The Next Mage Knight | Voidfall First Impressions 

Well said!

I'd love to hear a handful of examples of heavy games that are complexity for complexity's sake, because I'm not playing them I guess. I also think there can be some joy in breadth as well as depth. Not all breadth is shallow. I often enjoy games with a ton to explore that isn't necessarily adding an incredible amount of strategic depth, but is just giving me new experiences to enjoy. I consider Sleeping Gods to be a game of tremendous breadth but not much strategic depth and I still love it. Not everything has to be brain burning. But, yes, a complex super shallow game would be bad. Thanks for watching!

Or how about specific examples of how this applies to Voidfall?

@@TotallyTabled Too Many Bones: Undertow is a prime example for me. There's a dizzying amount of rules exceptions and niche interactions that force me to spend more than half of my playtime in the rulebook to check if I'm even playing right. It's particularly grating when I spend five minutes setting up a complicated scenario with specific rules and interactions, only to be killed in the first round by some unlucky dice rolls. It's one of the few games I own where "the juice isn't worth the squeeze" really comes to mind. Quick edit: I agree with what you're saying! I love Sleeping Gods for the same reason. There's a lot to interact with, but it's all fairly easy to grasp and fun to explore.

Yeah, it is great news. I sometimes fear companies will just move on after the initial push, but sounds like they plan to go really invest in this one. Nice to see. Thanks for checking out the video!

Thanks for the thoughtful comments! Gaia Project is definitely on the to-do list. I have played it, mostly with 2 and 3 players and a couple times solo, but it has been a while. I have played more Terra Mystica and I like Gaia Project more. With both games I get this feeling, and I'm not sure why, that I'm in a creative straightjacket and if I was better at the game I would know what move I'm supposed to do. I feel like I have the illusion of choice when really only 2 choices make sense given the setup and my faction. Maybe that feeling is mistaken and there is a lot of paths to victory, but I can't help but feel railroaded. Voidfall on the other hand gives me so much creative freedom and so many ways I could deal with any one problem or achieve any goal. I feel you could set up everything exactly the same and nobody would play out their cycle in the same way. I love that feeling. Again, maybe it is an illusion to a certain degree, but it tricks me into believing. As for Voidfall's messiness, what you say has merit for sure. I think in person on the table I don't find it as graphically confusing as you. It is a language of icons but you pick it up fast. The icon sheet makes it easy to reference and I found that I understood most cards right away. I think Voidfall is maximalism done right. The scroll wheels for your VP and resources work so well. You basically always have similar cards with similar actions, so they become second nature. I don't know. This sort of thing is always going to be somewhat subjective, but I find the game on the table to be relatively easy to read. Thanks so much for checking out the video!

A lot of points here, esp about GP.

@@TotallyTabled I think you're 100 percent correct about GP - there definitely are 1-2 optimal moves you can make each turn, even more so than that, if you're good (or insane) you can potentially calculate your every move before the game even starts, it's just that they're different 1-2 optimal moves every time because of how modular it is. I'm sure there is always a single optimal turn there somewhere, it's just for me, it's hard to figure it out as there are too much stuff to consider - your faction's abilities, starting locations, nearby planets, different bonus abilities on the scientific tracks, the tracks themselves, activated abilities, round boosters, resource management, round goals, game goals, expansion, building upgrades, satellites, federations, terraforming, Gaia projects, energy management - and it's all open information available to you from the start, and you have to sequence it all perfectly, it's almost inadequate. AP inducing madness. I realized that in solo gaming AP is actually one of my favorite things, and it delivers it in spades. In Mage Knight getting stuck in an AP induced coma/knockdown is pure bliss for me. Gaia is like a procedural puzzle that creates itself randomly every time, but always stays balanced somehow. What I love about it is despite it is a sprawling game, it's very tight design at the same time. Tight and very strict, yes. In Terra Mystica there are even optimal opening moves that every experienced player will make, akin to chess. Gaia inherited some of its strictness, yet it's more open than that. But it is definitely super dry, calculating and very, very German. After all, one of the devs even has not one, but two umlauts in his name. Helge Ostertag and Jens Drögemüller - just saying it out loud will make you feel like you own a bakery in 18-th century Bavaria. Sorry, I tend to be very nitpicky to graphical and overall design, to the point of being borderline pedantic and awfully stuffy, but it comes with the profession and actually helps to achieve good results in rendering and production. It is totally subjective still, especially when we're talking about a personal appeal of games. And I do realize it's not very wise of me to write Voidfall off just because of a single solo mode David designed some time ago. And I didn't love Mage Knight, Gaia and Robinson visually at first, but came to appreciate them for what they are, same goes for Uwe Rosenberg's games. I like how you described At the Gates of Loyang as a free jazz gameplay, it feels like there's a special place in your heart for games that let you be creative. I think I will give Voidfall a shot because in theory it's exactly the game I would love. What I love about your vibe is how inviting you make every game you show, to me or to pretty much anyone who stumbles on one of your videos. It's actually a very important work for the community and overall board game culture. Thanks again, Shaggy.

Shaggi, you can totally make a dedicated video on the subject of creative freedom because I think it’s an interesting topic. I was just talking to another content creator about how we both bounced off Skytear Horde because we felt the decision space was on rails. And that’s ultimately why I stopped playing Magic the Gathering, its antecedent.

My problem with "juice is not worth the squeeze" is it is a completely subjective dismissal leveled at all heavy games. If a reviewer finds Voidfall "not worth the squeeze" that tells me more about the reviewer themselves rather than the game. It is like the "feels like work" or "complexity for complexity's sake" phrases. I think all these phrases are fairly meaningless and just a way of saying "heavy games are bad." Why don't we talk about "simplicity for simplicity's sake" when it comes to the avalanche of one idea/one mechanism games that flood the market each year? I mean, for every heavy game that could maybe lose a mechanism or due with a bit of streamlining, there are so many games that could due with more. But we rarely hear that complaint. Why? What if we imagined that the only game we could play is that one game for a year. Suddenly, simple shallower games would have a negative connotation and the heavier, deeper games would have more value. So we value simplicity because we can always move on to the next game and complexity keeps us from moving on to the next game. I have a problem with this mentality. I also couldn't disagree more with the digital argument. I mean, digital is a great alternative in many situations where physical is impossible, but tactility is everything to me. Tactility is the beating heart of this hobby. If that doesn't matter, then every game would be better digitally. Some people might consider board gamers hipsters in this regard, but I think the distinction is real and meaningful. Thanks for watching!

Yeah, the planning is a few more steps ahead in Voidfall, but I'm still reacting to the chaos of the crisis deck. They are not the same game for sure. But it fills a similar bucket for me. The setup is about 30 min. for me, but I could see 20. I have it nicely organized in the box, so that is important. I just relax, but on a little show or some music, get a nice whiskey or tea, and set it up. I don't mind the time, really. Maybe it has something to do with being a parent and charishing every moment of peace that I can find. Thanks for watching!

Oh well I am a parent also but my setup have what I call extra hands of mess 😂 fortunately voidfall don’t have monster or dice so usually they don’t care. Anyway 2024 will certainly be a board game focus year for us (so much game found incoming), so I guess by playing more I will just find the setup easier over time.

I feel the same way as you do about Voidfall. It just works perfectly for me and what I'm looking for in a heavy solo game. I highly recommend Mage Knight and Frostpunk. I've made solo playthroughs of both, so watching those might help. You might also want to check out my playthroughs of Robinson Crusoe, This War of Mine, and Halls of Hegra. They aren't exactly like Voidfall, but they are heavier games I enjoy. Thanks so much for watching!

Already mentioned it, but from everything I've seen, Voidfall is similar to circadians and utilizes Analysis Paralysis. I've been seeing Voidfall has people wanting to spend time formulating and strategizing long-term before taking a turn. I am very curious to get Voidfall and see/feel that first hand. But that's what circadians First Light is to me and I love it. Immense choice and long term directions you could go, with some turn by turn tactics to deal with those wrenches that get thrown in your strategy. And maybe? That's why it seems to get a hard time. After all Circadians is practically non existent yet made by the popular shem Phillips And people tend to view analysis paralysis as a negative. Eh. Just a thought. But, yeah, that's what Voidfall looks like to me.

That's so awesome! The main goal of my channel is to make games less intimidating and help to get them tabled, so I can't describe how happy I am to hear you tackled Voidfall and enjoyed the experience. I think a common misconception about heavy games is they are difficult to play, when usually are just difficult to learn and/or difficult to play well. The best heavy games play fairly smooth once you've wrapped your head around them and got a few plays under your belt. Voidfall is a great example. I hope you continue to enjoy the game. Thanks for watching!

@@TotallyTabled Seeing as Through the Ages is one of your favourites, I wonder if you see the comparison here? I know they are totally different games but I got the same satisfying feeling of trying to wrestle a slippery empire under control. Or am I just mad!

There is a similarity in the civ building, plate spinning, resource managing aspect. Voidfall has a different feel overall as it is more goal oriented and requires more long term strategic planning. Through the Age has much shorter term planning, more reacting to the cards available and the actions of the other players. A lot more tactical and opportunistic play in Thru the Ages. They scratch a different itch for me ultimately.

Yeah, setup will always be there as a barrier to getting this one to the table. I find that a more minor annoyance than others, but I totally get it. I think I have Voidfall down to about 20 minutes, but that is a focused 20 minutes. It is almost a game itself. :) Thanks, Steve!

I disagree with this. Complexity tends to imply high levels of player interaction -- war games, 4X, 18xx, games like TI4, War of the Ring, Food Chain Magnate, the Pax series, Madeira, the Terra Mystica series, recently Hegemony is an example -- Vital Lacerda games have a lot of player interaction. Multiplayer solitaire games tend towards medium weight -- the Rosenbergs and Felds, for example. And complexity can breed AP and downtime, but not necessarily. AP is usually a function of lack of player experience and flawed priorities rather than a function of the game itself, other than heavier games require more experience to grok. Complex euros are sometimes better at smaller player counts, but to say they only work as solos is going too far. Yeah, I'd rather play Voidfall solo, but part of the reason is because there are so many heavy games that play great at 2-3 players. Thanks for watching.

Yes, it definitely would be. Thanks for checking out the video!

That's nice to hear. Thank you. I'm glad you're enjoying the channel. I'm a player of all types of games, so I'm a defender of all types. I've lately been a bit peeved by all the criticism of heavy games just for being heavy, as if these games shouldn't exist or shouldn't get attention. Next week I'm sure I'll be peeved by something completely different. :) I'm glad you got into Mage Knight. I'm also late to the party and still getting into it. Very happy I finally got it to the table. Thanks for watching!

I really encourage trying it on the free app. It might be something you really like, especially if you enjoy Mage Knight. And with digital you won't need to worry about setup! Thanks for watching!

I really appreciate those kind words. I have a gaming group where we usually play lighter games or medium weight because that is what they enjoy and they usually don't want to learn new things. So the heavy stuff is getting played solo more and more, and I'm really liking that. There are so many advantages to playing solo -- I think it is an essential part of the hobby. And people are starting to jump on board. They've been brainwashed into thinking board gaming is ONLY about social interaction. That is one aspect -- and a great one -- but far from the only one. Also, people tend to have trouble spending time with themselves, in their own minds. They always need distractions. That isn't healthy. Playing Voidfall solo was one of the best gaming experiences I had all last year. Eventually playing a board game solo will seem as normal as playing a video game solo. Change happens slowly sometimes. Thanks so much for watching!

I hope you enjoy living vicariously through my playthroughs until you have space in your life for heavier games. :) When my kids were babies, I barely had the energy to play games at all, let alone complex ones. Luckily the hobby is overflowing with wonderful experiences at all complexity levels, so there is always something fun we can turn to. Thanks so much for checking out the video!

I agree with you to a certain extent. I am finding I like my solos either epic or quick little things for like a late night snack. And my multiplayer tastes are moving to the middle, with games that have some thinkiness but not too much to trigger AP. One great thing about solo play is the ability to tackle heavy and long games without having to worry about downtime or time constraints, so long as you have a space to set things up and leave them. Thanks for watching and commenting!

Feels very different from Gaia Project to me. Voidfall is far less abstract and on rails. The decision space is so tight in Gaia. Voidfall gives you the universe to chart your own path. Not saying either is better or worse, just they result in very different feelings as I play. But others might disagree. Thanks for watching!

Yeah, it is easy to fall into the trap of judging a game for what you want it to be rather than what it is trying to do. I make that mistake as well. But when I see the most popular and successful board game reviewers seemingly doing this on purpose, I do get discouraged. But I'm optimistic and positive by nature -- which is considered suspect in this hobby, I know. Grumpy gamers make better reviewers I guess, but they have way less fun. :) Thanks for watching!

That is so wonderful to hear. I'm glad I helped in some small way. This hobby often requires a journey of discovery -- as we play more games, we slowly find out what we actually like. That journey can sometimes take us to unexpected places if we are open to trying new things and going outside our comfort zone. I'm happy you were able to discover a part of the hobby that brings you joy! Thanks for checking out the video!

Hope you enjoy it when you play. Definitely try the app. That's a great way to get a taste for it. Thanks for watching!

@@TotallyTabled Good shout! I'll be sure to do that. Of course - keep up the great videos

I'm glad you were able to find a copy! And I'm glad I was partly responsible for helping you find the game. I'll take the credit, anyway. 😎 Thanks for watching!

It's a good one!

I hear what you are saying, but that is what I love about the design. Maybe a change in mindset would help? The blank page or blank canvas is intimidating until you realize there is no wrong move. Use your house's strengths as a guide, coupled with the heroic focuses, and the crisis cards and do what seems fun. Set a short term goal. Pick out a tech that looks cool. You don't need to analyze all possibilities. You can chart your own path. Thanks for watching!

@@TotallyTabled I understand your view but is there really no wrong move? I actually there is an optimal way to play every scenario. When you lose a game the open information nature allows you to look back at every decision and understand where you made the wrong move even with crisis cards. I respect people's opinion and see why it is loved but to me this is a sandbox I struggle to embrace.

@@elqord.1118 There's no wrong first move, but obviously you have to formulate and execute a solid plan. And the game gives you a lot of direction. At the start, look at your starting agenda and the Galactic Event scoring. Maximize those. In the playthrough I got points for pure regions and there was a lot of aggressive tech so I went military heavy and planned to seal the rift. Look at the agenda display. Pick one of those to get and maximize that scoring condition. What focuses and in what order do you need to play to grab that second agenda and get it played in the first cycle? That alone forms a solid foundation for a strategy. Read the advice on the back of your chosen house. That can also help guide you. This game isn't as sandboxy as you think. But it also doesn't force you to do just one thing. There are lots of paths to victory, lots of workable solutions based on the scoring cards you take. But the game might not be for you, that is okay as well. Thanks!

@@TotallyTabled thanks for this thorough response. I have definitely not given up on the game. The solo web app (on BGG) has been a godsend and allowed me to play solo sessions at least once a day!