And that's not all… we still have to account for massive increase in pension contributions, equating in the end to an even Lower pension i.e. Work Far longer hours for a Much lower salary for more years to end up with peanuts for a pension + more pressure/ sacrifices on family & personal life… that is if we're not dead from over work
well if you compare it with Australia, ok, but most of countries have much lower salaries than 35k. And I really mean, MUCH lower. I understand that compared to other proffesions in the UK doctors believe they should have more. I understand that. But the comparison with another country was quite not fair. I think if they want to compare they should compare within the same country with another proffesions.
your comparison with Queensland, Australia is excellent - but you fail to point out that the medical system in Australia is very different from the UK's NHS! Australia operates private and public health services in tandem... it discourages middle-class welfare and expects higher income earners to have private medical insurance (the tax system penalises higher income earners who don't have private health insurance and gives a rebate to everyone who does) If I understand what you are really trying to say correctly - it is a total disgrace that in the UK junior doctors are becoming so disillusioned and being treated so poorly that they are considering leaving and moving to places like Australia this point is AGREED... but don't confuse this with junior doctors wanting to support the socialist ideal of healthcare that is free for all at point of service.... most Australians (to use your example) would be horrified at the idea... You are probably correct that the current UK government would like to dismantle the NHS in favour of private health care - b.t.w. a private system would likely end in higher incomes for doctors (this is why doctors were the greatest opponents to the NHS and had to be 'bought-off' with 'cradle-to-grave income guarantees'... If junior doctors believed in a socialist ideal NHS, they would embrace the changes... I doubt that they do (and neither should they)... in my opinion you are RIGHT to complain about your position and to AGITATE for a better outcome, but you are WRONG to claim to support a socialist NHS and then use non-socialist healthcare systems as a fairer example (they are better, but you can't have it both ways forever)
+Kevin McLaughlin Thanks for watching :) The health service labour market is international. Any healthcare system, whether private or public, needs to attract and retain staff who have the option of working abroad. It is because I supporting the publicly funded NHS that I'm advocating for terms and conditions that don't encourage its staff to leave. You seem to believe that in order to believe in a free at the point of care NHS, junior doctors should have some sort of servitude complex to the NHS. They should be willing to be paid significantly below international market rates. If they aren't, this means they don't believe in the NHS properly. They should be happy for the government to underfund the service at their direct expense. They should be proud to keep the NHS running by relying on the doctors' servitude complex, their sense of goodwill and the sheer joy of being paid significantly below market rates to prop up the system. An individual doctor may decide he cares more about subsiding government spending than earning for his family. That's up to him. However, many will not and will move out of medicine or abroad. Then the NHS will crumble. It is precisely because I support the NHS that I am alerting the public to the alternative terms and conditions that an NHS doctor who cares about the health and wellbeing of his own family will invariably consider. Please also remember we aren't asking for a pay rise to match any particular international market rate. We're asking to cancel these pay cuts and extra weekend hours which would make the NHS doctor contract too uncompetitive internationally.
+lcyw20 As stated:It is a total disgrace that in the UK junior doctors are becoming so disillusioned and being treated so poorly that they are considering leaving and moving to places like Australia this point is AGREED...I believe that doctors are NOT paid anywhere near enough in the NHS; and, that the structure of the working hours and understaffing puts lives at risk. And I agree that there are serious burnout issues and unfair pressures on medical staff.I just think that "save the NHS" is the wrong argument if you want to win the war!
+innitman I believe that doctors are already underpaid and should not be subjected to a pay cut.I would prefer that you would be working less hours for more money.If did not already agree that this is a serious problem, you would not have convinced me - in fact quite the reverse.
+Kevin McLaughlin - a) There is already a recruitment and retention issue with NHS doctors. b) If the doctors' conditions worsen further, the recruitment and retention issues would worsen. c) If the recruitment and retention falls below a certain value, the NHS would fail. Arguing for better conditions for NHS doctors is therefore consistent with wanting to save the NHS.
I am not sure what Kevin McLaughlin means when he ends his interesting comparisons of healthcare in Britain and Australia by noting “they are better”*. I believe the NHS should be socialist and its staff should be paid the rate for the job. Evidence suggests that this is fairer and more efficient for healthcare than allowing incomes to rise to what the market will bear. Recently this was nicely illustrated in an essay by Gavin Francis on how private healthcare works alongside the NHS in Britain, Profit, not patients: the risks of private medicine: www.theguardian.com/books/2015/oct/02/profit-not-patients-risks-private-medicine I first learned how private healthcare can exploit patients and government from a shrewd critique of healthcare in the US by Atul Gawande, The Cost Conundrum: What a Texas town can teach us about health care, The New Yorker: Annals of Medicine, June 1, 2009: www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/06/01/090601fa_fact_gawande#ixzz1L3CmUnRq By the way, McLaughlin says Bevan's claim to have “stuffed their mouths with gold” refers to allowing consultants to “intersplice private with NHS work”. And in Home And Away, doctors and treatments are readily available and private healthcare absent in Australia! * A sound judgement about healthcare should consider pay and working conditions for staff, speed and quality of treatments for patients, and revenue and capital costs to society. This is hard to do when debate focuses narrowly often on personal suffering and ignores the need to limit care and treatment as they must be when funded by private insurance or by the state.
+George Talbot You are clearly expert. The only opinion that I can give is that of the consumer (patient) which ultimately is the one that matters and in my experience Australia's health care gives the user a much better service.In my opinion this is precisely because it does not indulge middleclass welfare.
Your statement beginning "By the way, McLaughlin says...." I hope that is not me you are misquoting!Glad to see you are a follower of a good Aussie soap though ;)
+Kevin McLaughlin Opinion noted with thanks! I fear I have accidently misquoted you. I meant to say Gavin Francis says Bevan's claim to have stuffed their mouths with gold refers to allowing NHS consultants to do private work; in the Guardian article I cited. Sorry!
if doctors want to practice medicine abroad for whatever reason pack theirs bags slap on the bag and a hearty goodbye 😊 but with the currents reasons with regard to the new contract why not just work in the private health sector in the UK instead of going to the other side of the planet mmmmmmm
+trust in god because australia is one of the main countries uk nhs doctors would emigrate to. please note the accompanying text about 'working abroad'
