The Pension Fund That Bought Trains 

This is a good/smart comment, that was a typo on the length and I did flip the order of Feds and Quebec. I'll be showing these graphics again at some point and will set things straight. I'm not making this to explain the entire agreement, there will be omissions which will always annoy those with lots of knowledge on a project. I don't plan to talk about the 72 cents getting adjusted every year, the structure of payouts for the various financiers, the right of first refusal and 50 year "Market rate sell back to govt". I think it's better to point out to people, that in the end this comes down to the government and what we demand from them. If we elect a government that lets the CDPQ overcharge us, ignores the right of first refusal and sells our infrastructure to China, that'll be on us. The Government can sell a ski resort, or Hydro Quebec, or not buy the REM when it comes up for sale. But I think our descendants will love the REM and be good custodians. There are many old subway lines in the world today that were originally private and they just seem to generally end up in public hands over time.

I actually could see them building towards high speed rail

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-vKAl6DOcASc.html CDPQ have covered 100% of the increases to date

The thematic link between this phrasing and the experience of the past 2 years

@@TD-gc5tq hehehe

We'll see soon enough just how successful the REM is. My bet is that a lot of peoples are watching carefully and determining what their options are. The success of failure of the REM will have a huge impact on the future of transit in Canada. Given that Montreal already has a rather large share of public transit users, I'm betting on instant success.

@@jonathanlanglois2742 The big test is going to be winter. We know elevated rail systems can function in winter; the Chicago L has managed to deal with for over a hundred years. But the system has to be able to function in our horrid winters of -30C for several days and then oh god no here's 20cm of blizzard bukkake in one day. I fully expect teething problems even though they are testing the system for winter conditions. I have a personal interest in this because where I work is right across the 40 from Fairview. I would actually take the 485 most mornings because it is easier to reach from NDG via Lionel-Groulx. But taking the REM home as an option instead of the 470 (*shudders*) would be great.

Thus is the BSuxM

Yeah I noticed, I’ve uploaded English subs so hopefully Montrealers can follow along. Once I’ve finished the series I’ll try to figure out if a full length French version is something I can pull off without doing more harm than good.

Something I omitted from a video, it was called Reseau Electrique Metropolitain initially then they backronymed it to Reseau Express Metropolitain later. I'm guessing they were trying to get Hydro Quebec's buy in.

Didn't know about the Electrique part! I just assumed it was a blatant copy of Paris' RER.

@@PaigeMTL Hydro Québec does loom large in Québec, but that's not the main reason for "électrique" in the REM Acronym. Electrifying has been a trend in Québec for a very long while. Almost all of our heating needs are met with electricity. New Oil heating systems are prohibited as of 2023. Québec accounts for almost half of the electric car sales in Canada. The network of charging station is easily one of the most extensive in North America. Diesel busses are being replaced with Electric busses, some of which are made right here by Lion. Québec is very much leading the way in North America as far as electrification goes. Both the government and the population are in tune as far as electrification goes. Even our most right-wing political parties understand that they can't go against electrification and hope to win. There's been a long standing push to electrify the EXO lines. Unfortunately, CN and CP have not been cooperative on that matter. You could say that adding electric to the acronym was a bit of a way of pointing accusing fingers toward the perceived problem.

It's a chronological story, these are the halcyon early days.

@@PaigeMTL oh ok cool. Are you set on a release schedule? When is the rest coming out?

@@PaigeMTL +10pts for using "halcyon"

Looks like the credits on this video were pretty messed up, hopefully you'll get your $1.42 next time

Yes, I definitely said that taxpayers are shielded from any risk and didn’t explain in excruciating detail exactly how they are stakeholders in the project. This project is literally a fraction of a percent of the CDPQs investments. If the CDPQ fails, a transit project in Montreal will not even be on the radar because we’ll be experiencing some sort of civilizational extinction event.

Go to the west island, wait 3 hours for a train that you have to park to ride so you can get downtown in an hour and a half, and then come back to me with your criticisms. Is it a perfect solution? No, but it's beyond necessary for a city which has been sprawling for 20 years without any public transit options for poorer people living on the outskirts. How about instead of shitting on the idea whole cloth you say something which is to some degree constructive.

@@GiordanoGaudio The Deux-Montagnes line had an all day frequency of 1 hour, and the Vaudreuil-Hudson line was meant to be upgraded to an electrified train with trains every 15 minutes. Read my comment before whining. I've already mapped out a network for greater montreal that is a lot better than the REM and REM east.

The words "all day" are doing some heavy lifting there. Also once an hour is still really crappy frequency, and meant to electrify is a lot different then did electrify. Of course I'm sure you in all your wisdom thought everything the Civil engineers working for the Caisse didn't. My bad for not realizing that. In the end, this project will help mostly lower income people that were being undeserved by the current network and thats a win In my book.

@@GiordanoGaudio The REM is actually serving some of the highest income communities in Greater Montreal, communities with multiple cars per household, while conveniently making transportation worse for people in transit deserts like Montreal-Nord with hundreds of thousands of captive riders by cutting off the mascouche train line from downtown.

@@GiordanoGaudio The plans that have been studied and evaluated for the expansion of transit in montreal over the last 50 years have been axed in favour of the rushed REM project, all in the name of profit. Our city is being sold down the river, but I've come to expect this of Quebec, so I cant say im surprised that when funding suddenly becomes unblocked for a massive project, something is fishy.

There are private transit agencies which are successful. CDPQ might actually have the right stuff to make it happen. They do have a fair bit invested into real estate. That's a huge part of what makes private transit successful. They develop the land that they own next to the stations and often build direct connection from the station to the development. CDPQ ended up selling / trading their ownership stake into the Fairview Mall because the optics looked bad, but ideally, if we can get over those sensibilities, CDPQ could have a model that they could repeat for future lines. They do own several major buildings right in the heart of downtown including the Eaton Center, the Fairmont Reine Elizabeth, the 1000 De la Gauchetière, Place Montréal Trust, Place Ville-Marie, all of which will be served by the REM. They are quite well placed to capture part of the value gained from building the REM.

I mean, the actual technology is nothing especially new. It's an automated light metro using bog-standard overhead catenary and high floor LRT vehicles on elevated concrete viaducts. It's basically a Skytrain without the gadgetbahhny linear induction motors of the Vancouver system. CDPQ Infra is benefiting from decades of transit-system development that make the infrastructure use what amounts to off-the-shelf technology.

@@andrewweitzman4006 It isn't as new as you make it sound. London has had an automated metro line since the late 60s early 70s. Building trains on viaducts is something that we've been doing for more then a century and a half. Capturing real-estate value / taxing new construction in order to finance public transit is something that has been done for decades all over the world. It isn't that it is new, but rather, that North America is finally starting to catch up, but without any of the refinement that you would find in other truly modern systems. They couldn't even be bothered to put the water drainage pipe inside of the concrete cast for the piles. The REM was rushed, but it does need to be said that Montreal has not built any transit in decades, so most are just happy to see something being built. CDPQ is just taking existing ideas and models and tweaking them a bit.

@@jonathanlanglois2742 Uh...yes. I said that in my reply. The REM is very much a standard elevated transit project using catenary power delivery. I believe the automated metro you're referring to is the DLR?

@@andrewweitzman4006 The Victoria line came before that. The DLR is more recent.

Interesting comment, what do you think needs to be changed in law 137? Do you think that there should be no penalty for altering the conditions on an underway transit project that they signed? I don't. That is totally reasonable to keep a change in government from pulling the rug from under them, which happens all the time. Do you think that the Caisse would fare well extracting large amounts of money from their own government or citizens? Of course not. They just want to make the government cover the costs for whatever they change after the fact, in reality, they just don't want to have the terms changed on them mid-project. How much do you think the government should pay for the equivalent of the Vancouver Skytrain ridership? $310 million is totally reasonable given that it includes construction, around $600 million in overruns and the very real risk of low ridership. They're hoping to make 8%, so an 8% premium for a transit system that actually exists? Sounds good. We all have our preferences. But whatever we prefer, it doesn't exist and won't in our lifetime. The government never gives the individual exactly what they want, in fact we're lucky if it even gets remotely close. But, given both the climate and housing crisis, what is the maximum number of years in delay that would be acceptable to you before taking a project with some downsides? Mine was ten, and that is now up. I've watched a decade of nerds and NIMBYS bickering about trams, trolleys and transfers and it's failed. It's failed the city, it's failed the planet. Why would I kick it back to the agencies to spend 5 years coming up with a plan for something that could get built in 10 years, that then usually gets rejected anyway? Rejected because, maybe you like it, but a whole other group of people are annoyed for their reasons? The whole REM is being built in the time it's taking the STM to put in one bus rapid transit line. That's why people like the REM, it's actually happening, we'll actually be able to use it soon, and it's all at a fair price.

​@@PaigeMTL Law 137 was specifically passed to get REM-1. It’s Loi 38 and the 2018 Commercial Agreement that are the real problems. I would like to stop having the Caisse build infrastructure for us because they want P3s, and I do not think public transit is a moneymaker.. If we cannot have that, I would change the length of the contract from 99 years to 30 years. I would make them do a Climate Test. I would insist on public consultations where they consider several different technologies before they decide on one, and make them do a business case for everything. How much is this project going to help with permanent jobs? What kind of economic activity do they foresee? How will people be better off? Will the public expenditure be worth it? $310 million annually is $4 billion in ten years. In 99 years we will have given them $40 billion. Vancouverites are paying 7 times less for the Canada Line. See Réjean Benoit’s nationalisonslerem.com Monorail ain’t going to happen, but trams and tram-trains could be installed quickly. Delay is normal. After participating in CDPQi public consultations I’ll take ARTM powwows any day. Public consultation and education are needed to prep the public, but there will always be people who are not convinced. Better to try to reach consensus than to just say “Take it or leave it,” which is what the Caisse has done. Speed of delivery seems to be really important for you. I think you are ignoring a lot of important stuff. Maybe REM-1 will work. They took a calculated risk. West Islanders don’t like the elevated structure, and it has been really hard on the DM people. CDPQInfra never knew whether ridership will be strong on the Ste Anne de Bellevue spur and now with more people working from home it is even more risky. The Vaudreuil-Hudson line will still bring people back and forth in the southern part of West Island, and they have a captured audience with DM. Putting rapid transit on the South Shore is a new thing for a relatively new suburb so might work. REM-2 is another matter. They have had time to think. It’s clear that the Mercier-est/MHM people don’t want it. I hope Legault does not force it on them, though Madame Rouleau will be very disappointed if there is nothing. I don’t know for sure, but if Montréal-Nord got something like the Pink Line, they might be very pleased. As for Rivière de Prairies? Left out entirely.