The Names of Odin's Ravens 

This makes me think of how in modern English we poetically talk about knowing things in our "heart and mind", where the implication is that the "heart" holds our deep yet nebulous instincts and intuition, where the "mind" is for more specific semantic recall and logical thinking. It's easier to list a constellation of connotations the two words hold than to strictly define them, though. I can imagine a future civilization attempting to understand our use of the phrase "heart and mind" and similarly struggling with how literally and specifically to interpret this poetic coupling of ideas.

This drives home for me how important it is to take into account the time period you are studying and the evolution of language. You can't necessarily apply modern meaning to words from a long time ago simply because they sound familiar to you. Language evolves like everything else. Thank you Dr. Crawford!

In danish we also have the word hukommelse which translates into memory. It is intersting to note that the Danish word is a composite of Hu and komme (meaning to come). So literally the meaning is more something like "come into mind" or "come into consciousness". In old style Danish you do still get the two words separately - "I hu komme" or "at komme i hu"

Just this morning, I was discussing Odin's ravens with my children... here's what happened: a bird was loudly calling at us, and my daughter started talking back, so, my son got all huffy and called her an idiot because she was shouting at birds, and something along the lines of them having bird brains and definitely not able to communicate anyway. So, I interjected that even if they couldn't speak to us in caws, they could be gathering information, I ended, that is seemed silly to us, but many people believe that birds could be the eyes and ears gathering information... anyway, all that to say that it is not everyday one discuses the significance of ravens, and then I get to hear more about it! It just seemed a cool, notable coincidence to me.

Odin is so driven by Ragnarok - it is somewhat poignant to think of him as possibly being fearful of losing his 'will' to continue marshaling his forces and preparing for that apocalyptic battle. The loss of his will would be tantamount to losing himself. Thank you for providing another way to understand "Huginn' and 'Muninn"!

I always go with the thought and memory meaning from Grim 20. However, hearing this video, it’s very possible it meant “I am worried my courage (to fight, to travel, To carry on) will not come back, but I worry more my desire (to live, to fight, to carry on) won’t come back.

I've always interpreted those stanzas as Odin (a personification of consciousness) expressing its fear of ceasing to be, of losing its essence (hugr) and dying being less haunting than the thought of one losing their mental faculties and memory (both being incorporated into muninn) but remaining alive as a shell of what they once were. This was very interesting. If there's one thing linguistics has taught me, it's that - much - is lost in translation and time.

When one is depressed, duty can be the force that keeps one going when there is no desire to be fulfilled.

Very interesting! In modern Norwegian we also have an expression "å komme i hug" , which means somewhat to remember by way of "it will come to my thought". The expression isn't in much use now, but you will find it in literature and songs. So the connection between thought and memory are still very closely linked in this expression.

Between myself and my other half three of our parents and another relative have had dementia in recent years. I can well understand Odin's fear of losing his memory and other aspects of his mind, even more so considering Norse attitudes to those enfeebled by age. Indeed it's those other aspects that I think are encompassed by Huginn and I note Faroese has several words derived from hugi that describe them.

Interesting to think that Odin is in two trinities of names with meanings connected to the mind - with his brothers Vili and Ve he's in Wodinaz-Wiljo-Wiha, inspiration-will-spirit. And with his ravens it's inspiration-thought-memory (or whatever mental/emotional/spiritual meanings they had at the time).

While you were speaking of Grimnismal stanza 20 and the loss of will relating to depression, etc... I thought of a thing I read in Havamal, specifically stanza 55: "You should be only a little wise, never too wise. A wise man's heart is seldom glad if he is truly wise". Could one lose one's will if he were to become truly wise? It might be an interesting internal conflict, for even a God, if his pursuit of his desire (wisdom) might ultimately be the destruction of his spirit. Sort of a "be careful what you ask for, you might get it situation". One man's thoughts anyway. Thanks for bringing up the linguistics... that seem to point at philosophy; I'll have something to puzzle over while shoveling snow this morning!

Great vid. I like your Patreon supporter's idea and your discussion of it - it kind of broadens the definition. Thought and Memory - or the desire for the rewards of thought and memory? And it extends it beyond simply mental capacity into physical capacity too: not just the idea of sexual impotence, but of lack of ability to do anything you used to (I started walking with a stick in September last year. I'm hoping it's temporary, but I can't stop thinking of how much I used to love walking, that now I can't do it, and I'm feeling like a proper old fogie). Also love your description of depression. The world would be a better place if everyone understood it that well.

I love the fact that you make all your Videos in natural places. It gives them a special flavour 🤗

Thank you for the awesome, free, consistently quality content

I see grimnismal stanza 20 as a reference to reincarnation. Othinn saying he doesn’t fear as much for his soul but fearing more that he won’t have his memories in the next life

I think the generalized concepts of spirit and mind work well. They have a similar broadness of meaning. Being afraid of losing your spirit but more afraid of losing your mind also works.

A really fascinating investigation into etymology and linguistics. Thank you for sharing!

Your uploading a lot recently! thnaks! :)

super interesting video as usual - and a great question, too. Kudos to the patron who posed it.

In ancient greek the same root mn/mēn may mean [perhaps the very verb "mean" in english comes from it] both "memory" as in μνημοσύνη, μνήμη, and "will", "desire" as in μένος, which however means also "vigour" "power" and "rage" "grudge" in the word μηνις, that Homer used for Achilles' wrath. It is also the root of μανία (folly, madness) and of sanskrit "mantra" among many other words. I find very interesting that the root Connects projection into the past (memory) with the future (will). If I were to sum up the many derived meanings in the different indoeuropean languages I would say the root *men denotes a human internal faculty, connoted by its being capable of content; it is the inner side of man whenever it is focused on something, whenever it contains an image or a specific will.

I really like your interpretation of Odin's fear that his ravens might not return

I appreciate your power of focus, Mr. Crawford. Thank you for your work.

Awesome topic for today.

How have I only discovered you NOW?? Thank you so so much for sharing all your hard earned knowledge ❤

Glad to see that you seem well. The Wild fires worried me for you.

Being able to remember the past is important for a sense of self but it's also important to keep your desire or will to act in the here & now & create a (hopefully) better future

«Eg mune veta» - «I would like to know». Still exists in that meaning in some Norwegian dialects. More common is «minne, minnast» meaning memory.

It´s been a while since we got video where i can clearly hear the doc! It makes me feel so nostalgic for the old days! XD

Fascinating, as always...Will would be more important to survival than memory.

Hugad in Swedish means interested, wanting, willing

Interesting that "huglauss" means "cowardly" in old Norse; the direct descendant in modern Swedish, "håglös," means "despondent." "Håg" is sometimes used as an archaic or dialectal word for "will," "att komma i håg" (roughly "to come into mind") is a common way to express your memory of something, and to be "hugad" is to have your mind set on something or to be eager to do something. (Also saw some other commenters bring up more uses of the word "håg" in compounds, and depending on the specific compound/idiom it can imply ether "mind" or "will." Note also that in the specific example of "håglös," "håg" seems tom mean the same thing as "munr" does in "Munin," and in Swedish Danish and Norwegian alike either word can be used as memory, so they do indeed seem to be somewhat overlapping.)

I have raven head "busts" on my office wall, looking down on my workspace. As I age, that verse comes more and more to mind.

Thank you for this analysis! A lot of interesting things to think about. I always love the deep digs into how words can change meaning and intent through history.

Jeg er så glad for dine videoer og glædes over dine udtagelser. I denne video er jeg dog noget irriteret over baggrundsstøjen fra vandfald.

The surviving relic of the verb "muna" in Danish is the archaic modal verb "monne" which either expresses a presumption or a doubt about something. Its present tense "mon" has now turned into an adverb which basically turns a sentence into a question. And some sort of adjectival form also survives in the extremely archaic epithet of king Erik II Emune, the "ever-memorable".

Fascinating. This adds even more nuance.

Subject matter is deep. Certainly is good there's some ambiguous air to it. Thank you. Definitely have much to think about. Blessings to you and your family.

Possibly like Id vs. Ego , or " reptile brain " vs. " Mammal brain " or Logical Intelligence vs. Emotional Intelligence.

Thank you very much. You are a good teacher. Very helpful at this moment.

I’ve always believed it to be a natural way to look at life through and old man’s mind. Fearing that with advancing age, the faculties diminish. Who are we who have lost thought? Who are we who begin to lose our memories? What’s left of us old folks when our brains begin to decline? I’ve seen it up close enough times to know it can be a fate worse than a living hell. Trapped in your own mind, and the “awareness” that you are trapped, is a double-fold torture.

Swedish 'mana' (vb) "incite, exhort" does express desire and will.

When I was a child my Grandmother had a memory game I loved to play called husker do. Now I know what it meant

So interesting and informative, I love the details about the history of the language and how this might affect the translation. It seems Old Norse is as multiply nuanced as some English? Thank you

This is great.

This reminds me of how 'thinking about' and 'liking/desiring' can seem interchangeable in some Nordic languages... like, in modern Swedish, to say you like something/someone, you use 'think about' - *ticker om* - "Jag ticker om [insert noun here]", meaning "I like [noun]" or literally "I think about [noun]" 🙂

Congratulations for 200 000 subscribers :)

I would like to reach out and say how much I appreciate your videos, this video is again so well balanced, it picks up on a curiosity probably many people (incl. myself) have, it goes into the material, at quite a lot of depth, but not too much, it comes out the other end with a conclusion, that is not a decision but a new way of thinking - great! Seeing these videos from Germany is something specific too, here one is quickly labelled right wing, fascist or whatever, just because one is interested in these things. that is why I have not gone into this stuff for many years. Your channel made me reconsider, and I am very thankful for this. Also I used some of the knowledge provided by you for one of my columns I put out on my homepage, it's about Odin stealing the mead of poetry, and some of the advice he gives on consumption of alchohol, in my article I link this up with the 75th birthday of David Bowie, which seems to work somehow. Many regards and carry on! Bastian flimmern

Curiously, one of the most strong words for a coward in Portuguese is "pusilânime" wich comes from Latin pusilis anima or small soul, small spirit or something like that. By the way could you do an episode about the Lombard and their story about odin granting them victory over the vandals and giving them their own name as a people? I think that would be a very interesting one.

i need to re-read the edda with what you learn me, fortunatly it is in my book collection.

I want to hang out with Jackson. Go to a single action cowboy gun event and discuss norse myths. Would make for a fun day.

In magic they have conveyed to myself 'Intention, also blade alongside thought . Which makes perfect sense really. With memory it was more conveyed as change, memory being a part of this. Lot's of other information also. Great upload thank you. All the best from Cornwall England.

As soon as I heard the alternative translation of "desire" years ago, it made more sense to me. Odin is many things, the most essential one in my mind being the archetypal shaman. A shaman is a spiritually evolved person, and spiritual evolution correlates directly with a balanced mind. I frequently see Odin symmetrically flanked by his wolves and ravens (even Sleipnir is doubled in this way with his 8 legs), representing the central consciousness (ie Brahman) to whom particularities are adjunct, and the balancing of our mental faculties is what makes us truly human, or more than animal. Thought and Desire present a beautiful polarity of higher and lower consciousness, the essential dichotomy brought into union by the spiritual adept, and the shaman in particular. Although Memory and Desire would also bring in the past/future polarity more perfectly (again, being in the Eternal Now is one aspect of spiritual attainment), Thought and Desire also suggest this dimension. The fact that Thought and Desire leave Odin every day is very much like what is described by advanced meditators, something I can attest to myself. Fearing more for Munin not coming back seems to me less like an old man fearing the loss of his memory, but a shaman whose consciousness has extended so far out that his desire/will to engage with the physical world is leaving him. The end of desire is literally the goal of the Buddhist path, but I know of several individuals, myself included, who have experienced this diminishing of desire as a negative or frightening thing. It correlates to the death of the ego, and the ego fears death and is breathed into life by desire. Therefore, I find the reading of the last stanza as an advanced shaman approaching Enlightenment with some trepidation much more likely than some old guy going senile. Balancing the polarity of Thought/Memory 🕊 and Desire 🦅, both are gradually extinguished and the True Self of God within the shaman is revealed 👁 Thanks again for your wonderful work. Blessings of Odin upon you 🙏 ✨ ❤

Thank you for this! I admit these might be the two norse characters I cherish the most. Heathens with depression in the houseeee.

in norwegian . . we say "mon tro" . . (with the meaning "i may believe") where "mon" is from the verb "monne" which according to "Det Norske Akademis ordbok" is derived from old norse "munu" :-)

This was so interesting

The hugr-as-courage bit reminds of Latin and lots of Romance languages (e.g. Spanish), where anima also means soul/spirit/“that which animates/drives the body,” but you can do something “de animae” (de almas), which means courageously

I love your work! It is wonderful.

I was just wondering about this! Alright!👊👊

Nice sweater.

I grew up in Sweden right next to the Norwegian border. There I heard an expression that I haven't heard since I moved away. ”Jag höger” namely; ”I hugir,” which means "I remember". This must be a very old word that remained in the local dialect and has long since disappeared from modern Swedish. To remember the name of one of the ravens of Odin, I have always used this word.

I think its similar to ancient Greek or Pali metaphysics. English lacks the ability to properly translate certain things. We think of the mind soul spirit thought consciousness as all one thing when these older languages broke them down with more nuance I believe. It's interesting Muninn Saka Muni. Saka Muni (Buddha) means Scythian sage so it seems obvious to me theres an etymological link there to an older source. Could be wrong, thought I'd mention it

Good Dag 🌞 Dr. Crawford I was curious if you have a video in your vast library of videos on the old Norse view of Reincarnation? all the best ᛒᚨᛚᛞᚢᚱ

I must add here that I have interpreted this part as Odin is afraid of be forgotten meaning not be worship anymore - you put your thought to the god and you pray to it with your mind. So he sends out the ravens to look around on whom that are still worshiping him and they come back telling him of those and what they wish. When they do not return is the day people forgot him - huginn - and stop worship him and no pray comes - muninn.

Well done

We're bombarded with these images of early Scandinavians being almost more bear-like than human, (Vikings, berserker, etc.) but here we see deep subtlety of thought. It shines a different light on them.

I was talking to my brother about Thor and Odin and how we need both of them because Thor is our mother the one who protects us from evil and harm and Odin is more of the father figure that lets us go out there and get ourselves hurt although Odin can be a bit of an a-hole we need the balance of both gods I suppose and Odin kind of works in his own self-interest we can understand that because he needs warriors for Ragnarok but you can appreciate each one for what they give us

There's a Muhammad Ali interview where he is asked if he has a bodyguard , he says my god sees all and hears all yet he has no ears and no eyes he is mind and memory. Always thought could there be a link between all religions and one creator concept.

Way off in Left field is As Gaeilge… huigeann(understanding) agus(and) muinínn(trust) I just thought it was odd, and they might be completely unconnected. But it’s possible considering the Norse and Gaeilge intermingled histories and lingual connections. Of course I could be full of shite too. And this video was great!

i would support you when i can :(

I was also interpreting and idea of the word desire the desire for knowledge. His Odin has been known to do whatever it took to gain it's, which could lead to Madness

I had always heard it was hindsight and forethought.

Those ancient people may have divided concepts differently. For instance I may intend to iron my shirts tomorrow or I may intend to lie on the sofa reading a book. Calling these by the same name is slightly misleading in the latter case I simply act according to my preferences. In the former I have a will to do what is necessary, but if it weren't necessary I wouldn't do it. One may divide thought in the same way.

Very interesting video. It made me think shareable thoughts, so here it goes: It's worth considering that this was not a literate culture, and thus the ability to remember would be much more important in every aspect of life than in our modern world. What to us would be entertaining party tricks, would to them be crucial survival skills, e.g. remembering when to plant crops, what was decided at the thing nine years ago, or how to navigate distant shores based on stories the old man told you when you were young. And then there is the fabric of culture and society, all the tales of past deeds, legends, myths and genealogies, the latter being the base of all claims to the land. All in all, I suspect that the stories about Huginn and Muninn are not just some funny sidestory, but had a much richer meaning back when they were told rather than read. Along with Mimer, they may even represent the very essence of Odin.

So _muna_ could be similar to the English phrase "bring to mind".

Thanks!

I have always thought of them as being the same but can separate or split into two when needed, a mirrored image of one idea, The names seem to overlap like they were his thought and spirit or thought and mind projecting away from himself as shaman's are known to do usually in animal form, or in this case his raven(s). It would explain why Odin fears that Hugin and Munin might not return to him. If Odin as a shaman and highly experienced in seidr would Astro-project himself in animal form such as the raven or ravens and something were to happen to one or both of them he would lose that part of himself as they were simply an extension.

Maybe something a kin to: The fear of losing one's mind/memory, but the greater fear of losing one's memory AND/OR the ability to create new memories. For the longest while, I thought "Hugin" and "Munin" meant "thought/memory" and "difference" (usual meanings in modern faroese). While the one raven went out and told him about the world, the other would tell him how it differs from last time/how it has progressed. In any way, "thought/memory" and "difference/progress", in the word "munr", has a connection, as seen in modern icelantic/faroese. At least, I'd assume so. On another note, the word "tenke" (or other forms, in modern scandinavian), meaning "think", comes from lower german. In modern danish/norwegian "huske/hugsa" means to remember, but in faroese/icelantic it means to think. With the "new" word from lower german, I assume they (danes?) could "specialize" "huske/hugsa" then, to "remember". In modern faroese/icelantic, we use "minnast" for 'remember' (same as 'mind I'd assume). Related to "munr/muna" maybe? Edit one last time: 'Thinking' and 'remembering' probably wasn't/isn't that distinguishable?

'Geheugen' (Dutch word) translates to memory in English

Not being very knowledgeable I think that at least stanza 50 and 95 indicates how important desire/passion was (and still is for our wellbeing).

I am confused as to the functions of the ravens. One collects information (data?). The other does what? Processes it?

So basically Odin was astral projecting, but telling people his Raven friends were talking to him...

It feels to me like the words are referring to the higher self, higher knowing, remembering of the soul/spirit.

Oh, and BTW, please refer to yourself at least occasionally as "Dr. Crawford.". Not only have you earned that title, but also, this gives you the authority to speak about what you do and as you do.

Thank you very very much for this, and all your other videos! I really really appreciate them :) This is a very intresting topic and i enjoy the discussion and thoughts about it. I have a specific thought/question about stanza 20 of Grímnismál, which you quote and discuss towards the end of the video. You talking about your Alzheimer's/dementia interpretation made me wonder how much the Old Norse people would have known about these two things? I am not an expert, but as far as I know most cases of dementia are related to old age and the vast majority of affected individuals are older than 60 or even 70. How many people back in the times when the Eddic poems came to be would have lived that long? As far as i know, average life expectancy was much shorter back then, is that correct? So wouldn't most have been long dead before they could reach an age when dementia really could become a problem? In other words, would something like dementia and it's symptoms have actually been known? And even if so, how many people would actually have been aware of it, how many people would actually have cause to worry about that, how many would have actuall been affected by it? Would the topic really have been important and widespread enough for them to include it in their poetry and commit that inclusion to their "communal memory"? Please don't get me wrong, this is in no way meant to be criticism of the dementia interpretation, it has just made me genuinely curious about the life expectancy of the old Norse and about how being "elderly" was seen and experienced back then compared to how it is today. Especially in light of them being not too keen on dying of old age.

hello dr. I hope this is good, I have a doubt about a particular deity, since it is seen as a goddess or as a Valkyrie, I think it is written like this, Þjóðvarta. and there are no descriptions of how it is just that she is a healer. Thank you very much and greetings from Mexico

It could be that Odin, Hugin and Munin parallel the ancient Greeks (Plato's, IIRC) theory of the soul - Eros, Thymos and Logos. The image is a charioteer driving a chariot with a black and a white horse, i.e. Logos(Reason) reining in Thymos(spirit) and Eros(desire). One can make a comparison with Odin (the master, Reason) sending out in the world his thought/spirit(Hugin) and desire (Munin).

anything in norse mythology about eternal reoccurance?

Desire could very well be more specific and mean ambition.

What is the relationship between memory and desire/ will? I suspect the word means both. (Just for starters, one cannot desire something that one does not remember.)

Could odin and his ravens be where we get the modern idea of, Mind, body and spirt from. Huginn being spirit, muginn being mind and odin being the body? Just a thought.

Could it be intended double meaning?

When hugr and munr take the form of expressing desire does that mean that the the thing desired has consumed the entirety of the mind or soul?

we know this in dutch : heugen en menen what you're looking for is to enjoy :verheugen

So a good translation of the idea might be heart and soul?

Maybe the ravens give a signal to the bear or the Wolf Where was the victim to have a meal together later !!!

IMO, the "memory" is not only the personal variety, but also a "cultural" memory, like the history of a people.

Now that I think about it, isn't "muna" the verb to which German has formed the causative "mahnen"? Also Latin "monere" might be from the same root. The thoughts these languages want you to have when those verbs are used aren't the nice ones.

Ayy

Intrepidity and Ambition.