The Phantom Thieves VS Team Bucciarati (Persona Vs Jojo) 

the argument that purple haze wins because the PTs don’t know poison exists is incredibly funny

Ryuji going Fuck the Cops and Abbacchio calling him a brat while beating the shit out of him is not even a stretch, its in character Narancia and Futaba playing DDR oblivious to the fight the rest of both gangs are in is an interesting mental image

Ann wouldn't die because Morgana would 100% pull a sacrificial save on her in a deathmatch scenario. It's on the same level of narratively guaranteed as Bucciarati becoming a zombie to complete the mission.

In future we need to see whether or not Earring Boy's spinkick could overcome the Thunder Cross Split Attack

I'm not sure I agree with the idea that the Gangstars would ruthlessly kill. One of Giorno's key skills is his ability to read a person's intentions- Hence why he chooses to flee from Koichi rather than try to kill him and why he chooses to spare Bucciarati. With the Phantom Thieves being a bunch of teenagers whose hearts are in the right place (except Akechi), Giorno would probably tell the gang to avoid killing them. And really... Only Abbacchio would ignore this advice, and he's the least likely to kill someone in the first place due to his stand just being less suited to battle. The rest of them would probably believe Giorno, to varying extents. Giorno may be an unhinged killer when he believes his opponent to be someone that has evil intentions, but he has a very soft heart for those who he can tell has good intentions. And as for the rest of the gang... They could have easily held Trish hostage to lure out the boss, but chose to deliver her to him. Even with his plan to kill and overthrow Diavolo, Bucciarati did legitimately want to protect Trish as long as he could. I just don't see them going for the kill in this scenario.

One thing about Haru that wasnt mentioned is that if she gets her gun skills negated by Sex Pistols then she can go full support with Tetrakarn and Heat Riser and thats kind of a lot

"severe nuclear damage is a threat" - Meti 2022

Still have no idea how akechi was affected by guns in his boss fight when he knows damn well those guns are fake.

Bruno confirms that during the Oasis fight the only reason he can fight underground so well is because he doesn’t need to breathe. He can only pull that off if he’s in Zombie Mode

I really want to see fan art of Futaba and Narancia playing Sonic Adventure

Also a big thing is that the persona are so big in comparison, like some of them could pick up and chuck a stand, persona are like double the height of the user a lot of the times.

I love VS battle talks like these, you guys are super entertaining

I’m looking forward to the Phantom Thieves vs. Diavolo and Bruno’s gang vs. Shido. I’d imagine Diavolo’s split personality would render the usual method of stealing his heart useless, because I can’t imagine Doppio having a Palace.

8:20 Mista’s gun doing nothing because the thieves think it’s fake is freaking hilarious

I would think that if Mista got ahold of one of the PT guns, he wouldn't be able to use it because the PT know their airsoft and Mista is a gun expert and wouldn't be able to cognitively imagine a fake gun shooting real bullets

Started watching Jojo for the first time a few days ago, currently on Part 2. Will watch these videos when I'm done

I love these discussions not because I care who wins but because we get to talk about how random things like the color of your gun will effect combat

I think you forgot one crucial element in this fight, the phantom thieves can't see stands, unless you consider the personas as stands but if you don't then the gang just confuse the shit out of the phantom thieves with strikes you can't see coming with the stand user just standing just out of reach of melee weapons

I dunno, I feel like the thieves would pop a cap into the gang as soon as they like kill kill members, they could say its self defense in court, especially with Sae as their lawyer.

My guys, how could you NOT factor in Mona and Fox opening with both the mass buff and debuff of accuracy? It's such an OP tactic to completely dominate the concept of landing and dodging hits.

Realistically, the phantom thieves and Brunos group would team up on The boss, one group going into the palace and the others facing him in the real world.

The Phantom Thieves try to use the talk command on Fugo, he gets pissed and insta-kills the party.

"Mista pops a cap in Ann" Morgana: (Proceeds to turn Super Saiyan Cat 5)

The fact that Akechi hard counters the entirety of Passione is funny as fuck

Akechi purposely gets Ryuji killed to push the phantom thieves to killing intent

Even if the First crew (won't spoil who the victor is for those who are reading the comments prior to finishing) wins, I did think of some other win cons or things that can counter the other gang 31:34 I would argue Joker with his 3rd eye could could figure out where they are only because joker with it is able to see where people have gone. Alongside in strikers, he is able to see the outline of shadows through walls, but I myself would find that a bit flimsy, He might be able to pinpoint who is more of a dangerous target then others though. 32:42 In the p4 manga, Rise is fighting Yu and Yosuke and the 2 can't get a hit on Rise, until they use sukukaja, which makes Yu and Yosuke so fast that Rise can't perceive what happened, and once she did (direct quote from teddie) "It was already too late" I would argue prior to the sukukaja they already had faster than light reaction times like what you guys say, but with sukukaja, it makes them Yu and Yosuke move faster than the opponent's reaction time (speed of light in this case). 43:34 I couldn't find anything for the opposite affect for sukukaja, as in I don't know if it would make you perceive things that much slower. But that is a thing On overall point I want to mention is the concept of will power: If we were to use GER which honestly, I don't know how the fuck to even bring him up, In Persona 2q: Enlil erases all the persona users out of existence and out of sheer will power, FemC, Makoto, Yu, and Joker just come back. So I wouldn't say this would allow Joker to win, but it may confuse GER if he is able to put him in a loop or erase Joker and he just comes back.

so I will say, on the topic of "are the Thieves willing to kill if any of them die first", they *were* willing to risk Kamoshida dying once the whole Shiho event happened, so while they never resort to it first, they *are* willing to kill someone if they think lives are at risk

You have no idea how long I’ve been waiting for this-

Are the phantom theives ultimate weapons, like the ones that are made from the electric chairs in the velvet room real weapons? Because those are made from literally itemizing gods in a room that has all sorts of magical properties. So would the theives be able to role up with these weapons and equipment that is legitimately crafted from gods and gain an advantage or are all of them fake like what they buy from iwai?

I like how this is basically asking how Persona effects would effect Jojo characters

I haven't clicked on a video so fast in my whole life

So I'm currently getting ready to go to work and don't have time to watch the whole video but I do want to say that I believe Sticky Fingers is one of the most powerful stands in Jojo. Not because of it's ability, but because of how Bruno uses it. I want to say Bruno gives his gang the edge because of his creativity

If we put this in terms of "This fight in character V out of character" it's 100% different. Out of character? The PTs just nuke the fuck out of the gang and that's GG, ryuji probably still dies because purple haze and for this (as said in video) we're saying healing magic doesn't restore lost limbs so front line people still get disfigured massively at least. In character half the PTs die before nuking the Gang, but even then I would say who ever nukes last (or if multiple people nuke giorno at the same time, which would result in many insta deaths which depending on who dies could mean a win for the gang.) will also die from Giorno damage reflection or Bucciarati zipper camping. Granted it's sort of imbalanced in general as a fight, we're giving the phantom thieves everything short of *BIG GUN* while we're also denying the thing that makes the fight invalid (Which is more so saying items are bullshit than saying anything about the video itself). SO, TL;DR: phantom thieves win with loses. Unless we give the gang the ""No" button", in which case easy W for the gang. *Now if we do a "No items, equips, or heals" version of the fight things get funky really damn fast.*

I guess playing SMT more recently than Persona, I was just assuming that poison was in the game and that completely shocked me when I realized they didn’t have it, only like burn.

Phantom Thieves: *does a small flip* wins Meti gasing the Part 5 Gang: *Mental Gymnastics* um, actually 👨‍🏫

Mista vs the “Holy shit that’s a real gun” amp

I think a cool idea for another vs debate would be S.E.E.S VS The Piller Men from part 2. Not only would it be a more unique discussion, it'd also be interesting to see persona users face someone from Jojo's who isn't a stand user.

The rolling stones fate scene leading up to this fight would be hilarious

If feel like this is kinda huge tho. If Futaba makes fun of Narancia gaming skills then he just starts seeing red his just gonna bomb everything. And can Giorno make shadows out of non living things if so the theives are screwed. Because then Giorno is just wild card

I imagine Ann does a Blazing Hell, and then they just don’t see the enemy, but then you see Bruno sticking his head out of a wall and licking his lips before zipping away. “They’re in the walls…. THEYRE IN THE GOD DAMN WALLS!”

I just realized, couldn’t Giorno, Bruno or Mista just over analyzing the hell out of their guns, realizing they are toys.

Any member of the Phantom Thieves stomps out there entire verse with ease, especially Joker, considering they’re all Outerversal.

If we go Powerscaling wise Phantom Theives would win

Diavolo walks in and gets capped immediately, which makes this canon.

Okay, but what about persona 5's cast against Diavolo? Or the JoJo part 5 cast against Shido/Yaldaboath/Maruki?

I've been at max level upon finishing Persona 5, and I refuse to believe that the gang could survive a maxed Mafreidyne, let alone all the other team sweeping spells

I don’t think that if Mista used any of the Phantom Thieves guns it would do damage to them. Just because Mista thinks it’s real, doesn’t mean that they’ll get hurt because they themselves know that it’s not real

Makes me wonder what you guys would do with Diavolo vs Maruki. A two parter with King Crimson vs Azathoth then a what if discussion of KCR vs Adam Kadmon? Would be interesting to see what you'll do with the P1-2ep teams.

14:10 yeah you guys are right if that's how healing spells worked Ryuji's link just straight up wouldn't have happened

im fairly certain that the reason guns work in the metaverse is because the shadows think they are real guns because of how realistic they are, so that means that if mista DID pull out a purple gun, the pt wouldnt believe its real, hence no damage, however, the phantom theives KNOW they have fake guns, but the gang doesnt, so if mista WERE to steal one of their guns, it would have no affect on them, because they know it isnt real

I'm not even finished and this is already one of the best videos that I have ever seen.

Phantom Thieves vs Bruno's group: Lasts all of 5 minutes at most before they team up.

My big problem with Ger (More or so its fanbase I guess) is that its an ability that gets used once against an individual who isnt really that strong (Compared to a lot of characters Ger can supposedly beat), never gets shown fighting against any other high level reality warpers (Excluding eyes of heaven where it looses to above heaven Dio) and also is pretty vaugue in how the ability supposedly works in which it definently has turn back to 0 but then people act like Ger could for instance put Goku in a deathloop even though we see that he actually supposedly had to kill Diavolo physically by beating him up instead of it being like a "Your in a deathloop now lol" which feats wise Ger could not put a dent in Goku or in this scenario the phantom thieves (Especially if Joker has null physical). So basically my point is that even if turn to 0 is an almighty ability that works against nigh every fictional character then theres just no proof towards Giorno being able to do anything more than stalemate.

Now you forgot the BIGGEST game changer for the Part 5 gang... Coco Jumbo

Question I added to end of my other very long comment, what happens to the thieves if Doppio and Diovolo switch places while they are in his palace? It was shown with Shido that he can take medicine to make himself pass out/ bring himself close to death to temporarily cause his palace to crumble in an attempt to kill the thieves so would something similar happen is diovolo and doppio switched places with them inside? Or would it just morph to reflect the other personality

in my own personal opinion there's really two ways you could pit an actual fight between two characters (or teams in this case) first is just Death Battle rules, "analyze their weapons, armor, and skills" and put them in a no-holds fight second is an in-character fight with only the "why are they fighting?" being hand-waved, which imo is more interesting to use a Death Battle as an example, were the Anakin v Kakashi fight to not have been no-holds and instead been in-character, I'm positive Anakin would have been limited by the Jedi Code even the post-battle analysis brings up how the Code limits what Jedi can do *because* of the sheer overwhelming power The Force can give people

Mishima vs Speedwagon, who’s the better hype man?

Lmao a soul hackers 2 ad right after the video just happened, how fitting

these are such dumb conversations about two great series with dumb logic. god I love the mind shattering questions that get asked like 'does mista's gun hurt less because it's purple'

With buno moving in the walls when he attacks you "you never see it cominggggg!"

35:03 Well Mitsuru, a normal human, could tank an explosion that was 21 tons of force. That equals 42000. And if we assume every persona user is at least that durable, they ain’t got crap on them. Also, Akechi could outrun bullets

15:23 If Bruno or Fugo gets frozen, they’re doomed. Especially if Joker was buffed and used hassou tobi

Wait a minute during the requiem silver chariot fight the boss was split into two different souls so does that mean there be two treasures in his palace Meaning they could just easily steal the wrong one and he’s perfectly fine and will just try to kill joker continuously

6:09 The thing is, Akechi SHOT shadow Okumura. So, dragging his corpse into the Metaverse wouldn’t work tbh.

I have to also ask as an opinion can't mona use his wind skills and blow purple haze poison back at them😅

Using DnD rules on death, death occurs when a target is at 0HP _and_ then is hit with damage (about half HP in the negative). That should work here too.

I hope we get another one of these videos without waiting for like 2 Years, these are very enjoyable

Would Bucciarati take damage from healing spells like Final Fantasy?

41:00 super random, but this picture reminded me of how pissed I am that we still don’t have a full piece of the theif akechi art somehow

When the PT guys get inflicted with Purple Haze Virus, I doubt applying Dia would do anything good. Might as well watch that member die and hope some recarm spell can fix that...

I don’t know why but I love imagining joker using morning star on the gang

hmmm, outerversal vs maybe city level at most, its a hard call

Funny thought, fugo just casually walks up and punches one of the thieves with purple haze, from the thieves’ perspective, fugo just stares at them and they start fucking melting

you forgot about one of Gold Experience's most powerful abilities (of course later forgotten by araki), which is being able to create lifeforms which are able to reflect and amplify the damage taken

I feel like you downplayed the Passione Gang hard. You guys admit multiple times throughout the video that you forgot about entire members of the gang and things they can do, and while it's true the PT (Phantom Thieves) have a statistical advantage and would for sure win in a simple turn by turn battle, fights realistically don't play out like that. -Narancia vs Futaba wouldn't exclude each other from the fight. Futaba is pure support, she has no direct defense. Narancia would put her on a time limit before outright eliminating her unless the thieves make a continuous effort to protect her. Aerosmith would force a 2v1 at minimum, and ironically Futaba would just end up being a nuisance in this fight. The most she could do is give a bit of information or a buff or two before Bruno / Giorno order Narancia to take out the flying unit (and no, Necronomicon hiding Futaba's breathing was never stated anywhere). -Abbacchio's Moody Blues is surprisingly powerful in group fights. With enough confusion, he could copy one of the PT after they do a particularly powerful attack (Ann using Blazing Hell or Ryuji swinging his club) and use it against an unsuspecting thief (especially since Narancia would remove their navigator). Their only hope of sniffing out Impostor Moody Blues at that point is Morgana's sense of smell or one of them being extremely smart and knowing everyone's location, and in the middle of a hectic 8v7 where people could very well be splitting up and there'd be tons of chaos, I can easily see Abbacchio being a star player making a big play. I do think he's the most likely of the Passione Gang to die though. -Assigning a Sex Pistol to everyone for defense is the worst use of Mista's Stand for a couple reasons. 1. None of the thieves would ever suspect Sex Pistols' ability, meaning Mista is guaranteed a free kill unless he's an idiot and exposes his ability right away (he obviously wouldn't, he's pretty darn smart) 2. The Passione Gang are gang members, meaning they've been exposed to guns for a while. By that logic, I think it's reasonable to say that the gang (or at the very least Mista, Bruno, and maybe Giorno) can tell the difference between a fake and real gun. At that point, the thieves' guns would be basically worthless, and even if Mista was defending everyone at first, he'd then go on the offensive and bodies would start dropping. 3. Trish would be much better suited as a defender. She could grab the floor beneath her, turn it malleable, and pull up a rubber wall to stop any projectile the thieves would throw out. Heck, she could REFLECT bullets and grenades by bouncing them back with her rubber wall, and completely negate any threat that thunder magic would have posed (not to mention totally neuter anyone's weapon, which leaves that thief with limited SP to fight back). Mista would be a better defense (since sex pistols have more range and are automatic), but his offensive potential is easily the more desirable of the two. -Oh yeah, Trish. Well, I think I made a good enough case for her already. She repels everyone's physical projectiles, turns their weapons into useless mush (if she gets close enough) and negates all thunder magic and paralysis by extension, on top of being a capable and intelligent fighter in her own right. If Ryuji, Yusuke, or Joker charged her at any point in the fight, she'd completely cripple them by grabbing a rubber piece of enviornment, crushing the thief in it, then hardening it, which might as well be a free kill unless half of the PT realize what happened and start protecting them. Only counter I see here being Yusuke blitzing her with buffed speed and cutting off her hands, which isn't even the end for her thanks to Giorno. -Purple Haze is a much harder win condition than Fither and his gang thought. Imagine this: Fugo pops open one of his virus capsules, then Giorno makes an animal that blows wind (a vulture flapping its wings) and manipulates the animal into blowing the virus into the PT. The virus isn't even magic, so Makarakarn wouldn't protect them from it. Yes, Morgana or Makoto could heal it, but as mentioned in the video, their bodies would still melt in the meantime, potentially crippling them if they lose a leg or both arms, and everyone's attention would go right to the virus, giving the Passione Gang a chance to attack, set up, or reposition. Do I even need to mention that Fugo and Giorno can do this multiple times? And that unlike the gang, the thieves won't gain an immunity to it? -Giorno can do basically anything, meaning he has an answer for anything thrown at him. Giorno can heal, support, disable, defend, help with mobility, create walls, and sic animals that will damage / kill the thieves if they attack them, which they either will if they realize animals are part of his power, or they'd hit his animals ACCIDENTALLY with AOE (a big downside of AOE nobody brings up in the video). The one big threat fither and his gang claimed Passione had was status effects, and lets be real, Giorno could figure out a solution to any status the thieves throw at them (even freeze and marin karin. I believe Giorno never melted himself and Mista against Ice Guy was because he was doing other things, which is his biggest weakness). I did see a comment of someone explaining that Giorno would make the call to not kill the PT, since he's a great judge of character and can tell if someone is evil or not, which doesn't change much aside from Fugo sitting out until they decide to start killing. The Passione Gang have plenty of ways to disable and not kill. -Bruno was covered very well in the video. He'd be a deadly ambush fighter that would disable / kill anyone he desires at any moment. Again with Futaba busy, only Morgana could MAYBE sniff him out, but combined with Impostor Moody Blues and the giant 8v7 chaos, it would be too much for Morgana to always keep track of and he'd at most turn it from an ambush into a fight. -A very big encompassing factor that was ignored about the Passione Gang is that their entire thing is being extremely smart and beating their enemies by outsmarting them, meanwhile the PT tend to just rush in and hurl big damage numbers and that's usually enough because shadows aren't particularly smart. This fight would drag the thieves out of their element hard while it would just be another day in the office for the Gang, being faced with a terrifyingly powerful opponent who trashes them at first, but through quick-thinking and clever wits they mount a counteroffensive and claim victory when it seems like they shouldn't have. 1. Their stat buffs and healers wouldn't matter because most of the Gang have insta kill (Zippers, Virus, Giorno spawning a bug in their heads, Mista popping a cap in their skulls). 2. Their status effects wouldn't do much because the Gang have Giorno and he is OP. 3. The Passione Gang would have the intellect to realize what they should be doing to counter the thieves, then after figuring out most of their abilities and tools, begin fighting back and shutting them down with the knowledge they collected about the thieves. Wow I was not expecting this to be so long.

I'm 9 months late but I see people still thinking that the airsoft guns would be an issue, they're not. Mista can disarm the gang, and once he figures out the kids are using airsoft guns he'd relay the info to the gang. The guns would only be useful until the trained gun man figures out they're fake. At which point the only guns on the battlefield would be the ones in Milady and Mistas.

Forget is even more of a win condition for the thieves because if someone truly threatening forgets how to use their stand, that’s bad news

Now we need to see Diavolo vs. either Black mask Akechi or Maruki

This might be a stretch, but in persona 3 and 4, when a teammate drops to 0 hp, it shows a skull and crossbones, implying that they actually died, so the phantom thieves might be able to recover from death

Couldn’t they trap someone inside the turtle

7:50 The gun doesnt work because of the user, but because of the target believing it works. So there wouldnt he a difference between a real and fake gun unless they could somehow tell it was fake

I'd like to see the Stardust Crusaders climbing Tartarus or SEES travelling across Egypt to get to DIO.

How about we put Phantom Thieves against Diavolo next time? Let's see them change the heart of someone so unredeemable.

The first few minutes makes me imagine mista going for a gunfight and then just getting obliterated by a grenade launcher

Hey doods could I ask you to do a discussion versus match that you do, with The Phantom Thieves vs The dual protagonists from Astral Chain. Only because they are both "not" Jojo game, plus they even had a cross over that changed Makoto's bike to match the police bike from Astral Chain. For Astral Chain's corner you can have the other two officers, the lady who has thighs as thicc as Jetstream Sam and generic anime white dood with glasses and the protag foster dad. Not sure power wise but I think it could be a fun fight

This entire argument ends with the mention of three words:Gold Experience Requiem

I swear there’s gotta be some kind of erasure going on here with poison. I remember Ann being able to learn Poisma, and I tried using it myself but it failed and missed like 90% of the time so I got rid of it the first chance I got. I’ve tried to look it up, both the status itself in P5 and in Ann’s move set, but I can’t find anything about it.

diarahan cannot bring someone back from death without killing the performer, as per persona 3. but if the phantom thief "stores" their healing power before giving it up, that could bring them back. i don't think any of the phantom thieves is as powerful a healer as chidori though. maybe morgana could do it but he would disappear temporarily and forever be stuck in cat form?

Spoilers for the results of the battle I'm sad that Bucciarati's Team lost, but I think it might have been worth it for that schlock of the Phantom Thieves and Narancia trying to steal Diavolo's heart

I'd love to hear a theorycraft for the Persona 2 gang vs the Pillar Men, and the Battle Tendency squad vs Nyarlathotep. Joseph and Nyarlathotep are both powered by bullshitting their way out of everything.

40:05 lol she has less screentime than Haru

Wait... YOU GUYS FORGOT ABOUT POLNAREFF! I know he was never part of the Bruno group but he was their ally for a little bit! That counts right?

How about Dio Brando vs Demi-fiend? That could be interesting to discuss...

If only Strikers was included so we coukd start attributing Vergil feats to Yusuke

"A grenade is God's separator" Truer words were never spoken.

Idea: Demi Fiend (as seen in SMTV) vs every Part 3 Antagonist

Persona lucifer literally throw star at your opponent. Some persona creature or gods are universal.

We all know Joker wins

I've been waiting for a video like this, what a great day it has been

Would GER even work when persona users have resistance against reality manipulation ?