The Mystery Of The Phantom Chord Progression

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Sometimes chords aren't quite what they seem.
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Modern harmony is based in part on traditional techniques, but it varies in some important but subtle ways: Pop music especially is full of things that you can sort of analyze with old models if you're willing to overlook some of the more difficult aspects of it, but to really understand these new ideas it helps to build new models that engage with the music on its own terms. One recent attempt I found sought to explain a chord progression that's been growing in popularity recently which doesn't quite behave the way it seems like it should, and when we take a closer look, it might just be telling us something amazing about how modern music works.
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Also, thanks to Jareth Arnold for proofreading the script to make sure this all makes sense hopefully!

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7 май 2020

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Комментарии : 320

@12tone 4 года назад

Try CuriosityStream free and get Nebula included: www.curiositystream.com/12tone and use promo code "12tone" Some additional thoughts/corrections: 1) One thing I should make clear here is that Duinker didn't invent this concept out of thin air: He cites and works off a lot of pre-existing scholarship. The concept of rhetorical function, for instance, is based off Daniel Harrison's work on tonal function in 19th-century chromatic music. I left that out of the script itself because I couldn't figure out a way to mention it quickly without it seeming like an insult or something, but it's not meant as one. That's how academia works: New ideas are built off of older ideas. You can check out the article at www.mtosmt.org/issues/mto.19.25.4/mto.19.25.4.duinker.html and if you're curious I'd recommend perusing the sources for more information. 2) A big reason I was excited by Duinker's paper is that I feel like there's not nearly enough of an effort to meaningfully reconcile functional harmony and the vocabulary of modern pop. A lot of the discourse around that falls into one of two camps, either A) blindly applying old-school functional ideas that don't really make sense with the way we use chords these days, or B) insisting that functional harmony is useless now and we need to build a new system from the ground up. I don't believe either of those approaches make sense: Modern musical practice is clearly derived in part from traditional functional systems, but it also has other influences and has developed its own vocabulary. I think there's a lot of value to a model that allows for the incorporation of functional ideas without ignoring modern developments, and Duinker's seems like a good approach to at least one aspect of that.

@guymandude6628 4 года назад

If you're interested in analyzing, any song by Deadmau5. "Strobe" attracts my attention.

@chowellsbigpond 4 года назад

I reactivated my CuriosityStream account but I am not sure if I can get Nebula as well

@greenius1 4 года назад

@@chowellsbigpond I reactivated Curiosity Stream after letting free trial expire and Nebula did not automatically get reactivated... then I emailed Nebula customer support and they sorted it out really quickly.

@The_Accuser 4 года назад

I highly recommend Brett Clement's ideas to you: trace.tennessee.edu/gamut/vol6/iss1/4/ He has found ways to reconcile Frank Zappa's music with functional harmony in new creative ways. The irony is priceless, considering Zappa being in camp (B) This case you describe is even at the heart of Brett Clement's studies: A lydian functional theory that preserves a lot of the functionalities of common practice, while introducing a new perspective. In a lydian system, the G above would be the *I* chord indeed, and the A would be the *II 7* , i.e. the dominant 'II' chord. And the Bm would just be *iii.* Clement's ideas are based on the analyisis of jazz composer/theorist George Russell. _The Lydian Chromatic Concept of Tonal Organization for Improvisation (New York: Concept Publishing, 1959)_ There are many more simpler examples from 1970's, 1980's pop music. Simpler even than the above chord progression are several Fleetwood Mac songs: 'Dreams' for instance only has F and G throughout all the verses. Only in the chorus the Am is added. Similar structures in 'Gypsy' and Stevie Nicks solo song 'Edge of Seventeen' from the 1980's. Since the dominant chord is right beside the tonic, it adds the possibility of making endless loops/plateus. As Russel describes: While the major scale resolves to it's tonic, the lydian scale _is_ it's tonic.

@chrisboon6354 4 года назад

Something that’s always intrigued me is Mike Oldfield’s tubular bells. Specifically what damned time signature is it. I have tried counting in 5/4 7/8 9/8 I’ve even heard 15/4 from people. Would adore a video about it

@mrwizardalien 4 года назад

this whole channel is teaching me things I *technically* don't need to know, and that's why i watch it. please don't stop teaching me those things

@OddMeterMusic 4 года назад

I agree 100%

@jazzanarchy 4 года назад

I need to know all of these things.

@greablood1072 4 года назад

Jorn Hertsig Lol I don’t cook and am currently watching cooking tutorials- sometimes something completely different just feels right

@ossiehalvorson7702 2 года назад

I worked professionally in the industry and I've never used 7/8 of what he's teaching in his videos, but I still keep watching them. lol

@mihailmilev9909 11 месяцев назад

Right

@nfectedpsychosis 4 года назад

“It won’t happen again” How dare you It BETTER happen again

@jaybonn5973 4 года назад

Also I jsut spent the past hour learning what roman numeral notation is and my god modes are a lot clearer now as well as chords in general.

@aimilios439 4 года назад

I'm the only one that heard D clearly as a third and B more resolved?

@johno378 4 года назад

Nope. I can see how it the melody resolving on B can sound awkward in that scenario because the melody already was on D before the Bm chord. Resolving to B would require a minor third jump that may be perceived as unnecessary. I prefer the example melody ending on D, but I definitely heard that note as a third and not the root.

@FischerDefilementory 4 года назад

Same. When he said it doesn't feel right, I was like "... Yes it does?"

@robsontv4902 4 года назад

Me too. A very vanilla chord progression, with a boring melody, all pointing to a simple B minor.

@svenipsa6445 4 года назад

I don't think the traditional distinction between parallel major and minor keys is very useful in analyzing most of pop music. Rather, to me, it makes much more sense to view them as equals existing in a tonal symbiosis. This means that in this case, both D-major and b-minor are the tonic and should be treated as equally important. So much of pop music is built upon this duality and I don't think that we need to be looking for complicated solutions such as politonality. I've been thinking about this for a while and to me, a classically trained musician and a harmony nerd, it makes perfect sense, yet I've never ever heard someone explaining it this way... I honestly don't see what the fuss is about. In cases like this one, instead of identifying songs as being in a major or minor key, we should be saying that they're in the key of D/b.

@PragmaticAntithesis 3 года назад

I also heard it as an unambiguous flatVI flatVII i progression in B minor. Though that's probably because I'm used to hearing touhou music, which uses this exact progression to introduce minor keys quite often.

@ConvincingPeople 4 года назад

I've noticed of late that true polytonality is actually not uncommon in modern trap production, with many of the Autotune vocal melodies explicitly contrasting with the bass and other melodic elements beneath not because they are "off-key" but because they are very intentionally in two or more different keys, often with the aim of combining strong melodic hooks with a consistently tense and often unsettling overall vibe, matching the mix of celebratory and menacing content in the lyrics.

@DimitrijeBeljanski 4 года назад

post some examples, pls :)

@_cynth_wave 4 года назад

I'd also be interested in some examples!

@letsnotgothere6242 4 года назад

Understanding that, I might be able to enjoy trap music now. I just assumed it was through the ignorance of the bedroom producers that they sang off key (with or without autotune)

@tyr4489 4 года назад

This is the one thing I enjoy about trap lol. Once the hype dies a little and we get some more art-minded producers in the genre I think it'll be really interesting

@bigmoney923 4 года назад

@@DimitrijeBeljanski Twenty88 (Big Sean and Jhene Aiko) - Selfish ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-LvfgNuCvLpc.html Here's an example from and rap/r&b song. I like the whole song but it switches to this really dope chord progression periodically. The first time is around ~0:42. You can hesr them singing the A minor based melody over Abmaj7, and then Dbsus13.

@Gravitynaut 4 года назад

So I have a bit of a question. What's stopping someone from reading the progression as just a repeating deceptive cadential gesture? Even if they never quite play that D, the melody still implies D and the harmony wants to resolve to D, its just taking that deceptive alternative over and over... right?

@MisterAppleEsq 4 года назад

That's how I hear it.

@chrismatthews3800 4 года назад

That’s how I hear it too...

@griffinc466 4 года назад

I hear it the reverse way. To my ear, this song is unambiguously in B minor.

@LowReedExpert1 4 года назад

I came to look for this in the comments

@TroyJakubiec 4 года назад

@@griffinc466 Another song that immediately came to mind for me was Red by Taylor Swift. Yes the last two chords are flipped [F Am G ], and the Chorus seemingly goes to the tonic [C], but to my ears it's a lydian sound. Check it out and see what you think.

@BlameItOnGreg 4 года назад

Huh, well I definitely hear B as the root. When you did the version with the melody resolving to B that sounded way more resolved to me than the actual melody ending on D. I hear that as ending on the third.

@aimilios439 4 года назад

Thank you.

@nfectedpsychosis 4 года назад

Agreed but will also add that the B is too resolute somehow

@ZipplyZane 4 года назад

@@nfectedpsychosis sure. But pop music loves to avoid a full resolution to create that looping feeling.

@jacobfife7273 4 года назад

Came here to say those 2 exact same points. I’ve never heard the song (at least I don’t think I have) so what makes sense would theoretically sound better to me but maybe in context it makes.

@stephenkadoka8736 4 года назад

Your ear is good. Bm serves as a tonic chord, but in my view it is the vi tonic not the I tonic (D) which is avoided for most of the song. Theory nerds will be quick to remind us that vi, the minor six chord, is also a tonic chord with a similar function to the root tonic (major I) chord

@jrpipik 4 года назад

Completely overthinking it. Songs resolve to the third of the tonic all the time, especially in minor keys where it gives the song its character, i.e. minor instead of major. For a songwriter, resolving to the third can, to oversimplify it, make it sound sad. This song is in B minor.

@camh_plays2241 4 года назад

jrpipik I see it as D major but with a repeating defective cadence

@Armakk 4 года назад

This is the primary progression in Rush's "Subdivisions"... explains a lot

@Bacopa68 4 года назад

Thank you. First time he played those chords in the vid I knew they came somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights.

@masicbemester 4 года назад

and in Car Radio by Twenty One Pilots

@OmenAhead 4 года назад

Nice video man, really loved your way of thought and drawings lol. As a songwriter for years, I believe this chord progression VI - VII - i (in minor) is the second most solid way to express minor (dark, sad, esoteric, aggressive etc), the first being VI - V - i (minor). I rarely listen to pop, but I can tell you 89% of rock/metal/metalcore/electronic/dubstep/etc songs use this progression extensively. Tonal centers rely very much on how you use them (duration, how much they show up), so a root chord can be anywhere that melody resolves to (even on 3rd or 4th bar). Also, that D note they resolve to, is just implying the Bmin (root) underneath. Using a B gave it more resolution as well.

@Calcprof 4 года назад

Why not from a jazz viewpoint just call it D6 (with unvoiced 5th, common in jazz), or just comment that vi is a perfectly good sub for I.

@ahmedarafa4486 4 года назад

You are so underrated, and I am always eagerly waiting for your uploads. Definitely the best content and execution out there.

@deltahedron606 4 года назад

Honestly I really don't like this idea. Hybrid tonality is awesome and the whole flexible tonic based on perception is for sure a thing, but when it comes to the whole major melody over a minor harmonic progression thing I just don't hear it. Same with all modes, like having a melody that sounds Ionian on its own but the chordal context is Dorian I wouldn't call Ionian at all, I hear that it's recontextualised rather than some kind of fusion. However I always like when things question traditional harmonic functions and the ideas around that seemed pretty good and accurate to what I think and hear.

@elliottabaza6348 4 года назад

Keep up the good work! Keeps getting better.

@katiefrisk980 4 года назад

i tend to view four chord loops that fit in the same scale as a kind of modal harmony. the point isn’t to arrive anywhere but to give the listener a consistent scale- the melody is the important part.

@positivefingers1321 4 года назад

Stop what you’re doing, 12 tone posted

@LowReedExpert1 4 года назад

He's about to ruin the rhythm and the style that we're used to

@baylinkdashyt 4 года назад

#whatyoudidthere #Iseeit

@fabioperrucci7562 4 года назад

I've always considered G-A-Bm as the typical VI-VII-i chord progression (Subdominant-Dominant-Tonic), at least this is the most simple approach and I think it's the most correct.

@JBergmansson 4 года назад

This, imo, did not really need explaining. To me, in pop, I often hear a major key and its parallel minor as exactly the same key.

@svenipsa6445 4 года назад

Finally someone that makes sense, thank you. I think it's just as simple as that.

@jamiemoffattmusic 4 года назад

I'm confused by the Chainsmokers example. To my mind it's pretty unambiguously in the key of D despite rarely playing a D chord because in D the vi chord (Bminor) also has tonic function. You said G-A implies D as a resolution, the melody ends on a D and Bminor also has tonic function in the D major scale. That still goes Subdominant, dominant, tonic, it just chooses a different tonic within the key of D, right? I'm clearly missing something here but my instinct would be to unambiguously declare it in D major and then talk about all the fascinating artistic implications behind the choice to never play the I chord as the tonic.

@stephenkadoka8736 4 года назад

Totally agree, I'll say it again. Bm serves as vi (six minor) which has a tonic feel, but D is the I chord, it comes up and the song stays on the D chord treating it like the I chord near the end before the last repetitions of the "floating" IV-V-vi chord loop 👍🏼🙌🏼 I haven't looked closely yet but the other chainsmokers song "something just like this" which sounds identical appears to do the exact same thing. Loop on VI-V-vi most of the song then finally the I pops up before the song ends... first time I heard that song I was shocked I was like wait who recorded new lyrics over that chainsmokers song Closer? Turns out they did, but they substituted Coldplay for Halsey on the vocals-- same song 😆

@MaraK_dialmformara 4 года назад

I read the plateau cadence as IV(subdominant) V(dominant) vi(subdominant where you’d expect a tonic, to subvert the listener’s expectation of a tonic), creating the expectation of an IV-V-I progression to follow. Which of these theoretical frameworks does this fit best into?

@jameslivesey8322 4 года назад

vi is not subdominant. it has tonic function normally (this might be debatable but it certainly seems to have tonic function to me). A cadence that resolves differently from moving to 1 is an interrupted cadence. you can do this to any chord, but most usually it is V7===>vi or V7======>bVI

@rianf101 4 года назад

Such a great and interesting topic and explanation!

@andrew_z_8547 4 года назад

Personally, I think the chord progression, as said by many, pulls to a B minor tonic rather than D major. A VII-i chord is not uncommon in songs, especially Chinese or other world folk music, and it has seen much usage. For example, the main melody of the “sunflower” 太阳花 piano solo by Yu Shi Wang has a strong F Major to G minor cadence, the same thing seen here.

@paulmann1289 4 года назад

Thanks, you answered so many questions I've had

@carbonmonoxide5052 4 года назад

I see this as a chord substitution. Bm and D have more or less the same function, so either works in this context. Regarding the Mario Cadence, it’s the same idea, except the Bm is made major. B minor is the relative minor of D, with B major being the major version of that. D and B major are intrinsically linked because the same dim7 chord resolved to both (C# E G Bb/A#). Because of this, an A7 chord can resolve to D or Bm because the C#-G tritone resolves to D-F# in both cases. An A7b9 also resolves well to both chords, as well as B major. There’s a technique of using a diminished chord to pivot between keys, but it doesn’t necessarily need to be a diminished chord, it can be any chord with dominant function, like the A in this example. It could also resolve nicely to G#, acting as a tritone substitution (F would be a stretch). I’m terrible at explaining this stuff with words, but I hope y’all get what I’m saying.

@scottblair8261 4 года назад

That's an interesting view, my main problem with that would be it seems yo rely heavily on some implied chords that I honestly just don't hear, but this is music theory, so many interpretations are possible.

@jakefisherrevenue7707 4 года назад

Carbon Monoxide I agree with the first part of what you are saying. It seems like the Bm is a straightforward substitution for the D. The walk up from G to A to B is pleasing and sets up the ear for a plagal cadence IV-I, A to D, but while the melody resolves to the D (the actual tonic) the last chord is the relative minor chord, Bm, to the tonic, D. The 3 is the Bm is D, so the tonic note is still in the chord, and, is fact, the note that gives the chord it’s minor-ness.

@jordenpeterkin7322 4 года назад

I've been thinking about this exact type of chord progression in Resonances by TM Revolution. It seems to be in A lydian in the bass line and Db minor in the vocal melody.

@nathanielatkin304 4 года назад

is it not just subbing in the I for the 6m? Ab Bb Cmin is pretty much Ab Bb Eb, which is very functional. Even if its not completely tonic, the 6 chord has tonic function, so theoretically it makes sense to me. If anything, a loop of Ab Bb C is less functional because C is non diatonic in the key of Eb.

@AlexKnauth 4 года назад

That thing about the IV chord having rhetorical tonic function in that context makes sense, and I don't remember anything specific, but I feel like a lot of songs I've heard have used IV that way, as a stable place instead of subdominant, especially when they lean into the key-root / chord-5th at the same time

@caterscarrots3407 4 года назад

Really? I mean, I have heard the IV sound restful, but usually that's because of one of 2 things: 1) The piece of music just modulated to the IV and so IV becomes I 2) The piece of music uses a lot of plagal motion and very little dominant function, i.e. there are I IV I alternations all over the place

@Tsskyx 4 года назад

This CP is similar to the famous four chord CP, the I V vi IV (with the I excluded and everything starting on the IV). And indeed, if you treat the first chord as a IV, then playing a I sounds like a return to the home chord. My friends use the phantom CP all the time when composing quick music. It's essentially a songwriter progression - just strum it on the guitar a couple of times (even better if you use sus chords!) and you've got yourself a neat powerful emotional tune that can be looped indefinitely because it never properly resolves. In my opinion, a song doesn't need to play the tonic chord in order to establish the key, it can imply it through using dissonant chords or playing most of the notes of the key throughout its duration (this CP plays the entirety of the major scale, even though it never explicitly plays the I chord).

@musicmangm7572 4 года назад

I love your videos and I thank you for making them.

@wellurban 4 года назад

Very interesting, thanks! I learned bits of functional harmony as a kid, but I never found it that useful as I preferred the sound of natural minor, and most of the “progressions” I gravitated towards didn’t have strong dominant/tonic resolutions. Watching your videos over the last couple of years has helped me both learn more about functional harmony and why it’s important, but also why it seems less directly useful for many genres of music that I like. In this example, it seems like we might think of it as the melody being in the relative major of the harmony, or the harmony being in the relative minor of the melody (I might have that wrong). If so, it might explain why this seems so natural, and why it might be a good way to have the brightness of major without the cheesiness, and the seriousness of minor without the gloom.

@eugenefrancisco8279 4 года назад

Bob Seger’s “night moves” also has a bridge where he uses that progression. Eb is the tonic for most of the song, but in the chorus, he uses this progression starting on Ab going to Cm, and then resolving back to Eb.

@chrisharrison809 4 года назад

I’m pretty sure they’re just thinking D major. 136 are tonic. It’s just subbing the tonic.

@mikhaildsouza5635 4 года назад

I've been thinking of this progression a lot recently.....thanks for the the insight. when I play this, I tend to add a iii or a III7 to it at end tho, which somehow make the first chord in the loop(IV maj) sound a lot more like home( idk why tho)

@jacky35487 4 года назад

What if we hear the vi chord as resolved because we're actually hearing it as a fifthless tonic chord with a sixth added? It's a very familiar and stable sound to most people and it would explain why it feels so resolved. It would also put us strongly in D major. That's how I hear it at least

@bagelman2634 4 года назад

Yeah, I hear it as a Imaj6 just voiced without the 5th and the maj6 in the bass

@TypingHazard 4 года назад

Yeah I came here to say something similar. Imaj6 and vi7 are basically the same chord in jazz, this is just chord substitution minus one note. It's like Cockney rhyming slang in musical form

@in_the_wake 4 года назад

An interesting song you could analyze that plays with multiple tonic centers within different modes in the same key signature is "The Only One" by Transit. The verse has a very dark, brooding sound due to the harmony being in F Dorian before switching to Eb Major (Ionian) for the chorus (and you could make a weak argument for it going to C minor for the bridge) all while the melody stays in Eb Major, which clashes nicely with the F Dorian. A really good instance of the music painting the story along with the words.

@charlesdtall1954 4 года назад

Hey! I haven't read this paper you're referencing in this video yet, but I'm wondering if it mentions (and if you've checked out) Paul Hindemith's theory of music. In his first music theory textbook/treatise, he talks about a "melodic degree progression" and a "harmonic degree progression" that are analyzed independently of each other and then compared to each other for compatibility. This seems to tie in quite a bit to this hybrid tonality...

@GelidGanef 4 года назад

I literally wrote a song with this chord progression this morning. I loved how pop it felt, without feeling passé. But I had serious trouble figuring out how to set up resolutions or key changes.

@charlesfloyd3747 4 года назад

You could also look at the Bmin chord as an inverted D6 with no 5

@nathanielatkin304 4 года назад

yes, or just the 6m of D major, which has tonic function. If you look at it that way, it makes complete sense.

@juansaavedra145 4 года назад

Nathaniel Atkin it makes sense because it’s just a deceptive cadence, but that’s not the point of the video. Cory is talking about the conflicting types of resolutions, because even though both vi and I feel resolved, they feel completely different, and it wasn’t that common to have 2 different keys working together non-politonally. That’s the thing

@nathanielatkin304 4 года назад

@@juansaavedra145 yes, except he makes a comparison between b6 b7 1 and b6 b7 m1 as if the latter makes less sense theoretically.

@juansaavedra145 4 года назад

Nathaniel Atkin yeah, fair point hahaha I mean, he admitted he used this as an excuse to talk about the Mario cadence, which still doesn’t validate things 🤷🏻‍♂️ but yeah, I guess you’re right in that sense

@gwalla 4 года назад

When you mentioned lydian, that reminded me of how in medieval practice (AIUI) the range of a mode and its "final" were related but the relationship depended on the type of mode: in "authentic" modes the final was the lowest note of the range (like how we usually think of scales now) but in "plagal" modes the final was a fourth above the lowest. That looks kind of related to what's happening here, though medieval music didn't use chords per se. Is the Chainsmokers' tune a tonal use of hypodorian? Does what I'm saying even make sense?

@badger-6377 4 года назад

A form of polytonality actually was very common in pop music for decades, and still shows up in mainstream rock music. Blues harmony is a polytonal (I guess you'd more accurately call it polymodal) structure that superimposes parallel major and minor scales on top of each other, playing elements of both simultaneously or switching between the two more-or-less at will--its particularly common to hear to contradictory thirds right up against each other in the same phrase (this is also the explanation for harmonically gnarly devices like the Hendrix Chord. which I hear and feel as a particular voicing of an E minor7-over-E major split chord rather than as the E7add#2 that its usually described as--though of course the latter is still a valid spelling, and easier to explain diatonically). I also think that the "everything is a dominant chord" aspect of the blues can be explained as the thirds of chords manifesting from the major scale while their sevenths manifest from the parallel minor. I believe that this polymodality is an emergent result of West African tonal systems (which feature neutral thirds and harmonic sevenths) being adapted to the western 12-tone system. I think that is more in line with how the old blues masters would have thought of it, but its worth noting that the method we teach new blues players today is a sort of vulgarized, simplified polymodality--one of the first tricks that guitar players learn is "play the minor pentatonic scale over major chords". I know this is only tangentially related to the video, but I feel like the harmonic sophistication of blues music is underappreciated.

@anonymous2181 3 года назад

Tbh after I realized how common the progression was in pop music, i always interpreted the first chord in the progression as having tonic function as a I chord in a lydian mode. Since it's in lydian, the I chord is still the key center, but the sharp 4 allows for the second chord to be a major II. I then saw the final iii chord as something that kind of resolves back to I since iii is just an I7 with Do ommitted, but still carries more tension by having that 7th above Do. Ig that way, the progression has very little harmonic movement but still shows glimpses of brighter chords and darker ones, telling a more light-hearted story as pop often does

@nickcharles6530 4 года назад

This is the first time I’ve heard this progression called the “Mario Progression”. In college we referred to them as the “God Chords”, because of the heavenly, epic implications experienced by the listener. I’m pleased to hear your explanation of this topic. Awesome!

@truecenter9159 4 года назад

Could this progression also be read as a I->II->iii? It could be that it is borrowing the major II chord from lydian (or even be in Lydian which I think is less likely) to get that deceptive cadence sound and using the C# to give it some more bite and also harmonize well with the chords underneath. The melody resolving to a D would then make even more sense because it is the 5th note and it belongs to the tonic chord but still doesn't sound resolved.

@ThiccMidgett 4 года назад

Ever heard a song go from IV V vi to tease a resolve, then to IV V I to actually resolve? I think it's like that except it never actually resolves. So I think it's in D.

@fashionkiller11 4 года назад

How about you do an episode about the band "Meshuggah" ? Their polymetric approach to music is really unique and would grant you the opportunity to talk and go deep about more rythm-based music, that lacks almost any tonal quality. This would be really interesting, since i haven't really hear you talk about musical concepts and theory in that regard. If you even read this, maybe an analysis for the song "Clockworks" would be interesting, especially for the guitar-drum interplay, that goes beyond our normal approach of what the respective role of instrument is.

@CGoody564 4 года назад

4:00-4:04 sounds fine to me... I don't hear tension pulling away from b...

@an_annoying_cat 3 года назад

Adam Neely did a video talking about polytonality and said that consonance is determined by the overtones of the chord, which means it goes a lot deeper than this

@scottblair8261 4 года назад

This seems pretty similar to Philp Tagg's four chord loop which I think you indirectly reference with Sweet Home Alabama, so I wonder if there's an implied D chord somewhere that creates a four chord loop.

@rmdodsonbills 4 года назад

"Is that better? I don't know, but it sounds fancier, so probably." Heheh

@yoverale 3 года назад

It could also be understood as a D6, if you want D to be the tonic. It’s not that far away. Here in Argentina there’s a lot of folkloric music whose melodies ends on the 3rd from the minor root. They are traditionally sung by 2 singers harmonizing in thirds, so 2nd voice sings the root, but recognized melody doesn’t.

@jakefisherrevenue7707 4 года назад

In the Chainsmokers example (just the small section that you played), it seems like the polytonality or hybrid tonality makes more sense by viewing it as a D major melody with a chord structure centered on the relative minor of D major, B minor. Since the 3 of the B minor chord is D, the B minor chord works as a de facto tonic. The G -> A run up to the B minor creates a nice movement that sets up what the ear might be expecting as a plagal cadence. And, in a sense, it kind of functions as a plagal cadence while adding the additional element of a three note (major second) ascending bass line So, it’s like a melancholy plagal, substituting the I for the vi as the tonic chord, I guess? Does that make any sense to anyone?

@class_ical1761 Месяц назад

Before I learned much about theory I always considered the major tonic and its relative minor to be the same key. I compose music, and I still find myself falling into this framework when coming up with chord progressions today. Back when I composed my first piece and showed it to my teacher, she pointed out that I had a modulation from Bb major to G minor in one section, and that blew my mind--it never occured to me that those two chords, despite both acting as tonic in those respective sections, weren't the same key. Not exactly sure how this factors into the larger discussion here but I think it's interesting to think about

@nathenewendzel1825 4 года назад

I have been playing clarinet for about 10 years. I've been wanting to compose a piece for my instrument. I can read and understand music very well, but I've never written music before. Any advice for a first time composer?

@WAValenti 4 года назад

I was writing a lot of IV V vi cadences in my songs almost 20 years ago. I think I was influenced by Shrek's use of Rufus Wainwright's cover of Leonard Cohen's song Hallelujah. You know, secret chords and all that. I just thought of them as deceptive cadences. But there's quite a lot of pop music from around 2008-2012 that uses harmonic motion that both 1) strongly emulates the grammar of traditional harmony, while also 2) avoiding perfect authentic cadences like the plague. My favorite example is Katy Perry's song Teenage Dream, which has a reciting tone on the melody on the tonic pitch, but doesn't have a single tonic chord in the entire song.

@ZipplyZane 4 года назад

I just don't see any problem with normal functional harmony here. From the start, I heard it as a deceptive cadence. I don't at all hear the G as tonic--it clearly resolves into the A which resolves to the Bm, which lasts longer and comes at the end, feeling more like home, bit still not all the way because of that D, making it the VIm chord. Yeah, there's no I chord. But that's fine in pop, since it likes to avoid full cadences, and it fits what I hear. The progression never sounds complete, unless I intentionally switch the Bm to a D. I've still yet to find a situation where I think this new framework is useful. And, no, not in Sweet Home Alabama, which is in D mixolydian, and ending on G requires a quick melodic key change to sound okay, while ending on D sounds natural after a G7 chord. But at least that one fits, even if I think the theory is unnecessary. This one requires the G to sound tonic, and I cannot hear that.

@pnarey 4 года назад

Rhetorical function? Okay, you finally got me. I'll often listen to the songs you talk about, but now I got to read the paper you're talking about. Thanks for including the link.

@NegativeReferral 4 года назад

You can apply the same theory to the quintessential 80s pop/J-pop progression, IV-V-iii-vi. It should technically be a minor progression, but it doesn't sound very minor.

@MisterAppleEsq 4 года назад

I looove that progression, if you keep the IV in the bass for the V chord you get a V7 with the seventh in the bass and it's just beautiful.

@RizalBudiLeksono 4 года назад

@@MisterAppleEsq me: VI-V/VI-III7/V#-vi

@meunomejaestavaemuso 4 года назад

You tell that to the judge!

@olympicmew 4 года назад

Wait, don't you mean IV-V-iii-vi?

@NegativeReferral 4 года назад

@@olympicmew Yes!

@caterscarrots3407 4 года назад

Does this "hybrid tonality" concept explain why I hear a C minor tonic when one line is in C minor and the other is in Eb major? That because Eb is the third of Cm and the C minor line keeps going back to C, even though on its own, the Eb line would sound like it is in Eb, together with the C minor line, it becomes part of that C minor sound?

@gabimeredith1 4 года назад

Caters Carrots Well Eb is just a mode of C minor so it’s more like modal interchange not hybrid tonality

@evanhodgson4141 4 года назад

could you theoretically force it into the key of D by saying that the Bm is just a D/B or Dmaj6/B chord? I know that would be pretty weak because the D doesn’t have a 5th, but it seems like a way to kind of cheese a perfect cadence in. idk I’m still relatively new to music theory so any feedback would be helpful :)

@MaggaraMarine 4 года назад

I don't think you need to call the last chord D anything. Instead, the progression is tonally ambiguous and that's kind of the point of it - it doesn't have a clear "direction" or strong resolutions. That's how a lot of pop music progressions work any way, because a lot of pop music uses chord loops. This is also why ending a song that just loops G A Bm with a G major chord may feel more natural than ending it with a Bm or D major chord. It's not because G sounds like the "home", but because ending the song strongly with the home chord would probably sound too final, when the whole song before that point has been more ambiguous tonally. If you want to see it in D major, just call it IV V vi and accept that it never finds the "home". And that's totally fine - that's what creates the tonally ambiguous sound. That's what makes the chord progression so "loopable" - it doesn't really sound strongly "at rest" at any point, so it kind of wants to keep going (which is what makes it ideal for looping). But I personally hear it as bVI bVII i progression. Still, not a very tonally strong progression. But that's also kind of the point - tonally strong progressions just aren't that common in modern pop. We don't need to find ways to make them conform to traditional tonal functions, because the thing is that these progressions don't really follow the traditional functional "rules" in a strict way. They are more tonally ambiguous, so we should appreciate that fact - they aren't even trying to establish the tonality that strongly. Modern pop harmony is many times used quite differently than classical common practice harmony.

@chiju 4 года назад

A song I've been interested in seeing analyzed is "Got Me Wrong" by Alice in Chains. The verse is very melancholic in spite of all the chords being major, and I usually attribute that to the bass line playing the Bb under the G chord (I'm not sure about the vocal melody). I think the lead guitar also leverages this duality by playing minor scales in some parts and major scales in other parts over the same progression, but honestly I haven't looked at it in a while.

@Marre2795 4 года назад

I think of it as just a deceptive cadence in D major. It always tries to resolve (harmonically with the IV V setup, and melodically by establishing D as the tonic), but never actually does it.

@yvancluet8146 4 года назад

I don't see the problem with G A Bm. It always felt like a resolution as satisfying as V -> I. I don't really get why deceptive resolution is considered weaker than a so called perfect cadence

@Marre2795 4 года назад

I find the perfect cadence more satisfying in terms of tension and release, and here's why i think that: With the perfect cadence, the root of the chord is also the root of the melody. The VIm has a different root than the melody, so there's still some unresolved tension. In addition, the major sixth is far more out there in the harmonic series (5/3, or (3/2)^3 if you're pythagorean) It feels similar to ending on the first inversion of the tonic. The first inversion of the tonic(D/F# in D major) feels like it wants to move somewhere, either to the IV(G), or the VIm(Bm), or even the IIm(Em) or the V(A).

@bassboneman3 4 года назад

I gave the original recording of Something Just Like This a listen. I noticed an ethereal, droning synthesizer D note playing through almost all of the song. To me, this gives the song a D Major flavor and makes the B minor chord sound kind of like a D6. It’s still fairly ambiguous, though.

@lucabardellemusic 4 года назад

Hi! First, I want to congratulate for the great contents you make. Then, the boring part: Probably, I just misunderstood something you said (I’m Italian), but I’d like to share my opinion. Bm could be interpreted as the Tp (in Italian “tonica parallela”, don’t know how to translate this) in the tonality of DMaj. In this case, there would be no problem (at least for me) saying that G= S (IV), A= D (V), Bm= Tp (VI with tonic [?] function) This could explain also why the “D” in the melody has both a tonic and a b3 function. Hope it makes sense (both grammatically AND theoretically) :-)

@seanoreilly968 4 года назад

Feels like a 4-5-1 progression, where Bm is substituted for D. The VI chord and III chord are extensions of the I chord, so Bm feels like home, but its really bringing your brain to D major (with a 13th). I think thats why the melody felt so right landing on D instead of B. Doesn't seem like theory can't explain this one, but maybe I'm missing the point? If we extend to 7th chords, all of these notes fit in Em7 - A7 -D6, so I think this is really just a 2-5-1, and we're analyzing the missing notes. But our brains are filling them in just fine when we're listening.

@attempt58 Год назад

I have a similar chord progression in one of my ukulele compositions, which is really cool because I practically knew nothing about theory at the time

@stephenkadoka8736 4 года назад

A lot of people in the comments here had great analysis and reasoning for their interpretations of the harmony on Closer by Chainsmokers. I thought y’all might enjoy a similar puzzle, same set of 3 chords, slightly different sequence (doesn’t reverse and go back down)- the song is Blurry by Puddle Of Mudd. It’s the same sequence of 3 chords, major, major, minor, each a whole step apart. But would you consider this one IV-V-vi that avoids the tonic I chord? My impression is that this song, Blurry is a different scale. Though it’s the same 3 chords again, I interpret this one as being flat6, flat7, i (minor tonic 1 chord) in order. I think is one example of the topic I brought up about having the same chord sequence but choosing to have one of the chords in the repeated seqence serve as be the tonic 1 chord & choosing a scale that includes all of the chord tones diatonically. Blurry doesn’t utilize a super unusual scale though, it’s just a minor scale. In the minor scale you have a major chord built on the flat 6, major chord built on the flat 7 degree, and a minor 1. So VI-VII-i Boom, blurry. Same three chords, different key different scale. I’m interested to analyze any other progressions if anyone finds another one to examine. It didn’t occur to me immediately that the chord sequence in Closer, (and Blurry) were diatonic in a minor key until I randomly played Blurry and noticed what key it was in. I was just playing along with whatever songs youtube recommended, Blurry came up and it happened to be the same 3 chords the Chainsmokers always use.

@jmonty2005 4 года назад

C'mon, Sweet Home Alabama is in D Mixolydian. D always sounded like home to me in that song. But, that's what is great about music. Everyone interprets things their own way

@StrangerHappened 4 года назад

*AS always,* this should be like three times longer videos for those who are not music theorists yet, but, of course, it is great anyway.

@PragmaticAntithesis 3 года назад

Am I the only one who thought the resolution to B at 4:01 felt better than the original? I think it might be because I'm used to hearing the flat VI chord used to introduce a minor key because of how common it is in modern Japanese music, so following that up with a backdoor resolution feels natural (probably because I've heard it before). Meanwhile, the D in the original felt very uncomfortable to me, which makes sense in the context of it being a minor 3rd.

@johntate6537 4 года назад

To me it seems more like an interrupted cadence, or even just a substitution of the relative minor. The tonality hovers around D but never resolves because that would anchor the song in the major tonality too strongly. The relative minor is closely related enough not to make anything sound too strange. And I suppose if the song ends on a key other than the 'tonic' that never appears, you could think of that as a weakened variety of progressive tonality - a sense of resolution without the need to return to the original home chord.

@tru7hhimself 4 года назад

interesting. just today i tried to analyse a trance track and while the root was definitely b all melodies and chords always come back to f#. it seems i have also stumbled upon an example of "hybrid tonality" there.

@mamboonthetube7652 4 года назад

theory noob, sorry if this is a stupid question. would it be wrong to interpret the Bm as an inversion of Dmaj6 without the fifth? since the triad would be 1 3 6 and the 1 at the end of the melody would reinforce that

@johno378 4 года назад

Dmaj6 without the 5th is basically Bm and if you interpret it that way, then go ahead I say. But how would you notate it? D6no5 for example or just Bm? The latter is way more straight forward.

@MaggaraMarine 4 года назад

It wouldn't be "wrong", but I wouldn't see the point, because what we hear in the song is not a strong V - I resolution in D major, so trying to call it that kind of misses the point. The progression isn't strong, so either calling it a deceptive resolution (V-vi) or an "Aeolian cadence" (bVI bVII i) makes more sense. It's not a strong progression, so trying to make it seem like it's a strong V - I progression is kind of misleading.

@nickmonks9563 4 года назад

I think Occam's Razor is in play here. The song is in Bm. Resolving to the third is just a way to help us loop the pattern, where resolving on B would be too definitive a resolution. The rest of the analysis on this as a hybrid model isn't really useful. I did keep thinking, however, it would be interesting to force it into a hybrid or ambiguous model (surely Radiohead has done this with this pattern on something.) And just for the record, Sweet Home Alabama is in D. It has always been in D. Ignore the C as little more than a dominant 7 transition chord to give you that "bluesy" feel, and you have "I - IV"...pretty straightforward. We can ask, "then why doesn't it ever feel resolved", and the answer is, "because it's I - IV". The IV chord is fairly weak for the turn around, and it's the repetition that seems to reinforce the apparent confusion. I've always thought you could sing the melody of Sweet Home Alabama with just the D chord and not much would change about the song.

@nugboy420 Год назад

3:46 saying final and using the buster sword (or another of cloud’s)

@campsjams 4 года назад

Why is G the bVI in Bm and not just the VI?

@damianflores1294 Год назад

isnt it just relative modulation? chord progression in Bmin but melody in Dmaj so theres a duality with the modes within the same key signature

@Orlymusicboy 4 года назад

If you're not hearing G A Bm as bVI bVII i because you hear D as the tonic, surely you can read it as IV V vi in D, which seems like a clear interrupted/deceptive/false cadence?

@briansullivan3424 4 года назад

I don't know if I've ever heard "Sweet Home Alabama" and the word "fancy" in the same sentence before. Well done!

@VeraLycaon 4 года назад

I like this idea, but I partially disagree with your analysis here, personally! To me at least this very much sounds like a progression that's simply rooted in Lydian *period*, with the melody simply recontextualized by that; I've done some musing on exactly this sort of thing myself and the conclusion I came to was essentially that while traditional functional harmony still applies here to an extent (in that there's a clear tonic-subdominant-dominant loop going on between the vi, IV and V chords), featuring IV as the start of the progression and as the essential root of the rest of the song grants that chord 'tonic' function within the context of the song itself, the V 'subdominant' and the vi 'dominant' function in turn - what matters is whether the cycle is preserved, not the specific traditionally assigned functions themselves. Building from that idea, this is also why the ol' four chords of pop (I-V-vi-IV) as well as other similarly diatonic progressions (e.g. the I-vi-IV-V '50s progression or the I-vi-ii-V 'rhythm' changes) continue working more or less the same way (while communicating very different moods) regardless of which chord you start out from. You could probably work this out further still and just say you can substitute any of these chords with another of the right type (I, iii and vi for tonic, IV, ii for subdominant and V, vii˚ for dominant), then start from whichever point in the progression you like, pretty much. TL;DR: honestly, I don't think the melody has a whole lot to do with it and as far as far as I can tell from my own noodling around with it, it's probably possible to take this idea a lot further.

@critshazy 4 года назад

To add to my response where I called this Aeolian, I would definitely agree with Vera if the melody found rest on G and/or if the loop came to a rest on the G chord (not all chord progressions end at the top of the progression)

@AtomizedSound 4 года назад

So, did we say it’s “Hybrid Tonality” or its really just a mode such as G Lydian?

@goodlookingcorpse Год назад

This progression looks similar to the 'Royal Road progression', common in Japan, which is IV7 V7 iii7 vi (again without a I).

@hobbified 4 года назад

Can you apply hybrid tonality theory to any songs off of Hybrid Theory?

@Suave26 4 года назад

Is harmony the same as melody? And is a hook the same as a chorus?

@clementletard1308 4 года назад

lmao Cloud's sword on the word "final" good job sir

@orochimaruginju6868 4 года назад

Never a bad video from you

@robertjones9598 3 года назад

I'm totally confused. Jimi Hendrix "Hey Joe" uses this right? Even "She's Electric" by Oasis has this three major chords in a row thing. I realise it's not rigid adherence to diatonic mode. Isn't this just modulation or switching keys? Still totally confused.

@MidnightSt 3 года назад

4:00 for me, if you swap the last note in something just like this melody for B, it sounds so final that I would have no idea how to continue a song where I've just written that =D

@ZMaine 4 года назад

What about Dmi6/B (no 5)

@planepantsgames1791 4 года назад

Kiss on My List, by DH&JO is the perfect for this, but to me its always very flat6, flat7, minor1

@andylatham4277 4 года назад

I'm currently writing a song with those three chords prominently used. I think if it as G lydian. The melody also makes prominent use of the D and C# notes.

@jakegearhart 4 года назад

There's an easy solution to this: Gmaj -> Amaj -> Dmaj6 It's an inversion of D major 6 and you omit the 5 so you can use it later for a more dramatic resolution.

@cineblazer 4 года назад

2:46 *I mean, if you say so... recreational music theory guy.*

@evanmcguire5787 4 года назад

Love your videos!

@loganwilbur5131 4 года назад

The F#m (vii) chord in the chorus also indicates Lydian

@jvcouk 4 года назад

Sounds like a straightforward progression in terms of intervals, but it becomes tangled in the context of music theory. I found a possible 1988 example: I'm Not Scared, by the Pet Shop Boys [YT: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-55ZjdZDQqpw.html]. I'm not sure if they use exactly the same progression, though they use it both as a setup for meanderings, and as resolution, with a few melody variations within limitations, and some unconventional basslines. Further on, there are downward-progressing inversions of the same chords, and subtle variations within that tease. It's one I can listen to repeatedly without feeling I've exhausted it, though some segments are somewhat mechanical.

@MaggaraMarine 4 года назад

I would have a problem with calling the G A Bm progression "G Lydian". I just can't hear G as the "home" of that progression. Yes, ending a song on the G chord would be pretty natural, but that's not because the G sounds like home. I think it's actually the opposite - ending it on Bm would feel too final (especially after you loop the same chords over and over again, it would feel like a too final ending - it's kind of like ending a piece that isn't really based on traditional functional harmony with a clear V - I cadence, which would just sound very awkward). Ending it on G on the other hand leaves it open - it has kind of the same effect as a fade out or a sudden "cut ending" would have (both of which are common in pop music). Ending a tonally fairly ambiguous progression strongly would just sound awkward, and tonally strong endings just aren't a common thing in modern pop music. I do like the idea of there being separate layers to music. The melodies in pop music don't necessarily follow the harmonies that closely any way - they may just use the notes in the "tonic pentatonic scale" over all chords, basically disregarding the whole chord progression. I also read an article that talked about the chords and the bassline being separate layers in a lot of pop songs. A song may actually be based on one or two basic chords (like I and IV), but the bassline plays different notes below those chords, creating some weird "extended chords". For example the tonic chord with the 4th in bass is pretty common - this creates an IVmaj9(no3) chord, but if you see the chords and the bass as different layers, it's simply the chords and the bass implying different harmonies at the same time, a bit like the melody and the chords may imply different tonalities. Also, when it comes to the Sweet Home Alabama progression, regardless of the melody, I hear it as I bVII IV that is a very common rock progression - I don't see the reason to regard it as "hybrid tonality", but I know some people also hear the progression as V IV I. On paper it does look like V IV I, but when I listen to the chords on their own, I always hear it as the "AC/DC progression" I bVII IV (that you can also hear in songs like Back in Black, It's a Long Way to the Top, Highway to Hell... most AC/DC songs, actually, but also in other songs like Just Like Paradise, Born This Way, Sympathy for the Devil, With a Little Help from My Friends, and countless others).

@dougsauceda1805 3 года назад

I honestly just hear it as a IV V vi. It's a deceptive cadence, or at least that's how I've used it before. If most of a song sounds like it's in D, but then you end it on Bm, that's just a fun subversion of expecations.

@nugboy420 Год назад

I do like the melody with the b at the end.