The Plot Against America | Althist Lore 

Wait, if the U.S. never placed an embargo on Japan, why did they attack Pearl Harbor?

Ending #1 Seemed to be the most realistic. It's unlikely that Germany would've won ww2 at all. However I don't think not sending lend lease would effect early-war Russia at all. Russia would still win Moscow, Stalingrad,, and Kursk, but the rapid counter offensives following the battle of Kursk would've been harder due to the lack of lend-lease.

@@Vaushgg mabye I think the soviets could win without lend leas although only if the communist changed policies drastically.

@@longhairdontcare122 If they switched their policies to produce more trucks rather than tank, then that could work. It would just be a harder struggle for them.

i wont lie i honestly thought u was gonna go further back and bring lindbergh back instead of him just disappearing but i see it really just being the third option or pearl harbor never happening with america supporting germany and japan i still think this video is amazing like the rest but thats where i where i personally of started making changes or at the very least have lindbergh actually assassinated if u were to go with the vice president

Real

I’ve always had similar issues with the man in the high castle book, since it stopped attempting to properly alternate history and instead “wanted” to apparently be more a vehicle for philosophy on “real” vs “false” reality and importance of art/artistry in what was at the time it was written, the present day. Guess it makes a bit of sense considering PKD suffered from apparent schizophrenia and drug abuse at times, and heavily consulted the I-Ching of all things when writing it.

@@youthoughtaboutit6946 All the famous alternate histories just aren't written by historians it seems :/

@@youthoughtaboutit6946 Quite true. The idea of the Axis winning the war was always at best secondary, maybe tertiary, to the examination of the concept of reality in the work. Dick could probably have just as easily set up his novel with the same framework as BRING THE JUBILEE or THE DIFFERENCE ENGINE and given us pretty much the same book.

Japan needed a reason to attack pearl harbor, in our OTL the reason they attacked was because we put an oil embargo on them after they conquered French Indochina. If we didn't put an oil embargo on Japan, they would not have bombed Pearl Harbor and they would have conquered Asia and the island territories of the UK and France in the Pacific Ocean.

Again, the seemingly abrupt and unexplained attack on Pearl Harbor is a plot point in the novel. I agree, it's unexplained and doesn't make sense in the context of the rest of the book, but Philip Roth was not a historian nor did he really have experience writing historical fiction, so he chose a quick way out to end the novel.

@@DeanMonsieur Sadly, it is true, luckily I as a fan fiction writer have the desire to end my fan fictions properly.

Triparte pact

Yeah the author of the original novel was definitely not the best at writing 😅😂

Could have kept the oil Embargo with America being super defensive of it's pacific holdings. That would have made some sense.

no

That could start a political crisis that would be so bad that it would make Watergate look like a silly playground incident.

Good question! Because I wanted to explore a wacky scenario wherein this darker United States is forced to fight Germany. It gives me more room to come up with a unique scenario rather than regurgitate the typical "bad guys win" narrative that you find in The Man in the High Castle and other works of althist about a fascist or fascistic America.

Impossible 😊

@@salprocopio7319 gasp

Then Manchuria would become the Manchukuo of the Eastern Bloc.

I agree completely and disliked the ending. It was just waved away as Japanese Imperialism. I assume Philip Roth probably took the fact that Japan left the League of Nations and ignored some minor treaties with the US as “precedent” as to why the aforementioned treaty passed by Lindbergh would be ignored, but its just lazy writing in my opinion.

Because Philip Roth wanted a cop-out ending to his book :(

That’s the first thing I thought about. Guess the guy had no clue what he was talking about?

@@Boretheoryyeah he was definitely a novelist not a historian

Nothing much in history would change. It would just be a part of Canada and Canada would be slightly wealthier. Maybe the americans would jizz in their pants at the idea of annexing Canada a little less.

Or better yet a Canadian providence.

Thanks, Obama

In the works. It's turned out to be a bit longer than anticipated! 😅

Mayhaps…

Dope video btw

I think he’s already started working on that exact idea

I'm interested, but Kaiserreich content is plentiful so I'll be focusing on some other projects first.

💀

@@Aboutthatbearioweya in TNO Japan somehow won against USA,so nah

@@FuntimeVictimerFNAFBR half like it in Europe atleast

@@Aboutthatbearioweya then you should see twr since it's a mod where Axis won in Europe but Lost in Asia

In fact, in the miniseries we learn that neither side is winning in 1942 - like in our timeline.

the lend lease in 1941 and 42 was mostly trucks and trains from what i heard to transport soviet factories, without that the soviets would have no industry, as most of their industry would be under enemy control, the soviets would be unable to do anything when hey have no guns, bullets, no food, nothing, just a whole lot of snow without it, its possible that Stalingrad will still be the last stand with the soviets throwing the last bit of their strength to hold the city, but within a few months of brutal fighting, the Germans would win. Also in the scenario where the US doesnt send lend lease to the soviets, its possible that due to anti communism, the US secretly sells trucks to the Germans, since that was their main shortage they would have throughout the war, in a scenario where the US is at war with Germany in this scenario, its most likely just a token effort and they wouldn't do much, most likely playing less of a role in operation torch and other pre D-Day offensives while they just negotiate a peace with the Germans in exchange for monetary compensation. In summary, much less committed USA to the war against Germany would lead to the Soviets crumbling and Barbarossa being more of a success. the UK realizing the US didn't care about fighting the Germans eventually signs a peace with the Germans or possibly a few year long phony war just goes on until Churchill is eventually voted out of office or kicked out of office, with the UK only losing minor colonial holdings while gaining large majority of their allies colonies while continuing to host their exiled governments and claim they're still the legitimate government Japan would be annihilated like in our timeline.

@@bossy1496 There was no land lease in 1941, the year Soviet industry was saved from falling into the hands of the Nazis by evacuating most of it beyond the Urals, because America would not be involved at all until December.

@@bossy1496 Wrong. The lend lease given to the soviets in 1941-42 wasn't all that much. It wasn't all just trucks either, as you know, but the loss of that little bit of war material wouldn't do much to change the overall outcome of the war, at least in the beginning. It will be when the soviets try to push the Germans back from Stalingrad and Kursk, when they will run into major problems due to the lack of truck to supply their rapidly moving forces.

​​​@@francescocarlini7613There was lend lease in 1941. The act was passed in March of 1941. Supplies were sent through the White Sea and Vladivostok beginning in June of 1941. There were also pre-Lend Lease supplies sent to the Soviet Union. The reason not much arrived is because the conditions were terrible, and boats were under constant threat from German submarines, without the aid of the American Navy proper, instead only isolated, deniable elements. Stalin also insisted that the majority if supplies be sent through the White Sea, a much riskier path, than Vladivostok, as it could arrive in a much more timely fashion to the front. Based on this action, Stalin seems not to have been of the opinion of total Soviet superiority over the Germans that many share on this subject. Those supplies that were sent were those the Soviets needed most desperately, such as trucks, trains, factory equipment, and materials, and would have struggled the most without. Without the challenge of navigating to Arkangalsk, the supplies given over the course of that year would have been much higher, as up to two thirds of it was unable to arrive. Supplies were also sent to the Soviet Union before Lend Lease, paid for mostly with gold and other minerals. In 1941, allied shipments which arrived in the Soviet Union totaled 360,778 tons.

Yeah they tend to be overdone and shallow

Beacause is intresting seeing other views.