The ONLY 3 Times Darth Vader & Palpatine Fought - Star Wars Explained 

Eventually, Vader DID get the upper hand in ROTJ…caught Sidious by surprise.

Palatine could sense what Vader was thinking. Vader would really have to trick his own mind before he could strike at him. Vader could only throw Palpatine down the shaft when he was very distracted.

Palpatine was weary and low key feared Vader. With a few modifications, more specifically removing the limitations and vulnerability to force lightning that Palpatine had installed in the suit, and knowing the truth about padme and and knowing about Luke an Leia giving him hope, he could have easily bested Palpatine. Vader must have had a stronger connection with the dark side too, considering sidious was just and evil asshole and vade knew true pain and suffering.

Well there is also that one time when he threw the Emperor down to the reactor.

There's only a few instances where Vader would win. 1) Palpatine tells Vader he killed Padme directly, 2) Palpatine tells Vader he was manipulated from the start.

He could, but he would have to use the element of surprise against Sidious. Vader is slow, electronically vulnerable, but armored and proficient in Form V Shien/Djem-so with variations due to his bulky form, had to mix in form II a bit. The emperor is old but stupid powerful basically a battle master but prefers form VI and VII--Niman and Juyo. An outside chance at best for Vader winning.

I believe that Vader probably thought overtime that he could take the emperor but because of his suit he as well thought that could turn into a suicidal attempt and die with his master shotrly after killing him. Which its exactly what happened in return of the jedi but in that moment Vader didn't care about dying anymore, thinking for those moments in his son safety.

Their first fight realistically Vader could’ve done WAY more damage if it wasn’t RIGHT after his injuries. He was very very weak in the force at that moment, yet still pushed sidious back. Had it been prime Vader, he could’ve used that element of surprise from a push to quickly(and hopefully) slash in time.

I kind of think in the middle between the two schools of thought on how this fight would end. On the one hand, there are those who believe Vader could just beat Palpatine outright, as canon Vader is far stronger than his legends counterpart. This is optimistic to say the least. However, the camp that the majority fall into, the one that Palpatine would beat Vader 11/10 times with no room for debate is also an overgeneralization. I believe that yes, Vader’s general level of power is 80% of Palpatine’s like Lucas said. However, the remaining 20% seems to be mental even more than physical. Vader was cripplingly depressed, and not all of his pain transformed into rage. A good part of it transformed into deep sadness and regret, and Anakin Skywalker was still alive and almost came out several times. If Vader had truly devoted himself to the Dark Side and embraced hatred fully, he could have defeated Palpatine.

Sidious stated many times in legends that Vader's limitations were mainly psychological, not physical. Also in the new canon when Vader goes to make his red light saber the crystal almost turned green, and he had a vision of him going back to light and defeating the emperor. Nonetheless he rejected the seduction of the light side due to the fact that the emperor and the empire was everything he had left. Vader's limitations were always psychological, he even wore the suit he wore, not the best one (not bad either, but not the best one) cuz it hurt him and he used that pain as a way of keeping himself in touch with the dark side.

If wasn’t for the weakness of his suit I’d say yes. Even with his body disfigured and limbs missing his pain and agony would give him almost unlimited power in the dark side of the force… if he fully gave into it. That suffering was something the Emperor just didn’t have. Because of this pain I think Sidious was aware that the potential still existed in him. So he created a suit that would amplify that suffering while also limiting his ability to face Sidious on a level playing field. Palpatine wouldn’t have given Vader such a weakness if he didn’t still somewhat fear his power.

Palpatine was sick powerful. His master chose him as his apprentice for that very reason. Palpatine had the raw liking to rule and gain power. Anakin didn't. After becoming Vader, Anakin was dead. Vader was more powerful than Anakin. But one thing about Vader was that however the things might go there was a human part of him which helped him not convert to a total monster Palpatine was. Palpatine would not hesitate to kill. Nor would Vader but when it came to few cases Vader did. So Palpatine would have the upper ground unless Vader came up with an element of surprise.

Had vader converted all of his pain to rage against sidious he would've won, as it's stated that the new Disney canon Vader surpassed his master in terms of power. However the only reason he couldn't beat Palpatine was because of the mental conflict, as stated by Luke he still had good in him.

Hey Stupendous Wave! Love the videos! I've never been a huge Star Wars fan - I enjoyed the movies, especially the original trilogy as a kid - but never really got hooked on it enough to dive deeper. As such, I find myself in situations where friends are talking about interesting Star Wars lore and I'm just standing there like a fleshy statue. I really appreciate that your videos are very specific, succinct talks about, well, generally anything Star Wars. The fact that I can pop in and in roughly 10 minutes or less get a solid baseline understanding of a Star Wars topic is perfect for my interest level (and has also succeeded in getting me always hungry for more). That said... I've noticed that it's difficult to hear your voice when you're using very low bass background music (such as at the start of this video). The strong presence of the near-subwoofer levels of bass make it hard to hear your lovely baritone voice on top. Hopefully this is just a personal issue with my PC+speaker setup, but just in case I'm not alone I figured I'd mention it. PS - is there a unit of measure for Force abilities? My understanding is that midichlorians are an indication of how strong one's connection the Force is in general; but is there a unit of measure for how strong a user's abilities are? Or would you just use Newtons as we do with physical forces in our world? (IE - is there a numerical way to compare Vader's Force Push to, say, Luke's or Yoda's? Is there a number to how much power Palpatine could produce with lightning?)

To me the first example showed that Vader was more powerful in the force than Sidious but SIdious was gaslighting Vader into doubting himself. Considering how Vader's hubris had just lead to him having his leags and arm cut off when Obi-wan had the high ground he was probably weary of tempting fate again.

Imagine Darth Vader and Palpatine vs. Darth Plageius and General Grevious, interesting Fight/Battle! The Story could be that Plageius was resurrected by Starkiller and he decided to rebuilt Grevious in a New more lethal enhanced Forcer-User Killer form. Plageius wants the Empire and Grevious wants the title of ultimate Jedi/Sith killer!

I’ve always believed it’s all in Vaders/Anakin’s head. Once he finally broke the mental chains of Sidious, not to mention his vulnerability to lightning, his one hand, and damage to his leg, he killed Sidious with relative ease 😎

“I am your father “

Glad that Vader at least tried to saved the Twi’lek girl until Sidious ordered him otherwise. Couldn’t let Vader get anything over on him.

Palpatine: "Vader, did you eat all the cream of spinach that was in the fridge???" Vader: "I guess I did" P: "YOU ATE THE CREAM OF SPINACH THAT I SAVED FOR MYSELF?" V: "HOW THE FUCK WOULD I KNOW" P: "YOU KNOW I LOVE SPINACH CREAM VADER" V: "OMG YOU ALWAYS DO THIS"

I definitely think he could. With the rage within his power to hold a lightsaber and force his pain beneath his foes. To fighting for unwritten promises that he collapses beneath. What I would think he would do as he learned the ways of the dark side and the emperors flaws, he would have fought through a way to take him out before Luke had is potential to stop all. From what I’ve learned about the emperor’s confusion is that he doesn’t see the good in Vader, only rage and endless power. Lord Vader would have to go through the biggest challenge yet as the emperor knew all. It would be said almost impossible because the suit was vulnerable to lightning and he was afraid of death trying on a new suit. But I feel like Vader would have gone for it anyway but in the process building it with the emperor but without him knowing, Vader would make it immune to lightning. And without a doubt Vaders next move after learning the new body, he would have slain him right where he lyes in the Death Star. How he would do it? I’m not too sure. I would say he would make the emperor promise something and then lie about it setting him up to slaughter him him in Vader’s fury. Or he would have waited to face his son and show Luke that he’s not what he’s been told to be and kill the emperor. But in the end I think the emperor would win only because his soul would have been sucked into Vader. Like he wanted Rey to do. And would take over once again. I would believe eventually he would have killed Luke and waited for kylo to make the next unstoppable empire.

Excellent video

I think Vader answers that himself really. He doesn't ever really state that he wants to overthrow the empower until he thinks he can get help. Now if help never arrived then maybe he could eventually with a great plan but it would have to be with the use of his mind rather than ability considering old Palpee made sure that Vader's weaknesses to force lightning would always be present.

Sidiuos isn't really the all powerful being some make him out to be. Mace literally owned him until Anakin betrayed mace.

The background beat is insane I feel the anger!!!

Awesome Vid

I heard Palpatine had a drinking issue. That Sith Scotch is very smooth and potent. Makes you shoot lightning out of your damn hands 😂😂

I wish they would have shown the fight on screen in ROTS. It would be really cool to see an altercation between the both of them.

I believe that there would be no way that Darth Vader could ever hope to defeat his master primarily because of his suit and the injuries that he sustained on Mustafar and because his suit is vulnerable to force lightning that would be one of the biggest things that would probably lead to Vader‘s death

ive forcecrushed the sub button from the start of your channel!!! a few years ago !

just if vader had electricity proof armour

If Vader had some advanced race built him another suit that looked exactly like the one he had but somewhere the emperor couldn't see like how Yoda escaped to

If Vader had never been wounded by Obi-Wan, what would he look like after the Dark Side had consumed and had it's way with him? Would he have been hideously deformed, like Sidious? Or just a little ugly? I've always wondered about that. 🤔

Let's get a animated series following Vader and Sidious... I loved bad batch but imagine a show following them just slaying everything. The guests in that show could be top notch. I really want either a Empire show or even better a Sith show. I think people would go nuts.

Vader only could have won if he got a more powerful cybernetic suit that didn't restrict his movement and was resistant to force lightning

Why not? For one he did eventually end up killing Palps. For 2 Anakin was way more powerful then Kenobi was and Kenobi won their fight. Underdogs do sometimes come out on top.

what is the song at the end of the video?

I expected to hear about the time Vader threw Pelpatine down the shaft in the Death Star 2 at the end of Star Wars Return of the Jedi aka Revenge of the Jedi.

By "resistance leader" who they killed in the ambush you mean Istval? Cause Cham Syndulla lived because she made that huge twilek whose name I can't remember get him out. I would think he would be the leader of that resistance but I assume you mean the final leader of that strike group in the final ambush? Lords of the sith is maybe my favorite of the Canon star wars novels. The action was amazing and well written with a lot of clarity in the details. Characters were amazing, I loved istvals character and the duality of her outer strength and viciousness but also how hurt and sad she is on the inside. That book really laid bare that Vader at least at that point had no real hope of defeating sidious. Vader was almost awed watching him destroy a nest of lyleks by himself. I really think that trip to ryloth kept Vader in line for several years to come

Palatine has force lightning, and vaders suit was designed to be weak against it. Palatine might humor a fair fight but Purley for fun and if at any point the odds shifted he would just use force lightning and that would be that. There is no way vader would beat Palatine one on one. Simple as that.

Vader is a disturbance in the force

Sidious is way too fast, the only way Vader beats him is by surprise

Four when Vader fought Palpatine after The Empire Strikes Back, was electrocuted, dismembered, and sent back to Mustafar to receive the same immolation as he did in ROTS.

The Emperor is always checking Vader's phone to catch him cheating.

Only and only by surprise

You forgot about the fight from the Vader comic but you did include a shot from it when Vader has the guards in a force choke. Palpatine then chokes and crushes Vader and forces him to rebuild his suit.

It is the nature of the Sith for the Apprentice to challenge the Master, and no doubt that Palpatine was waiting for the right time for this very challenge. That why Sidious was so excited at the fact Vader did everything in his power to destroy and defeat his would-be replacements after the destruction of the Death Star, and even if he didn’t directly challenge him he still proud that he act like a true Sith Lord.

In the star wars Darth Vader Comic Vader attempts to kill the emperor with a beast on Exegol

I could see Vader barely beating Palpatine. But just like in Return of the Jedi, it would cost him his life. I think Vader never tried to turn against Palaptine and always stayed loyal was because he was the only one left who he knew from his past life as Anakin, while at the same time, Palpatine groomed Anakin into turning to the dark side since he met him after Phantom Menace, so in a way, just like Obi Wan, he too was a father figure to Anakin/Vader.

Introducing yourself as “Pain and Death” in a language only you know 10/10

Much like Sidious did to Plagueis got him drunk an surprised him whilst comatose. Thats kind why it works in ROTJ hesvto busy hurling force lightning at Luke not even envisioning Darth/Anakin would turn on him.

Vader is Taller so he has the high ground and would win.

I can’t see Vader beating Palpatine simply due to his overwhelming talent with sith lightning. Vader’s suit is a massive liability there, much like Plagueis’ rebreathers were a huge weakness when Sidious turned on him. An akin in his prime? Sure, probably. But not Vader.

That LAST time ALSO was a missed opportunity though as well.. he coulda just let Sideous get blown up an then took over as there'd been no one left near his power an abilities. Least no one willing to try at said point. Provided of course Sideous DIDN'T in truth KNOW or sense it but then left it there on purpose to see what everyone around him would do.. including Vader.. an of which this last time WASN'T even a fight but more like a secret test of Vader an his loyalty

few and far between (few and far from in between is not a thing). Like occurances are few in number and thus with long gaps between them.

I force crushed the like button and smashed my phone

Vader is far less vulnerable in canon vs legends. Legends he was only 80% of the emperor with a severe weakness to force lightning. While in canon the weakness is there it is nowhere near as severe. Also a misconception that people have about midichlorians vader in both legends and canon has the highest count as it’s based on cells and palpatine even makes note of how he still had his potential in legends. Vader still has the highest count ever recorded his issue in canon is the same one he had in legends. Belief in himself. Vader in legends believed he would eventually reach palpatine’s level but by the time he did palpatine would have surpassed it while in canon vader genuinely can reach that level within palpatine’s life time easily but it’s stated that vader had been tamed. He genuinely believed he was nothing without the emperor his conscious hatred of him didn’t come near his subconscious reliance on him.

What about that time in the new comics where Vader was chasing Sidious to Exogol? Where Vader tamed and controlled a space kraken, and Sidious brought his own. Blow after blow of one upping each other?

could you do this again but for legends

Would always have to be an element of surprise as Sidious would kill Vader with Force Lightning. And this is exactly how it went down. Vader through Sidious down the reactor shaft and suffered collateral damage of Sidious’ Force Lightning.

The last one is legends not canon you should’ve used the comic where he tried using the monster on exogol to fight Sidious

You forgot to mention that Sidious knew about the bomb and when Vader rode a flying space monster to Exogol to fight Sidious.

is the events from the second one also part of legends? it honestly sounds like events that could easly be in legends to

Vader would've needed a new suit in a straight up 1v1. Palp knew how strong Vader still was in the force and in time he grew stronger, hence part of the reason his suit used middling tech. If there was no Luke I think eventually Vader would've pursued a new suit and if Palpatine saw it he would've recognized his apprentice was prepare to over throw him. He mightve even come to respect Vader more for it. But I think depending on timing Palpatine held a clear advantage in force powers/knowledge that would've been hard for Vader to overcome.

What about that time in ROTJ lol? Also, that comic in which Vader took control of a creature that may have been a Summa-verminoth or something close and tried to Kill Palpatine with it.

This is why one should never serve evil

What about the confrontation in exegol from the vader series?

you might as well added the time Vader through the emperor down the shaft for those who didn't watch the original movies

Palpatine after fighting with Vader: "Ahh... phew... let's just cut this out, shall we, Lord Vader? Oh! How about we settle this over some space olive garden, how does that said eh?" Vader: "Extra bread sticks." Palpatine: "Extra bread sticks, anything for mi amigo."

Where can I find a list of books that are considered cannon?

He could only have the upper hand if he can somehow neutralize the emperors force lightning, That lightning gives him a very powerful range attack he doesn’t have to be close up and he can literally fry Vader’s circuits

I've always heard that they fought, a fight scene in season 2 of obi wan would be epic

I like the movie that george made and legends because vader felt like fear and power but in disney vader is treated like a weakling in the comics and in kenobi show vader was a raging person all the time but not caculating like in the movies this is just my opinion on it.

I think Palpatine wins for the sole reason that Vader's suit was so sensitive to force lightning. I honestly feel in a fair fight both would be on a level ground until palpatine tapped into his massive force powers.

You forgot to mention when Vader chucked old man Sheevy McGreevy down the death Star reactor

The question is already answered. Vader lifting, holding and controlling one handedly Sidious for longer than it took Sidious to kill three Jedi and then lobbing him down a shaft. Yeah I'd say he can win in a fight. Sorry palp fans.

Darth Vader DID kill the emperor though, sans clones or weird unlikely super impossible survival scenarios. He chucked his old ass down that power conduit and out of sight for the next 40 years. So yeah, the disabled sith Lord who took an electrical whooping took palpatine down and destroyed his empire. Everybody wants instant balance 😂 sometimes you gotta let that shit simmer for a while

During his duel with Yoda, Sidious mentioned that Vader would become more powerful than either of them. He said it in a manner that almost mocked Yoda. Vader was supposed to be Sidious's ultimate achievement and final victory over the Jedi. But then all of that changed when Obi-Wan whooped him on Mustafar. I believe even George Lucas is on the record as saying the emperor was disappointed with Vader, over the injuries he suffered. As a result, Vader's potential had been completely wasted. Had he remained whole, he would've no doubt surpassed and succeeded the emperor, as he was supposed to. But I think those plans went out the window, the moment Sidious found him on the lava shore. At that moment, Vader become just another useful tool, while the emperor looked for a more worthy heir.

If Darth Vader/anikan Skywalker Vs Darth sidious/palpatine was to happen in terms of force abilities Darth sidious would have the upper hand because of him studying the dark side as a child though sith artifacts from the black market however in terms of lightsaber combat Darth Vader/anikan Skywalker would probably have the upper hand due more military experience than Darth sidious/palpatine and his creative thinking the weakness Darth sidious/palpatine has is arrogance and Darth Vader/anikan Skywalker has is his cybernetic suit If Darth Vader/anikan Skywalker was to win he would need to catch Darth sidious/palpatine off guard and use his arrogance against him and get close enough and keep up with Darth sidious/palpatine's speed in lightsaber combat If Darth sidious/palpatine was to win it would require a far enough distance between him a Darth Vader/anikan Skywalker to release his force lighting and any other force abilities but only using his lightsaber as a last resort and to be quicker than Darth Vader/anikan Skywalker

Given every time Palpatine has been hit by the force (both by Yoda and Vader) means he views himself superior at all times and doesn't believe he can be hurt by the force. Obviously him being a Sith, regardless of his power, arrogance is his Achilles heel; which of course is what kills him in the end.

You failed to mention on the third case: Palps created a cult in an attempt to assassinate himself, and he use that to test Vaders loyalty

I think if he took on that new suit that is being talked about, yea he could've easily even imo.

Vader would need the perfect situation and setting taking place in order to have a chance at killing Sidious. Im sure by now we can all agree that non crippled, potential reached Vader can beat and over power pretty much every other life form in the SW galaxy.

Well we all saw that Vader did get the upper hand with Sidious when he intervened and saved Luke🤷‍♂️

He could and he did

Something I never understood is why Vader couldn’t just deflect The emperors force lightning back at him using his light saber very similar to what mace windo had done

I think he only can beat him if some emotional stuff triggers him just like his son's suffering in episode 6. Otherwise, he can not beat Emperor with that suit and his normal level of power.

Imo if Vader just upgraded his suit just to be force lightning resistant he would have a chance. Anywhere from 35-60%, his powers increased as he got used to his suit and new powers.

A simple force lighting could destroy Vader’s suit. Emperor designed the suit is keep Vader alive and being a servant, not an apprentice. If everything is correct that I read so far.

The simple truth is that the dark side doesnt fit to Anakin, he became weaker as soon as he joined it. And he got some serious emotional damage... Maybe all we needed to see Anakin become the greatest force ever in Star Wars... Was him having a therapie...

vader wasn't a full sith he only mastered the lightsaber skills and telekinesis skills he didn't mastered sith sorcerer sith archemy rituals ect like papaltine exar kun revan vitiate bane darth krayt did I hate Disney canon

Nice

What about the last Vader run on exogal?

That suit was too much of an Off-Button to Vader. In a straight up battle, Vader could now tutaminis Palpatine's Sith Lightning like Yoda could, understanding the malice and embracing it, powering him up instead. However, in the attempt, his suit could not handle it.

No way. Force lightning! Nuff said!

For a real Fight...Vader must have time to prepare,the Emperor could sense it,so Vader has to Upgrade his Suit beforehand to defend himself against Force Lightning,then Plotting,if Vader can catch Palps off Guard,then theres a slight chance Vader could win this,we've seen Weaker oppenents defeat stronger ones,so this could be possible!

I'll subscribe when you piss all the ads off

Why do he alway fail to notice that obi wan was good to him

i love star war

If he had better cybernetics and no respirator and years of dark side tutelage he would easily kick sidious ass.