The deep breath Bortus takes is powerful af. He hated and resented Klyden for his beliefs and what he did to Topa. And the apology was almost like an apology to Bortus as well.
Peter Macon is a criminally underrated actor. He portrays emotions big and small in incredibly deep and believable ways. His performance has made me cry several times! He has mastered the subtlety of minor facial cues that show complex emotion.
What really sells his redemption is his response to her saying it’s okay. “No it is not.” He knows how bad he was and truly wants to be better. That’s a damn good redemption arc.
Exactly. From her, "it's okay" is her forgiving her father for his mistakes. And the way he says "No it is not" seems like he has thought about it, deeply, and realized how absolutely horrific his words were to his own daughter, and he wants her to know it was never and will never be acceptable. Edit: And as he stated, she was almost lost because of his beliefs and the people that shared them. Which makes him realize how horrific they are, and he has ultimately realized he would rather let them go than lose his child.
Yes! Klyden has been a very unlikeable character for quite some time so for the storyline to progress and get the audience to feel so much empathy for a character like Klyden is genius on both the writing and from the actor angle
@@jackwhitbread4583 You feel this much for Klyden exactly because of how unlikeable he's been, and beecause it's clear that he's just now really realizing this.
"No. It is not. You... were almost lost. Because of people who believed as I did. I... I... I thought I hated you. But even then, I never wished you harm. I simply... did not know how to live with you. I allowed a lifetime of prejudice to cloud my judgment. That must change. I must change. I want you to know that I accept you, Topa, exactly as you are. And I am proud... to call you my daughter."
Those powerful words need to be broadcast throughout the world. Maybe, just maybe someone will take them to heart and stop fearing for their own femenity or masculinity. 😮😮
Ben Levan I especially love that, from this point on, it's so clear how happy they are. Every moment Bortus' family is on screen, it's clear that they are working to make things better. The only real scene we get after this of them fighting was when they couldn't figure out how to crack walnuts...and anyone who's tried to crack a walnut knows that they were giving very appropriate reactions.
@@CheshireCat-cm1siNothing brings a family together like tragedy, it's when you need to rely on each other the most and have each other's back. My sister and I weren't especially close as we grew up and barely talked in college and then my mother had to get an emergency surgery and we rallied around her and it made us so much closer
When Bortus closes his eyes and breathes, you can see his shoulders drop. His whole body lets go of the stress he's been holding in for so long. It's a subtle and beautiful bit of acting.
This was the moment that 110% solidified my belief that not only is this probably one of the best “Trek” shows, it’s also a fantastic show period. This is the kind of thing that needs to be shared, and while I already did it tremendously over these last few years, I’m going to be pushing even harder. This show needs, no DESERVES More attention and accolades.
Klyden is great because he's so weak as a person. He hid behind his prejudices to the point that he made a lot of trouble for people on the basis of them. Seeing him have this moment was powerful because you know that the Klyden from S1 would never, ever have done it
Every other show would have used this position to take extra shots and Klyden, Even the high society of Trek has shown it's petty vengeance, that Klyden needed to be punished for his behavior and shamed. Instead, they show a man, consumed by a lifetime of being taught self hatred, and bigotry. I love that there is nothing about forgiveness, only acceptance and moving forward. Chad L Coleman just destroys you when he admits his weakness and hatred. Peter Macon has a difficult job of displaying his emotions behind a shield of stoic masculinity which you still see cracks forming. It's criminal how under appreciated this show is.
There's a part of me that thinks that Ty and Topa may wind up as BFFs. Ty looks poised to follow his stepfather into the sciences and Topa feels like a future command potential.
That's the unconditional love of a child for you. She still loved him even when he walked out on her. And she still loved him when he came back, even before he apologized.
@@AvengerBB1 They really made a good decision doing that, since they don't know if there will be more or not, but given how spectacularly well recieved this season has been I'd be surprised if there weren't more
this was such an amazing scene because of just how real it is. Klyden acknowledges that he's a work in progress, knows that it won't be easy to change, but he's determined to overcome a lifetime of prejudice for the love of his daughter. This really comes together later on at dinner when Cmdr. Grayson pops by. Klyden struggles to act graciously with her, despite his prior resentment of the Commander, yet he invites her to dinner with his family anyways because it's what he needs to do to change.
I love the show. The writing for the show between Season 1 and Season 3 has gone to another level. This scene and the scenes with Teleya the Krill and the relationship arc between Issac and Charly were some of the best writing I have seen for a long time.
This was such an important scene laced with all of the love, sadness, anger, and pain that exists when families deal with these very human issues. These actors knew the emotional impact of it, and delivered in fine style. I’m so proud of this show for so many reasons.
I think he’ll at least learn to live with what he was and become a better person. And knowing that the people he loves forgive him will help him heal too.
Wow! Some distance covered. But still some very considerable distance yet to go! A child is still a child with responsibility for that reason. Klyden has taken the step that was difficult to do. A parent is still a parent!
I don't know if its the actor or the make-up in this scene, but it just gets me in heart how soft Bortus' eyes are here. He usually has this hard serious look normally. But here you can see the tenderness he has for Topa.
I never thought a stark trek knock off written by the family guy dude would make me cry..but boy did this scene get me teary eyed. Klydens serious heart felt apology broke me. Major props to seth and everyone else who worked on this show. It is really somthing spectacular
This is one of the episodes in my favorite shows that made me cry so hard that I couldn’t see, I’m so glad for these kinds of episodes and that people can change
It's been so long that I can't remember right off hand except the death of spock. Discovery has some great moments because SMG plays emotional moments so well and the fact that she looks like my niece.
Actually I've only ever had a couple Trek episodes hit me anywhere near this hard. Orville is the first one of these shows that purposely kept a bigoted character around just to watch everyone hate him and now 3 seasons in he's finally figured out what a dick he's been. This is a great payoff for 3 years of tension waiting for some sign that Klyden was capable of personal growth. Turns out he was, and the release of tension from this episode is all the better for being so long delayed. Finally we get to really see the spark of goodness that even exists in a person like Klyden. This is superior storytelling to Trek. Trek has never let the tension build up this long. With a very occasional exception in DS9 the characters that explore subjects like bigotry and intolerance are usually one show wonders. This isn't a one off character, this is a central supporting character, that we've watched be awful for a very long time. We know Klyden, we know why he now wants so desperately to change, and above all, we know how very, very far he has to go. That makes it hit much harder. It's just like the famous Nog-Sisko scene hits harder because we know Nog and know this is a big step for him and we understand why Sisko is wary -- because both characters have had time to marinate and have shown us who they were and how they are changing. Trek has almost never had the patience and planning to give us a payoff like this.
@@RabbitShirak oh man! When ever I watch that episode, I almost finished my box of tissues. Especially, the last part when he is alone in his room and playing the flute.
The acting in this scene is amazing. That shuddering breath of Bortus', you can feel the restrained rage in it. Then the exhale at the end you can literally see Bortus let go of all the anger and stress that had been building ever since the stuff with Toppa started.
As funny as this show is, when it hits deep or has its deep moments it HITS DEEP and I love how Seth knows when to be funny and when to put it down and be like “nah real time”
This scene makes a lot more sense when you think about the fact that klyden probably can't have a kid of his own. So he doesn't want to lose what he's got.
I never had much love for Klyden. I was actually happy when he left the show (albeit only for a few episodes, but I didn’t know that at the time). This scene changed all that. I do love a redemption arc, and this season was full of them. From the possibility of the Krill becoming peaceful, to Charly’s one-tone character becoming one of the great sacrifices, to the Kaylon eventually realising the error of their ways and joining the Union… and Klyden, who has always been dislikable, finally coming around and changing his ways. I REALLY hope they get renewed for another season, if not moreso.
I may have been mis-reading the subtext, But I thought alot of Klyden's problems stem from their own trauma in regards to their own past. Klyden grew up in a hurtful society that pointed their hatred/prejudice at Klyden. Everytime Klyden looked at Topa, who was so strong and brave, it reminded Klyden too much of what he went throughof what Klyden wasn't, and the only way to deal with the pain was to project it onto Topa. I absolutely hated the character of Klyden for how they treated a child, let alone their own. I didn't want the character to come back BUT it was a very beautiful and healing moment for Topa's character, who in all honestly, deserves nice things.
I like how Toppa's/Moclans arc is something both people on left and right can learn from. At first it's a strong argument against sex change operations made on little children, but latter episodes explore child's developing identity against strong tradition and believes. Both sides of transgender discourse can learn from this. No matter what we feel and what we believe in, at the end of the day, we should always consider child's best intrest. Not our own or our believes. But Orville is a fantastic setting with alien race "tailored" by writers to tackle this issue. In real world we cannot just flip the switch or do minor operation to alter someone's gender in one evening. I'm also sure, that if Moclans were are female species, this would be much more criticized.
There are no sex change operations on little children except on intersex infants. The only way to look at it as somehow anti trans is if you buy into the right's paranoid nonsense about children somehow being forced to transition.
The reason this scene guts me so much is I once received an apology from my father I didn't even know I needed. I said to him, "I want to say it's okay..." his firm reply was, "No, no it's not. And that's fine." Pretty much saying, no, you don't have to absolve me of or forgive me for this one. I'm gonna carry this mistake with me always. And that's fine.
THIS WAS MY FAVORITE EPISODE (and scene -- great acting!) of the ENTIRE SERIES!!! I don't know anyone trans, but as a twice suicide-survivor (family rejected me for being gay), I could relate 1000%. Hope there's a 4th Season! We need more of these kind of stories on TV.
Seriously The Orville deserves way more love than it currently does. This show tackles so many real life problems and instills so many good values for it’s audience to learn from. Themes such as addiction, racism and sexism are written so well into its storylines and I sincerely hope one day this series blows up!
We all make mistakes and hiding behind culture traditions and prejudice just makes them a coward who refuses to change for the better even though change is what helps us grow. If we cling to the past and just stay in the present than we can never hope for the future. But Oogway from Kung Fu Panda did say “Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That’s why it’s called the present.” So we can’t stop change we need to accept and embrace it. For the future doesn’t belong to the previous generation it belongs to the next who shouldn’t follow the and make the same mistakes as the previous one.
So much better than modern Star Trek. I watch that drekk and feel nothing. This elicits emotion because the characters have actual story arcs that are relatable.
Everyone is talking about how Klyden has changed, but no one is saying anything about how Bortus reacts to seeing Klyden, He clearly is still in love with Klyden but is also weary about the last time they saw each other.
What I love about this scene was for the last few episodes they made Klyden into a pile of shit and made him say words that no child should hear. But this scene in only three minutes made me forgive Klyden already. This show is fucking amazing. I need season 4!
I was almost ready to give up on this show after Gordon made a vgirl but between this and the abyss episode I'm convinced that the parodies of star trek (lower decks) are actually better at being star trek than star trek is right now.
I am so heartfelt glad the further series of Orville became so emotional and understandable. Thank you so much for this video, this has totally made my day. 🥲
I love most that Klyden says "I must change" rather than "I have changed." He knows that a single apology won't make things right with his child, and a single moment of realization won't overcome a lifetime of indoctrination, but he is willing to try to be better rather than saying that he is now better.
People have no idea how long i waited for it! It always rubbed me the wrong way that Klyden is so clearly depicted as conservative fanatic, when he himself is a victim of moclan culture, since he is a trans man, i always wanted them to show some angle of maybe coping with it by embracing his culture to extreme. I just wrote him off after he left and said what he did to Topa, there shouldn't be returning from it. But they did it. Klyden not accepting Topa forgiveness right off the bat, knowing that she is too vulnerable right now, to make such decision, and telling her that he must be changed, god. And when he invites Grayson to dinner, good god he be reconciling with anyone.
@@weathersama604in "a tale of two topas" they hint at this by having klyden declare that "every child is unhappy". That tella us that he probably went through the same feelings topa had in her childhood, but Klyden had to force himself to overcome that because he had conservative parents and also he didn't know he was born female
@@AguilarSquared Yeah, that entire episode was just awful, along with the lengthy history of transphobic jokes throughout Family Guy... But The Orville kind of helps put him on a better path, just like Klyden.
@@papertigerworkshop1174but are they actualpy phobic? I mean, they make fun of cis white people all the time, it's not like the show is focused against trans people. I think that including them among the various groups that are made fun of is just kinda their way of including them. Maybe it's not fully appreciated, in a similar way to a roast that goes a bit too far, but i woukdn't jump the gun and call it transphobic
What I love about this scene is that Klyden already stepped up by addressing his daughter as "her" when he first entered the room. That's when you know he's willing to make things work.
@D C i don’t believe they went into that kind of detail. I believe the appendage was missing altogether. Hense why when she hatched there was an immediate recognition she was female not male. Then again was never implied either way so who knows.
@D C Even if that was the case, I doubt that last part. If anything, the writers will keep her female and have her join the Union to work on the ship alongside Bortus. Have her be the beacon of light that shines away the dark void that the Moclans bring, and prove that female Moclans can do more than hide away on a separate planet.
@@mrscwchino That's headcanon. The only thing the show shows is that females are much more rare than males, and aren't needed for reproduction. You are correct that she isn't transgender now, but she was for the time she was male.
You've also got to understand that Klyden is also a victim. Because all his life he's been told females were inferior and found out he was born female.
And it was done in such a believable way. People like Klyden often don't come around until something catastrophic happens. The thing I love about this show is that things are not black and white or easily wrapped up with a neat little bow. Even the smallest of actions have far-reaching and complex consequences, characters experience growth through tough situations and not just "because the story needs to progress". Also, even the most unlikeable characters have complex personalities and reasons for why they are the way they are that you can't help but respect and understand.
The best part of this is when topa says "its okay" and klyden says "no, it is not okay" what you were raised to belive, does not make it okay to be a horrible person, and klyden knows that now, he did not ask for forgiveness, he just told his daughter he accepted her
And promised to be better and change, admitting your mistake is the first step and then actually committing to changing is how people actually change. That's what's so amazing about this show, it does character arcs so damn well. This is how people ACTUALLY change in real life, many shows would have done some quick "I'm sorry" "it's ok" *hug* type of thing but this felt real
I’ve noticed from some clips that Klyden can be seen out of their room more too, even talking to some women if I remember correctly. I love watching characters slowly progress, it’s honestly impressive what they did with Klyden on the show
Don't forget, Klyden was born female. Probably on Moclus and had the surgery... Who told Klyden he was born a she? And why would a Moclan tell Klyden he was born female? Not for Klydens benefit thats for sure. And Klyden was taught, by his peoples values, to hate himself for it. The best he could hope was to go unnoticed and hope no one else would find out while being as Moclan as possible to disperse suspicion... Klyden lived the life Topa would have had. While Klyden did act badly, I can see where it stemmed from. We know Klyden loves Topa, but Klyden feared that what he went through would happen to his daughter and Klydens own issues hadn't been resolved as he hid from them, trying to be as Moclan as possible. In some ways, this isn't about gender. This is about escaping an ideology that teaches you to hate yourself for being born the way you are. The Orville capture this perfectly. Bortas, the one with an open mind. Topa, the one who the subject carries the most impact. And Klyden, the one who walked in Topa's shoes and chose the other route because that's what his culture demanded and he wasn't ready to defy his culture until what he loved more was almost taken away from him.
I really like how they made you hate Klyden and convinced the audience he was written out of the show, sold by Bortus and Kelly developing chemistry. But in one scene he managed to complete an entire redemption arc, without which, we'd never gotten "HURRAY! HURRAY! HURRAY FOR YOU! HURRRRAYYY!!"
@@victor2641 ' I wish you were never born' it takes a real piece of shit to say that to one's own child. Luckily, that need not be a terminal condition.
He competes his redemption at the end of the episode when he invites Kelly to join them for dinner. He would always ignore Kelly when she was with Bortus since she was female. Bortus even called him out on that once. You can even see Bortus smile at the end when Kelly joins them.
Klyden's whole issue was self hate. Because of what was done to him as a child, and how everything he was feeling conflicted with everything his culture taught.
I never truly hated Klyden, because he is inherently likable. He's good natured, charming, supportive and a loving husband and father. His actors performance also helps a great deal to make him so and they gave him numerous moments to show that off. It's why it's all the more horrible that he let himself descend into bigotry and prejudice and shows that many such people in real life aren't snarling monsters but normal people like any other indoctrinated into cultures of hate.
Given his past spitefulness towards her, when he called her back just before she left, you could see she was expecting more of the same from him. Offering to share a meal is definitely a step in the right direction when it comes to changing his ways.
@@bradleyj.fortner2203 After the hugely positive review scores and fan reactions for this season, and D23 (Disney's big expo for announcements of future products and shows/movies) coming up in just a couple of weeks, I'm holding out hope that they announce a renewal then. I believe they only greenlit this season because while the first two seasons were good, they still lacked here and there. The execs likely wanted to see how well a show like this could do before deciding to renew it again.
I like how you can tell really quickly that Kylden has changed, in that he's actually willing to use female pronouns when referring to her. And he did exactly what you're supposed to when apologizing for something so terrible that could have destroyed your relationship with somebody important to you. You don't ask them for forgiveness, you don't try to give excuses or reasons why what you did was reasonable at the time, you just acknowledge that you did something terrible, that you recognize it now as terrible, that you know it hurt them, and that you'll do better going forward, even if you can't undo what you did before. You take responsibility, don't ask for forgiveness, and simply hope that they can find it in themselves to give it to you.
i'd like to think Klyden's coming around, but part of me is a bit jaded and tells me that he may be saying whatever he can so he has a place to go since he'd be totally ostracized by his species due to his mate and their child. believe me, i WANT Klyden to be a good person, but his track record demonstrates that he has a long way to go beyond some tearful words. at the bachelor party at the season finale makes me think that Klyden is maybe trying TOO hard, which as someone who lived with an abusive parent trying to 'be better' is throwing up serious red flags for me. 'See how much i've changed? you'll be so impressed that when i start to backslide, you won't accept it.'
@@achinthmurali5207 Asking for forgiveness is not the same as apologising, depending on the circumstance it can put the onus for solving the hurt on the transgressed rather than the transgressor. Simply apologise and acknowledge the wrong done, why it was done, apologise and commit to becoming better. Forgiveness is the sole right of the person wronged.
@@thomasparkin259 forgiveness doesn’t have to be given yes, but ASKING for forgiveness is by every metric apologizing and taking responsibility because one can only ask for forgiveness if they acknowledge they have done something wrong.
In my opinion they went too far with their whole sexist crap. Tradition my ass. They developed corrective procedures in case a female was born! I bet they’re only a single gender species because they developed tech to do that.
Some people are strong in their beliefs but there is somethings that are too far for some. He isn’t a bad dad just misguided by dogma. If he did watch Rudolph and maybe Dumbo the original animated version and possibly the Secret Garden maybe he would finally see things Boris sees.
Klyden lived the life Topa would have lived. Klyden was born female too so I can’t help but think Klyden knew the life Moclus would have inflicted on his daughter. But when Moclus tried to take away his child, that was to much. Klyden now thinks of a life outside of the rigid dogma of Moclus, not for himself. He lived within the rigid rules of his people. But for his daughter who showed him that living outside of the rules Moclus imposes… isn’t as bad a thing as he was taught when someone from Moclus, probably a nasty piece of work, told Klyden he was born a female.
I'm glad that Klyden's love for his child is far greater than his fear and stigma. And I'm glad that the Commander is the closest thing that Topa has to a mother.
Klyden saw what the hatred of his people, the hatred he had shared, did to someone he loved. It's his first step to becoming a better man and while he has a long way to go, hopefully he can become that the father that Topa deserves.
I love how klyden doesn't truly ask her for forgiveness. He knows right now he doesn't have that right. He knows that the most important thing right now is for toopa to know that she is loved by both of her parents and that he regrets everything he has done. It's clear he is forgiving later but right now she just needs to know he loves her.
I actually REALLY loved the fact that the first questions he asks are about how Topa is feeling and if they are hurt. That shows immediately where his heart is at. 😢
