesy of a great hero rising up to defeat the evil emperor, but the emperor himself WROTE that prophesy to make people complacent so nobody would train hard enough or feel motivated/empowered to actually challenge him. Your hero Benjamin doesn't care and just kicks his butt anyway. 2) In real life, there were many prophesies foreshadowing Jesus of Nazareth, but not laid out as cleanly as they'd need to be in a novel or a movie (truth is stranger than fiction), and even shown irrefutable proof before their very eyes, many people refused to believe. His triumphant defeat of evil didn't come even as his own followers expected - military might and an army of angels - but in _submitting to an unjust execution_ and, after dying, proving that He is stronger than Death itself and rising again.
You make Scar the Chosen One. He's narcissistic, he loves being praised, he loves lording over others. He'd eat up a prophecy seemingly making him the hero and granting him all the fame that goes with it. But when the challenge comes, he takes one swipe across the face and he's suddenly aware of his own mortality. He doesn't ultimately care about all the animals who put their trust in him. He's not going to risk his life for them. He flees like the coward he is. And that leaves Mufasa to rise up and take on the challenge that Scar abandoned. He has to bleed and suffer and risk death to make things right. In the process, he can save his own brother's life. That leads into Scar's resentment of Mufasa. Every time he looks into a pool of water, he sees his namesake looking back at him as a permanent mark of unworthiness. Being a narcissist, he can't repent or accept that his failures are his own. He can only brood and scheme and wallow in self-pity at how "unfair" it is that his brother occupies "his" spot.
