This is a fantastic episode, combines so many things that I love, old maps, old language, cross referencing, stumbing around in ditches and bushes looking for clues and trying to come up with ideas to explain things.
Loved this video, I think your idea about mapping Roman roads is really interesting, just from the personal research I have done, I have found that some of these lost roads, sometimes also follow older routes, that may have been used prehistorically along with the more famous known routes like the Ridgeway, and if you also take into account the prehistoric long barrows, henges and hillforts its intriguing the network of routes you see unfolding. Although due to mobility issues I can't get out as much on the ground, as I used to, I would be really interested in helping where I can with your project!. I was the Ian Duncan (not my name), on Tom's latest video who suggested Cold Kitchen hill to investigate, so it was great to hear his views. This area to me is one that deserves some investigation as I am sure this maybe a tributary of the Ridgeway. I think another interesting question, is which came first the Roman road or the Holloway, in some of my walks hollow ways can be found very near hill forts, so some of those hollow ways maybe a lot older than we realise and even predate the Romans.
A classic vid, this one, for inspiration, they always are, but this one includes the issue of channeling inspiration to look closer into an active working compilation of the Roman Roads that aren't just the most visible straight, military roads.. Holloways, by the nature of how the 'hollow' part was created, for certain must have existed well before Roman times - Though there are some that are on level ground, the Holloways on slopes look like they were created by water flowing down along them, thus digging out the ditch effect of a Holloway. So wherever there was a specific route up and down hills, is a possible Holloway, and there were routes enough before Roman times, so Holloways included. It looks like Roman Roads on slopes have their drainage ditches close to the roadway, so there is no undermining of the agger, where water would be running close alongside of it, drained away by purpose-built ditches instead. There's also probably no doubt that for the Roman side roads, or 'B' roads, there were those that the Romans followed earlier existing route-ways.
you mentioned clay used for the roman roads ...the potters used to dig out the clay to make pots... clay that was part of the roman roads..leaving a hole behind which people and carts fell into.hence the name POT HOLES in the road
I thought was from the more modern connotation of the Alternative Agriculturists removing the road structure to use it (inverted) in their indoor hydroponics set-ups? 🤔😱😈
Hmm.. doubtful. early 19th century: from Middle English pot ‘pit’ (perhaps of Scandinavian origin) + hole. Middle English pot "a deep hole for a mine, or from peat-digging" (late 14c.)
Fascinating stuff. Immediately subscribed to Allotment Fox. I love the idea of throwing the call out to see if others can help further uncover these routes. I'll keep an eye on your channel to see if I can play a role in the plan.
I've been thinking about a comprehensive Roman Road map for a long time, but I really have no idea how to do it. I think crowdsourcing information is a very good idea, there are loads of local historians/amateur antiquarians around the country who are best placed to know about their local area. I've been really enjoying the many recent collaborations between the RU-vid Antiquarian community, maybe this project could be a collective effort? My area of interest lies in the Bath, Somerset and former Avon area, if I can help, I certainly will!
By OS maps, I meant their historical series. I purchased 3 of the series back in 1984: _Roman Britain_, _Britain in the Dark Ages_, Britain before the Norman Conquest_. I expect updated versions have been published since then.
@@llywrch7116 I know how to find them, I meant I don't know the first thing about setting up an online map database. My computer literacy is almost non existent 😅
@@robgrabowski2572 Try contacting OpenStreetMap; they have one of the best online maps ever which is constantly updated. Now it is true that they mostly deal with the current state of the surface but there is some historical data in their database as well. For example, there used to be an old railway close to where I live in the Netherlands. It's not in their online web map, but I was surprised to find a reference to the line in their offline map program for mobile phone (OsmAnd) and when I used their map editor (a desktop program) to download that part of the map the reference was indeed there. So I guess it depends on the 'view' if you see such data, I wouldn't be surprised if there is an 'archeological' view.
There appear to have been multiple early routes of the Fosseway through Bath, as the river around the old Homebase/Stothert&Pitt/Gasworks area changed its course during the Roman period. Back in the 80s, a local geologist was involved in a series of drillings along the river front, and discovered traces of the old river bed.
Since I'm here in the 'States your videos seem to come up right as I'm finishing up my morning coffee. Granted that those branches of my family from England left that land, nearing 400 years ago, for the Virginia Colony, I find these discoveries fascinating and quite enjoyable.
Very interesting video. There must be many branches leading to/from each of the major Roman roads. Mapping them sounds a great - though formidable - project.
02:10 Via the LiDAR you can clearly see a massive complex (looks Roman to me) off-centre from the middle, sitting mainly in the SE quadrant. The complex covers approximately one sixteenth (1/16th) of the entire screen, to give scale.
There were, of course, lots of roads in Britain before the Romans arrived. They may simply have improved bits of the existing road. So you would get improved bits that look Roman at either end of a Celtic trackway.
The first thought I had about Margery44 was that perhaps this is a "military" road that for some reason was never completed. The constructors marked off the route, then started the road agger at Cunetio and Sorbiodunum, then, for whatever reason, stopped. So you have the equivalent of an unmetalled track for the rest- just cleared of trees and bushes, and the boggy bits filled in. Maybe. My second thought follows on from Tom's Anglo Saxon tracts. Down at Seaton (Devon) there is a "Harepath Road". The moment I heard this (Years ago!) I thought Saxon 'Army Road' or 'Heer Pad'. (I can't find a Saxon 'th' on my keyboard.) May be of use?
I do really feel that could be the answer. The ditches normally marked the boundary and we have no evidence of them either. So yup... perhaps planned but only part complete
beorg... seems to be related to the German Berg (mountain). Very interesting topic here and a fascinating new way to find Roman roads through the Anglo-Saxons. ^^
Hmm. Two similar AS words are in play here, that can be confused: according to my copy of Henry Sweet's _Student's Dictionary of Anglo-Saxon_, there is "beorg" meaning "hill, mountain; heap of stones", & burg/bur(u)h (pl. byrig/burga) meaning "fortified place; (fortified) town". Modern berg (which I think is a modern loanword from German) vs. burg.
@@llywrch7116 As pointed put in the video in Old English the letter g was palatalized. That is the tongue was raised towards the roof of the mouth. That means it sounds like a y. The spelling with g was retained because there was still significant understandability with Old Dutch, Flemish, and Frankish, where g was still pronounced as a voiced velar stop or fricative. This is why in English and its relative Frisian we say "day" where all other Germanic languages say "dag" or "tag". That is why you sometimes get -bury in place names.
Yes it does. But take it forward a couple of hundred years and you have ‘bearyuh’, ‘burruh’ and then ‘barruh’ (barrow). No German needed, English through and through.
Hi Paul, we know it's going to be good when the first thing you do is disappear into a hedge!! I'm amazed that these charters still exist and can be used in this way, fascinating...... I'm off to the allotment!! Have a great week
12:38 Not what I was expecting to see in the countryside 😂 However, many thanks for introducing Allotment Fox to us all, he's got another new subscriber.
🇺🇸Tacoma Washington state West coast U.S.A. Here. The only reason I'm watching this, is because I watched the movie, Roman Road, with Alan Davis. Fun movie, but I wanted to know more.😊
What an exciting project. Alas, I don’t think I have expertise or time that would be useful to you, but I truly hope you can achieve this. What a way to leave a legacy!
I will fly to the UK for months just to do this. What an intensely cool and exciting thing to do. I can put my archaeology degree, long dusty yet treasured, to practical use. You need to arrange like a formal project and then manage a programme and then set it out. You'll get at least one Canadian and I'll venture a scrappy lot more. Volunteers will flock like very odd geese, er, flocking.
It's a shame then that most Anglo Saxon charters were lost with the dissolution of the monasteries. Where I am in Worcestershire we're quite lucky because Worcester monastery library continued to a large extent as Worcester cathedral library.
This is fantatsic! I live in East Kent. The main Roman port into Britain was at Portus Ritupis, (modern day Richborough), it had a huge triumphal arch there to make a statement to visitors and leavers alike! A short part of the route is traceable here! At the other end was Durovernum Cantiacorum, (modern Canterbury), again with a traceable Roman route at the start that's still in use today. In the middle is nothing! There must be around a dozen different routes on record, none proven. Routes have been suggested by 18thC Antiquarians through to 20thC Archeologists. Fieldwalking has found very little, but various tantalising finds, albeit unable to be connected up logically. I think(!) I've traced a likely route that hasn't been suggested before, (albeit it uses parts where clues have previously been found). It aligns with farmsteads and hamlets that all have 'Stone' or 'Sten' in the names, (perhaps notable as there's no natural stone outcrops in the area), and also runs along hedgelines, (some that appear out of place in the landscape) and obviously lengths of various parts of footpaths and roads. I'm going to dig around for the old Anglo Saxon boundaries!! I want to solve the puzzle!! n.b. The route cannot be a straight one, owing to the marshy topography of the area that cuts across the known start and end locations of the Roman Road. Indeed, one of the only clues in the landscape of the likley route is an agger branching off at 40 degrees from a straight agger that defines a 'Roman Road' that can be found in a wood near Littlebourne, to the East of Canterbury. n.b. I also wonder if, going out on a limb here, perhaps some of the confusion and disagreement between those who've tried to trace the route in the past is bacuase a One Way system operated! Who knows? What was the volume of road traffic like?
I marked down where i found roman pottery and finds on my permission ,it went right across a field, i told my FLO that i reckon it was a roman road or trackway ,when they did some geographics on the fields where we I found the Roman hoard ,low and behold a roman causeway appeared and ditching each side
Very interesting video, I’m heading straight off to search the Anglo Saxon charters of my area and piece together where I think the Roman roads are and will probably be completely wrong, thanks for sharing😊
Its a brilliant idea to follow on from Margary's maps. Make sure that the data that is gathered has revision control so that edits can be proposed, approved and merged with a master copy. Like any open sourced software project.
Just looking at google maps while watching. For this one, I think the route that follows Old Marlborough Road, through Salisbury plan could be a contender. It runs through several of the charters mentioned, from Salisbury, Amesbury, Bulford Camp, to Everleigh and beyond? Perhaps, that with the chalk so close to the surface, the Romans might not have needed to build up the road as in other places? Totally agree though on putting together a roman road map, perhaps something to combine all the roman sites known as well, as there seems to be various maps with different places marked.
Junctions of old roads, are often not a neat X roads. It’s highly likely Roman roads were the same. They meet and cross another Via but at not at the same point. Paul’s North-South route probably takes a “dog leg” kink via* T junctions at adjoining roads. * There we go it’s still in use.
My Sunday evenings just get better! Thst was really interesting and the photography was good too. I will definitely look at Tom's channel as well. Thank you as always. 😊😊😊
Paul, Margary44 - had a quick look at the Lidar and it seems followable all the way. Coming down from Savernake Forest it appears to connect to Old Marlborough Road. It is not dead straight and adapts more to the contours but you would expect that. It was a quick look but I am reasonably confident.
I'd love to see D.Ratledge lidar video on this. There are a few really obvious routes as you suggest, but I've struggle to see any Agger outside of Savernake. Your Lidar always tends to see more than mine! Would love to see your interpretation
Tragic really, I wanted nothing more than to imbibe your impeccable content Paul. Sadly, I'm born and raised in North America. So now that I've seen "Big Belly Oak" labelled on your map, I can't think about anything else. Why is it named that? Who named it? Does it really have a big belly, or is everyone there just mean? These are the questions I now need answered. GOD DAMNIT THE PEOPLE DESERVE ANSWERS
When they worked on strengthening the foundations on Bath Abbey a few years ago, the workmen uncovered a perfect ancient mosaic floor at 8 meters. Archaeologists said cover it over with sand and concrete and work the foundations higher at 6 meters. Madness really. To get planning for the digging of footings anywhere in Bath is a developers nightmare. But thats where i would begin mapping old roads in southern England. Bath. I wouldnt even say Roman roads either, you didnt have to be Roman to build a straight road. That would be just pigeonholing ourselves to a historical opinion which is at best, uncertain. Sometimes it better to throw everything out the window and start again.
Yes. A great way to find roads, map other roads that may intersect. Could a roman road have been striped of its aggar to build what we would call a branch road. Were all roads completed. Did some just fizzle out to a muddy track to changed priorities.
@@pwhitewick awesomeness! I also want an app for that, the old maps, and now roman roads / tributeries Ps I was at a mates house in Somerset and they've bought land where the Grand Western Canal went thru... Complete with remains of one of the boat lifts :)
Hiya Paul - @ 1:21 - I like the sign which say "The Cows have been Mooooved on"!!! lol 😄😄Also you keep on saying the word / name "Straet" which sounds very similar to my surname "Streater" 😉😮🚂🚂🚂
Id love to find out more about roman roads south of Exeter (Isca). This could be a useful technique. Goodrington has roman burials, but no roman road leading to it. (That i can find)
The branches that leads off a Roman road must lead to resources or infrastructure the Romans were dependent upon for them to invest in building it and that they repaired it must have made it important. That branch could lead to Roman villa's or even a fort or temple.
once again thank you, yet another great video!! ( why could our Saxon forefathers not use "English" like wot we does 😀😀😀😀😀😀 )Once again thank you for one of the best You-tube channels out there.
Roads need to cross rivers and streams. Are there any remains of Roman bridges in your area, or have they all been long washed away over time? Another interesting video.
When the Danish Nordic Normans of Normandy famously conquested England in 1066, and followed the west coast, and main towns, and got to a river crossing with the remains of a Roman bridge; they called it Broken Bridge, or having settled in Normandy for 200 years or so, they spoke French, and so Pontefract - 'fractured' / broken bridge (ponte). There are also the zig zags of Roman Road remains, where they descend and rise to cross Rivers, with some Roman Bridge footings visible. Remains of bridges guessed to be rare, because the Romans built their bridges with wood, and River courses that have changed have washed away remains.
@@paulberen It shows what a loss the fall of Rome was. The Dark Ages is in my view a description of the period after the fall of Rome that is very appropriate. Thank you.
@@pwhitewick ..An English Mile now 1,760 Yards - And the Romans by one account built forts or camps every 10 Roman Miles along their Military Roads, as the distance soldiers could march to their next stop for a rest. By this account there are a lot of missing forts and camps to be found! A Metre is a French Yard, by the way, because the Metre length was created by Napoleon, wanting a French not English measurement, so he had the distance pole to pole, subdivided into sections nearest to the length of an English Yard, and so the Metre.
Probably a stupid question. Have you tried going the other way on each end. Also I live in Salisbury was wondering In what neighbouring town is the Salisbury section of Roman road I would be interested to visit it.
@@pwhitewickWas wondering if there was anything south of Salisbury or more north than Savernake forest itself or if they just stop from those points. In-between makes sense with portions of roads so it probably did all exist at one stage. Perhaps much of it is either destroyed by inferstructure also portions of it may well be on private land or flattened due to farming ect.
Agger and aggregate actually come from two different Latin words - agger is the Latin word for an earthwork or rampart whereas aggregate comes from the Latin verb aggregare which means to gather together and is related to the noun grex meaning a flock, herd or group of people.
