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The Mystery Of The Missing Runway | United Express Flight 4933 

Mini Air Crash Investigation
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This is the story of united express flight 4933. On the 4th of march 2019, an Embraer 145 flying for United express was making the flight from newark to presque isle. It was a cold winters day at presuqe isle and the the snow coated everything. The snow also made it quite hard for landing planes to well land. Information available to the pilots let them know that there was about a quarter inch of snow on the runway and the airport was trying its best to keep the runways clear of snow. As flight 4933 approached presque isle the pilots set the plane up to land at runway 01 at presque isle, they went over the procedures to land on the runway and they tuned the ILS beacon to land on the runway. The ILS would be absolutely essetntial in landing this plane today as the ILS or instrument landing system would take the plane most of the way in towards the airport and then once they were close enough to gain a visual lock on the runway the pilots would take over taking the embraer in all the way to the runway. Its not a complex system but it gets the job done. With the briefing done the pilots lined the jet with 31 people onboard with runway 01. The first officer was the pilot flying and at the start of the approach he had his head down looking down at his instruments, he was making sure that the airplane was where he expected it to be. At this point they were flying by their instruments, I mean looking outside wouldnt do you much good as all you could see would be snow. As the first officer looked up from his instruments to visually find the runway he saw just a whute expanse, he expected to see the thing grey outline of the runway out off in front of the plane but nope he just saw the white expanse. The runway that they had been flying towards was not there. The captain who was the pilot monitoring saw a small tower out in front of them and she called for an immediate go around. As the pilots pushed the throttles to max power the jets started to climb away from the ground but, I don't know if the pilots realized this at the time but the plane clipped the lightning rod of the tower as they went around. That was a close call if anything. As they went around the first officer asked the captain if she had seen the runway lights on their way down She said that she did see the lights and added “Its really white down there thats the problem”, the snow was really making life difficult for the pilots.
The captain couldnt understand why they couldnt find the runway, their instruments had told them that they were lined up with the runway but they werent, she came to the conclusion that they must have drifted off to the side as the first officer was transitioning from instrument flying to visual flying so for attempt number two she wanted the first officer to fly by instruments all the way down to the decision altitude. For this approach the decision altitude was 200 feet above ground level so when they were 200 feet off of the ground they had to go around if the pilots did not have the runway in sight, no questions asked. Thus the pilots set the plane up for approach number two, the plane latched onto the glideslope and the localizer the two radio beams that would take the plane all the way down to the decision altitude. The captain made sure that the runway lights were at maximum intensity by asking the maintenance workers on the ground, they were so when they got near the runway it would be lit up like a christmas tree. Approach number two went flawlessly until they reached the decision height. As they hit 200 feet the captain said “runway in sight 12 O’Clock”. The first officer couldnt find the runway he said “I’m stayin’ on the flight director ‘cause I don’t see it yet.”. The embraer 145 continued to drop. The piltots searched for the runway in the snowy expanse of presque isle but they couldnt find it, they were running out of time they were only a 100 feet off the ground the captain said “what the expletive and the first officer said “ I dont know what Im seein”

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28 июл 2022

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Комментарии : 364   
@doggonemess1
@doggonemess1 Год назад
My guess is that it wasn't reported because of the human tendency to think "they already know, someone else will take care of this". Which isn't supposed to happen in aviation.
@NiHaoMike64
@NiHaoMike64 Год назад
Or maybe the pilots thought it was their aircraft that was malfunctioning?
@savroi
@savroi Год назад
In aviation is where we see the most spectacular consequences but it happens everywhere, from household items to corporate structure. In some ways we are still mediaevals with complex toys and systems we don't ultimately understand.
@doggonemess1
@doggonemess1 Год назад
@@savroi Hear, hear.
@RadioactiveSherbet
@RadioactiveSherbet Год назад
It could also be partly a jaded mindset of "they're not going to do anything about it, anyway."
@savroi
@savroi Год назад
@@RadioactiveSherbet HAHAHA, That's normally an excuse for "I can't be bothered"
@flightmedic7634
@flightmedic7634 Год назад
As a passenger I'd say that in addition to the rough ride of slamming into the ground and skidding along, seeing landing gear out your window, sticking out of the engine, would certainly provide some clues that the landing isn't proceeding as planned :)
@ugiswrong
@ugiswrong Год назад
This runway was racist
@arandomcommenter412
@arandomcommenter412 Год назад
Nahhhh.
@insertcognomen
@insertcognomen Год назад
that's not where landing gears go when you're done with them?
@flightmedic7634
@flightmedic7634 Год назад
@@insertcognomen I mean it was convenient for the accident investigators to find :)
@TheOtherNeutrino
@TheOtherNeutrino Год назад
Passenger: Ah we're finally do- why is there a wheel outside my window?
@thepodcrashed669
@thepodcrashed669 Год назад
I do not envy pilots who need to make the quick decision whether to trust their senses or their instruments. So many aviation incidents boil down to choosing the wrong one.
@AttilaAsztalos
@AttilaAsztalos Год назад
...and most of the time the correct answer would have been TRUST NEITHER. BAIL, NOW, IDIOT!
@cdc3
@cdc3 Год назад
Several years ago, my jet pilot son in law taught me that virtually every such incident is the result of a chain of events and bad decisions leading up to the fatal moment, any one of which could have prevented such accidents if it had been changed. It is a kind of "accident gestalt" when the whole of it is considered.
@edwardrichardson5567
@edwardrichardson5567 Год назад
Never, ever trust your senses. Always trust the instruments especially in IMC.
@edwardrichardson5567
@edwardrichardson5567 Год назад
@@cdc3 yes, we are taught the Swiss Cheese hole effect from day one in ground school..
@docholliday3273
@docholliday3273 Год назад
Supposed to be able to use both....why they are pilots.
@Phiyedough
@Phiyedough Год назад
Imagine if emergency services required 2 phone calls before they would send out fire fighters, paramedics or police officers!
@Milesco
@Milesco Год назад
Yeah, this seems like a really weird rule.
@briant7265
@briant7265 Год назад
In some less serious cases, they do require 2 reports.
@Milesco
@Milesco Год назад
@@briant7265 But it turned out to be pretty serious, didn't it?
@NiHaoMike64
@NiHaoMike64 Год назад
Recently, in Texas, cops showed up at a school shooting but didn't do anything for over an hour.
@antd8667
@antd8667 Год назад
Well said
@PatrickRyan147
@PatrickRyan147 Год назад
A pilot once told me, flying is simple. You just try to have as many landings as takeoffs 🤔😂🤣😅
@theMoerster
@theMoerster Год назад
I guess in northern Maine 5 feet can be described as a "tiny bit of snow"
@RustyOpel
@RustyOpel Год назад
Lol That's why the wife and I leave our lovely house in southern Maine around mid-late October and go back to coastal NC until May or so. 😄
@Kr0noZ
@Kr0noZ Год назад
I have an idea why the misalignment wasn't reported earlier; two things might have come together: 1. if you notice something weird but noone else seems to, you may think that maybe you just made an error and you'll try to avoid drawing attention to that and 2. if the error you spotted concerns a thing you don't need right now, if may feel less relevant and once something else comes up, you just forget about it until you get reminded by a related occurrence. Since the last landings had worked out despite the misaligned localizer, the pilots probably had a good visual and didn't run into any issues because of that - so they simply forgot about it. The one time it was really relevant, it promptly led to an accident. The only way to prevent this sort of thing is training everyone to report anything out of the ordinary, no matter how insignificant, in all cases and follow it up; give feedback on the report once investigated so people know their observations are valued and NEVER make it feel like an unwelcome bother. That way, even small things can be caught before something unfortunate happens.
@8bitorgy
@8bitorgy Год назад
*guy next to chalkboard meme* "pilots trying to explain why flying isn't dangerous"
@TheaSvendsen
@TheaSvendsen Год назад
Very good assessment, in my opinion. I was definitely thinking the same in regards to the previous non-incident being in better weather so not cause for much concern ..at that time. Also, I genuinely hope that the aviation industry will implement something like your suggestion; that ANY and ALL unexpected behaviors of the aircraft, environment, or what have you, is both positively awarded and more focused upon in the future. Our lives literally depends on it. Even more so when you realize how tiny errors can and have lead to many fatalities.
@NeoTechni
@NeoTechni Год назад
Crowd mentality. It's something I warn my wife of anytime I see it in a tv show/movie to drive home that she needs to be on guard for it It's the mentality that if you see something like this (or someone in danger, particularly a woman being raped in public, which is why I warn her repeatedly), you assume someone else will or already has done something, and you go on with your life
@jamespurs
@jamespurs Год назад
100% this
@leahholland6272
@leahholland6272 Год назад
Agree. Hardest part is most flight crew only go into the airport once a day... so any anomaly cam easily be written off as "did we really see that?" And that these issues are presented in a busy time of flight, so by the time they land safely, taxi in icy conditions and unload, they may just completely forget as it wasn't fore front in their mind... just a "that was strange" or "did that happen?"
@AlwaysBolttheBird
@AlwaysBolttheBird Год назад
Every time you start a video and say “this is the story” my mind immediately says “all about how my life got flipped turned upside down” and it still fits haha
@judefernandez9234
@judefernandez9234 Год назад
Yeah dude that song SLAPS
@ElGato1947
@ElGato1947 Год назад
Mini Air Crash Investigation is always thorough. And easy to understand. Even for us non-pilots. Thx!
@commerce-usa
@commerce-usa Год назад
More mini aircraft investigation is indeed always a good thing. Nice job on this one. The flight was extremely fortunate to have turned out as well as it did.
@dfuher968
@dfuher968 Год назад
10:53 "More Mini Air Crash Investigation is always a good thing". Couldnt agree more 😁😁
@RiftWalker111
@RiftWalker111 Год назад
Not when people die
@lordhung7013
@lordhung7013 Год назад
“It’s interesting when people die, they love dirty laundry”
@hp2084
@hp2084 Месяц назад
I used to take your word for it when I hadn't watched mentor pilot videos. The same accident was covered by him and the details you miss or omit makes day and night difference between the quality of his and your videos. His research and explanation on this accident report was just remarkable.
@clarsach29
@clarsach29 Год назад
I chuckled at the Ryanair comment- for those outside Europe, Ryanair is known for its often hard and fast landings and very quick turnarounds....but, they've never had a serious incident, hull loss or loss of life to my knowledge
@AdrianColley
@AdrianColley Год назад
I still call them Valujet Europe because I'm waiting for their equivalent of the Everglades accident.
@lordhung7013
@lordhung7013 Год назад
People love to hate on them but they still fill their jets up.
@hack1n8r
@hack1n8r Год назад
Despite the misalignment issue, the blame rests squarely on both pilots. Since the F/O did not see the runway at the minima for the approach, the F/O should have immediately called for a missed approach / go around. No question. We tend to want to give others the benefit of the doubt, which is exactly what the F/O did when the captain said "Runway in sight". The F/O assumed that the captain had contact, even though the contact could not be confirmed. As a rule, if something doesn't seem or feel right, or feels slightly off-kilter while on approach -- even if the instruments seem ok, call for a missed approach and set up again, or just divert. It really doesn't take much to interfere with an ILS signal. Nearby puddles, snow, airport vehicles, and even planes on certain taxiways, can and do "warp" those ILS signals. Its exactly the same thing that happens that cause loss of cell tower signal when going through a tunnel or a mountain valley. As such, most airports have designated ILS hazard areas in which no vehicle, including aircraft. are allowed to encroach. Likewise, almost all airports with ILS have two hold-short lines at the ends of runways - the normal one at the runway's edge, and an ILS hold-short line much farther back (~100 to 500 feet into the taxiway). The latter must be observed whenever ILS approaches are active and in use. Glad that all made it out safely.
@savroi
@savroi Год назад
They should have, no question about it. Still for me a basic unsophisticated equipment like the ILS that's feeding the pilots wrong information is thoroughly unacceptable. In the end, as you said, the decision lies on the pilots and on their judgement yet I can't put the blame on the pilots alone, this is not the mid XX century so either you have the equipment in running order, you state there's no ILS or you close. Having it transmitting the wrong information is a hundred times more dangerous. Can you imagine what that would have done in a much bigger airport? Of course not for in a bigger airport it would be either out of commission or running perfectly. That standard has to be applied to any landing space which means that in this case the airport, with that weather should have stayed closed. Not a popular decision I'm sure but a safe and honest one.
@geoh7777
@geoh7777 Год назад
Missed approach / go around and encounter the same problem again. What is gained by that? They merely needed to know where the runway was. They would have been better off to ask the airport personnel to park a vehicle in line with the runway and thus been guided to the runway by the vehicle's lights.
@wcate8301
@wcate8301 Год назад
@@savroi ILS systems have signal monitors that would sense a deviation such as this one. Those monitors don't do any good at an unattended airport, where no one's watching them. In remote areas, airport snow removal is often the responsibility of highway department plows, whose operators may not be aware or respectful of the niceties of airport snow removal. I remember once shooting the ILS to minimums twice at an unattended outlying airport, and twice going missed when the runway lights appeared out my side window. Third try (bingo fuel, trick or treat), I saw the runway from a higher altitude through a hole in the clouds and was able to sidestep to a landing. Once on the ground I discovered a highway department snowplow sitting on a taxiway in the ILS exclusion zone waiting for me to quit buzzing the field so they could go back to work. I wrote up a NASA safety report and cc'd it to state highway dept, aeronatics dept, airport manager, and my employer.
@wcate8301
@wcate8301 Год назад
@@geoh7777 You've clearly never shot an ILS approach at night in falling and blowing snow. Vehicle headlights are tiny pinpricks barely visible through the reflections of your landing lights upon falling snow. They would give you no usable guidance at all.
@savroi
@savroi Год назад
@@wcate8301 Thanks for your experience! My father was a pilot during the fifties and sixties. I barely met him, he died as a passenger in an aircrash back 1971. This is what draw me to read and watch a lot about air-crashes and their causes. I am sometimes baffled by how much airport operations are underestimated in clear skies let alone under bad weather conditions. Airplanes are not buses, pilots are not drivers and last but not least flight attendants are not waitresses. My mother was a flight attendant during the fifties on DC-4's, DC-6's, DC-7's and DC-8's, she has loads of stories about bumpy landings having over ran the runway at least twice.
@christopherchilders1049
@christopherchilders1049 Год назад
You do a great job with these videos
@thedevilinthecircuit1414
@thedevilinthecircuit1414 Год назад
You know it's pretty bad when "Ryan Air" has become a universal punchline.
@uzaiyaro
@uzaiyaro Год назад
I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a plane eating its own landing gear before. I know they cannibalise parts for different planes, but this is a new one.
@sonjastarr1364
@sonjastarr1364 Год назад
I know people stick their foot in their mouth sometimes, i didn't know planes did.
@lordhung7013
@lordhung7013 Год назад
It was a mobile order!
@RajeshNarkhed
@RajeshNarkhed 2 месяца назад
wheels on meals perhaps...
@medicinaemdia4895
@medicinaemdia4895 Год назад
Presque Isle is a tiny airport in Maine almost bordering Canada. The flight was not actually from Delta, but from a codeshare airline. These smaller airlines usually don’t pay their pilots well and pilot stress and fatigue end up being way harder.
@savroi
@savroi Год назад
That's a good explanation that in no way serves as a justification for either the airport or the airline.
@medicinaemdia4895
@medicinaemdia4895 Год назад
@@savroi believe me I know …. But with deregulation happening in the usa that is what happened. There even is PBS special even talking about it.
@savroi
@savroi Год назад
@@medicinaemdia4895 Right! But that's the point in the end, deregulation, at least in the way it was implemented meant and means "profit at any cost", exacerbating competition whilst giving the upper hand to bigger companies. This ends up creating pseudo monopolies in which low profit sectors are not cared for even if they are essential to the community it serves. This kind of politics never ends well, "the quick buck" economy generates long term passive debt: Infrastructure is the first victim, then services and finally every other form of commercial exchange. A few get richer while the immense majority can't even live up to the same standards the previous generation did. In the end down the drain goes the faith in the system. Believe me that's a tough mountain to climb back.
@medicinaemdia4895
@medicinaemdia4895 Год назад
@@savroi don’t you think I know about it ? You’re 100% right. It’s just a pit that this had to happen to the airline industry.
@savroi
@savroi Год назад
@@medicinaemdia4895 Yes, it is in general but it is quite notable in the airline industry, one that at a point was the epitome of future and style.
@TJ-USMC
@TJ-USMC Год назад
That's Crazy, you're taught "Trust your instruments" Not so in this instance, Glad everyone's OK !!
@jimmiller5600
@jimmiller5600 Год назад
"Trust your instruments" worked here. It's just that the next step is "confirm runway in-sight or go-around" at 200 ft. Unfortunately, the crew failed.
@buttersPbutters
@buttersPbutters Год назад
The nice thing about GPS-based LPV/RNP approaches is that the system self-detects any errors so the flight crew has a conclusive indication of whether the approach guidance is valid. The only way it can really go wrong deceptively is if the procedure is coded incorrectly into the FMS nav database. With ILS and other analog radio navaids, it's garbage-in garbage-out. There are certain airports internationally where pilots are warned not to couple the autopilot to the ILS glideslope too soon, because reflections off mountainous terrain can cause autopilot-coupled jets to pull 2g vertical load trying to chase a phantom glideslope reflection and then push over into a negative-g dive to get back on the real glideslope. The autopilot doesn't have the common sense to recognize when the ILS is BS, and even with human pilots, as in this case, common sense isn't always an adequate substitute for automated fault-detection.
@islandlife756
@islandlife756 Год назад
Well explained, especially for a non pilot like me. As I understand it, New Zealand's worst aviation disaster (Air New Zealand Flight 901 (TE-901), Mt Erebus, Antarctica, 28 November 1979) was caused by incorrect navigational coding the day before. And this was not initially known. The deceased pilot was exonerated years later.
@davemould4638
@davemould4638 Год назад
GPS is not as precise as ILS. You cannot use GPS to get you onto the runway, it can be out by 100m or more, so you need to be visual with the runway while still fairly high. Its altitude information is even worse, so you need to use the aircraft pressure altimeter or radar altimeter for height.
@cflyin8
@cflyin8 Год назад
@@islandlife756 the Air New Zealand flight was not during an approach. It was due to an error with the plane’s the INS that took them straight into Mt Erebus. The crew couldn’t see the mountain because of the white snow blending in with the white cloud cover. They were flying a site seeing flight that was supposed to start and end back in Auckland.
@kukulkanlordofcas4931
@kukulkanlordofcas4931 Год назад
This is true, but CRJs are incapable of LPV approaches. They may have LNAV+V, but that's not an official glideslope and provides no guarantees of obstacle clearance. Irrespective, even an LNAV approach would provide guidence to the runway, or alternatively, inputting GPS waypoints and setting a bearing pointer to the GPS while the CDI is on ILS.
@wcate8301
@wcate8301 Год назад
@@kukulkanlordofcas4931 This was an ERJ, not a CRJ. Embraer, not Canadair.
@MatchingUser
@MatchingUser Год назад
Oh wow! I actually saw this aircraft after the accident while going to visit relatives! Thanks for covering it!
@cornishcat11
@cornishcat11 Год назад
another great video mate they just get better and better
@edwardportell4955
@edwardportell4955 Год назад
when you put up the picture of the airport, my immediate thought was "that's a post office"
@reneedaniel2881
@reneedaniel2881 Год назад
Another great video 🙂
@lilkc1
@lilkc1 Год назад
10:35 lol. Shots fired at Ryan Air. You ain't lying though.
@maxsmodels
@maxsmodels Год назад
I used to be based at PQI. We all knew that this would eventually happen. It was even worse when it was a localizer only and then there is Mt. Katadin only a small number of miles off of the runway centerline.
@megadavis5377
@megadavis5377 Год назад
This is a hugely vital lesson for all instrument pilots. Thanks.
@vladutnitoiu6370
@vladutnitoiu6370 Год назад
Awesome video!
@SimonTekConley
@SimonTekConley Год назад
I really enjoy your video's. I primarily like listening to these.
@corkcamden9878
@corkcamden9878 Год назад
I like thinking back when you first started your channel. I could see the effort you exerted ; always striving to become more informed and certainly more self-assured. If this sounds to others like empty platitudes, those familiar with your channel know I am sincere. I believe in encouraging instead of discouraging. I apologize for any embarrassment I might have caused you, but you have become someone whose information is reliable, someone who asks for answers when he doesn't have them and just an all-around good egg. Best wishes and good health, sir, from the hills of Virginia. Cork
@FfejNS
@FfejNS Год назад
Great vid, man. Thanks!
@stebjin
@stebjin Год назад
Not the RyanAir roast 💀💀💀
@DuckOfRubber
@DuckOfRubber Год назад
8:22 2-5 feet is a “tiny bit of snow”? Even in places where that amount isn’t unusual, like northern Maine, it generally isn’t considered tiny.
@BobbyGeneric145
@BobbyGeneric145 Год назад
Presque Isle is like Derry from all of Stephen Kings books. Creepy little town! Nice though.
@BobbyGeneric145
@BobbyGeneric145 Год назад
I've filed a report on the ils system in ktys. When you fly ils23L into Knoxville, the papi shows 4 white. Its not cheated. My company report resulted in faa flight test passing through.
@dianericciardistewart2224
@dianericciardistewart2224 Год назад
Very interesting!! Thanks for sharing!! 👍✈✈👍
@paulwestmoreland8498
@paulwestmoreland8498 Год назад
Love this channel
@michaelalexander2306
@michaelalexander2306 Год назад
If ILS had been replaced by MLS, as was planned in the 1970s, the accident probably wouldn't have happen because the microwave frequency would have been unaffected by the snow.
@justcommenting4981
@justcommenting4981 Год назад
GPS now. Main threat now is solar flare or a cosmic blast
@wcate8301
@wcate8301 Год назад
An airport a short distance from us had one of the first MLS units set up as part of a test program. A friend who had contract flight check experience was contracted to do check flights, and the FAA installed a temporary MLS receiver in his plane. I got to fly a few approaches in it outside of official testing time, and was not impressed. The MLS runway already had an ILS installed, and they were aligned to coincide, so comparison approaches could be flown. If you flew the ILS with a stabilized approach and centered needles, The MLS glide slope needle would wander up and down. If you flew the MLS, it was next to impossible to fly a stabilized approach as you had to constantly adjust pitch and sink rate to keep the glide slope needle on the dial, not to mention in the donut. Eventually it was determined that the wavy glide slope was caused by multi-path reception reflecting off the steep rocky terrain beneath the glide path, confusing the receiver. From outer marker to runway threshold the ground was seldom more than 450-500 feet below the glide path. In the end they decommissioned the MLS and moved the ILS to a different runway. FAIL!
@michaelalexander2306
@michaelalexander2306 Год назад
@@wcate8301 I was quite interested to read about your experiences. The system you saw was almost certainly the US-sponsored Time Referenced Scanning Beam (TRSB) system, adopted by ICAO. this system was chosen under controversial circumstances. At the time of the meeting where the decision was made, TRSB simply did not work. The British-sponsored Commutated Doppler MLS (DMLS) demonstrably did. Politics and low skulduggery resulted in TRSB being adopted as the standard, which was never fully implemented, largely due to inherent problems with TRSB.
@asteverino8569
@asteverino8569 Год назад
Thanks for this report. Also liked the Ryanair reference. 😂
@BillyAlabama
@BillyAlabama Год назад
Your videos are so good!
@rodolfoayalajr.8589
@rodolfoayalajr.8589 Год назад
Great educational video friend. Amen 🙏.
@vegasgeorge
@vegasgeorge Год назад
The problem probably wasn’t reported earlier because pilots knew from experience that most likely nothing would be done. Hurrah for bureaucracy!
@Milesco
@Milesco Год назад
Yeah, I'm a bit troubled by this rule that requires _two_ reports about defective navigation equipment before anything is done. 😕
@islandlife756
@islandlife756 Год назад
In such a case, reporting a problem does achieve at least one thing: It covers your ass.
@GaryNumeroUno
@GaryNumeroUno Год назад
Hehehe... even Ryan Air did not escape a mention! Nice subtle dig in the ribs there.
@pookatim
@pookatim Год назад
What seems really odd is that after the first attempt, the captain did not take over for the second.
@hrdley911
@hrdley911 Год назад
I'd like to know with so many deficiencies in her past, why was she a captain? Why was she still employed?
@BigBlueJake
@BigBlueJake Год назад
@@hrdley911 There is a shortage of pilots that has been getting worse for a long time. Regionals end up with new pilots trying to build hours to move to the major carriers and pilots who aren't good enough to make it at the major carriers.
@andyrichardsvideovlogs8835
@andyrichardsvideovlogs8835 Год назад
Fascinating... fortunately everyone survived. But in a lot of respects you just have to blame "the system" for that one 🤦🏻‍♂️
@ZentimeProductions
@ZentimeProductions Год назад
The captain didn't look qualified, I'm surprised she was allowed to fly commercially. She twice said she saw a runway that wasn't there and continued descending below the decision altitude without seing the runway. It could have ended without any damage had she diverted, but it looks she really didn't want to do that.
@vernonsmithee792
@vernonsmithee792 Год назад
@@ZentimeProductions "Women and machinery do not mix"--Quote from James Cameron's "Titanic"🙄
@lebojay
@lebojay Год назад
Strong airplane. Respect for the engineers.
@afreightdogslife
@afreightdogslife Год назад
"That landing would have made Ryan Air landings absolutely divine," 🤣🤣🤣👌🏻
@user-ju2ub2dl8o
@user-ju2ub2dl8o Год назад
I love your videos, but I know it’s probably the limitation of the airplane that you were using for the video, but 708SK is a SkyWest CRJ700 lol. Not a 145. I know because I’ve flown her haha But great video as always!!
@MiniAirCrashInvestigation
@MiniAirCrashInvestigation Год назад
Yeah haha it’s hard coded into the livery. What a small world eh
@thedevilinthecircuit1414
@thedevilinthecircuit1414 Год назад
You missed that in the first part of the briefing!
@vincent412l7
@vincent412l7 Год назад
Yes it was indicated in the video.
@raybruce9522
@raybruce9522 Год назад
Pretty simple explanation of what happened. Gross incompetence of the captain. If you don’t see the runway go around. There are a lot of approaches with offset approaches.
@F-Man
@F-Man Год назад
Nice thumbnail! 😃
@phishbill
@phishbill Год назад
As always, fantastic job. Am glad i subscribed, and you always give me good reason to post a Like.
@gwendolyndefelice4441
@gwendolyndefelice4441 Год назад
We live in Presque Isle and fly out of PQI fairly frequently. We saw the plane after the bad landing (i.e. crash) witht eh wheels stuck in the engine. Ouch! Weekly we drive by the runway on the way to Mapleton.. and make sure the snow is cleared from essential equipment. You never know. We may need to fly in the winter. We did experience a rather exciting there go around due to wind last summer. Felt we were at a 35 degree angle. But we love our local airport!
@karllung2649
@karllung2649 Год назад
I am surprised that such a small airport got ILS. In fact it is not a good idea to have "advance" equipment if they are rarely used and you don't have proper person to do maintenance.
@NedAndre
@NedAndre Год назад
It's probably because it's northern Maine. There's NOTHING out there for quite a while, so I bet it has been equipped because it may be called on in case of emergencies, national or single flight. It's a long way to Bangor from there, and a lot of international flights come down through Maine. I can sit outside and watch them come and go all day southwest to northeast and back again.
@mal2ksc
@mal2ksc Год назад
Instruments that lie are much worse than instruments that give no answer at all, unless the lie is something that can be interpreted and compensated for somehow. A clock that's 15 minutes fast is still useful, as long as you know it's 15 minutes fast.
@SimonWallwork
@SimonWallwork Год назад
When I flew the Barbie (ERJ-145) we used to say their isn't a runway it hasn't gone off the end of. Great little jet though- 1200 built and no fatalities.
@BigBlueJake
@BigBlueJake Год назад
Hmmm... sounds like a list of pilot nicknames for different models of civilian planes could be a fun read! I'm kinda short so ERJs and CRJs are the perfect scale - no climbing required to check if you can shoot a carry-on into an overhead luggage bin! The only bad part of flying "pipsqueak" airliners is you can't bring two pets with you like on a big plane (military, moving from one place to another).
@ryanfrisby7389
@ryanfrisby7389 Год назад
That’s crazy to think that there were so many different ways this could’ve been prevented.
@jimmiller5600
@jimmiller5600 Год назад
That's why the US has so few airliner fatalities -- there are multiple layers of safety checks built in. The crew failed the most critical one "is the runway in sight?" not "I think that's the runway".
@danieljakubovic
@danieljakubovic Год назад
Great paralleled parking
@marianodanielvillafanewagn1920
didn't know snow could interfere with the ils. by the way, congrats for 22k+ visits in one day
@Boodieman72
@Boodieman72 Год назад
Pilot error, they should have done a go-around at the decision height and diverted.
@robr2389
@robr2389 Год назад
I concur with DogGone. The other pilots got down safely. Likely blew it off as a fluke or something. Or thought the misalignment had already been reported.
@stephenbritton9297
@stephenbritton9297 Год назад
It’s a subsided route, Essential Air Service.
@dodoubleg2356
@dodoubleg2356 Год назад
"That landing would've made Ryan Air landings 🛬 look devine." BAWHAHA!!! 😂
@MechaNintendoMast
@MechaNintendoMast Год назад
Also yet another airport with inept systems that are tolerated until a disaster actually happens.
@rob737700
@rob737700 Год назад
Flew into Presque Isle many, many times back in the day. It can be done safely! Why was this "captain" allowed to keep flying after demonstrating such a lack of proficiency over and over again? These "pilots" need to be weeded out once and for all, it's not fair to the passengers (they buy a ticket, not a chance).
@savroi
@savroi Год назад
You're probably right still ILS misinformation under the wrong weather conditions (which adds pressure and stress to whomever is piloting) is not a minor problem.
@rob737700
@rob737700 Год назад
@@savroi Not ideal but it does happen out there. And definitely not an excuse to drive your jet into the ground.
@savroi
@savroi Год назад
@@rob737700 You’re right. Management’s problems are on both sides:a company that allowed a scarce pilot to fly and an airport that didn’t know or care enough about a system that is crucial when landing with less than ideal weather. I doubt very much this would have happened had the pilot seen the runway. The pilot should have gone to the alternative airport.
@logansaddler4399
@logansaddler4399 Год назад
Flying along with a flashing master caution?
@m.t.vandersmookie1150
@m.t.vandersmookie1150 Год назад
I’m glad everyone survived
@tracynation2820
@tracynation2820 Год назад
Super. 💙 T.E.N.
@JamesWhite-sl2sb
@JamesWhite-sl2sb Год назад
Man , they have to " FLY IN THAT STUFF ❄️
@AdrianColley
@AdrianColley Год назад
10:35 is an unnecessary stab at Ryanair and I love it.
@raylopez99
@raylopez99 Год назад
The lights are on [off], but you're not home. Your mind is not your own. Your heart sweats, your body shakes...
@PastorAaronEdwardsHall
@PastorAaronEdwardsHall Год назад
I blame everyone but mostly the captain. First off, what did she see? Clearly nothing. The first officer assumed he was missing something because of it. He still should have called a go around. At the end of the day, the captain gets the blame. I hope she has found a much safer career
@brentj.peterson6070
@brentj.peterson6070 Год назад
Gotta go around ✈️
@markprange4386
@markprange4386 Год назад
Runway 1 is long and has enough slope upward that it is preferred even with some tailwind. A tailwind during snowfall can pack onto the runway lights and even block sight of the VGSI (and the runway surface). In such a situation, even if a pilot can see where the runway is neither the runway edge lights, the runway, its markings, nor the VGSI are seen. Seeing at least one of these is needed for continuing the approach below Decision Altitude.
@royoberon7151
@royoberon7151 Год назад
Thank God for the 1500 hour rule enacted in 2013 or this flight would have safely diverted to KBGR. ;P
@miggis
@miggis Год назад
Embraer: CRJ in flight sim: Am I a yoke to you?
@stephenbland7461
@stephenbland7461 Год назад
Love the dig at Ryan Air….🤣🤣🤣
@boeingdriver29
@boeingdriver29 Год назад
Sounds like the Captain should have chosen another career.
@Mrsournotes
@Mrsournotes Год назад
Another very interesting video! Now, what’s this about Ryan Air landings…..😎
@qwertyuiop3455
@qwertyuiop3455 11 месяцев назад
3:51 No matter whether or not the ILS was erroneous; The crew had no business below approach minimums with none of the required runway environment in sight. If you are at 100' above ground, you must have already had the approach lighting in sight--Cannot descend below 100' without 1 of the 10 required items (which includes the runway itself, its markings, lighting, etc.).
@stevebell4906
@stevebell4906 Год назад
You need to do a video of the commercial flight with passengers supposedly landing at Tampa International that actually landed at MacDill AFB Completely differed configuration of runways ..... No injuries....Plane surrounded by armed Security ...Giant SNAFU! As explained to me by a retired Navy Pilot with many years of experience....It is routine for highly qualified commercial pilots on instrument approach to call out ..."Runway In Sight"...at decision altitude altitude Before they can actually see the runway...and just keep on the glide path for a few more hundred feet...until they break out of the clouds...and when you actually see a runway in front of you land on it...In his assessment that is what these guys did and they landed at the wrong airport... Lets see this one debated?
@blackandgold676
@blackandgold676 Год назад
Clipped the lightning rod??? Sweet JE-sus!
@davidorth4906
@davidorth4906 Год назад
I saw a video of 2 Mirage fighter jets taking off on an asphalt runway in Africa.It was missing afterward, or afterburner. But...
@curbyourshi1056
@curbyourshi1056 Год назад
I've flown Ryanair loads. Always been good, even letting me go pee after 5 or 6 pints just before take off. I won't hear a bad word said about them to be honest.
@colinpotter7764
@colinpotter7764 Год назад
You cannot have a decision altitude above ground level, it must be decision height. The airfield elevation is over 500ft, there is a huge difference between the two.
@rexrobo2512
@rexrobo2512 Год назад
@Mini Air Crash Investigation I understand that embedding links of suggested videos in the video itself is a pretty cool option. Maybe you are not aware that people watching your video using mobile devices, not with the app, but with the mobile website, are UNABLE TO CLICK on links that are placed inside videos. Could you please include links to suggested videos in the description for those using the mobile website. Thank you Great video by the way!
@davidb8185
@davidb8185 Год назад
I'd like to second the suggestion to include the suggested links in the description. The links in the video don't work on some devices. Thanks.
@markleyg
@markleyg Год назад
Could make a drinking game for every time you said "runway".
@Ten80pete
@Ten80pete Год назад
"2 to 5 feet of snow was obscuring the ILS beacon. That TINY amount of snow meant that..." Ah, I see you're a native of Buffalo or Siberia, good sir!
@kevin1873
@kevin1873 Год назад
It's sounds as if the FO might have been aware of what was going on with the magneta and green lines on the PFD in regards to the navigation modes. The Magenta indication let's you know that the navigation mode is set to the FMC and the green indications let you know your are set to VOR navigation which is also what is used to tune the ILS of the runway as well.
@torgeirbrandsnes1916
@torgeirbrandsnes1916 Год назад
Great vlog as always. I guess the captain lost her job… look into the accident of WF710 the 6th of May 1988. Keep up the good work!
@hepphepps8356
@hepphepps8356 Год назад
Yes! Do WF710! It would be really interesting with a good visualization of that one if the report is even available in english!
@isbestlizard
@isbestlizard Год назад
Crazy that a bit snow could cause a *lateral* shift of the localiser by a few hundred feet.. like I could see how a reflection might change the angle, but surely it would still lead to the antenna, just at a slightly different angle?
@jimbob5891
@jimbob5891 Год назад
It was still leading to the localizer antenna, like you said that angle of the beam was off. That leads to an increasing deviation from the lateral path the farther out from the antenna you go.
@isbestlizard
@isbestlizard Год назад
@@jimbob5891 Then by following it, they should have arrived at the threshold, just.. pointing 5 or 10 degrees or whatever from the runway heading, which they clearly didn't, as they were displaced from the threshold by a few hundred feet
@jimbob5891
@jimbob5891 Год назад
@@isbestlizard A localizer doesn't tell you what heading your aircraft should be flying, it tells you where you are, either left or right, relative to the center line of the runway it is serving. If a snow pile is somehow redirecting the beam being emitted by the localizer antenna, you won't arrive at the runway threshold on the wrong heading, you will arrive at the threshold of an imaginary runway somewhere to the left or the right of the actual runway.
@isbestlizard
@isbestlizard Год назад
@@jimbob5891 I figured out why - the actual antenna of the localiser is at the FAR end of the runway, not the end you land at, so deviation by a few degrees is going to cause lateral offsets at the end you land at
@dollyhadbraces9361
@dollyhadbraces9361 Год назад
This... ...is the story
@em1osmurf
@em1osmurf Год назад
saw the teaser for this, immediately thot of old pollack joke: they skidded to a stop on landing, and the pilot sed: "jeez that was a short runway!" copiliot: "yeh, and really wide, too."
@AryanKumar-ol9tr
@AryanKumar-ol9tr Год назад
can u make a video on air france flight 11
@sparkplug1018
@sparkplug1018 Год назад
Best guess why pilots hadn't reported it before was that they were flying in good weather. The ILS got them pretty damn close, saw the runway and made a slight correction, probably didn't think much of it. Possibly even equating it to their own error, oh I guess we didn't line up right on it, type of deal. Or, in the previous incidents, it wasn't that far off. Say maybe 20 feet off centerline, which would peak their curiosity, but again, easy enough to just make the slight correction and equate it to your own error.
@dougschwieder3627
@dougschwieder3627 Год назад
I know this is going to sound like a really strange suggestion, but could the controller not proactively inform the next few pilots following the complaint to inform them of any deviations from the whatchamacallit approach signal/path of the ils/vor whatever it is signal after they land in order to get a picture of the state of the whatchamacallit and whether something could be wrong with it?
@savroi
@savroi Год назад
Letting aside the pilot's shortcomings the main issue for me is a system that's put in place to safely guide the airplane and it doesn't. This means that not only the airplane is not approaching the runway as it should but that the pilots are informed otherwise. Could the pilot's expertise have saved the plane? Probably, but that meant disregard the information instruments were feeding them either by going around again or deciding to divert to an alternative airport. For me, the latter would have been the sensible decision but we know what that means from an economical point of view don't we, so pilots are instructed to take that measure only if they believe there's no way in which they could have landed safely there. It also means a long scrutiny in the aftermath. A pilot that had the records this one had will try to avoid that at all costs. At any rate, an airport is an airport, no matter how small so, either you have adequate systems in place or you close. You're toying with lives here, you can't take it with levity. In some ways we still have a XIX century attitude: if it comes to that we can solve it with a hammer! Yeah, well, we can't and at this level of risk it is downright stupid. Thousands have died because of this "brave it up" attitude and unfortunately thousands more will still. This is above everything else a management problem that severely underestimates the tragic consequences of ill equipped airplanes and airports. This is the XXI century and air-crashes like the one featured here have no reason to happen but ill-management. My final rant: I believe many of this crashes are caused by "the probability of happening is negligible". I wonder if they would still adhere to that theory if a family member of any of these people had been on one of these types of aircrash, maybe they would and that worries me even more!
@qstrian
@qstrian Год назад
Reminds us why even rental car parking lots are designed to accommodate aircraft landings.
@hrthrhs
@hrthrhs Год назад
Self doubt I would say is why other pilots didn't report it. It could also be that so many little errors happen in aviation, that it's very easy to write-off an error as one of those.
@Straightdeal
@Straightdeal Год назад
Sometimes seeminglingly minor issues are not acted upon. The passengers demand that the pilots do their absolute best to get them to their destination safely. Unforgivable by the pilots.
@michaeltrivette1728
@michaeltrivette1728 Год назад
as a DCS player in the F-18, let this be a reminder to do your INS alignment people.
@Perich29
@Perich29 Год назад
Pilot: where is the runway? Tower: I burry it.
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