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What makes you think Paramount was going to make such a 'Heart of Darkness' vehicle? I'm a Trekker since 66, and no such thing emerged in pre-production talks.
So what I've learned from this video about Insurrection, Star Trek V, and Star Trek: Picard is that main lead Captain's actors should not have creative pull.
I agree! I'm a fan of Stewart, however giving him 'Right of Refusal' of the script in his contract meant he could demand a love interest, decide his own wardrobe(hence the leather jacket) and more action scenes involving him. Rather than an ensemble movie, tackling difficult thought provoking topics.
And while he didn’t request it, fanboy script writers eager to please him were the reason we got that stupid Mad Max at home car scene in Nemesis. Rather than have any care for a proper script or integrity of the world, Stewart just went with it.
This sounds like it could of been one of the best Star Trek movies, it had everything: action, moral conundrums, space politics, a fun villain, and Picard speeches
Picard dressing down the Federation council would have been epic. Could have even thrown Spock in there as a surprise guest star at a climactic moment.
@@BulletsandblockbustersIt would have had to be a 3 hour movie but I would have been great with that. Heart Of Darkness could have been the best and there could have been a little comedy in parts thrown in, enough for a little chuckle. It literally could have been "the best of both worlds"
@@vintvarner16 But Paramount probably wouldn't have wanted to pony up the required cash to get the good version made. I'd be willing to bet that was the main reason Berman rejected the original concept, not "worries that Patrick Stewart might feel old."
Michael Piller wrote a really fantastic book called "Fade In" that describes a lot of this. He describes the process of writing the script, getting notes from Rick Berman, Patrick Stewart, and Brent Spiner and said it was a little heartwrenching to get such critical and negative notes from Stewart and Spiner, individuals he idolized. It's a really fascinating book about how these big studio movies are made. This video is a great cliff notes version. Great work!
Honestly, we home Star Trek to to much of a high standard. 70% of the show is shit to be honest. The rest is top tear. The actors typically are what makes this stuff crap.
The TNG films suffered from not having a overarching theme to them, unlike the TOS films which often dealt with aging characters in a universe that was rapidly leaving them behind and culuminated in Star Trek 6 literally putting Kirk on trial. The TNG films should have focused on Picard and crew trying to uphold their idealistic belief in the Prime Directive in spite of the Dominion War which had severly tested the DS9 crew. It would have been intersting setting up the TNG crew as a sort of relic of the idealistic past having to confront the darker, more troubling realities of the the Apha quadrent during the Dominion War.
The trouble is they did the ‘heart of darkness’ type story already as an episode with cardassians in ‘the wounded’ with capt maxwell going rogue and O’Brien bringing him in.
I'm in the minority in that I liked Insurrection even if, like some, I felt like it was a two part episode of TNG (which is why I liked it honestly), but I do think doing something like Star Trek Heart of Darkness would've been far, far better than any movie that came after Insurrection. I mean I'm still of the opinion that Star Trek Nemesis killed the franchise.
That story sounds very familiar to one of the TNG stories where Picard had to go after a Starfleet captain who went after the Cardassians. Bob Gunton from the Shawshank Redemption was the captain he went after.
@Mazvec It would’ve worked if the Dominion was behind the treaty, meant to divide faction relations to that point, while slowly acclimating audiences to who they were, then revealing the big surprise at the cliffhanger.
It's better, but the Dominion was Starfleets' most dangerous enemy other than the Borg. This was TNGs chance to join the conflict. I know Berman was not a fan of the Dominion arc, but for the Enterprise to stay out of one of the Federations' biggest conflicts made no sense.
And yet Disco went on to do the exact same thing. “Hey where was the Enterprise during a horrific war where the Klingons were literally on Earth’s doorstep and the only thing that stopped them was blackmailing Qonos with a planet-cracking nuke?” “Busy! It was BUSY!”
The Dominion could totally worked, say they suggest a ceasefire and claim the planet as part of a new DMZ, just like they did on DS9 trying to negotiate for a specific planet because it had resources to make Ketracel-White. And given Picard's history, have the main villain be a Cardassian Gul maybe even Madred himself.
I think the big problem is that DS9 simply did not have the ratings and casual viewers might have not quite understood what was going on. That would have been their reasoning any way for not pursuing completely ignoring that they successfully pulled that same thing off with the Borg. A Dominion War movie would have been awesome.
The Amish who somehow managed to exile an entire ruthless space armada with the power of their single village and farming tools. … Dear god in heaven this backstory is the prototype for Rebel Moon.
As much as Insurrection ignores the Dominion War this script even makes less sense the Federation, Klingons, and Romulans were in an Alliance fighting the Dominion when these events would have taken place. Also, Picard graduated Starfleet Academy in 2327 and Insurrection takes place in 2375 meaning he'd been out of the Academy a lot longer than 28 years.
That’s because this draft was written in 1997, well before the DS9 writers eventually decided to have the Romulans join the Federation and Klingon Empire.
It's kind of amazing that in almost every single Star Trek movie starting with Search for Spock, the Romulans were always intended to be the villains and they end up getting sidelined for something else. Even in Nemesis when you think they are finally going to be the villains in a Star Trek movie it ends up not being them. They are literally the earliest recurring villains in Star Trek and never were antagonists in a film until the whole series was rebooted.
It kind of makes sense, because the Romulans are very "Cold War" in how they do things. They never try to directly do anything themselves, they always manipulate the other factions against each other and make sure they themselves have plausible deniability when their plans inevitably fail. It is interesting to me, though, that First Contact wasn't a movie about the Romulans. In Generations, we saw the Romulans on the observatory who were allegedly competing with the villains of that movie (making us think they're up to something), and then in First Contact the bad guys are a race who can't defeat the Federation 1 on 1, led by a Queen (or an "Empress"), who go back in time so they can stop the humans and Vulcans from meeting and working together. It really sounds like a Romulan plot. If Nemesis was going to culminate in a giant boss ship fighting with a fleet of smaller good guy ships (with a Picard clone and a corrupted brother of Data who should've been Lore), that one should've been the return of the Borg and the grand finale all in one.
@@HyraxusPrimus I agree and I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing that the Romulans never ended up being film antagonists, I just find it very funny that they were constantly being planned to be villains in almost every single movie but were always being sidelined in favor of other villains. Even in Undiscovered Country the Romulan ambassador was supposed to the be main antagonist and he ended up not even getting a name in the movie. Personally I always felt Nemesis should have been a Mirror Universe story, with the Remans being mirror universe Romulans. Even all the marketing for that movie made it seem like it was Mirror Universe.
@@UndyingNephalim I was thinking of the Undiscovered Country, too. They also didn't have any consequences for when they did openly attack and kill Starfleet personnel when trying to steal the Prometheus, and hilariously when they were set up to be the next main villains of Enterprise, the show got cancelled. I kind of see the Mirror Universe angle. It would've saved having to cast a younger Picard and could've been a better case study of nurture vs. nature if they were the same age, and we had never seen the Mirror TNG crew before. I guess it would be a Terran plot to use the Remans to retake the empire from the Klingon/Cardassian Alliance, and they need something from the Prime Universe? Cool. Alternatively, there's a problem since the Mirror versions are almost always cartoony evil versions of the Prime counterparts. As fun as that would be to see, it might lose the gravitas of the story.
There was also a script proposed that had the E and its crew assigned to the Battle for Betazed in the Dominion War that would have been awesome. Mostly because Deana and her MOTHER OF DEATH would come out of it as mushroom cloud laying badasses with major PTSD. There was a novelisation of this concept that has a foreword from Marina Satiris basically saying "I wanted to do this shit not shaving Commander Riker"
The movies did Troi extremely dirty. Generations - Riker has her take the helm right when the ship is going to crash. First Contact - Gets drunk. Insurrection - Shaves Riker’s beard. Nemesis - Gets mind-raped by Tom Hardy before he was cool
Focusing the ninth movie on anything other than the Dominion War was dropping the ball. That was a no-brainer, yet somehow they missed it up, leading to the demise of classic Trek.
@@jaytalks8091 Assigning the flagship to diplomatic duty makes some strategic sense. Chuchill did something similar in the early years of WWII and Archer and the NX01 crew followed his example during the Romulan War which led to victory at the battle of Cheron. Personally I'd have gone with the diplomacy mission but had them confront a neutral or semi-beligerant faction like the Gorn or the Tholians as the object of the exercise.
I’m still waiting for a Trek movie that continues the alien worm infiltration episode from Next Gen. Remember, a signal was sent to the stars at the end of it…
Actors should act and leave writing to others (of course there are exceptions to the rule, but not too many). Last month I visited Fedcon in Bonn, which had next to Star Trek guests also some Orville guests. During a panel the four Orville actors were asked if they had a story idea. The first three present their ideas, which were not so good. And then the fourth, Penny Johnson Jerald (who also played in DS9), says: "...and that's why we leave the writing to the writers".
That exception has a name, and it's Leonard Nimoy. Maybe the difference is Nimoy pursued artistic ambitions outside of acting, such as photography and directing non Star Trek movies. So he wasn't thinking of everything from the point of view of what will make Spock look good. And when it came to writing "Voyage Home" he had the good sense to work with Nicholas Meyer.
@@gups4963 true in this case! Though he also was not shown original versions of the story, so it’s possible he would’ve gone for it. He wanted more serious stories for the paramount+ show
@@benreed9952 Generations he splits with Berman, Nemesis he killed (though I liked it, just not the dune buggy bit). the first 2 seasons of Picard were eh pretty bad IMO. , First Contact his changes might have helped, Same with the last seasons of TNG. Berman has one heck of bipolar history with Trek. He is a classic certain type of hole (yt loves censoring), but is also the guy who ran ST through its most successful period. I can see why people have a personal issue with the guy, for example Terry Farrell's firing. But on the success and failure of the movies, that appears to be more on the crew as they were given a lot of power over them and Stewart never appearing to care the more cerebral aspects of his character and wanting to be shown as a man of action or he was having a midlife crisis. Just my opinion, have a good one
Insurrection should have been a Dominion War film, where the Enterprise-E joins the fight. A few throwaway lines regarding how the war was raging across both the Alpha and Beta Quadrants, and then finally a mission for the -E to enter the Gamma Quadrant, engage, and destroy a Dominion threat there (new superweapon) that would have otherwise resulted in the Federation, Romulans, and Klingons losing the war. Tie-ins to DS9 would have also increased viewership of that series, instead of waiting for streaming to do that 20 years later.
An excellent alternative suggestion! Your last sentence reminds me of a friend that finally understood why I liked DS9 so much back when it was new/current after he started watching it... in 2020!
I think the Stardust plot could’ve worked at introducing audiences to the Dominion, rather than relying on throwaway exposition, and then Stardust 2 would serve as the big showdown. And yes, DS9 being in it would’ve done that show and the movie a whole lot of favors!
X-Files: Fight the Future came out the same year, so there wasn’t a template for how to really do that with an active TV show. And this would be a lot harder than that, since they aren’t the same show. I mean, it might have been beneficial for DS9 to have the TNG crew explore their topics, but you’d have to explain a lot from DS9 in that movie, and then DS9 would have to explain what happened in the movie. Also, you’d need something better than sending one ship to stop a super weapon. That’s way too Star Wars, and we’d already seen the Dominion muster huge fleets, almost right from the start. Can’t really throw one ship at that.
I always thought a good idea for a Star Trek show would be about a Romulan who immigrated to Earth as a child and entered Stargleet and rise up to be the captain of his very own crew with his first mission to be to apprehend a Romulan criminal whose the leader of his own crime syndicate and a childhood best friend of the Captain’s who had a harder time adjusting to life on Earth and decided to walk a different much darker path. The Captain’s crew would be composed of officers from other races of the federation and one Ferengi as a nod to Nog with only one human officer just as a change of pace. The show would be called Star Trek Odyssey with the ship named The Ulysses.
They should have done a balls-out 18 certificate sci-fi horror where they go back to the episode with the alien bug creatures that took over Starfleet Command. Duffy would ultimately get infected and Picard would be forced to phaser him in the head. Get Paul Verhoeven to direct.
I’ve always wanted a cinematic return of that species. They’re so powerful at infiltration, even the Borg and the Dominion wouldn’t stand a chance. I nominate John Carpenter to direct!
@@commandercaptain4664 ooh yeah even better, turn it into a Star Trek / The Thing horror. Someone’s head could melt off and sprout spider legs and scuttle off into a Jeffries tube.
I remember taking a friend to see this movie, who knew next to nothing of Star Trek, let alone TNG. He was a visual arts majoring in Visual Arts and both liked the story and loved the visuals
Insurrection gets a bad rap. It's the only one of the TNG movies that feels like an episode of the show and where Picard really stays true to the character we came to love over the 7 seasons.
True. It is the only one to stay true to the TV series. But maybe it feels too much like a TNG two parter. Michael Piller was the showrunner for TNG SEASON 3-7. He set the tone for the success of TNG and subsequent series together with Rick Berman. While I liked First Contact in the cinema, the logic of the story irks me. Why does the Borg need to travel to earth before travelling through time?
In the series, Picard decided multiple times that removing colonists from a planet for the good of the Federation is a good idea. And no, the Baku are colonists. They say so. They’re just really obnoxious and smug on top of that. It’s entirely out of character for Picard to help those selfish luddites hoard a resource that could help billions. Especially after it’s revealed that they (somehow, inexplicably) exiled the Sona in the first place.
The revelation of an unaged Duffy hallway thru the story is TOTALLY a classic Trek-type of reveal, tho. It has an "Omega Glory" vibe to it, where Kirk and Co. beam down and find Captain Tracy alive on the planet, immune to the disease that killed the Exeter crew, leading a war btw the Yangs and the Kohms. It's a travesty that this version didn't happen. Seems to be the norm rather than the exception with Paramount.
After hearing that alternate version, I still prefer the version we got. Insurrection was the closest in spirit to the television series, and after First Contact I don’t think another dark action movie was necessary. It’s true Insurrection was more like a rehashed two-part episode than a movie, but for me that is actually part of its charm.
Agreed. And a 1000 times better than what was the working title Star Trek: Stardust. I mean, seriously??? At that point just call it Star Trek: Pixie Dust for God’s sake.
First Contact is still my favourite Trek film. They’ve nailed every aspect of what a Star Trek movie should be. It’s like what Goldeneye is to Bond. Perfection.
The entire "Enterprise" TV show is a sequel to "First Contact". Frequent references to Zefram Cochrane, an episode that dealt with the consequences of Borg tech left in the past, and the ever-present theme of humans and vulcans learning how to be together. James Cromwell reprises his role, and a mirror universe episode even explores the events of First Contact in the Mirror Universe. Enterprise is the one true sequel to First Contact.
Wow.. i wish stewert still felt that he didnt want picard to go through emotional agony on screen. He seems to have done a complete 180 for the picard show..
There are three things that I think could have been kept from the film that was shot: 1. Donna Murphy (doesn’t matter what role she plays) 2. The Enterprise-E (the heavy hitter of all vessels to carry the name) 3. Jerry Goldsmith (he was the default composer for the “Star Trek” movies and his themes are absolutely brilliant)
Yeah, this Heart of Darkness concept sounds alot better. Then again, anything sounds better then what we ended up getting. Funnily enough, I am re-reading "The Ashes of Eden" by William Shatner (and the Reeves-Stevenses as co-writers) - which is basically the same plot. Fountain of Youth story line, captain Kirk gets younger, gets a love interest and has his old crew coming after him. It came out in 1995.
Starfleet getting Jellico to do some black ops style thing during the war makes sense. Him going straight to high end war crimes and having to send Picard and crew to stop him would have worked.
I like this movie. Why mission must be something larger than life? Why it must be saving galaxy or even universe? I think mission is suitable for crew of one ship, even it is the Enterprise. And Picard gives the best speech - And how many takes Admiral, to become wrong? A 1000, a 50.000, a MILION. HOW MANY ADMIRAL!
Star Trek Insurrection is one of my favorite Star Trek movies. Together with First Contact, it forms a perfect duo to watch. I don't understand why everyone thinks everything should be dark and serious. It seems that everything gets that treatment nowadays, from James Bond to Batman. For me, Star Trek has never had that in its DNA and I am so happy that Insurrection exists just the way it is. Too bad Star Trek Nemesis came and destroyed everything.
Insurrection should have been an all-out war action movie, given it took place during the Dominion War. It was the perfect excuse to make the action movie Hollywood loves.
Paramount was still stuck in cheap mode regarding Trek, which would be admirable if they always knew how to spend their budget, instead of sporadically knowing.
Ss@@Bulletsandblockbustersspling of stsr trek into darknes you shou dinvideo about jj abrhana plane had h drected star trek bryond b his lldnf star trek beyond wrd dfrent fromwehtvwevgit
Whereas DS9's Homefront and Paradise Lost storyline succeeds, Insurrection fails. In DS9, there's an blatant urgency to discover and foil the plot of a power-hungry dictator of an Admiral, with a proverbial clock ticking down to settle the fate of the freedom of BILLIONS. And man, these two DS9 episodes would have made for a BLOCKBUSTER standalone film, as written AND as casted. With Insurrection, we're down to one tiny village of 600 we've never seen before ... and suddenly, only ~5 years after "Journey's End", Picard decides (hypocritically) THIS village is worth fighting the Federation for. "You have made an already TENSE situation WORSE!!!" becomes "lock and load". Uhh why? Meh who cares - let's blow stuff up!!! ... NTM, the displacement of defenseless people is ALWAYS a grim matter. ... But let's make it a lighthearted comedy?! What?! 🤨☹
Nothing about this film works. I would add the uniforms should have ditched the grey, and gone back to the red, blue and yellow as primary colors, particularly if the intent was to make a light-hearted film. The greys worked to set the dark tone of First Contact. They matched up tonally with the Dominion War. But they have otherwise felt just too brooding and lifeless for Starfleet.
I have a problem with Riker vs Picard hunt. For Me Insurrection has become more watchable over the years. It suffered from being a much smaller story after First Contact. This original story would have needed some rewrites.
Another brilliant video - thank you 🙏🏻! I’ve always wondered how successful a TNG film tying into the (then) ongoing Dominion War would’ve been? In terms of Star Trek ‘what could have been’ videos, how about one on the original idea for Star Trek 11 (before it was made a soft reboot) - Star Trek: The Beginning, set after Enterprise, and focussing on a new crew and the Earth/Romulan war?
There’s an entire draft for a book about this that was released after Michael Piller‘s death that was never officially published. It goes into great detail about all the different iterations of the movie script, starting with the Heart of Darkness idea and how it evolved into Insurrection. About the only part of the actual film that remotely resembles the original idea, is Data going berserk at the beginning. Either way, a total missed opportunity
The storyline of what you described was infinitely more intriguing than what we got in Insurrection. That was flat and the plot was trite, like we'd seen this play out before. And we had. Insurrection could've been so much better with this original plot. Rick Berman outsmarted himself yet again.
The Voyage Home worked for the TOS cast, but the First Contact was where the TNG movies were at home, the darker appeal fit perfectly with the cast. Insurrection was a bit weird because the same tactic doesn’t work for two very different casts of characters. Insurrection’s plot was also panned for being morally questionable, even illogical by Spock standards.
Im not even very familiar with Star Trek but that sounds like a great film. I'll never understand why films go into production with unfinished scripts or ones that people arent happy with - it rarely ends well!
See The Justice League. Everyone knows in real time what they have is a disaster. But failing to release any film at all will cause too many people to lose too much money to be acceptable.
They tried to do Wrath of Picard and ended up with a crapload of plot stalling followed by a bunch of potshots, a problematic mindrape, and a lifeless sacrifice.
It sounded okay. The Briar Patch should have been a dimensional rift that transfers life energy from people into Duffy, making him like a cosmic vampire. This would also explain why he wanted to get the Romulan empire to where he was... for more bodies he could drain. The fountain of youth aspect doesn't work since the entire galaxy would be after it and also our main actors would have no excuse to keep looking older every movie!
At least that's a story worth watching, and a much better follow-up to Frist Contact. There is a little bit a of a congruency problem, as Insurrection takes place during the Dominion War. Whether it was supposed to take place before 'In the Pale Moonlight,' in which case the Romulan's would be tentative allies of the Federation at that time, is another question.
My friends and I LOVED "First Contact". When we watched "Insurrection", we were like, "Eh?". It really did feel like just a regular episode of the series. "Nemesis" too.
Am I the only one who LOVED Insurrection? It DID feel like something that could have made a satisfying TV episode and I appreciate it all the more for it. Add to that a great Jerry Goldsmith film score and villains that have a certain emotional depth to them, what's not to like? Actually, film score composer Goldsmith mentioned in an interview how impressed he was that he was dealing with villains NOT intent on destroying Earth, but scared of dying of old age.
Would have been awkward starting a war with the Romulans weeks before Sisko was going to get them to break their non-aggression pact with the Dominion.
I’d love this ideal. You could’ve turned it into a trilogy like Star Trek 2,3, & 4 did. Having the first two movies end in big cliffhangers with the final movie being a huge masterpiece. You could’ve even shown parts of the Dominion war. Or at least hide it into the Dominion war. You could’ve saw the conflict with the huge morality of Picard. Which would’ve led him into the events of the Picard series .
One problem modern Trek has is that television production value has gone up so much (even in the 90's) that movies don't provide nearly the increase in quality over TV that they did in the TOS era. The movie screen is huge, but the visuals don't have that WOW factor, they're just bigger. A lot of people used to see Trek in theaters specifically for the effects which were incomparable to home. Now they can just wait for streaming and see it on their crystal clear 75" OLED on their couch. Another issue is that TNG era show creators didn't work in film and they were simply pushing (and sometimes exceeding) their production abilities. A few of the effects and costumes which were fine for TV simply were not film quality and it doesn't take very many minor missteps like that to take you out of the experience.
All I remember is it blew my mind that the Dominion War wasn't linked in to the movies. As a teenager I didn't understand the network politics at all, and felt like it always felt off that nothing of substance was ever linked up beyond a brief mention of how they needed all the allies possible after the war.
It looks to me like Berman (or someone near the top) was beginning to regret giving Data an emotion chip at all about this time this film was made. It was reduced to a single mention ("He didn't take it with him." Even though it had been established in Generations that it was fused into his neural net and couldn't be removed) And in Nemesis, they were acting like it had never existed at all (except in a deleted scene where Geordi found it in Data's room.)
I don't agree that would have been better. I think it would have just felt like a rehash of the Episode, "The Wound" The only way I see it working is if they found a character as impactful as Khan was to the Original Movies from TNG. Good luck with that
Did you ever watch the TNG Season 6 Episode 141 Tapestry? Picard's friend Duffy died not long after he got his assignment from the star base him and Picard were stationed at.
Still more interesting than the movie we got, but the concept was a bit similar to ST V, no? Considering the era it was set in, Insurrection should have been about the Enterprise's crew's direct involvement against the Dominion. If Sisko held the front line for the Federation, they could tell a story of Picard going behind enemy lines. Akin to the Dominion War novel Tunnel Through the Stars.
Actually now that you bring up the 'heart of darkness' plot to get the renegade Brando character, that is precisely a major plot point for the finished movie, with Admiral Dougherty who has 'gone rogue'. Indeed it's a better movie because with Picard along with the audience to learn and discover Dougherty's misdeeds (and not just get handed an order from Starfleet to get Dougherty like what Capt Willard gets in Apocalypse Now), thus compels Picard to make the serious decision to step down from his official captain's rank and take on Dougherty personally. This is a good entertaining movie.
5:15 - 5:29 this... this is such a wonderful, Star Trek idea..! Dayumm now I'm depressed because I know such a great character arc was taken away from us 😢 Well, at least Insurrection still stands as the only TNG movie that actually felt like TNG and not like a forced action movie with a bunch of aunts and uncles pretending to do Die Hard
I feel like they had already explored this concept in the TNG ep 'The Wounded' where O'Brien assists in tracking down his old captain, who is destroying outposts because he believes the Cardassians are fortifying their positions. Would've still been cool as a film but maybe that's oe reason they didn't do it?
Everybody should read the book 'FADE IN: The Making of Star Trek Insurrection - A Textbook on Screenwriting from Within the Star Trek Universe' by Michael Piller, who wrote the Insurrection Screenplay. It's amazing what they had to go through to develop a screenplay that made everyone happy. He had to address all of the 'Studio Notes' about elements that the Executives demanded be included in the movie. While ALSO making sure that all of the ACTORS were happy with how their characters were portrayed... For instance, they were worried that the entire 'Fountain of Youth' story might offend Patrick Stewart by suggesting that he was 'getting old'... And things like the whole stupid 'Picard drives a dune buggy' scene was suggested by Stewart because he's a big 'car guy'.
It confounds me to no end that they replicated a dune buggy to blend in the natives, only to be discovered by the natives because of something as subtle as a dune buggy.
Somehow, I never really had a problem with "Insurrection" -- but what's described here would DEFINITELY have been WAY better! This is clearly one more example of "too many re-writes". (THUNDERBALL, BENEATH THE PLANET OF THE APES, HALLOWEEN 6, etc.)
