On a more academic note, I think it was Dumazil who talks about the Asir Vanir was as a indo-european through line of the first two functions asserting over the third (or something to that effect, it's been a long time since I read it). Or just something on the war in general. Please excuse the spelling, dyslexia, and auto correct falls short on these topics
Sorry not really related to your question but do you know where would be a good starting place to find a collection of these various myths- not really for study but I'd like to read them to my kids one day so more of a storybook style
Oh but also a question related to your original question: are there any stories we can trace back to a time where there were multiple 'species' of hominid? And are other species of hominid likely present as motifs in any of our ancient stories?
Vidar and his possible relationship to Vishnu- a silent god who is spoken little of in the Edda but plays a major part in the world returning and Ragnarok! Tapadh Leat! Your channel and work has been nothing short of awesome!
I’d love to know the story and lore behind the beautiful tattoo art on your chest if you would care to share (if not too forward of me and/or too personal for you)
I am Native Canadian and as part of Cayuga mythology there is the story of the Sky woman who fell to earth. As the story goes, other people believe other things but this is what we believe. Early on the world was all water and there were the sky people who lived in the clouds. One day a sky woman was looking down through a hole and accidentally fell to the waters below. all the animals gather together to try and help her but they soon realized that she needed land for her to survive. All the animals tried to dive down and bring up some earth so she could have some land upon which to live. One by one they all tried and failed until finally the muskrat was able to dive deep enough to find earth and bring it back up. Eventually the land grew and became solid. The sky woman was then able to populate the land.
Similar to the legend I grow up with, that being a large tuna brought mud up from the waters below and placed it on the back of a turtle. Thus land was formed. Well after the bever used their tale to pack the mud.
I'm simply fascinated by the fact that we can reconstruct pieces of the culture of our ancestors from tens of thousands of years ago. This is yet another example of doing away with the prejudice about early humans being grunting and primitive imbeciles. We have to realize: they were probably very much like us today - just starting civilization from scratch. They have been asking the same questions we are looking into today. Who are we? Where did we come from? Where did the world/universe come from?
That, right there, is why I’m so obsessed with this field of research. I enjoy learning about the ancestors that we’ve forgotten. I absolutely hate the common conception of our ancestors as idiots who didn’t understand technology. I’d actually argue that they were a lot more remarkable than many of us today in the sense that, as you said, they quite literally tamed the natural world and started civilization without knowing anything that we do today. I’d love to speak to some of these people. I’m sure they were absolutely awesome people, those early human scientists and engineers.
@@vampiricagorist6979 You shouldn't be so optimistic about them too. Don't overestimate. The key observation is - they were exactly the same 10k BC as humans now days.
@@derekfume8810 I don’t doubt that. I’m just trying to emphasize how remarkable these people were to figure out things like agriculture with no prior help. That isn’t to discount the many innovations made my our more recent ancestors, but there’s a level of respect that I think we ought to apply to the most ancient of our ancestors, even if we may never know their names.
@@derekfume8810 I don't know, the WW2 generation were loads more capable people on average than people today. Even today's farmers don't hold a candle to the abilities of that generation so can well image the generations from tens of thousands prior were very different than moderns - just as a generation barely removed from the current crop of moderns were a far more resilient and capable people
@@TheSulross People today are being just as capable / resourceful / ingenious today as they ever have been. Whatever the environmental, social, survival challenges encountered, the generation(s) experiencing them respond to them by discovering, inventing, making, applying new techniques in order to create the necessary tools and technology required to mitigate or better still eliminate said challenges. That's the point - it's inherent in our species' evolution and we are the exact same species today as we were during WW2 or indeed 125K years ago for that matter. Only the environment, its resources and the nature of the challenge change. Today's farmers simply work in a different way from those that have come before - likely a more efficient and effective way I would guess. And why is this? Because of the continued application of the very same human capability and resourcefulness that contributed so effectively as part of the war effort.
If you stay until the end of the video... who stops watching these before they end? They are fascinating from beginning to end and absolute gems. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and insights Jon.
I dunno the whole "male pregnancy envy" thing from the notoriously debunked Sigmund Freud kinda turned me off. Freud was enamoured with his own theories and applied them to everything, it's as absurd as taking the Oedipus complex seriously as a psychological phenomenon and then inferring that the Hindu texts must've been written by a bunch of men who wanted to sleep with their dominant mothers. Honestly I think the assumption that because the stories sometimes featured men was some form of ancient sexism is quite dubious, it seems much more like a modern feminist interpretation of ancient writings, and seems to ignore of the symbolic idea of the father and the masculine principle (or yang) as being an energy or force that is ascribed male attributes, and does not actually refer to biological manhood in any way.
In Central California your "Earth Diver" pattern is recounted by several societies. In that version, three creatures are floating on a raft in the middle of a huge flood. One is Coyote, the next is Mud Turtle, I don't recall the third but I think it was a bird. A shining being comes down to the raft from the sky on a feather(?) rope. After a discussion with the raft's occupants it transpires that all three are heartily sick of the narrow confines of the raft. The shining being then suggests that one of them dive down and bring up some material from the surface beneath the flood. Coyote can't dive well, the bird can't at all, so mud turtle dives down and it is a long difficult dive. By the time he reaches the raft again, he has lost the entire load he started to the surface with. But the shining one takes out a small stone knife and scrapes beneath the mud turtle's nails and collect enough mud to make a small ball of mud. This is cast by the shining one out into the water creating the first dryland. A primal oak tree myth also circulated.
@@hermanhale9258 Not a girl, a "shining one," though the transcription by Kroeber(?) uses the pronoun "he" IIRC. Gender is an odd topic in folk lore. I've always thought it curious that the genders of the sun and moon swap north and south of the Alps in Europe.
Whenever I watch videos like this I start to feel emotional in a very profound and almost indescribable way. Like I just feel a deep sense of connection to all of humanity, and an appreciation for our shared roots, and for the ancestors we all descend from, who made myth, and art, and whose lineage survived so we could be here today. A deep sense of oneness really, for all of humanity across all of space and time. Just beautiful.
Ever tried regression therapy? I'm skeptical of anything I can't quantify or touch but have had some interesting experiences with regression therapy sessions.
In the Romanian creation myth, we have an Earth Diver(called not-kinsnman or the Devil) who brings out mud from the depth of the primordial sea at the behest of another being(called the kinsman or God) when said being appears out of nothing. I knew it was very old and shared by many peoples, but it's really great to hear more about it! Unfortunately we were christianized very early on so all of our mythology is coated in thick a layer of Christianity, but I always found it curious how this very obviously pagan story survived even tho it has some Christian influence because of the interpretation of the two beings as God and the Devil.
Heh. I mentioned a few variations of the Romanian Creation myth in the comment section of his Indo-European Creation Myth video a while back, and he replied to the comment saying he hadn't heard of that creation myth before. I'm sure we'll hear more of it in future videos in this series.
When you write that the Earth Diver is a 'not-kinsman', is it a member of another tribe, or perhaps even with a different language? And then maybe the 'kinsman' would have been an important tribal leader. It might be difficult to confirm or deny these guesses, because of the changes over time, and the inevitable influence of Christianity, as you wrote. I agree, it's a wonder that this story has survived!
@@afischer8327 He's translating it awkwardly, the actual translation is "Not-Brother", because the other character (who is supposedly God), replies with "You are not my brother, you are my Not-Brother." when the Earth Diver (who is supposed to be Satan) excitedly calls the other character "Brother" upon first meeting him. These myths are known in Romania as "Brother and Not-Brother" stories, where Brother is God and Not-Brother is Satan.
There is an interesting creation myth from the many and varied beliefs of the ancient Egyptians. The lotus plant grows from a seed at the bottom of the water, shooting up until it hits the surface, then growing leaves which fan out and rest over the water. Some imaginative scribe saw this as a way that land could be formed from the water, a cosmic lotus seed that anchored the floating land spread out above.
Well their is the creation myth where Atum ejaculates, and the Ennead are created; Ptah Tatenen was the patron god of Memphis who created the Ennead from the waters of Chaos; Ra in one myth is the creator of the world. There is no unitary Egyptian creation myth, ever nome likely had their own variation of the creation story.
My daughter is Maori, we're a Kiwi family. I didn't even know much about the New Zealander creation story, so thank you for mentioning it! I always love it when our little country gets included :)
I think the earth diver myth may be counted as the single most primitive form of the ‘journey to the underworld’ archetype. Someone goes into a subnautical realm, questing, and retrieves his prize or treasure, and brings it back to the Normal world. From which his treasure brings a revolution or regeneration in some way. It’s the heroes journey at its very simplest .
That is a speculation... nicely presented. Hindu cosmology tells the story of a gigantic 🐗 boar who dives down into the galactic ocean, to recover earth holding her on his tusks. He than puts her back in the orbit and finished off the demon, who was causing the dilemma.
The Noah story is a good example of later writers not understanding what went on in the earlier story. Ravens were often taken on sea journeys in order to find land. If they let the raven out of the cage the raven flew up and if it didn't see any land , and being smarter than most other birds, would return to the boat. But if it saw land it would fly that direction. The sailors could then see which direction the raven flew, therefore knowing where there was land. Noah released the raven but it only flew back and forth. People assume it was that the raven was bad and the dove found land and so doves are good. Assuming the raven failed and the dove succeeded. But the phrase is odd. The raven flew back and forth until the water receeded from the land. Like it's an incomplete story which has had a lot of info deleted. Later commentators just made up the additional parts of the story making it into black is bad, white is good type.
There are actually two versions of the Noah Bird Scout Myths... One painted ravens as villains for flying around for three days without proof of land... The Other the two pairs of Raven did not return; but since doves often return to home nest areas to make new nest stole from raven's nesting area.... Thus Noah followed where the doves were going to collecting twigs for nest.
The raven didn't return because ravens are carrion eaters and it was feasting after months of being fed it's non-preferred diet on the Ark. Genesis was written by Moses, Moses was educated among Egyptian royalty, they knew far more about seafaring without modern technology than we do, after all both the Egyptians (and Israelites) traded all over the Red Sea, Arabian sea and Mediterranean region via ship, so its highly unlikely they would be unaware of how either ravens or doves behave when released from a vessel at sea as they were very close to the invention of such techniques and employed them routinely, which is why Noah released the raven in the first place, because of his knowledge of raven behavior. He subsequently released the dove knowing that it would have to return if it didn't find vegetation on dry land, because he was knowledgeable about dove dietary requirements as opposed to raven dietary requirements. Additionally, the white dove is not found in nature, it's an invention of ca. 1000 AD artificial selective breeding techniques from Greece. Noah's pigeons (doves) would not have been white and no one in Noah's day, 4500 BC, would have ever seen a white dove, as even today they are vanishingly rare in nature. Therefore, this superficial, fictional conctruct has zero explanatory power within the actual historic context to which it's being shoehorned, as a little knowledge clearly indicates. The black =evil , white= good analogy is an entirely fictitious construct that cannot be derived from the biblical text, only imposed upon it, that's why this is the first time I've ever heard of it, because it's logically, culturally, historically and biologically absurd.
The Finnic creation myth is a combination of the Earth Diver Myth (EDM) and the World Egg Myth (WEM), with the World Tree also present. The EDM survived in a more complete form among eastern Finnish tribes, as well as among Karelians, not to mention some of our eastern relatives further away; people like the Komi, Nenets, Khanty etc. While the Kalevala is a historic book from the mid 19th century, the sacred runic poems it contains belong to a huge corpus of Finnic mythology, collected over the past four or five centuries. The original poems are sung in an octosyllabic meter.
I absolutely love this research and commend you for your rigorous work. As an anthropologist, I often wish I could peer into the minds of our ancestors. I believe I catch little glimpses within your stories created from your hard work. Thanks for sharing this.
He references volume 34 of Journal of Indo-European studies p 153-181, 2006. When he brings up a 'celtic world tree'. I've read the document years before watching this video but went back and re-read it as I didn't remember any mention of a world tree in it. And yes, there is no mention of a world tree in it, the document is about Indo-European dragon slayers. So he got that wrong. To my knowledge there is only one instance in Irish mythology that might be considered even a hint at a 'world tree', but he made no reference to that text. So look, it's all very nice and scholarly looking to put up references, but if they don't reference what you're talking about then you need to take anything they say with a pinch of salt.
Its really interesting. In Hindu stories we believe the goddess (Mata) who was a Shaktiswarupini (who is the form of energy) existed in dormant state and was surrounded by Om (believed as the first sound of universe) and when Om requested Mata to wake up, seeing the vast nothingness around her she created 3 entities Brahma, Vishnu, Maheshwara who had to attain knowledge and once they were ready each was given a task to perform. Brahma was to create life, Vishnu was to help it sustain and thrive, Maheswara was to end it to continue the cycle. Brahma's creations were the Rishi's one of whom along with his wives gave rise to Suras, Asuras, Pakhu, Naga, Manushyas. Suras and Asuras had conflict of interest and later came to be known as Devas and Danavas respectively whom most people translate to Gods and Demons. According to Hindu Myths there is a difference between Good and Evil however all Suras(Gods) aren't Good and all Asuras(Demons) aren't bad. Either way, only after Suras were created is when humans came about. We have many instances when creation might cease to exist in our mythology however one of the three main entities Vishnu helps in sustaining us. One of such times is when Vishnu takes the form of a tortoise to save Earth and another time he takes the form of a wild bore to save Bhudevi (probably land but usually depicts the entire earth).
As you were describing more and more on the earth diver motif, there was a thought I couldn’t shake. That everything that is, came from the deep. That land, life, everything was tilled from it like a farmer tills the land. Everything was tilled from nothing. It made me think of why people would see it like this in early times. As they were surrounded by life, they saw that plants and “trees” came from the ground and as such people and other life did too. Then where did the land come from? From the deep. And where did the deep come from? From nothing. Or the void. Thus begs the question is who or what started tilling. What set it in motion? Gods, super beings, big bang, etc.
This was an incredible episode, I love it when variations of the same creation myths are retold by different cultures half a world away from each other. That's what's amazing and that's why this episode was super interesting. Surely these ancient myths have been being told ever since humans started to try and make sense of the world and learned to communicate with each other. Definitely one of your best Jon. I love having little eureka moments when you connect the dots.
I keep getting more and more Survive the Jive vibes from this channel. I’d love to see a strong anti-folkish statement from you. I genuinely want to study PIE and IE languages and I’d like to feel confident promoting your content in Discords discussing such topics. Everyone is cropping up white supremacist in these circles.
Peering in to the minds of our ancient ancestors like this is absolutely amazing experience. Ancient people believing them or not, these are some the first stories of fiction ever conceived, the echoes of which have stayed with us through millennia of technological progress and societal growth. Fiction may be an inferior genre for some, but these are the first stories, the first beautiful flashes of brilliance from human creativity.
It's also interesting because these mythologies bear eerie similarities to the scientific discoveries we have since found. Humans evolved from a lineage that once lived in the oceans, as did all life. The void darkness, then light also suggests a similar situation to the big bang. It's fascinating.
My first year in college, I took a course called: "Creative Writing: Mythology." For the final project, we each had to develop our own creation myth. Wow, I wish mine had been as well formed as the one you just told! I'm thrilled to have found this channel.
I also wonder how much influence other humans as Neanderthals had on our myths? How interesting that would be! Perhaps there are several original stories after all, coming from different human species... 🌻
Highly Compelling Evidence had a video where he looked at the possibility that certain ancient stories came to mankind by way of the Denisovans. Through Siberia. I forget which video.
@@red2blackprofits TBH that actually makes sense as an origin for some of the weird "geometric" stories of constellations and such. Maybe all ancient stories are people remember things that autists said.
Earth-diver myths and the existence of only a primordial sea before the world is a basis of a lot of indigenous creation stories as well. Love your content!
I adore these videos. Many of the stories are familiar, or elements of them can be recognised from how they've been passed down and evolved over time. But as much as hearing something close to the original versions is profound, the story of how we come to develop, interpret and understand these tales is even more interesting.
Imagine how much of our folklore and mythology were lost just because the men recording them only chose to preserve male-centric stories. It was always a mystery to me as a child why many stories referred to men as the source of life when childbirth has existed since the dawn of time but they couldn't reference that.
A mate put me on to your channel recently, excellent stuff, thank you. Nice to see propper academic coverage of these topics, something youtube sorely lacks.
Maui's hook likely connects to scorpios, the time to travel to NZ from the cook islands is when this is smeared with blood, ie at dawn or dusk, which as the hook is descending is dawn mid winter. This happens to be the best time to travel by the sailors almanac due to wind, following where the hook descends gives you a direct bearing to the coast of the fish known as the hook of Maui. There's also a reference to the star associated with Maui hiding below the canoe (there are 2 such, both associated with solstice.) The hook also slows the sun rising above it at dawn mid summer, while it's counter part pelaides rises mid winter. A possible reason for north south split in stories incidentally.
thank you for explaining some of the methodologies that are used to reconstruct the history of these stories! i’ve often wondered how scientific these reconstructions actually are. it seems totally reasonable that we can use what we know about population movements to trace the points where stories might have diverged. it’s so fascinating how many of these elements are spread so far across the world, and that if we could actually hear the creation stories of our earliest ancestors that they might actually sound pretty familiar.
it may not only be pragnancy envy, but excrement also does look like mud & undigested seeds do grow into sprigs out of it. if not for seed dispersal, just the fact that fungi & plants grow in areas with manure can be seen as the relining of creation
You don't need to go far down into a desert to observe plants and life clinging to valuable excrements. Merely going up in elevation to Alpine tundra or alpine areas is enough. And: Once you get into farming, before nitrogen fertilizer your only real option is refining manure. We now live in a society where we don't understand what nutrition is, and as such we have no idea on the value of fecal matter. Land being black dirt would be a sign of fertile soil, which is undersold when telling such a myth.
What I saw when we had a contract at Blackburn Meadows Water Treatment Plant would be a good example of what you mentioned. In all the sewerage sludge which gets everywhere were growing great forests of tomato plants, you'd have to see it to believe it.
Idea of the oldest myth being a glorified poop joke would be the most human thing ever actually, counting the fact we still find such stuff funny. I support that xd
I felt like this was a prime example of a primitive mind trying to comprehend that life and planets exist in a star cloud created by the back end of a wormhole.
in Mordovian mythology (part of Finno-Ugric mythology) there is a myth about a god, whose name is Mastor, who turns into a duck and raises the earth from under the water. Also, in this myth there is a Birch that separates the Skye's from earth and the underworld
The amount of research and groundwork to be able to collect all of these stories to later analyze and abstract is just mind boggling to me. This is just more evidence that we are all truly related. Thank you fro sharing!
One of my favorite creation myths is from a Native American tribe. I can't recall the tribe, but once the earth was created, stings of mud came down from heaven and all the people and animals shimmied down these mud strings. Then the world and earth were separated by cutting the mud strings.
After experiencing plant medicines firsthand, I completely understand how these ideas came to be. There really is a spirit realm of reality that truly does exist. Peace and love to everyone.
The idea that many of the oldest motifs emerged somewhere before or around 75k years ago may suggest that the Toba Super Eruption played some role in the formation of creation myths. This super eruption was likely caused by a rogue planet disturbing comets which then disturbed the earth, according to astrophysicists. The excrement part may be linked to more than psychological matters alone. It reminds me of Odin taking the Mead of Poetry in the form of a giant eagle. He is chased by a giant eagle which crashes into a bonfire. That sounds like a late echo of the earth diver myth, symbolizing a cosmic impact. Odin excretes the mead from its mouth, but also from its behind, again the excrement idea, which then creates bad poetry. I have reasons to believe these are "comet birds". One crashing into the earth and causing an inferno, the other excreting some kind of substance. Comets are known to excrete all sorts of chemicals, gases, dust, and even ethanol alcohol and other liquids, also known as blood rain, golden rain etc!
Thank you for this content. It’s interesting to hear about the Bible’s creation myth with the myths that came before as context for its origin. This kind of thinking has opened my mind to the importance of all myths and the purposes they serve.
Marvelous. I never could understand the "floating land" idea, because even little children would find that contrary to experience, but it shows up everywhere. You'd think that one kid, somewhere, would call that storyteller out.
@@chrissiek8706 I've lived on many islands, and they were all connected to the bottom of the ocean. I've lived on several coasts, and it's the same thing. I think you're thinking about a boat, or a raft.
@@chrissiek8706 I think they had feet, like me. I think they could tell if they were moving, drifting, bobbing, twirling, rising up and down, or headed towards somewhere else, farther away from where they used to be. Many islands are volcanoes. Is the volcano the entire beast? or just the head of the beast? or just the tip of its jaws?
I enjoy recreation videos of the oldest Mythology's but there are times that I get a little sad that alot of those myths are unfortunately lost to the sands of time but these kind of recreation videos are the closest thing we have and the best attempt to put the pieces together.
I am a Wabanaki Native (Penobscot,Passamaquoddy and Central Maine MicMac)as well as Irish,Scottish,Welch/English.I was brought up to love and embrace my Native heritage as well as my European ancestors contributes to the American culture.I have also learned the Creation stories from my Maliseet,Monhegan and Pequoit Native friends too. I love all Creation Stories;esp the ones where huge Ocean dwelling creatures... Whales,Sea Turtles,etc. carries soil on their backs and thus creates life sustaining "Earth"/World Tree,and all other forms of life(including the first humans). I also love Grandmother Spider and Glooskup/Glooskubi,Manabozo,Kokopelli and many other First Nations( From All the Americas and Canada with great respect) Legendary Folks. My Grandma used to tell me these stories and many others when I was a small child. I shared her stories with my youngest brother so they would remain alive through me. RIP and thanks for the memories Grammy. May all Folklore,Creation Stories, Legends Worldwide continue to exist and shine on for endless Millennia to Come. All of Them are Beautiful and Still Needed. Love to All from a friend in Maine,USA.
I heard this story: A waterfowl (I forget which) laid an egg, which broke. The white became seas, the yolk became land. That's how our world came to be.
I'm VERY interested in the male womb envy thing. It seems many myths are pretty intuitive almost magically so. It also explains a lot of what the cave paintings were about, making sure the animals returned for the hunt...and the colleges of artists who painted the masterpieces underground
In Vedic religion they literally have temples of Womb with sculptures of primordial foetus. As well as sculptures of delivering babies in standing position. The dualist concept of light changing darkness into day must have compete with another myth explaining baby being created in two variations from dual source, and maybe one perfect god of all sexes. This premyth somehow seems off without thunders lightning's and supernatural events hahaha Modern humans are much more into fairytales than our ancestors. Even Vikings were much more grounded than we try to think reading their myths (usually not getting how they simply understood them). Their metaphysics were materialistic. Bird moves, tree moves, water moves ergo all are equal, intelligent and human-like. Since our native myths say stork brings children or are found in cabbage I think that one of humans spawning from world tree is fully believable despite logical me looks for something deeper of reason... Haha
Interesting, considering Freud introduced the Female "Penis Envy Theory", and during the era of the Early - pre 1940's 20th Century, *"a time notable for 9bservaboe actions reflecting Lower Mind and Material Focused value of worthiness, all influence by and from Rome and the Roman Emperor Constatine established Ideology, heavy in Male Dominance, lack of value in the feminine, and Fear based Dogma. Present time offering a growing draw up and into Higher Mind, Spiritual Discoveries (Quantum Physics studies), and emerging greater Facts of History. Realized in the Nonphysical very much the greater part of the Physical experience. *Comprehending the Soul energy, and knowing the secure reality of our eternal self, our infused in a Human vessel, and the value of the "Universal Laws" particularly the "Universal Law of Attraction".* These value all giving a flow towards Centered in Harmony.
I always learn a lot form you. I am fascinated by the way that people tried to make sense of their world before they had any scientific understanding of the nature of the sun and moon and stars and weather.
you forgot the famous earth diver and and the 3rd avater of Vishnu, Vahara where he lifted earth from ocean, turtle one is reused in samudra manthan, another they called it Pangu myth or something :3 keep up the great work love your videos .
@@Crecganford so this means Chinese folklore might be part of indo-Europeans family as well, for some reason i though it was related to tengrism. damn i need to read vadas again lol
talking about breaking wind and divine wind being used for creation is super interesting. especially with the clay reference. cause did not god breathe life into adam? not dissimilar to the downward breathe in the vedic tradition you mentioned. this channel is great
Brilliant video mate I really like how you tide in multiple mythologies of multiple cultures and tie them together to tell an expected earlier mythology. Great job! By the way have you done a video about the Norse creation myth? That'd be great to see, or you've already made it.
I have touched on the Old Norse mythology in my Comparative Mythology video, as the Old Norse myth parallels the Indo European Creation Myth. I hope you watch that as it really is a fascinating insight on the modern day religions all coming from one source.
One of the most stable pieces of knowledge humanity has is that all energy cannot be created or destroyed. We come from somewhere and go somewhere else. The universe is forever, and forever changing.
I only found this channel in the last month or two and I’m so glad I did! Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us in such an entertaining and accessible way. Cheers 🍻
Another great video 👍 The twenty-something philosophy major in me would be in the back of the ancient bonfire storytelling sesh ruining the mood with “but how can something come from nothing?” 😂 But anyway, I wanted to say I’m grateful to see academics on RU-vid create scholarly content. It’s my favorite use of the platform. I enjoy creators like you and Justin Sledge over at Esoterica. It’s a way to keep some academic studies alive and circulating at a time when education costs are astronomical and kids just want degrees that make them a lot of money. Guys like you keep interest alive and information in circulation. I wonder how many comparative mythology and linguistics studies majors you’ve inspired? I hope to find more of you on RU-vid and Patreon. Keep up the good work!
It's interesting that the "earth diver" myth comes out of myths where people come from the "underground" out of water through a hole. All people come from water out of a hole, birth. A baby comes down, but if you are standing on the Earth people would come up. You also have the story of the stork (a wading/water bird) who brings babies to their mothers, presumably from the water (amniotic sack); which is dark and saline/salt water. It would make sense that the myth is one of or the oldest myth. The tree can also be a phallic symbol and the hole/underground a vaginal/womb symbol. Both lead to creation.
I've been working on a table top campaign that uses a lot of creation myth motifs. It begins with the characters being created by the players deep under an ocean before they are spit up on a beach to discover the mysteries of the Lands. I had no idea my beginning was literally a The beginning! That's so rad! Thank you for your videos!! They're so inspiring!
This is fascinating information and a very enlightening video. I've always been personally interested in what the core ideas and mythos of our earliest ancestors would have been and this is a spectacular introduction to that. I have also personally noticed these trends myself, for example with many Indigenous American stories (a personal point of interest for me) the motif of the Earth-diver is very prevalent and features in many of the legends. Great work on this video and I can't wait to see more!
Your reference to "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" is interesting , I have always found Douglas Adams books fascinating, with latent underlying spiritual / philosophical revelations , he came up with the idea that dealing with current events/ phenomenae one should seek a holistic ( historic, rational, mythical, scientific ...) causality explanation . also all our universe with all living beings might be merely a giant super-computer designed by Gods / Archons/...mice ! to find the " ultimate answer ".
I appreciate your fine work. I am also enjoying David Reich lately, I studied some linguistics in college, and spend a great deal of time on genealogy, in a micro and macro sense. I appreciate your ability to flesh-out and articulate the ramifications of our current understanding of history, genetics, and linguistics in tangible terms.
im a psych and anthro student. it’s just so cool to me how these 2 disciplines influence how i perceive your mythology videos. now i really wanna take classes on mythology if my university offers some 😯
There are PhD's in different aspects of Story Telling, which give a lot of flexibility. I hope you find a course that suits you, and it's ok to change your path as you travel :)
I love this series, can’t wait to see all the creation myths discussed. Love that you mentioned the Finnish Kalevala, hard to find information about it.
I think this story motif is beautiful. It really makes me wonder about the underlying psychology. Diving into chaos until you've reached its bottom, retrieving order out of it.
The resemblance between creation myths starting with a universe with no light and the big bang theory that says there was no light at the start of the universe always make me think what are the odds of someone making up a story with 0 scientific observational data but somehow guess the actual, or something close, way things happened.
Well when you're trying to explain the beginning of something , you have to start from the assumption that at one point it didnt exist to explain its beginning. So there's always at first nothing, or something close to an unformed mass.
Wow! Before i started watching,i was drawn knowing my people had a similar story, not knowing you were actually starting with the creation story of my people, the Maori of Aotearoa ki Moananui-a-Kiwa. KIA ORA EHOA, I knew you were cultured but that blew my mind 🙏
I had a vision on mushrooms that was similar. It was a hand of a Jotun, or Titan that sprung from the waters and pushed its finger across the beach sand. As the wet sand continued to become pushed along, the more form the being took as it eventually walked off. Time drew on in the trip, and the fully formed "human being" walked back to the beach where the finger of the Titan folded the "human" like clay back into the watery depths.
I find it truly fascinating that 'all' was water and land was then created. All people that ever lived, lived on land/earth. It seems they had an understanding of where life started and evolved and that life on land evolved from life in the seas.
I have thought about this too and it's uncanny sometimes just how close to reality the mythology can be. Also the 'something from nothing' and then the 'only darkness in the beginning' (before the first stars begin to form) is pretty much how science has it today
It occurred to me several times in this discussion that the myths reflect ancient peoples' growing understanding of plants; perhaps the earliest comprehension of how seeds grow into plants, and using that to provide a clue to our own creation. But then, I'm vegetarian so my thinking often revolves around such notions. Thanks.
I find it fascinating to learn from these creation stories and their far flung origins not only of location but also of time. The inescapable conclusion Iit leaves me with is that humankind history is much more ancient than we have been taught and conditioned to believe. It is absolutely fascinating to me
It is amusing that in our earliest story about creation, the world was born from nothing much like what modern science suggests about the beginning of the universe today (re: a universe from nothing by lawrence krauss). Great video again.
@@zipperpillow It's been asked: Why not just nothingness (instead of all this, the universe) it seems the simplest. Why is there something instead of nothing? Like a Zen riddle it makes you exhaust your mind.
Thank you for your kind words, and I have a number of videos like this on my channel, and will continue to make many more. Perhaps look for the Dragon Myth video next.
Your videos have a lot of style bro! The mix of accepted "Science", with very, Very, VERY good guessing, leads to these extremely logical conclusions, Finally!! Searching for answers using total Common Sense ...Brilliant! Why hasn't this been done before?? Amazing.
Just got through the ending. That was a wonderful exploration of creation myths. I feel incredulous yet enlightened, now knowing the idea that mankind have been (and always will be) creating and sharing gross-out stories for eachother since the dawn of time. Nothing has changed. [No spoilers for others in replies please]
it is very interesting to see that humans guessed earths history pretty accurately. earth had oceans and atmosphere to begin with, life formed in the ocean and then the lands formed. maybe they observed the land, animals, fossils and concluded that life began in the ocean.
I thought the universal knowledge was a spirit guided thing they still had input from some who knew the correct knowledge... Who gave them the correct knowledge 🥇 .... Well most only get to know about the Earth's energy the earth works in the numbers 3,6,9.... The bible mentions the 666 God as Lucifer an fallen angels were 33 Percent of the angels an their energy went to Lucifer or Satan.. To kill us an wrong is... They wanted to make an marry but also to aid Lucifer and fight us and be demons and disembodied spirits.... Against us .. superior to us to confuse us all and teach us wrong. God's way and powers are 777 and beyond he only gives those to people who live like him not earth god and repent.... So everyone not in him only can say they know earth God and power.
Aristoteles and Thomas Aquinas have argued that we can only theorise after creation happened for time began subsequent to creation but they also argued that there must have been a formless, timeless, motionless state prior to the creation ( referring to Chronos !? ) , therefore a " primum movens " i.e. a first ( unmoved) mover " must have been the cause of creation out of the state of absolute as it were NIrvana ( motionless, timeless, formless...).
Their thinking was too abstract. Augustine cursed us with nonmaterial soul and this virtual world fairytales are damaging our sane understanding of world, and probably will forever because we will shape material world this way.
@@szymonbaranowski8184 Mathematics/ Algebra as well as Quantum Physics are also too abstract , actually one could consider " Abstract Thinking " and the ability to draw abstract concepts through keen observation, experience, expriments , to be the higher echelon of human evolution , I believe the problem is not " abstract thinking " per se , but rather dogmatism in any fields whatsoever which can affect even modern atheist scientists as well, a permanent constructive scepticism is a healthy remedy against fanatic dogmatism , actually a division between matter vs soul could be misleading therefore the classic philosophers called it " substance = underlying thing "
This was wildly fascinating. Thank you for putting this together. I wonder if one might be able to acquire a transcription of the creation myth that you put together at the end? I quite liked it.
RU-vid suggested your videos to me and I am so happy it did. Great videos bud I'm watching all of them back to back tonight that's how I'm spending my day off thank you keep em coming
Very interesting video. So the Iroquois creation myth is an offshoot of a very old story, using muskrat as the earth diver? What do you think about the variations in myths being due to variations in geography? I know for me when I hear Japanese myths talk about stabilizing the earth, I think about the long history of seismic activity Japan has and how their myths must have tried to make sense of this. Enjoying the material--keep up the good work!
@@szymonbaranowski8184 I don't have my notes on hand. I know modern Japanese came from the mainland of Asia and there are still some descendants of original inhabitants on one of the islands.
Sometimes it feels like our ancestors knew more about the creation of the earth much longer before we did. (e.g. Middle Ages) I call it genetic memory, in the form of myths. (did they also believe the Earth was flat to then?) It's a fun trip, and I'm excited to where this will lead. :D I wish there was a myth that explains how water came to be. (since water was already there when the first humans existed. I don't think there are any?) The wind part was kinda funny, but made a lot of logical sense. I mean, it's so simple yet logic. Also seeing a cave man grabbing a piece of earth/dust/sand, and throwing it on a pool of water and watching how it floats going "oe oe oe... oe?"... The floating and growing land myth was born! Exgaterating, but you get my point I hope. ;) (also, probably shooing it's interested female partner away... lol) At least they got the nothingness part right. :) How smart is that? Again, must have been the simplest idea, but the concept of "nothing"... first signs of intelligence? Thanks for the upload! Always interesting to see a new video from you!
I love your perspective and appreciate your knowledge. I have loved mythology since I was a child, these were my storybooks and the skies were my guides. You are speaking my language. Thank you for your gift to me
Early people could observe that where there was animal dung, or compost/refuse/midden piles or a common latrine trench area that insects or fungi or other plants might seem to spontaneusly appear. Right? It's waste, but thete's all kinds of bacteria there and seeds that were passed or discarded. Stuffs gonna grow and insects are gonna be attracted to lay eggs.
Really got into this area of interest lately. A family member had an ancestry search done on our family surname, and in short it revealed that our name goes back to 7th century norse with the first recorded person using the surname around that time, but even more interesting was the deeper origin and translation of the name which simply put translated to Wodens Feld. So Woden is a very old variation of the name Odin, Wodens Feld translated to Dwellers of Odins Country. I also read that the day Wednesday was once called Wodensday or Odins Day! So since reading a bit into this I've found an urge to learn more about history, but specifically the mythology side of the tales and legends and their deeper meanings! I found this very interesting thank you! Earned my like and sub 🙂
I'm a pure minded mildly gnostic Christian type who hates fart jokes, but I kind of like the stories of a god who emerges from the waters and sneezes, poops, pees, cries, bleeds and digs gunk out of various bodily orifices to create the world. In fact, I consider God's Spit and Shite to be the probable origins of Set and other devil gods.
Hmm my people tell a story about the creation myth something like " in the beginning there was nothing and from nothing strange chaos and from chaos was born the Goddess. Because it was dark and cold she started to dance ( basically move around to warm up ) and her dance created the ribbons of wind and from the ribbon of wind was created the serpent ( snake ) who wrapped himself around the Goddess and thus was created the universe. Our people were also created from the universal egg that was created by the Goddess and the serpent. The Goddess had the snake wrap himself 7 times around the egg. To this day the traditional hat is shaped like half of the egg and when a new bride is brought to the family they put one hat above her had and one hat upside down under the seat which represents the cosmic egg. We are also told that our ancestors were on Earth before the Moon was part of Earth.
What about sound? In the Bible it's the word. Indian it's the chant of Ohm that awakens Brahma. The Aborigines of Australia, it's 3 songs of the sea, land and sky. The Zulu's have a song bringing the Earth into being. The Navajo's Talking God speaks the universe and then the world into being, with sacred phrases and so on and so forth. So where does this speaking and singing creation into being come from?
I find it interesting that prior to the birth of Aristotle, Socrates, Plato, and any of the great philosophers we heard and know today, our ancestors probably philosophized stuff way harder in their down time, because what else do you do once you've hunted and eaten? I imagine one early human just sitting on a field watching their surroundings for potential danger or something else and they just start to think of stuff you know. Obviously, any writing system at that time is non-existent so they either just kept it with them or went to share it with someone else in the tribe, but it's either one or both of them forgot about it or just laughed it off as something silly and just went on to do other stuff, but eventually, the questions started to get even more interesting and that's when another one of them eventually took it seriously.
There is talk and references in all old cultures of a time before the moon. It is said the world was covered in a constant mist, like a constant fog. Then Anki brought the moon and positioned it to give earth seasons to help his slaves (us) to become better farmers and producers to serve them (our masters or what we called our gods). When Anki brought the moon the world fell into chaos and all the water that was in the atmosphere was deposited to the ground where it created a global flood!! Out of the flood the world gained its seasons and those slaves who were left over were taught agriculture by their masters so we could better be of service!! The masters we served as slaves were to us.. giants!! The masters we served created us in their own image by mixing their own DNA with a species native to our world to create our species where we were grown in special pots so the masters had slaves to help them. Their planet was hit by an asteroid and it was destroyed and the broken parts of their planet formed the rings of Saturn. Those masters left on our world fled for their space station (our moon) where the few survivors formed a colony and now they mine it in hopes of being able to establish a new world and a new colony. I don't know if any of this is right.. but what I do know is we are far older than we think and also we are missing a massive chuck of our own history!!
