I was a City of London copper for nearly 30 years and that area I believe has had several boundary changes over the years. That change was probably done to incorporate the Golden Lane estate which the Corporation of London (the council for The City) owned. I think that estate was probably built like the Barbican estate on land that was destroyed by the bombing in the Second World War. The City boundary would of course originally been along London Wall but it has shifted north over the years to include Fann Street and the Golden Lane estate. So now The City goes as far north as Baltic street, but only the buildings. Baltic street to the north, Goswell Road to the west and Golden Lane to the east all belong to the old borough of Finsbury which is now part of Islington. So back to Goswell Road, the shops and the Shakespeare pub will fall within the City but not the road itself. There will probably be ‘studs’ in the pavement that mark the boundary. So if you had a road accident in Goswell Road the Metropolitan Police would deal with it, but if you had a fight in the pub or shoplifting in the shops the City of London Police would attend.
I was a pupil at Dame Alice Owen's Girls' School and we were told the story of how Dame Alice came to acquire the land where the school was situated each year on the school birthday. She purchased all the land from Rawstorne Street up to the Angel, bounded by St John St and Goswell Road and used it for a school and alms houses. Thomas Owen was Alice's 3rd husband and a brewer and she had vowed after her lucky escape from the arrow that if ever she became a lady she would found a school for poor boys of the parish. From memory the boys school was opened in 1613 and the girls' school in around 1885/6.The school was voluntary aided with the Brewers' company acting as trustees and part of the tradition was that each year all the pupils received beer money - so initially 5 shillings in 1968 and £1.50 by the time I reached the 6th form. The pomegranate tree (in the diamond shaped decoration on the flats in Rawstorne Street) was the emblem of the girls' school and was on our blazer badges. The school moved out of London beginning in the 1970s and is now in Potters Bar, Hertfordshire
Owen's Field was originally the Boy's school - tarmac only! - playground which separated the Boy's and Girl's schools across Owen's Street. It was the c.19th Girl's school which got bombed and replaced by a 1960's block, now part of City & Islington College, the contemporary Boy's school being demolished some years after relocation to Potters Bar. The iron school gates were relocated to Potters Bar. The small building on the field was the Art Block. The woodwork/metalwork shops were a house in Friend Street. I was there 69-75, and I recall we boys only got Half a Crown (two shillings and sixpence or 12.5p) 'Beer Money' - I was robbed! The Beer Money was allegedly in lieu of the free 'Small Beer' previously given to the pupils to drink when London water was dangerous. The Boy's school badge - now for all - is essentially the Coat of Arms of The Worshipful Company of Brewers - representing barley, water and beer barrels... - with crossed arrows above for Dame Alice's lucky escape! The Crown and Woolpack on the corner of Owen's Street and St John's Street was reputed frequented by Lenin... Hic!
@johnusher1921 Hi John I hadn't realised the girls got more beer money - maybe the brewers thought we would be more responsible? 😉 Did you go to tea at Brewer's Hall ever? I recognise your name and think we shared A level chemistry classes! Barbara
I remember one day when walking down a busy Goswell Road, noticing you could pass underneath Turnpike House. When I did so, I discovered King's Square Gardens. At the time it seemed like going through the wardrobe into Narnia, and I've been fond of this green space ever since.
Thank you for taking a walk down Paget St. #11 (to the left of where you were standing) was my family's residence for a little over a century, from roughly 1774 onward, when Paget St. was called Brewer St.. #11 Brewer St. was the home of my 6th great grandfather William Finch (1731-1797) who was a victualler, warehouseman, and brewer, apparently the owner of the John Bull Public House which is listed as being in the area of Goswell Road. The pub might have stood in the gap at the end of the street, but I haven't been able to confirm its exact location. William voted for Lord Mahon who was very progressive, and had business connections with some one listed as Buckingham, Lord. William was buried at St. John the Baptist Clerkenwell, a churchyard that seems to have been paved over.
I’m fascinated by the Owen’s Fields story John. These tragic events can be documented in such interesting ways - it’s a shame there is not more at the site to tell the story. I did a series of walks in search of World War 1 bomb sites which was an area of London’s history I had not really considered before. The ‘road/street’ conundrum is a lovely bit of trivia. - great stuff.
I have lived in Islington since 1988 and still don't know half the places you walk around. Don't know why, but get very emotional whenever you do a video on Islington 😢 thank you ❤
Your good video made me look up why no roads in the City only to find the term road wasn't coined until the 16th C and the City predates this.Thanks for continuing my education!
Fletchers collected the feathers and attached the flights to the arrows... I'm not sure if they also made the arrows themselves, but of course, the bowmen did make bows. I believe there may be several surnames relating to the art of archery, such as, indeed, 'Archer', 'Bowman', 'Fletcher' and 'Arrowsmith' ....and probably also others to do with different types of archery equipment. My ex always practised archery and competed in many competitions...which led to my little bit of archery knowledge, but I never indulged in the sport myself and have forgotten a lot of what I learned through that relationship (during the mid '80's to mid '90's) ...so, my apologies for my limited information on the subject.
Plus "Bowyer", as exemplified in the Worshipful Company of Bowyers (38th in order of precedence) and of course Bowyers Sausages (pretty much top of any list I might make, I mean... sausages!)
Ah, New River - one of the original offstreams used to run right through my house and gardens (New River Sports Centre, I used to go through that as a shortcut to school). And damn, with all the flaming rain, i have 3 new ponds in my garden!! damnit!!
The New River doesn't go all the way to New River Head anymore. It only goes as far as the reservoirs at Woodberry Downs. It was truncated there just after WWII. The section that runs through Islington was mostly overground, and you can see the path quite clearly along streets like Astey's Row Rock Garden and Colebrooke Row.
Well I lived at Rawlstone Buildings (Brewers Buildings nowadays) as a baby. My Mum lived Hermit Street as a child in the late 30s and 40s. Thank you for this nostalgic video. It was a very poor area in my mum's day.
Thanks,that was a trivia fact I knew of.The other was Bond Street is in Ealing.The roads near Bond Street Station are Old Bond Street and New Bond Street.
What a great video and story, John. I love wandering round London, following my nose rather than my intended route. As for Goswell Road, I believe it has only been part of the City of London since boundary changes on the 1st April 1994 (The City and London Borough Boundaries Order 1993). In fact there were loads of boundary changes on that date as part of the changes by the Local Government Boundary Commission for England that was created in the 1970s. Obviously the Commission didn't respect the historical fact about The City not having any roads.
Originally no thoroughfares within the City of London were called 'road'. However after some boundary changes near the Barbican part of Goswell Road now sneaks in.
As recently as 1994 apparently.. Sounds like it was only done by some miserable spoiler... Anyway it's only half a road so London still doesn't have ONE 😂
I think you will find that the saying refers to no roads within the walls of the City of London. Goswell Road/Street is well out side the walls. Well at lease 100 roman feet. Even Fleet Street was outside of the Roman walls.
The Angel has a special place in my heart. There's always something of interest in central London, I do like films which have an unscheduled element. I wonder what The Shakespeare is like inside? I bet you went in. Nice one John! 🌟👍
Great video, I had no idea about Goswell Street -> Goswell Road, I did recall though that the Golden Lane estate was within Islington until 1994 boundary changes where the City of London absorbed it, so I wonder if the boundary would have stopped at the point where Algersgate Street meets Fann Street before then? A very recent addition!
Very interesting. I live in a place (West Kirby in the Wirral, Merseyside) that has only one Steet. We have Roads, Parades, Lanes, Avenues, Closes, Drives, but only one Street. Its a question that comes up in local quizzes from time to time.
When I used to live in the area, me and mates used to go to the off licence on Rosebery avenue and venture up to the top Michael Cliff house and take in the view from the balcony, you can't go up now
Hi John have enjoyed your video s for a couple of years. In the mid eighties I worked in a pub called the White Horse opposite the daily Mirror in Fetter Lane.Fascinating place to live.There were 3 other pubs within 400 metres. From Gary in New Zealand
The City dragon used to be further down towards the Barbican. I remember it well as I used to frequent the cafe opposite where the dragon now resides. The days when I was a City GPO engineer.
As one of those who commented on the question of a road in the City this video was particularly interesting. I was not aware of Goswell Road originally being a Street! (I agree, Kennedy's is one of the best. I also think Fish Central is also very good.)
Love this walk! You and your camera gliding through the bustle of the city. Wonderful buildings - especially those deco ones! What a great story! Thanks so much for this great video!
The W1 area around its boundary has roads a lane and an avenue, ie... Piccadilly, Charing Cross ROAD, Tottenham Court ROAD, Euston ROAD, Marylebone ROAD, Edgware ROAD and Park LANE. Every thing else inside this area is STREETS, PLACE, LANE, SQUARE and MEWS but NO ROADS.
I suspect that the two municipal areas of Islington and the City have an "agreement" over who has responsibility for the Road/Street ... the boundary seems to follow the Road/Street and the Boundary post seemed to be on the eastern side of the Road/Street. I'll bet the City starts at the building boundary...trust them!!😉😄
OpenStreetMap’s data, which is usually pretty accurate for boundaries in London, has the road being part of CoL at that point. Where it briefly has a traffic island before the southern end (side fact: the start of Goswell Road is the start of the A1) the boundary is shown as running down the middle of the northbound carriageway.
@@jrguk I think I'll leave it to the Officers at the two authorities. Thanks for the video. I like your work and as someone who lived/studied in these areas (City Poly no less) it's good to see them.
Great video learning something new about London ,when i worked in London in the mid's 70's ,i was told Great Tower st and East cheap were two streets in one ,one side Gt Tower st the other side East cheap ,urban myth i do not know !
Apparently it's just a pub trivia quiz question. City road stops a little short of the Dragon in Moorgate/ MoOrfields. Farringdon road is not to be confused with Farringdon street. And Goswell Road is almost entirely In Islington or Camden. Goswell road is only in the City of London for a short stretch and only on one side of the road. Purists say there are no roads in the city of London because technically a road has to connect two villages. These villages when the city of London was formed were separated by fields and open land. The connecting streets were called streets. It is only in the modern post war era especially the past forty years where everything has become cluttered together with no open land. Overall you summed it up nicely.
What a joy! I worked in Old St for years and most of this was new to me. I never knew of Paget St or the other streets you took a wander down. Too late for me to explore now living in Perth WA, alas. BTW years ago I always preferred the Artillery in Bunhill Row to the Shakespeare.
Respected Sir,Goswell road and street,street word is very beautiful word,and yes tell us the Answer of your question ❤😊 Long live Great Britain 🇬🇧 ❤very nice video
Hi John. Another great walk. Could you please take time in your London area videos. To actually explain how and why there are so many roads, as you say. That underneath there are rivers. Too flowing. Why did they make the roads over the rivers. And how did they do and go about constructing these roads. I'm really fascinated how did these. For instance one road you pointed out there is a river underneath. And you placed your microphone to hear it. It's just one of those things that Most People just don't know the fact. Fleet Street for instance Great Videos. I live in Ruislip and enjoyed your walk around the River Pinn.
I’ve literally just come across your channel , wandered into your street , sorry Road, as it were. I’m a London buff so I have subscribed and look forward to more videos. Cheers
When I worked for Metronet (on underground station refurbishments) our office was located virtually opposite the Shakespeare pub. We’d occasionally pop in there for lunch. Sadly, we couldn’t drink at lunchtime as we had to abide by TfL regulations - same as the drivers.
Fascinating walk full of historical references which serve to illuminate the present - including the naming of streets. City Road, like Goswell Road begins at the Angel, so is it, or part of it, within the City of London, I also wonder.
Hi John 😊I am glad I came across your video. I find your whole channel very educational and, I'm sure, in demand by curious people, especially London newcomers. RE this video: I have a question: why a Road and not a Street (and vice versa). What is the difference..? Thank you 😊
A road was normally main throughway from one location to another location . (Ie City Road, old Kent Road) .the Road to..... A street is normally a place with houses where people live.... Over time, this has eroded. So not relevant, but that was idea.
@@TimB8232 "Road" came from an old English word for journey on horseback, hence coming to mean main thoroughfare as above. Street ultimately came from Latin strada, which meant paved way. I guess at some point in history most of the city roads were paved, and would have had buildings beside them, while many rural roads with no buildings would have been unpaved?
@@deanbutler1467, true. The difference would be streets were local to an area. Where Roads led to somewhere different (hence prefix names). But most roads now in city's have been swallowed by surrounding buildings, so lost it's true meaning.
Great video again John , only complaint is that it's not long enough 😁 I just came across Michael Moorcock's latest books , the White friars trilogy , set in multiple versions of London and tied up with an autobiography of his life , Psychogeography and the Multiverse also the conclusion of the eternal champions story , the first two books are already out and he's working on the third one which he says will be his last novel , I'm going to read them all very soon , all the best John see you soon , bye 🌈💚☯️⭐
Sounds like you may be conflating The City with the 'How many roads are there in the W1 postcode?' conundrum. One, that being Totenham Court Rd. Lovely content as always...
Good coverage around the area of my school (Dame Alice Owen's School); shame that Ken Livingstone (GLC Leader) effectively got rid of the school from inner London, and later the buildings went
The ambiguity of the name won me many pints back in the day when i lived in Golden Lane, there were boundery changes back in the 90's which brought the Golden Lane Estate back into the City of London from Islington, so technically that part of Goswell Road was in Islington and not The City up until 1994.
As a footnote there was one block on Golden Lane Estate that was always within the City Boundery that was Cuthbert Harrowing House in Fann Street, the City of London Dragon was situated directly opposite outside what used to be the YMCA before being re situated on the corner of Baltic Street in 1994.
If one wanted to be extra pendantic you could point out that even that one block of Goswell Road is only half in the City as West side of the road is still in Islington. (As evidenced by the road signs at the end of your video that say "Brought of Finsbury.) Is it really "in" the City if it only forms a short portion of the border? Not that I would ever be so pedantic.
I thought the same, as The Borough of Finsbury became Islington and only later did that estate become part of the city (I'm assuming to fulfill a quota on the council to supply social housing) so Goswell Road is a border and not actually "IN" the City
@@DadgeCity It skirts the boundary, running from the junction of Old Street through to the junction with Grays Inn Road and so isn't within the City of London
The old City boundary would of course been at the Moorgate. But these days the City has crept north and the northern boundary now lies along Chiswell Street to the west, then dips south before going east along South Place and Eldon Street. City Road only comes as far south as Finsbury Square, there is then a section of road called Finsbury Pavement before it reaches South Place. Finsbury Square and Finsbury Pavement used to be in the borough of Finsbury, which now comes under Islington.
Thanks John I'm a pub drinker I like your videos you was at one of my locals once white Hart Hampton wick I've not seen you but was once sure I sp0tted you kingston hill 😢
I hate to see London succumbing to the plague of graffiti, especially on that memorial sculpture. Perhaps a plaque explaining the tragedy would help keep it from being mindlessly defaced.
Following on from the brick buildings in John's video, can I recommend the fascinating Roger Bisby video on the history of London bricks: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-671PxfI37hg.html
Plenty of roads in the city of London. When i went to school there i lived on both Hyde Park Road and Wonderland Road. London Ontario in the summer is a great place for stroll.......sorry
I like money John I don't have enough I on benefits I always looking for your latest videos I'm wrong if you like thanks I have apergers syndrome i like you
