Something I didn't mention in the video is these were initially bugged and wouldn't fire at your point of aim when firing both guns simultaneously. That was fixed a couple of days ago and they are hitting exactly where you aim now.
Something you DID mention is that "scopes are completely useless" when there is a scope that improves all recoil and gun kick by 10%, with no cons for akimbo.
its still somewhat bugged.. often i get what seems like slug ammo when i dont have it loaded in. i shoot at a wall and only get one single pallet and basically never one or 2 shot then
Yes it is, though it’s extremely unforgiving so I think it’s somewhat fair. It frustrating to die to but it’s also frustrating to use when you regularly miss multiple shots in a row lol. I think SHG did a great job adding something totally new and unique, literally an akimbo sniper that is only a one shot kill if you hit dead center of the body. Very cool
@Deathmare235 Well the problem with the original models was that they didn't lose damage over range, which was unintended. When IW fixed that bug they went and drastically reduced the min range from 20m to 11m. And they reduced the max damage range to 5m
The pre patch 1887s legitimately could snipe people across invasion or wasteland with EASE. Imo if they buff the range and sprint out speed on the other shotguns that would make them not only more viable but more people would use them. The only time I see shotguns is on shipment almost exclusively
@zaneharris1562 No, they couldn't. The stats were datamined years ago on the DenKirson forums - the pre patch models had a 20m range, the bullets disappeared after that point. You can see this in Xcal's video where he tries but fails to get a hit from an ambitious distance
I didn't know if it carried over from MW2 but the shotgun exclusive scopes (one of them is unlocked with the over/under shotgun) tightens your spread a tiny bit and since stats stack it may be beneficial to use to help maintain a tiny bit more hip fire accuracy wile moving.
My man. The 762 was a beast in mw2 and is still and beast in this game. I will say if you like that gun try the Geist it has a tiny little bit faster ttk.
@@suqqmadiq2604 dont gotta tell my twice about the 762 brother haha. my weapon KD with that gun in MW3 is like 1.26/1.27. im pretty sure its my best AR stat too. higher risk, higher reward. in my opinion i think its criminally underrated too. i think the recoil turns a lot of people off from it along with a slower fire rate (undertanable), but if you put time into learning it, you feel unstoppable. i think i have a 15% headshot rate with it which is higher than my overall accuracy with the gun.
@@suqqmadiq2604The Geist is superior but the recoil direction is oppsite the 762, so will take a few hours to adjust fully. Also the Avancer might be better than both but small mag
@@Im__Andy-f6x JAK BFB Muzzle Demo-X2 Grip IG-K30 406MM Barrel 7.62x39MM High Grain Ammunition MK.3 Reflector thats the loadout I use. you can swap out the high grain rounds because it increases recoil BUT it gives you more 15% min/max range and 15% higher bullet velocity. It slaps hard bro. just play a little bit slower.
Took advantage of them being overtuned to get'em gold... Then I learned they were glitched and are now even better. I initially tought that was a balance decision to avoid reliable one-hit kills at too far a range, lmao.
Not gonna lie... I think they released the wardens like this as a TOTAL throwback to the M1887s. They're so OP right now, that absolutely reminds you of every aspect of those legendary M1187s. These things are absolutely hilarious to play with LMAO.
Eh we already have more than enough weapons. Just adding more would clog up the weapon pool and the aftermarket parts actually provide value/ an alternative use to guns than just clog up the weapon pool
@@TacitusKilgore-kh4we aftermarket parts give you weapon variety without actually clogging up the weapon pool 💀 I literally said they're a good thing BECAUSE they give more variety
@@EXQUIS1T3 What is "clogging" up the weapon pool? Is literally the same thing but worst because you have to use 1 attachment to "convert" that weapon. This is literally worst
I love pissing off people using the Warden Kit thinking they're tough shit. I'm a shotgun player even more so, I've been playing COD since WAW. I was there for the OG Model 1887 cheese lol (To clarify, I am also using the Warden Kit, I'm just simply better)
@@DustoVonSusto Wrong, you use an MCW because everything else is GA'ed, including the best snipers. It's a beam, but not only is the SVA better (especially after the MCW lost its 4-shot potential), snipers are far better as well. The sniper rifle is 100% comp for core MP: there's a reason they're so heavily restricted for CDL. Having a 1 shot TTK in a game that has increased TTK across the board for reg guns has made the game pretty wildly imbalanced. For casual play, where nothing is GA'ed, it's a pretty obvious choice.
I think they should just buff the other shotguns, especially the Bryson, to be more in line with their roles while the warden are the precious option for non slug shotguns, also a massive boost for slugs across the board
@@frederickbradley8255 It's crazy how the game is already at half it's life cycle yet the balancing is still horrendous for some weapons that should get straight damage buffs by 30%.
@DevlVergil they really need to look at the pick rate on guns, attachments, etc . If people are not picking certain things, they need to look and see why. Alot could be sorted out just by this. Some guns like the Stormender are just like, "Why is this even here if no one is using it."
Shotguns should have the worst sprintout time in the game, with the 1 hit kill potential they have. If you're at full sprint every gun in the game except spiners should be able to get some shots off before you do. Even lmgs should have a faster sprintout than shotguns. Too many kill cams I get with the shotgun literally pointing in the air
I really wish they gave us a single version because I loved running around with that thing just because you could do the overly exaggerated lever movement
I agree in that I definitely don't want these nerfed into the ground. They do need some tuning but I don't want them to be rendered useless. I want to use these whether they're good or not, and I don't want to be struggling to use them if they're useless.
The slug round seems like a textbook example of a well-designed gimmick: the headshot niche is adequately situational & unlikely to be pulled off consistently but the payoff of 1sk at any range is hefty enough to warrant in-depth skillful usage while still remaining fairly tamed otherwise (3 body shots at most ranges).
I don't know if they are too overpowered because hipfire aim speed is way faster, you can slow it down but but that will also mess with your aim. Those who are accurate at hipfiring will do well.
Yeah the shotguns are kinda ass in this game, I think they should be on the weaker side but they're definitely overbalanced at the moment (well, with the exception of this AMP).
Remember to put a scope on it so u will get improved range and drip. Edit: holy I was playing and wacthing this at the same time and I got a 178m kill with the slug in ground war
They just need to buff the other shotguns range potential and sprint out speed. The only one that doesnt need it is the haymaker jak kit because its already insane. I love the chaos these are bringing but the other shotguns have been neutered since launch and I think its time they get a buff
@@HowManyToasters that's not what I'm implying. I'm suggesting a 10-20% increase to range and 15% sprintout speed buff. Restricting shotguns on certain maps would also help avoid cancerous shipment games. If they do nerf the models the range should be 22 meters for a 2 shot kill.
@@HowManyToasters i hate shotguns too but you have to admit they're really weak in this game. like i think they have to be on the weaker side for the health of the game, but the scale is tipped too far in that direction
I also like putting the biggest possible optic just because it looks so goofy 😂 can’t wait to try these out after the buff (now I don’t have to alternate fire the guns)
I like using a sight with an integrated laser, instead of a using a laser from the dedicated slot. Alternatively, I like to use the Bryson Improved Choke to gain some spread; 1.4 minimum hipfire with laser or laser integrated sight. What I like most, is that enough time passed for people to know that this conversion exists. Unlike with the Jak Outlaw.
This gun is balanced and perfectly fine. Any nerf will make it useless. Since the video is out, they will nerf it to the ground, and no one will use it. 😢 We can't get a one-shot kill at that range once we move around. It is very hard to get one shot kill. Anyway, let's see what will happen to these.
I never thought they would bring back the models in all their op glory to mwiii. I missed the chance to run them in mw2 pre-patch, I won't lose it again.
They are just fine as is. I hate when they go nerfing everything when its good and fun to play with. Why not just buff the other shotguns and actually make them useable
Just for reference, each warden shoots 4 pellets (8 together) before mw3, a majority of shotguns fired 8 pellets. The range the wardens have is similar to the max range the model 680 had in mw19, but you had to aim down sight and be dead on accurate to get the one shot kill. It's not as crazy op as you guys think, it's basically the return of the mw19 model 680
Peak performance imo is running a scope on these as well as the laser and the crown muzzle, I know these are gonna get absolutely mutilated by a nerf soon but I'll be damned if this isn't some of the most fun I've had in a long time with Call of Duty
I think everyone wanted it to be broken for a month, but if they do balance it I also don't want them to destroy it completely..... i think 18m of 2 shot and 3.5m of 1 shot should be a fair balance and sprint to fire should remain how it is cuz it should be a redeeming factor among other shotguns Edit: it means it should always remain good but not op
@@raptonsoul2557 So if this thing fires .410 Boreshot, then what is even the point of the Riveter other than "full-auto but peppering damage"? Compared to this thing, I can throw the Riveter into lava right now.
@@iHubJ232K it’s a hybrid gun between shotguns and ARs that provides a lot more forgiveness and tend to have very good ads spread. Also it gets a notable buff if you equip incendiary arounds making even better rush gun.
I think one of the good ways to balance this out would be to either decrease the rate of fire so you aren't just kill chaining potentially. And/or making it so you can't get THAT tight of a hip fire spread and knocking back the sprint out speed a bit. I actually haven't played since the update after hearing about the spawns and connection issues, but just seeing it on paper, I feel like those would be even trade offs.
I love this these are so much fun! Finally a shotgun thats good and deadly within 5 m with not an insabely slow sprint to fire so you can run around super agressive! Lots of fun abd beats just having to aim walk aroubd corners to be effective like the other non spam shotties
I onced had an idea that maybe if they add a new weapon, they shoukd buff the other weapons in it's class. new smg? buff 'em all. new kit? well it's a shotgun, might as well bust up the other ones I dunno how practicle it is but i thought id share
I'm guessing you're just upset that you can't play ship and take the top spot right now with whatever cheap tactic you use. OR maybe you find it hard to aim and can't join in the chaos.
I got the original MW2 4 days early & I was running around with the akimbo rangers for days before the masses even unlocked them!! I was dominating every single match I played and it was hilarious hearing the lobbies moaning about them lol They nerfed them into oblivion though, rightly so, they were ridiculous. This reminds me of that first week or so back in the day 😌
So they're gonna nerf the range, damage, sprint-to-fire speed, sprint speed, and shot spread. Especially with Ace saying "all you have to do", "consistent" 29M ONE SHOT KILLS as if people don't move or use cover, as if you can aim down sight and get lock-on aim assist. Better use this thing before it's useless, it's probably the most fun this game will ever be.
@@Tigliz12 Exactly. They don't have the spread or damage of the old 1887s. People who think they're even comparable never played MW2. These are fun meme guns, but they're still mid at best. If you miss, it's game over.
I’d honestly like to see either the incidiary rounds or ball rounds buffed. Since we’re so limited in attachments it feels sad only using 2. On the other hand, if they open up some other options I’d be interested to see what they do (like Aftermarket part exclusive attachments)
As someone who loves using shotguns i say they are perfect! They shouldn't get a nerf that destroys them because its high risk weapon, you only get two shots. If your not accurate your dead. That's how the shotguns should be. I know its gonna get nerfed but i really hope they don't ruin this very fun alternative choice for a shotgun. If anything the MW2 Shotguns need a buff.
It's definitely overtuned but yeah they shouldn't be nerfed into the ground. Its just so much better than the other shotguns to where it's the uncontested clear choice
@@MrKing-he3eo tbh i kinda still feel like the Lockwood is still the king of shotguns, it doesn't have the range but its more consistent and reliable and the Wardens. I will agree that with the right set up it is powerful but not like extremely powerful like the Mors on launch. I just hope that when they adjust it, they don't break it into the ground like they did my other baby the Outlaw 227 kit for the Bas-B
@@angelicfighters-24 The lockwood 680 barely competes in my experience. Slower sprint out time and shorter one shot kill potential. You pretty much have to pre aim or catch the dual wield user off guard.
@@MrKing-he3eo the sprint to fire on the other shotguns really holds them back. They have the potential, but with how aggressive you have to play to get in range, you very regularly die while spamming the fire button and nothing happens, which is not a fun experience
@@asdfghjkl2261 I thought the slower sprint out times kept them in check somewhat. They can be faster but not too much faster. I'd say the lockwood 680 should still be the slowest given it can one shot
One optic is not useless… The AMP red dot with the integrated laser tightens your spread possibly even more than all the standard lasers, brings the minimum spread to 0.0, and tightens the max spread a lot. Visible when ADS which you can’t do with these 👍🏼👍🏼
I’m so glad these are insane for the moment. I wanted them to be. Balance is a good thing but as long as the Mors with the slug can still one shot anywhere above the knee and be insanely fast on top of that, balance is out the door. Let these be busted, the most fun I’ve had in this game
I think they are fine damage wise. Twice as good because you have two and you have to still hit your shot or you’re dead. Now range is a little ridiculous but it’s a classic and should be allowed to be broken for a little bit longer
I rarely like "you have to hit your shot or you're dead" balance because it very commonly puts the entire gunfight into one person's hands. If the one shot person DOES hit their shot, there's very little the other player can do about it. Sure, you may sometimes miss, but the other player still gets completely unfairly fucked if you hit, unless it's designed well enough that they can reasonably do something to prepare/counter it
@@frazfrazfrazfraz I get it and like I said it does need to catch a nerf but it’s not that different from a quick scope just a lot shorter range but equally frustrating same as the knife
@@derekhouston8531 yeah quickscoping can be a problem balance wise, it was pretty broken in cold war if you knew the tricks Luckily modern warfare iii has an actually functioning flinch system (as far as I know, haven't played in a while) so I feel there's at least some potential counter play for them, even if it's mostly at range where snipers are supposed to be strong What's worrying about this is the instant sprint to fire and accurate instant kill shots even when moving around. It's hard to see how much counter play could exist for this on smaller maps, even if the range is reduced to 20
@@frazfrazfrazfraz bro your not even playing anymore? lol come on man. Flinch is good on some snipers and almost none existent on others with the right set up. But the real problem is all the cheaters with not aim bot but damn near extra aim assist and zero recoil Cronus zens and macros or just walls. Happens more than enough just the people using them are trash so they get away with it more and so hard to detect but easy to see in kill cam.
@@derekhouston8531 I'm trying to get back into it but my PS5 is having issues and I need to get it repaired And yeah they always end up putting in a bunch of flinch resistance stuff too, kinda takes away from that balance honestly
I’ve tried the slugs point blank basically I just shot the guns individually and got a kill even In long to mod range but it’s actually fun with slugs its so goofy
As a casual gamer, a couple of hrs a week on the weekends, I never get anything unlocked before they get nerfed. I would have liked to try these in the current state.
I'm not sure exactly which one, but I'm sure there's at least one optic attachment that helps with sprint to fire time, couldn't tell you which one and also couldn't tell you if it was available for this weapon or not, but might be worth having a browse through the optics to see if any actually do help.
Honestly I'm very curious to see where they go with balancing this and the Bal. The Revenger kit is still pretty good and hasn't seen much in the way of MAJOR nerfs or buffs. But considering this is a shotgun I wonder if that will affect their view when adjusting it if they think it's deserving.
I actually like the Bryson Improved choke better. Maybe it's just a placebo but there's a little bit more forgiveness on the spread so I can be a bit less accurate I feel like, while not giving up TOO much accurace that I lose as much deep range potential
I kind of hope they don’t nerf these or atleast not much because these feel amazing and fun to use even if other people are using em too especially in WZ too
I’m just gonna abuse these guns like I did with the Pre-patch akimbo Models from MW2. These things are ridiculous especially now with how we’re able to add attachments. I just hope they keep them OP for like a week for Nostalgia sake.
"optics are useless" - but you can use that AMP sight that gives laser in ads. Forgot the name, but it gives good hipfire spread. Closes the laser section tho
MWIII is the best COD since MW2 and BLOPS2. I don't care if it's old maps, old metas, nostalgia bait, etc. It's so fun and so content packed, I'm very happy to relive my teenage glory days with COD.
Not even close. MWIII long ttk and sbmm/sliding/bunny hopping sweats really takes the fun out of this game. It's decent, but not the best cod since those 2 you mentioned
My problem isn't that the Warden's are OP, but rather that they're the ONLY good Shotguns in the game. All the MWII Shotguns, all the MW3 Shotguns, and somehow an Aftermarket Part for a MWII rifle is a more effective Shotgun, by FAR, than any Shotgun in the game. They really need to rebalance all the Shotguns from the ground up, they're the least good Weapon Category in MW3 for sure. I'd rather them be almost useless than be OP, but I still want SOME of them to be good.
I don't know how much you've bothered testing the MW2 shotguns because they're trash, but they fundamentally work differently then the MW3 shotguns and that's why these are so strong. The MW2 shotguns (notably the Bryson 800 and 890) are so trash, despite having more range and damage than the Lockwood 680 for example, and have a hard capped 1-shot range ties to their effective damage range. The Bryson 800 with its optimal setup (rifled barrel and bryson choke) has an effective range of 4.2m and a damage of 110 per pellet to the upper chest x8 pellets, which is an absurd amount of damage (though pellet count is capped, not sure the exact number per shotgun as they seem to vary from gun to gun). However, you take 1 step beyond that 4.2m and suddenly this thing no longer 1-shots. The interesting this is that its 2-hit range is actually phenomenal, being able to 2-shot from across the map when testing on shipment. The MW3 shotguns do not follow this same rule at all, however. My Lockwood 680 right now has an effective range of 2.9m, but is still a 1-shot well beyond that, up to around 2-3x that distance if I remember correctly. It is not at all hard capped like the MW2 shotguns and that's why the despite the lower damage and range, the Lockwood 680 feels significantly better than the MW2 shotguns, they don't follow the same rules. That being said, the 2-shot potential is nowhere near what the MW2 shotguns can do and this is why the Wardens feel so strong. They are on a MW2 weapon so they follow the MW2 shotgun rules of hard capped and terrible 1-shot range, but amazing 2-shot range. Since you fire 2 guns at once, you get that amazing kill range instantly. I pretty much exclusively use shotguns so I've done loads of testing on this and would love to see you go in depth with the MW2 vs MW3 shotguns in one of your videos. I could offer any assistance if you need it as well. If they actually updated the MW2 shotguns to follow the same rules, however, I think we would see a very nice balance of shotguns since the Bryson 800 would be stronger and have better range than the 680, but be significantly slower to compensate. I hope you found that helpful :P
another thing is that in zombies mode it’ll only reload 2 bullets at a time which is very annoying. You have to constantly press the reload button and go through the animation to get to full mags
Definitely better attachments for this gun. I use the stov laser box and the choke that tightens spread but increases range 2%. The spread is 1.4⁰ but it adds so much forgiveness if you are not pinpoint accurate. It is the most consistent and best feeling setup. Some other RU-vidrs like handler run it with these attachments
I actually don’t think these are that OP. The range could be reduced to maybe 20-25m and I think it would be balanced so you don’t get those jarring deaths from super far away. But it so hard to hit a hipfire shot at that range anyway that it rarely happens. Even a fire rate nerf might pair well to make it the definition of a high risk high reward weapon
They just need to decrease the minimum hipfire spread benefit gained by the crown breaker choke. Getting absolutely zero spread is what makes them broken, in combination with it's insanely fast sprint to fire. Yes these are OP. I'm saying this as a M&KB player. I do feel like match-ups are equal for both peripherals. But average players do not stand a chance against better players using this kit.
I have to disagree with the statement that "optics are entirely useless on this" because there are certain optics that improve the primarily important stats while having functionally no downsides. Specifically I'm talking about the "Cronen Intlas MSP-12", and the "Intlas CAS-14" which both have virtually the same or better stat improvements compared to the best lasers, while the only cons are that you cant use any other laser attachments (no biggie because the optics already have the same or better stat boosts anyway) and that the laser is visible in ADS (which is actually better in this case because you cant ADS anyway so its never visible and the most comparable stat boosting laser attachment is visible at the hip. Which makes the better option the optics in my opinion).
(EDIT) So the Verdant Hook Cylindrical Laser does offer the same Max and Min Hipfire Spread but improves the Sprint to Fire Speed as well, while the optics I referred to improve the useless stat (in this case its useless anyway) ADS speed. So the laser you recommend in the video is very slightly better in my opinion, but considering the Sprint to Fire Speed stat is already bonkers, the laser is technically better but only by a very small margin. That said I do still think that the statement "optics are entirely useless on this" is still not accurate. Great video as always Ace you rock and keep up the great work. Best wishes to you and your family.
Not all optics are useless the Cronen intlas helps with hipfire even if the laser isn't visible anymore but i do run into people using sniper scopes for some odd reason.
Pretty spot on thoughts. SnD has been tough these last couple of days and it's impossible to consistently win gunfights without running the wardens yourself. Hope to see a nerf but keeping them somewhat viable
You can kit these shotguns to have literally zero pellet spread with just the crown breaker choke and a laser. This, plus 35 second sprint out, plus no need to ADS, plus being able to instantly kill within any range it can get a hit, makes this yet another "Here is a weapon you will die from before you can react if the enemy looks at you good enough" gun. Between the longbow, its aftermarket part, the Outlaw BAS-B, the MORS, and now this... the trend of adding these to a slow TTK game is getting really annoying.
The problem I see is not the faster TTK (and I even like the "faster" TTK, which in fact was the "normal" COD TTK and not this slow aberration that got since BO4, obviously TTK's like in ghosts and MW3 were too fast), for me the problem is that they do it with few weapons, instead of leaving the other weapons at a similar level (making you have to play with them, otherwise you are at a complete disadvantage). Another good reason to have a faster TTK is that slow TTK favors one-shot kill weapons
I wouldn't say they need to be nerfed as much as just re-balanced. Increasing the damage at short range while simultaneously increasing the spread so effectiveness at medium range is reduced a little. The fact that different ammo types are offered but also effectively are useless gimmicks is a real problem. Alternate ammunition types should be set up to address weaknesses in the standard ammo type, while having draw backs over there own. Slugs should have consistent damage across the body with diminishing damage values at longer ranges. Incendiary Ammo, aka Dragon's Breath, should have equal damage per magnesium pellet at range to that of the Standard Buckshot, but with increased spread, increased flinch, and a burning effect that bleeds HP, at 1 to 5 points per second, for a brief period of 1 to 2 seconds. And, BOLO rounds should have half the damage of a slug, per pellet at the same diminishing ranges, with a spread that fits between Standard Buckshot and Slug. This way, there are consistent drawbacks for each of the ammo types, and that will force you to build your loadout with specific use cases in mind rather than just what is Meta. Honestly, the Devs and Game Design Teams should have applied this type of philosophy to all the alternative ammo types in general and not just make multiple ammo types as a gimmick. The fact that only 1 or 2 of the alternative ammunition types are actually useful in combat out of the dozen or so total available ammo types is basically just a waste of everyone's time and money.
Supressor helps with bullet drop and the other ammo type that's not incendiary won't have any drop at all but will still oneshot headshot infinitely far away
These are absolutely a love letter 💌 to OGs from 2009… except, I agree, they are way overtuned and even more powerful than the original ones. These have got a smaller crosshair and longer range of effectiveness, to the point it’s absolutely busted!
Those give you the exact same hip fire stats as the verdant hook while blocking the laser category so it would be statistically the same but with very slightly worse visibility
I'll have to disagree with the Ball ammo. Infinite 3 shot range and all you have for a trade off is a close 1 shot? I say that's worth it, but that's about it. the other ammo types do suck though lol I'm hyped they brought these in again. They're so much fun! But now I'm wanting the Rangers to return. Those were fun to use too lol
I hope they buff all of the other shotguns to have similar range. After all, the moors sniper rifle is very dominant and ruining lobbies I've been in. At least have some other weapon types to compete at 29m.
I don't think these are too good, I just think the rest of the shotguns (both MWII and MWIII) are kind of bad compared to other categories. Shotguns felt fine in MWII, but with the higher health in MWIII the shotguns just don't feel great and have sprint to fire times that feel pretty high for shotguns. The only one that's been decent so far was the JAK Maglift kit, which got nerfed.
The same as with all other "broken" weapons: my opponents will kill me with one shot from half a map distance. In my hand: hitmarker at one step range.
